Get Schooled

By jim d

May 20, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

Laura,

A dear friend explained it much better than I ever could, here

By Anna

May 20, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this

I knew that when my sixth grader came home and asked me who Andrew Lloyd Webber was, he was in trouble. There was a SS question that referenced him.

By Anna

May 20, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this

I knew that when my sixth grader came home and asked me who Andrew Lloyd Webber was, he was in trouble. There was a SS question that referenced him.

By high school teacher

May 20, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

A 20% pass rate at one school would demand a close look at the teachers. However, a statewide 20% pass rate demands a closer look at the test and how it correlates with the new GPS.

By Anita

May 20, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this

Schools are like a Jerry Springer show, or a Maury Povich show, or some other drama-infested bad energy environment. I’ve got no expectation for our Gwinnett County elementary school anymore - after the dozens of bullying incidents that get shoved under the rug and forgotten, to the highly processed junk they claim as nutrients at lunch, we are home-schooling! If my child misses out on that type of socialization (which is always mentioned as a negative for homeschoolers), then I’m happy. What thinking employee would put up with that type of crap on the job?

Anyway, part of the reason kids do poorly (by school standards) is because the sickening drama that goes on M-F all day long.

By Ernest

May 20, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

JimD, I read the post from the link you provided. IF the CRCT contains questions that is not a part of the curriculum, Kathy Cox has got a lot of ‘splainin’ to do. As far as I am concerned, there should be some type of ‘map’ linking test questions to the curriculum so that there can be confidence in both. If that can be demonstrated, it would fall back to either the teacher (manner of instruction) or the student (whether they actually learned).

Whether or not people want to admit it, we should find out soon where the deficiencies in our education system exists.

By jim d

May 20, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

Ernest,

“Kathy Cox has got a lot of ‘splainin’ to do.”

Let me end the suspense, here’s how it will go down.

The questions on the test not pertaining to materials taught will be explained as “TEST” questions that supposedly did not count against or for a childs score.

Been there done that in Gwinnett with the Gateway years ago. Gwinnett set the standard for lieing and deceptive test practices that will be used by the State.

By high school teacher

May 20, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

jimd, the link that you provided is blocked by our server. Can you summarize its contents please? I would greatly appreciate it.

I am very concerned about these test scores; even though it doesn’t directly affect me because I teach high school English, the implications will have a huge ripple effect. I still find it hard to blame teachers when the statewide pass rate is so poor.

By mom3boys

May 20, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

My students were pretty mad after the test…they could not understand why they were asked questions that were totally unrelated to the curriculum. The standard answer has always been “those are just sample questions…they won’t count…” but apparently they do!

By jim d

May 20, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Ernest,

Let me also point out that public schools are no longer about providing children with an education, they are merely lucrative places of employment for friends and family members of those running them. Truly they understand public mentallity and will continue to provide an inferior product claiming a need for MORE MONEY enabling them to draw even fatter salaries in the future.

I really fear I’ve lost all hope in our ability to repair our current educaational system.

By Donald

May 20, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

As a retired teacher, I can assure you that there are questions on the CRCT that do not pertain to the curriculum. I never did understand this unless one looks at the possibility that it gives credence for an administrator or administration to rid themselves of a teacher!!!! After all, it’s always the Teachers fault(sic)!!!!!

By jim d

May 20, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

high school teacher,

Blocked? Really? OH!! you must teach in Gwinnett! Yeah, Napolalvin isn’t real fond of us. Think it has something to do with his self image.

Here’s the last few lines from the other site.

“The straight-A student told her mom the social studies exam included material never taught in class”

“Yo Kathy, did you read this line?” “Now, I’m no State School Superintendent, but making the test “harder” by asking kids about things they haven’t been taught just might make the scores go down.”

“Then again, I could be wrong. If you find out demanding better results without changing the measured process really works, let me know how you did it.”

“I could really use that 30 MPG.”

By Ernest

May 20, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

You may have a point there, JimD. On the other hand, many school districts around the county are implementing dashboards with a series of metrics, enabling stakeholders to review and compare. Could you imagine going to a public dashboard and comparing Gwinnett to DeKalb then to schools in the Northeast using the same criteria? As more transparency is brought to the process and information gets into stakeholder hands, we should see improvement. When there is greater visibility, greater accountability should follow.

BTW JimD, would you like a pair of the ‘rose colored glasses’ I’m wearing…. :)

By jim d

May 20, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

Ernest,

Fraid i’m wearing a pair of those dark mirrored aviator glasses. “As more transparency is brought to the process and information gets into stakeholder hands, we should see improvement. When there is greater visibility, greater accountability should follow.”

I couldn’t agree more, I suspect that maybe why GCPS under the direction of Napolalvin don’t want to post their check ledger on the counties web site. (although it is all available if one cares to go thru the tedious process of filing an open records request every month.)

