By DB

May 9, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this

Am I comfortable with my children talking to their teachers outside of regular school hours? Goodness, YES. My son had an AP teacher who hosted Sunday afternoon study sessions during the spring semester in preparation for the AP exam — there was a group of about 7-10 kids who made it a priority to attend, and the sessions would start at history and range to current events, historical perspectives, etc. The kids got to know the teacher, a superbly interesting, erudite and involved gentleman, and his family outside of class, and got to know each other better. One coach regularly hosted pre-game dinners at his home for the team, as a team-building exercise. My daughter has a weekly Bible study group that meets at a teacher’s house (Christian school, we can do that sort of thing :-) ), and another teacher who regularly hosts planning sessions for a school organization for which she is part of the leadership. Having a close relationship with wonderful teachers who truly care about their students inside and outside of the classroom has been one of the great blessings of the school we chose for our children.

By jim d

May 9, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this

Off topic but needs saying.

Gwinnett County School Budget for 08-09 = $1.9 billion

OUTRAGEOUS!!!! that breaks down to $11,875 per student based on the projected 160,000 students.

Give the public a damn choice—THE TIME IS NOW!!!

If even one of the three current board members get re-elected this fall you can bet your A$$ the price tag will continue to rise as the bottom falls out of property values.

By WFC

May 9, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

I always gave out my phone and e-mail to students. I averaged receiving a half dozen calls and maybe a dozen e-mails per year. No problem.

Back in the late 1980’s, I hosted dinners for my A.P. history students after the test. My wife was always there and usually did most of the cooking. I did a stint as an administrator in the 1990’s before returning to the classroom. Sadly, after this experience, I would never again consider having students in my home. Too many neurotic parents out there.

By Lee

May 9, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

The post by DB is a good example of a healthy interpersonal relationship between student and teacher. But you notice, the common theme is that all these interactions took place in a GROUP setting.

I think where most teachers get into trouble is when they allow themselves to get into a one-on-one relationship with a student. That’s a potential minefield that we’ve blogged about many times before.

By Jeff

May 9, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

I’m actually going to see my former mentor - as well as being my former principal at the alternative school - at the church he now preaches at when I come to Cartersville for the Memorial Weekend.

BTW Lee: It is that personal, 1 on 1 relationship that can change and mold like no other. I could tell you of at least three people that I personally know that would not be where they are without some teacher coming into their lives in a 1 on 1 setting. And probably many more, but I know where these three came from and where they are now. Heck, I was just talking to two of them this past week!

OFF TOPIC for jimd: Here’s a link for ya Might shed some light on some of your more idiotic positions…

By Lee

May 9, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

Righhttt Jeff, and here are a few one-on-one relationships that changed some student’s lives as well, but not in a positive way.

By jim d

May 9, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

How much of that stuff have you been smoking?

By Jeff

May 9, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

Lee:

Ah, but the VAST majority of those types of one on one encounters involve a family member or close friend. NOT a teacher.

Get off your high horse already and look at facts.

Wait, that isn’t something you like to do. Never mind.

By jim d

May 9, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

In today’s society, any teacher that would expose themselves to being alone (one on one) with a student is either stupid or niave. Maybe both!

By jr.

May 9, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

hey gunny yawn we are watching u!!!!!!!!! BOOOOOOOOOOO!

By jim d

May 9, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

Lee,

Apparently Jeff couldn’t open the link you posted. Not one incident in that link is with a family member.

I really do think he’s tokin on one right now.

By V for Vendetta

May 9, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

I would go with ignorant, Jim. It is unfortunate, and while both Jeff and Lee have solid points, the world we live in says otherwise.

