Get Schooled

By WFC

June 11, 2008 8:08 AM | Link to this

The CONCEPT of “school board” is seriously flawed. Watch the meetings of the Fulton County school board on COMCAST. The Board consists of seven women of independent means (their husbands’ income) who use their positions on the board as springboards to higher political office. They are all about procedures and policy, not learning. How little they know (or care to know) about the “nuts and bolts” of learning. In 2004, KATIE REEVES publicly (in the newspaper) attacked my lesson plans for Advanced Placement U.S. History because she perceived them to be anti-Bush. Of course, she never bothered to talk to me and discover the truth about the lessons. Luckily, my principal did. Reeves cared NOTHING about learning. She cared EVERYTHING about impressing her Republican cronies with a sound byte.

By Northview Teacher

June 11, 2008 8:16 AM | Link to this

If you want to know about bad school board members, look no further than Fulton’s own Ashley Widener. By her own admission, she knows nothing at all about education and only understands politics (right-wing, reactionary politics, that is). She is the prime example of what is wrong with the leadership of Fulton County Schools now, as the position for her is obviously nothing more than a stepping stone to a political position where she can do even more damage to our community and state. If you are ever unfortunate enough to hear her speak, you’ll quickly realize that her only depth lies in her insincerity and her only thought is for superficial self-promotion. The sad thing is, she seems sincerely to believe that she can fool us.

In turn, the incompetent school board members like Ashley have a vast array of administrative suck-ups willing to tell them constantly how wonderful they are and to fully support each of the many incredibly bad policy decisions they continually make. It’s all about Republican politics on the Fulton School Board. Anyone who doubts that might want to take a look at widener-associates.net, which is the consulting company run by Ashley’s equally sleazy spouse.

With the recent hiring of Dr. Loe (sounds like Dr. No—n’est-ce pas?), the Fulton County School Board finally got one of its own as Superintendent. Bob Burke must be regretting all the dishonest things he did to get in good with Ashley and company.

To improve school boards, the power lies in the hands of the voters. Don’t elect any more Ashleys.

By Mom

June 11, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

Our school boards are full of little royalty wannabes. In Newton County, if you have a question for the Superintendent, you must present your question to the board who then asks the superintendent your question (if they feel it to be a worthy question, lol). The “King” then answers his royal subjects that he will get back to them with a response at a later time - which 99.98 % of the time never happens. The royal subjects then relay the King’s response to you. If you attempt to speak directly to the Super, you will be admonished that you are not following the rules and you will not be allowed to ask questions in the future if this happens again. You are only alloted 5 minutes, so your entire 5 minutes is eaten up with their question the king process.

I am so glad mine are OUT OF SCHOOL and in college :)

By Ernest

June 11, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

I think the AJC article regarding the progress Clayco is making addresses most of the major points Making Progress in Clayton Sometimes board members ‘forget’ their role is to set policy and the day to day management is the responsibility of the superintendent. As I recall, many problems that BoE members have had around the state centers on this.

In some counties, the school system is the largest employer so that ‘may’ be the cause of some of the problems. When people are placed in positions of authority, they sometimes ‘repay’ debts with promises of contracts and/or jobs. Only those that are naive would believe this is something new.

They obvious thing BoE members should do is take mandatory training, every other year at a minimum. New members should take it every year for their first term. The other obvious thing is for stakeholders to step up to the plate and hold BoE members accountable. We do have the power to ‘fire’ them if we perceive they are not effective in doing the job.

By WFC

June 11, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

God bless you, NORTHVIEW TEACHER! I hope that my son, Beau, gets you next year! Widener is Reeves’ “mini-me.” Keep fighting the good fight.

By Tony

June 11, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this

Since school boards are elected, the best way to improve these bodies is to be vigilant in monitoring the activities during board meetings. One of the flaws in many Georgia counties is in how board members are elected. In our county, for instance, board members are elected by voters within their own district. This gives the board member a sense of allegiance to their own district as they act on behalf of the entire school system. In my parents’ county, board members are elected to represent a district where they reside, but the entire county votes for each board office. This way, the board member must remember they are elected to serve the entire county rather than their own district.

