Get Schooled

By sue

August 8, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this

Those parents should be arrested for child abuse.

By Lee

August 8, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

“She said parents are getting their pediatricians to prescribe the drug even though there is nothing wrong with their children.”

So, this teacher is now a medical doctor?

Haven’t we read on this blog countless times of how teachers went to school and are certified and everyone else should just shut up about education?

Well, that doctor went to school and has a license to practice medicine.

If the medicine is prescribed by a doctor and the child is taking the medicine as prescribed, there isn’t a damn thing this teacher or the school can or should do about it.

Ergo, teacher, shut up.

By Leen

August 8, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

Hearing this has trickled down to middle school saddens me. I first heard about college students taking Adderall when a friend’s daughter convinced a doctor she suffered from ADD. She took it to concentrate on her studying, and graduated with a 4.0 GPA. Next, my son mentioned that a lot of his friends also were taking it, and he was thinking about getting some. From what I’ve heard, it’s a huge trend on college campuses. I talked my son out of experimenting with it, but he said it’s readily available for purchase on campus. I’m not sure “adult-onset” ADD even exists. Why would a doctor give a prescription without a history of need?

By Whatever

August 8, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Lee - that’s pitiful. Teachers have an obligation to report abuse. Drugs that are not medically necessary for a child IS abuse. Would you say the same if a kid was taking prescribed Oxycontin if there’s nothing wrong with them? According to your logic, since the doctor prescribed it, it’s alright.

Just dumb.

By Liha

August 8, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

I have dealt with ADHD all of my life. When I was a child, it wasn’t an issue addressed in schools. The schools should have recognized I had some challenges because I always scored in the 95th %-ile or better on the ITBS but my grades didn’t reflect that.

As an adult, I went to a psychiatrist about it. He prescribed Adderall to me. (BTW he didn’t “medically assess” me in any way. I just told him my story.) It truly helped me at work. I was much more focused and productive. However, if I didn’t take it, I was irritable to the point of rage. I decided to discontinue with the Adderall because I didn’t want to be chained to a med. And I didn’t like the mood swings.

It concerns me that young people are taking these drugs to amp up their school performance. I hope we don’t see an increase in aggression among these students because they don’t take the meds on weekends. Young folks are emotional enough without complications from irresponsible med usage.

By JustMe

August 8, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

Wow, Lee - such hostility! Sounds like this article hit too close to home for comfort in your little world. Perhaps we should have the IT guys at the AJC trace your IP address & send DFACS to your home to investigate what chemical cocktail you’re forcing upon your kid.

By TIMEFORCHANGE

August 8, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

Ok, if students are using ADD medication and they are not ADD then they are high and should be expelled for using drugs. Any person that takes Ritalin or Adderal that does not have ADD or ADHD is indeed doping for the speed. In a true ADD/ADHD person, it calms them down and does help them focus. Anyone who is not ADD is getting a speed high and like I said before, should be expelled. Any doctor that prescribes this medication without a proper diagnois should loose their license to practice.

By decaturparent

August 8, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

Wow, that’s just pathetic. I really feel for kids today. They are nothing but “products” to be used for their parents’ satisfaction and status… not humans.

Here is a link to a relevant article - it’s on the home page of this site…..

http://playborhood.com/

By Jason

August 8, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

“Teachers have an obligation to report abuse. Drugs that are not medically necessary for a child IS abuse.”

I think Lee’s argument is that teachers aren’t qualified to determine whether drugs are necessary or unnecessary for a child, as they aren’t M.D.’s.

By Tony

August 8, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Doctors have license to practice medecine and their prescription habits are often scrutinized.

I have not seen this phenomenon, but I have seen parents refuse to seek medical help for children who truly suffer from ADD/ADHD. Both situations may be regrettable, but they do not fall within the teachers’ domain. Report facts about behavior and academic progress, but teachers have no business trying to practice medicine.

By Wow

August 8, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Would this help me and my co-workers do a better job? Maybe I should get my boss to read this and he can hire a doctor to diagnos all of us with ADD and give us drugs.