By Lynn

May 20, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this

Having 2 students taking the new Math curriculum this year (an advanced 7th grader and on level 8th grader), it has been apparent since early in the school year that this new Math curriculum is seriously flawed. Teachers were struggling to teach the concepts and the majority of students could not comprehend the content. When test averages across 300 hundred students is a 54 then I would say the content is not being understood. I feel for the students and teachers who have struggled this year. Now with the state saying that 40% were expected to fail, the effort seems futile.

By 8th grade mom

May 20, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

My son passed the 8th grade math test by the “skin of his teeth.” I am a also a teacher and I agree that Georgia needs tougher math standards, however, I disagree with how the new standards were implemented. This year’s 8th grade students were introduced to the new standards in the 6th grade. Our DOE implemented the new standards at the middle school level BEFORE they implemented the new standards at the elementary school level.

I have a few questions that I would like Kathy Cox to answer: 1-Is it fair to retain close to 40% of all 8th graders in GA when this is the first group to experience the new math standards? Isn’t it true that anytime new curriculum is implemented, test scores will typically drop with the first group of students? If you expected that many students to fail, what was the DOE doing to address the issue? What is YOUR plan for helping these students make up the huge skills gap that was created when you chose to implement the new standards in 6th grade as opposed to 2nd or 3rd grade? 2-How can you justify retaining a student based on ONE test score? If that student performed well throughout their 8th grade year AND passed the other content areas on the CRCT, is it reasonable to expect that student to repeat an entire year of 8th grade?
3-How much is it costing to retest the 40% that did not pass the CRCT? Is that a judicious use of money?

By HS Teacher

May 20, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

Here is what I see, IMHO…

Middle school teachers often seem to focus way too much on the social aspect. When I speak with them, they talk about the hormone changes going on in the their student’s bodys. They seem to totally forget about teaching their students content. They try to make school ‘fun’ and ‘interesing’ and ‘inspire’ their students. But, they never really teach the CONTENT.

This changed a little bit with repect to math and English because of the CRCT and NCLB. Now that social studies is included and those scores published, I am sure that the middle school teachers will be teaching social studies content.

If you think that social studies scores are bad now, just wait until they include science in the CRCT! I regularly hear of elementary and middle school teachers simply leaving science out of the curriculum all together because they focus on math and English in order to make AYP.

I teach HS science. We regularly get freshman that have zero science knowledge. They don’t know the most basic thing such as the part of an atom. I have had students tell me that in middle school, they had science teachers that taught math. They had science teachers that let them play games (monopoly, etc.). We get those students and then must “make magic” so that they pass the high school end-of-course test in chemisty (for example). And, also they must pass the graduation test - which is supposed to be a test of their 12 years of education.

But, if students don’t pass the graduation test it is the high school that is penalized, not the middle or elementary school.

By SSteach

May 20, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

YES!!! Just looked at my 6th SS scores….96% met or exceeded. The exceeded portion is WAY down from last year. To be clear, I TAUGHT THE STANDARDS. I’m a little down, but in comparison to 20-30% pass rate across the state, I’m celebrating with 96%!!!

Problems with the test remain, but the BIG PROBLEM is people NOT TEACHING THE OUTLINED STANDARDS (at least in 6th grade SS)

By Janine

May 20, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

Unfortunately, Ms. Cox, et al , apparently fail to comprehend that questions on a test must address the material covered if the results are to be valid. Otherwise,it’s like taking a class in Perfect Pasta Prepartation and being tested on the procedure for making a coconut cake!!!!! Also,there is no reasonable explanation for throwing in those so-called samplequestions that are unrelated to course content.
In addition, regarding the Math portion of the CRCT: Problems are presented/taught in class in one format, and then are often presented in another format on the test. While that indeed does evaluate a skill, it does not necessarily evaluate what it purports to evaluate, i.e. whether the student has mastered the material taught.

By ByStander

May 20, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

Don’t mis-interpret these numbers to mean that 40% of the students will be held back. There are many many loop holes that middle and elementary schools use to promote those students any way.

Students learn that they can fail and will be promoted anyway….. until high school. That is why we have a high drop out rate in high school!

Are things starting make sense, now?

By jim d

May 20, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

HS Teacher,

no offense meant—-It is supposed to be about the students. I could give a rat patutty which school is penalized. What about the kids? They’re penalized for a life-time, not just a year or two.

By jim d

May 20, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

Cost of summer school = Suplemental Teacher Income.

Not a bad deal for those teaching during the summer instead of “HAVING SUMMERS OFF” (LOL)

Cat, I’m saying that TIC

By Lynn

May 20, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

My Cobb middle school stated that results were not received until yesterday afternoon and a decision has not been made about when scores will be released. Other counties have been releasing results for a week or more.

