Get Schooled

By DB

July 29, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this

I would tell them that it is assumed that juniors taking the test bring with them the body of learning that they have accumulated for the last three years, and if a significant portion of the test-takers cannot prove that they have mastered that material enough to pass a reasonably simple graduation test, then it makes everyone wonder just how rigorous all those “honor” classes are and start talking about grade inflation.

Of course, the fact that a student would have to ask a question like this, and is unable to extrapolate a reasonable conclusion from the data, is probably indicative of the problem, anyway — no critical thinking!!!!

By Ernest

July 29, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

Part of the objective is to bring greater attention to what is happening in our schools. Those willing to research further will find out that many schools that did not pass AYP are actually doing well in most areas. Unfortunately we have many people that simply look at the ‘pass/fail’ score and make a determination about the school simply on that. There are definite flaws in the evaluation process and hopefully the public will become more engaged by recommending changes.

By Ernest

July 29, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

BTW Laura, what did you think about the straight A student from Coweta County that could not pass the science portion of the HSGT? Her answer was she did not test well????

By jim d

July 29, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

Good question,

I think I’d explain that there’s always a lot to be thankful for if you take time to look for it.

For example—- I am sitting here right now thinking how nice it is that wrinkles don’t hurt .

By thomas

July 29, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

I would tell this HIGH SCHOOL student that his HIGH SCHOOL may not be as bad as some people might say. His school may have been labeled that way because of the performance of a small group of students.

That aside, I wouldn’t give anybody else the same breaks because the circumstances are not the same. I actually looked up the records of several schools that did not make AYP. Just as I suspected, these schools were poor performing in not just a particular subgroup. Some schools were poor performing ACROSS the board- All students, black students, hispanic students, white students, SWD, ELL, and economically disadvantaged.

There is no excuse for it. I am a STRONG advocate of FIRING, not transferring or allowing to take another position in the county, incompetent or ineffective principals. You have elementary schools out there that aren’t doing boo-boo. They have NO EXCUSE. NO EXCUSE. NO EXCUSE.

I give middle schools an ounce of a break because they have to deal with EXTREMELY foul, ill-mannered, and disrespectful youth (mainly minority) and their parents who have turned off toward education and the world. They are unmotivated and quick to anger. I know that. I realize that. Same thing with the high schools. They have a similar problem, although the student behaviors MAY not be as bad as in the middle schools.

I have worked in elementary and middle schools. I am VERY hard on the elementary schools because, having most of my years of educational experience there, I know that the children there are not out of control. And if they are, it is a problem with the adults at the school and not the kids. I also know the importance of building basic foundations and how it impacts a student for life.

I also have seen so many ineffective and lazy teachers taking up a seat and a paycheck. Teachers who ignore (and in some cases even mistreat and damage their students further) students in their class and refuse to teach them. I know of lousy, poor excuse for a human being principals who DO NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING to improve the lot of their school and community. They let (and even take up for) horrid excuses for teachers remain at their schools, and in teaching, without repercussions.

It just makes me very, very angry when I see principals, assistant principals, literacy coaches, academic coaches, media specialists, teachers, and parapros working in the easiest of all teaching environments, with the youngest and most easy to work with of all students screw even this job up. Screw it up and don’t care. In fact, some of these fools even have the NERVE to call themselves not liking the kids and their parents. Go figure. Grown people who hate eight and nine year olds. Ten year olds who are “causing them a problem.” A ten year old causing a 35, 40, or 45 year old woman a problem? Twenty somethings who can’t handle a 7 year old? I’m talking about 50 year old women who REGULARLY call the police to deal with 7,8, 10, and 11 year olds. Lord have mercy.

And you guys want me to make excuses for people who WANTED to work in the easiest setting of all? In fact that’s all they can do (especially the teachers). And they can’t even teach a first grader to read. They can’t even maintain basic order in a second grade classroom. Grown women SCREAMING at little kids, kids running around the room like on some television show.

Ok- I just laughed. I feel better now. Hey, school can be funny sometimes.

