Get Schooled

By Start early

July 7, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this

Fulton County has offered a senior math class, Mathematical Money Management, that covers this information. http://www.fultonschools.org/dept/ curriculum/ CurrGuides/Math/index.htm Many students would not take this class, however, especially on a serious college-prep schedule.

As mentioned, personal finance is also included in the economics course, but it is a very small component. IMHO, senior year of high school is too late for introduction.

When I worked in elementary school (and my own boys were at that level), basic information on the concepts of wants and needs was reviewed beginning in kindergarten. IMHO, we need to reinforce that *every” year, because therein lies much of the problem. You NEED food, but you WANT to go out to eat pizza. You NEED clothing, but you WANT Gap, A&F, etc.

Much as we teach health every year, and students (and adults) KNOW how we SHOULD (and shouldn’t) eat (and exercise), the application of this knowledge is obviously less consistent. (Many adults also obviously have problems discerning wants from needs; why would we have so many people “upside down” in car loans otherwise?)

Just this morning (in the wee hours), I was listening to a consumer advice show on the radio and thought, “middle and high school students ought to hear some of these real-world situations.” Maybe if they heard the woman who’s trying to buy a house with credit card debt and no savings for a down payment (on a $70K salary), who’s also having a baby in a few months but hasn’t seriously considered the cost of child care…they’d see how what they’re learning might be useful in their adult lives.

By holdingAJCaccountable

July 7, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this

Why is it no one ever talks about the grammar and spelling of administrators? And while we’re at it, when we talk about “quality” why is it we also never talk about administrators?

Maybe it’s because those who want to talk about “teacher quality” don’t want to look at themselves in the mirror.

By WFC

July 7, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

I taught personal finance as part of the required economics course for seniors. It fit quite well in the microeconomic part of the course.

I’m retired now from teaching after 31 years. Hoever, I’m NOT retired from teaching my son about personal finance. He will be taking economics at Northview high school as a senior this year. Here is what he already knows:

• He understands credit ratings. He knows my three rating scores from the three rating services. He understands when to use credit and when to avoid it.

• He understands mortgages and equity. He understands using one’s home as a wealth-building asset. He has a basic knowledge of the real estate market and how to use it to build and preserve wealth.

• He has been well-schooled in the financial mistakes his dad made in his twenties and early thirties. He is also aware of his dad’s good decisions between ages 35-58. He understands that his dad’s current status (retired at 56, nice 5 bedroom- 3 bath home, totally owned Mercedes convertible) is NOT an accident of chance. He understands that he cannot reasonably expect these things at age 25.

• My son understand his responsibiity for his own financial well-being. He’s been in on several meetings with “financial advisors.” He understands both the opportunities and pitfalls of the stock market.

• He understands the importance of “living within one’s means.” He’s well aware of the concept of “deferred gratificaion.”

• He understands the magic of “compound interest.”

• He understands the concept of “opportunity costs.”

There is a lot more but you get the picture. It is the parents’ responsibility to educate children on these matters and more. Anything the school does is pure gravy.

By Ernest

July 7, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

Obviously most of this type of instruction should come from home however given many adults are having financial challenge themselves, it makes you wonder what kind of lessons the children would learn. There would be great value of this in some type of ‘life skills’ training. If this could be incorporated as part of the regular math and social studies instruction, it would also help. It always comes down to the never ending question, what part of the current lesson plan would you eliminate to add something like this in….

By Jason

July 7, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

WFC, you and your son are clearly awesome.

By Lisa B.

July 7, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this

When I taught fifth grade math, students would often ask, “Why do I have to know this?” I explained that students need to understand math and finance to avoid getting “ripped off.” I illustrated my point with examples of how much buyers really pay for “rent to own” items. My students were always amazed. Personal finance also fits into Social Studies. Students are interested in money, and personal finance fits well into classes across grade levels.

