Get Schooled

By catlady

July 4, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

I have seen some pretty sorry spelling and grammar coming out of the school at one level or another. It bothers me, as it does if I catch myself with a typo when I send notes home in Spanish. Folks need to take the time to proof and use spellcheck if they need to!

What bothers me more is teachers and administrators, including CO staff, who use poor spoken grammar. Our speech teacher, for example, says “have went” all the time. So does the assistant superintendent. Our front desk, meet-the-public secretary says, “you will find him in the liberrry”. Then we’ve got “chimbley” and “forrester” children.

Of course, I nevre macke misteaks!

By Gwinnett Educator

July 4, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

Catlady..your something else…….LOL.. I meant to do that.

Of course everyone makes mistakes and LORD KNOWS I proofread a million times when I type any kind of communication for my parents. I did make the mistake of printing out a weekend homework sheet another teacher made for the grade level with OUT proofreading. BIG MISTAKE! I was so embarrassed. My students came in letting me know of the errors, I had many notes from parents about things not making sense. (It was a grammar assignment). I immediately typed a letter of apology to my parents and said NEVER again.

By Ernest

July 4, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

I’m not going to throw any stones because I know I’ve had my share of typo’s, mostly due to not reviewing what I’m submitting. I’m also somewhat forgiving with typo’s in emails, especially if you can tell the writer ‘fat fingered’ the incorrect key with the typo. I do agree with Catlady, I’m less forgiving with teachers that use improper grammar with spoken communication. Sometimes it is due to regional dialects (no disrespect but I have challenges listening to some from the state of Louisiana) but as a parent you wonder how it might impact your child.

My all time favorite occurs on Sundays when you hear the announcement, “Will the ur-shers please come fowards wit the collection plates”… :)

Have a safe and happy 4th everyone!!!

By Math Parent

July 4, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

It is difficult for a parent or student to respect a teacher when there is a history of notes and assignments with poor spelling and grammar. I am shocked at the poor verbal and written communication skills of many teachers.

Yes, it does reflect on the perceived quality of the teacher. Proofreading is essential. Teachers, if you are unsure of your writing abilities, ask a colleague to review your handouts.

By Lisa B.

July 4, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

I heavily edit typed letters sent to parents. For the little, quickly hand-scribbled notes in student agendas/planners, etc., I focus more on legibility. My grammar and spelling are normally good, but when in a rush to write a quick note, mistakes happen. I hope parents focus more on the fact that I try hard to communicate frequently. I am more forgiving of spelling errors on my son’s teachers’ handwritten notes than in a typed letter.

By Tony

July 4, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

Teachers, above all others, should present themselves with the very best written communication. I always have someone proof my writing before it is sent home and I expect teachers to do the same. If it is brought to my attention that a staff member sends home materials that bring a poor reflection to the school, I will meet with the teacher to review and discuss their newletters, notes and assignments. Having a colleague proofread prior to copying helps everyone look better.

Now, as for this newspaper criticizing teachers for poor spelling, grammar and usage of English, this is like the pot calling the kettle black. There are so many errors in the AJC on any given day that you have no business offering criticism to teachers. Please, “…let the one without sin cast the first stone.”

By jackieO

July 4, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

I take it we are not talking about typos here, but genuine errors in usage and spelling of standard American English. The answer to your question: Can you respect a teacher with poor grammar? is a resounding NO. And let me add, that in a school where large numbers of students are learning English as a 2nd language, it is imperative that teachers both know and use standard American English in writing and speaking. One of my principals had so many notes from teachers riddled with errors brought to his attention by parents that he began to require that all notes going home, formal AND informal, had to go across his secretary’s desk. [She was a real stickler for correct grammar and usage.

By jackieO

July 4, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

I think there is a little known and rarely used part of NCLB that requires all ESOL teachers pass a test to prove that they know and use standard American English BEFORE being employed . I did read that one administrator decided to requre that test even for those already teaching ESOL …somewhere near Boston , I think, and ALL of the ESOL teachers failed the test.
Somewhere along the path leading to an educated citizenry, America lost its way and became mired in politically correctness and diversity up to the eyeballs!