Think about it— elementary schools that can’t even make “AYP” and we want to blame middle and high schools. What can they do? They can only deal with what they have been given. Remember the story I told you about the musty grown men in high school using Read 180. Grown men learning to read fifth and sixth grade reading passages. Men with beards, mustaches, and dreadlocks. What can this high school do? What can a middle school do when they have anywhere between 100-150 “special education” students out of a population of 900-1000? Did you know that the vast majority of these were throwaway kids, written off in elementary school (by teachers and principals who really didn’t want to deal with a kid who posed a challenge to them)?

By Joy in Teaching

July 29, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

All students are someone’s child….and all are special. It is easy for teachers and schools to make the excuse that “I can only do what I can with the cards that I have been dealt. If these parents/elementary school teachers/middle school teachers wouldn’t send me such crap, then I know that I can do better.”

In the 1950s, the home was the primary influence upon a child. These days? It’s the media. Until society….and I mean ALL of society…decides that we aren’t going to let our kids slide by any more, we will have failing schools.

By Bionic Blonde

July 29, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

Many students have chosen not to put the effort needed in order to succeed. Others get by by copying from other students without ever really learning anything themselves. Successful students are a product of students who work to learn and teachers who work for their students to learn. Being a teacher for 20 plus years I keep seeing that every few years a magic bullet is found that will solve all our problems—it never does.

Here’s a thought: no student in the public schools should have to take a graduation test unless the governor and the members of the state legislature are able to pass the same graduation tests as students take with at least an average of 80% in order to keep their jobs. This might be an impetus for real education reform instead of the cosmetic that we see so often.

By Tony

July 29, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

Perfect title - An Incomplete Picture. The AYP results allow for the examination of multiple criteria, but missing any one of the 12 - 15 components yields the Does Not Meet AYP status. It does not matter that all other areas are good or even excellent. One small group of students can cause a school to miss the mark.

By HS Teacher Too

July 29, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

I would tell the child to get up and do a jig! He can apply to a super-competitive college, and point out to their admissions folks that he came from a failing school system and “rose above” the ruins to do as well as he did! He’ll get in anywhere and be a hero. Well, that is to say, if colleges really give a d-mn about AYP and all the other garbage.

By jim d

July 29, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

HS Teacher Too,

“apply to a super-competitive college,”——— and “rose above” the ruins to do as well as he did! He’ll get in anywhere”—-

Thanks, I knew there was a silver lining in there somewhere. :-)

By Elsie

July 29, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

Here’s a thought: no student in the public schools should have to take a graduation test unless the governor and the members of the state legislature are able to pass the same graduation tests as students take with at least an average of 80% in order to keep their jobs. This might be an impetus for real education reform instead of the cosmetic that we see so often. Bionic Blonde: Sorry to say that this is probably wishful thinking. I fear that the only result of testing the legislature would be an easier test.

By jim d

July 29, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

Since this one appears to be going nowhere fast, how about this one from Saturday?

Big change for welfarist Sweden: School choice

By catlady

July 29, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

Change of topic: I sure hope the county/state plans to honor my salary, stated on the contract they offered me, or reduce my workload in a commensurate amount. And I get to pick the 3 1/2 percent of the work I won’t do. (My choice: idiot duty before school—unpaid for what amounts to 6 extra days of work beyond the required arrival time—and afterschool meetings that stretch beyond the normal day. Of course, teachers should be paid for extended duty just like coaches are. Then we would see how “necessary” the meetings/duties really are.)

By Gwinnett Educator

July 29, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this

catlady…I am with you ALL the way on that one!

By simon

July 29, 2008 5:51 PM | Link to this

What about making teachers actually work at schools for 40 hours a week - I know they work more than 40 hours every week, but spend 40 hours at their sites of work…

By Tony

July 29, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this

simon - you are way off base on your exaggerated claim about teachers not putting in 40 hours on-site each week. I can assure you that teachers put in well over the 40 hours for which they are paid and many put in 60 hours per week. Please find a real issue.

By ateacher2

July 29, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this

Simon: what are you talking about?? All the teachers at my school are there at least 40 hours a week!!I’ve already been there over 20 (last week) and we don’t go back til Monday! Are you perhaps thinking about the counselors? The ones always going to “meetings” involving starbucks? Or just popping out to grab a bagel?? You must be confusing the two…the teachers are the ones working.