By JustMe

August 8, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

Tony, you must be a medical doctor trained in recognizing and identifying ADD / ADHD. Otherwise, how can you so conclusively state that you have seen parents refuse to seek medical treatment for their children who suffer from these conditions?

What are you basing this on? Some public school system teacher who doesn’t have the ability and / or desire to provide a challenging, attention drawing, thought-provoking education to a child who may be more spirited or have higher intellect than “the norm”?

Get a grip. For years, teachers have been insisting parents put their child on Ritalin without medical basis. The teachers don’t have the experience, education, resources, and werewithal to handle this “unruly student” (ie: give them the stimulating education they need and deserve), so here’s this little pill that will make lil’ Johnny or Jill sit still like a (mindless drone) good little boy or girl and take all the pressure off the poor, overworked and underpaid teacher.

By JD

August 8, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

This is sad and a tough spot at the same time. Adderall is what is really scary about it. There is no doubt that it can help anyone focus, retain studies and be productive but I’ve seen what it does over the long-run and the withdrawals are horrible. They really need to look at the side effects. I know I would have a hard time giving it to my children and would be pretty upset if they got it on their own. I think that stuff kills your self-motivation and wrecks your body. I tried it and while I did study all night and remember everything my body was literally sore, I felt dehydrated and hungover. So, yeah, I think teachers have a responsibility to check with parents but also let them know if a child might need to be tested.

By mayretter local

August 8, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

you can solve all your problems with this little pill… - Dr. Timothy Leary

By anon

August 8, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

my nephew was diagnosed and is definitely ADHD, but he went to live with his (divorced) dad when he was 12 who refused to let the kid take medication. Sad — my nephew is a smart boy, but he was in remedial classes, barely graduated from high school and now is convinced he’s stupid so not planning further education. It will affect the rest of his life. So, yes, some parents don’t “believe” in treating their child’s ADD.

By bleh

August 8, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

This topic is boring. Can we choose another?

By JV

August 8, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

Anon, Let me guess…. you’re related to your nephews mother and not his father. I guess you and your sister think the boy needs some “speed”. Freaks!

By PM

August 8, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

Ritalin and its relatives are stimulant drugs. If someone takes it who is not truly ADD, it acts as a stimulant and will cause kids to lose focus, not gain it. Truly ADD kids have the opposite from normal reaction to this class of drugs, and it only works properly on them.

By Najeh Davenpoop

August 8, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

I took Adderall once to study for a test in college. Let me tell you — weed works a lot better than Adderall.

By gwarfan

August 8, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

Leary was a true genius and gave a lot to the world with his magical medicine. Stimulants help people focus. Adderall is speed man. Speed makes you foucs. College kids take it recreationally also so they can stay up longer and party more. It is just like taking other caffine to help you focus or ephidrine to help you focus. What is the advantage of higher grades for a middle schooler? If they have ADD I get giving them drugs so they can learn. But it does not matter if you have a 4.0 in middle school, no one will ever see those records, they do not count toward anything in life or futher education.

By catlady

August 8, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

I’ve seen quite a few kids who should be evaluated for ADD, but whose parents refuse. I’ve seen quite a few who have been evaluated and prescribed but the parents apparently sell the med or “forget” to give it or “don’t think it is necessary”. And, sadly, there are people who have their kids put on it to get them out of their hair, rather than dealing with their children properly. At our school we have very few medicated kids; IMHO we have more who might be candidates for medication but do not get it. This is merely my experience, based on 34+ years in the classroom. I think I have taught 4 or 5 kids over the years who were on medication. The others I am aware of (from my note above) I have observed in action, but not as their teacher of record.

As to the “medical evaluation”: the doctors around here have parents fill out a report on the child’s behavior at home and send one to the child’s teachers at school, then they add up the scores. It ain’t brain surgery.

