Get Schooled

By jim d

July 23, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

I actually have mixed feeling on child caning in public. I’m rather ok with it as long as its someone else’s kid and they don’t mind. You wanna hit mine? You’d better pack a lunch and be ready to kick my arse first. Truth be told, in 18 years I’ve never had to resort to violence to make my point with him and I damn sure don’t feel anyone else needs to either.

As for the job though? Seems to me that the risk of finding someone that enjoys spanking 13 year old girls could open up a potential for some pretty expensive law suits.

By thomas

July 23, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

Personally I think this Twiggs County decision was done for publicity. I doubt we will see many students actually spanked. What we will see is the Twiggs County Schools talked about on the TV news, conservative talk radio, the internet and possible shows like “The O’Reilly Factor.”

Most people don’t want strangers even talking to their kids, much less touching them. School personnel might as well be strangers to these people. They trust them about as much. In fact, many parents have an animosity towards the school. They certainly aren’t going to give you permission to paddle their child. You can barely give them time out.

Besides— beatings are passe anyway. Children in the 1940’s got beatings. We are far more civilized today.

By buck-fifty

July 23, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

sounds like Gwinnett county needs to be doing some paddling. Did anyone else read the “Gwinnett kids gone wild” story today? Drugs, weapons, assaulting school personnel (including an SRO…how dumb can you get?). Yeah, Gwinnett is great!

By catlady

July 23, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

Instead of spanking (which I personally don’t have any problem with), require the parents to come to the school and deal with problems immediately. Until the child’s parents face consequences, many times the problems continue. Continued problems of a lower level might mean the parents have to attend parenting classes to learn how to discipline. But we should never continue to let 90% of the kids suffer for the behavior of the 10%.

In my experience, most kids WANT to be at school, if only for the food and the social contacts. Event the really bad ones want the social approval they get by showing out. Disrupt that immediately and every time, and most kids will conform their behavior.

There are some kids for whom a good spanking or two would have done wonders. They have been led to believe that they are the ones in charge at their homes, and when they come to school they expect NO ONE to interfere with their kingdoms. Failure to establish respect for authority rests on the parents.

By R. E.

July 23, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

Look around do you really think some of these people could become more violent? Paddling has another effect in that it embarasses the offender sufficiently whereas detention has a right of passage stigma attached to it. Have someone do a 5 year study to see whether it helps or not.

By Twiggs countypaddler

July 23, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

“…I’m rather ok with it as long as its someone else’s kid and they don’t mind. You wanna hit mine? You’d better pack a lunch and be ready to kick my arse first. Truth be told, in 18 years I’ve never had to resort to violence to make my point with him and I damn sure don’t feel anyone else needs to either.”

Internet tough guy huh? You just identified the problem with discipline in schools; its someone else’s child, mine is innocent! Jeez what a maroon.

By jim d

July 23, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

Internet idiot huh?

Never said he was innocent, only that if someone wants to whip him they will have to go through me.

And pay attention to this comment; I’m rather ok with it as long as its someone else’s kid and they don’t mind.

No my friend the problems with schools today has little to do with discipline and more to do with people unable to read a comment with any sort of comprehension.

By Twiggs countypaddler

July 23, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

“Internet idiot huh?”

Hey f#@ktard here in GA we got a saying: “a hit dog will holla.”

By Lisa B.

July 23, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

Several school systems in South Georgia use corporal punishment on a regular basis. In my school, I’ve seen some kids drastically improve their behavior after a spanking. With others, repeated spanking has no effect, and some other consequences are needed. I think spanking has a bigger impact on students who haven’t had much experience with corporal punishment. It seems to me that many or even most parents here would rather the school paddle their children, than send the children home.

Around here, if parents don’t want their kids paddled, the parents are expected to come pick them up. The students receive zeros for work missed, and if it happens often, attendance becomes and issue.

My 14-year-old son has never been paddled at school. My husband and I paddled him a few times when he was little. If my son shouted or cursed at a teacher, or disrupted his classes, for example, I would probably allow him to be paddled. I certainly would not permit that type of behavior from him, and like to think we have raised him to behave himself.

I agree that once students reach a certain age, paddling becomes inappropriate. In a couple of nearby school systems, the teachers still paddle kids. I have to say I’d never do that. It is risky enough when administrators paddle. As a teacher, I’d never paddle, (though my retired school-teacher mother swears by paddling, and was quite handy with a paddle).

