AJC.com > Blogs > Get Schooled > Archives > 2008 > June > 13 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USName your biggest school concerns
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Fulton County’s new superintendent asked parents and teachers their top school concerns. Not surprisingly overcrowding and math got the most votes.
Give the same survey in other metro areas and you may get similar answers.
But there are other issues I hear parents talking about: discipline, teacher quality, long bus rides and “teaching to the test.”
Teachers have their own concerns as well, such as discipline, training, parental support and the quality of school and district administrators.
What would you list as your biggest school concerns? How would you fix these problems?
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Comments
By Ernest
June 13, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this
My biggest concerns are the lack of parental involvement, which probably can be tied to the discipline challenges that exists in our schools. There are some schools that have tremendous levels of parental involvement but they are are outnumbered by those that have little to none.
I’m not sure how to fix it for everyone but will make sure I do my part with the schools in my community. I can only hope that the example I believe I am setting will be seen by others and replicated. Anyone who finds the ‘magic bullet’ that solves this issue can become a rich person….
By Gwinnett Educator
June 13, 2008 8:43 AM | Link to this
If this question was asked while I was still employed with Dekalb County, I would have written a book on my concerns.
However, my main concern at this time is the quality of Adminstrators. I have worked under worse principals before and my current one really is not a bad person. However, his leadership skills are HORRENDOUS! The morale is super low and the people leave in droves. (Last yr when I came in, I was joined with over 30 something NEW teachers to the schools). This current year has been the same with some OUTSTANDING teachers who have run for the hills. Others are waiting to complete their 3rd yr so that they can transfer.
My only suggestion is a better evaluation procedure of these adminstrators. If you see that the teachers in a school are leaving left and right EVERY YEAR..something is WRONG! Do something about it.
By happy2teach
June 13, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this
Addressing the quality of teachers is paramount, for it’s the only “solution” that can cover up a lot of the other ills. Merit pay and a serious effort to raise the prestige associated with teaching is needed. We also have to encourage career changers to enter the most fulfilling job in the world and we need to entice more men into the field.
Never underestimate the power of a great teacher that will stand up and fight for the change they believe in.
By happy2teach
June 13, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this
Addressing the quality of teachers is paramount, for it’s the only “solution” that can cover up a lot of the other ills. Merit pay and a serious effort to raise the prestige associated with teaching is needed. We also have to encourage career changers to enter the most fulfilling job in the world and we need to entice more men into the field.
Never underestimate the power of a great teacher that will stand up and fight for the change they believe in.
By JeremiahWright
June 13, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this
Lack of discipline, lack of values teaching, and illegal alien kids.
By YL
June 13, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
I agree with the Gwinnett Educator about the poor quality of the administrators. I work in DeKalb County and have seen them in every school in which I have been employed. As stated by another writer, when teachers (and other staff) leave in droves year after year from the same school, someone higher up should question the reasons. The PALS assessments (yearly evaluations that the staff complete for principals, assistant principals, etc.) are truly a joke. It is such a waste if the results are not being used. Poor administrators are not just prevalent in the school building. Many central office staff persons do not have a clue about managing their particular programs. Many positions are worthless.
In addition, I have seen a deterioration in the quality of teachers in certain schools. Parents need to know what is happening in the schools, so parents should be more involved. Speak out parents! You have a lot of power.
By Debby
June 13, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
Schools need to return to grouping and teaching the kids in classrooms according to their ability. This is how it was done years ago, and it worked. I assume it’s become politically incorrect, but I want my child to be challenged, and that’s only going to happen if the teacher is not bogged down by teaching to the slowest in the class.
By Gwinnett Educator
June 13, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this
YL- you have said a mouthful. One of the things that bothered me with Dekalb (I only worked in 1 school the entire time) was how many different principals I worked under. It seemed to me (and I may be wrong) that they “rotate” principals every 3 yrs in not so great schools. It would take about 3 yrs to get used to the new adminstrator and their ways and BAM..they are out and here comes a new team.
That, in turn, affects the quality of teachers. Great teachers will not be lured into those type of schools and those that get in there will get out REAL QUICK!
By Truth Filter
June 13, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
Debby,
It worked for who? Plenty of research said it did not work for the kids who were behind or perhaps had learning problems. I’m assuming you mean it worked for the high achievers.
By WhatWillLauraDo?
June 13, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
Speaking of discipline Laura, where’s the follow up on the teacher who was brutally assaulted?
By Martina
June 13, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
Don’t get me started on discipline! I’ve just come from my 2nd week of “teaching” ten third-graders who failed the reading CRCT. With the exception of a few, they won’t even attempt to read anything and then cop an attidude when they miss the majority of the questions! What really aggravates me the most is that at least in the case of one I know from my school, he’s been retained before so no way will he be kept back even if he does fail it again (which will probably happen given his current attitude). I could have them in a classroom every day for the rest of the summer and it still wouldn’t enable them to pass the CRCT if they won’t at least TRY to read the passages. The sad thing is that most of them can sound it out and read it if you sit there and MAKE them, but they won’t do it when they have to work independently.
By Beck
June 13, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
Jeremiah,
Do you have any experience in the classroom, or are you simply trying to advance your own agenda? In my 11 years of experience, 9 out of 10 kids who come here from other countries work harder than the American kids overcoming a language barrier (and in many cases) with less academic support at home. (Meaning access to dictionaries, school supplies, the internet, etc. not a lack of parental involvement.) Many immigrant families are working LONG hours to ensure their kids have better lives than they do.P. S. I don’t recognize Wright, as a Native American last name; where did your family come from, and why did they move here?
By happy2teach
June 13, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
Amen Beck! I’d take a school of immigrants, no matter their status, over a school of close-minded, hateful white kids any day.
By Clean it up
June 13, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
Administrators: Give faculty the opportunity to give an honest evaluation of administrators. Some teachers move from the classroom because administration is the only realistic way to significantly increase salary. (Of course, some of them are leaving the classroom because they’re terrible teachers…) I don’t know how many minutes (it’s obviously not longer) they spend on personnel management in “administrator” school, but they are not effective!
On a related note, I believe there would be a signifcant impact on teacher morale (and perhaps retention) if administrators would bite the bullet and get rid of the deadwood in schools. Rather than shifting these incompetents and malcontents from one position (and/or school) to another, take some action and move them out of the system. Allowing these teachers to keep their jobs sets a very low standard for other teachers - and angers me as a taxpayer in my community who sees these people in every school, many of whom draw exorbitant salaries for years. (Come on, take them on and win a few lawsuits, rather than cowering in fear of being sued!)
By Debby
June 13, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
Why wouldn’t it make more sense to have kids who are all basically on the same level of capability, being in the same classroom, and being taught at the same rate of speed?? I don’t understand why you say there is so much evidence to prove it didn’t work.
I would think it would be much easier for the teacher and for the students as well.