I will say this, though: Much of the alarmist attitude towards teachers is the fault of the media. Inappropriate relationships are inexcusable, but fifty years ago teachers enjoyed more freedom with their students. Is that to say the inappropriate relationships didn’t take place? Heck no. Everyone didn’t know about them. I just say play it safe … it’s better than sorry. :-)

By HS Teacher Too

May 9, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

I think it’s fair to say that anyone who has taught in the last ten years has had it beaten into their head: never be alone with a student. That being said, there are plenty of times that a teacher can’t help it. For example, you offer a study session for a test, and only one student shows. Or you’re in your room before or after school and a student rushes in with a crisis. As teachers, we are taught to do any of a number of things (and as many as possible) to keep ourselves covered.
Sit near the door. Keep the door open. Position yourself and the student so that both of you are visible to anyone walking by. Tell another teacher you’ve got a student in the room and ask THEM to pop by. Heck, ask them to quietly grade papers in your room. Walk with the student, so you may still talk but you’re not “alone.” The list goes on and on.

Jeff, you are right that one-on-one relationships that can truly make a difference in a child’s life, but you have to realize that many of these precautions likely went on — at least at the beginning — without your ever being aware of them.

Besides, I have to say that in my teaching experience, almost universally my students understood why the precautions were in place. It never prevented me from being able to be a good listener or mentor for a student in need, and they never looked at an open door and said “forget it, you don’t trust me.”

Laura, I think the post by DB says it all as far as what an ideal situation looks like.

Something important to consider is that those “ideal” sitautions don’t tend to happen with young teachers. That’s not to say that there aren’t seasoned teachers who do the wrong thing, but my gut instinct is that it takes a seasoned teacher to get past the immediate suspicion. Young teachers, in my mind, have to watch themselves a little more. Not necessarily because they will be guilty or tempted, but because often times the students will view a young teacher as susceptible, and that can cause all sorts of trouble. (And of course, there is certainly no shortgage of young teachers who don’t understand that they are meant to be teachers, not “bffs” — or more — with their students!)

By raphael

May 9, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

its a imaginary world y es it is….i can see jim d, mom3boy , catlady, wfc, db, jeff and nerly ALL on SCHOOLED BLOG is same person tlaking to sefl..its a imaginary word. is this guy gunny gunny yawn spinning outta of conrol?

By catlady

May 9, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

After my (ESOL) students are no longer in my class, I give them my number. A few call and check in, especially before school starts each year. I have taken former students, as a group, to the library and to the swimming pool in the summer. Probably should not do that, but with quite a few I taught them for 3 years and now teach their siblings. I know (and sometimes help) their parents with things (translations or advice about who to go to).

By A linguist I'm not

May 9, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

I’m not a linguist, but I too can see that this is one person posting under different names back-to-back. Does he/she have a life? When does he/she have time to do anyting else? Obsessive Compulsive-type situations about blogging? Is there a such thing? Jill P.S. I must say that this person has a good imagination, but I find so much of his/her writings rather pedantic.

By Justice

May 9, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

I went to shcool before all the pedophile middle school female teachers developed a tatse for little teeny weenies and they all started banging the entire boy popultaion. We still have the double standard firmly in place that it’s okay for female middle school teachers to be sex addicts, perverts and pedophiles but for the sake of God don’t let a male be. This will end when we have a real judge hands down a real sentence to one of these perverts and hand her life in prison like men get. No wonder women don’t make the same as men in jobs, in court you get off with a slap on the wrist, men don’t…..we have to balance the system some way.

By jim d

May 9, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

One of the most basic tenets taught in BSA Adult Training is to maintain 2 deep leadership. The Youth protection policy in part states;

Two registered adult leaders or one registered leader and a parent of a participant, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required on all trips and outings.

One-on-one contact between adults and youth members is not permitted. In situations that require personal conferences, such as a Scoutmaster’s conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths.

It might heed teachers to learn these basic Scouting Policies.

By jim d

May 9, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

How sweet! Our Troll is back.

By posterchild

May 9, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

I try to listen to any students that come to me with a problem, and if it’s something that goes beyond friend/break-up issues, I refer them to the counselor. I’ve taught a few kids that do have my phone number, but I was their mentor, and they come from very unstable homes. My experience has been that the summer after the year I teach them, they call a few times, then I never hear from them again.