By Mike Lanza

August 8, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

Here’s a relevant quote from the book, Milennials Rising:

“Ironically, where young Boomers once turned to drugs to prompt impulses and think outside the box, today they turn to drugs to suppress their kids’ impulses and keep their behavior inside the box.”

By tim

August 8, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

Hey kids. You need those drugs to compete with my 3.7 first semester GPA following 32 years hiatus. PS. Girls need shorter skirtz!

By TheBlogger

August 8, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this

Part of me is shocked that parents are caring enough to bother doing this (if it is true) to help their kid’s academic life. Part of me is shocked that parents would put their child’s health at risk like that.

If a teacher suspects child abuse, it is their legal responsibility to report it. And, a child taking unnecessary drugs, even prescription, does fall into that category. A teacher only needs to suspect, not to be a “medical doctor” and there doesn’t even need to be “hard evidence.” A teacher should just report it to the social worker and then forget about it and let the wheels of justice turn.

By WFC

August 9, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this

I am not a doctor. I don’t even play one on TV. However, I taught for 27 years and was an administrator for 4 years. I am an EXPERT on adolescent behavior. I spent approx 180 hours a year with teens. How many doctors spend that amount of time with a teen patient before handing out drugs? What have I learned:

• Some parents refuse to consider drugs even when the need was indicated. I NEVER suggested starting a drug regimen. I often suggested evaluations.

• Some parents sought drugs for their teens as a substitute for good parenting.

• Some teens simply aren’t into academics but their parents realize that college degrees are the safest ticket to a good income. Some entrepreneurial and artistic teens achieve success. But, the odds are stacked against them.

• Some teens are simply not smart and no drug currently available will change that.

• Most importantly, teens mature at different rates and our schools don’t take this into account. Many a 17-year-old dolt is a “solid citizen” at 25.

By Lee

August 9, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

The “Blogger’s” abuse scenario would be something like this:

Busybody, “I’d like to report a case of child abuse. There’s a child in my classroom taking prescription meds”

DFACS, “Oh my! We can’t let that happen. Whose meds are they?”

Busy, “The student’s.”

DFACS, “So, this student is taking his own medication as prescribed by his doctor.”

Busy, “That’s right. You must do something. This is CHILD ABUSE!!”

DFACS, “I think I see the problem here.”

By Lee

August 9, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

“I am an EXPERT on adolescent behavior.”

Sorry, there’s no such thing. Next, you’ll be telling us you understand what women want. lol

By Tony

August 9, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

definition of expert: possessing special skill or knowledge; trained by practice; skillful or skilled

Note that the definition does not include the phrase “one who has all the answers”

Just for JustMe: Can you read? IIRC, I said I was opposed to teachers practicing medicine. That does not mean we are so ignorant that we can’t recognize clear warning signs. I agree with you that one of the first steps teachers must take is to make sure lessons are engaging for all students. There are other steps, too. But I have been in plenty of situations where all of the important educational strategies were exhausted.

By catlady

August 9, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

Lee, we cannot report directly to DFACs. We have “proper channels” to navigate.

Your scenario would probably play like this:

Teacher: I have a student who seems to be behaving oddly. I am concerned. He/she seems to be sedated/very hyped up.

Principal/counselor: when have you noted the behavior? Is it every day? do you have any record of your observations? If it is not written down, it did not happen.

Teacher: it has been every day for the last 3 weeks. I have kept notes on the sleeping/jumping around because it seems unusual for this student. Here are copies of my notes.

Principal/counselor: thank you for your report. We will contact the school social worker.

End of teacher involvement. DFACS may or may not get involved. Social worker may or may not observe the student, may or may not make a home visit and talk to the parents. “something” may or may not happen, and the concern may or may not seem to be addressed.

By TheBlogger

August 9, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

Teachers are required by law to report any suspicions of abuse of their students. They report it to the school counselors and sometimes to the school social worker (if there is one). It is they that may involve DFACS or the police or any outside entity, not the teacher.