By Start early

July 7, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Junior Achievement offers experiential programs, which may be conducted during or after schools by volunteers, in areas such as financial literacy and work readiness. This is an excellent opportunity to integrate the local business community into the life of area schools. http://www.georgia.ja.org/programs/

By j

July 7, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

Teaching finance is first and foremost the parent’s responsibility. But I do think many students would benefit if schools made a mandatory finance class. It may be a good investment of tax dollars to teach children how to avoid common financial pitfalls, in addition to what parents teach. It may help curtail credit crises. But, still we are dealing with humans who still grow up in a materialistic society and who will probably make mistakes in early adulthood. I wasn’t taught anything by my parents about the stock market, annuities, CDs, etc. They mainly emphasized getting good grades in school no matter what. So today, I have little clue as to how the stock market works. But, I’m working to change all that-on my own.

By Momteach

July 7, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

In my school, teachers serve as advisors and we have the responsibility of scheduling courses for our students. I make sure that all of my students take a Personal Finance course. It is not required but I push it to the parents that show up for conferences. If I don’t meet the parents, I sign them up anyway.

By Start early

July 7, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

holdingAJC, Apparently you missed the June 13th Get Schooled edition. Read it if you want to see administrator quality addressed - and the reaction of some administrators to the issue. Unfortunately, it was probably “preaching to the choir” with them, because they’re at reading the blog and generally post reasoned, empathic comments :)

By chocoholic

July 7, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

As a high school math teacher, I wish schools did more to teach finance. Maybe the new curriculum will help, but from what I’ve learned of it at the high school level, it’s much more heavy on upper level algebra, trig, and pre-cal than it is on finance math. Maybe the younger grades do a better job?!? I had an 12th grade student just last year bring me her checkbook and ask me how to fill out a check to pay for her yearbook - how does a child get to the 12th grade and not know that basic skill? Then I reviewed what I teach to college prep students 9 -12 and there is no place for how to write a check or more importantly balance a checkbook or anything like that. It’s a shame that they may be able to graph a quadratic but not balanace a checkbook - we take for granted that they’ll figure it out on their own, but they may not.

By Jodi

July 7, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

Its great that so many parents are teaching their kids finance, but going back to the original blog question - most people need to learn finance themselves.

I didn’t learn until college, and some parents today still haven’t learned.

By Concerned parent

July 7, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

The required high school integrated math courses begin this fall and all students in Georgia are required to take four years of integrated math. The DOE’s stated goal is to have EVERY student in the state complete the equivalent of Pre-Calculus/Trig by graduation and be prepared to take college calculus. This utopian goal seems unrealistic- especially given the dismal performance of the 8th graders in math this year. It makes more sense to offer students a choice of one year of personal math, business math, whatever you want to call it. This might be a better tool for success in the real world.

By jim d

July 7, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

My what a loaded question. One that requires much more than just speaking about schools teaching economics. We must also address many of the social issues we face today as well as the job market and where it is in this economy. Here’s a few of my thoughts

Reorganizing, downsizing, consolidating, and streamlining are more than just a few buzzwords that describe today‘s job market. For millions of people, they have meant just one thing: loss of their jobs.

Sure there still plenty of good positions open for those people who are prepared. Only many of these jobs aren’t the same as before. They reflect a changing world of work, a world in which companies are flatter and less bureaucratic, knowledge is more valued than longevity, and global competitive pressure has broken down the lifelong-employment contract of yesterday. So what our schools need to do is change to meet the demand to provide the youth of today the necessary skills that will be required of them in a ever changing job market. If we fail in this endeavor we condemn kids to much the same fate their parents are now experiencing.

But even these efforts will be in vain unless we first tackle some pressing social issues which include welfare, immigration, national policy abroad, and how to deal with the current energy crisis. We must also address issues affecting at-risk and out-of-school youth and the public policy response to their needs. These are young people who are largely undereducated and unskilled, who are not currently in school or in jobs and are seeking opportunities to further their education and prepare for the workforce. They are the “The Forgotten Half,” those approximately ten million 18 - 24 year-olds who neither complete high school nor continue their formal education beyond high school graduation. These young people must be taught to compete in a global economy if we are to survive as a world power.—— No, as a free nation.

Sorry for the rant—-Blog on!