By dragonlady

July 4, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

As a long time English teacher, I have been complaining about this for years. College teachers of freshman English have told me that the grammar and punctuation of their honor students is deplorable. You can hear terrible grammar errors written into scripts of prime time television, where a character might say, for instance, “between you and I.” I scream at the tv, but it seems to do no good. :-) It is a sign of general malaise in our country toward grammatical standards. Why should teachers be any different? It’s sad, but true. I have students failing my classes every year because they refuse to learn to punctuate. Spell check helps a great deal, but those grammar programs are not correct in many instances. And don’t get me started on vocabulary.
Have a happy and safe 4th, everyone!

By thomas

July 4, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

I agree that usage of correct grammar and, particularly spelling, is important. But when I see people blowing a gasket over a teacher’s small errors, it makes me wonder why they are so critical.

One of the things that has turned me off toward education is the hostile and cynical attitude many parents and people in the community take towards teachers and schools in general. A teacher’s (or other school staff members’) small error on a written note home certainly isn’t the worst thing you have to complain about.

With all the other more SUBSTANTIAL issues facing our schools today, a grammar, spelling, or punctuation error from a teacher is the least of my worries. Little garbage like this is what small people look for to discredit someone. I could care less about something as trivial as that. I am more concerned about if the person is providing good instruction and the caring, conducive environment necessary for a child’s growth and development.

That’s another reason why I left the “regular” classroom a few years ago. I was sick and tired of dealing with a_holes- excuse me, I meant parents. It wasn’t just me and my dealings with parents, BUT LOOKING AT WHAT MY COLLEAGUES HAD TO GO THROUGH DEALING WITH THESE PEOPLE ON A DAILY BASIS. People who should have been trying to HELP teachers, not cause and look for problems. The thing I don’t understand is that with all the problems in this world, some people (parents) want to look for the most trivial things to gripe, complain, and seek fault with. When I hear people make little trifling complaints about teachers, I want to tell them “why don’t you do the job of a teacher since you are so perfect and think you can do a better job.”

If you really want something to complain about, I can give you something to complain about. I’m talking about real issues. Real things that some teachers have done that are far, far worst than some bad grammar and spelling. I could tell you some things I have seen this year from teachers and administrators that border on criminal. Seriously.

So on one hand, I see parents and other folks b_tching about some silly note home with a error in it (supposedly, as if THEY would know the difference, WITH ALL THE LETTERS/NOTES I’VE SEEN FROM PARENTS THAT WERE FILLED WITH ERRORS) and on the other I see bad stuff people really are doing and we don’t hear a word about it.

By On both sides

July 4, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

Thomas, I think you’re missing the point, as most others have noted that it is a pattern of mistakes that concern them (as parents and as educators), not an error. My older son had a teacher in second grade who would send home weekly updates on which the students would correct the multiple mistakes on the bus on the way home. (Luckily they’d had a first grade teacher who knew grammar, punctuation, and spelling.) I’ve been in classrooms on curriculum nights (and in the faculty lunchroom) listening to teachers whose grammar was horrible and thought, “glad s/he’s not teaching English.” As we move to reading and writing across the curriculum, it’s even more important that teachers in ALL content areas are able to write and speak correctly - modeling appropriate behavior for their students.

JackieO, That “highly qualified” element of NCLB requires that teachers teaching ESOL (Language Arts) in high schools who don’t have certification in high school English are required to pass the GACE in Georgia (content certification), whether they’re already teaching ESOL or applying for a new job. Some teachers have had to move to different schools (e.g., elementary) because they couldn’t pass the test. Sad, eh? BTW, “There is no limit to the number of times you may take any test that you have not passed.” http://www.gace.nesinc.com/GA2_passingrequirements.asp

By Martina

July 4, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

As an educator, I agree with On Both Sides that the pattern of mistakes is more indicative of a teacher’s ability than the occasional mistake which we ALL make in the hurry of responding and communicating with parents. That said, if you have a teacher who consistently uses poor grammar in spoken or written communication, it should be handled by administration. In a business situation, a supervisor would not tolerate a person who could not communicate effectively with clients, and we should be held to the same standard.