By Teacher, Too

May 9, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

I used to give my students my e-mail address when they moved on to high school. Now, because I am able to access my school e-mail from home, I don’t feel it is necessary to give my personal e-mail address any more.

I think that there are boundaries that need to be maintained between student and teacher. I am not here to be a 6th, 7th, or 8th grader’s friend- I am an adult. But, I do think that I am a trusted, caring individual that my students can rely on when faced with difficult situations.

By RealTeacher

May 9, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

I am a divorced female middle school teacher at a “problem” school. I have been teaching for over 10 years and have gotten close to lots of my students. when students don’t have parents or adults that they can go to for whatever reason, sometimes teachers are all they have. I have students who come to me asking me to take them for a haircut, or help them get clothes to wear, or even food to eat. Should I say no because I am scared? YES, but I don’t. I teach because I care. I am sick of a few cases ruining it for all teachers. Most of us take the verbal abuse, the low pay, the lack of disrespect, ect. because we really do care about the children and making a difference in their lives. You never see a newspaper say “Accountant” accused of child molesting or “Waiter” or any other occupation, teachers get a bad rap. The public needs to understand that the vast majority of teachers are amazing people who really care, not pedophiles looking for children. I proudly say that I care about my students and the day I stop caring I will stop teaching!!

By Heh-heh

May 9, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Teachers should be close enough for us to feel their hot breath on the back of our necks………

By jim d

May 9, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

Real Teach,

Agreed, however teachers need to understand that they have been placed in a place of trust and authority over our children. When one of them violates the trust it reflects poorly on all.

Kind of like the pedophile preists, know what i mean?

As for the low pay? I’d recomend not going there. Too many savy people on this blog.

Oh and by the way, yeah, you can google any profession with “accused of child molestation” and pull up thousands of hits, sometimes even hundreds of thousands.

By jim d

May 9, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

Well that certainly proves it. (CRCT results) More money does fix the problem—-now all we need is Yet MORE MONEY and we can have every child on track by 2013.

ROTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By jim d

May 9, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

oops my bad!!

Georgia High School Graduation Tests but it really matters not. One test as a measure is as good as any other.

Still rotflmao, holding my sides, kicking and screaming with tears running down my cheeks.

By lovelyliz

May 9, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

Both in my university years and time actually teaching I was told to never be alone in a closed-door room with a student and during the off hours/off campus time, to deal with the parents only.

The grief at having to deal with false accusations and lies, makes off campus personal relationships with your students makes the who process too risky and definitely not worth the aggravation.

If students need help you can deal with them via am e-mail account used only for such purposes. You can recommend tutors and professional learning centers. Just don’t directly deal with a student during off campus hours.

By mad_russian

May 9, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

The toughest part about teaching is that no matter what you do, you are going to be attached to your students. My students have my phone number and my district email. They will contact me through my email 99% of the time. I think I might get about a dozen calls each year from them (usually because they are sick or some type of emergency). I host study sessions for my AP students on the weekends, but in a public place, such as a coffee shop. I have the students sign in that they attended so I have proof of who was and was not in attendance. It’s unfortunate that there are a few teachers that don’t have the common sense to know where that line exists. That’s why they end up on the front page of the paper with a bewildered look on their face because they know that their days are numbered. Even when after school tutorials take place, I always keep my door open, have a student sign in and out so I have proof of the event. It’s truly unfortunate that we live in a litigious society that prevents actual teaching from occurring. It stinks that we can’t have the end of year celebration for the kids at our home (in a group setting) to congratulate them for their hard work. I leave those things to the parents so it’s in their hands. The simple truth is to practice the method of CYA (you figure it out). Don’t let yourself end up in a precarious situation and you will be fine. The development of a proper working relationship is what can help our students to achieve their goals.