By HS Teacher

May 20, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

jim, Yes, it is about the students. No doubt. And, it is the students that must learn the content as outlined because it is the students that are tested.

If the students don’t learn the content then they should not proceed to the next grade, right? Or, do you disagree with this statement?

If there is a teacher(s) that does not teach the content, then they need to be fired or retrained, or whatever. Right? Or, do you disagree with this statement?

Think of it this way. You are making a ceramic mug. It is all about the mug. But, if the kiln is not hot enough, the mug doesn’t set. If you focus only on the mug and ignore the kiln, the mug is a failure. Similar to education. It is all about the student. But, if the teacher isn’t teaching the content, the student will fail. A weak analogy maybe, but I hope that you get my point.

By Ernest

May 20, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

JimD, I realized you said that TIC but if you are into conspiracy theories, could this also be a preliminary move to year round schools and/or extending the school year? Talk about increasing the education budget, that would do it. The the question would be what kind of ROI are we getting from that.

By jim d

May 20, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

ernest,

I’ve actually pitched Multi track year round school to the GCPS BOE a few years ago. I kinda like the thought of not having to pay for more schools and books and having buildings setting empty for a few monthes every year. I also like the staggered off time for remidiation of students in need, smaller class sizes and fewer teachers. I hear teachers here bemoaning the fact that they are payed for the whole year—let them do as the rest of us do and actually work it (NOTE; PAY THEM ACCORDINGLY)

The benefits of YRS far outweigh any negative aspects of it and could actually cut expenses in the long run

By jim d

May 20, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

H S teach,

I think we are in agreement that the kids need to learn. My comment was directed at this sentence.

“But, if students don’t pass the graduation test it is the high school that is penalized, not the middle or elementary school.”

My point being that we can point fingers all day long but nothing will change and it is the children that will be penalized far worse than any “school”

By PF

May 20, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Bottom line. Cobb County & Georgia Education system is awful. It is no surprise that kids aren’t and can’t succeed. In Cobb County, the math ciriculum has changed at least 3 or 4 times the past 8 years. It seems like every two years the school decides to try a new pilot circulum. As a result, there is no continuity to what is being taught from year to year. And, it is going to happen again next year. The high school is going to change the circulum from Algebra, Geometry, Advance Algebra to Math 1, Math 2, Math 3. Here we go again, the poor kids entering high school next year will get to start all over again from scratch. Another example of the teaching inconsistency in Georiga schools, the high school in our area just started teaching sophomores Conceptual Physics. Physics requires a student to have a basic understanding of Calculus. Guess what, sophomores haven’t yet taken Calculus, so it isn’t any surprise that kids sturggle to succeed. Another problem, is that teachers do use books to teach. Don’t get me wrong, they have books, they just don’t use them. A book is designed to teach a student in a organized manner, building on concepts as you move forward. In Georgia schools, teachers pick a section of a book, spend a day on it and then move to another totally unrelated topic of study the next day. Students are given homework, but don’t have a book with sample problems they can reference to learn from. Like I said, the bottom line is, the Georgia public school system is brokem. If you want to give your kids a chance to succeed, home school your kids or put money away and save for a private school education.

By Tater

May 20, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

jim d

Where is JustMe with all of this? Guess she’s not taking advantage of the Summer School indoctrination.

Ah, government schools… Another colossal failure. How about closing the state DOE and give the money to parents for school choice?? Yes, I know it will never happen.

jimd You are right on about the hiring of friends and family in the system. I really do feel for the majority of teachers who are well qualified to teach the students. Unfortunately we are paying a heavy price for the babysitting service they provide (through no fault of their own. I detest the layers of administration).

By Valencia Thornton

May 20, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

* New Format*

I think that many 8th graders were prepared for the test. I think that the format of the test was quite new to students. Teachers as well as adults must get use to taking test in the format that 8th graders encountered. I really anticpate improvements with the test scores in the near future!

Valencia Thornton C.R.A.M. Academy, math consultant cramacademy@yahoo.com

By jim d

May 20, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Tater,

Glad to see you’ve decided to grace us with your (CHOICE) presence once again. Welcome back! ;-)

By hs sped

May 20, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

Fayette County is in the same boat. A lot of failures (and the link by jimd is blocked here, too).

The kids will go to high school regardless. They always have in the past whether they remediate over the summer, or not. Summer school pay is based on highest degree and entry level pay (in this county). So, who does that leave to teach summer school? I know that with 14 years experience (that I won’t get paid for), it won’t be me.

Bottom line, we’ll get the kids that failed and have to bring them up enough to pass the GHSGTs.

Fun, fun, fun.

By Tater

May 20, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

jim d

I just got sick to my stomach trying to explain to some of the posters what a failure government schools are in Georgia. It’s like beating my head against a wall. Rather have a root canal :-))

By MSTeach

May 20, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

I have to disagree about middle school teachers focusing on the hormonal and social aspects of their students.

