Get Schooled

By catlady

July 3, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

I think uniforms would be good in a school where students routinely dress in bizarre, attention-seeking ways. In my school, there are actually few problems with student dress. However, I was in Atlanta recently and saw what people have been talking about: Four young men, maybe 13 years old, walking down the sidewalk with the belt level of their jeans below their butt cheeks (boxers hanging out). I had never seen that before. We chew our boys up if their pants are ANY below the waist. If they plead that their pants are too loose, we have rope we cut to tie the pants up. I have also seen girls exiting some of the northern suburban high schools tricked out like w*******. In schools like that, uniforms would be useful. At my school, we keep clothes (clean but really dorky) for students to change into if they are out of line (such as straps too thin) and there is such embarrassment in having to wear “counselor clothes”, that there are rarely repeat offenders. Students also have the option of calling home, but few take it. I presume they altered their clothing after leaving home and don’t want mom to know, or maybe think mom would be annoyed at having to leave work to get appropriate clothes.

By catlady

July 3, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

Our problem is more often silly, dangerous, or ill-fitting shoes.

By jim d

July 3, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

just one comment on this one since we’ve blogged it to death in the past.

For every report or study that indicates uniforms improve education I can site two that say NOT

Now —— y’all have fun—ya hear!

By PJ

July 3, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

I’m assuming that the stilettos some of our middle school girls wear would not be a part of the uniform. And please tell me I won’t have to see a couple of Tootsie Roll Pops with the invitation “Lick ‘Em” stretched across the well-endowed chest of the wearer.

By jackieO

July 3, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

As jimd points out, there is research that comes out on both sides of this issue. HOWEVER, that is true of almost all research….and again, I will point out what every basic statistics student learns the first day of class:CORRELATION DOES NOT MEAN CAUSATION! The faculty and staff of each school 9and maybe the parents] can assess whether or not uniforms improve conditions at their school.

By Joyce

July 3, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

When I taught at a school with uniforms, the change in atmosphere, and sometimes behavior, was noticeable on the out-of-uniform days. That being said, I laughed out loud when I read about this idea. I think that Clayton, with all of the other problems that have been going on, should put this issue way down on their priority list!

By thomas

July 3, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

I am all for uniforms— for the teachers and the students. I used to teach elementray school. In my years of teaching grades 1-5, I have seen students wear some disgusting things. Elementary students. Girls wearing shirts and pants with provocative statements that I will not repeat here. Microscopic shorts and skirts. Normal sized boys wearing size 48 pants. (But I have to admit— what came out of their mouths was worst).

The teachers need to wear uniforms, too. Some of those women dressed down as well. You had teachers wearing flip flops, tight jeans, t-shirts, low cut tops, etc. Some of these women women SUPER short skirts and capris. Some of the younger teachers would come in and I would be like “XXX XXXX!!!!!!!!” Thank God they wearing teaching second and third graders because Jesus Christ, if they had been in middle or high school, these girls would have been mauled.

By happy2teach

July 3, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

In my school? Yes, yes, please God yes. Without a doubt yes. This year, now please!

The improvement might not show up in test scores right away, but I’m more interested in helping them be better people anyway.

By luvs2teach

July 3, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

My son’s elementary was a charter, and we parents voted for optional uniforms. It only affected him in 5th grade. He wore the uniforms M-Th and F they wore what they wanted - I don’t know if the lighter atmosphere on Friday was due to no uniform or it being Friday! Anyway, I liked it - my son didn’t care - it was easier for us both shopping and laundry-wise.

When I was in South America, in all of the public schools I visited the students were uniforms - some were just T-shirts with the school’s name on them. It wasn’t a big deal to them.

As a teacher, I’d wear a uniform - I’ve worked jobs where I’ve had them before (McDonald’s and the USMC, lol - as well as others), and it does save money on clothes and makes things easier in the morning. Even jobs where I didn’t have a uniform per se, there was a dress code - in the lab I could wear what I wanted but I had a lab coat over it all, and I had to wear closed-toe shoes.

I don’t think it’s a big deal, but I also don’t think it’s the cure to all a school’s problems.

By Ernest

July 3, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

As JimD indicated, we’ve blogged this to death in the past but why not again. Every school system has some type of ‘dress’ code however it is not enforced. When ‘well meaning’ stakeholders’ become concerned about the attire of the students their kiddies go to school with, a ‘top down’ request for a ‘uniform’ normally comes. Unless there is cooperation from a majority and the minority opinion is not allowed to dominate the conversation, it can work.

Does a uniform policy impact instruction? One can argue it can if it means teachers don’t have to spend time addressing the ‘dress’ of their students thus having more time for instruction. If the school did not have issues with inappropriate attire, the uniform policy probably has no impact on instruction.

