Get Schooled

By Gwinnett Educator

May 6, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this

Although I teach 1st grade, I am quite sure more children are cheating that what some may want to admit or even realize.

My 1st graders cheat. I caught one student yesterday on the floor beside her desk copying someone else’s homework.

It seems to me that in today’s society, a very large number of people think “the end justifies the mean”. Some even try to say “everyone is doing it” so its ok. With this thought process, its no wonder that students think that cheating is acceptable.

By Dave

May 6, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this

That is the way society is heading. Cheating on taxes, cheating in school, cheating on anything you can. According to these cheaters, it’s only wrong if you get caught. Even in sports, “If you aren’t cheating, you aren’t trying.” People (teenagers, in particular), are wired to think they can do just enough to get by. People that go the extra mile, try and go above the average, those that prosper and succeed are rediculed for being nerdy, kiss ups and “anal” for putting pressure on themselves to do better. Superior efforts and success in school, work and life are just targets for the lazy, the “unfortunate”, and the laid back. In other words, the Liberal/Democrats way of thinking is starting to affect all around us….and it ain’t pretty. People that succeed through hard work, making the most of what they have and CREATING their own opportunities are rediculed. Usually, the critics are waiting for hand outs, criticizing those that succeed as being “lucky” or “fortunate” and make excuses for their own, self inflicted plight. Succeeders are usually Republicans and their critics are usually Democrats (or subscribe to the liberal way of thinking).

By V for Vendetta

May 6, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

looks around for JimD

BECAUSE THEIR PARENTS SUCK!

Actually, that’s only partially true. I had good parents and I was taught the value of hard work and truthfulness, but I was known to sneak a peak here and there in some of my classes, just to boost that grade from a high B to a low A. Does that make it right? Of course not, but I see that as a misguided attempt to gain a competitive advantage and I would tell any kid I caught doing that the same thing.

However, that being said, cheating on major assignments in order to PASS is a whole different issue in my book. To me, it shows that a student doesn’t want to do ANYTHING, that he or she wants everything in life to be free and easy, that you shouldn’t have to work for anything at all. I find that to be a separate issue.

Gaining an advantage over others is human nature, but there has to be some work involved. We’ve all been tempted, no one is immune. Still, while I would punish kids in both scenarios, I would punish the kid who was failing more harshly. Both would receive a grade of zero for the assignment, but the kid who was failing would get written up and taken to the counseling office. I would also phone the parents of BOTH kids. For kids with good parents, that’s the worst punishment in the world!

By WFC

May 6, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

Students cheat a lot and very often they are “good” students. There is a fairly simple reason for it: school administrators tolerate it and this tolerance trickles down to many teachers.

I was Dean of Students at Chattahoochee High School in North Fulton County in the mid-1990’s. I researched the cheating issue and found it to be very common. I initiated an honor code system based on the University of Virginia model. I had almost unanimous faculty support and strong support from many students who didn’t cheat and were tired of seeing cheaters prospering.

Long story short. The key component of the program was the fact that a SECOND cheating offense by a student would entail my writing a letter to be attached to a student’s transcript and sent to any college to which the student applied. There were plenty of safeguards in place to protect against mistakes. This would have worked.

My initiative was squashed by the principal, Robert Burke, who was much more interested in furthering his career than anything else. I pushed the issue and soon was no longer Dean. I went down for a worthwhile cause and don’t regret it. Wish I had suceeded, though. Lots of those “honor graduates” are bogus.

By jim d

May 6, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

V,

Indeed I’m lurking in the shadows.

The issue here is really more one of sociobiology.

Let’s for a minute strip away all the ill-founded and hasty conclusions reached by some sociobiologists, doing so we are left with some very interesting analytical structures and some surprising possibilities for human nature.

It has been easy to see why aggression and competition might be favored by evolution. But now we can understand how altruism and cooperation might also be favored.

Further sociobiological study will probably show that humans are intrinsically social creatures, and help us to understand the complex design of social creatures who at times also act selfishly to maximize their evolutionary success.

So in fact, we are left with the possibility that humans cheating is an evolutionary process,not necessarily “that the parents suck.” But hey this is but a theory and it is altogether possible that parents just really do suck.

By mom3boys

May 6, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

When I get a paper that is so much better than a student is capable of, I run it through plagiarismchecker.com or type in a sentence or two in google. I then print the paper from the internet and staple it to the forgery and give a 0. Since I can’t really give a 0 (!@@$#*$%&%), I write a referral and while in ISS the little darling can re-do the paper. When I know it’s plagiarized (from a book), but cannot prove it, I find another way to make sure the grade reflects the lack of effort. Most high school teachers my older two have had have made them print copies of any articles used as sources for research papers. My graduate program required I submit my papers to an online checker prior to submitting to the prof. Just as technology allows for cheating, technology will find a way to identify cheaters as well.

By Rick

May 6, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

Bottom line, cheaters WILL prosper if they don’t encounter any resistance. With all the MTV psychologists, the liberals screaming about “self esteem” and self image”, the same with “opportunity for all at any cost” and just tolerating mediocrity and rewarding “effort (when it’s actually just a half-a*******ed effort)” is well on it’s way to presenting a generation of cheaters and “everyone is doing it”. If my parents every found out I had cheated, they would have encouraged the school to discipline me and then the worst punishement would have been when I got home. Bad things, man…..bad things.

