Get Schooled

By happy2teach

July 16, 2008 7:11 AM | Link to this

Off topic, I realize and apologize… But with how talk of parental responsibility dominates this blog at times, I thought this article mught be of interest: [http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2008/07/15/43obama_web.html?tmp=1254662806]

By jim d

July 16, 2008 7:51 AM | Link to this

so Laura,

Are you insinuating there may be a wee bit of reverse discrimination going on in public education?

Who’d a guessed?

By catlady

July 16, 2008 8:15 AM | Link to this

My experience has been, when the playing field (m vs f) is more closely level, the boys perceive it as a loss to themselves. There is a great deal of the “silent curriculum” that is oriented to boys. So I have no problem having special outreach to girls to encourage their interests in traditionally male areas of study. Should boys have opportunities that encourage their interests in the arts and literature, for example? Sure, but think of the message they get from society—that they must be gay to be interested in such things. It is a hard row to hoe.

By Jeff

July 16, 2008 8:40 AM | Link to this

Publicly funded programs should be available for ALL, regardless of ANY criteria.

If a private program wants to accept only 8yo girls from Podunk, KY whose last names end in H, they are well within their rights.

My issue here is publicly funded programs or those run using the appearance of public funding - such as meeting at a local university.

By lyncoln

July 16, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this

There’s a related article in the NYTimes right now. It talks about a debate over extending Title IX to science fields.

I agree with catlady that society stereotypes really harm the ability of a boy to go to ‘poetry camp’ or other types of things.

There is a bit of bias. I’m probably wrong, but I don’t recall many news stories about camps for ‘boys only’ offering various programs. Girls only camps for science/technology are pretty common news during the summer because society wants more women in science. I guess we don’t have as much use for boys in poetry and ballet and so we don’t give them those sort of options.

I wish I had had a camp that introduced me to power tools and electrical engineering when I was a kid. Dang that would’ve been fun.

By jim d

July 16, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this

Cat,

While I can’t dispute your personal expierences I think it would serve us well to remember. It can be difficult enough to recognize discrimination as we each go about our daily life routines, inasmuch as we each live in our own skin, unable to clearly see life from the viewpoint of another.

Reverse discrimination, that which is aimed at those traditionally in the majority, can be just as difficult to spot.

By Nixon

July 16, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

If we develop programs for girls are we neglecting boys?

Well, we’ve neglected girls for so long…

By thomas

July 16, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

Here’s a different take on the “boys vs. girls” issue. Last night old time, good ole girl Betty Gray was defeated by new boy on the block David Morgan in the Cobb School Board race. David Margan’s fresh ideas and enthusiam won over Betty Gray’s fossilized nostalgia and excuses. Betty Gray had been on the school board for sixteen years. Her district has just gone plain to h_ll. In all of this time, she had done NOTHING to improve the schools in her district. In fact things got HORRIDLY WORSE under her “leadership.”

It’s time our schools received new, dynamic leadership, boy or girl, instead of ridiculous, sickening excuses for failure.

By shadow7071

July 16, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

Just a few years ago America was fully engaged in a global event called World War II. It was during this time that the men and women of the “Greatest Generation” discovered that they could do things that they never dreamed of doing. Young men from farms who had never driven a car or truck were suddenly trained to fly airplanes. And, young women who didn’t know beans about mechanical stuff were recruited and trained to do the unthinkable jobs of welding, wood shop, machine shop, electrical wiring, riveting and more.

Now, here we are about sixty five years down the road and this generation is trying to prove that women can do mechanical work. That they are just as smart and as capable as men when it comes to mechanical and electrical trades. Guess what? It has already been proven. And, it has continued to be tested and proven ever since WWII.

Look around, women are in almost every pre-WWII, male dominated profession imaginable - engineering, manufacturing, construction, transportation, medicine, science and etc. So, why do we have this continuing focus on equalizing boys and girls, men and women?

The answer lies in our national blind ambition to ensure and guarantee that everyone is equal. Our blind ambition ignores the history of our accomplishments (e.g., Rosie the Riveter) but focuses on segregating our country into special interest groups and then trying to statistically level the power and influence of each group. And then we go one step further, we try to re-distribute power and influence to the groups we deem more deserving.

Today in America we are in a period of economic instability and uncertainty. We are in trouble. We need to be coming together. We need to be working together. Both boys and girls need to be encouraged to study math and science. We need both boys and girls to major in engineering and science. We need to send the message to our boys and girls that they are both equally capable of doing any job they want to pursue and that we need them to succeed. And finally, we need to get rid of our destructive, divisive and misguided blind ambition that is tearing our nation apart.