Everyone is aware of what happened to Dr. Brown when he wanted to implement a uniform policy for DeKalb several years ago. He thought he had a mandate along with support of the BoE for doing this. While there were many that supported it, the minority opinion is what everyone remembers from that episode. Ironically, Dr. Brown recently implement a uniform policy in his school district in Texas and it has been received well. In fairness, he did this after serving as the super for two years rather than immediately after he was hired.

By mom3boys

July 3, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

It would be wonderful to be able to stop wasting instructional time having to send little Suzy to the office to call mom to bring her appropriate clothes. MOTHERS: WHAT ARE YOU THINKING??? Why on earth do you allow your daughters to come to school exposing flesh and looking like a trollop?? How do you expect the boys to learn anything having to deal w/ all that flesh?? Don’t say they should ignore it…they are middle schoolers…they cannot ignore it!!! AND THE BOYS….now they fasten their pants below their butt. It’s as if they forgot to pull up their pants after using the bathroom!!! C’mon parents!!!! Why should teachers have to police this???? GIVE ME UNIFORMS!!!!! PLEASE OH PLEASE!!!

By Gwinnett Educator

July 3, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

My school in Dekalb tried uniforms before Johnny Brown came in and mandated it. For my school, it was very much needed. I remember having a 5 yr old stop DEAD SMACK in the middle of all his playing and come stand next to me on the play ground. After a few moments, my para asked me if I put him in time out. I said no. I asked the child what was wrong. His response? “my shoes getting dirty”. When I taught 4th grade at the same school, the boys would sit at the table during lunch to check out the shoes of the students coming in. Sbhools like this…uniforms help!

And yes, a lot of teachers need them too.

By SET

July 3, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Uniforms are part of discipline and deportment and are especially critical in lower class schools where the students must be trained to fit into society and not allowed to groom each other in anti-social dress and behavior. It also blocks tribal dress and thereby imposes equality between rich and poor, cool and nerd, black, hispanic and white.

Since urban public schools are planned failure factories turning out unemployable products for the prison-welfare industrial complex, uniforms will normally never be used. Sometimes in order to pretend the school isn’t a failur factory the “school” will publish a uniform policy then subvert it by making it optional or full of exceptions.

Then the prole girls can continue to dress as prostitutes and the boys as thugs. It makes things so much easier when they turn 18 and take their places in prison and the welfare lines.

By PJ

July 3, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

Make school uniforms (khaki/navy pants/Bermudas/skirts/jumpers) optional. ENFORCE the non-uniform dress code. A kid violates the non-uniform dress code twice and he/she has to go the uniform route. Those who chose uniforms are happy, those who chose non-uniforms and followed the dress code are happy. Dress code offenders now wearing uniforms are not happy but are living by their choices and have no right to complain.

By jim d

July 3, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

SET,

I vote for just making clothing optional.

By LM

July 3, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Can uniforms improve schools??? ABSOLUTELY!!! Spend a day in a classroom filled with kids with saggy pants, short shorts, cleavage-showing tops, and the like, then spend a day in a classroom filled with students wearing khaki pants and solid colored polo shirts. Your will find the demeanor, attitude, and overall environment for learning much improved in the second classroom. I have worked in both and seen the difference.

I have always been impressed when our school’s coaches required their players to dress up on game day. The players always seemed to be more respectful and cooperative on those days…was it the dress, or was it because it was game day? I always figured it was a combination…

If school uniforms eliminate even one hurdle to the day to day education of students, then let’s do it. No more dealing with kids “bustin’ slack”!!!

By Lee

July 3, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

Uniforms are not the magic pill to cure all of school’s ills, but they do eliminate one major distraction. For that reason alone, they are worth implementing.

My daughter’s private school has uniforms and I like the fact that I don’t have to pay for a “back to school” wardrobe every year. —Bonus—

By Atlanta teacher

July 3, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

Here is a interesting take on uniforms-

An elementary school in South Cobb started a program this year called “Boys to Men”. This was a program started to help get some of the schools worst third, fourth, and fifth grade boys back on track. These were the worst behavior problems in the school. On Fridays, the members of “Boys to Men” would have to wear dark slacks, white shirts, and black ties.

On those Fridays, teachers said that those boys whole demeanors would change. They would no longer act like heinous monkeys when wearing the shirts and ties. They would act more like respectable young men.

The clothing you wear does make a different.

By PJ

July 3, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

LM, Our middle school basketball players also dress up on game day and look very nice. The cheerleaders decided to dress up, too. One showed up in a black cocktail dress and stilettos.

By Old School

July 3, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

How about orange jumpsuits? Short sleeved in hot weather, long sleeved in cold with a permanent mark at the collarbone indicating proper zipped up form (to avoid chest exposure). Our students are always complaining that “this school is like a prison” so why not add to the illusion?