By FCM

July 7, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

It is not the school’s job to pick up where the parents are lacking…Yes, finance could be discussed in Math, History, World Affairs….but Personal Finance outside the Eco class…NO, NO, NO. Trust me, all we need is the upper middle class to stop shelling out for every dang thing that little junior whines for…I see pleanty of that up where I live. The parents give junior everything, they mortgage the house a few times….heck I married one of those.

My child told me the other day she likes shopping the discount stores because they have cool clothes she likes. I have told the kids more than once: sorry cannot do, I don’t have the money for it (be it bubble gum machine or trips to WDW). This week they did a bake sale. I gave each child $1.50. When I picked them up they started on how they needed more money…I asked where the $1.50 was…they had spent it….actual words to child “Well then it’s gone. It is called living on a budget…you had $1.50 to spend and ‘budget’ for your treats. Talk to me next time.” They never complained just went home. Do the same thing with carnival rides, tokens at bowling alley etc….you get $x when its gone…its gone….that is the best teaching of all!

By lovemy4kids

July 7, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

Money management has two components, computational and spiritual. It is the role of the schools to teach the former. The public schools must make sure that all students can handle basic arithmetic (make change, balance a checkbook without a computer, etc.) and have early exposure to business mathematics. My home school 6th grade math text includes a unit on Business Mathematics. Topics include income, taxes, budgeting, checking accounts, borrowing money, investments, and insurance. These topics are repeated and expanded upon through Pre-Algebra.

It is the job of the parents to teach their children the moral and spiritual foundations of personal economics. In our home, the Bible is the final authority and text book for this pursuit. After all, the ability to manage money well is really a matter of self control. The Bible says that the fruit of the Spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, and SELF CONTROL. Just saying “no” to drugs, out of wedlock pregnancies, running up credit card debt for wants, or buying homes and cars one cannot afford solves 99% of all financial traps. The Good Book also tells us that “he who will not work, shall not eat”. Parents must train their children early to do chores around the home and later help them acquire practical skills for “first jobs”. As a teenager, my eldest was paid weekly to clean my entire house. This experience contributed to his ability to get a first job when his buddies were not able to. He now is paying for his college and car insurance and will graduate debt free. He is also saving up for a down-payment on a home or condo so he can take advantage of the “Fire Sale” housing prices. Economic downturns can be a boon for those who have managed their money well and have cash.

In addition to self-control, an equally important moral imperative is to have the spirit of giving. This is the nature of God, demonstrated in the sacrificial giving of the Son for our unmerited salvation. We are commanded to “… give, and it shall be given unto you.” There will always be those in need, and it is our duty to help them as we are able, pointing them to the One who makes us able. If most people did this, the need for most of our wasteful government programs would go away. Direct help is often the most economical help. Giving more and more of this responsibility to the Government erodes our freedoms and ability to self-govern. My spouse and I have practiced these Biblical principles from the beginning of our marriage, and we have managed to own a home, and have all the necessities to support and home school four children on one income (which has not risen since 9/11!) with only a very small mortgage debt. If anyone is interested in learning more about these money management principles, Crown Financial Ministries, or a Dave Ramsey seminar would be a good place to start.

By JJ

July 7, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

It’s the parents responsibility to teach about finance. My daughter has been balancing MY checkbook for 7 years now. I taught her to do it when she was 10.

I have also taught her about credit cards and how scary they can be. I don’t have any (except two debit cards), and live on a cash only basis.

I’ve taught her to “pay herself first”, and while she is still living at home, to put as much as possible into a savings account. She is working part time this summer, and at least 1/2 of her paycheck gets put into her savings account. Once she gets out into the real world, I’ve told her to pay herself at least 20% of her paycheck first, before any other bills.

She is also learning how to budget. VERY IMPORTANT LESSON. She is also being taught that if she really wants some big ticket item, she needs to save for it, like a car. I’m trying to teach her that she should not go into debt, how hard it is to get out of debt.

If you have a credit card, only put on it what you can pay off the following month.

Kids today are given everything, and not made to work for it. Not in my house. If she wants something, she needs to budget and save.

By jim d

July 7, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

“KIDS TODAY ARE GIVEN EVERYTHING”

ROTFLOL!!!