By If you want to generalize
June 13, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this
Beck and happy2teach, Amen!
My best friend taught English for almost 20 years before transferring to ESOL. A major impetus was when an affluent white boy’s mother bought him an SUV when he was removed from summer school for tardies and absences. If you want to generalize, she found that the ESOL students were more attentive, industrious, polite and appreciative as a rule than many of the “English speakers.”
By happy2teach
June 13, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
Debby- I don’t know about your school and/or district, but most have an “advanced” program. Most students that do not qualify for these programs benefit greatly from a heterogeneous classroom. “Lower” kids do well because of the expectations that their “higher” peers set. The “higher” set benefits from helping their “lower” peers understand difficult concepts; plus they get time to work individually on topics of their own choosing. I have noticed that kids with “high” ability, but little work-ethic, don’t get everything they might out of these classes. Of course, with low work-ethic, they usually don’t fulfill their potential no matter the class they’re in.
By Beck
June 13, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
Amen happy2teach!
Debby, traditional intelligence isn’t everything; just check out the value placed on IQ among the Nazi hierarchy.
I’d rather have a room full of generally nice and helpful kids who want to learn and work well together, trading off their blessings and shortcomings.
Some very intelligent students don’t express themselves very well and some “not so bright” kids are some of the most artistically talented kids out there. Pair them up and you can make some magic in your classroom.
By DeWitt
June 13, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
I am a high school administrator, and I totally agree with you Debby. I believe in homogeneous grouping as opposed to heterogenous grouping. We hinder the progress of the students (On an advanced level) that are ready to move on with the objectives being taught. Homogeneous grouping may be “politically correct.” but I don’t believe that it is correct for the students’ effective progress.
By happy2teach
June 13, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
DeWitt - I’m surprised that you don’t understand that any effective teacher can differentiate their instruction well enough to accommodate the potential of most students. Granted, not all teachers are effective, but adminstrators should be doing more to identify and replace ineffective teachers.
By lyncoln
June 13, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
Here’s an interesting blog post with links to research regarding tracking: tracking research.
The summary listed on the site states that tracking students into ability groups tends to be better for all students because they get to learn at their own pace.
I very much believe that tracking would be better than keeping everyone in the same class. I went to a 2nd grade classroom for math because there was no reason for me to sit around and listen to 1st grade math. Staying with the rest of my class would have been a huge waste of time.
By happy2teach
June 13, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
Wow lyncoln, way to cite a blog, a blog that links to an “advanced” student advocacy group. Impressive.
Again, students learn at their own pace in a heterogeneous classroom. I have special education kids in my classroom along with students who won our county literature competition. I feel very safe in saying that my best students made my struggling students better and my best students grew and achieved in ways that aren’t measured on a standardized test.
By Continuous achievement
June 13, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
In Fulton County Schools, this is addressed by continuous achievement, which has been before the school board often this year.
As Lyncoln notes above, students are placed in classes according to their functional level (for math and reading, anyway). This addresses the social-emotional issue of full acceleration (skipping grades) while meeting the student’s academic needs.
Fulton County has done a good job of applying this when students are identified. I know students who’ve been accelerated up to the point of taking AP Calculus as high school freshmen. Distribution of this has varied according to administrators’ relative compliance with the program, however. This is what concerns me when we talk about giving principals more local school control. Some administrators have the “self-esteem” interests of certain students more at heart than the needs of high-ability students and subscribe to the belief that the academically gifted will succeed “anyway.”
Anecdotally, my two sons have almost always performed best in the most academically accelerated classes. (My recent graduate’s best year academically was his junior year with AP Lang, AP US History, AP Chem, AP physics, college math, and school newspaper.)
By JeremiahWright
June 13, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
Beck,
My family came here LEGALLY in the late 1800s. Hard-working or not, ILLEGAL aliens are a drain on the system and especially the school system. The language barrier uses up time that should be spent teaching the children of CITIZENS who PAY TAXES to send their kids to school. It’s as simple as that. You open borders nuts are responsible for some of the problems in schools.
By the way, the fact that you don’t recognize the name JEREMIAH WRIGHT indicates you’re clueless when it comes to politics and current events. Or maybe you’re a just a blind Obama supporter?
By JeremiahWright
June 13, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
happy2teach is a racist or she wouldn’t have specified “white kids.” I’d take a school full of spoiled rich white kids over an inner city school full of black and hispanic gangsters and thugs any day.
By happy2teach
June 13, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
I believe, in middle and high schools there is always some kind od accelerated program, as there should be. I never hear anyone arguing to abolish those programs.
The problem, it seems, is when parents have an inflated view of their children’s ability and want to blame heterogeneous grouping for their childs lack of achievement. Everybody wants their child to be “gifted”. I can assure you, if they truly are, there is a program in their school that suits them.
By lyncoln
June 13, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
happy2teach:
You did follow the link and see all of the various published articles and studies cited, didn’t you?
I know you’re not going to agree with my position, but I’d love to read some research supporting your position rather than just your anecdotal evidence. Since your classroom does not make up the entire school system.
By thomas
June 13, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
Personally, I have a low opinion of administrators in general. Working in Cobb County gave me this opinion. These people up here are sickening. If I told you one tenth of what it is like, you vomit. Maggots (principals) being allowed to do what ever they want without reprisal or accountability. What makes is so bad it that most are highly INCOMPETENT. They place people who have only been teaching 3-5 years in AP positions and only ex-social workers, counselors, PE teachers, music teachers, speech patholists, etc. in administrative positions. They only want yesmen, bosses, and supervisors as principals and APs, not experienced classroom teachers. They don´t want instructional leaders, only managers who give orders and boss people.
As for immigrants in schools, for the most part, they are TEN times better than our own American students and parents. Our arrogance has RUINED the American educational system. As a whole, you get very little cooperation, support, and effort from American students and parents. Everybody figures that they are owed something.
By happy2teach
June 13, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
(http://pubs.cde.ca.gov/tcsii/ch7/heterogengrpings.aspx) (www.nmsa.org/portals/0/pdf/research/ResearchSummaries/HeterogeneousGrouping.pdf) (http://www.ncmsa.net/heterogr.htm)
In the last link especially, I think it is noteworthy that the disadvantages of heterogeneous grouping have more to do with teacher quality than the practice itself.
Oh, and Jeremiah, I’m a white guy.
By TheBlogger
June 13, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
Martina
You have hit on my biggest concern - and it is really hard to describe.
Kids today have most everything handed to them. They rarely have chores, they fully expect (and get) an allowance, they are handed all of the overpriced Nikes, clothes, whatever like they were free, etc. In addition, they have ZERO respect for adults or authority of any type.
When something goes wrong for them (failing CRCT comes to mind) it is never their fault. And, the excuses come flowing. They take no responsibility or ownership for anything that they do.
