Get Schooled

By jim d

June 16, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this

http://www.bobbarr2008.com/home/?s=0609-continue

By Jeff

June 16, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

My, my, jimd!

It appears as though we are thinking on the same wavelength again here…

By WFC

June 16, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

In spite of NCLB, the federal government has such a small impact on what actually goes on in classrooms that it doesn’t really matter if we have an “education president” or not. How about an “education state superintendent of schools” or an “education Fulton County board of education?”

By Tony

June 16, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

If you check into the backgrounds of McCain’s educational advisors you’ll find lackluster track records. The business roundtable will continue to push the privatization agenda. Private and charter schools continue to be touted as avenues to improve education yet there is no evidence that indicates their performance is any better than public schools.

My preference is that the federal government stay out of the business of educating our children. There is nothing in the Constitution that authorizes their intrusion into this matter that should be left to the states. Unfortunately, that has never stopped them before.

The musings posted by the Obama camp sound good, but who’s going to pay? I promise you that the federal government will not foot the bill and if he is elected the costs would be passed on to the states.

By RandolphCountyBusDriver

June 16, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

Jeff and jim d so thats your solution? Appoint another neo/paleo-conservative into a position where its once again business as usual? jim d you surprise me. Jeff you don’t. As many posters from our county have said; “we are still trying to repair the damage you caused.”

By Jeff

June 16, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

RCBD:

Don’t you mean the damage you yourselves caused by allowing your kids to get so indoctrinated into the Democratic machine that they thought they could ASSAULT A TEACHER with no repercussions??

Every single problem you have down there can be laid at the feet of the very people you try to cling to for salvation. By trying to ‘help’ you, Sandford Bishop, Bobby Jenkins, and all the rest of their power-hungry cronies have CRIPPLED you, and not even I was powerful enough to change that.

Yes, my dear Randolph County, it would be good for you too to ‘Remember the Titans’.

My hatred of Bobby Jenkins is equal only to my love of the people of that county. He and Sandford Bishop have DESTROYED you, and only you can overthrow them and become the jewel of SWGA that you could be.

So I’ll work where I can to affect change in the area, by voting for non-incumbents and/or Libertarians in every office which I am qualified to vote for. Unfortunately, Bobby Jenkins is someone only you can overthrow. I pray that you do so before it is truly too late.

It may already be.

By RandolphCountyLunchLady

June 16, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

Jeff, You are a 24 karat patronizing maroon! All of your rants on here can be translated as “I didn’t make it as a teacher but I know whats best for schools.” You can fool these people all you want but you know the damage that you caused.

By Jeff

June 16, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this

RC:

It is CLEAR that you are one person with multiple identities, and I maintain that you have never stepped foot in Randolph County.

I further maintain as I stated above: The only ‘damage’ I did was in your own eyes. I was actually working to FIX the damage that the people of Randolph County had done to themselves.

Alas, as the old saying goes ‘You can’t help someone until they decide to help themselves.’

By jim d

June 16, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

RCBD,

Sorry to disapoint you. I honestly felt that Mr. Barr and the Libertarian party were being shunned by the article and that they deserved equal billing. That does not mean that I will support him, though I may.

By RandolphCountyAlcoholic

June 16, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

Jeff sez “Alas, as the old saying goes ‘You can’t help someone until they decide to help themselves.”

Here in Randolph County we have another saying: “A hit dog will holla.”

By Joy in Teaching

June 16, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

1) The federal government needs to completely abolish the Department of Education. It’s a bloated waste of taxpayers money and education in this country certainly hasn’t improved since its establishment.

2) While this is a Presidential reform ideal, the state of Georgia needs to go back to local school Superintendents being elected by the people instead of being appointed. A school superintendent should remember that they are people who have been hired by the people to be stewards of their tax dollars and that they can and will be replaced if necessary.

By catlady

June 16, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

Some of the best things our new Pres can do would be to take away some of the dis-incentives that are currently in place. For example, penalize schools that do NOT dismiss troublemakers, rather than rewarding schools, thru accepting attendance requirements for AYP, who hang onto the severely disruptive kids to the detriment of all.

Make it EASIER for kids to get tested for disabilites, instead of throwing up roadblocks. Adequately fund special ed and end indiscriminate “mainstreaming” when it acts as a detriment to other students.

Get the federal government out of the testing business. Sever ties with groups who profit through the backdoor from federal programs (such as Reading First).