By T

July 23, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

Sure, why not? Is the time out method really working? If the parents were involved this discusion wouldn’t be necessary.

By JeremiahWright

July 23, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

Sounds good to me. Just have someone who’s in control to administer the spankings. A few years ago, he was called the disciplinarian, and was also the Vice Principal.

By JeremiahWright

July 23, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

Jim D, you’re the problem. Parents like you don’t want to discipline their kid, but won’t let the schools do it either. I say we kick your kid out of school, and you can home school him. Once you screw up (and your kid can’t pass tests), the state should take him from you.

By dw

July 23, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

I have a friend who’s wife insists on sending their son to “quiet reflection”. However, during one of his sessions he decided that he wasn’t just going to sit there and kept getting up. She eventually spanked him and he stopped getting up. However, shortly after he was released from “quiet reflection” he terrorized the house for the remainder of my visit. I think you should spank kids depending on their level of disobedience. If they are doing normal kid things out of curiosity then you can talk to them and explain why certain things should not be done. If they continue to do those things or other things just because they know it will upset you or someone else. Whoop that Butt!!

By Tommy

July 23, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

most principals are male and actually enjoy “spanking”…. the only good it does is that the principal gets off..

By Dr. Craig Spinks

July 23, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

Jim D. is obviously ignorant of GA Code sections 20-2-730, 20-2-731 and 20-2-732, not to mention the grammatical rules governing written composition.

By Dan

July 23, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

The same people who think spanking is violence.. well I’m not gonna go there. Let’s use the positve spin, any society that perceives spanking violent, has it pretty cushy. (although such perspectives will quickly deteriorate that cushy feeling)

By Maniac is accurate

July 23, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

Sometimes students deserve to be spanked. I was when I deserved it. And then when I got home from school, my parents repeated the procedure. My behavior was much improved and I bear no permanent scars. I would have had no problem with teachers spanking my kids. My wife is on the loony left of this issue in which any corporal punishment at school is tantamount to a felony in her eyes. I don’t get it.

By Vee

July 23, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

jim d, I don’t know what era or city you grew up in, but I grew up in the 70’s and 80’s when paddling was very much accepted in my small-town community. During those “paddling years”, the problems that exist today was virtually nonexistent. Sure, there were fights, but they were very rare. Also, there was never an incident when a student threatened a teacher—physically or verbally—in my elementary school. Nowadays, there are kindergarteners hitting teachers.

It’s great that your child has needed to be spanked or paddled. However, I believe that you would quickly change your mind if you spent one day in a school where timeouts, in-school suspensions, and out-of-school suspensions are a joke. I guarantee you if some children are made an example of by getting their butts whupped one good time, MOST discipline problems would be eliminated.

I am eternally grateful that my parents did not have the attitude that you and so many others have. I can count the number of paddlings I received, and they were mostly for things that would be considered trivial today, like talking without permission. My parents gave ALL of my teachers permission to discipline me because they understood that it takes a village to raise a child. I understood that I could not manipulate my parents and teachers because my parents set that standard. Even though I am an only child who is female, I don’t have the typical spoiled “princess” attitude, ‘cause Momma and Daddy didn’t play that.

Thanks, Momma and Daddy, for allowing my teachers to discipline (paddle) me. You knew I wasn’t perfect, and you didn’t treat me as such. God blessed me with you, and you did an awesome job!

By vickie

July 23, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

Yes i would let the principal paddle my child. Back when my child was in grade school. I signed a form that he could be paddled if he misbehaved. That is the problem nowadays. Parents won’t let the schools displine there child. That is why these kids misbehave the way they do. I am all for it.

By positive discipline

July 23, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

Spanking or paddling is wrong. In my opinion by spanking a child, you are telling a child it’s ok to hurt someone. How about taking away some previlidges like no TV or computer. Yes, Time-out does work, if done right. Consistency is the key in disciplining your child. For example, if a child misbehaves, lies, or hit, a child has to follow the consequences, it’s not like, sometime parents just ignore it. I am a strong believer of positive discipline. Suggestion: What works for my daughter is,it’s the point system; she gets points for making her bed, behaving well, no whinning etc, when she collects enough points, she gets rewards. For instance, 500 points would get her a webkinz etc.

