Get Schooled

By Tony

August 21, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this

I am having a hard time understanding how and why this statement is being twisted into a racial issue. In the context of the discussion, the question was perfectly legitimate in trying to find answers to the difficulties that school board is trying to solve. If there is a disproportionate number of disciplinary incidents among the various subgroups in our schools, we have to ask hard questions in order to get the answers.

The attempts to impugn the superintendent serves as a diversion from the real concern. This issues related to improving student behaviors must be discussed if we are ever to find answers that will work for our students and schools. Throwing up smokescreens that destroy the real conversations will only add to the gaps and disparities.

By AlreadySheared

August 21, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this

It would be far more illuminating to break down disciplinary incidents by family type:

married mother and father, unmarried mother and father, single mother, single father

I suspect that the positive and negative correlations for these groups would be much larger than the correlation for racial categories. Of course, 1) there would be more effort involved in this than looking at a kid and checking “black”, “hispanic”, or “white”, and 2) the data would likely reveal some issues that many single mothers would really rather not consider.

By funnyBone

August 21, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

By funnyBone

August 21, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

By lyncoln

August 21, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this

Wow, people have complaints about that comment?

I’ll agree with Tony on this one. This question doesn’t make anyone a racist. Spending time crying and arguing about this one statement just removes time spent discussing the problems that need consideration.

I’m betting that this ‘racist’ comment stays in the news longer than the ‘history and science aren’t needed for adequate education’ comments from just a short while ago.

By funnyBone

August 21, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

By ohDear

August 21, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

are you serious?

this has nothing to do with the use of the “n” word.

and how it was within the context of the discussion is beyond me…. does idaho have any ‘blacks’? huh?? what does a childs ethnic background have to do with him/her being treated fairly??

why IS it that an ethnic person receives warranted discipline at a harsher degree than his white counterpart? on the street. (police brutality) in the state. (sentencing by court) and NOT surprisingly in school.

it is a social phenomena and i applaud gwinnett county for taking it on. but it starts with mr.wilbanks acknowledging that color has nothing to do with how discipline should be administered in his school system and color has nothing to do with why Idaho does not have a similar problem.

By Huh

August 21, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

His only crime is making a poorly worded statement. There’s no need for apologies or resignation, unless he wants to cater and/or escape the crazy public light. People always seem to think they have the right to not be offended.

AlreadySheared comment is funny. :) Can’t wait for the day when we start blaming all our countries ills on everyone’s relationship status. Restaurants will quit serving single people. There will be separate bathrooms for “contaminated” divorcees. Little Johnny will be banned from cub scouts because his mommy doesn’t have a mate. Young Sam starts smoking pot and screaming “I smoke because you’re alone Mommy!” Talk about passing the buck.

By sue

August 21, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

I don’t see how, in a discussion about race, a comment about race can be called “racist.”

Saying that there are not many black people in Idaho, is a statement of fact, not a racist opinion.

By Whatever

August 21, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

oh Dear - I completely agree & I’m white. Why even BRING up race??? This has NOTHING to do with the “n” word.

There are people in this country that don’t want racism to end. Some are white, some are black. The issue at hand was about discipline. I read his statement and my reaction was “he’s saying the majority of his black students are troublemakers” which is so stupid I don’t know where to begin. The insinuation was there - he didn’t have to clarify. Anyone with a high school education knew EXACTLY what he meant.

Just like our black counterparts, when a white person says something irresponsible, we jump to defend our own. Which is what most people are posting: “Don’t be so sensitive.” “He didn’t mean THAT.” “Stop playing the race card.” When a black person says something irresponsible (Jesse Jackson does ALL of the time!), blacks say “What about all those years of racism from white?” “If it’s true you shouldn’t be mad.” “You can’t say that but we can.”

Both sides of the fence are just as wrong as white socks with black sandals.

By bearcasey

August 21, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

What are the comparative discipline statistics for whites and blacks? For example, what % of white students are suspended in comparison to the % of blacks? It seems that one would need to know this before commenting intelligently on Mr. Wilbanks. Of course, one could always ignore facts. “Leaders” often do this.

By Whatever

August 21, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

oh Dear - I completely agree & I’m white. Why even BRING up race??? This has NOTHING to do with the “n” word.