Again, as with any politically elected official the voters must be watchdogs!

By DH

June 11, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

What could have helped Clayton County? Several brain tranplants, but it’s too late now. The cavity that was suppose to hold the brain only held ego. Dumb and ignornat people elect dumb and ignorant people to represent them. My biggest fear coming out of Clayton County is that some of them may pick my neighborhood to ruin next and I still have three years left to work before I can retire and get the hell out of this city….and never look back.

By Tater

June 11, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Of course if the parents were given a voucher you could send your kids to private schools without the bureaucracy of dealing with the city, county and state.

The majority of public schools in Georgia DON’T WORK!! It’s broke, finished, done, stick a fork in it. The State DOE is worthless, do you think that the local school boards are any different?

By Tes Socra

June 11, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

Who is Mark Elgart and what school boards or supintenencies has he ever served in Georgia.

School boards clearly need more qualifed members with experience in leadership or business management.

Public service should be the motivation and not salaries and benefits so a max. per month of $100 plus milege should be the law in Georgia.

By catlady

June 11, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

Aw, ya’ll are bein’ too hard on the BOE’s. They know EVERYTHING there is to know about education—they ALL went to first grade!

Taxpayers and parents should be vigilant about attending Board meetings and watch for the rubber stamping that goes on. In our county the supt tells the board what to do, instead of the other way around. If the board looked up and saw the room FULL of parents and taxpayers, they might pay attention to what they are rubberstamping, and listen when the flaws in proposals are brought out. Heck, they might even SEEK some unbiased input !Unfortunatley our board does not know enough to ask questions, and they LOVE the sense of power they feel over the second-largest source of employment in the county! Every one guards his little fiefdom.

By jim d

June 11, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

I’m with you tater. Wanna improve school boards? The simple answer; Abolish them.

By Tater

June 11, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

catlady My thoughts are that having a room full of parents and taxpayers will never happen in public education. There are a handful, IMHO, who truly care about the school that their kids attend. The rest…Don’t care..

I wish that I could be more optimistic but I’m a realist. Parents who care about their kids will be involved with the teachers (the ones who do the work, not politicians.)

I would just thrill me to no end that the BOE’s and DOE GO AWAY!! Give the tax money to the parents and let THEM decide where to send THEIR kids. Seeing those yellow buses take students to public schools makes me ill.

To show you why this country is going to shambles from the inept government schools, go to http://www.barackobama.com/mobilev2/ and click text ringtone #1. How about having a potential president play rap music? Disgusting…

I’ve said it before, plan your escape route to a tropical island because if this inept human being is going to be our next president, prepare yourselves for more terrorism, higher taxes and a deteriorated health care system.

Ok, I know this is a stretch from today’s topic, but just think about the damage public education has caused. This country was formed on the education of the electorate in making decisions for the betterment of the country. Jolly ole England learned its lesson, I wonder if we have?

Tater off soapbox. Back to work to retire to tiki hut…

By Clayton Resident

June 11, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

If you want to make a chain stronger, get rid of the weak links. Same deal here. No More Blacks Serving as Weak Links on Our School Boards!

By AJ

June 11, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

Wow catlady, you must be in HallCounty too!

By AJ

June 11, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

Wow catlady, you must be in Hall County too!

By catlady

June 11, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

AJ—nope, but within 100 miles :)

Tes, I am also very discouraged about SACS after seeing it in action locally.

Tater—the same reason you cited for not looking for parents to show up at school board meeting is why your idea won’t work, either. Many parents are completely uninvolved with their children’s education (jim d being one of the more exceptional) Look at how many parents have EVER attended a meeting. In my county, maybe 1% have EVEr come. Not to mention petitioning, speaking, etc. When I was in Athens a decade ago, you could not even get parents to sign up for what school they would like their kids to go to (limited school choice).