By Martina

July 29, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this

I’m REALLY ticked off by Simon’s comment! I’ve been at school EVERY day for the last week and will be the rest of this week even though we don’t “officially” report (i.e. get paid) until Friday. We have a faculty meeting scheduled for all morning Friday and into the afternoon, a “motivational speaker” from 10:00-11:30 on Monday, and parents come to Meet the Teacher beginning at 12 on Tuesday, so getting anything done Tuesday afternoon will be a waste. Then we’re expected to hit the ground running on Wednesday morning and begin teaching. The only planning,organizing, unpacking time is on my own time right now. Our 40 hours are from 7:30-3:30 and I can guarantee you that the majority of teachers are there MUCH more than that!

By HS Teacher Too

July 29, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

Well, jim d, glad I could make you smile today — but the sad thing is that if the colleges do care (and I’m not sure if they do) about AYP and all this other garbage, they really WOULD look more favorably upon an applicant who “excelled despite all the obstacles thrown his way.”

Besides, you were looking for a silver lining, and you needed something better than the fact that wrinkles don’t hurt!

By HS Teacher Too

July 29, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this

Catlady,

You know, I debated this for a long time, but I ultimately decided that I would just not show for those duties. I had moral issues and wondered if I was being “that person,” but ultimately, I decided that SERVING the duty was unfair, perpetuated an unfair status quo, and I would sleep better taking a stand against it, than begrudginly doing it because I “had” to. (Of course, I taught math — what were they going to do, fire me?!)

One year I had “hall duty” during my prep, because my prep happened to be during a lunch and they needed the entryways to the cafeteria manned. No one else had duties imposed on their prep time if they didn’t have a “lunchtime” prep. I waited every day for someone to “call me” on not showing up. Never happened. So obviously it wasn’t THAT important.

I realize this is off-topic, but since you brought it up I am curious to hear your thoughts. Why do you continue to sevre the duties? Is it out of a sense of obligation? An outright threat to your job? Or is there some other reason?

By simple simon was a pieman

July 29, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this

@simon: a week or so ago you claimed to be a PE teacher. If that’s true, then you know that teachers’ contract hours are not the same as the kids’ hours. Most counties have contract hours of 35 - 37 and 1/2 hours, with the balance to forty being PTA meetings (mandatory in many counties), before and after school conferences, meetings, etc. As many have testified, most work more than the required time (up to and including 40). They’re paid by the day, so don’t give me that crap about getting summers off.

I think you just like being contrary and stirring things up. Yawn.

By rd

July 29, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

ateacher2,

As a counselor, I can assure you that this is not the case for all counselors. Most of the time, I end up at school later than many teachers and barely find 10-15 minutes to eat lunch most days, let alone go to starbucks! Just b/c I’m not a teacher doesn’t mean I’m sitting around relaxing all day long. If your counselors are, then they’re not doing their jobs.

By thomas

July 29, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this

I think a lot of this duty is garbage, too. Most of the time, unless you are doing car, bus, or cafeteria duty, you are really not needed. I remember I working at two schools where the principal wanted teachers at their doors from 7:15 until “school started” at 7:50. That lasted (in both schools) about 1 day. After everybody (the veterans already knew) figured out what the deal was, they went back into their rooms like they were supposed to. I would see a few of the real, old, nasty bulldogs, the old witches who WANTED something to complain, witch, and scream at a kid about out in hallway/at the door “monitoring.” But choose to do that.

By TheBlogger

July 29, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

That student is not judged. What a horribly wrong way to interpret the results.

The high school results are based on one class - that is true. But, it is the same class every year and the make up of that class changes each year. Therefore, it is a good and valid snapshot of how that school is progressing (or not).

Not making AYP one year really does nothing bad to the school, nor does it hurt the school’s reputation. No student should worry. No college would care. All this means is that the school’s administration needs to take a hard look at the numbers and take action to improve.

But, not making AYP in consecutive years means a great deal. That is when everyone should care. The reason is because it means that whatever action the administration took (or not) didn’t help the situation. Bell’s and whistle’s should start going off in the heads of parents and the Board of Education of the school system. Hopefully the school administration is sweating at this point.