There are people in this country that don’t want racism to end. Some are white, some are black. The issue at hand was about discipline. I read his statement and my reaction was “he’s saying the majority of his black students are troublemakers” which is so stupid I don’t know where to begin. The insinuation was there - he didn’t have to clarify. Anyone with a high school education knew EXACTLY what he meant.

Just like our black counterparts, when a white person says something irresponsible, we jump to defend our own. Which is what most people are posting: “Don’t be so sensitive.” “He didn’t mean THAT.” “Stop playing the race card.” When a black person says something irresponsible (Jesse Jackson does ALL of the time!), blacks say “What about all those years of racism from white?” “If it’s true you shouldn’t be mad.” “You can’t say that but we can.”

Both sides of the fence are just as wrong as socks with sandals.

By Huh

August 21, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

ohDear - what does a childs ethnic background have to do with him/her being treated fairly??

When did Wilbanks say the above? His comments are being blown up into something beyond belief. There aren’t many blacks in Idaho and Washington state, fact. It’s difficult to draw lessons from other states/countries that aren’t dealing with the same type of problems. Considering Idaho’s high number of white supremacists, I’d be more concerned if we started looking at them as the right way.

The harsher treatment received is the world you live in, ohdear. Surely you know that. The reason it’ll never get better is because everyone’s so oversensitive. It builds more walls and destroys any potential to actually resolve anything and move forward.

By Huh

August 21, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Um, wasn’t the whole discussion about discipline and race?! How can anyone ask why race was brought up?

Also, did any of those offended actually stand up and address when he said it? Or did they leave the meeting, discuss and rile themselves up, then pounce? It makes a huge difference - were they really offended or did they just drum up support to be offended? I’ve seen the latter happen way too often.

By jim d

August 21, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Tony,

As most if not all readers of this blog know, I’m not exactly a fan of Napoalvin.

Had you ever set through a few board meetings with him you would understand he is a rude little man who hasn’t the ability to pronounce graduation or kindergarten correctly.

However, this is not reason to can him. Hell, he didn’t even get a slap on the hands for falsifying violent incident reports sent to the state or for saying SPED is an albatross around the neck of Gwinnett county. So this is really small potato’s. Nothing will come of it., the man is Teflon coated.

By jim d

August 21, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

Huh

Obviously you have never attended a public meeting of this nature.

You don’t get to address anything they say. You are only allowed to observe. So obviously they would have to leave to rally against anything said in the meeting.

Feel free to drop in on the meetings.

Gwinnett County Board of Education regular monthly meeting schedule Public open forum starts at 6:30PM, formal meeting 7:00 PM

By Huh

August 21, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

jim d, Correct. I haven’t. That stinks all by itself. I wouldn’t want to go to a meeting where I’m not involved. Seems pointless, but then again, I hate meetings of all kinds. Huge time wasters.

But, I guess, my question is more along the lines of this… if he had said something so off the wall as ‘let’s just expel all the minorities pre-emptively’, then what’s stopping anyone from standing up and interrupting the meeting? A full blown hippie, riot, we’re gonna march on your butt right this second type of reaction?

By jim d

August 21, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Huh,

Armed police officers do the job, my friend.

I highly recommend to go see for yourself. Oh, and please don’t jump up screaming regardless of how rediculous it becomes. You can be arrested for disrupting a public meeting. :-)

By jim d

August 21, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

I haven’t addressed the question.

What should Wilbanks do?

IMHO, He should either enroll in some sensitivity training or retire. I am confident he will do neither.

By ohDear

August 21, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

Sue he said as a reason why Idaho doesnt have a discipline disparagy. thats NOT racist?? im sorry what is the definition of “racist” again??

HUH i apologize. i didnt realize that there is a difference in ‘children’ and that ‘children being children’ isnt a true statement. by your opinion, children in idaho are so waaaaaay different from children here in georgia that we cant just discuss children issues…. we need to, HAVE to bring race into it to make sense of it all. i guess thats way i cant buy a tonka tractor here in georgia like i can in idaho… .oh! wait…i can and i can in worldwide cause children everywhere are the same. its you hippie-thinking adults that have skewed thinking and dont understand that race has nothing to do with discipline… except in gwinnett obviously.

By Huh

August 21, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

jim d - No thanks!