By I say beat the little brats

July 23, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

I’m all for corporal punishment. If the children are ill behaved and ill-mannered little snot-nosed knuckle-draggers, a paddling will do them just fine. And while we’re at it, teachers ought to be able to paddle the “parents” too. It’s their fault that the rest of us have to be subjected to their monster brats in the schools, at the malls or anywhere in public. If they sent children off to school everyday instead of little Osamas, then the schools wouldn’t have to spend so much time parenting and could focus on teaching.

By Twiggs countypaddler

July 23, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Dr. Spinks

Jim D along with his idiot friend Jeff post here excessively and they think that their opinion is the only correct one.

By T

July 23, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

By positive discipline

Good for you and your child. Don’t sign the form. Do you take away points for the children in the classroom whom are misbehaving?

By Let the beating begin!

July 23, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

My uncle in his 70’s told me a story from his childhood:

At family gatherings when all the kids were running around they would tend to get a bit too wild, as kids often do in groups. One of the adults would simply reach out and grab the nearest kid to them and administer a good whippin’ with the admonishment to behave. Didn’t matter whose kid it was or whether they were guilty. The entire group would get the message and calm down.

See, corporal punishment does work!

By keith

July 23, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

schools are not day care centers, their purpose is to educate our children. Disruptive students and those that don’t put out the effort to learn should be removed from the school.

I’m all for paddling IF sanity is used by the administration. Spanking and/or paddling is one of the last resorts and should only be used for when alternate methods of discipline are not effective.

I got spanked plenty as a child and it didn’t teach me to hit others. it taught me that there were consequences for my choices/actions. A lesson many children and adults alike could stand to learn.

By jim d

July 23, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

JeremiahWright,

fraid you’re a day late and a dollar short. He graduated with honors this past spring and has enrolled in one of the historically top colleges in the south.

Like i said, i didn’t need to beat him, he generally was a pretty good kid. I think his mother did a hell of a job in raising a fine young man. (and yes she gets all the credit as a stay at home mom)

By Vee

July 23, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

It’s great that your child has needed to be spanked or paddled.

Sorry, jim d. I meant to say that it is great that your child has NOT needed to be spanked or paddled.

Positive Discipline, there are no TVs in classrooms that can be taken away from children. Also, the kids have to be allowed to use the computers in the classrooms to “enhance” their education. So, what else you got?

All jokes aside, that point-system that you use in your home is a joke in a school. I do agree with positive reinforcements, but kids that act up consistently could care less about getting a “treat” when they probably get treats at home anyway without having to earn them.

I apologize for not answering the blog’s question, but, yes, I would let my children’s principal, teachers, or whoever is in authority at the school to paddle them. As a matter of fact, I teach at my children’s school, and I have given their teachers to spank them if they need it. Unfortunately, they won’t, but they know that they can because I know that they love my children.

By ConcernedParent

July 23, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

I symphathize with the school systems. It’s ashame that they have to put up with the inadequate, inconsistent, irresponsible neglect of some parents. They not only have to teach, inspire, and motivate, but discipline these kids without having any authority or means of enforcing consequences in most cases. I believe this is one of the main reasons for the violence in our school systems. In addition, I believe REQUIRING exercise and PE every year for all kids K-12 would calm inner frustrations, curb violent attitudes, and perhaps eliminate the growing obesity problem that is plaguing our youth today.

By jim d

July 23, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Hey Doc,

While I agree 100% with you on my grammer problems I must disagree with you on being aware of ga. school codes.

i would also point out that back in 77 the supremes heard a case Ingraham v. Wright, 430 U.S. 651, 51 L.Ed.2d 711 (1977) in which they upheld the school punishment policies by a 5-4 vote. They also stated that, to the extent that the force is excessive or unreasonable, educators in most states are subject to possible civil and criminal liability.

So my objections to paddling is merely to protect teachers assets and keep them from being incarcerated.

By CommunistAJC

July 23, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

Let’s see. We have schools with zero discipline and kids are out of control. We first took prayer out, then discipline out, and now we are all wondering what is going on. I say teachers can beat the snot out of kids with a paddle, stick or whatever works. Generations have gotten worse from lack of punishment. It’s only going to get worse and we have lawyers and liberals to blame for it.

By buck-fifty

July 23, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

Yeah, PE and recess would be good. But there isn’t any CRCT or EOCT in those subjects, so no use in “wasting time” do those things…

Besides the same parents that are against any form of “punishment” also see requiring physical exertion on their little chubbies as being punishment. Many kids in high school don’t even bring PE clothes and take a grade cut instead of sweating. Just one more reason they are so fat…along with the crap they eat out of the vending machines at school.