The middle school teachers work hard and try to make their students learn. But the kid isn’t going to study or do their homework, fighting, getting suspended, and being a disruption, what can the teacher do?

Option 1 for my school is: Saturday school for the students. They come (some come for the Chick-Fil-A) to brush up on those skills, which they lack.

Option 2 for my school is: after school tutoring. And then there is extended day.

A school bus comes and picks the students up for Saturday school, and extended day (the bus comes at 4:30 and 5:30).

So there is no reason why the students shouldn’t pass the test.

By MSTeach

May 20, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

I have to disagree about middle school teachers focusing on the hormonal and social aspects of their students.

The middle school teachers work hard and try to make their students learn. But the kid isn’t going to study or do their homework, fighting, getting suspended, and being a disruption, what can the teacher do?

Option 1 for my school is: Saturday school for the students. They come (some come for the Chick-Fil-A) to brush up on those skills, which they lack.

Option 2 for my school is: after school tutoring. And then there is extended day.

A school bus comes and picks the students up for Saturday school, and extended day (the bus comes at 4:30 and 5:30).

So there is no reason why the students shouldn’t pass the test.

By Tater

May 20, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

jim d

I just got sick to my stomach trying to explain to some of the posters what a failure government schools are in Georgia. It’s like beating my head against a wall. Rather have a root canal :-))

By Hope U Fix It

May 20, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

I read that Ms. Cox stated that the DOE is looking for a reasonable way to handle the situation. The answer is to reduce the pass/fail score for this years 8th graders by 20%. For next years 8th graders raise the pass/fail score back 10% and then the next year put it back at the normal level, since these would be the first gorup of students that have been under the new circulum for all three years of middle school.

It is not rocket science to figure out the right thing to do!

By abcdefghijklamnop...

May 20, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Parents don’t care if their children learn anything. What they are concerned about is whether their child passes the grade and gets a decent GPA. Unfortunately, these tests prove that the students aren’t learning anything. Why? Because learning is not the goal; passing with a good grade is. I have parents coming to me all the time wondering what I can do to give extra credit when the child isn’t doing the required work.
So the tests speak to the fact that the parents don’t care about learning; therefore their children don’t care about learning.

By abcdefghijklamnop...

May 20, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

Parents don’t care if their children learn anything. What they are concerned about is whether their child passes the grade and gets a decent GPA. Unfortunately, these tests prove that the students aren’t learning anything. Why? Because learning is not the goal; passing with a good grade is. I have parents coming to me all the time wondering what I can do to give extra credit when the child isn’t doing the required work.
So the tests speak to the fact that the parents don’t care about learning; therefore their children don’t care about learning.

By HS Teacher Too

May 20, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

“I hear teachers here bemoaning the fact that they are payed for the whole year”

Wrong, jim d. Teachers point out that they are paid for 10 months’ work, but the pay is divided proportionately over 12 months’ time.

Teachers are paid for a 190-day school year and are not paid for their summers. However, the local school systems, apparently believing that most teachers are idiots and can not budget accordingly for their summers, distribute their pay over 12 months. In school systems elsewhere, teachers have an option as to how they would prefer to be paid — that is to say, over the 12 months, or as they work their hours. That leaves some teachers with bigger checks during the year and none during the summer.

Tater root canals aren’t that bad! Please don’t quit trying to explain what’s wrong with our schools. When people give up, we end up stuck with the system we have, and stuck watching it worsen (yes, it is possible…). We need to keep fighting to fix it!!

By Teacher, Too

May 20, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

jim d- When I taught in Gwinnett County, I too sent in numerous requests, through our school rep, to consider a balanced calendar. Students would go nine weeks on and three weeks off- with remediation for failing students during the intersession.

He wouldn’t even consider it. I would much rather teach on a balanced calander- less teacher burnout, less student burnout, meaningful remediation, etc…

By jim d

May 20, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

Teacher too,

there may still be hope. Seems when I approached the topic, one redheaded BOE member seemed at least attentive and somewhat interested in discussing the topic.

By Hmm

May 20, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

abcdefghijklamnop *So the tests speak to the fact that the parents don’t care about learning; therefore their children don’t care about learning. *

That’s some seriously crazy logic you got there. The tests don’t represent the parents effort or values. My kid has issues turning in work on time, do I care? Certainly. Do I provide consequences? Of course. Do I escort him around the school and handhold him, practically turning in the work for him? Of course not. So, by your logic, parents just don’t care and don’t value learning? Amazing.

By jim d

May 20, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

HS teacher too,

That’s what I meant. :-)

I also stated they should be paid for working the “down time” if they elect to do so. In essence earning a couple of extra months pay.

By high school teacher

May 20, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

jimd, I love the idea of 9 weeks on, 3 weeks off, with remediation as necessary. I even created a model calendar on it! Alas, we are in the minority.