By retired

May 9, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

I taught middle school students for 32 years before retiring. I was always an academically demanding teacher who expected students to behave. During that time I never looked at a young man in my classroom and considered him as a sexual partner. However, I did have a few students who provided constant reminders that I should follow my birth control regiment during my younger years. LOL In the early 1970’s, teachers dealt with the transition to intergrated school in the rural areas, and there was a tremendous amount of support from parents and the community. I never worried about staying late and helping a child or telling a student to stop by my house for extra help or materials. Slowly, this carefree feeling changed. Students could stay late if I had a note from a parent or students to drop by my home with a parent. By the time I retired, my school building was locked by 4 PM and we were encouraged to NOT have students stay late for help. We are living in a “Cover Your Butt” world. Too many teachers have used no common sense and they have hurt all teachers.

I always enjoyed hearing from former students once they had reached high school or college. I was wonderful to hear that they remembered something they had learned in my class and that information had been useful to them later. Near the end of my teaching experience I began to teach the children of the children I had taught earlier. I had a built in reputation established, and it was wonderful to work with the second generation.

Another note. In the 1970’s, I kept aspirin and cough drops in my room for students. I have told girls to ask another girl for a Midol if they needed something for cramps. I have had boxes of books delivered to my room and asked to borrow someone’s pocket knife to open the box. By the time I retired there was absolutely NO WAY I would have done such things. I would have been dismissed for distributing drugs or encouraged students to bring weapons to school.
We should all miss the trust we once had for public education.

By jim d

May 9, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

retired,

agreed we now live in a second generation ME/ME world. Many of todays teachers are only a few years older than the students they teach.

I can understand how the line could become blurred. the point is though that as adults the teachers must be held accountable for improper actions when they occur. Hushing them up would only exasperate the problems. In that regard I think we should be proud that when issues do arise that the public is made aware, since the fear of public humiliation may act as a detterent.

By Ryder

May 9, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

Good points, jim d. It’s difficult for us teachers when someone of our ilk commits an act that makes it hard for parents to trust those who really do care about the students.

As a single male teacher I make it a point to never be alone in a room, car or anywhere else with a female student. While I made sure the students had my cell number just in case, it got to the point when the students were calling me all times of the night that I had to set boundaries in place to prevent any other problems.

By Phil

May 9, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

While I never stayed after school with my teachers or anything like that. There is potential for some realy help. And im not jsut talking about x+y=z im talking about real help. For example, I run a youth group and I got graudally close with the kids in my youth group. And eventually after about 3 months. She opened up to me, and told me she was a cutter, and we were able to find help for her. Now had I never gotten as close to the kids as I had gotten. I mean trust wise she never would have taught me that. Now imagine if every teacher or lets say 5 teachers in/high school were actually able to both teach reading, writing, and arithmitic but also help them emotionally, socially, ect… The potential from turning a school shooting in a 3.0 greatly increases. And all you have to do is give a damn about what your students are doing. Trust+talk=answers

By momtoAlex&Max

May 9, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

This is not exactly the same thing, but my husband is the den leader for our oldest’s cub scout den. He had to take some training for it, and one section dealt with those issues. They had things in there about NEVER giving a ride to another scout(w/o the parent), NEVER sharing a tent with a scout that is not your son, etc, etc. It was so sad that those rules had to put in place, and it made him worry about taking on that role. What a world we live in.

By thomas

May 9, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

This is so funny. How can a teacher get “close” to his or her students? Well first of all, I teach elementary school. I used to teach middle school. You can have rapport with your students, but a “relationship?”

My students like me. But after 2:30, I don’t know you. For me I want my students to like me just enough to do what I say and want without me having to scream.

Somebody said they give their students their phone numbers. I don’t even give my co-workers my phone number!!!!

Come on guys, get real.

By JustMe

May 9, 2008 8:17 PM | Link to this

How do you define “getting close?”

As a high school teacher, in class before the lesson, I will often ask students about their extracurricular activities - how did the game go last night? how many points did you score? and so on. Is that “getting close?” I was taught that it was showing an interest in the individual student rather than treating them like cattle.

As far as before or after school stuff, I offer tutoring. However, my classroom door is always open and I am also very aware of my physical proximity to the student(s). I try to stay behind my desk or sit in the next row of desks while tutoring. I have seen too many instances where a student accuses a teacher of wrong doing and I want no part of even an accusation.