By A. Nony Mouse

July 23, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

I got paddled in school and no one ever told my parent.

I have never had much trouble with my kids as far as school issues go. I will say that I have gone down there many times. The oldest got in a few fights but according to everyone on the scene he was provoked.

The youngest (a girl) is too easy going to get that wild.

Having said that I was very clear from the get go while the oldest was in school that I would be willing to make life a living he!! at school if he were manhandled without a really good reason. I was also willing to come down to the school and deal with him any time he needed it.

No! No paddling in gets personal too quickly. How do we know if we can trust these educators to keep race/ethnicity or even; God help us, sexual perversion out of it.

By Dr. Craig Spinks

July 23, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

Jim D, your concerns pertaining to educators’ incurring criminal and/or civil liabilities for their corporal actions should be allayed by reference to GA Code 20-2-1000 and 20-2-1001.

By jim d

July 23, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

Vee,

I too crew up in a small rural community somewhere in the midwest where paddles we an everyday fixture in our schools. (one that I generally evaded)

Here’s my point though. No one knows my child any better than I do and IF I’ve done my job properly he doesn’t need a paddling. For me to set back and allow someone else to do so would be saying I defer to their “JUDGEMENT” that I had failed in my job. And that my friend will never ever happen when it comes to deferring that to a teacher that only spends a couple of hours a day with him.

Educators (including many on this blog) consistantly comment that parents need to raise their kids. Well friend, you can’t have it both ways. I will raise mine, actually have, and I do not depend upon a teacher to do my job. Pretty simple actually, wouldn’t you say?

By Wanda

July 23, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

If parents would disipline there children at home there would be no reason to have paddling at school. So many parents have let there children run wild at home and so they run wild at school. And then the parents get mad at the school officials for making there children mind. SHAPE UP PARENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!

By jim d

July 23, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

We first took prayer out

DO NOT GO THERE!!!WARNING WILL ROBINSON— WARNING!

By jim d

July 23, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

Scuse me there Doc,

but unless I’m mistaken (and I could be) those code sections deal with the expense of defending a teacher but do not in any fashion mean they can not be arrested and locked up or sued for misconduct or for the use of excessive force when dealing with students in any capacity.

By em

July 23, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Catlady, you bring up a great point and I love your idea. I, too, am not opposed to paddling but maybe the schools should force the parents to deal with their children. If a child cannot abide by the rules set forth by the school then remove the child from the school. Simply have the parents come to the school and take the child home. If the parents lose a few hours of work translating into lost wages, sick time, or vacation maybe then “little Johnny” will be persuaded to comply with the rules of the school. I really don’t know what the answer is but I do know that ISS and OSS don’t seem to be working at my school.

By jim d

July 23, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

EM, problem with cats idea is that too many students missing too many days = not making AYP.

By jim d

July 23, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

Twiggs,

My little Kumquat,

The only opinon, be it correct or not, that matters in the raising of my child is indeed mine.

By Twiggs countypaddler

July 23, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

“The only opinon, be it correct or not, that matters in the raising of my child is indeed mine.”

Opinon? Learn how to spell d23kweed. I had jury duty last week and I had the misfortune of seeing 11 parents plead with the judge not to send their “children” to jail. They probably had the same mindset as you.

By jim d

July 23, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this

Whoopdy F#$%in doo.

1st— you do not know me

2nd— you don’t know my child

3rd— ur still a little Kumquat regardless

By em

July 23, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this

Jim,

Yeah, I know but the way I see it that my school has been a needs improvement schools for the last three or four years so what the heck! :)

By Whack Attack

July 23, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

Interesting responses. As a former high school assistant principal and principal I tried to maintain the belief that one mission of high schools should be to prepare our cherubs for the “real world” after high school. Unfortunately I worked in a district with a couple of knuckleheads on the BOE who cared more about using corporal punishment (CP) as an initial means of behavior modification instead of worrying about preparing students academically for a successful post-secondary life. Using CP in elementary and middle schools may be okay because the effective is immediate, but consider that younger students may be more likely to harbor long-lasting resentment toward teachers, administrators, and the school establishment. High school students also see CP as a status event. My experience is that it’s only when the parent (guardian, or whoever is legally in charge of the student) whips or otherwise physically disciplines the student that the student’s inappropriate behavior is positively modified. Too many times I’ve heard parents say they don’t know what to do with little Johnnie since he turned 14. Some students run with dogs and aspire to spread fleas without any influence by parents. Until public schools are given the opportunity to withdraw students worthy of severe punishment and not be held responsible by the state and NCLB for low graduation rates, administering CP or not makes no difference. Let the parents take care of the problem student and let the student pursue a GED if s/he plans to do anything relatively productive with her/his life. Something to think about…how many businesses, colleges, non-profits, etc. paddle or cane their employees for infractions? That’s what I thought. High school should prepare students for the “real world” by enhancing already taught (in MS and ES???) conflict resolution and positive decision making skills. How disicpline was done in “my day” is irrelevant to what’s happening now. We also had gas under $1.00…