Ya know, Disney in February is much cheaper and much cooler than in July. Too bad we can’t do the balanced calendar!

By catlady

May 20, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

jim d—don’t bite your tongue (TIC at 11:18) :P

Actually, I think SOMEONE profits by the children having to go to summer school—not necessarily the students. I fail to see how 16 days (12 this year) of instruction in summer school can surpass 180 days of instruction the rest of the year. Maybe it is motivation, maybe it is that the test scores are manipulated….

BTW, I asked Laura to find out and publish the cut scores for the “gateway” grades. Last year, in math 3rd and 5th a student had to get a mere 27 correct (out of 70) to “pass” with an 800. Of course, there are 15 “practice” questions included, but still that is a sorry percentage (48%)to have to get right to pass.

My perception, based on the kids passing the reading portion, is that it has been recalibrated, or else we’ve taught them better how to guess this year.

By HS Teacher Too

May 20, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

Sorry, jim d — I just re-read your post and see what you were saying. I read it differently the first time.

As to your other topic today, talking about year-round schools, I have my own ideas about them, but I am interested to hear why you think they are such a good idea.
Personally, I have not ever given them considered thought — it’s not yet come to where I’ve had to — so I am hardly adamant.

By Teacher, Too

May 20, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

jim d, I’m no longer in Gwinnett County, but when I was, my students made a quilt honoring that certain “red-headed” schoolboard member.

Despite all the negative press about teaching, and despite all my frustration throughout the school year, this is why I haven’t changed careers:

Several of my students wrote me unsolicited notes today about the impact I have had on them for the past three years (I loop with my students). I sat and cried when I read them. One student mentioned that she remembered me coming to her piano recital when she was in 6th grade, and how I was the only teacher who came. Another told me that she feels prepared for high school because of me.

I’m not trying to toot my own horn, or brag about myself. But in the grand scheme of things, I’ve made a difference in my students’ lives. That’s why I teach and that’s what makes teaching worth all the rest of garbage that comes my way all year long. I just have to remind myself of that every once in a while! :)

Sorry- it’s been an emotional hour for me.

By Tater

May 20, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

HS Teacher Too

Unfortunately nothing will be accomplished on this blog because the people in power in the school system will never be open to new ideas. It’s always about the money or politics, in this case it’s both.

We can only save the children in our families. The rest are simply screwed by their parents, a failed school system and the State of Georgia.

Want to stir up some discussion, abolish the state DOE. If Kathy Cox is perplexed as to what the problem is, she is incapable of being a leader in DOE.

While on my soapbox, the bonehead from Bonaire hasn’t done a damn thing to help education in Georgia either.

5 more years and I’m out of this state permanently..

By Tater

May 20, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

HS Teacher Too

Unfortunately nothing will be accomplished on this blog because the people in power in the school system will never be open to new ideas. It’s always about the money or politics, in this case it’s both.

We can only save the children in our families. The rest are simply screwed by their parents, a failed school system and the State of Georgia.

Want to stir up some discussion, abolish the state DOE. If Kathy Cox is perplexed as to what the problem is, she is incapable of being a leader in DOE.

While on my soapbox, the bonehead from Bonaire hasn’t done a damn thing to help education in Georgia either.

5 more years and I’m out of this state permanently..

By Tater

May 20, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

HS Teacher Too

Unfortunately nothing will be accomplished on this blog because the people in power in the school system will never be open to new ideas. It’s always about the money or politics, in this case it’s both.

We can only save the children in our families. The rest are simply screwed by their parents, a failed school system and the State of Georgia.

Want to stir up some discussion, abolish the state DOE. If Kathy Cox is perplexed as to what the problem is, she is incapable of being a leader in DOE.

While on my soapbox, the bonehead from Bonaire hasn’t done a damn thing to help education in Georgia either.

5 more years and I’m out of this state permanently..

By HS Teacher

May 20, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Tater - I agree that the State DOE should be abolished. I also agree that all pencil pushers in all school systems should be abolished. Allow individual schools to operate locally without restrictions. Allow teachers to decide how to teach the content to the best of our ability for the students sitting in front of us.

Then, watch the scores go up.

By Tater

May 20, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

HS Teacher - Absolutely. I’m really very tired of all the excuses, blame Bush, blah, blah, blah.

I do have a defeatist attitude about this topic because I know that we will be the proud recipient of the coveted worst school system in the United States of America probably within 3 years.

I’m also tired of some of the posters on this blog, I believe you know whom I’m talking about, saying how more money will solve the problem.

The school system in Georgia is toast. Stick a fork in it.

HS Teacher, please understand that I am very proud of the work that you do with your students. You, like most of the other teachers, are handcuffed by a bureaucracy that has an insatiable appetite for money and power. The students are not important. Just remember, money and power. These two items answer all questions you could ever have about government schools.