Do not allow systems to “count” certain warehousing activities as “serving” the students.

By verdi73

June 16, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

I am a teacher and I believe in accountability. However, what about the novel idea of judging schools based on percentages gained? Would this not be a more accurate look at student achievement?

By happy2teach

June 16, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

I believe most change needs to be implemented on a local level, but the new President should focus on policies that raise the prestige of being a teacher again. Scholarships, recruiting drives, loan forgiveness, etc.

By Jeff

June 16, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

verdi:

Well, a school that stands currently at 60% may have a 20% gain one year, but are they really better than the school that started at 98% and went to 99%???

BTW: This same issue also applies at honors nights, specifically on the ‘Most Improved’ award. Why do you reward mediocrity and/or failure by giving an award for it???? (Use the same numbers as above, but with students rather than schools.)

By happy2teach

June 16, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

Jeff- Because a student that doesn’t have parents at home, or has to take care of siblings, or doesn’t eat regularly, or any other of a million reasons…might be accomplishing a lot more in going from a 50 to a 75 than a student with all the advantages earning a 98. Chances are, the student with a 98 has been rewarded in life since birth, so why not give something to the student that has had to struggle against amazing odds?

By Jeff

June 16, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

happy:

It aint always the kid with the advantages getting the 98. From what I’ve seen, those students that are TRULY ‘A’ students - not just in the current system, but those that would have been ‘A’ students even in the 50’s or even 80’s - are the ones with ganas that work their tails off and don’t think about the odds.

You would cheat that kid that was making a 98% out of recognition because someone else made a 99%, even though he worked HARDER to overcome the EXACT SAME obstacles as another kid who went from 50% to 75%.

And this makes sense how??

By HS Teacher Too

June 16, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

“He also described a new college scholarship for people who agree to teach for at least four years in a high-need subject or location.”

AAAAH!!! More political JUNK! My problem with programs such as this is that they entice people to enter the field of education for the wrong reasons, and keep them trapped, for worse reasons. The students are the ones who suffer. There are programs in place already that forgive loans for teachers who teach in high-need subjects, or depressed areas. What’s wrong with those? WHY, oh WHY, must politicians always “fix” by addition?!

As for teacher quality, I firmly believe that teacher quality would be improved if teachers were actually allowed to teach. This is not a new sentiment on this blog. To that end, we need “programs in place,” to use politician-speak, that would restore some credibility to teachers’ judgments, which is to say, programs that would force administrations to have backbones!! Or, put differently, we need a system that will support administrators that have and enforce rules. And while this really goes to the questions of discipline that other posters have mentioned, it also refers to having and maintaining reasonable academic standards. No more “the lowest grade is a 60,” or “homework counts 50%,” or any of the other countless — pardon my bluntness — sissy-assed programs that undermine rigor and hard work and make school touchy-feely and foster the unrealistic everyone-gets-a-trophy attitudes schools presently have.

Something that I have occasionally mentioned on this blog, which would also help the general quality of education, is somewhat of a sub-set of finding a way to give administrations backbones.

That is, as much as we complain about lack of parental involvement, what about protecting our administrations and our teachers from the other side of the spectrum — the over-involved parents (chronic in Gwinnett) who bully the teachers and the administration? Some of those parents are just as guilty of affecting the quality of education as are any uninvolved parents, and to some extent they are worse — a teacher who is tough and demanding and has parents who don’t care will be able to ask more of students than a teacher who is tough and demanding and has to constantly fight parents who think that precious junior, who “always gets As” and is now getting Bs, is only doing “poorly” because the teacher is “too hard.” (Or unfair, or any other “poor me,” synonym you can muster up.) Jim d, I know you’re going to stand up and say that parents know what is best for their children, so let me say that I don’t dispute that in the least. But there are parents out there who refuse to let (or see) their children struggle, and part of learning has to be struggling — there has to be a problem and a solution! Today’s kids are sheltered from ever having or seeing problems, and in turn they have no clue how to solve them!

If administrations would back up their teachers (when, of course, the teachers deserve it — some teachers truly need parents who step in and say what’s wrong, because some teachers are idiots), teachers might be able to teach instead of fight battles and drill for tests, their students might learn, and we might actually have the solution to (at least some of ) our education woes.

My two cents.