Actually, this instructor would be happy to wear a uniform. I absolutely hate trying to decide what to wear each morning and would much rather spend a little on uniforms and free up some cash for other things. Just please allow me my athletic shoes as standing on concrete for the past 34 years hasn’t done my legs any favors!

By Old School

July 3, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

How about orange jumpsuits? Short sleeved in hot weather, long sleeved in cold with a permanent mark at the collarbone indicating proper zipped up form (to avoid chest exposure). Our students are always complaining that “this school is like a prison” so why not add to the illusion?

Actually, this instructor would be happy to wear a uniform. I absolutely hate trying to decide what to wear each morning and would much rather spend a little on uniforms and free up some cash for other things. Just please allow me my athletic shoes as standing on concrete for the past 34 years hasn’t done my legs any favors!

By jim d

July 3, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/newseducationedblog/2007/11/school-uniforms.html

By jim d

July 3, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

http://atmizzou.missouri.edu/novdec04/SchoolUniforms.htm

By jim d

July 3, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

No

By jim d

July 3, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

NO

By jim d

July 3, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

whats the plan for islamic girls that wear traditional garments in accordance with their religion?

By jim d

July 3, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

Hell no.

TINKER v. DES MOINES SCHOOL DIST

By jim d

July 3, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

can someone please refer me to the specific law authorizing schools to mandate school uniforms? I can’t seem to find one in Georgia.

By jim d

July 3, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

The burden of proof that uniforms in CCPS will improve safety may end up in Thompsons court as I suspect this will be challenged.

“It is our goal to promote student academic success, improve school safety and increase attendance,” Superintendent John Thompson said.”

As for these stated goals safety is the only one that would be defendable. He may have a hard time doing it!

as for the other stated

By luvs2teach

July 3, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

jim d - I’m curious why you are so against it. For me, it’s just such a non-issue - I don’t care. If my school did it, great, if not, then ok. When I was in South America it was just so accepted - that was what you wore to school. I’ll admit, I have seen better behavior on “dress for success” days, but a uniform is different. As a parent, it definitely made BTS shopping and day to day dressing significantly easier.

From a sociological standpoint, I find it interesting that the push for uniforms comes at a time when it seems like anything goes in casual dress - there are no more generally accepted standards of dress for shopping or dining out or even church. It’s like casual Friday has taken over the world, lol! I mean outside of lawyers, accountants, FBI agents, used car salesmen, and IBM workers, who still wears a suit and tie to work?

This may be silly (and I don’t care if it is), but I watched AMC’s show Mad Men - if you’re not familiar, it takes place in 1960 at a New York ad agency or Madison Avenue. I absolutely love the style - particularly men in hats - real hats, too, not baseball caps (which IMHO belong at the park or the beach only). It’s sexy - stylish. When I was a kid, buying new clothes for Easter or Christmas was a big deal - it seem like no one does that anymore.

I guess my point is that we seem to be trying to bring back a standard that used to exist - remember when a dress code violation was a girl wearing pants? I don’t think we need to go back to that extreme, but I would love to see some real style - classic style - come back.

By simon

July 3, 2008 7:41 PM | Link to this

Well, I think problems with our education system is those boards and other education policy makers who keep coming up with these silly ideas that have nothing to do with education. Uniforms, zero-tolerance, Singapore math, etc. etc., How simpleton can they be???

By Tony

July 3, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

I do not for one moment believe that uniforms will improve student achievement through any direct means. I do, however, believe that the requirment of school uniforms can radically change the atmosphere of a school by removing distractions caused by the social status symbols of fashion. I agree with SET that there are certain climates which dictate the use of school uniforms.

It is amazing to me that once a school principal declares uniforms will be worn at a school the amount of noise that will be made in opposition. Would that this noise be made instead to encourage children to learn! What a difference could be made.

The argument about self-expression is interesting, because all the students tend to try to dress alike anyway. Tinker -vs- des Moines is incorrectly cited here. That case was more about students being able to silently protest the Vietnam War by wearing black armbands than it was about establishing a dress code.

By LM

July 3, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

At 9:34 AM, jim d was only going to make one comment on this since we have blogged it to death.

Since then, I count nine.

By WFC

July 4, 2008 7:35 AM | Link to this

My favorite “dress code” story from the year before I retired:

The girls in my 5th period senior elective entered my classroom and were absolutely incensed… a real buzz. I asked them what was up.

“Coach, have you seen Ms. Spalla (one of our assistant principals at Northview)?” I said that I hadn’t.

“She’s dressed like a “ho.” I laughed and asked for details. The girls were incensed (ten or twelve of them, not two or three.)

“She’s got on this tight, short leather skirt and the blouse is unbuttoned low.”

I replied: “looks like she picking up fashion tips from yoou guys.”

Northview is notorious for its lax enforcement of dress code. Of course, we male teachers didn’t dare do anythig about it or we would have been charged with “sexual harassment.”

What a joke!