If a student comes to class with bruises all over their neck and shoulder, a teacher must report it. If a student comes to class smelling of alcohol, a teacher must report it. If a student comes to class with their eyes rolling to the back of their head, a teacher must report it.

Teachers are not taught to be doctors or psychiatrists, or any such thing. Teachers are only the eyes and ears and nose to report anything suspicious. Teachers do not declare guilt or innocence nor should teachers accuse the parents or anyone.

JustMe - Teachers have no authority to insist that parents put their child on any drug at all. I haven’t a clue where you would get such an outrageous idea.

Teachers may report unusual student behavior or unusual student appearances (sores, cuts, etc.). But again, the teacher’s role is to be eyes, ears, and noses and then to report. That is it.

By HS Teacher

August 9, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

Lee, and JustMe - first of all, in high school, you’d be surprised how much “personal” information your kids tell us! We know how many boyfriends their mothers have, how often their Dad has been in prison, and yes - when the parents get medication prescribed for them to help them focus. So, my point is - many times, we are just reporting what the kids tell us, not anything that we think that we’re qualified to medically assess.

Secondly, why do you assume that if a hyperactive, disruptive student cannot do well in class that the teacher is not delivering stimulating lessons? I have had students who wouldn’t be able to focus and learn if I did backflips across the room on a daily basis. I did get the attempted jab you made at public school teachers. I’m sure that not all of the private school teachers are as animated as you’d like either. They just have the privilege to have the ability to kick out the unruly students. We public school teachers have to attempt to teach whomever shows up on our rosters.

By mom

August 9, 2008 5:44 PM | Link to this

When my son was in 2nd grade it was requested that I come to a meeting. At this meeting was his teacher, the school guidance counselor and me. I was told that my son had ADD and I should take him to the Dr. and ask him to put him on ritalin. I took my son to the Dr. told him about the meeting and he wrote a prescription for ritalin without doing any test or asking me any questions about my son’s behaviour at home. I was shocked.

I tore up the prescription and began a long battle with the school system where they did everything short of just coming right out and saying I was an unfit mother.

When I had my son seen by another dr. she told me that my son did not have ADD but was most likely bored in school due to the fact he had higher than average IQ and the classes did not challange him.

Today, my son is the manager of the company where he works. He never took ritalin or any other drug. Maybe things have changed in the last thirty years. But thirty years ago the teachers DID try to diagnose and some doctors would write a prescription for ritalin based on that diagnoses. Scarey Huh.

By Lee

August 9, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this

“She said parents are getting their pediatricians to prescribe the drug even though there is nothing wrong with their children.”

“If a teacher suspects child abuse, it is their legal responsibility to report it. And, a child taking unnecessary drugs, even prescription, does fall into that category.”

We’re not talking about a kid coming to school with two black eyes and bruises around the neck. We’re talking about what a teacher should do in the case of a parent legally obtaining a prescription from a medical doctor.

The answer is not a damn thing you can do about.

By the way, I personally think the vast majority of the so called ADD/ADHD cases could be controlled by proper diet and exercise.

You take recess out of school, you put a fast food restaurant on every corner, which has a “medium” sugary soda measuring a whopping 32 ounces, kids then go home and play couch potato in front of the TV or video game, and then the American Psychological Association (or whatever it’s called) comes up with a new ailment.

By 30 Year teacher

August 9, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this

Please be advised that there is no definitive medical test for ADD or ADHD. It must be determined by observation and anecdotal evidence only. In my county teachers are given a multiobservation form to complete as are the parents. then and only then, depending on the scores will a doctor prescribe medication. After medication we again asked to observe/evaluate and then the decision is made to continue meds or not.

By Price

August 10, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this

Is it dangerous to take Ridlin? If it is then why are we giving it to any child? If it is not, then why would you call it dangerous?