By Tony

July 23, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

Perhaps we should check with those countries scoring higher than us on those famous international tests. If I recall correctly, Singapore is near the top. I don’t think they have many school discipline problems. jim d - perhaps you might do the correlation for us. You carried out a couple of statistical analyses yesterday.

By Twiggs countypaddler

July 23, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this

1st-I don’t want to know you a*******hat

2nd-you and your child can eat a d#$k

3rd-and you are still a busybody

By jim d

July 23, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this

Tony Not into it today but will share a few facts.

1: Paddling and School Shootings

Paddling proponents say: “If we still had paddling, kids wouldn’t be shooting one another in schools.”

Fact: Studies show significantly more fatal school shootings took place in states that allow corporal punishment in schools.

2: Paddling and Violence Against Teachers

Paddling Proponents Say: “Since paddling was taken out of schools, kids have gotten more violent and aggressive toward teachers.”

Facts: Paddling is declining. Violence against teachers is declining in U.S. public schools. The decline of paddling in U.S. public schools is correlated with a decline in violence against teachers.

3: Paddling and ACT Scores and Graduation Rates

Paddling Proponents Say: “Since paddling was taken out of schools, kids have gotten lazy and are falling behind in academics.”

Fact: Non-paddling states have higher ACT scores and higher graduation rates.

4: Paddling and Adult Incarceration

Paddling Proponents Say: “If kids were paddled more, they wouldn’t end up in jail as adults.”

Fact: School corporal punishment is associated with higher incarceration rates of the adult population. Eight of the top ten paddling states are in the top ten states with the highest incarceration rates.

Source

By jim d

July 23, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this

Twiggs,

Say that while he is defending your right to be a dick.

By jim d

July 23, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this

Tony,

Answer me this though.

90+% of discipline problems come form a very small percentage of students, oddly somewhat near the same percentages of students that qualify under IDEA.

IDEA specifically addresses disciplinary issues and how they are to be handled.

Any suggestions on how to change IDEA to make it more effective and still not discriminate against these kids?

By jim d

July 23, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this

Tony,

I highly recommend reading “Positive Discipline” by Jane Nelsen Ed.D.

She makes some strong points.

By Lee

July 23, 2008 8:20 PM | Link to this

Applied in the correct manner, I think spanking has merit in the overall scheme of discipline. I also think there is diminishing returns on spanking as the child gets older.

I also think the biggest mistake parents make is that they will often administer a spanking AFTER they have lost their temper.

That said, I have known a handful of teachers and principals that I would never allow to lay a hand on my child.

Someone earlier mentioned that parents no longer trust teachers and principals and I guess to some extent, that is true.

Schools need to get their own house in order before they can regain that trust.

Besides, who in their right mind would want someone like Jeff to hit their child with a piece of lumber?

By catlady

July 23, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this

Many of the behavior problems are sp ed kids, but many of them are not. Either they are kids who SHOULD be sp ed (but never will now) or they are just mean little jerks.

On IDEA: I think there should be the same rules and consequences for everyone, except maybe low-moderate and severely mentally handicapped kids. Everyone else CAN learn what they cannot do. One way they learn is by having immediate consequences. Many of their parents are either bewildered, overwhelmed, unable, or unwilling to discipline their children at home. Just as the school teaches all kinds of life skills to handicapped kids, they can teach them the great life skill of appropriate behavior. Parents sometimes need some incentive to TEACH their kids how to speak to people, how to act in public, instead of making excuses (handicapped or not).