By happy2teach

June 16, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

I think you are amazingly naive if you do not recognize that the average “A” student has a ton of natural and/or environmental gifts that has made their success possible.

I don’t take anything away from these students, and indeed, life will often reward them immensely. And rightly so…

But, at the same time, I don’t see anything wrong with rewarding enormous progress. If a students works really hard, hard enough to improve that much, chances are there was something beyond the students control that led to the initial 50.

You seem to feel that the playing field is, and has been, level. I’m baffled by this…

By HS Teacher Too

June 16, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

Jeff, What’s wrong with a “Most Improved” award when there is also an achievement award that reflects highest grade, test score, etc.? Maybe I am living in la-la land, but don’t most people think of a “Most Improved” award as somewhat of a dubious distinction, anyway — like holding the record for the most home runs in the minor leagues?

By MrLiberty

June 16, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

There was a time in this country when you could count on the republican candidate to support the constitution and call for an end to ALL federal involvement in education. In 1994 the “republican revolution” ran on this plank. Sadly, republicans are all talk and no walk (Ron Paul excepted).

Despite the fact that only 6% of education budgets come from the feds, nearly 95% of rules and regulations come from them. Is there a state in this nation with the spine to stand up and say “we don’t want your money or your regulations!” NO.

They say “ask any teacher and they will tell you how to improve things.” “Cut administration” will be the aswer. Can’t say that I disagree with the premise. But how can you cut adminstration when they are just there to comply with, deal with, and administer the regulations heap upon them from on high. You who always beg for the federal solution - this is what YOU have wrought. You who claim that a candidate is against schools when he opposes federal involvement - you are to blame.

Now to be sure, all government funding for schools should stop. Parents should pay their own way, always, and nobody should have to pay for the raising of a child except the parents or thouse who volunteer.

But then one must also remember that federal schools were started with the specific purpose of undermining parents, their values, their teaching, and most especially their religion. It was important for certain folks that dhildren did not grow up into independant-thinking, authority questioning individuals. They need sheep, and just as easily as your children jump to their feet and pledge allegiance to a cloth and some tired idea of empire, then they have already one.

Barack and Cain both are statisf, war mongers, and suporters of the empire/ There is no reason to believe that any good can come of either.

Ron Paul was our last hope.

By Jeff

June 16, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

HST2:

My point exactly. Schools should reward EXCELLENCE and nothing but. I don’t care HOW you slice it, a 75 is mediocre at best. It cheapens the awards ceremony for ALL when you give an award to a kid with a 99.94% in all classes and in the very next breath give a kid with a 74% an award because he used to be at 54%.

happy:

Exactly. The playing field IS level, always has been, and always will be. If you work hard enough, ANYTHING can be overcome, and I am living proof of that statement.

Your dad making $100K isn’t going to MAKE you want to be the best. Neither will your mom (because your dad has never been in the picture) making $5.15/hr KEEP you from wanting to be the best.

Matter of fact, from what I have observed in my own life, the MAJORITY of the time it isn’t the rich kids that have the ganas. It is the poor kids and other rejects.

I myself am a product of a trailer park, an alternative school, and probation - all before I turned 18, and in addition to several other crimes I never got busted for.

Yet I graduated HS with a 3.75, nearly got two degrees and rose to represent the entire southeast for a national honors organization.

Don’t TELL me that the poor kids and the rejects can’t do it. I’m living proof that they CAN.

By HS Teacher Too

June 16, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

“It cheapens the awards ceremony for ALL when you give an award to a kid with a 99.94% in all classes and in the very next breath give a kid with a 74% an award because he used to be at 54%.”

Jeff, in a previous version of me, I used to agree with that statement. However, at the risk of being a little more bleeding-heart than I ever thought I’d be, I now do see the benefit in rewarding the kids who make such big improvements. It shows them that someone noticed, and someone cares. Sometimes that message is too important to forgo.

To qualify this perspective, I have been the kid who had the 99 average who felt like the other awards lessened mine — awards night was supposed to be for the outstanding, right? But I came to see, and do clearly see, the other side; and I think I am a better person for it.

If you want to fight, fight for the kid who started with the 75, brought it up to the 85, and no one gives a hoot! ;) Just kidding. The non-bleeding-heart that still resides in me would scream.

By happy2teach

June 16, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

Jeff- That is comically sad. The playing field is not even close to level. It sounds like YOU are living proof of that. I’ll bet you have had to work really hard to get where you are; whereas rich kids can often get away with less effort because of connections, money, etc.