Sorry to be such a pessimist, but it is what it is…

By HS Teacher Too

May 20, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

Tater, I understand your frustrations. And I know that this blog isn’t going to change much — but it may change a few minds, and those people may change a few more minds, and maybe, one day, we’ll have enough of a maelstrom brewing that we can change policy. No, I don’t think it’s any time soon — but every time I see a person walk away with their shoulders sunk, defeated and tired of trying to make a change … it’s another win for the people who make this system as god-forsaken and awful as it is. So I hate to see you go, and I hate to see you give up, because we need MORE people who are fired up the way you are. Otherwise, the only people who make the rules are the ones who we already know are idiots.

By HS Teacher Too

May 20, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

Tater, I understand your frustrations. And I know that this blog isn’t going to change much — but it may change a few minds, and those people may change a few more minds, and maybe, one day, we’ll have enough of a maelstrom brewing that we can change policy. No, I don’t think it’s any time soon — but every time I see a person walk away with their shoulders sunk, defeated and tired of trying to make a change … it’s another win for the people who make this system as god-forsaken and awful as it is. So I hate to see you go, and I hate to see you give up, because we need MORE people who are fired up the way you are. Otherwise, the only people who make the rules are the ones who we already know are idiots.

By Tony

May 20, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this

Georgia has issues with quality control for the state mandated tests. Teachers are berated for even thinking about looking at test items, yet this is the only way to assure test quality. When a test does not measure what it purports to measure, it is invalid.

A personal experience with this occurred last year when I attempted to report an error in a science question. I was told that I was not allowed to look at the tests as they were administered. This, even though I am in charge of assuring the delivery of the curriculum. How absurd! An error on a high stakes tests takes away from its validity.

The real losers in the testing frenzy are the children and future generations. Believe it or not, the only effect of such intensive testing that will last is the narrowing of the curriculum in schools. This means our brightest and best will be forced to endure more and more mediocre instruction as energy is spent trying to bring everyone “up”!

Does the failure on these test add proof to all the claims of failure of public education? In many minds that answer will be yes. It is easy to jump to that conclusion when the only news you are ever given about schools is bad news. If you want to save our future you will help switch the course of public education away from high stakes testing and help restore local control of schools to states and counties.

By Jeff

May 20, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this

Its not only CRCT…

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/05/14/aird

By Lee

May 20, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this

I guess it’s up to me to put everything in proper perspective….

We taxpayers are relying on the same knuckleheads that drove this educational system into the ditch, the same knuckleheads who determined that a Tweety Bird keychain is a deadly weapon, the same knuckleheads that pass students from grade to grade and graduate illiterates, to develop a curriculum and a standardized test to measure student performance pursuant to that curriculum.

Needless to say, they screwed it up again.

By Allison.

May 20, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

I teach high school AP American History with 100% pass rate for EOCT and GHSGT. However, when my students tell me that they were asked who the first president of the AFL was and who wrote Silent Spring, I knew that many scores would be bad. The new GPS is all about high level thinking. I dont think that these type of questions involve evaluation and synthesis. We have spent the entire year working wiht information processing skills and critical thinking. I guess we should have just used the encyclopedia of useless facts. If the CRCT was like the EOCT, I am not surprised about the scores.

By HS Teacher Too

May 20, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

Jeff, that article is amazing. I am going to print it and save it. When people ask me what I think is wrong with education, I will hand it to them and say, “Here — take a look!”

Unfortunately, the attitude of the NSU admistrator has trickled down to every possible nook and cranny of public education. I actually had a department head tell me that “the expectation” was that my class averages would be Bs or higher without regard to who was in my class. We need look no further than the “no lower than a 60” grading policies popping up everywhere.

It’s hard to think that we can work together to change education when policies like these are out there — and being supported!!!

By PRF

May 20, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

Hey Kathy think about what you have done. You have just screwed the average student once again. Having 8th graders take a CRCT test on material they haven’t been taught because you changed the ciriculum their last year of middle school just isn’t right. Doing this doesn’t impact the top students because they just score a little lower and still pass. The bottom students who always fail just continue to do the same. But, the average student who always works hard to do their best gets screwed again. Kathy, you announced that you expected tests scores to go down. By saying this, you have admitted that you knew you were going to screw the average student. It’s not to late to fix what you have done to them. Adjust the pass/fail score for this years 8th graders. It is the right thing to do!

By em

May 20, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

What is scary is that these tests are norm referenced; therefore, the raw scores must be extremely dismal. That is the mystery that still befuddles. How does the State Department of Education score these standardized tests? Just a few weeks ago, I administered an EOCT that had 80 questions. The State DOE threw out 12 which left 68 questions to be scored. I had a student miss two questions on the entire EOCT. This student got 97.1% of the questions correct; however, the scaled score for this student was a 95. Another student only got 60% of the questions correct; however, the scaled score was 78. As I have said before, these tests are a complete waste of time because they are not measuring anything. If the State must test students, then let’s make them meaningful. In addition, use either the GHSGT or the EOCT for measuring performance because a large amount of money and resources are wasted administering both.