Parents (most of them) are the enablers. Today’s parents think that their job solely consists of providing their child with material things - and the more and higher price tag the better. They don’t teach morals, ethics, respect for others, empathy, or anything along those lines AT ALL. The only other thing that these parents provide for their children are ways to get out of the trouble that these monsters inevitably get into.
Teachers get the first introduction to these little monsters. We see them first hand and expected to somehow teach them the content as required by the State. However, we end up spending so much time on the other BS, who has the time to teach content?
The next line these monsters usually meet is the law. Good luck to them (the law, that is).
Bottom line for me? The biggest problem schools face is children that have had no parenting!
As a teacher, give me a well behaved, well disciplined and respective child that is eager to learn (even if they have a learning disability) any day! I can almost 100% assure them that they will pass the CRCT, the EOCT, or the GHSGT!
By happy2teach
June 13, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
From:[http://ruby.fgcu.edu/courses/80337/McAvoy/HETERO~1.html]
Once we expand our definition on success, we come to the conclusion that research strongly supports the positive effects of heterogeneous groupings of students because of its noticeable effects on; attitude toward school, increase of self-concepts as learners, relationships with peers, reduction of anxiety, and future aspirations. Students in a nongraded setting increased their interactions with other students and their teachers. The increased interactions as a result of pairing older/younger students was even noticeable in pre-school children. Leadership skills increased in older children, Prosocial behaviors increased while aggression among students lessened. According to Payan and Scrankler, school attendance rates increased. Pratt mentions that increased harmony and nurturance developed within multi-age groupings and further maintains that the drop-out rate is significantly lower in the non-graded school.
By JeremiahWright
June 13, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this
happy2teach,
So is Rev. Pfleger (white, that is), but he hates white people as well.
By Debby
June 13, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
Beck, your idea sounds very nice, however we’re talking about the public school system.
I don’t think the kids with more ability should have to coach the kids who aren’t working at the same level. It would be much more efficient to have the kids all working on the same thing and “getting it” at the same time.
As for the “advanced” classes, if you mean the gifted program, that’s one day a week. The rest of the week is spent in the regular classroom doing exactly what the rest of the kids are doing.
I never knew my kids to be given more challenging work than what the rest were doing. The teachers don’t have time to make up a special lesson plan for every child.
I also don’t agree that the slower kids will benefit by the expectations that the other more advanced kids set. I would think there would be less frustration if they were working on the same level as everyone else.
By Simon
June 13, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this
I agree with Gwinett Educator that the quality of administrators is a huge issue. However, it is also related to the quality of teachers as well. When teachers don’t understand the subjects they are teaching - understand them deeply, not necessarily as professional researchers in those subjects might understand - then it doesn’t matter how they are evaluated. Too many teachers assume wrongly that they understand - and get upset with administrators’ evaluation.
The pathway to administrators in this country is flawed. They should be first and foremost exemplary teachers. Then, and only then, they should be considered for an administrator’s position. They can hire someone with more business expertise to run the day to day operations of schools, but we need administrators who are true curriculum and instruction leaders.
By Teachers Pet
June 13, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this
Amen Simon! Education has been such a closed bureaucracy that if They bothered to open it up not just to traditional educators; you might see some real magic! What about The Alternative schools ???– Poor teachers, poor administrators and poor students!
By Beck
June 13, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this
“Jeremiah”
Have you ever heard of a thing called coincidence? Get a Grip!!!
Debby, that wasn’t my post; that was Happy2Teach.
And Happy2Teach, let me get “Jeremiah” off your back for a second. I’ll fly the “racist” flag today. As a multiracial female I’m just going to tell you what many of us are thinking. Rev. Wright told the truth and there’s a great deal of white America that doesn’t want to hear it, but it is the truth. It just saddens me that Obama distanced himself from him.
By metroteacher
June 13, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this
I agree we have no way to evaluate our administrators. We need open ended questions…but they do not want to hear the answers, so we don’t get to fill those out. Each year we get to try whatever lastest research the admins read about in professional journals…the flavor of the month in staff development. Some of it is just nonsense; however, we know the next year will bring a new flavor. The admins don’t understand the trickle down effect: if the teachers are happy (i.e. good staff morale), the students are happy, and then the parents are happy. Happy parents make administrators look good…so it’s in their best interest to make us happy, instead of throwing more nonsense at us, or not supporting us w/ parents, curriculum, what have you. Sigh…we all needed this summer break!
By catlady
June 13, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this
My list: student behavior and engagement; refusal to retain students; lack of parent involvement/interest; poorly prepared administrators; cure du jour as a solution to everything; teachers not treated as professionals; interference from state and national politicians; the tier process for identifying sp ed students; sp ed kids being placed in classes who subsequently negatively impact the other students/lack of adequate numbers of sp ed personnel; exponentially-increasing tangential assignments for teachers in addition to planning, instructing, and evaluating student work and an emphasis on writing plans rather than carrying out instruction; not paying attention to unbiased research/purchasing programs that are “validated” by the publishing company. That’s my list off the top of my head.
The teachers at my school PREFER to have the Latino children because THEY WORK AND THEIR PARENTS EXPECT THEM TO BEHAVE. I am sure there are bad apples (bad tacos?) but we have few of them.
By Racebaiter
June 13, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this
That’s ok Beck. Your racism will sink Obama. Just watch. Of course, then you’ll have another reason to cry “racism” won’t you? It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. White people are so tired of being accused of racism falsely, that they’re start to hate black people! Of course, that’s what keeps Jesse Jackson, Rev. Wright, and Al Sharpton in business isn’t it?
By Tony
June 13, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this
As a school principal I am extremely alarmed at the number of negative remarks toward administrators in todays posts. I hope my colleagues take notice and examine the climate of their schools. I hope the district leaders take notice and find ways to get the laggards out of the principals’ chairs and get competent people in them.
Apathy is my number one concern. What I am seeing on the increase is a sense of entitlement from some segments of our population when it comes to education. They expect their kids to have a world class education but when it comes to doing the work required to learn, these very same parents are complaining that we are asking too much of their child.
The recent increase in math requirements in our state that brought about the lower CRCT results is a fine example of that phenomenon. A tougher curriculum with higher testing standards will have more kids fail. If we want higher standards of learning for the state of Georgia then we have to back that up with action and support. That means we must expect our kids to do what it takes to EARN the grade and LEARN the material.
Illegal aliens are not killing our schools. Federal intrusion and apathy are.
By Gwinnett Educator
June 13, 2008 7:35 PM | Link to this
Tony, I am glad to read your response. At the end of the yr, a few teachers got together and had a nice dinner. Of course, we talked about work. There were those that seriously want to invite the principal out to speak with him..and be real. No one (that I know of ) want to pick at him, make fun, or even see him fail. It is a matter of making the school environment better. I hate to say it, but now, I am counting my time before I can transfer. So many are leaving after the 2008-2009 school yr because that would complete yr number 3.