By Lee

July 4, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

It’s a matter of perception. Teachers want to be thought of as “professionals”. Well, a teacher who FREQUENTLY uses incorrect grammar, sentence structure, and mispelled words makes me wonder about their competence.

My all time favorite “aw s**” moment occured when I sent a report off including several company vice presidents on the distribution list. I proofread that report numerous times and even had a co-worker read it. I scanned through the final report (the one that had been sent out) and noticed that I had omitted the final “s” on a-s-s-e-s-s. Yep, spell check will let that one go right on through.

By jim d

July 5, 2008 6:39 AM | Link to this

TPYO’s and grammerification errors by teachers don’t bother me much. BUT when I have to listen to a school super (are you listening alvin?) butchering the spoken language it just kinda sets me off.

By WFC

July 5, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

My spelling and grammar are decent, though not perfect. However, I graduated second in my college senior class and have a measured IQ of 142. Critics may have their say, if and only if, their record approaches that. Otherwise, STFU.

By catlady

July 5, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

For the third time in the last couple of weeks a headline on the ajc.com has a mistake! “Megabu win’s elite race”. Now, if professional proofers can’t catch them, I am willing to cut teachers some slack. As others have said, it is the frequent misspellings, misuse of homonyms, and nonexistent subject/verb agreement that get me down. And I HATE poorly spoken English from supposedly educated folks!

By Teacher, Too

July 5, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

This is a top-five topic that does set me off! I teach Language Arts (wish it was still called English). When I first began teaching many, many years ago, I was told not to use direct instruction to teach grammar in isolation. In fact, that was the beginning of the “whole language” movement. Look where “whole language” got us- twenty years’ worth of students who can’t write cohesive sentences, with correct spelling, punctuation, and grammar.

Grammar must be taught to students! I stand firm in this belief. Once students know the parts of speech (and really know them and how they function), then a teacher can focus on teaching sentence structure and cohesiveness.

Finally, I am embarrassed by my colleagues who can’t or won’t speak standard English. I am weary of the line, “Well, I’m not an English teacher, so it doesn’t matter.”

Umm, didn’t you go to college? Don’t you want to be considered a professional? Why should you be held to a lesser standard when it comes to communicating with students, parents, and admins?

I know e-mail and blogs are supposed to be informal methods of communication; however, both forms of writing are still a reflection of the writer. I have much less regard for people’s postings when they are riddled with basic grammar, spelling, capitalization, and punctuation mistakes.

By HS Teacher Too

July 5, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

WFC, ?!?! I fail to see how IQ or class rank relate to chronically poor grammar or chronically failing to proofread. (The obvious answer of low IQ correlating to poor grammar notwithstanding.)

I agree with the many earlier posters: no one is asking for perfection or even for always checking for parallel structure or split infinitives. But patterns of misspellings, incorrectly using “they’re,” “their,” and “there,” or “you’re” and “your” — and my personal favorite of putting an apostrophe every time a word ends in “s” — are simply unacceptable and unprofessional.

I’ve been known to circle the mistakes and forward them off to the school principals. (Note: not principles!)

Teacher Too: I am weary of the line, “Well, I’m not an English teacher, so it doesn’t matter.”

May I add a hearty “amen!!!” please? That line is another of my favorite complaints. Consider that I teach (well, taught) math and math teachers seem to wear their illiteracy as a badge of honor, and there have been countless days when I wanted to beat my head against a wall. What’s wrong with being, and acting, intelligent? You don’t have to be perfect, but for God’s sake, people, be literate!

By catlady

July 5, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

T2: I hate the ones who say, “I’m not A English teacher” even more!