By catlady

August 10, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

Lee, you are right about teachers having no say in legally obtained prescriptions for children. Teachers do have a say, however, legally MUST say, if a child’s behavior is of concern. If that leads back to a prescription, so be it. If it leads back to a child taking mom’s meds, so be it. If it leads back to a child left along all night and staying up till 3 am, so be it. If it leads to evidence of sexual abuse, so be it. If we see something way out of the ordinary, we have to report what we see, and let others take it from there. Teachers (I assure you) are not generally anxious to take on more than we already have in terms of raising others’ children, but we do have to report, as mandated by law, things that concern us, for monitoring or investigation by others inside or outside the school.

I agree with your statement about the need for proper diet, exercise, and parental investment of time and attention for some kids who are diagnosed with ADHD. “We go running for the shelter of our ‘Mother’s Little Helper’” to quote the Stones. It falls in line with our “instant gratification” that we have all come to expect.

By jim d

August 10, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

*teachers are given a multiobservation form to complete as are the parents. then and only then, depending on the scores will a doctor prescribe *

I see!! Teachers have their panties wadded up because they are not always in control these days. Parents are actually parenting. Gee, go figure.

By Adult HDD

August 10, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

I was diagnosed as an adult with ADD. I took Ritalin without any effect on my ability to focus.

I was then prescribed Adderal without out effect until I eventually reached a very high daily dose. That high dose allowed me to focus better, but it also caused my heart rate and blood pressure to increase dramatically.

I discontinued taking Adderal because it was not worth the risk to my health.

By Jared

August 10, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

I’ve seen this firsthand. Several of my friends have tried this and their grades improved dramatically. Of course, that is no justification for using prescription drugs illegally. And yes, schools push for the use of these drugs all the time.

By 30 Year teacher

August 10, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

Jim d,

Regarding your 10:29 posting…How in the world did you come to that conclusion from the quoted comment?

By Lewis

August 10, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

I strongly doubt this is widespread or backed up by evidence. If anything, parents whose kids actually do need such medications are often impossible to convince to try them. Surveys indicate college students are using their friends’ Ritalin et al, but the evidence on this also indicates those doing so are kids who had a history of ADD or ADHD that was never treated when younger, so now they are treating themselves so to speak. The whole issue of ADD/ADHD and its treatment has become far too clouded by people’s political agendas and the needs of the kids are secondary too much of the time. When guys like Neal Boortz rant and rave about the topic all clarity and objectivity on the matter goes out the window and parents are left feeling guilty if they consider medications as an option to help their children function better (and not just in academics, but socially as well). The science on most of this is pretty solidly established if people will take the time to read it from reputable sources.

By Judge not

August 10, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

Wow, how quick some of you are to judge the often heart-wrenching decisions parents have to make.

My son went through a series of tests, extended behavior modification schedules, diet modifications, curriculum acceleration, etc. for a year (mid-kindergarten to mid-first grade). After all those attempts (and completion of the previously mentioned behavior forms by teachers and parents), the pediatrician who had monitored this process noted that, although she agreed Ritalin was over-requested, we would not ever question the need for insulin in a diabetic child, and that it usually either obviously helped or not after a short period of use.

After a couple of weeks on Ritalin, we asked my son if he thought it made a difference. He said (on his 7th birthday), “I think it helps me to forget.” (Then he explained that it helped him forget some of the things that distracted him before…)

Did it help? Well, every time he didn’t take his medicine at breakfast in elementary school, the teachers noticed immediately and would verify so he could get a dose from the clinic. (As one said, he could spend an hour looking for a pencil or book, wandering around the classroom.)

He has just graduated from high school and leaves this month to attend one of the most prestigious institutions of higher learning in our country. He did NOT get all A’s in school - he’d still lose assignments or projects routinely, because we only gave him Concerta for the school day - but it helped him “forget” the distractions and obviously helped him realize at least some of his potential.