I refused to sign my Dekalb county contract last yr because I was beyond tired of how the school was being run. I had NO idea where I was going but I knew I couldnt go back to that environment. I would walk in the building and be sick. There was only ONE teacher left on my grade level and the one above mine when I left. (they left too) and I found out today, not a SOUL has returned to a grade level for the upcoming yr. Imagine having to hire and move other teachers around to replace an entire grade level.
By metroteacher
June 13, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this
Tony, I hope you are friends w/ my administrator, and you share this blog w/ him. In fact, point them all to it…how can they be so obtuse when it comes to school climate?? We are told to raise test performance…however, we cannot raise expectations for simple things (turning work in on time, for example). We have to take work any time it is given (I am not talking about kids who were out sick…I mean the same kids week after week who won’t work). We are not preparing the kids for the real world. We were told teaching responsibility is not a GPS. Next year I will be in the throng of teachers seeking a transfer…it’s going to be very competitive.
By Tony
June 13, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this
GE, leading our schools has become increasingly a challenge, but I recognize our school will not be a great place to learn unless all of us work together. I can’t speak for other principals, but I believe most would welcome opportunities to work together for the improvement of the school.
By Beck
June 13, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this
Racebaiter,
What you fail to understand is that it is not racist to bring forward the truth of America's heritage. What is racist is to not acknowledge these faults and then rectify them for the present and future. Maybe you should listen to Reverend Wright's sermon (or read the text) for yourself and then go do some research.By Gwinnett Educator
June 13, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this
Tony, I totally agree. My desire (and it still is) is to work in a GREAT SCHOOL. Great to me is a school where EVERYONE is working together for the children. Isnt that what we are supposed to be about? Great schools are hard to get into. Those teachers do NOT leave and who can blame them.
I do understand that it isnt an easy job being an administrator and LORD knows I would never want to be one. I have worked under “Dr.s” who were caught up under the title and loving to hear that title spoken to them. Ive worked under the single, childless, I need a new best friend who would drag meetings out to have company…its all very tiring.
The “most” that you speak of..I have yet to meet. My last principal always wanted us to fill out a questionnaire at the end of the semester and then meet with him. What was the point because it “my authority is being challenged convo” or just plan defiance because you ACTUALLY filled in the space about things that could be improved AND offered suggestions.
By Time for a change
June 13, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this
Yes, maybe you could refer this to Dr. Loe and she could ask the questions again. If faculty were asked about what needs to change and didn’t fear reprisals, she probably wouldn’t get the “everything is great” response.
Two administrators in our high school were elementary school counselors before becoming high school APs —NOT a good transition for either! Only one of the 5 APs at my school was there when I arrived 3 years ago, and one position has turned over twice! Not surprisingly, the 2 who’ve recently come from regular ed classrooms are the most consistent in discipline - and seem to be the most overwrought in their new positions (maybe because they still see the connection?).
At what level are you a principal, Tony? When do you think can we expect to have true leadership in at least a majority of our schools? (It seems they’re just been doing a lot of shuffling around the inept administrators now.)
By metroteacher
June 13, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this
Re: the shuffling…rumor has it AP’s at schools not making AYP are being moved to schools that are…so lucky us, we get one! The one we get has never been a classroom teacher. If they are going to hire people w/out education experience to be AP’s why not hire from the business community, where at least they might have some management skills? We need an influx of people doing things that make sense…some days I leave just scratching my head. This job is easier if you have a lemming mentality; unfortunately, I don’t. Ineptitude drives me nuts!!I am held accountable for doing my job…why aren’t the administrators???
By simon
June 13, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this
My comments about hiring someone to run schools by no means indicating my desire to have non-educator as principals. Principals, in my mind, should be the curriculum and instruction leader. You can hire someone with business expertise to run the business aspect of schools, but they SHOULD NOT be sticking their necks into curriculum and instruction aspects of schools.
Administrators have such a bad reputations because they deserve every single one of criticisms. Of course, there are a whole bunch of teachers who deserve much more criticism, too. I am tired of teachers complaining about parents. They are simply looking for excuses.
By Racebaiter
June 13, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this
Beck,
What your ignorance fails to allow to understand is that the past is the past. I have neither participated in, nor benefited from, slavery and racism of the past. Blacks are now 3-4 generations removed from slavery and poor treatment of the 60s and before. It’s time to get over it. If they’re still failing, it’s their own fault. It’s not my fault, and never was, and I refuse to let the likes of whiners like yourself call me a racist. I endure affirmative action, speeches from idiots like Rev. Wright (and I have seen the lectures and the texts—there’s no excuse or reasonable context for any of it), and derision every time I step on a basketball court, so it’s time to focus the racist accusations on the blacks and other minorities. Until you do, I don’t care that you THINK whites are racist, or that you fail because of that perception.
By TheBlogger
June 13, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this
Tony, Are you really that shocked at what you read here? So many administrators see their work at a school as simply a stepping stop to the central offices. Their concern is not for the students, not for the teachers, and not for the school at all. Their concern is to maintain status-quo and to keep a good “face” for their bosses.
Thus, they don’t report school crimes, etc. They don’t try to improve anything. They just want to ‘coast’ until an openning at the central offices comes available for them. Meanwhile, the moral of the school degrades. Students quickly realize that they will not get into trouble regardless of what they do. Discipline goes to the way-side. Even some teachers (not the good ones) stop teaching and simply ‘coast.’
By Beck
June 13, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this
Racebaiter,
I succeed or fail by my own merit. This attitude has allowed me a modicum of success which I am happy with. I also don't lump everyone into one category which you seem to be only too happy to do. Also, I haven't assumed anything about you b/c I don't know you and you don't know me. I never called you a racist, or any other name for that matter. You may want to go back and re-read.Regardless, I won’t be responding as I don’t participate in name-calling contests.
By Dr. Craig Spinks
June 14, 2008 2:45 AM | Link to this
Lack of professional courage among working educators: Teachers and administrators fail to confront and report to The Public problems which are undermining the foundations of our public education system and the free society which is built upon it.
By metroteacher
June 14, 2008 7:20 AM | Link to this
Dr. Craig, Are you kidding??? Teachers cannot “report to the public” and still have a job the next day! Do you know how many things we report to the admins that are NEVER dealt with?? As teachers, WE do not call the police, dfcs, the news, etc…this all must go through the school or we are in huge trouble. Most teachers still need to have a place to work the next day, so we tend to follow those procedures.
