Get Schooled

By jim d

June 2, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

My expierences have convinced me that schools really don’t want Dads involved. I think maybe because we aren’t as PC as many of the moms.

But as for the organization “DADS” I do have a few issues.

1: You’ve got people in a position of authority over students that haven’t, as a rule, recieved the proper training.

2: The schools haven’t and often can’t do back ground checks on non-employees that are allowed to walk the halls.

3: They are not under the direct supervision of school admin.

I fully understand the DADS program and will concede that it has benefitted some schools. However, I believe that the possible negative outcomes of the program out-weigh any positive aspects.

Personally, for whatever reason CCPS decided to eliminate access to the schools to these groups, i applaud their decision.

JMHO

By Lindsey

June 2, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this

That’s absurd!

What is the point of having a volunteer program in the schools? If corporations can come in and work with the students as lunch buddies, mentors, tutors, etc. Why can’t DADS?

In our school district every volunteer undergoes a background check. Just get these people clearance. Sheesh! People always complain about these children being from single parent homes with no male role model, yet, when someone steps in there is a problem.

In our district each volunteer undergoes orientation. I’m not sure what “proper training” they are supposed to have. Do teachers have “proper training”? If so, I say in many instances that training does no good.

CCPS needs all the help they can get.

By Jeff

June 2, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

Well, they can provide a positive male role model for one. MANY kids (in some communities, the VAST MAJORITY of kids) these days grow up with either no male present - for whatever reason - or with a BAD male (abusive, alcoholic, many other qualities) present.

Even in my own case, with an AMAZING dad, I needed another man in my life in my HS years to cement my destiny and show me the lessons that my dad either could not or that I had ignored in him.

These men can reach kids that even the kids’ own dads (I’m not counting sperm donors here, or ‘men’ than may as well have been nothing more than sperm donors) could not, and the kid will be better for it.

For any given DAD in this program, if he reaches a SINGLE kid, his involvement has been worth it.

I know in my own teaching experience there were a few that I was able to reach. And no matter what ANYONE says about me, I know that I helped those kids, and that my teaching career had a purpose in addition to its purpose in my own life. (It led me directly to T.)

Quite simply, dads provide things that a woman will never know nor fully understand. And even among other men, describing these things is difficult. We all know what they are, and we all (again, not talking about sperm donors) hope we can provide them to our kids, but explaining it? I would be better equipped to explain multi-dimensional Calculus.

Jim, Tony, V, Lee, others: I know y’all know what I’m talking about, and I’m going to ask if it becomes any easier to explain with age, and if so, can you please explain it here for the ladies? I’m pretty sure that this is one of those topics we’ll see eye to eye on at some level.

By Penguinmom

June 2, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

Just another example of how the Clayton Co Schools are working to NOT get their accredidation back.

I agree with background checks but it sounds like a lot of the DADs had checks done already. They could have just banned those who hadn’t completed their background check.

I have noticed that today’s men are definitely more involved in their kids’ lives than they were a generation ago. They take the kids out on their own, know what their kids are involved in and try to keep up with what’s going on.

To get them involved in schools is a little trickier because they often are at work during school hours. (And most Atlantans don’t work very close to their home/child’s school.) I like the idea of lunch visits if that’s possible. I think an effort could be made to let them know about opportunities to volunteer in the mornings on their way to work as well. Things like reading in the classroom or helping with the first class of the day.

Or try to get them involved with some of the afternoon/after school tutoring/study sessions. Dads with science or math abilites would be very helpful to the kids who are struggling in those areas.

By Tony

June 2, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

I typed up a post earlier but it seems to have had all the 1’s and 0’s knocked out of it somewhere between here and Atlanta.

jim d - I agree with most of your specifics about DADS. I would add that there is a strong smell of politics involved.

There is good parental involvment and there is bad. In general, involved parents make a huge, positive impact on a school. Unfortunately, there are times when boundaries are crossed and the results are terrible.

There is a difference between volunteering in school and being involved in your child’s education. When you volunteer, you are at school to support ALL students - not just yours. It is essential to recognize this. All too often, a parent will come to volunteer only to say things like in my child’s class or as long as I don’t have to work with other children. These attitudes interfere with volunteer programs.

Over-involvement includes the quid-pro-quo ideas that some have. I’ll volunteer so I can “pick” my childs’ teachers or similar. Some parents believe they have a right to determine which assignments are appropriate for their children and how grades should be assigned. I have even seen a couple of parents taking Accelerated Reader tests for their children and complain vehemently when the tests were disqualified.

On the other hand, the valuable aspects of involvement are tremendous. By volunteering, you show the importance of education to your child and all the others. We have an emphasis on parent involvement in our school that includes having at least two parents on our school leadership team. Our PTO is active and we have a parent resource center.

As far as getting fathers more involved, it is difficult because most fathers work during the school day. We schedule some weekend events during the year. We have had Saturday work days, fishing competitions, and other masculine activities.

Now I am getting into one of the points Jeff made. Dads (men) need to involved, too. Boys need to see positive male role models as they grow up. It is that simple. Men who take the time to volunteer in school are sending a non-verbal message that education is important. There are many social and cultural issues that could be discussed in this context, but the most important issue boils down to simply seeing men who are supportive of getting a good education.