For those of you so certain that ADD is a fictional condition, maybe we need to find a group of students who’ve been “mis-” diagnosed and medicated, give them a “free day” off their meds, and you should try to teach them for even a few hours. (My guess is that would be a top view on YouTube.) Oh, and we won’t give them any sugar or food dyes, either, since that’s their only problem…

Walk a mile in other’s moccasins… because what I regret is the times I locked my child in his room, took away his privileges, screamed at him out of frustration - because I thought his behaviors were all intentional - until I learned that many were beyond his control. I do not regret what apparently many of you consider the “abuse” of giving him medication that made life more comprehensible to him.

By Judge not

August 10, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this

Also, to the point about kids who don’t take meds and “should.”

Based on experiences from being very active in my kids’ schools as a parent AND as a high school educator, sometimes these children HAVE been diagosed with ADD, but one or more of the parents is adamantly opposed to the idea of their child having a “mental deficiency.” Sometimes it seems that the parent identifies highly with the child - and may have compensated for some of the same issues themselves. even if poorly, without medication so they believe that teachers want to “dope” their kids to make their (teachers’) lives easier.

IMHO, if Neal Boortz (and similar misinformation sources) should have a very ADHD grandchild and his daughter would lead him to retract his stance on this and give a balanced view, children would be better served.

By Tired of arrogant doctors

August 10, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

This blog has done one thing and one thing only - it has proven what we’ve always known. There are way too many arrogant doctors out there who think that control life and death. Scary huh

By g.h.

August 10, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

Any “doctor” that would prescribe mood enhancing drugs to a youngster to enable them to have sort sort of classroom advantage, needs his license yanked…quacks abound…and the doc that would do that is cerainly one of them.

By jim d

August 11, 2008 4:32 AM | Link to this

Tired of arrogant doctors,

“This blog has done one thing and one thing only - it has proven what we’ve always known. There are way too many arrogant doctors out there who think that control life and death”

Actually it has done something entirely different. It appears to me that it has provided even more clear evidence of egotistic educators feeling they are superior to doctors and parents, That they are truly the only ones that know what is best for every child.

By Leah

August 11, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

Acutally, jim d, et. al - “egotistic” educators don’t think that they know what is best for every child. But, they do know what is best for the majority of the students in the class. One disruptive child can make or break a class environment. So, if a teacher makes a comment about observed behavior, it doesn’t necessarily mean that they automatically want to get your child medicated. It just means that they are trying to do what’s best for the learning environment.

By jim d

August 11, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

Leah,

So government employees, not trained in medicine, recommending that parents drug their kids, is the answer to a classroom disruption??

Now there’s a formula that’s sure to work!

I personally find it hard to believe that any parent would not already know if their child has a problem focusing.

This particular article is about a teacher who said “parents are getting their pediatricians to prescribe the drug even though there is nothing wrong with their children.”?

C’mon where did this teacher recieve the training necessary to make the determinaation that there was no need for drugs with these kids? What school of medicine did she recieve her doctorate from? NO this is simply another example of government intrusion into our lives.

By catlady

August 11, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

jim d, I think you are off base on this. Teachers are trained specifically NOt to say that a child needs medication. They ARe trained to ask the parents about what they have seen at home, to see if the parents notice the same kinds of things. Many parents think such things as bouncing from one activity to another every three minutes is normal! They have only seen what their one or two or three children do, and have never seen the bigger picture of typical behavior. Now, i am not saying a teacher has never said this (although they shouldn’t have)and I am CERTAINLY not saying they haven’t thought it. I sure have—“It’s him or me!”

I also think you are giving many doctors way too much credit. They see a kid for 10 mintues, tops, and only if they are sick and subdued, and you think they have a clue about that kid? Many parents, unlike those you know, do not take their kids for well-child checkups and do not have doctors who spend any time at all with the kid except to check their ears and throat. Unless they take a thorough case history and do some real observation of the child in something besides their office, they can only go on what the parent tells them, IF the parent tells them.

Teachers can speak cogently about what they have observed for 8 hours a day, 180 days a year, and how it relates to typical, appropriate, age-level, setting-specific behavior.