As a rule, I never touch a student at all. I know some teachers that regularly hug students or pat them on the back. I have also seen one of those students get mad at the teacher and run to the Principal accusing that teacher of wrong doing. Again, I want no part of that.

One trend that I like is the fist bump. Students will do this with me and I like it because there is no way to interpret that as anything more than what it is.

Some students may view me as distant. I like to think of it as professional and as a way to survive a crazy occupation in the State of GA (until I move anyway).

By catlady

May 9, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this

One thing that non-teachers on this blog may never understand and appreciate: so many of the students are literally STARVING for appropriate adult attention. You simply cannot understand the level of pain, anger, and dispair I see each day. It makes them vulnerable to folks with inappropriate ideas. Parents on this blog, hug your kid tonight!

By KJ

May 9, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

I went to shcool before all the pedophile middle school female teachers developed a tatse for little teeny weenies and they all started banging the entire boy popultaion.

Me too, unfortunately :(

By JustMe

May 10, 2008 4:44 AM | Link to this

jim d - The opposite is also true. Today is seems as though the media sensationalizes every incident when a teacher does something wrong. Heck, we here in Atlanta hear of a teacher across the Country that may have had sex with a student.

That sensationalism somehow makes ALL teachers look bad. In reality, there are bad apples in every profession.

Teachers that do something wrong SHOULD be held accountable. But, that should not make ALL teachers look bad - even though it does seem to.

Imagine if the media did that to all professions.

By WFC

May 10, 2008 8:33 AM | Link to this

My son, currently a high school junior, would be a wonderful teacher. I will move heaven and earth to make sure that it never happens.

School systems today (including most private schools) can crucify any teacher they want. No unions in Georgia! I have many parents of former students as friends but it only takes a couple of neurotic parents to make life miserable.

So many students DO crave attention from responsible adults. It’s sad. I’m lucky. My son is exhibit #1 that I know what I’m doing as a parent and teacher.

By jim d

May 10, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

I teach middle school. I teach elementary school. I teach high school. My imaginary son (oops, I can’t remember…does jim d have one son or is he like moms3boys and have three sons?). I am having so much fun with you all. So much fun that I blog at 4:44 AM. I am obssessed with this mess. Quick. Detoxify me! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I am so smart and have so much insight. I know so much more than you guys. Let’s see…Woodward Academy…Jackson County High School…Southwest DeKalb High School…Redan High School…Columbia High School…Martin Luther King High School…Did I teach at Shamrock High School? (I can’t remember now.) Did I teach at Avondale High School. (I can’t remember now.) I have insights, insights. Please pay attention to me. I don’t won’t to be discovered years later…like Soren Kierkegaard. (Boy, now he was a chipper guy.) Please discover me now. jim d, you have indeed been discovered. When you get vicious on this and other boards, you will be called out so that others too can discover you. Vidalia Vicious? Now that sounds like a good moniker that you can use. Fake Inspector can track down Vidalia Vicious when he gets vicious and verbally eviscerates people on the many blogs. This will be entertaining. Stay tuned, readers. jim d and his many monikers are now fixtures in the public mind. “They” avail themselves many times per day, even at the oddest hours…4:44 AM. We depend on jim d and moms3boys and their many, many siblings on these blogs. We are needy. We need to read their postings.

By Lee

May 10, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

Yes, I am sure that many students crave attention from adults. The pedophiles are also aware of this and know how to manipulate that to their advantage.

Does the media sensationalize? Yes, that is what sells newspapers. Unfortunately, there are too many stories of teacher abuse to ignore.

Personally, I don’t think we have scratched the surface on this issue. For every case that is publicized, there are probably many more that never get reported - either due to the victim being too scared or embarassed to come forward or the administration sweeping it under the rug.

One more thing, I would argue that in almost every case of teacher abuse, there was another teacher, student, administrator, or parent who saw the signs of abuse (or even knew about the abuse), but were reluctant to notify the proper authorities.