In WA, I did visit the city and small community meetings, but they always encouraged non-disruptive casual participation. I guess, in my naive mind, that’s what I had envisioned all “public” meetings were like. Learn something new everyday, heh.

By Huh

August 21, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

ohDear - First, don’t be so asinine to assume you know my opinions from a few comments. I fully understand that race, in an ideal world, doesn’t have anything to do with discipline. However, I’m not that blind to believe that it’s only an issue in Gwinnett or that it’s not the reality almost everywhere.

Communities in ID are very different from GA. Each area has it’s own issues to address. Race wasn’t brought into it because of those differences, race was inherit in a discussion of discipline and minorities. How can one cite studies in Idaho when debating minorities in GA?

By jim d

August 21, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

Is Cox smarter than a 5th grader?

LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL.

Foxworthy should have some real fun with this one!!!

By ohDear

August 21, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

* How can one cite studies in Idaho when debating minorities in GA? * <——- this was not the discussion. they were not ‘debating minorities’… they were holding a discussion as to why there is a disproportinate application of discipline in gwinnett and the obvious reason was race…. white children guilt of the same offenses were not disciplined the same as black children guilt of same.

some comfort was to be had because outside of Idaho this is a nation-wide problem…. and wilbanks offered this: idaho doesnt have blacks, does it? not many anyway.

and no this is not the only issue in gwinnett or socially as a nation…. but it is the one on the table today.

By Truth Filter

August 21, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

Let’s get to the question at hand:

1) Wilbanks should apologize. Intentionally or not, he offended some folks. He should say he’s sorry and perhaps pen a letter of apology. He should admit to being a racist — because I think it’s clear he’s not — but he should apologize for making a statement that offended people.

2) People should calm down. Look at Wilbanks entire record before asking him to resign because of one comment that, to some, was offensive. People may not like Wilbanks, but nothing in his past indicates he is racist.

3) People should be careful what they wish for. Gwinnett is the largest system in the state with over 100 schools and yet in the latest AYP report, I think I read that only 4 schools in Gwinnett didn’t make AYP. That’s unreal. Wilbanks is doing something right.

Just a thought from the truth filter.

By RCH

August 21, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

Among the African American community we have over 70% of children born to unwed mothers, a high murder rate, a high school drop out rate, a high unemployment rate,….. and we worry about this statement that might afend. There are more serious maters to worry about than this. Lets concentrate on those.

By RCH

August 21, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

Among the African American community we have over 70% of children born to unwed mothers, a high murder rate, a high school drop out rate, a high unemployment rate,….. and we worry about this statement that might afend. There are more serious maters to worry about than this. Lets concentrate on those.

By Conscious

August 21, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

As a middle age black woman I think the larger question is this: Why are so many black children disproportionately represented in disciplinary actions in Georgia and throughout the United States?

Race may be a “social construct”, but the consequences of race are real. You have to look at race in tandem with social realities, such as 70% or more of black children are born out-of-wedlock and reside with single mothers who often are near the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder. This reality to me dovetails into school underachievement and a host of other social issues.

Wilbanks was inelegant in his remarks and he may well have some vestiges of racism; but the real focus of black anger should be what can we as a people do (in spite of structural racism that still does exist) to help strengthen black families and get black youth on a good life track.

By Gerry

August 21, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

Wilbanks is a bonehead and failed to deal with discipline problems with a HS football player from Dacula. He instead championed the firing of a very much admired Physics teacher (with a Ph.D in Physics).

He should be fired for not maintaining more discipline in the Gwinnett County schools. The administrators want the teachers to handle discipline problems with students. That should be his job and that of the individual school principals, not the teacher. Teachers should be teaching, not distracted by having to deal with problem students.

By GAIL

August 21, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS MINORITIES MAKE UP MOST OF THE DISCIPLINARY PROBLEMS IN THE SCHOOLS BECAUSE IF YOU COMMIT OFFENSES YOU PAY THE PRICE AND THEY ARE COMMITTING THE OFFENSES, SORRY IF IT OFFENDS BUT IT’S THE TRUTH. I HOPE WILBANKS WON’T BOW TO PEOPLE WHO COMPLAIN BECAUSE THEY MOVED TO THIS COUNTY FOR A BETTER EDUCATION FOR THEIR CHILDREN BUT THEY WANT THEIR CHILDREN TO “RUN THE SCHOOLS” AND DO AS THEY PLEASE. FACTS ARE FACTS. DON’T LIKE IT? DO BETTER REARING YOUR CHILDREN.