By Frustrated by Stupidity

May 20, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

The goal of public schools should be to help students learn. In Georgia, public schools don’t share this goal. A great example of this, a student who just failed the CRCT test asked to see their test so they could begin studying the areas they got wrong. They were denied. If the goal is to help students learn, why in world would you not allow a student to know what they got wrong and what they still need to learn?

That would be like your employer not telling you what you are expected to do and then firing you for not doing it! As voters, we need to fire Kathy Cox and all county school superintendents that accept this stupidity.

By Competitive

May 20, 2008 11:31 PM | Link to this

I’m not wanting to defend these low scores, but their are several inaccuracies that need to be cleared up.

First, the CRCT is not norm-referenced. The name of the test is “Criterion-Referenced Competency Test” for heaven’s sake. There are a certain number of scored test questions (usually 60), and students have to get a certain number right to pass.

Second, on the subject of cut scores, a major reason for the poor results is the change in cut scores implemented by the state, not the changes in the curriculum or the test. In SS, there were 70 total questions. Of those, 60 were scored with 10 being the controversial “field test” questions. To pass, a student had to get 32 correct this year (53%). Last year, the cut score to pass was only 22 out of 60 (37%). Two years ago, the passing score was an even lower 20 out of 60 (33%). To score a Level 3, this year a student had to get 48 of 60 correct (80%). In years past, it was 43 (72%) and 42 (70%). Obviously, this is a significant increase in the standard and a logical explanation for some of the poor results. I bet the Math test had a similar change in cut scores, though I don’t know the requirements for previous years. This year’s Math students had to get 32 out of 60 to pass. On the other hand, this year’s Reading students needed only 19 out of 40 to pass.

I teach 8th grade SS and saw my test scores drop from previous years. I am upset about that, although my passing rate was approximately 90%. I expect all my students to pass, as they should. But when I looked at the number of questions each student got correct, my raw scores were basically the same as last year. The difference was the cut score.

By the way, I prefer the higher cut score. I will have to improve and work harder, as will my students. Fine! I look forward to the challenge. Those who don’t should seek alternative employment.

By Competitive

May 20, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this

A few other thoughts…

By Enlightened

May 21, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this

Competitive makes a lot of sense and sounds like someone who went into teaching because of a love for the job. What a novel concept!! Can we have Competitive cloned??!! Maybe the scores, even with the new cut scores, would have been better. I am very pleased that Gwinnett students are getting the benefit of Competitive! Competitive, please help other students by mentoring your colleagues and sharing your views.

By ITP

May 21, 2008 8:02 AM | Link to this

HS Teacher Too wrote: “Teachers point out that they are paid for 10 months’ work, but the pay is divided proportionately over 12 months’ time. … the local school systems, apparently believing that most teachers are idiots and can not budget accordingly for their summers, distribute their pay over 12 months.”

The distribution of teacher pay over 12 months is actually a financial windfall for districts who have already received the salary money from the state and can earn interest on investments. And I’m not aware of any district in GA that gives the option of 10 paychecks instead of 12. A smart person would take that option and make the investment profits for themselves. If anyone knows districts that have ths option please share.

By jim d

May 21, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this

65 minutes/ 3,900 seconds

By Teacher, Too

May 21, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

The CRCT is not norm-referenced. It’s a criterion referenced competency test (hence the name CRCT), rather than a norm-referenced test, such as the ITBS. It does not compare and rank student scores against other students’ scores.

By Tater

May 21, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

jim d, missed you the rest of the afternoon yesterday. My guess is that you had to work and pay property taxes to a failed county (city?) school system.

HS Teacher - Unfortunately the people who need to comprehend the failure of the state DOE and the majority of school districts aren’t on this blog. They don’t want to believe that “their” system is a failure, its always “another district” that has problems.

Politically, we are also screwed. The same people who have their heads in the sand are the same ones who will vote for people who take from the producers and give to the non-producers.

All I can do is take care of my kids and continue voting every incumbent out of office. Remember, these people also believe that “their representative, senator, etc., is doing a wonderful job.

Kathy Cox is horrible. The Governor is an embarrassment to this state, the speaker of the house is a crybaby and our US Senators (Chambliss and Isakson) have done nothing in the way of providing leadership to the people they are supposed to serve.

We don’t have any politicians with the intestinal fortitude to say that our educational system in Georgia is unacceptable and these are the steps that need to be taken to avoid this continuing crisis.

Leadership + State & Federal Government + Local Politicians = ZERO

As I said before, it is what it is..