Your direct instruction comment reminds me of the first year I taught. A little boy (5 years old) came in every day and said, “Mrs. _, I brung my lunch.” And I would say, “Oh, Gary, you BROUGHT your lunch today!” He would nod. I had been told in college if you correctly repeated it to the child, they would “get” it. Well, day #180 came, and Gary greeted me with the same cheerful announcement. I gently took him by the shoulders, got right in his face, and said, “Gary, say I BROUGHT MY LUNCH!!” He looked at me, wide-eyed, and repeated it correctly. I don’t know what happened the next year, but I have a feeling that he started buying school lunch! :)

By WFC

July 6, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

HS TEACHER TOO: I’m certainly not defending poor grammar and bad spelling. However, I believe that a high class rank in a tough major (pure history, not “social studies education”) and having a high IQ are much more important to teaching/learning success than a fetish for minor miscues. Sure, teachers should take care in writing notes to parents. It is also true that teaching “professionals” should have secretarial support in the manner of business “executives.” My notes to parents are usually dashed off between classes or at lunch. E-mail has increased the parental demand for “up to the minute” reports beyond all reason. I give out my home phone number and am always am willing to communicate. Also, unlike many Fulton County administrators, I don’t pronounce the word “ask” as “ax.”

By WFC

July 6, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

HS TEACHER TOO: I’m certainly not defending poor grammar and bad spelling. However, I believe that a high class rank in a tough major (pure history, not “social studies education”) and having a high IQ are much more important to teaching/learning success than a fetish for minor miscues. Sure, teachers should take care in writing notes to parents. It is also true that teaching “professionals” should have secretarial support in the manner of business “executives.” My notes to parents are usually dashed off between classes or at lunch. E-mail has increased the parental demand for “up to the minute” reports beyond all reason. I give out my home phone number and am always am willing to communicate. Also, unlike many Fulton County administrators, I don’t pronounce the word “ask” as “ax.”

By mom3boys

July 6, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

I find this one (or something similar) at least monthly in school newsletters: Everyone must do their best. Note to administrators: if you want the pay for your position, please learn all you can about pronoun-antecedent agreement. One other thing(that drives me nuts): please remember that periods and commas are little; therefore, they cannot be “outside” alone. They belong “inside” the quotation marks.

By catlady

July 6, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

mom3 (sounds like insanity to me. One boy was enough :) What about parentheses? Does the period go inside on those, too? (She said hypothetically.) I like to hear good ways of remembering things (if I can remember them long enough).

By OldSchool

July 6, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this

Catlady, I highly recommend 2 wonderful books: “The Transitive Vampire” and “The Well-Tempered Sentence.” I’ve had my copies for a number of years so they may be out of print.

.(Would someone check to see if I’ve done the periods, commas, colons, and parentheses correctly? I’ve thrown in extras just in case.).

By mom3boys

July 6, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

No, Catlady. The period ends the sentence and what is inside the parenthesis needs to be inside the period…can think of no mnemonic device for that one, though!

By 30YearsIn

July 7, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

As a classroom teacher for 31 years, and a student of “old school” English instruction, poor grammar sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard to my ears. I always correct my students when they use improper English, and have done my best to teach correct punctuation. I always proofread my letters to parents several times to avoid embarrassing mistakes. It drives me nuts if something manages to slip past, as I hate to send home letters with mistakes.

By AlreadySheared

July 7, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

Rarely is the question asked, is our children learning.

By jim d

July 7, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

what do you expect?

“Reading is the basics for all learning.” George W Bush,—-‘All Things Considered’, National Public Radio, 28th March 2000

By Ugh

July 9, 2008 8:01 AM | Link to this

My 8th grader’s English teacher last year as so appalling that we left the school (Henderson) and district (Dekalb). The grammar sent home left me cringing. This is the lady teaching my kid grammar? They’re kidding, right? Right?! And the teacher conference, I was further shocked by her aggression, defensiveness, and even her gold front teeth. She was a veteran teacher, too.

So, beware. Bad grammar can be just the TIP of the iceberg.

By Ugh

July 9, 2008 8:06 AM | Link to this

Thomas, It’s not simple minor errors. It’s big screaming errors like basic subject-verb disagreement.

By iteachlit

July 9, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

As a Language Arts teacher I am always correcting students’ grammar. My own children call me the “Grammar Police.” Poor grammar just grates on my nerves! I work with many teachers who use “should have went,” “he/she done,’” “it don’t matter,” “ain’t,” etc. I am especially embarrassed in my team conferences with parents. I feel strongly that it reflects poorly on our entire faculty. We are the educated ones, and yet many of my fellow teachers speak like a bunch of hicks! Any ideas of how we can tactfully mention this to them??