By Steve
June 14, 2008 8:24 AM | Link to this
Schools have problems. Administrators are the perfect example of the Peter Principle. Highest level of incompetence. Remediation for those that are behind. No one has ever been able to show me how to do it OR that it is even possible in the classroom. That is unless you want to give the rest of the class meaningless work to do (search word, definitions, worksheets, etc.). Differentiation is a very big word and most do not even understand how it works. It is when you assign leveled tasks to a heterogeneous group based on abilities determined by pretesting. The goal is to make the lower leveled group not feel stupid by giving easier tasks. This really does not work for anything past 5th grade as older kids see it immediately for what it is - dumbing down to lower groups within a classroom. Discipline. This is an intrinsic characteristic that starts at birth. If it doesn’t then we have people that do not conform to rules. We actually need those to employ all facets of law enforcement - including lawyers and judges. Besides, most administrators blame teachers instead of the troublemakers. More politically correct. NCLB is probably the biggest problem in schools. Rarely can you ever get a group to agree on anything much less achieve to a certain level. I work in a Title I school and also work with many of the top people in education across the county. Behind closed doors there is not one that believes that every kid is going to pass every class and graduate from high school. So now we have removed job skill building (vocational) classes from those that desire them and what do they do - drop out. Wow, isn’t that easy? Every child should be able to get a well rounded education and pursue their own interests and NCLB destroys that. I still am not hearing very many solutions - just a lot of venting with little action or involvement.
By lisa
June 14, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this
An aspect that hasn’t been brought up is the issue with school buses. The bus drivers obviously need to pay attention to the road, while in transit, who is monitoring the kids? I’ve heard boys getting hand jobs, watching porn on their phones, girls getting grabbed inappriopriatly etc.. When I called Fulton Co. (specifically about the ‘videos’ on the cell phones) they said there was nothing they could do about it unless they banned cell phones.
By Dr. Craig Spinks
June 14, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this
(M)etroteacher, you make my point. Courage is doing one’s duty in the face of fear of job loss. What if the vast majority of our military operated on the principle that personal or professional welfare were the highest civic virtue?(I won’t argue that there’re not members of our military who do place personal and/or professional safety above the nation’s safety.)
By Gwinnett Educator
June 14, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this
Dr.Spinks, I can not agree with that analogy using the military. The military are there to defend…even in times of war. If there are those that can not put the nation’s safety above their personal, they need not apply.
However, those of us that majored in education and have been teaching for yrs (12 for me), I can NOT afford to lose my job. I have tried to find other careers outside of education and with my degree, it is a very difficult thing to do. I do not have the “experience” that is needed. (techology, yrs in X position,etc) To find another job/career..we would be very fortunate to find someone that is willing to TRAIN us to be what they need us to be. Or the worst part to me, find a job, but taking a paycut that is utterly ridiculous. (thousands of dollars)
The problem is, so many teachers are afraid of the repercussions of speaking out because we KNOW how others have been made to suffer and that can keep us from even landing another teaching position in another county, etc. IF we could get a group of teachers that are willing to stand up together, much could and would get done.
I still stand by my original statement, the “higher ups” need to look and pay attention to the schools that have teachers leaving in droves and do something about it. However, who is doing something about the “higher ups” who are enjoying a cushioned job?
It is a trickle down effect. It starts from the top! Ineffectiveness at the TOP will show at the bottom.
By MENSAN
June 14, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
I was fortunate to go through the DeKalb County school system in the 1970s-1980s before things got REALLY crazy and can tell you that I am glad that we had classes of different levels based on ability. To the people on this blog who think that it’s a good idea to lump all kids together in the same classroom with the idea that the brighter students will help the ones having difficulty, IT DOESN’T WORK!! The gifted and advanced classs were a safe haven for my me and my friends, since we were bullied mercilessly by those kids who were not in the gifted and advanced classes. The other kids did NOT want our help and made it painfully clear! Advanced-level students should not be lumped in with the lower-performing students or it promotes mediocrity. As for self-esteem, it is something that you EARN through your achievements! I am so tired of people pandering to children based on the concern of hurting the child’s precious “self esteem”. Go ahead and flame away!
By Dr. Craig Spinks
June 14, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
Gwinnett Educator, Are you saying that educating our children is not as important to the future of our nation as defending it from foreign dangers? And, are you saying that you shouldn’t speak out because getting a new job would be “hard?”
By Lee
June 14, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this
My concerns?
Brown vs. Board, Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, NCLB. Name me one time the federal government has poked its nose in education that hasn’t made it worse.
State DOE is about as bad.
Local administration. My wife has worked for about six principals in her career and I would classify only two of them as “competent.” The principal sets the tone of the school and if that tone is rotton, what do you expect.
Bad teachers. Bad administrators do not deal with the bad and ineffective teachers. If you’ve ever had the misfortune of having your child stuck in a classroom with a bad teacher, get ready for a year of pure hell.
Lack of discipline. Bad policy, bad administrators, bad teachers all contribute to the lack of discipline.
Over emphasis on teachers having multiple degrees and not enough emphasis on teachers who can actually teach. Degrees do not equal competency.
Social engineering. Schools have become little more than politically correct indoctrination centers.
That’s a start. I’m sure I’ll think of more in a bit.
By Gwinnett Educator
June 14, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
I meant fighting in the sense of putting one’s life in jeopardy (being killed or permenantly injured). That is the sense in which I was speaking of.
I agree on the future of our nation depends on the children that will be leading it soon and that it IS important. There are many things that are important, but then again, that word could be relative to many. What difference would education make if we were living in a state where there were bombings in our streets? How would our children go to school, etc? (if that is making sense)
And NO, I am not saying one should NOT speak out because finding a job would be HARD. I said that there are those who choose NOT to do so because it is indeed a fact..HARD.
I know of some (as I stated earlier) who have been driven out..some can not return to their county..some are trying for transfers, have been on interviews are being blocked, etc.
There are those that will make it almost impossible to even transfer. If you stay in the school, they ride you and nit pick until somebody breaks.
Even a teacher with advanced degrees in Education may have difficulty finding a job that they are qualified for due to the difference in their course of study and what is required for that job. NOW..that being said, you have a teacher that has been at it for 15 plus yrs that has finally gotten past the 60k mark or whatever (using that as an example). Tell that person to speak up and risk having to struggle to find another career and having to start off making 41k..
If I may ask, what is your occupation? Tell me if you would take a risk if your career would be placed on the line so that you can speak up?
And for the record..YES..I have spoken up to adminstrators. The first 3 that I worked under at my first school..I stood my ground to them in their face regarding issues that I believed in. The last one is what made me NOT sign my contract. I moved on. AND yes, I stood my ground with my current principal even on the LAST DAY OF WORK. What will next yr entail for me??? Who knows? All I can do is continue to do what I do and not worry about what somebody may try to do.
By Gwinnett Educator
June 14, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
LOL..oh dear. I just typed ALL that response and realized after the fact, I accepted bait. No more. Dr. WHO, you may bait others just so you can get them emotional so that you may try to find more fodder to poke holes in to.
It wont come from me…lol
Have a great Saturday!
By Rick
June 14, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
It takes a special idiot to send their kid to the government for an education and expect anything good to happen. For the loser parents who do so should be the ones to pay for them. Just like private schools, figure out how much it costs per child, the parent pays that amount. Your Kids don’t go to the school, you pay nothing. Public schools are for the future fast food workers.