I’m not sure how you’ve arrived at your conclusion. There are a few logical inconsistencies in your argument.

By Steve

June 16, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

Isn’t the education president an owymoron? Why always the same stuff. Why not go after the military, police, lawyers, doctors, financial advisors, juvenile justice, network tv, celebrities, newspapers, social workers, construction, banks or #1 on my most hated list money gouging dentists. Nothing is going to change as this argument has been going on for more than 4 decades (that I know of.) Get something new so we can hear more stupid ideas and thoughts about something else. BORING.

By Tony

June 16, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this

Jeff - there is great benefit in recognizing improvement. The most effective way to move away from mediocrity is to reward the ones moving in the right direction. Recognizing only absolute achievement is the epitome of self-righteousness. I don’t believe the giving an award for vastly improved performance cheapens other awards by any stretch of the imagination.

The child who pulls their grades from the gutter and demonstrates much higher achievement than before shows guts on the part of that child. I don’t understand why you would want to degrade that achievement.

By RandolphCountyResourceOfficer

June 16, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this

People don’t get too exited about Jeff. When he was pulled out of the classroom for “not being effective as an educator” he went through a whole box of Kleenex in my office. Don’t be too hard on him; this is the only place where he can ‘shine.’

By CityofAlbanyITmanager

June 16, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

Jeff are you still browsing the net on company time? You better get back to work before I fire your a$$!

By Attn: Clayton Parents

June 16, 2008 6:43 PM | Link to this

How can the AJC claim to be “obective” about moderating a school board debate when they are deliberately shutting out questions posed by MACE supporters?

Want definitive proof? Read the following question:

“If a grand jury investigation casts doubt on the legitimacy of the SACS investigation, would you be willing to seek accreditation from another recognized accreditation agency, such as the Georgia Accreditation Commission?”

Given that the SACS investigation was THE issue that brought everything to a head, how can the AJC claim this is not a perfectly valid question to ask?

And if the AJC isn’t willing to respond to repeated requests as to why this ISN’T a valid question to ask, what does that say about their willingness to play “political games” with Clayton County’s future?

It’s one thing to have an editorial bias against MACE; it’s another thing to deliberately shut MACE supportors out of forums even when they have completely valid questions.

And if the above question ISN’T valid AJC, please have the courage of your convictions and post why. In fact I would challenge anybody reading this to post why it isn’t a perfectly valid question; or barring that, call on the AJC to address the question.

By verdi73

June 16, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

Jeff, What if a school A increases their test scores 25%, and they are still deemed a failure by the feds because they didn’t meet the bar for AYP, and School B’s test scores drop from 95% to 85%, but school B still makes AYP? Who had the greatest achievement that year? What about the 5th grade special ed student who goes from a 2nd grade reading level to a 3.5 grade reading level in one year. Was there no achievement?

By Jeff

June 17, 2008 8:29 AM | Link to this

verdi:

If school A scored less than 85% that year, school B STILL had the greater achievement.

The single goal in education is PERFECTION.

At the same time, standards must NOT be lowered (as we see with NCLB).

BTW: Listen to Paul Harvey’s The Rest of The Story about a guy named Tim Dick at some point. Another example of ganas. This dude was convicted of selling cocaine back in the late 70’s/early 80s. He got out of prison after serving 20 months of the 8 years he’d been sentenced to. He then proceeded to become one of the bigger stand up comics of the past 20 years.

You see, Tim Dick’s full name is Timothy Allen Dick. We know him now as Tim Allen.

By CityofAlbanyHRoffice

June 17, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

Jeff, Stop by HR during your lunch break. You can’t seem to stop surfing the net during company time so we are going to give you all the time you need to blog. Don’t forget to turn in your keys to Willie also.

By Competitive

June 17, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

If you can show me the candidate that will cut spending, lower taxes, balance the budget, and start paying off our debt, I will show you the person who gets my vote. Frankly, I don’t care what they say about education. It is not the most important issue for the federal government right now.

By barb

June 17, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this

You know I think it’s funny- doctors, lawyers, politicians, scientists, astronauts, judges, athletes and actors are held in fairly high esteem in this country. But not teachers. Huh, the one thing these people all have in common is they went to school at some point and it was TEACHERS that helped them to reach that goal. Go figure…

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