For those of you who want a teacher’s union, I say that video surveillance would be a far more effective protection for the teacher than some union.

By JustMe

May 10, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

Lee - A joining a real teacher union won’t just protect teachers from unfair accusations from students. It would also protect teachers from crazy administrators, unfair practices forced on us, crazy parents, and ultimatly help education in GA by advocating for real education reform for student benefit (this is something administrators don’t do). The real unions do not protect teachers that do wrong, they protect innocent ones that have been wrongly accused.

Yeah, my school claims to have video surveillance. It works only about 10% of the time and there are not cameras in near enough locations. Big deal.

By JustMe

May 10, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

jd - Having a rough day?

By Lee

May 10, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

Justme, the goal of any union is to protect the dues paying member so that they can bring in even more dues paying members. Students, who do not pay union dues, are far down the list of priorities.

Hell, we have enough p**-poor teachers now ruining public education, which, by the way, administration WONT do anything about. I would hate to see it when the administrators CANT do anything about them.

By itsmebc

May 10, 2008 9:57 PM | Link to this

I am a seventh grade teacher and I am close to many of my students. I am a male and so students do not have role models. I have students in high school that come back to talk to me about problems, etc and anytime there are problems that may endanger the student I inform my administration. I had a child to “come out” to me; one admitted being sexually abused; and one had a gun at school one day. I have learned to keep a level head and talk to the students as if they are adults. Anytime I take female students on an overnight field trip (I sponsor several extracurricular activities) I take my wife along to help and assist. On my website for my school, my home email address and cell phone are listed. I have had very few students to use either; however, I hear from parents at least 2 or 3 times a week, usually to clarify assignments. I think there is nothing wrong with knowing my students; it is the people who teach and take advantage of these students that make things difficult for the rest of us.

By WFC

May 10, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Hey Jim d: what exactly ARE your qualifications for opining on schools? BS degree? Just wondering.

By JustMe

May 10, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

Lee - I can only speak to what I know for a fact. The teachers union in Iowa (AFT) regularly fights to improve education for students.

I believe that your ideas of unions are of the “Norman Rae” variety and are not professional unions like AFT.

Believe it or not, the vast majority of teachers are in it for the love of teaching and certainly not for the money or the benefits! Most teachers really want to teach students and to do a good job.

The problems come when administrators want teachers to do things outside of our job (teaching) such as bus duty, hall duty, cleaning bathrooms, stupid meetings, or whatever. Just wondering - does YOUR boss want you to clean the bathrooms? Not only is this demeaning (although teachers do it) but more importantly it takes time away from us when we need to be planning for the lessons to teach children.

In addition, administrators require teachers to adhere to goofy ‘programs’ that they purchase - wasting millions of dollars. These programs may force teachers to display student work a specific way, to write the GPS on the board each day (as if the students understand what GPS means or even needs to), or to do a thousand other stupid things that really don’t help the students learn at all. But, it certainly does take time from the teachers to do them all.

When things like this happen (and they happen a lot), it chips away at our (teachers) time and moral. With teachers time taken doing all of these crazy things, it is no wonder that lessons may be lacking?

A union would help the students by reigning in these ridiculous things administrators are now requiring of teachers - and let teachers focus on the students!

By Molly Bloom

May 10, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

We faced a similar question out here in Austin, TX last week in the case of a teacher accused of getting (emotionally) close to a student and then (allegedly) having sex with him. Here’s the story No strong consensus from readers here except that teachers shouldn’t have sex with students. (Duh.)

By Cactus

May 10, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this

CatLady: You are right on. Give your kids a hug and let them know they are loved. I have a daughters that are 41 and 43 and I always thell them I love them, their never to old.

By Ray

May 11, 2008 6:12 AM | Link to this

It is on a case by case basis. It is an extremely difficult question to answer. I will error on the side of caution. I would not let my daughters go anywhere with a teacher outside of normal school activities!