After 3 consecutive years (I think) of not making AYP means a huge deal. NCLB actions may be taken in order to try to improve the school. This is when colleges sit up and take notice. This usually when the good teachers start putting in for transfer in mass. This is when the current students/parents in that school should start looking at alternatives.

You see, I would tell that student, the reputation of even a school makes a difference. If it is a good reputation, then a hiccup like not making AYP one year is forgiven. If it is a bad reputation, then it is likely earned by not making AYP in many consecutive years.

I really don’t understand why this is a difficult concept for people to understand….

By 10+ hours a day teacher

July 29, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

Simon - Get a life. If you are indeed a PE teacher, then I guess you are speaking from personal experience. The PE teachers at my school leave daily while I am at required afternoon duty all year (three week rotation cycle of car, bus, & hall - but every single week of the school year for evert teacger my entire grade). One has even made rude comments about that not being his resonsibility. The counslors (one in particular) usually “slip out” before the buses leave as well. I get paid no extra for this. I think ALL faculty (maybe not paras since they get paid so little) should have to wait until buses pull out to leave. On my car duty weeks, I am usually there at least 10 minutes after the buses leave.

Simon, I also doubt you do the amount of grading, preparation, and much more that academic teachers do. My grade level hall way is being waxed this week so I can’t get in to work in my room.

By Jack

July 29, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this

Well, hopefully, after the next president is inaugurated, something will be proposed to replace this disaster known as No Child Left Behind. Sen. Obama says he wants to get rid of it; Sen. McCain says it needs tweaking. The bloody thing needs to be done away with and let teachers do their jobs without this nonsense hanging over their heads.

By jim d

July 30, 2008 6:49 AM | Link to this

HS Teacher Too

At my age believe me when I say it is an extremely good thing that wrinkles are relatively painless. however, the living that brought them on may not have been.

By Old School

July 30, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this

The questioning student should explain to anyone who wants to know that his school’s picture is painted with that broad brush. It is the student’s individual scholastic record that should be considered unless an understanding of the impact made by sub-groups on the reported results is reviewed.

Seems like that could be the basis for a very intelligent admissions interview response.

By Grammar Police

July 30, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

TheBlogger,

“bells” and “whistles”, not “bell’s” and “whistle’s”

Plural, not possessive, my friend.

By simon

July 30, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Boy, we have a bunch of rather sensitive - and overly defensive? - people here.

I didn’t know I had been promoted to be a PE teacher. Unfortunately, I am not.

I also have never claimed that teachers work only 40 (or 37.5hours, or whatever) a week. I am simply suggesting that they spend 40 hours a week on school campuses (I think we can go with 40 since that’s when mandatory PTA meetings can be scheduled - make parents take time off their work if they want to come see teachers). I actually think there are some positive things that can come out such an arrangement, the least of which IS the perception that teachers only work for about 30 hours a week (while kids are at schools). Maybe people will have a different picture of teachers if they see lights in the school building till 8/9 pm everyday.

By D'uh

July 30, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

D’uh simon - I don’t know where you live but the school lights are on in my neigborhood schools ‘til 9:00 at night…and the parking lots have cars.

Maybe you just live in a neighborhood with slackers.

By simple simon is a PE teacher

July 30, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

As a gym teacher (in a public K-8 school), I know that the goal of any gym class is to help students enjoy physical activities and understand their benefits.

@simon: that is your quote from June 30. I knew I didn’t imagine it. And you bet your bottom dollar that we teachers are sensitive about the accusation of not working 40 hours a week.

By simon

July 30, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this

OK, so my English wasn’t perfect, but if you read the whole post, it was talking about what I MIGHT/WOULD do if I WERE a gym teacher.

Again, nowhere in my post I said teachers work only 40 hours. I simply suggested that you let some of the simple minded public that teachers’ work goes beyond the time with kids.

Duh Many of those lights are for community activities. You go to any school parking lot, shortly after the buses are gone, you see an exodus of teachers.

The issue is “perception.” We recently had another discussion about cuts for public colleges/universities. A story that is often told is that legislator got upset because he saw his neighbor, a college professor, mowing his lawn on a weekday morning. He concluded from that observation that college professors aren’t working enough hours - without looking at the professor’s actual workload. Often times those simple minded people - and unfortunately many of our political leaders seem to be - operate with the stereotype that you only work when you are at work.