By Lulline

August 21, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

When a high ranking school official makes such a reckless statement, he’s either stupid or, he’s showing his true colors. Attitudes like this is that puts lables on children and god only knows what their teachers are saying too. We don’t know what these kids are dealing with when they go home. Some may be homeless, some may be dealing with abuse in some way, some are hungry, tired, alone; you just don’t know! Instead of working harder with parents to try and find a solution, he became a part of the problem by fueling the racist fire. His comment about why the problem doesn’t exist in Idaho is because they have a low black population vs Gwinnett’s is pretty clear. The man should learn to keep his mouth shut if he can’t say something inteligent. I tell you, it’s a good thing I don’t live in Gwinnett Co because I’d put him in his place at the next parents open forum! Disipline is a problem for every parent and no race has it any easier than other. As for “AlreadySheared”, you are an idiot; what cave have you been living in? Not every child from single mothers are “problem children”. There are a lot of upper-middle class white couples that have disipline issues too. The black mothers I know don’t tolorate any crap and they have a pretty tight grip on their kids. There many single mothers/fathers out there who do a great job raising well behaved children! Our biggest resource is other parents and I take advise anywhere I get it, because there is no instruction booklet to go to. The bottom line is there are racist eveywhere we live, they are our doctors, teacher, neighbors, co-workers.. Some of them are very good at hiding their feelings while others are not. It’s up to us to try and make the right choices and not put our faith & trust in the wrong people. Use the voice/power you have to put the right people on the school board that have the same values & vision that you, the parent have for your child!

By Tony

August 21, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

jim d - Yes. I have read your concerns about Gwinnett and those concerns remain. In this situation, the true conversation about why there are disparities between the races when it comes to student discipline is one that many of us should have, but it is an incident like this that will keep us from having that discussion. I hope Gwinnett is able to finish the dialogue and find some answers.

By Kelly

August 21, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

I am sorry for the Gwinnett County School District for having such a whining Superintendent. An apology needs to be forthcoming to Idaho also! As an administrator, you should understand that having your facts first is very important. Yes, we have all origins here, not just white people. You sound like a little kid who just lost a baseball game and blame the umpire for the loss! maybe instead of pointing fingers or hurting people for your own gain, you might try the good old fashioned method of looking for solutions then working to implement them? What a concept that would be for you. As a parent, I am glad you are not here in Idaho which also might explain why we do not have your problems. Not because of race, but because we have people here putting solutions to work!

By jim d

August 21, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

Truth Filter,

Wilbanks is doing something right.

Care to know what it is he does so well?

cooks the books?

By dave

August 21, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

Why is it there is the ability to blog the Gwinnett issue, but not a blog for the Clayton issue.

It’s the Clayton County School Board folks playing the race card.

So tell us AJC .. why isn’t there a blog for your Clayton County School Board article???

By Penguinmom

August 21, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

This is one of the stupidest things I’ve heard in awhile. His comment was not racist, it was a specific question/comment on the actual information they were covering. Why are blacks represented more often on discipline reports than whites everywhere in the country except Idaho.

So either Idaho is doing something that the Entire rest of the country is not. Or the fact that only 1% of their population is black would account for the fact that blacks are not disproportionally represented on their discipline reports. DUH!

By jim d

August 21, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

Dave,

Why? hmm, roughly 80-90,000 reasons—and everyone of them is a student.

check the enrollment numbers.

and don’t forget—newspapers are in the business of selling papers with tons of advertising—not in reporting the news.

By Patti

August 21, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

First let me say this, have any of you ever sat in a classroom in Gwinnett County and observed the way the students act?

I have and after about 30 minutes I had to get up and leave because I wanted to discipline the students myself! The teacher had to repeatedly ask the same students to sit down, be quiet, place all four legs of the chairs on the floor, etc. And I will say that in this particular classroom, the majority of the troublemakers were minority students. Out of the group of about 10 troublemakers, probably 8 of them were minorities. These particular students have absolutely no respect for the teachers and don’t want to be in school (and this was at the middle school level). The rest of the classroom that wanted to learn could not because of these few students.