By Time for a change
June 14, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this
Wow, Rick, You must be proud that your parents sent you to private school. Too bad that your English teachers apparently had a difficult time teaching you to construct a meaningful sentence.
This idiot sent both sons to public school - and one of them is at MIT! (Would that qualify as “expect anything good to happen?”)
Also, I know several people who’ve moved their children from the local ($15K tuition) private school because there are more opportunities at our local public school.
Put away your broad brush. Public and private schools can be excellent - and they both can fail to provide what students need.
By Time for a change
June 14, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
Gwinnett Educator is on target with noting the retaliation for “speaking up.” When you tell administrators what they don’t want to hear - even when you offer alternatives (because they tell you not to bring a problem without ideas for solutions) - you are labelled “not a team player” or your “loyalty” to the school is impugned.
Unfortunately, between the contract situation and the good old boy network, it can be extremely difficult to change schools, and burning bridges is guaranteed to make that worse.
Once again, if there was consistent quality leadership in schools, this shouldn’t be a problem, but… (you should see how little some of these ed leadership programs expect for certification and you’d understand.)
By catlady
June 14, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
Tony, here are my thoughts: principals and a.ps. and Central Office staff need SIGNIFICANT, RECENT CLASSROOM EXPERIENCE. (When I was graduating from college in the early 1970s you could not be ACCEPTED into a master’s program for administrators until you had 7 years of teaching experience. Apparently no more )Our current principal taught ONE grade for a few years then was booted into a totally administrative job at the c.o.—no instructional responsibilities in the least— then switched counties to take an a.p. job for a year and now has finished her second year as principal. She has many good traits but she REALLY NEEDS A LOT OF POLISHING. BTW, her degrees are from a diploma mill. In the CO we have waaayy too many people administrating things they have never taught. Lack of street cred really hurts. Foremost it hurts our kids, then the staff who tries to make up for the deficiencies in administration. I go ahead and say what I think and what I know and what I have experienced (in 34 years) and put up with being assigned “Siberia duty”. Most of my colleagues don’t do that. They either suffer silently or leave. I have been hung out to dry quite a bit. This year we are losing 6 regular teachers out of about 30, and many more would go if they could. Faculty and staff satisfaction is below ground level.
I have worked under 6 principals in all this time. Each had strengths and weaknesses, but all could have done better if they truly sought input from their staff (and listened).
By Rick
June 14, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this
Time for a change. You have no idea how happy I am that your kid is a t MIT, I guess they need cafeteria workers too. You are correct in the failure of both schools. It just seems that the government schools do it day in and day out. Pick a city and pick a newspaper. Every day. I am not painting with a broad brush, I am reading the broad strokes.
By Metro teacher
June 14, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this
I am a teacher in a Metro area high school. I have many suggestions for schools; my biggest 4 are: 1) Social services needed in the schools. Teen pregnancy, absentee parents, drug abuse, etc. all need to be addressed. Out of my 6 classes, I had at least 2 kids in 4 out of those 6 classes that were either pregnant or had kids, some more than one.There should be more social service providers in schools to meet the need of the students. One social worker that is split between 3 (or more )schools is completely ridiculous. 2)Bring back career tech programs.When I was in HS, I had a choice of culinary arts, early childhood ed or nursing. By 11th grade many of my classmates were in a coop program where they went to school for 2 days and worked for the rest. They were also given college credit and gained experience. Why not bring this back? GA seems to be stuck in the dark ages. 3)More variety of programs/classes. The simple 3R’s just don’t work anymore. We need those in addition to some creative programs and classes to treat the whole child- yoga, photography, geneaology,hip-hop ed. 4) Accountability- Everyone asks admins & school boards about what works best for schools. Many of these people have never set foot in a classroom let alone tried to manage one for very long.What about asking the teachers and students? All the blame is now placed on the teachers. Admins and School boards need to be held accountable for their actions as well.
By Dr. Craig Spinks
June 15, 2008 1:09 AM | Link to this
Gwinnett Educator, Lest you think I proffer for others that which I would not myself undertake, I went against administrations at the state departmental- and local board-levels four times during my paid education career. And, as you can read, I’m still at it in “retirement”- using my real name. Three times administrators tried to fire me. Once they succeeded. Twice my lawyers “wrapped them around the axle.” No job is worth my self-respect. Unfortunately for my profession and our children, too many of my colleagues don’t feel the same way.
By sav teach
June 15, 2008 7:07 AM | Link to this
1-the inner city attitude that comes off the street and into the school. Momma tells her precious children that it is ok to hit back, speak as if you have never heard the English language, don’t let anyone push you around, etc. 2-lack of any parental involvement. I teach “gifted” kids, and out of 100 kids only 3 showed up to school to pick up report cards and have a conference. If you are too busy at night to come talk to your teacher about your child who has failed all their subjects, or passed them, that sends messages. 3-lack of responsibility by administrators. How many administrators say they want a safe school, yet after the fifth fight in the same school year, some of the kids are still in class because the schools are so afraid of not making AYP. That is irresponsible. 4-state standards. I dare anyone to go look at GA standards and tell me they are acceptable. The entire fiasco with middle school social studies this year was because of badly done standards. 5-too many good teachers (like myself) who are ready to quit or move up north were education is a priority to most people, teachers get treated with some respect and are given a living wage. I made more in my first year of teaching with a B.A. in a small poor district in the north than I did with my M.A. and 7 years of experience here in Ga. 6-stop saying the public schools are “government” schools, you sound ignorant. The schools are run by the public and elected school board members, not the mayor or town council etc.By YL
June 15, 2008 8:11 AM | Link to this
Additional concerns:
1) DeKalb County: No alternative educational setting for middle school students (grades 6-8) who have failed more than one grade. At my school, many of these students are 15 and 16 years old and should be in high school. Parents should be outraged that their daughters and sons (average 6th grader is 11-12 years old) are riding the school buses with these “young adult” students. Many of these older students are disruptive in the classrooms and disrespective to teachers and administrators. Since “social promotions” are a thing of the past with the requirement for students passing (or attempting to pass) the CRCT and their classes, older students who fail are kept in the same environment. These students should attend school but in a more appropriate setting for them. DeKalb should look at programs in Atlanta, Henry County, Gwinnett, etc. for ideas.
The central office administrators in DeKalb County are so status quo…very few look “outside the box.” Their lack of creativity explains why principals, assistant principals, coordinators, area superintendents, etc. do not seem to develop innovative ideas and programs. Change begins at the top!
By WFC
June 15, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this
Principals with no academic teaching experience… band diectors, PE coaches, business teachers, etc.
By Atlanta Pearl Girl
June 15, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this
If the parents aren’t held accountable…. there is no hope. It’s not up to ‘teachers’ to try to iron out problems that aren’t being taken care of at home.