First time I heard that was about 50 years ago. I guess the more things change the more they remain the same.

Thanks for the laugh JJ.

By lovemy4kids

July 7, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

Money management has two components, computational and spiritual. It is the role of the schools to teach the former. The public schools must make sure that all students can handle basic arithmetic (make change, balance a checkbook without a computer, etc.) and have early exposure to business mathematics. My home school 6th grade math text includes a unit on Business Mathematics. Topics include income, taxes, budgeting, checking accounts, borrowing money, investments, and insurance. These topics are repeated and expanded upon through Pre-Algebra.

It is the job of the parents to teach their children the moral and spiritual foundations of personal economics. In our home, the Bible is the final authority and text book for this pursuit. After all, the ability to manage money well is really a matter of self control. The Bible says that the fruit of the Spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, and SELF CONTROL. Just saying “no” to drugs, out of wedlock pregnancies, running up credit card debt for wants, or buying homes and cars one cannot afford solves 99% of all financial traps. The Good Book also tells us that “he who will not work, shall not eat”. Parents must train their children early to do chores around the home and later help them acquire practical skills for “first jobs”. As a teenager, my eldest was paid weekly to clean my entire house. This experience contributed to his ability to get a first job when his buddies were not able to. He now is paying for his college and car insurance and will graduate debt free. He is also saving up for a down-payment on a home or condo so he can take advantage of the “Fire Sale” housing prices. Economic downturns can be a boon for those who have managed their money well and have cash.

In addition to self-control, an equally important moral imperative is to have the spirit of giving. This is the nature of God, demonstrated in the sacrificial giving of the Son for our unmerited salvation. We are commanded to “… give, and it shall be given unto you.” There will always be those in need, and it is our duty to help them as we are able, pointing them to the One who makes us able. If most people did this, the need for most of our wasteful government programs would go away. Direct help is often the most economical help. Giving more and more of this responsibility to the Government erodes our freedoms and ability to self-govern. My spouse and I have practiced these Biblical principles from the beginning of our marriage, and we have managed to own a home, and have all the necessities to support and home school four children on one income (which has not risen since 9/11!) with only a very small mortgage debt. If anyone is interested in learning more about these money management principles, Crown Financial Ministries, or a Dave Ramsey seminar would be a good place to start.

By Duluth

July 7, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

lovemy4kids That has to be the funniest post I have ever read. Do you really consult the bible when paying bills?

The only thing God has to do with my finances, is “Oh god where did my money go?” I practice that at the end of every month.

By TheBlogger

July 7, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

Should schools teach personal finance? Yes

Should schools teach auto mechanics? Yes

Should schools teach computer technology? Yes

Should schools teach wood working? Yes

Should schools teach personal hygene? Yes

Should schools teach proper manners? Yes

Should schools provide breakfest and lunch? Yes

Should schools….. Yes

Let’s just take the kids totally away from parents and turn them over to schools. Why not? What the are the parents doing these days?????

Schools today cannot properly teach the basics as clearly proven by the miserable CRCT, EOCT, and GHSGT scores. So then, why the heck does anyone want to add on to the list of responsibilities of schools?

By Gwinnett Educator

July 7, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

I agree that it should taught at home first. Anything that the schools add will be gravy.

I am teaching my soon to 2 yr old about saving now. I am going to take a much different approach that my parents did with us. My parents are excellent with money and it shows, but they never “explained” anything to us growing up. We always was told that we needed to save our money…or dont get a credit card until you get a full time job, etc. (which wasnt the best advice) I never understood about finance charges, interest rates, etc until I had already dug that hole. My mom commented recently about my struggles and I told her how things came about. Although we can not go back and undo the past, I just didn’t know.

I remember the first time I looked at the finance charges on one of my cards and I was literally SICK! I have now converted over to cash only (debit card and checks). I save all $1 bills and quarters in one container the other coins goes in my daughter’s bank. I still have a way to go in paying off the debt, but it is my goal to not have my daughter make the same mistakes.

By JJ

July 7, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Gwinnett Educator Good for you.