By luvs2teach

July 16, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

Food for thought from the girl science geek - me - sometimes it’s nice to be able to be yourself (a girl science geek) without boys around. It’s not always about competition or equal opportunity. Some girls might be interested in pursuing these activities, but won’t because they’e afraid they’ll be the only girl.

Do they encourage girls to pursue these careers? Maybe - I think what they offer is a way to try them out in a safer environment.

Where are the programs for boys? Any mixed gender program about science or building will attract boys ANYWAY. Trust me, I’ve done enough science and robotics camps to know - getting boys to enroll is not a problem.

Sadly, I think cat is right about society’s perception for boys going to an art or poetry camp - that being said, if a boy is interested, he will participate - often they’ll be happy to have other kids around with the same interests (not always accepted by their peers at school, no matter what their sexual orientation is).

By shadow7071

July 16, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

Luvs and Cat

The challenge is to encourage and develop renaissance boys and girls, men and women as opposed to developing geeks, wimps, jocks and etc.

I see too much focus on pigeon-holing people. We encourage and direct children to be certain things while shunning and ignoring other vital aspects of development.

I’m a scientist and engineer. I’m deeply interested in scientific breakthrough and engineering development. But I’m also interested in music, art and architecture. I enjoy literature and yes poetry. I like to write. I’m interested in politics, economics and culture. I’m a huge sports fan.

When I was in school I knew that I was going to be a scientist and an engineer. My teachers helped me reach my goal but they also encouraged and guided me to develop and appreciate all aspects of life.

My advice to you as teaches is to develop the whole person.

By luvs2teach

July 16, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

shadow7071 - I was just trying to give my perspective as a “girl into science” why those camps might be beneficial - it’s not always to make more scientists, but to give girls a safe avenue by which to pursue interests. Girls, particularly once they hit 11 or 12 and start noticing boys, become very self-conscious - it sucks, to put it less than politely. they often will choose not to pursue something they are interested in if it makes them less desirable to boys - and it doesn’t matter what it is - science, academics, leadership, etc. Sad, but true. Before I was a teacher, I was a Girl Scout leader, and I was active in promoting science for girls, both with my troop and within the metro area’s activities. I am biased on this one, I’ll admit.

Anyway, for me personally, I am a science teacher, and former scientist, but my first love is foreign languages and cultures. I tell my kids (personal and profesional) that I’m a little bit interested in a lot of things, but I’m a master at very little! I’m great at trivia, though, lol. Anyway, one of the reasons kids like my class is because they know they’ll get more than just science in it (they also know they can get me off-track with good questions, so I have to be careful how far I let a “non-GPS” topic run, ha ha).

(side note - I’ve made the play-offs the last 4 years as the only girl in my fantasy football league - won once, too! The boys in my class LOVE to talk football with me - I feel like I’m being a good role model for the girls in that regard).

Life’s too interesting to stay on one track.

By catlady

July 16, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

Boys can be interested in poetry or literature, as long as it does not interfere with their “real manliness.” Or as long as they have another, more manly interest to counterbalance it, and then they are called “Renaisance (sp?) Men.” For girls, if they were interested in science or math they used to be called “d*s”. And that was on a good day.

I am very glad for programs that nurture girls in these (generally speaking) HIGHER PAYING fields. Public or private, I think we have to find ways to facilitate folks in finding their niche—male or female. Some of you regular bloggers may remember that both my daughters went to women’s colleges, both pursuing science. The big catalyst for both of those was encouragement from important teachers and the ability to interact with encouraging scientists LONG BEFORE they went to college. I can assure you, (altho both my parents had BS degrees, and my dad was an EE from Duke) I had no such overt encouragement to pursue science or technology or engineering, no special summer programs available. And when I started college, many of the most elite colleges were just starting to admit women—only 38 years ago! Even in the AJC YESTERDAY, female college students were called “coeds” in one article!

Part of the problem is assumptions. We assume that a boy would be interested in science and technology, and we assume that a girl would not. The camps are not widely enough available to put a dent in our assumptions.

I would recommend anyone interested in this subject read “In the Company of Educated Women”, a history of women in higher ed, or “Learning Like a Girl”, a look at establishing a high school for young women, or just about any of the research (easily available) by the AAUW on the pervasive benefit that boys seem to receive in terms of encouragement/attention in the K-12 classroom, especially in middle school.