If parents/taxpayers had any idea of some of the stuff (which they could find out if they made an effort), there would be h3ell to pay. But everyone just assumes that because the school board is “local folks” that they are doing the right, measured, responsible thing.

Clayton resident, I know you are trying to be provacative, but we have not a single minority member on our school board, and only one female. Yet our board “lays rubber” (get it—rubberstamping) to approve, no matter what idea our supt comes up with. NO ONE THINKS!

Laura what can you tell us about the research on the parents who opted into the sp ed voucher program last year? What will the evaluation process for the program be? How many stayed in all year? How many went back to public schools? How many eventally decided to home school? How many were from counties outside metro ATL? Why were so few applicants awarded scholarships (did I read 20%? about 1000 out of 5000 applicants?) What was the SES/racial breakdown for the parents who applied vs the parents whose children were accepted? What is happening for next year? The state has this data, and SURELY the legislation had a component for evaluation! (‘Course, I thought the state must have data for the CRCT—real, substantive data analysis—but apparently I was wrong on that : (

By catlady

June 11, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

Back to the original question: How to make school boards stronger? Get them gym memberships!

By Tater

June 11, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

Catlady

I believe (because I was one of them) that parents do get involved with their kids when they attend private school.

If you remember in some of my previous postings, not only did I pay school taxes, but private school tuition. Just about killed me working two jobs but my kids education was more important.

I just see public school as a dumping ground. I’m sorry, that’s what I see and read.

We have discussed how to change government schools, which will never happen, in this blog for a long time. Can’t we try something else since we continue to show the rest of the US and the world how truly stupid we are…

By Tony

June 11, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

Catlady, you shouldn’t be surprised to know that there was no real evaluation component to the Special Needs Scholarship legislation. The political movement towards vouchers does not ask about effectiveness of their programs. Charter schools is another good example. All the research regarding charter school performance gives mixed results. Private schools do not have to participate in statewide testing nor do they have to provide any performance data to the public. They are able to maintain “high” standards through their enrollment process.

By catlady

June 11, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

Tater, For a time, due to an impossible public school situation in another state, my kids were in private school as well. As a single parent, and graduate student working 2-3 part time jobs, I understand about sacrifice for putting your child in a better educational situation.

I agree that public schools are becoming more and more of a dumping ground. I think, with NCLB and the changes in sp ed, it will get much, much worse.

You value what you pay for; I have seen this many times. Kids at my school who cannot afford glasses and the Lion’s Club buys glasses for them, quite frequently destroy the glasses within weeks. Sometimes the L.C. buys set after set. However, when Dad is hauled before the judge and told to buy the kid glasses and see that they wear them or go to jail, the glasses are bought and not torn up. Funny about that.

Here is my idea: Each year the amount the parent pays in school taxes (either directly, or indirectly through rent) goes into an account. For some that might be $1000, or $5000. Then the parent HAS TO SIGN THE AMOUNT OVER TO THE SCHOOL FOR THEIR CHILD’S EDUCATION. All of a sudden, there is a VALUE attached to that education. Parents feel more of a sense of investment, rather than the entitlement mentalilty we have now. In theory that money could be signed over to a private school, but many of the students whose parents pay minimal school tax would probably be relegated to a public school willing to take their small amount. Parents in more affluent housing areas would have more money to carry with them, perhaps to sign over to a private school. Yeah, I like that! Parents right now do not see a connection between their property taxes and the school, especially when the taxes are hidden into their rent. I think this hold promise for getting parents more interested in schools.

By catlady

June 11, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

Tater, For a time, due to an impossible public school situation in another state, my kids were in private school as well. As a single parent, and graduate student working 2-3 part time jobs, I understand about sacrifice for putting your child in a better educational situation.

I agree that public schools are becoming more and more of a dumping ground. I think, with NCLB and the changes in sp ed, it will get much, much worse.