By catlady

June 2, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Whenever I have had dads, moms, or grandparents volunteer to assist at school it has been GOOD. I understand the need for background checks; I also understand a basic training in procedures, legalities, etc. DO IT, Clayton Co, instead of making excuses! Geeze!

Hasn’t Clayon Co had ENOUGH politics? Hasn’t the county school system done ENOUGH to discourage its youth?

By Diane

June 2, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

After yet another headline grabbing issue involving the Clayton County schools, this time with the diplomas containing out of date signatures, I think the best thing Clayton County can do is just to hope to stay out for then news. It’s just one big issue after anoither and we’re wondering what’s going on down there. No other school seems so wrought with negative press. Here’s a goal, no news stories for a week, noe. Also, I was far from impressed with the new guy in charge form what I saw on the news this week-end. If he is the answer, what was the question?

By Diane

June 2, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

After yet another headline grabbing issue involving the Clayton County schools, this time with the diplomas containing out of date signatures, I think the best thing Clayton County can do is just to hope to stay out for then news. It’s just one big issue after anoither and we’re wondering what’s going on down there. No other school seems so wrought with negative press. Here’s a goal, no news stories for a week, noe. Also, I was far from impressed with the new guy in charge form what I saw on the news this week-end. If he is the answer, what was the question?

By Barrybtc258@aol.com

June 2, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

Looks like Old Doc Thompson is putting more nails in Clayton County’s Coffin! There are programs like Big Brother that has mentored many kids without a Dad as a role model. Many of these students would rely on being able to talk to a Dad but it appears Old Doc Thompson thinks he is the only person with an education! Well, I think he’s just another high priced educated idiot when he don’t sant parents involved. That’s what is most liking in Clayton County is role models and parents! I hope his contract has him repaying all of his earnings back to the county when he fails to bring them up to accredidation. But he’s probably spent every dime of it on pocket watches and fine suits!

By tonyac

June 2, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

Jim, I’m going to need to disagree with you on the DADS issue here. There were only a few days left in the school year, and the DADS group had been operating successfully without incident for some time. The way that he went about notifying the group was tactless and tacky. No need to turn people against you who could have been allies had you handled things the right way. The should have background checks, but they could have been informed in a more gracious matter.

In addition, this is not one of the NINE mandates SACS has out forth for correction. So maybe he needs to deal with REAL issues that make a difference versus trivial ones such as this that could have been tabled until SACS progress had been made.

By HS Teacher

June 2, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

ALL parents NEED to be involved with schools. IMHO, this is critical for student success.

However, I do want to qualify my statement. This does NOT mean that parents should come into the school or school system and expect to run the place. They should not even expect to run the classroom.

Well intentioned parents should act as volunteers that are there as helpers. As a teacher, I have taken advantage of well intentioned parents. They have helped with individual tutoring while I continued lessons with the class. They have helped with class set-up. They have helped with after school tutoring. They have even contributed with great ideas for lessons.

But my feathers would be ruffled very quickly if a parent walked into my classroom and started by criticizing me or my classroom. That is not and should not be their role.

Although I am no fan of Clayton Co. BOE, I can see why they might want the DADS program out of the way.

By Lindsey

June 2, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

Maybe I missed something. I saw nothing about these DADS trying to take over anything, classrooms or otherwise. Can someone please direct me to where this was stated in the article?

By ADL

June 2, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

Maybe Clayton County can have BabyDaddies take the place of DADS.

By tonyac

June 2, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

Lindsey:

It wasn’t the case. From some individuals I know that work in Clayton and have the DADS program in the school, it was a positive influence. They have actually been operating for at least 3-4 years I believe and up until their ouster had no issues with the schools or the school board (at least to public knowledge).

By Jessalyn

June 2, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

I heard of one school (I think maybe Centennial Place Elementary) that has pictures of fathers reading to students lining the halls. I think seeing something like that in schools would be very motivating to parents to become more involved.

Also, my child’s teacher would regularly include in her weekly newsletter something along the lines of “Mary’s father was Mystery Reader this week. I never saw Mary smile so big.”

By papa

June 2, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

A lot of dads have to work for a living, while a good percentage of moms get to stay home. This is why not as many dads can volunteer. We’d have to take a day off work which is often not possible.

By OldSchool

June 2, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

Off subject: I would love to see a class action lawsuit over those shredded diplomas. If Clayton Co schools are like our own, seniors pay for the diplomas themselves. I seriously doubt if any of them cared whose signature they carried. It was property bought and paid for and they should never have been shredded.

My own daughter graduated at a time when there was a change in supers. Her diploma did not carry the then current super and frankly my dears, none of us gave a dang. Still don’t. It was the name on the line designating the RECEIVER OF THE DIPLOMA that really mattered.

Back to the subject: I think as long as the volunteer dads are trained and supervised, they can be great assets. They should know and respect any limits set by the school or the teachers.

By catlady

June 2, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

Diane, re your 11:56—I am starting to think CCS WANTS to be in the paper every day for some sort of turmoil. (Bad press is better than no press??)