Here is the thing: we define ourselves as one of the “in group” (ie, male or white or rich or suburban or educated) or one of the Others. Wouldn’t it be better to acknowledge who we ARE, instead of who we ARE NOT?

By catlady

July 16, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

The best thing I have read other than the AAUW reports (and an easy read) is a book called “Schoolgirls” by Peggy Orenstein. It is more of an ethnographical study, and while it does not focus on gender bias in the classroom, it has several chapters that might be eye-opening to those who do not see a bias in traditional educational curricula or practices.

shadow, yes women stepped into traditionally male roles during WW2, and then by a great majority slunk back into the kitchen after their men came home. There is a difference between knowing a field is open to you and actually going into the field. And, coincidentally, these fields that young women seem hesitant to enter are frequently the highest paid.

jim d, thank you for your thoughtful reply of 8:59.

By jim d

July 16, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

Cat,

You’re welcome.

By Ick

July 16, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

There’s recently been multiple headlines that girls have indeed surpassed boys educationally in Math/Science areas.

I have a son, so I’m biased.

But, when he was younger, I had trouble finding interesting male characters in books. In newer children’s books, there’s far too many girl centric stories. Disappointing. I can’t think of one smart, quirky, geeky, or otherwise interesting leading boy character. I guess there’s always Harry Potter.

By catlady

July 16, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

Funny because so many books have girl characters in the helpless female role, getting saved by the boy (if they appear at all).

By luvs2teach

July 16, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

Hey remember Encyclopedia Brown? I loved those books. If you have a son who likes sports, Matt Christopher books are good.

By Old School

July 16, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this

Okay, one more time…I was allowed to take shop class in high school in 1967-68 after my dad got tired of hearing me gripe about having to take home ec (required for girls back then.) I majored in Industrial Arts Education at Ga Southern and graduated in 1972 only to find that jobs for female shop teachers were extremely scarce and not one principal I interviewed with thought a female could do the job. In 1973 our school opened a new vocational center and a Comprehensive High School began. I came on board in 1975, teaching Industrial Arts and drafting, leaving behind a wonderful mapping job.

At the end of my first year as a shop teacher, I asked one of my male students (there were only 3 females in my entire class load that year) what he thought about a female shop teacher. His reply, “I guess it would be alright.” Those boys regarded me exactly as my Ga Southern classmates (all male) had…I was someone who knew what she was doing and was pretty darn good at it.

Through the years I was asked to be the face of non-traditional education. I’ve seen many females get into and succeed in lots of male dominated areas. Frankly folks, there’s room for everyone in every career and we are limited only by ourselves and what we allow others to visit upon us.

I have built furniture, a house, and more with my own two hands. I am as comfortable at a table saw as I am a drafting table. I’ve rebuilt an engine and reared to amazing daughters.

I am totally pro any program that challenges any child to break through stereotypes and artificial obstacles that still impose limits based on gender. The biggest obstacle (outside of archaic mindsets) is probably parents who think any career that involves working with your hands or getting dirty is completely beneath their little darlings who are destined for universities regardless of their own desires.

By Ick

July 16, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

catlady - That sounds more like the Hollywood stereotype.

luvs2teach - He hates sports and detective stories, because they’re not quirky, unusual, or interesting to him. But, he’s not lacking in books these days, since he’s much older and more subject matters are acceptable.

By catlady

July 16, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

Check it out (heh heh). Actually, there has been some improvement in the last 15 years. Now, if you have a library full of only recent books….. But I look at textbooks a lot, and there are still a lot of boy-hero stories. I also look at what my students are reading. There are certainly more heroines available than when I was young, but I think it is funny that now that things are more equal, it appears that there are not “enough” boys as heroes.

I hope your son finds things to read that pique his interest. From age 5 to 10, my son loved things related to disasters (non-fiction). After that, he was taken by things mechanical to read about.