I understand that this is a parent problem where the children are not getting the education at home on how to treat people of authority or others in general. I am not going to say that this is a “single mom” problem, I am a single mom and my son has respect for his elders. I instilled this in him at a young age.

I also think that the major issue here is the fact that the teachers are very limited in the type of discipline that they can submit the children to. There are too many parents out there that don’t take responsibility for their children and think that their child can do absolutely nothing wrong. Well, their children are usually the worst ones!

I know that I am off point here a little bit based on the fact that this was supposed to be about what Wilbanks said. I think he could have said what he did in a better way but I don’t disagree with the theory behind what he said.

By observer

August 21, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

As a career Gwinnett employee now retired, I distinctly recall being part of a large Gwinnett staff meeting several years ago when the direction of the math curriculum was being discussed. What was the latest TIMMS report, what would we do to be a world class school system, etc.

When the success of math in Japanese schools was lauded, Mr. Wilbanks made a last statement for the audience to ponder - “There’s a lot of Japanese in Japan.” No other comments. His statement has stayed with me all these years as an eye opener into what he believes - that a child’s ethnic background plays a compelling roll in the potential success of that child.

Mr. Wilbank’s statement about few black students in Idaho, while I agree was in context of problem solving about uneven discipline statistics, is no different and is an eye opener again into his beliefs regardless of how much he cares for the kids and helping them overcome obstacles. This to me is the basis of racism - that we’re not created equal and it confirms to me that this is Mr. Wilbanks’ belief.

By Vince

August 21, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

Gerry…

I tire of people bringing up that Dacula situation. My daughter was in the same class as that football player. She once was given a zero for “wasting time” because she finished an assignment too quickly…even though everything was correct. That football player was a good kid. His “discipline problem” was that he fell asleep in class. Getting back to the topic: So Wilbanks gets in trouble for speaking the truth!!!???

By rd

August 21, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

If your school consists 100% of white (majority) students, then you cannot possible punish the minority more because there ARE NO MINORITIES to punish. So if my school is 100% white, my punishment of minority students is 0%. THAT is what he meant.

Idaho, North Dakota, South Dakota… the upper midwest states… are mostly white and there are MANY schools that are 100% (or nearly so) white. Therefore, punishment of minority students in Idaho would be nearly 0%. The racial take on this shows that people are TRYING to create racial tensions when no racial slight was meant or inferred

By rd

August 21, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

A quick wiki look at Idaho shows the state to be 97% white. Therefore, there will be MANY schools with no minorities whatsoever. Mr. Wilbanks statement was a statement of FACT. FACT cannot be racially motivated.

By Mike P

August 21, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

I have never been a Wilbanks fan however let’s get real. Facts are facts and stats are stats. A larger percentage of diciplinary problems in our school system is created by minorities. Quit trying to be polictically correct and either change the facts or except the facts. Wilbanks for once got it right.

By J.B. Stoner

August 21, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Could one of you fools define the word “racist” and then in a cogent, coherent and grammatical manner, explain how the rhetorical query at issue is “racist”?

Hyper-sensitive eboniks-spewing thugs need to book passage back to Africa. I say “back” since that is where Those People claim to originate in that they designate dey-seves as “African-American.”

And, while you’re at it, as the late Bernie Mac said,” “Pull ya pants up!”

By Is that so Alvin?

August 21, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

This is the comment Alvin needs to be raked over the coals for: “Those who know me and my record are well aware of my commitment to raising student achievement and to providing safe and orderly schools…”

Ask Janine Fair how “committed” to safe, orderly schools she feels Alvin is after she literally got the hell beat out of her despite repeated efforts to have a known discipline problem addressed.

And no Alvin, falsifying records is not “committment”.

By TIMEFORCHANGE

August 21, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

If a school is black majority then more problems will be with blacks. Its in the numbers. He did nothing wrong in making a question/statement about blacks in Idaho.

I am getting so sick of people being so sensitive. In fact I am really sick of the few getting over on the many. No prayer in school, bam, its out and it has ruined the school forever. Take a good look at what a few complainers can do. These are our kids here we are talking about.