In all my years of teaching, I have never taught a child who I thought was medicated who did not need to be. (I have taught maybe 7 or 8 total who were medicated in 34 years) I have seen kids whose dosages needed refinement, for sure. I have, over the years, taught less than a dozen that I thought were ripe for evaluation but for whatever reason did not get it. The sad thing is, of those kids of age to graduate NONE of them have. Would their parents have denied them heart medicine if they needed it?

Now, realize I teach in a very small school system where I have been nearly forever, so my experience would not be identical to those of a teacher in a more upper middle class setting, where I think kids taking medicine is more prevalent.

I also think the parents of kids on meds need some skills-coaching which they NEVEr get. THAT I lay squarely on the medical professionals.

By jim d

August 11, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

Cat,

“I also think you are giving many doctors way too much credit.”

Perhaps, but then again perhaps you are giving teachers too much credit. Teachers should be allowed to teach. Isn’t that what I read on these blogs regularly? So teach —— and leave the doctoring to those professionals. Y’all would have a cow if a Dr. were to come into your classroom and attempt to tell you how to teach.

By Leah

August 11, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

jim d - If you would take the time to actually read my 10:16 post, you would have noticed that nowhere did I mention that I ever suggested medicating a student. I am very aware of my gifts, and my skill set - and making medical diagnoses isn’t one of them.

I do happen to know what “normal” behavior is for a high school student. If a teenager cannot sit still for 53 minutes on a consistent basis, there may be a problem. If a teenager cannot answer 3 questions on a test without sharpening his pencil 15 times, (and all of those 3 questions are incorrect), there may be a problem. If a teenager cannot focus on anything unless you are specifically addressing them, there may be a problem.

I say all of this to say that by the time I address the parents about behaviors that I’ve observed, you best believe that I’m basing my concern on years of experience and my genuine concern for my students. I’m far from egotistical. But, I’m really good at what I do, and I haven’t been wrong about my observations yet.

By catlady

August 11, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this

unfortunately we DO have the dr telling us what to do. Also the dentist, accountant, garbage man, car repair man, cleaning lady, “disabled man”, etc. etc, etc. They ALL know how I should teach because they ALL graduated from first grade! about the only ones I don’t have telling me how to teach are the substitute teachers, because they KNOW what is going on :)

By Food for thought

August 11, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this

Something to keep in mind - if your child’s teacher tells you - a diagnosis - your child should be on medication, the school system is now liable for your doctor’s bills and testing costs.

Teachers are trained not to diagnose - they are trained to make observations. There’s a difference. All of you complaining about teachers making those diagnoses, get the school system to pay for the evaluation. That will cure the problem, quickly.

By Tired of arrogant doctors

August 11, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this

jim d Actually it has done something entirely different. It appears to me that it has provided even more clear evidence of egotistic educators feeling they are superior to doctors and parents, That they are truly the only ones that know what is best for every child.

I thought about it and decided you were wrong. (-;

By Tired of arrogant doctors

August 11, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

jim d

Did you get paddled a lot in school?

By loveucatlady

August 11, 2008 7:24 PM | Link to this

Catlady—you are too funny! (I love your posts, though I’m just a lurker most days.)

By catlady

August 11, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

Thought food, that is EXACTLY why teachers would not tell parents their child needs to be medicated. We have to be very careful NOT to say the child “needs” something, or the school system might be liable to pay for it. Besides, a teacher making a medical decision would not be appropriate!

No matter how bad the situation, we cannot TELL a parent things like that. In fact, with some parents we cannot tell them ANYTHING. : p

By the way, sometimes you cannot tell educators anything, either.

By Tired of arrogant doctors

August 11, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

jim d

Y’all would have a cow if a Dr. were to come into your classroom and attempt to tell you how to teach.

Actually it wouldn’t make a teach flinch twice. They are used to “used to be educators” who haven’t been in the classroom in 20 years tell them how to teach. They are used to parents - many of which didn’t even pass high school telling them how to teach. Teachers have so many people who don’t know what they are talking about telling them how to teach that doctors would have to stand in line - and believe me - it’s a long line and one that doctors would never stand for unless someone is waiting to see them.