By Lee

May 11, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

Justme, you’re going to have to make a decision; do you want to be considered a “professional” or do you want to be a rank and file “union member.” EVERY union’s first consideration is for the promotion and welfare of the Union itself.

Here are some arguements against teachers unions.

Teachers unions fight against any meaningful education reform and fight for keeping bad teachers employed.

Yep, that sure sounds like they have the student’s best interests at heart.

By Lee

May 11, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

WFC, just curious, what does having (or not having) a college degree have to do with being able to opine about education issues on a public blog?

By JustMe

May 11, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

Lee Again, you confuse the “Norma Rae” type union with professional unions. There are professional unions in many professions. We are not talking about UAW type unions that have historically looked to keep increasing the number of jobs in spite of a slow down. We are talking about professional unions that are looking to improve the profession, in this case education. If I am not mistaken, there are professional unions for doctors, electrical workers, and other professions as well. Are you saying that all of them are “bad?”

Sure, for every good professional union out there you can cite a “Norma Rae” or “bad” union. Big deal. We are talking apples and oranges.

By JustMe

May 11, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

BTW Lee GA doesn’t have a teacher union. Do you think that bad teachers are retained in GA? I’d really like to know your thoughts.

According to your logic, since GA doesn’t have a real teacher union, there are no bad teachers, right? This must be because bad teachers are immediately fired, right?

Please, oh please, share your thoughts.

It is silly to argue when you don’t understand the core of any problem!

By Lee

May 11, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

Justme, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence out there to suggest that teachers unions are no different from any of the other unions.

While you’re at it, Google “Teacher Rubber Rooms”, i.e., those places they send teachers that they want to fire, but cannot because of burdensome union rules. I especially like the story of the teacher who has spent 12 of his 20 teaching years sitting in a room awaiting a decisions for his many teaching infractions.

Yep, sounds like a good system to me {{{sarcasm}}}

By jim d

May 11, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this

JustMe: Lee secretly confided (redundent?) in me that he wants to marry you because you two have so much in common. Both of you are pedophiles - well, at least alleged pedophiles but the terrible teacher unions have managed to get both of you stationed in each school system’s penalty boxes (“rubber rooms”) for over a decade. Lee has been reporting to the Norma Rae Room, and you have been reporting to the Hillary Rodham Clinton Rehabilitation Center in the Atlanta Public Schools. (It formerly was located in the Instructional Services Center, but it now is proudly located in the Taj Mahal on Trinity Avenue.) JustMe: Will you marry Lee? Yes; No. The Pedophile Union for Teachers (PUT) was founded last week. Guess who founded this new union and where it was founded? (Harry Leroy Truman, III in Opp, Alabama. I couldn’t hold back this secret.) This is very interesting.

JustMe: This could be the beginning of a great alliance. Pedophile Teachers for America (PTA). Not. This, my friends, is a sick satire.

I see that Fake Inspector is still working.

By Molly Brown

May 11, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

No, jim d, you are wrong about who founded (in secret, by the way) PUT. It was not Harry Leroy Bertrand Truman, III; I hear it was Missoura Lop Lottus. She is originally from Kirkwood but secretly hides out in the Southside. She teaches in the metro area. I think that she teaches French and/or English. I think that she graduated from the University of Alabama after attending Southern Union (jr. college, I think) for two years.

PUT is the most pernicious of all the terrible teacher unions. I think that PUT is secretly meeting with Roy Barnes, trying to talk him into a comeback in the gubernatorial (sp?) race of 2010. Roy Barnes for GovAgain! Good slogan. His Lt. Gov. running mate? JC. That’s right. Jimmy Carter. Remember that Jimmy gave us the U. S. Dept. of Education. This has been a real panacea for public education. Urban school systems now graduate nearly 28% of its students (even though Detroit only graduates 24.9% of its students, with cheating on the standardized tests being standard, I presume).

jim d, you do not know what you think that you know. I am going to call Mom3Boys immediately. She can google so well.