I read that in Texas, school teachers are allowed to carry guns now. What as a society have we become when a teacher has to carry a gun in order to teach. Maybe as a community we should take a good look at what our schools have really become and fix that problem. Yes it is the students. Is it because there are to many illegals creating gangs, hispanics vs black. Oh maybe I should not have said that, it might cause hurt feelings. You know what oh well. Two black students walk down the hall and call out to each other “HEY N,,,,R”. They grab hands, hit nuckles or whatever. A white person uses that word and its attach time. Its either endearing or its trashy, one or the other, pick one. I choose to say its trashy. People are people not color. So everyone get over it.

The schools have enough problems to be fixed without picking apart every statement from a school official. Learn to deal with it, pick up the phone and call him, tell him you did not appreciate the statement, but ban him, call for his resignation. Some of you people need to get a life.

By flipper

August 21, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

OMG - come on folks, some people here have such a low understanding of logic and math that they can’t even understand what Wilbanks was saying.

Gotta love that Georgia education!!! Y’all should be proud!

Wilbanks was commenting on math, not race. Idaho has very, very few Blacks. As a result it would be impossible to get a statistically significant result of racial bias when only a very small percentage of students are Black to begin with. Anyone with even the most basic understanding of statistics gets that.

I’m an affirmative action consultant and I ask questions very similar to the one Mr. Wilbanks asked all the time. Does that mean I’m racist… heck, no. If there aren’t enough minorities around you can’t possibly measure adverse impact b/c your results won’t be statistically valid.

Oh.. .but some folks will race bait even if it makes them look incredibly stupid. You just can’t fix stupid can you.

Pathetic isn’t it.

By SallyB

August 21, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

RE: flipper’s point: If there aren’t enough minorities around you can’t possibly measure adverse impact b/c your results won’t be statistically valid Most of you here know that in order to be counted on the CRCT results there must be a certain number of that group, i.e if there are only 6 Hispanic students in a school, their group does not count. IMHO, that was Wilbanks’ point. Also, re: that statement he made; THere are a lot of Japanese in Japan…..It is no secret that certain ethnic groups have certain characteristics. If there is no diversity, there are no percentages of anything.
Is it true thatthat a few years ago, Harvard limited the number of Asian students it admits because they were being admitted in great numbers because their scores and grades were so high…a kind of affirmative action????!!!

By dave

August 21, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

WE SHOULD HAVE PICKED OUR OWN COTTON.

By catlady

August 21, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

This is what I said yesterday: *By catlady August 20, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this I don’t know much about Mr. Wilbanks. I think his point was, when the racial demographics are so skewed, as in Idaho (2006: 95% white, less than 1% black if I looked at it correctly) it is hard to see any valid racial bias. I mean, if every single black kid got in trouble, it would still be a very small proportion of all the kids in trouble in the whole state. They might, for example, be 10% of the kids in trouble, but who would care much about such a small number? I mean, it would be unlikely to catch anyone’s eye.

Let them report it by SEs instead of race in Georgia and I think you would see a very different picture. I think lower SES kids, white and black, tend to get into more serious problems than higher SES kids, white and black. It has been well documented that single parent homes disproportionately are represented in dropouts, illiterates, “early family formation”, and prison. Single parent homes tend to be lower SES. And two thirds of black kids are born to single parent homes.

I DON’T think the statement he made was intended to say that black kids are most of our problem in behavior, although without parsing through the statistics, it sounded that way.*

I stand by it. We use “race” as a proxy for so many things. It is easier to use race because you can see it. Class, on the other hand, is a little harder to detect on casual glance.

We DO have behavior-problem students who are upper class, but proportionately not as many. We MOST CERTAINLY DO have a large underclass, black, white, and Latino, who are the antithesis of what we think is a well-behaved student.

My school has no black students (a few biracial students, yes) YET WE HAVE PLENTY OF BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS. To hear some of the posters, we should have none at all. Our Latino kids, about 16% of the population, are much less than 10% of the behavior problems. That leaves—you guessed it—the white kids. And while I can tell you individual stories of low income kids who do well in the classroom, the majority of the behavior problem kids and the low level kids are poor and from single or mom plus “dad” of the day homes. NOT all, but most. Do the breakdowns by SES instead of race, or by family status instead of race, and you will see it quite clearly.

In our country, a black child is more likely to come from a single parent home and single parent homes are more likely to be poor homes. NOT ALL single parent homes—we all can name success stories. However, I challenge folks to look at the big picture instead of the just the folks you know.