I owe nothing, I have no debt (other than the mortgage, and household monthly bills).

It’s a nice feeling not to have credit card debt looming overhead for the rest of your life!!!

Each Friday I clean out my wallet. I take the debit receipts and do my on-line banking. I take all the cash out, and everything under a $5.00 bill is taken out and put in the coin jar. (Saving for a trip to Europe in two years.)

Bank of America offers their “savings” program by rounding up each purchase on your debit card to the next dollar, and transferring the “rounded up” amount to a savings account. For example, when I get gas in the vehicle, I pump $50.12, BOA rounds it up to $51, and 88 cents gets transferred into savings. Not alot, but over time, it really adds up. Just don’t touch it!!!!!

By Gwinnett Educator

July 7, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

JJ- I have had someone else tell me that. I am going to check into with wachovia. I really like that concept.

By Lee

July 7, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this

I would be all for it if they would bring in a financial expert (CPA, banker, financial advisor) to teach the class. Otherwise, forget it.

But, I agree, every little bit helps. If schools could just teach students that 0% financing really isn’t and the basic concepts of compound interest, they would be ahead of half the population out there today.

But hey, the folks who “Bad Credit, slow credit, no problem. Let us put you into the luxury car you deserve!!” gotta eat too.

By TheBlogger

July 7, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

JJ and Gwinnett Educator - Be careful with that “promotion” by banks. The percentage interest you earn on those accounts are extremely low (usually).

I would suggest taking the money out of that account and buy a 3 month CD (or the like). It would earn more interest. You could still use that account, but don’t let your money just sit there and loose out to inflation.

By catlady

July 7, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

What I find troubling: our system allows a local bank to come in and provide banking for our students. They train the best and brightest fifth graders as assistant tellers. On the plus: the kids seee up close how interest works. Also, they learn to fill out deposit tickets. My problem comes with promoting one particular bank. Anyone else do this?

By new mom

July 8, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

Catlady,

I used to work in a bank that conducted a similar program (perhaps the same bank/school system where you work!) This program helps teach 3-5 graders about saving, and allows them to open special savings accounts at the bank without a minimum deposit.

The program is wildly successful—certainly not in terms of dollars, but in terms of educating children and their families. Yes, promoting of the bank is inevitable, since that’s where the accounts are opened and the employees are from, but the bank donates hundreds of volunteer hours a month by sending employees, during bank/school hours, to collect the students’ deposits. To me, a little good press and recognition is well deserved.

This bank helps to educate children about money management and actually gives them real life tools to do so. And as a former teacher, I wish that more school systems would encourage businesses from their community to participate in the process. I think that we (society, not you!) have a tendancy to complain that our kids don’t know anything about the real world, yet we shelter them from it!

By RStoll

July 8, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

I work for Junior Achievement of Georgia, and one of our main focuses is teaching students of all ages about personal financial literacy. Our high school program was designed in conjunction with the National Endowment for Financial Education (NEFE). Our turn-key curriculum makes it easy for concerned community members to teach these valuable skills to our students at an early age. To learn more about our organization and how you can become involved, visit www.georgia.ja.org

By Stacey

July 8, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

When I was in high school, juniors and seniors could take a one semester elective class called “Life Studies” that taught things such as check writing, balancing a checkbook, budgeting, filling out job applications, etc. I didn’t take the class but my sister did. I remember her having an ongoing project where drew a “mock life” from a hat and had to budget according to their occupation, income, pay schedules, etc. I remember she got a B+ and was on cloud nine because even though she always tried her very best, she was a C student, at best.

By Allison

July 8, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this

Instead of teaching personal finance, we now are required to teach economics. Many people think that is a new name for the old personal finace class. Go to this website and look at the GPS standards for economics http://www.georgiastandards.org/socialstudies.aspxand you will see that there is very little personal finance. when you look at the standards, you have to wonder if this is a graduate economics class? When you see the scores for the EOCT in economics, it is obvious that the content is a little ridiculous. What is even more ridiculous is that even though I have never had an economics class, I am highly qualified to teach it according to the state of Georgia because I have a broad field social studies certification.