Re: the diplomas. Mr. Thompson was the “super” for about a month of these kids’ 12-13 years. He should be ashamed for sweating it over his name being on the danged things! The cost of replacing them should have come out of his (hefty) salary, rather than being absorbed by the printing company (and thus by the other users of the same company, who will, in the end, bear the costs of reprinting. You can be sure the cost won’t come out of the company’s profits!) Furthermore, first we are told they have been shredded, now we are told they have not. Can we believe ANYTHING, no matter how trivial, from this Central Office??!!

Now, back to the topic: I am sure it is possible for one of the “DADS” to make some sort of error, but deal with that “dad” as an individual (and be proactive about letting the DADS know the legal parameters). We have more dumb, time-wasting, mind-numbing rules for ALL because one person messes up! Teachers are ordered to individualize, but the C.O. wants to kill a fly with a nuclear bomb instead when there is a problem.

By Tony

June 2, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

OldSchool, while the actions to replace the diplomas is probably questionable, there is no grounds for a lawsuit. No one has been deprived of any property. The replacement diplomas are being delivered at no additional cost to the students. The action to bar DADS is also questionable. Alienating stakeholders will not line up well with meeting the nine standards required by SACS.

By Tony

June 2, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

Catlady - “but the C.O. wants to kill a fly with a nuclear bomb instead when there is a problem.” This is the best quote ever. Substitute Feds, State DOE, Governor’s office, or any other governmental body! Thanks for the material.

By OldSchool

June 2, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

I know, Tony. I was just ticked that he would choose such a non-issue and make an issue of it.

I also wonder if individual schools could be accredited without the central office/school board. If they can meet the standards, it looks like a conditional accreditation could be issued.

By Tony

June 2, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this

Most schools in Georgia are accredited as individual schools. The system accreditation is a new way of doing things. However, SACS has always been able to pull accreditation for the entire system when Board of Education matters interfere with the schools meeting the standards. My guess is that Clayton schools are individually accredited, but it is a moot point with its BOE in such a mess.

By jim d

June 2, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

John Trotter. John Trotter. John Trotter. The DADS Evacuation and the Diploma Demolition must the the handwork of John Trotter. I see his fingerprints all over these two episodes. He’s culpable. He must be. What do you think, Lisa B.?

By Vicki

June 3, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this

jim d - We know this is not the real you!

By Mom3Boys

June 3, 2008 1:06 AM | Link to this

My hubby came home very late from a business trip to Augusta this weekend. One of our boys is at a football camp, and the other two are having fun in the neighborhood (actually several neighborhoods within a larger community), biking, skateboarding, and just hanging out.

I was outraged at the antics of Kathy Cox at the Department of Education, but I am more puzzled and somewhat outraged at Dr. John Thompson, the new superintendent of Clayton County, who decided to destroy the diplomas because his name was not on them. Now, I see that he is kicking out the DADS from the schools. Is this another John Trotter scheme? Isn’t he responsible for all things that are found wrong in Clayton County?

I just finished reading the article written about Bill Clinton in the recent Vanity Fair. It looks like Bill is still getting his groove on in his campaigning for Hillary. Bill needs to get some counseling from Otis Moss, III. Obama has to leave his spiritual home. Opral left earlier.

Hey, John Thompson, get those DADS involved again!

By IRicki, yes, IRicki

June 3, 2008 1:26 AM | Link to this

Keep Norreese Haynes off the school board! Yes, he must have been the problem all the time. Since he was kicked off the school board on March 3, 2008, all has gone swimmingly for the Clayton County school board, right? No? You mean they are still looking stupid? Norreese Haynes, the Whistleblower, is off the school board. What the problem is? Hey, Eldrin Bell, you planned this whole mess, and Judge Deborah Benefield keeps propagating your mess, so what the problem is? Judge Deborah Benefield Must Go!

By Joao de Estella Maris

June 3, 2008 1:58 AM | Link to this

Paes. Sim, um paes precisam ser envolver em nossa escolas. Eu sou um pae de portugles. Vai Caos!

By jim d

June 3, 2008 7:20 AM | Link to this

Lindsey ,

However absurd it may be, having parents that aren’t accountable or that may not have been checked out thoroughly is opening our children up to possible abuse.

Personally I do volunteer a great deal of my time to working with young men ages 10-18 outside of the school. Background checks are done on each of us volunteers and even then we are prohibited from one on one contact with these boys. Two deep leadership is required at all times.

Please realize that my concerns are only for the children. There are some pretty sick people out there that would take advantage of a child’s trust and I would suggest that many of them have fathered children. Being a dad doesn’t eliminate the possibility that one may be a bit of a pervert or even a raging pedophile.

I personally do not believe we can be too protective, in this area, of young children.

By Lindsey

June 3, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

Um, JimD I never said that background checks should not be done. I said, “Just get these people the clearance.” As I stated earlier, if other corporations can come in and volunteer, why can’t DADS? I refuse to believe that not one member of this organization did not have a background check. Besides, it’s the end of the school year. The ones who didn’t have the background checks could have gotten them over the summer. To just kick them out — again IT’S ABSURD!