The question is: what can be done and who should be doing it? Do we ignore it? Change the rules? Fudge the reports? Provide counseling, small groups, free meals, clothing, mentors (oh, wait, we already do all that and it does not seem to provide a cure)? Is it the schools’ responsibility? So whose responsibility is it?

By jim d

August 21, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

Time for change,

And I’m sick AND tired of the lies about no prayer in schools.

Repeat it as often as you wish but it will still be a lie.

By SallyB

August 21, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this

Well said, catlady!!! but…I’m just not really clear on your comment, jimd

Also, in an all Asian school, are there problems?

By thomas

August 21, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

What I am tired of is angry blacks, bitter and with chips on their shoulders. They are using any excuse to get back at “whitey.” Wilbanks’ comments were nothing. There are no black people in Idaho. What’s wrong it that statement?

The real issue is that some people are mad at America, bitter, and full of hate. They don’t share the American dream and believe that this is the greatest country on the face of the earth. They think it is biased and unfair. They see boogeymen behind every tree. They question every motive and action. They seek to find fault and LOOK FOR PROBLEMS. It has been like this for centuries.

Why don’t the angry people just leave? It will make life better for the rest of us.

By SET

August 21, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this

Blacks as a group are more criminal and more violent than Asians and whites. There. And this is news? It’s not news. Anyone who has ever looked at US statistics about crime and demographics knows this.

Why isn’t the issue. Truth is truth. You are not going to have similar discipline stats on large groups of different ethnics because they don’t behave the same.

Is the whiners who are having a hissy fit about something the man said - can’t handle public discussion of the school’s discipline problems, they had better stay home and let the grown ups talk.

By catlady

August 21, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this

SET, don’t you “know”, black folks are in jail more because of “unfair” laws? That is what some folks allege.

Are there unfairly prosecuted laws? yeah. In my county, if you are Latino you are more likely to be pulled over for “following too close” and then it is found that they don’t have insurance, or they don’t have a license, or they have been drinking. Yet, I can tell you, if the police would pull over the “good ole boys” with such enthusiasm, they would find drinking or lapsed insurance or license withdrawn in much higher numbers than they currently find.

I do wonder, SET, if you have had much contact with lower class folks of other ethnic groups? If so, have you seen the same disproportionately disfunctional behaviors?

By Competitive

August 21, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this

It’s sad to see our schools have done such a poor job of teaching listening (and reading) comprehension, not to mention thinking and common sense.

Wilbanks should turn around, bend over, and tell these people to kiss his a**. Unfortunately, that won’t happen. If it did, people would claim it’s because he is racist, not because of the FACTS.

Imagine that, using facts to make decisions, not taboo words and fear.

By Mary

August 22, 2008 8:11 AM | Link to this

I worked for Alvin W. up until 2000. He allows his management (Executive Directors) to fire minority employees for no offense, while keeping and promoting white employees who pass their work off onto other employees. For what they did to me in the technology dept., the system was fined by the E.E.O. under A.D.A. I was one employee, who was moved onto projects only because white staff found black employees ‘too dumb’ to work with. The additional work crippled me. I can truthfully ask Wilbanks if he is still allowing his staff to cripple women and fire black employees.

By flipper

August 22, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

Mary, the “EEO” (you mean EEOC - Equal Employoment Opportunity Commission) doesn’t “fine” anyone. The ADA does not provide for “fining” employers. ADA would not apply to your case because you were injured on the job. It only applies if you have a pre-existing disability that they are not REASONABLY accomodating. As a matter of fact, the ADA does not even apply to public school districts. They are covered by the Rehabilitation Act instead. I practice employment law for a living so I know this. Your facts are so off that I have to believe you are lying.

By SET

August 22, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Catlady: I have a lot of contact with the underclass of all races here in CA.

Prosecution only covers a fraction of the typical psychopathic behavior that goes on daily in the ghettos and in the urban areas. Baloney of minorities - or anyone else - claims they are being singled out.

The people I see in the criminal courts did their level best to get caught. People around here typically don’t go anywhere near state prison until they are carrying 5 separate felony cases - and each one was while on local probation for the previous ones. Yes you can go from law abiding to Murder One but that is highly unusual.

And as far as those complaining they are being followed and pulled over by the cops - Baloney. What really happened is that they had a cracked windshield, expired tags, drilled out trunk keyhole, dangling items from the rear mirror, rag dangling from the gas pipe, no seatbelts, talking on their cellphone, and every manner of “Pull Me Over” red flags. When stopped they had no licence, no insurance, outstanding warrants, and drug paraphanelia in plain view in the car.