By jim d

August 12, 2008 4:53 AM | Link to this

Y’all can have as much fun as you wish with my comments, but I can’t help but notice that no one has bothered to address my previous questions regarding this teachers credentials that enable her to make comments regarding a doctor’s credibility and to make the diagnosis that these kids do not need to be medicated.

To reiterate, where did this teacher receive the training necessary to make the determination that there was no need for drugs with these kids? What school of medicine did she receive her doctorate from?

Should her diagonosis be wrong should the school system then be responsible?

By Tired of arrogant doctors

August 12, 2008 7:27 AM | Link to this

jim d

No one is addressing your point because it’s just one teacher. You already know the answer to your question. There will always be teachers who over step their bounds - but there are far more doctors who don’t even believe they have any bounds. That is the the simple truth.

And considering teachers make about a tenth the pay as insurance robbing doctors - I’d say the benefit of the doubt should go to teachers who actually care about their children and don’t just see them as another boat in their backyard.

By jim d

August 12, 2008 7:59 AM | Link to this

Tired,

Such animosity towards doctors is unbecoming in someone belonging to a profession that constantly attempts to compare their professionalism with that of doctors.

By jim d

August 12, 2008 8:03 AM | Link to this

Tired,

one last point—-We CHOOSE our doctors. :-)

By food for thought

August 12, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

one last point—-We CHOOSE our doctors.

No, we don’t - the HMO does.

By Tired of arrogant doctors

August 12, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Based on jim d’s quote I just want to say I am not an educator - I just have a high respect for teachers.

And food for thought - touche

(-;

By Tired of arrogant doctors

August 12, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

professionalism with that of doctors

That’s a good one. Granted - there are doctors out there who try their best - but the vast majority over book their appointments to get the most available bucks. It doesn’t matter how long we have to sit in the waiting room and read 10 year old magazines or watch a boring health show on the television - all that matters is how much money the doctors can get from their patients and the insurance company in the shortest amount of time. And then when we do see the high master we are lucky to get 60 seconds of their time.

And how about this - can you honestly say that doctors don’t push certain medications because of the kick backs they get from drug companies - many times even if the patient doesn’t really need it. So much for “the doctor is the one trained to prescribe” theory - all most do is hock the drugs they are paid to push like a medicine man selling hooch and calling it an “elixer.”

Believe me - there is absolutely NOTHING professional about that.

By catlady

August 12, 2008 5:47 PM | Link to this

jim d, check it out. Most GPs have little or no training or expertise in determining if a kid needs meds. They make their best guess: prescribe, based on symptoms as reported by home and school, and look at the results. Then they adjust and try again. It is not like having strep throat, where there are specific scientific diagnostic tools, which, if used correctly, lead to a reliable diagnosis. Anytime you have to rely on what someone reports, rather than a lab test/ MRI, etc, you are making a hopeful guess. Add to that the “wonders” espoused by our drug companies for their products, and you have a less than sure diagnosis and treatment plan from the medical community in many cases. (I live in an area with no access to pediatricians, who presumably have more training in the specific area, without driving 50-60 miles.)

In addition, as I said before, most doctors who prescribe meds spend very little time, as measured in minutes, with their potential recepients. They also are hardly in a truly unbiased observation situation, since mama has warned the kid “You act up and the doctor will give you a shot.” Or the only time they have seen the kid was when he was prostrate from the flu.

One observation I will make is the descrepencies I have seen between how perfect a parent says their child behaves at home and how they actually behave in public at the grocery, etc. Kinda makes you wonder…..

BTW, I enjoyed driving the truck through the door you left open last evening, but I did understand your real point. Thanks for not threatening to beat me up like some folks would do.

By jim d

August 13, 2008 7:20 AM | Link to this

food for thought

“No, we don’t - the HMO does.”

Only if you are unwise enough to belong to one.

Cat,

would never threaten to beat you up, might offer a light spanking though, if you needed one. :-)