As it is now, the child’s parents claim IDEA protection for the misbehavior, and it continues. That is not right for the handicapped child, and it certainly is not right for the nonhandicapped.

jim, it is INSANE that a measure of a school providing an adequate education is ATTENDANCE. I have said that for several years. Let’s measure something that the school actually has some control over. We spend waaayy too much time doing parental stuff, like getting kids to school. Schools CHOSE that as a measure for AYP. Incredible.

jim, re your 7 pm post: correlation is not causation. Serving coffee does not cause air turbulance.

re your earlier posts on your son: yes, you do know your child well. But you do not know your child well in a school setting. He may be exactly the same as at home, or he may not. Unless you have been at school all day every day during his 12 recently finished years at school, you can only make an knowledgable guess. (also, remember, you might not be a typical parent).

By catlady

July 23, 2008 8:48 PM | Link to this

Lee, I just squirted Pepsi out of my nose after reading your post. Did not know that was physically possible.

By Leah

July 23, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

I teach in a Gwinnett County high school. I wouldn’t give permission for anyone to paddle my child, nor, would I feel comfortable paddling someone elses. I have honestly never hit my own child after he got out of diapers! Of course, I swatted his hiney when he would go near the stove, but, after that - I could give him the “stink-eye” and he’d straighten right out.

Anyway - I can imagine that those who would actually get paddled would wait for the teacher (or administrator) outside with a gun - especially at my school. I think it would be a better idea to simply expel those students and force the parent to either put them in an alternative school, military school, or Job Corp.

I am opposed to paddling, and I don’t think this fad will last an entire semester.

By Tony

July 23, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

Positive discipline is a much better way to go. I advocate the approach within our school and shun the overuse of punishments. Within our school and since I took over, we have seen over a 20% decline in incidents. I personally believe that the best discipline methods begin with well planned lessons and we work hard to provide them.

Regarding IDEA and discipline (catlady, this responds to your post, too): Not every kid comes to school on an equal playing field. I will not tolerate physical violence towards students or staff, and I will work diligently to prevent classroom disruptions. However, students with disabilities deserve a little extra care and attention. Pity and excuses are not helpful, but modified rules, rewards and consequences are extremely beneficial to improving behavior. Suspensions, paddlings, isolation, and other punitive measures can have little impact. But positive responses to good behavior can make a difference. Don’t get me wrong, I will remove a child from school for disruptions and certainly for violence. IDEA is another example of federal intrusion into our classrooms and some people do not have enough sense to navigate the rules and regulations. I will support all the students in my school to get the very best education possible.

Let me give some examples where we, as adults, allow adjusted rules. I’m learning to play golf this summer. One of the first things I noticed was different tees for different skill levels. My friends would allow me an extra shot if I made a really bad one. However, as my drives improved, they stopped allowing the extra shots.

In baseball, we allow little kids to play the game with extremely modified rules. Juniors play with shorter base runs. Kids are not expected to play by major league rules. There’s flag football. We use these different playing levels for different skill levels. Giving handicapped children a modified set of rules to build their overall skills in behavior is very appropriate.

You are correct when you say a small percentage of students creates 90% of the problems. Some of these parents do everything possible to get their child to behave. Some do nothing. So it is not that easy to blame everything on lack of parenting.

By Dr. Craig Spinks

July 24, 2008 12:47 AM | Link to this

Jim D. you imply inaccurately that corporal punishment necessarily involves “excessive force. Cognizant that an educator’s “whipping a student’s arse”- as you might put it (as opposed to spanking a student’s behind)- would probably be excessive(short of self-defense), GA and US law wisely do not protect teachers and other educators who use unreasonable force to harm children. But these legal systems do sanction the usage of reasonable force in student discipline. By the way, the US Code’s Title 20, Chapter 70, Subsection II, Part C, subpart S, SS6736, like the similar GA Code section, should allay the phobias regarding adverse consequences to themselves arising from student disciplinary activities of all-but-the-wussiest GA teachers and administrators.

By TheBlogger

July 24, 2008 2:10 AM | Link to this

Tony and others - Of course, we all would prefer positive discipline. We all would prefer that our children/students would never misbehave. We all want everyone to hold hands and sing, “Koom-by-Ya” (or however it is spelled).

But that is not the reality for all kids. Anyone that has raised kids (note the plural there) knows that every kid is different with different motivations. Some respond just fine to positive discipline. But, some do not.

Allowing principals the option to paddle makes a huge difference. Some kids, simply by knowing that the pricipal has that option will behave. Other kids have to still test the proverbial waters and meet the paddle first hand. And yet, others won’t behave regardless.