We see this all day long every day. Most of our traffic cases here, more than half of the caseload, are hispanic and there’s nothing subtle about their appearance to the cops. Hispanics are most of the DUIs and hit and runs, and they typically have priors. The blacks are almost as obvious. As a group they not only flout the traffic laws but don’t change their behavior in response to getting caught. Some of this may wane with age… But car insurance around here is $1500 to $5000 a year and minorities are far less likely to have it.

You can’t feel sorry for people just because they would like some pity.

Brave New World.

By SET

August 22, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

Additional thought on the rant above. These problems were not typical 2 generations ago. Back then Driving was taught in the public schools, not so now. Everybody had classroom training on traffic laws. Now minorities typically go for licenses only after age 18 instead of 16 because then the classroom training is no longer required. Even if they can pass the written exam, which I am informed is to become a time pressure test administered by computer, minorities have relatively little understanding of the traffic laws, fines and procedures. The lack of formal classromm training is related to this.

Our traffic fines are far more expensive now and the computer turns off your license and issues a warrant when you don’t pay. Running a stop sign is usually $300, driving without insurance is $1600. Failure to Appear in court is $500 to $1000. Between this and the higher insurance rates we now have a situation where black males over 25 typically do not have a license - they drive anyway of course. In 1960 they had licenses and kept them. Back then, delinquent child support wasn’t an automatic license loss also. In CA your car is impounded if driven by an unlicensed driver. 46% of those local impounds are never reclaimed.

As if that wasn’t all, all the CA criminal courts have a direct computer connection to DMV and feed all drug cases to them. Any drug related conviction results in the computer turning off the license for a year. When you drive anyway, the fines and warrants snowball. Guess who has a high rate of drug cases?

When public schools teach indiscipline the consequences for the students are subtle, lifelong and deadly. The inferior public school discipline has a lot to do with what we see in minority traffic problems.

Such as the loud radio cases… I once asked an audience of young blacks how many of them were pulled over for loud radio - then how many of them were pulled over more than twice for that…

Learning disabilities I suppose.

It is frustrating but it’s not “being picked on”.

By Teacher, Too

August 22, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

SET- I’m so glad you chimed in on this topic. You don’t make excuses- just state the facts.

One other thing to consider regarding J. Alvin’s comments— what is the total African- American population of the each school. When I taught in Gwinnett, I taught in majority-Black schools. So, yes- there was a higher number of referrals of Black students.

I expect there are schools where the number of Hispanic referrals is rising, simply because there are schools where there are larger concentrations of Hispanic students.

I do agree with the blogger who would prefer to correlate discipline referrals with socio-economic status. Schools conform to middle class behaviors and values- and often, students who come from lower SES haven’t been taught the behaviors we expect in our schools.

One final note- I disagree with the lady who used to work for J. Alvin. When I taught in Gwinnett, our principal had no idea of how to read a balance sheet, kept spending money that we didn’t have because he didn’t know how to read a balance sheet, had his office totally redecorated, and basically was incompetent and ineffective. My students would comment on how he didn’t know how to pronouce/ use correctly the “big” words he tried to fold into afternoon announcements.

Umm, after a couple of years of running the school into the ground because of incompetence, he was “promoted” to the central office. As I understand it (this is the rumor mill at work) the district wouldn’t fire him because they didn’t want to be sued over racial discrimination, even though he was clearly ineffective, inept, and committed fiscal malfeasance. All of this was documented through on-going central office visits.

By SET

August 22, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

Teacher Too: The states back east have no idea how bad the Mexican Pathology is - when their Mexican demographics rise the eastern states are going to have a whole bunch of problems they aren’t used to. DUIs, Sexual Behaviors, education problems, refusal to use English, gang violence and ethnic cleansing of blacks from occupations and neighborhoods… Whites just don’t see what they are not looking for.

Is all this a bad thing? To each his own. People are different that they really don’t care what the dominant culture thinks or wants, they do as they please.

It’s really exciting to watch Mexican Culture come in - like Iceplant in your garden. And they really can clean houses and work building trades too. But the schools are going to have an adjustment period.

Brave New World.