By simon, simon, simon

July 30, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this

What about making teachers actually work at schools for 40 hours a week - I know they work more than 40 hours every week, but spend 40 hours at their sites of work…

Our point is that we already do - it’s in our contracts: 40 hours a week on campus including student seat time, staff meetings, parent conferences, PTA meetings, etc…BTW, you could read that statement as saying that teachers don’t work 40 hours a week.

You go to any school parking lot, shortly after the buses are gone, you see an exodus of teachers.

Not in elementary you don’t - they usually have another contract hour or so to work. Middle school and high school you might, but their face-to-face time with the students is longer.

So? You go to any Buckhead office park, Midtown skyrise, or downtown parking deck, you’re going to see the same kind of exodus come 4:30-5:00 (and then they all head to the highways at the same time and we have a little phenomena known as rush hour).

By simon

July 30, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

So, what system is that? Where can I see the contract? In any event, I think that is an exception than the norm. Most Elementary and Middle school parking lots are empty by 4pm in many, many places. I suppose they are definitely not contributing to the rush hours where I am/have been.

By simon, oh simon

July 30, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this

I’m not telling you which system because I prefer to remain anonymous, but rest assured it is one of the greater metro area systems.

If you’re that curious, google “georgia teacher contract,” or go to any of the systems’ websites and look up their administrative rules and policies under human resources - most have them posted as well as all salary schedules.

I’m not surprised an elementary school teacher has left by 4 - many start around 7 or 8 AM.

From my county:

The minimum work day for certificated employees will be defined as eight hours and the minimum work week will be defined as forty hours.

By simon, oh simon

July 30, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this

From another large metro county:

*All full time employees of the Board of Education shall work a minimum of 8 hours per day and 40 hours per week.

The principal in each school shall set a schedule within this policy for the time of arrival and departure of all employees assigned to his or her school. Circumstances may sometimes necessitate a longer workday on campus.

The minimum work day for which the base salary is paid shall include such duties as teaching, preparation for teaching, staff meetings, conferences with students and parents, planning conferences, developing IEPs, and other extra class responsibilities.

This policy would not apply to employees employed on an hourly basis for less than 8 hours per day or less than 40 hours per week*

By and yet another!

July 30, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

A minimum of eight hours shall be scheduled for teachers for each day of the adopted calendar.

Need I go on? Or do you believe me yet?

By catlady

July 30, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

HS2. I show up because the principal checks up on us daily to be sure we are doing it. Also I feel an obligation to my fellow sufferers. In the last 11 years I have had morning duty (7:30-8) 9 of those years (the others it was afternoon bus duty). These duties could be given to parapros (who might appreciate the money) and free us to set up, plan, etc. There are two big-picture negatives: we assume liability standing on the curb welcoming kids, and the parents ask why we have time to stand around, since they have heard we are really busy. Surely to God parents can drop their kids off, and the kids walk to the door, about 20 feet, under their parents’ supervision.

By catlady

July 30, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Of the 40 hours we have for preplanning, only 18 will be available for us to prepare our rooms. We know our priorities!

By HS Teacher Too

July 30, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this

Thanks, catlady. I can understand your quandry, and I appreciate at least hearing the “why” (albeit with a heavy sigh on your part, I am sure!) of why you do it.

have you considered putting a complaint in writing, and finding a way to “disclaim” liability for being on the curb? I mean, what if you have a sub? Or another emergency? Surely they function without you sometimes, and what of the liability then? Are you listed as a teacher who assumes liability by being “on duty,” or do you assume the liability by actually showing up? I would guess it is some combination of the two, and putting in writing your complaint might at least help a little bit? (I know, though — it would trade one issue for another and you’d have a principal out to get you. I know how they play the game. It doesn’t mean we have to roll over and take it, though!)

Just playing devil’s advocate, because I hate this b.s. for you!!!

By simon

July 31, 2008 7:02 AM | Link to this

catlady

what do you mean by prepare your rooms? Don’t you think teachers (particularly elem) spend way too much time and effort decorating the classrooms? Clearly the room should be clean and desks need to be arranged, but do we really need all those posters etc.? Even a mild ADHD person will be so disoriented with too much stimuli.