By Teacher, Too

May 21, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

The CRCT is not norm-referenced. It’s a criterion referenced competency test (hence the name CRCT), rather than a norm-referenced test, such as the ITBS. It does not compare and rank student scores against other students’ scores.

This is why the CRCT is not used to evaluate gifted placement. It is designed to evaluate what students know, not where they rank compared to other students of the same age.

By Teacher, Too

May 21, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

I apologize if this posts multiple times.

The CRCT is not norm-referenced. It’s a criterion referenced competency test (hence the name CRCT), rather than a norm-referenced test, such as the ITBS. It does not compare and rank student scores against other students’ scores.

This is why the CRCT is not used to evaluate gifted placement. It is designed to evaluate what students know, not where they rank compared to other students of the same age.

By PTCMomma

May 22, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

I remember talking to Kathy Cox when she first ran for the State House of Reps. Her ideas for education were so refreshing, coming from a teacher’s perspective. I find it sad that she seems to have forgotten where she came from, and is now just a politician.

By Jeff Grant

May 23, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this

What happened to teaching the way the older generations were taught? The state BOE makes our school kids out to be a bunch of dummies. we used to be taught life lessons, some common sense and learned math, science, social studies, reading etc along the way. I’m in my 40’s and it blows my mind to see the math they are being taught now days, i’ve never needed to know most of what they are teaching in math and don’t think i will need it in my next 40 years and i’m involved in the business world. my child was required to know and how to spell words that i have never heard, certainly never had to use or ever will. This test is taking away from real teaching, soon after Christmas break they start teaching the crct junk, they take the test, then after the testing the rest of the year is playtime and hardly anything is being taught. I see this as a parent of a 5th and 8th grader. The test is causing undue stress on 3,5 and 8th graders and their parents.
I had one fifth grade teacher tell me she had trouble figuring out some of the math word problems on the test. what about the a-b honor roll students that fail the test and have to go to summer school to pass the 3,5 or 8th grade? OK, now consider the D-F student that passes the CRCT, he or she is allowed to go to the next grade. now consider what this test is costing us tax payers. 1. after school tutorial classes being taught prior to the test, teachers being paid, school utilities and special tutorial bus routes means drivers pay and think of the fuel cost alone. 2.summer school: teachers pay, school utilities, bus driver and bus transportation (fuel) 3. for student to change from their low scoring school to a higher scoring school outside their district, they offer special bus transportation. a school bus running 30-40 miles a day will use 65 gallons of fuel in a week, my county will be running a minimum of 20 buses for summer school and the summer school routes are generally much longer.

By Gwinnett County Parent

May 25, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

I don’t agree with the CRCT testing nor with the new “method” of teaching. I have been told by teachers that they can seen paper homes because of the low supply of paper. If anyone should have paper it should be the schools. Then the schools are not prepared nor preparing students. If its a passing schools they are worried about numbers not students. The schools that aren’t considered Title 1 Schools aren’t given the same assistance that the Title one schools are given. These kids are being graded harder then college. I have children in both college and middle school, the grading is similar. Everything is computized that students aren’t really learning, especially when a teacher has to stay on task with the lessons. There isn’t any help for students that are struggling. Then the test gives a different view of what the student is really capable of. Students struggle all year and do great on the standardized test are pass along. No additional help offered or recommended to the parents. I think that when they go back to the drawing boarding they really look at the educators and what they are capable of teaching within the year. And stop making everything so computerized…I had a teacher tell me she couldn’t get me some scores because they were entered into a electronic grade book. This isn’t school were teachers care. This is the result of the passing and failing for schools and students..

By Bfree

May 27, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

Any student deserves to be only evaluated on what he is taught. For this to be possible, the teacher should be the person to either design or evaluate any test before it is given to the students. It is preposterous to think that our children’s lives are affected by tests made up by people in other states who have no idea about what has gone on in our classrooms in Georgia.
Furthermore, it is difficult to evaluate students by looking at test scores from year to year. The student populations change; we are not testing the same people. Even if we were, children mature. If the test itself changes and the curriculum is different, we have very little to compare, since too many factors have changed to make any valid determination.

By Clyde D.

June 7, 2008 4:12 AM | Link to this

I made a perfect score on my math CRCT and i don’t think that i was awarded properly. I’m not trying to be ungrateful or anything but i think that i should get more than just a certificate and a test to be in gifted classes next year in 8th grade. Although my teacher said that the high school’s 9th grade math was doing something different this year but u still think that i should be able to skip 8th grade math. My teacher also told me in the middle of the school year that some kids are able to skip 8th grade math and go to the high school to take 9th grade math. I was really looking forward to going to 9th grade math but I guess it didnt work like that. What I am really trying to say here is that I should’ve been awarded more than a certificate. All I really wanted was for everyone to know that i made a perfect score on my math CRCT and also to go to the high school to take 9th grade math. That is all from Clyde D. from Luella Middle School in Henry County.