By jim d

July 16, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

A very wise man commented to me today that “GetSchooled” is just numbingly boring. I agree. All those many “Dear Abby” wannabe posts by the same DeKalb County teacher. Lonely…I’m Mr. Lonely. Hey, the AJC called it right in the Clayton County school board races…the AJC Editorial Board endorsed two (2) of the seven (7) winners…Baker/Askew in the 6th (easy pick…a real no-brainer here) and Goree eeked ought a few more votes than Davis in the 3rd (another easy pick). Maybe Cynthia Tucker and Maureen Downey should have tossed the names up in the air. They would have been luckier. Wow, they have a real “feel” for Clayco. Hey, jim d, gotta run. Oh, I am jim d. I am going over to Lisa B.’s house tonight, and we will be joined by Mom3Boys who just left her hubby and three sons to shack up with catlady because she wants to hang out with her at East Andrews in Buckhead and try to pick up young professional men who are always horny at this bar which has a certain wannable L. A. (Lower Alabama) feel which conjures up scenes of bailed hay in Pittsview, Alabama which is slightly north of Clio, Alabama, the home of three former Alabama governors, including George Wallace and Big Jim Folsom, two colorful characters in their own right, which is saying a lot, considering the many characters who have graced the state of Alabama, including Coach Bear Bryant and Bullet Bob Armstrong and two other coloful wrestlers of the early 1970s, Bill Bowman and Joe Turner, whom the Kingfish used to announce as a wrestling ring announcer. I could probably string this sentence along for a few more hours, but I have a life and must go now. Tchau.

By Old School

July 16, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

lck, try Pat McManus (I think that’s how you spell his name). He writes hilarious tales about the outdoors, hunting, fishing, growing up, and friends like Rancid Crabtree and Crazy Eddie Muldoon.

I’m not at all outdoorsy but I LOVE his stories. I even keep copies in my high school lab for my students to read and have gotten them hooked on his writing as well…girls and guys. A couple of favorite stories are “A Good Deed Gone Wrong” and “My First Deer and Welcome to It.”

By Peter Piqued

July 16, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

jim d, I thoroughly enjoyed your comments about Pittsview, Alabama. I grew up ten minutes from there. Comparing it to East Andrews really piqued my interests. My son only wanted to read books about Pittsview. So, I had to write fourteen books about Pittsview. I was running out of things to write about until Sister Gravie Mae Ward’s hairy armpits were exposed. (Sister Susie Mae Sweatbellie confided in me that Gravie Mae even had ticks in her hairy armpits.) My son loved this book, especially the part about Brother Gutfoot’s flatulence problem.

By shadow7071

July 16, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

old school - You’re last paragraph is precisely on target. Young people don’t want to work with their hands or in what they consider a dirty environment.

The manufacturing sector is suffering from this thinking. They can’t attract enough people to fill skilled jobs. Even young engineers don’t want to work in manufacturing. There is a stigma about manual (or perceived manual) work.

I vote for a return to industrial arts.

By The Ugandan Giant Kamala

July 16, 2008 8:21 PM | Link to this

“We are the world, we are the children, we are the ones who make a day, so let’s start giving…” Hey, friends, I am writing from Uganda. My city, Ulibiandi, is sister city to Pittsview. When I wrestle in U. S., I actually know Bob Armstrong. He live in Marietta at the time, but he always talk about Alabama. He like Roll Tide. I like Bo. Bo know. War Damn Eagle from Uganda!

This is a parody. If your imaginative and verbals are not up to par, do not try to compete with this professional wordsmith.

By BullyBellboy

July 16, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this

You’re not the real Kamala. You left out words like “better” in your song. “Verbals”? What is this? Did you mean to say “verbal skills,” you fake wordsmith? What books would you recommend to my 14 year old son? The Idiot (by Fyodor D.) or All The King’s Men (by Robert Penn W.) or North and South (by John J.) or You Know You’re A Redneck If…(by Jeff F.)? I recommend War & Peace (by Leo T.). See what happened to Jimmy C. when he read this book at an early age. He became one of our worst/best Presidents, depending on your view. Oh, don’t forget The Audacity of Hope by John McAbel.

By John

July 17, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

The shop I work at has about 70 employees. Two of them are under 30, most are counting down the days till retirement. Young people aren’t encouraged to learn a trade. We’ve had other 18 to 25 years olds work here over the years but most don’t care for or can’t handle physical labor.

By Ick

July 17, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Where’s the American Boy bistro?

And many of the trades learned in highschool don’t pay enough for today’s costs. Not all, of course, but many of them.

By popcornular

July 21, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

Elementary school teachers are primarily females who were the bottom feeders in college. It is without a doubt the easiest degree to obtain, therefore the bar is set really low to begin with. They know little math and science, and tend to discipline boys simply for being boys. The are fed all this crap in education school about how females are discriminated against etc etc, and being female themselves, swallow it hook line and sinker. The end result is an atmosphere in which the best way to be a good little boy is to be a good little girl.