By Lee
June 15, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this
Ok WFC, I’ll bite. Why do you think a band director or business teacher is any less qualified to be a principal than, say, an English teacher?
By WFC
June 15, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
LEE: The primary reason is that those people’s limited (usually less than five years) experience in teaching is with students who are VOLUNTEERS. I coached football, basketball and baseball for over twenty years (also dealing with volunteers.) It was a totally different experience than what I saw in my “draftee” World and American history classes.
By Lee
June 15, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
A few more:
Eliminate the age / grade grouping. Made sense when you had segregated schools. Too much disparity in ability levels in todays schools to keep doing it.
Group by ability. Give those that need help / time the chance to succeed and allow the high achievers to move on.
Eliminate the teacher’s pay scale of years of service x degree level. It makes no sense to pay Phd’s to teach first grade or to pay PE teachers $90k per year while you complain that you can’t hire science and math teachers because of the low starting pay scale.
The college “Schools of Education” have become kingdoms unto themselves. Personally, I would rather have a retired Engineer teach math than some new Math Education major. At least the retired engineer could answer the proverbial “why do I need to learn this stuff” question.
I think I’ve slain enough sacred cows this morning. Time for another cup of coffee.
By just stating the obvious
June 15, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
History has shown that educators are not good administrators. It would be far more effective to put someone in charge of schools and school systems who has a business mind and can run the schools as a business…then maybe it wouldn’t cost taxpayers approx. $13K per year to educate, nay warehouse, each child.
By MENSAN
June 15, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this
Savteach, you hit the nail on the head with your point about teachers being paid a living wage in the north. This is because most school districts in the north are unionized and teachers in the north do not put up with ANY of the stuff that is doled out to the teachers in the southeast. Unfortunately, the only two states in the southeast that have teachers unions are Texas and Florida. It is time for Georgia teachers to organize and unionize if they want to be taken seriously.
By catlady
June 15, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
Have you noticed now how the school is expected to fit the student? Instead of the student fitting into the school’s expectations, it is the other way around.
I recall “the old days” when students of limited ability were out of school pretty quickly (after 7th grade or so) and students of very little ability were never in school. Students who misbehaved were put out. Students who got pregnant were put out. Parents who neglected their kids were arrested. Students who did not meet the achievement standards were retained until they did (or dropped out).
No “differentiated instruction”, no “small group needs-based”, no school social workers, no graduation coaches (now even at middle school level), no ISS, no reading/math coaches (for the teachers).
While I am not saying it was all good, maybe part of the problem is that we are trying to make the public schools “fit” a million kids with 2 million problems, instead of offering instruction to those willing and able to benefit.
Sounds like heresy, doesn’t it?
By Paul
June 15, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this
I also want to state an obvious.
Businessmen aren’t always the best educators. So, they shouldn’t be sticking their necks into curriculum and instruction issues. However, I think they can be excellent chief of school business office. I think it’s time to distinguish business and educational aspects of running schools and use appropriate people for each role. Only rare individuals can be excellent at both.
By Dr. Craig Spinks
June 15, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
MENSAN, so you imply that we Georgians don’t have enough education-related problems. You want to add another- UNIONIZATION. Go up North, join the union, make more money, pay higher living expenses, and enjoy the winters. Delta’s ready when you are.
By becky mattix
June 15, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
POOR LEADERSHIP AND DISCIPLINE PROBLEMS! That pretty much sums it up.
By me too
June 15, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this
You said it, CatLady!
By TheBlogger
June 15, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this
Here is a MAJOR concern….
In GA, the people most trained in education, the teachers, have less and less input on how to teach. Teachers in GA are becoming little more than robots that go through the motions decided upon by politicans and administration (and even by parents at times). Teachers are told what to teach, when to teach it, and how to teach it.
Whatever happened to the good ‘ole days of letting the teacher teach and supporting the classroom teacher?
Teachers are (supposedly) trained to teach content for the individual group of students in their classroom. But, in GA, over time, we have stripped away their ability to do the job the best way that they can. Then, we wonder why education in GA is slipping?
By Paul
June 15, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this
TheBlogger:
What to be taught should be decided by the society. That decision should not be left to individual teachers - unless they are willing to stick with the same students for the entire school career.
On the other hand, how and when (in what sequence) to teach is up to teachers to some degree. It is much more desirable that textbooks are created with much more care and thought so that teachers can really focus on how.
By MENSAN
June 15, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this
Dr. Spinks:
Actually, because both of my husband’s parents were both teachers and members of the teachers union in the New York City public school system in the 1970s-1990s they were paid a living wage and now have a decent retirement pension. Having seen what my mother has had to contend with in the DeKalb county public school system in the 1980s-present, I don’t blame teachers for going where they are appreciated and if that is up north, so be it. Regarding your additional comments, I am originally an Atlanta native who is currently stationed in the US Navy in Washington, DC and visit my family in Atlanta often. Therefore, I can tell you first-hand that the cost of living in Atlanta is nearing that of Washington, DC. It is abysmal what teachers are being paid in the southeast and how they are being treated when people expect teachers to do what parents used to do. PS. Glad to see you quoted Lewis Grizzard. He was one of the best writers for the AJC, God rest his soul!
By Gwinnett Educator
June 15, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this
We have to be careful of the notion that says..let the teachers teach. I do agree to that to a certain extent, but we do need a map of some sort (for lack of better words) or a pacing chart, etc. Imagine, if we were all told to just go in there and teach (speaking as an elementary teacher), the teacher that loves math will focus more on math and teach at the pace she sees fit. The teacher that loves ELA will focus more on that, so forth and so on. Then when the students go to the next grade, the student that came from the strong ELA teacher may have some struggling moments in Math or other areas.
I do believe we should be told HOW to teach our content areas. I am so sick and tired of being expected to teach XYZ in the same style as the teacher next door. We are always told that children have different learning styles. When we the higher ups realize that teachers have different teaching styles.
Have faith that we have completed our coursework and are armed with knowledge. Gives us the blue print and let us teach.
By Gwinnett Educator
June 15, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this
TYPO above…I meant we should NOT be told how to teach our content areas.
By TheBlogger
June 15, 2008 10:42 PM | Link to this
Of course, content per grade level (or per subject area) must be defined. But, it is crazy to micro-manage teachers. A teacher should be a trained professional that should be able to assess the students in a given classroom. The teacher SHOULD be given the latitude to cover material quickly when the class understands, and to slow down as needed for the students. The teacher SHOULD be able to take advantage of “teachable moments” to make learning relevant.
But, when the politicians or administrators say that teachers must teach content A in week 1, then content B in week 2, and so on, THAT is ridiculous. Just let the teachers teach! Just inform the teachers what the students need to know for the macro time period (year, semester, whatever) and stop with the micro-management. This is choking teachers and running the good and creative ones out of the profession.