The point is that the more options given to the principals to ensure good behavior and a good learning environment should be the norm, not the exception. Tying the hands of the principal regarding discipline is plain stupid. Why won’t any reasonable adult want to encourage a good learning environment?

If you don’t want your kid paddled (for whatever reason), then fine. You don’t have to sign the slip, or better yet, take your brat out of the school so that others can learn in peace! Otherwise, your little darling sure does need to behave in school, right?

By Jeff

July 24, 2008 6:32 AM | Link to this

So let me get this straight: Y’all attack a guy you KNOW will rarely ever visit this board anymore and somehow think that you are men of ‘honor’?

Seems to me you’re pretty pathetic excuses of scum trying to build yourselves up.

Anyways, on topic:

Most of those advocating ‘positive’ discipline have never had to deal with the ugly facts of life. Me, I’ve BEEN assaulted by your little ‘angels’. And I advocate using WHATEVER force necessary to get it through to those brats that you do NOT hit an adult - whether that adult be your parent, school worker, or some random adult from the community.

As for MY kid, there again, T and I will disagree on this, but my stance above applies even to my own kids. Of course, MY kids are going to know that whatever happens at school is going to be TRIPLED at home. It was the stance of my own parents, and it worked pretty dang well. (Only times I ever got in trouble was for being beat up in ES and not knowing the social mores of MS/HS. NEVER for physical violence.)

On paddling in general: 1) I agree on the diminishing results as kids age. Though I personally was getting spanked until around 16 or so when the situation merited it. 2) I personally try to tailor the style of punishment to the style of the crime, and therefore I advocate paddling primarily for physical offenses but will give the benefit of the doubt to the teacher/administrator - not my kid. 3) Parents, ALWAYS remember the one thing I learned the hard way in my teaching career: KIDS WILL LIE THEIR TAILS OFF if they think it will get them out of trouble or lessen the punishment coming. I know I will remember this with my own kids.

By WFC

July 24, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

JIM D: I agree with your not wanting your child paddled, I don’t want mine paddled either. Requiring parents of disruptive children to attend school for a week and sit next to their “little darlings” is a much more appropriate response.

That being said, your earlier threatening post reminds me of something my Dad used to say to me many years ago: “Son, you are raising my competitive instinct!” Since he was a college football linebacker and in the 101rst Airborne in WWII, I usally paid heed. I’m 6-4, 280 and a former football coach. I’ll spot you my bad left knee and 25 pounds of blubber. Let’s have a go!

By Lisa B.

July 24, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

I agree with Thomas that Positive Discipline is the way to go. I’ve always rewarded and praised appropiate behavior. That works for most kids. However, when positive discipline fails, educators must have other alternatives. Paddling is NOT the first consequence. Students commits numerous infractions to get to that point.

By Lee

July 24, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

“Y’all attack a guy you KNOW will rarely ever visit this board anymore and somehow think that you are men of ‘honor’?”

Took you less than a day to respond. Seems to me you’re still visiting. What you’re probably not able to do now is stay online and blog all day long while at work.

Thanks for responding and proving my point, though…

By jim d

July 24, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this

WFC

A threat? no my friend a promise that if anyone goes after the kid they have to come through me. And that ain’t the bad part.

Ever mess with a momma bear? at 4’11” she’s at the right elevation to do some serious damage. :-)

By Albanyofficemanager

July 25, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

Lee I demoted Jim back down to coffee boy. He thought that he could surf the net all day on company time. Let me know if he posts here during work time.

By TheBlogger

July 25, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

OMG - Let’s puff out our chest a little more in this virtual world. No one here will likely ever meet, so get over it and get over yourselves.

jimd and others - Read the fine print here. It clearly says that the parent can sign a little form if you don’t want your kid paddled. Just sign it and stfu.

The bottom line is that most schools need to gain some measure of control over student behavior. Most parents are certainly not doing their job and so there has to be some authority figure! Allowing the principal to have the possibility of paddling simply gives the schools another tool with which to manage student behavior.

Let’s not beat a dead horse here. Any authority figure can misuse their power. That goes without saying. But why deny a perfectly valid and useful tool when it might - just might - help with student behavior and allow for a better learning environment?

By rick

September 23, 2008 6:58 PM | Link to this

The Schools really have no legal right to hit a student. go to www.thehittingstopshere.com look at the bruises left and kids sent to the hospital with broken bones now tell me it belongs in schools. only 21 states still allow it and united states is only country to allow it . lets grow up. Leave the kids alone,.