You value what you pay for; I have seen this many times. Kids at my school who cannot afford glasses and the Lion’s Club buys glasses for them, quite frequently destroy the glasses within weeks. Sometimes the L.C. buys set after set. However, when Dad is hauled before the judge and told to buy the kid glasses and see that they wear them or go to jail, the glasses are bought and not torn up. Funny about that.

Here is my idea: Each year the amount the parent pays in school taxes (either directly, or indirectly through rent) goes into an account. For some that might be $1000, or $5000. Then the parent HAS TO SIGN THE AMOUNT OVER TO THE SCHOOL FOR THEIR CHILD’S EDUCATION. All of a sudden, there is a VALUE attached to that education. Parents feel more of a sense of investment, rather than the entitlement mentalilty we have now. In theory that money could be signed over to a private school, but many of the students whose parents pay minimal school tax would probably be relegated to a public school willing to take their small amount. Parents in more affluent housing areas would have more money to carry with them, perhaps to sign over to a private school. Yeah, I like that! Parents right now do not see a connection between their property taxes and the school, especially when the taxes are hidden into their rent. I think this hold promise for getting parents more interested in schools.

By catlady

June 11, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

Sorry about a double post. Things are wacky here in Blogville today.

Tony, forget evaluative research! Just give us some simple cross-tabs! I’d like to know, for instance, that 45% of those who applied had incomes under $50,000 but that only 20% of them were accepted, for instance. Or that 30% of the students who applied had SLD issues, but 90% of them were accepted. Or that the majority of kids who were not accepted were already in private school when their parents made application. Or that, of the students accepted, 40% could not find a school that they would accept their child. Or that 30% of the students accepted left their private school during the year. How tough can that be?!? It seems like, given the money, our legislators would want to know this. It also seems like, given the challenges the DOE seems to have with the most rudimentary data collection/analysis, that a PRIVATE firm should be given the task of analysis, or at least auditing the DOE analysis.

By Tony

June 11, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

Catlady, those are reasonable questions and I would like to know more, too. However, the folks who have pushed this through would have a hard time explaining hard numbers that did not support their ideas. DOE has a mountain of data at their fingertips, yet no one seems to ask the right questions.

When it comes to data that requires tracking individual students, once the child goes into private schools there is no requirement to report any test data. Thus, there can be no comparison of public to private school results.

By TruthHurts

June 11, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

The painful truth is that school boards are political creatures. In fact, we want it that way. Why then are we surprised that, by being political, our school board members respond by acting politically?

Those who follow school boards decisions closely want to influence those decisions. But many times, that influence is not in the best interest of all students, but are self-serving.

For example, back in the day the Fulton County School Board was appointed, not elected. Even ten years ago the elected Fulton Board acted, generally, in the best interest of the entire county. Now, the Fulton Board, as is the case with many other boards, is highly partisan.

Why do school board members act in a highly partisan and parochial manner? Because the local education activists put excessive political pressure on board members. If, to take a real example, a group doesn’t like the local high school principal because he is not part of the “good old boy” network, then they go after him or her and the local school board member. It has nothing to do with quality education — it has to do with his or her support of sports (or whatever) or he or she participation in the local “good old boy” civic club.

Solutions?

First, school boards will never be any stronger until members get the backbone (or the political insulation) to stand up to citizens and PTA activists to do the right thing, not just the politically expedient thing. (And it has nothing to do with training of board members because they are required now, by state law, to have training each year.)

Second, all taxpayers need to pay more attention to what our school boards are doing. This blog, for example, has had 21 comments as of this writing. By contrast, the blog on cats has 58 comments. In spite of the fact that a Fulton homeowner pays more in taxes to the school board that he or she does to the county commission, most citizens just don’t care, until they have a problem.

The painful truth is that it is our fault because we get the kind of government (and schools, school boards, etc.) we deserve. We did it to ourselves…

By TheBlogger

June 11, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

IMHO, a school board should have representatives from: classroom teachers, school administration, parents, and local business leaders. I would have 2 teachers, 1 school administrator, 1 parent, and 1 local buisness leader - that would make 5 (to break any ties).