By JustMe

May 12, 2008 12:07 AM | Link to this

Mom3Boys and I were sitting here drinking some Chardonay and working on lesson plans. We were mortified at what you, jim d, wrote about Lee and me. What is wrong with you? You know I would not marry Lee - no, not in a million Harry Wong years. Mom3Boys and I are lesbians. You know that.

Yes, both of us joined PUT as soon as it approached us in the teachers’ lounge. We were so excited and shared its information with our fellow Roy Barnes for GovAgain meeting at Billy & Bobby’s (Bennett) Pizzaria in downtown Decatur. (They are opening another pizza joint in Little Five Points next month to serve the uncultured Southside teachers who always complain that it’s not all-you-can-eat like CiCi’s.) If we can get PUT growing at exponential speed, we can help Hillary win West Virginia and Kentucky and wrest the nomination out of Barack’s hands. Jimmy Carter will come over from the Presidential Library and participate in our book-reading part of the meeting. His last of 378 books? Why I Like All Shieks and Hate American. He says that his passion is to make our gas prices well over 19.36 dollars per gallon so that teachers will be forced to car-pool, hold hands, and sing “American the Ugly” as they traverse to their respective schools. He says: “Hey, do you blame me? Rosalyn and I get to vacation free-of-charge any weekend in Dubai. All politics is money.”

By jim d

May 12, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this

Hey, Catlady (and cousin Cactus), still in your litter box? It’s time to get out. Enjoy God’s sunshine. Independence brings about freedom (and jealousy from others). Yes, I am smoking a madeiro Churchill and imbibing on some Jim Beam. (Jim Beam almost killed Hank, Jr., in 1973.) Life is great! I love my family! I don’t kick wayward kids out of the family. Remember the story of the Prodigal Son? We’re all b_stards but God loves us anyway.

Teachers are treated like dog p-op today. Why? Public education is now a lucrative industry. I’ll will talk about this later. The AJC is getting too many free thoughts from me today. I need to get a spot in the regular pages. Ads add up. More money for the Cox Empire. Hey, Tuck, what kind of team will Auburn have this year? Hey, Jim, are they treating you O. K.? Convervatives take it on the chin these days. Tell’em that it’s Willingham Thing, and they wouldn’t understand. From Marion, Alabama to South Macon, Georgia. It’s a great life! AJC all the way!

I have the best mother in all the world, and I thank my God each day for her. Always tell your parents and your children and your friends how much that you love them. The big unction? Tell your enemies that you love them also, and pray for them each day.

By WFC

May 12, 2008 7:18 AM | Link to this

LEE: The “BS” degree comment was a joke (“bull s*). It’s not the degree that counts, it’s the fact that Jim d was mocking my 31 years of experience in public and private schools and the fact that I have a son who is a junior in high school today. This is America and anyone is entitled to offer his opinion. But, one of the first things I learned in studying for my degree in history was to “consider the source.” My direct experience DOES count though it doesn’t necessarily make my opinions correct. On the other hand, going to high school back in the day and reading blogs doesn’t carry a lot of weight. Just saying. “Walk the walk.”

By jim d

May 12, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this

wfc,

You do, of course, realize we have a resident Troll blogging as several of the regulars. Right?

By JustMe

May 12, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

First of all, the last post under my name was NOT me. Evidently there is some joker posting under various handles with the objective to screw up this board. Sad.

Second, Lee, another reason GA needs a teacher union? DeKalb County is rejecting the step pay increase promised to teachers. But, DeKalb County is approving a $25 million dollar increase for Central Office employees. Make sense to you? Sure doesn’t to me. Money should go first and foremost to the classroom for the students, not to the office pencil pushers. A real union would stop this type of abuse.

By Just Me again...

May 12, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

I apologize for the troll who has been taking over my different personalities. I am just trying to provide the readers with insights about what is happening in our schools. The dialogue form of communication is perfectly acceptable and an effective way of communicating. The medium, in this case, is not the message. Be well.

By JustMe

May 12, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

LOL - I have never used the word “troll” in my life!