Gwinnett Educator Your post is confusing. You are okay with being told what to teach each day, but not “how” because you feel that your mix of students may be different? What if you happen to have students particularly good (or already knowledgeable) in one area? Are you to hold them back until the schedule says that you may now proceed to the next content?
You don’t like the phrase, “let the teachers teach,” but you like “give us the blueprint?” I don’t see a heck of a lot of difference there!
By Margaret
June 15, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this
All I want is to see common sense and good stewardship of my tax dollars. Whose bright idea was it to say that children should be taught to subtract before they learn how to add? What other nonsense is being perpetrated - and this from the state DOE. I think those CRTC issues are showing us a LOT about the lack of competence in that office. Use your critical thinking and vote those nutcases out! Why can’t they understand that there are many good examples of schools that work - they do not need to invent some special new way of doing things - for heavens sake, copy those schools! We do not need to be the bad example for the country.
By Gwinnett Educator
June 16, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this
My wording was off. (I apologize for I was also dealing with my 1 yr old). I was trying to respond to what Paul was saying about letting society say what should be taught. I guess I assumed that it was along the lines of people saying ..just let the teachers get in there and teach. (for one, I cant see how we can agree as a society on what should be taught in the schools)
My issue with that statement is that there needs to be a balance. In other words, using what you said as the content area being “defined”…I said blue print but that is what I was referring to. (hence the phrase for lack of better words). The content area should be “defined”..”outlined”, etc so that all teachers are at least on one accord as to what the material is that they are responsible for teaching.
In the past, I have had to deal with the issue of moving on or standing still until the sign said go. I have moved on and will continue to do so when I see that it needs to be done while consistently reviewing the covered material. YES I have been told (even by a visiting county office person) that I shouldnt have been discussing that aspect of telling time because..”they would get that next yr”. I then asked why should I continue to focus on telling time to the hour, etc when they already have mastered it? What is the point of reviewing time to the hr for the next 2 wks when they can tell me with their eyes closed?
hope it was clearer this time…Im off to bed.
By Dr. Craig Spinks
June 16, 2008 2:48 AM | Link to this
Fellow MENSAN, as incredible as it may seem to you, outside of metro ATL, GA teachers earn relatively high incomes which finance relatively comfortable lifestyles. Based upon your comments, however, the GADOE’s adoption of “cost-of-living” adjustments for teachers in the metro area, a la the DOD, sounds reasonable. And Grizzard was a real hoot, wasn’t he? I miss his humor, too.
By jim d
June 16, 2008 7:31 AM | Link to this
#1: Lack of competition for public schools
2: Corrupt and change-adverse school bureaucracies.
3: School violence
4: Ever rising costs of providing education.
5: Teacher quality
6: Parental involvement (lack of)
By Maisy
June 16, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this
As an 8th grade teacher, my biggest school concerns are these:
By catlady
June 16, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
Our system is moving toward MORE micromanagement of teacher’s/class pacing. Last year we were given a new “map”. Now we have hired a “coach” who has redone the “map” SO THAT IT IS MORE SPECIFIC! Don’t consider that in a low homogeneous group 90% of the kids might not have the skills to undertake the lesson! That is what “need’s based” time is for! Somehow, magically, in 30 minutes, remediate 2 years’ worth of math concepts to most of the class while still providing grade level instruction that presupposes tha the kids have mastered up to grade level work. Remember, we “expose” the kids to instruction, rather than TEACH TO MASTERY, however long that takes. So, week 3, we will be doing place value for tenths and hundredths. Yeah, I know that most of the class has little concept of place value of whole numbers, but, the pacing guide says we MUST do tenths and hundredths this week. And our book (just to be used as a reference) undertakes tenths and hundredths in Unit 24, and is predicated on the idea that we have covered, and mastered, Units 1-23. It seems like someone wants to pretend that 1) teachers are incompetent idiots, 2) if a kid is below grade level it is because he has not had the proper instruction before, and can be “fixed” quickly, 3) all kids learn at the same rate 4) having no requirements for promotion means everyone is ready for the next grade’s work 5) “exposing” means mastering 6) if we hire a “coach” for the subject, everything will be okay. Wait a minute! Half the kids failed the CRCT in the subject! However did that happen!!!
The problem I have with homogeneous grouping is that all the work of the RTI falls almost exclusively on just a few teachers. An impossible level of “needs-based” falls on those same teachers. It is great for the bright kids and their teachers, however.
By jtt
June 16, 2008 7:00 PM | Link to this
GE,
If your students already understand how to tell time to the hour, and something beyond that is in next year’s standards, then I think a more appropriate use of your instruction time is to move on to other topics that are in your grade level. You never know how much extra time students might need to really understand something that are expected in the specific grade level. Moving ahead shouldn’t be considered until/unless you have discussed the entire expectations for the grade level first, IMHO.
By Gwinnett Educator
June 16, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this
jtt…the school that I was in (Dekalb County) was very iffy about doing “other” subjects during another subject’s time. Math was to be spent doing Math and nothing else. They would walk around, (knowing which block you were in from the jump) come to your room, check the lesson plans that were placed by the door and look to see if you were teaching THAT. If you werent, then you had to discuss it with them whenever you were called to the office to be “reprimanded”.
I understand your point about discussing expectations, its just at that time, I had gotten very frustrated with doing the same thing waiting until the green light to GO. We had made clocks, played time games, worked the clock, name it.
But that was then. So far in my present school, I havent encountered anything along those lines.
By Gwinnett Educator
June 16, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this
jtt …I also see what you are saying..If I couldnt move on to another subject area, I could have spent the time with an area in Math to review, etc. Well, at that time, we had a very difficult adminstrator (spent 1 or 2 yrs in the classroom) who was very particular about doing things a certain way. If that curriculum map said telling time..telling time it was.
However, I do see what you are saying. Point taken and will be applied if the situation arises again.
By shemeekea
June 23, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this
There are many problems facing education today. One problem that most of teachers are facing is that they are so underpaid. In order to make a decent living, a teacher would have to get more than a bachelor degree. Then it would cost almost 20,000 or more to continue his or her education. You would have to get a student loan. Then you ask yourself is all of this debt is worth staying such an underpaid, unappreciated profession? Secondly, we have too much paperwork which give a teacher a little time to teach. Everyday, this is due, and that is due. I just stop teaching and do the paperwork. Thirdly, there is too many pull outs. Students are being pull out for ESOL,DIBELS, and other programs, but the homeroom teacher is still responsible for getting all of the students to past the test. Also, administrators actually think that teachers suppose to give their entire life to their job after working hours without being compensated. I can deal with the misbehaving a little and the challenges to get students to learn, but it becomes very hard to deal with that all of the other requirements the state has bestowed on us. It is sad. That is why I am going back to school in the medical field so that I work hard and make more and extra money. Teaching has become a joke!!!!!