It is a mistake to have too large of a school board. There is no reason to have more than 5.

There should also be some rule that if a school board member misses X number of meetings, then their seat automatically goes up for election in the next election available. Those 5 people must be involved and active.

Also, the terms for school board members should be short (2 years seems good). That way, if a board member is ‘wacky’ then they can be up for election without too much damage.

Lastly, there should be an individual in the County (or City) police whos role is to ensure that everything is ‘up and up’ regarding school board members activities. I am sick of hearing how people in ‘power’ abuse their power for their personal advantage.

By catlady

June 11, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

DOE has a mountain of data at their fingertips, yet no one seems to ask the right questions.

Tony, I think I am asking the right questions. And surely any elected official worth his/her salt should want to know the answers to the kind of questions I am asking. Nothing complex, no multiple regression, no 5,000 variables.

And, actually, I don’t care about how the kids DO. I care about how the program seems to be doing. Is it meeting the needs that were so urgent? Are the parents (as measured by staying at their chosen schools) satisfied? I mean, it seemed like when it was set up it was to satisfy the parents, with increased student achievement (as measured subjectively by parents ) a collateral byproduct. So, all this money later, HOW DID IT WORK? I will be contacting my state representatives for the answers, because we all hate misusing public money, right?

Seeing the stuff spun (or incredibly poorly done) by the DOE and its hire-ees in some research institutes at large public universities here in the state, I call for an INDEPENDENT examination of the data by a reputable researcher.

It is hard to believe that the legislature funded this with no carefully drawn up plans for examination of basic data. Wait, no it is not.

Maybe OCR could push for this?

I think it is more like “no one wants to hear the answers of intelligently worded questions about this program.”

By Lee

June 11, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

The most important function a BOE performs is the hiring of the Superintendent.

Hire a good one, and the board can do the things they are supposed to - approve budgets, proper governance and oversight, etc.

Hire a bad one and most boards will feel compelled to get involved in the day to day stuff. Micromanage, if you will.

Often, the way board members get involved is when a parent cannot get past the bureaucracy and red tape and feel they have no choice but to give their board member a call.

Of course, you always will have a few with a Napoleon complex (petty tyrants).

By Tony

June 11, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

Catlady, I know you are asking the right questions. The people with the data and the ones making decisions are not.

By Tony

June 11, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

Lee, some of the worst behavior I have seen by BOE members is when there was a good, strong superintendent. The board members were not content with policy and budgets. They wanted control and power. Politically driven organizations naturally tend toward mediocrity by the very nature of politics - let’s make everyone happy.

By Aliyah Kai

June 11, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

The American Medical Association has doctors on its board; the Bar Association has lawyers. Aviators and engineers sit on the board of the Fed. Aviation Commission.

Ergo, a board of regents should run our school systems. They should consist of EDUCATORS (professors, teachers, counselors, etc.) whose sole purpose is the business of teaching children.

I worked for a BOE before becoming a teacher, and I’ll tell you this: out of the nine elected, eight were idiots who never read the resolutions or contracts they were asked to vote on! They had a knee-jerk response to every problem and made decisions without considering the ramifications for an entire system.

It’s time to dump this outdated system that’s been in place since the early twentieth century, and GA should lead the way.

By jim d

June 12, 2008 6:49 AM | Link to this

STRONGER? How about we just look for a way to make them SMARTER

By catlady

June 12, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

Attributes for a school board member:

Able to talk out of both sides of the mouth

Able to sit on the fence for great lengths of time

(everyone chip in here)

By Ansel

June 12, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Push more of the decision making down to the school level. Entrust school leaders with the power of making meaningful decisions without having to jump through the thousand and one bureaucratic obstacles district school boards force upon each individual school.

By catlady

June 12, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

Able to turn your back on what is good for the children

Able to focus on the goal of being re-elected

Won’t remove blinders.

Strong arm for backstabbing.

Holds tightly to the reins of power.

C’mon folks! Let’s get some more physical attributes listed.