Get Schooled

By Ernest

August 14, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this

Both tests are ‘measurement tools’ however their results have been ‘misused’ by the public. I believe if used properly, they can help students that are planning to go to college by identifying areas that they need additional remediation in. I believe DeKalb has all 9th graders take the PSAT however I’m not sure what type of advice/guidance is provided to students once the results come back.

I’d rather see more students take the ACT around the 10th grade, based on what I’ve heard about this test. Based on those results, a collective decision should be made (student, parents, teachers, & counselors) whether to proceed with the SAT. I believe GA has too many students that are not planning to go to college take the SAT hence why our ‘average’ state scores look the way they do. Of course everyone says you shouldn’t compare scores district to district and state to state but we know many people are. I believe this ‘hurts’ GA when it comes to competing for businesses with other states.

By north GA Teacher

August 14, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this

The real purpose of the ACT and SAT are to assess a sophistication level of a student. This “sophistication” in knowledge, intellect and academic culture is derived from the student’s family and socioeconomic environment, and the quality of high school education. The ACT and SAT are especially valuable in comparing students from high schools that have vastly different standards. (Everyone in the Atlanta area can immediately think of two schools where “A”s mean entirely different things.) High school grades are usually an excellent predictor of college success, but not always. The ACT and SAT, in combination with high school grades, together form an excellent data base for admission. Also, it is important for students to go to a college that suits theur abilities as well as interests.

By flipper

August 14, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this

Ernest has it right. Folks going to the local community college or to a basically noncompetitive third or fourth tier college have no business taking the SAT.

By AnthonyI

August 14, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

I think that the GA State School Board and local BOE’s need to come together and map out a constructive plan and then get the local community feedback and then apply across the board. We Need To Be On One Page. This is a serious problem.

I seems to me that ever BOE and districts have there on agenda as if they are not striving for the same goal. To improve peroformance test scores, act/sat test score. Try something and stick to it and push all the educator and parents to get with the program. Education is a requirement not an Option. Peace

By Stacey

August 14, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

When I graduated from high school 20 years ago, we were only offered ACT in my area of MS. I had a few classmates who were going to out of state schools that required the SAT and they had to drive 4 hours to Ole Miss to take it. Since I only took the ACT, I can’t compare but people I know who took both (my husband for example) felt that while they were similar in content, the SAT was a little tougher.

By Mattie

August 14, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

My 12th grader took the SAT as a junior, along with the rest of his class. He did horribly. I don’t think his scores would have gotten him into any school in GA. I signed him up for the ACT, and he did very well on it. The difference for him was that ACT included science, which is one of his favorite subjects. I know of several others who also performed much better on the ACT than the SAT. I saw no reason to put him through tutoring and another try at the SAT, when so many colleges will accept either. I was surprised that the high school never mentioned it as an alternative, and also that when I got his ACT results, and asked his guidance counselor for confirmation that they were good enough to submit to colleges, he confessed he didn’t have much experience interpreting them!
There’s a subject worth discussing for another day. What exactly do high school guidance counselors do for the students in GA? From my experience, unless the child has an IEP, not much!

By jim d

August 14, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

They both measure just one thing—how well you take a standardized test.

They don’t tell you how smart you are.

They don’t indicate how well you did in high school, and they damn sure are no indication of how well you’ll do in college.

Some colleges such as Wake forest have even quit using them altogether. I believe we will soon see a trend in this direction.

By Reader

August 14, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

How are the current budget problems affecting your school or district?

Are teachers being told there is no money for new materials — while being told they have to teach a new curriculum/

By Tony

August 14, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

The SAT and ACT are two completely different kinds of tests. Both can give an idea of student achievement, but the SAT is more akin to an IQ test and the ACT is more like an achievement test (ITBS). The ACT measures content knowledge across several subjects. The SAT measures aptitudes in language and mathematics. (Writing has been added in recent years.)

Neither test should be used as a way to compare schools. No school curriculum is based on the criteria of these tests and therefore the tests can not give reliable feedback about the quality of a school. The tests can give feedback about how well kids take tests and most everyone knows by now that relates more to socioeconomic status than any other factor.

The best way to immediately raise SAT scores in Georgia is to stop having so many students take the test. I would attribute the improved ACT scores to better curricula in our schools, but there are too many other causal factors that must be considered before any valid conclusions can be drawn. Politician love jumping to conclusions, though.

By catlady

August 14, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

For my elder daughter and my son, it made more sense to take the ACt. It is more heavily leaning toward reading type skills, while the SAT is more heavily slanted to math. Therefore, my brilliant at math daughter scored quite well on the SAT; the ACt would not have been such a good test for her. It is time counselors steered kids to the better test for the individual, instead of one size fits all (SAT).

By Future Counselor

August 14, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this

Being three years out of high school, I can answer this one with a more personal touch. I took both the new SAT and the ACT. The content of the ACT was more based on what’s expected to be known after 10th grade (e.g. algebra, analytical reading, scientific reasoning). The SAT was more of an IQ test like Tony said. Admission test are increasingly becoming a load of bunk, but if I had to choose one, I’d look at the ACT. The SAT is supposed to be an aptitude test, but if my drunk classmate that doesn’t study can get a 2000 like the classmate that stuck her head a prep book for a year, what does that tell you about the SAT’s reliability? (P.S. the drunk one couldn’t hack Emory after a year and the other one is doing well.)

By Lee

August 15, 2008 12:10 AM | Link to this

Years ago, when I took the SAT, we didn’t have kids who spent months preparing for the SAT. You signed up for the test, paid your money, and went to the local community college who administered the test.

There were no SAT prep materials (other than the booklet they sent out when you signed up), computer programs that drilled you on SAT questions, or instructor led prep classes.

Today, SAT and ACT prep has become a multi-million dollar industry unto itself. As a result, the validity of these two tests as a predictor of college success have probably become skewed.

By catlady

August 16, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

H.S. grades are a better predictor of college achievement for many students, but then you have kids with a “4.0” who test into developmental studies so you have to have some kind of way to compare students from schools with vastly different grading criteria. (Kind of like you have kids with an A who failed the CRCT :)

IMHO, both tests are achievement tests. They don’t measure native ability (aptitude) ; they measure how much you have learned (mastered). The ACT is a much better test for kids not especially advanced in math but who are literate; the SAT weights math skills much more highly but still has strong expectations for reading/English skills.

Good point about the prep now. In my day, in my small Southern town, no one that I know of did any prep except for reading the brochure and trying the practice questions. We did take the PSAT the year before. Mostly, my friends and I walked in, took it, and left, and I know only one person who took it more than once. That is what I had my own children do. I guess if they had done poorly they might have taken it again, but I figured it was best to have an accurate picture of their skills on which to base their college decision-making. I mean, if you have to “coach” a kid up 100 points to make a higher tier school, will that kid be able to cut it at that school without a lot of help?