By HS Teacher Too

May 6, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

I have to say that I always saw more cheating among the top kids than among the bottom. For the top kids, it really did make the difference frm the B+ to A-, or in my sytem, pushing that 89 to a 90, and thus a “B” to an “A.” It was fiercely competitive, and while I won’t say cheating wass rampant, it was altogether too common.

My solution was to have an honesty policy. First, I almost never collected homework because to me, that encouraged cheating. I think homework is designed to ensure that students practice and “understand,” and if they achieve that understanding by the third problem, or if they do all 20 and still don’t get it, I need to know both of those pieces of information the next day. I thought that was a more than fair policy, especially considering that I would, occasionally, collect and grade homework — only ever on the second day of covering a topic, and only ever spot-checked for accuracy. Parents HATED it! They wanted me to give effort grades for completion! In effect, they would rather that I check to see “some work” scribbled near 20 problems, than for a student to honestly admit they were stuck.

Second, I allowed students — encouraged them — to come to me the day before, the day of, a test or quiz and tell me if they just fely horribly unprepared. As long as they hadn’t slept through the unit, we’d work out a solution to get them feeling better enough about the material to be able to sit for the exam. I had a few studens take me up on this. The way I looked at it, though the “real world” might not work that way, this was still high school. I would rather a kid say “Mrs. HSTeacherToo, I just don’t get it, and if you make me take this test I will fail,” than to sit there with a crib sheet under their desk.

But that isn’t to say it didn’t happen. I just worked my hardest to prevent it by offering kids an option.

WFC, your story makes me terribly sad. Was the principal worried about liabilty? I have been at schools where they effectively said there was nothing they could do about cheating, because any punishment could be legally (and successfully) challenged, so they did little more than slap on the wrists to students. Even the consequence of getting a 0 on the work was not considered viable.

Sigh. Our society is so soft. I worry for my children, and I downright fear for their children.

By MANofSTEEL

May 6, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

I recommend public canings for people found cheating. No excuses, no reasoning. The trial should go like this: Principle:”Were you cheating on that test?” Student:”Ummm….well, it’s not exactly the way it looks….” Principle:”Ms. Jones, did you catch the student copying from a small sheet up paper?” Ms. Jones:”Red handed” Principle:”OK Little Johnny, bend over and drop ‘em!” Student:”Waaaaaaahhh…it’s not fair!” Principle:”You should have thought about that before you cheated.” WHAK! WHAK! WHAK!

By HS Teacher Too

May 6, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

Sorry for the multiple typos today. Not used to my new keyboard!!

By WFC

May 6, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

HS TEACHER TOO— the principal was worried about Chattahoochee H.S., and by extension himself, not “looking good.” Guess it worked for him. He now has a highly paid “do nothing” job at the central office. It is sad.

By jim d

May 6, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

AW c’mon guy’s.

Everyone cheats. Anytime you break the rules to get ahead, you’re cheating. Kids see this everyday and we expect them not to? WOW.

Has anyone here driven over the speed limit? Read something on someone elses desk? Rolled through a stop sign? Ever gotten back too much change and pocketed it? Gone on a diet and failed to live by it? Had a drink and gotten behind the wheel? Kissed a neighbor?

Personally I think it’s a bit like the kettle calling the pot black, since we all live such fine examples.

By Jason

May 6, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

“In other words, the Liberal/Democrats way of thinking is starting to affect all around us….and it ain’t pretty.”

I was waiting for someone to blame Bill Clinton, but I guess this will have to do.

“Succeeders are usually Republicans and their critics are usually Democrats (or subscribe to the liberal way of thinking).”

Yes, because it’s those intellectual-powerhouse red states like Mississippi, Arizona and Kansas that keep this country afloat.

By jim d

May 6, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Yo V,

Not sure why this question never occured to me when i see sweeping comments by teachers that “parents suck”. Would that be all other parents since most of the teachers I know are also parents?

By Jeff

May 6, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

Is it any surprise that I agree with ManofSteel??

Ladies and gentlemen, I’ll put my feelings about cheaters like this:

I would allow a known child molester to rape my daughter any way he wanted before I would even THINK to BEGIN to tolerate ANY form of cheating.

As low as child molesters are, to my mind they are the SECOND lowest form of scum on the face of this planet.

The ONE group lower than child molesters? Cheaters.

That goes from the classroom to the ballfield to the pulpit to the White House and anywhere in between. I would sooner put a bullet in your head than allow you to cheat on my watch.

By Jesse's Girl

May 6, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

Jeff..you are a supreme idiot. You prove it daily with your ridiculous rants. Get some help man. What a dumb a$$

By TeacherMom

May 6, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

I just graded 110 research papers. More than 3/4 of them had some degree of plagiarism, and a handful of papers were blatantly plagiarized (one even had the URL at the bottom of the page!). The students in question are designated honors/gifted and know better, but they are (pick one) too busy, too overwhelmed, too lazy, too competitive, too unethical to put in the time and effort to produce an original product.

Of greater concern to me is the overall antipathy toward—and total disregard/disdain for—integrity. Today, I gave my students a statement to debate: “It’s okay to do something wrong if no one knows about it.” In a class of 21, only two students disagreed with the statement. Instead, the students argued for moral relativity, for situational ethics.

I fear for our future.

By Sammi

May 6, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

I attended a Dekalb inservice at my school in which we were informed by the instructors that we were to regard cheating among our Hispanic students as a “cultural” difference, i.e. these students feel is it their duty to help other Hispanic students by allowing them to copy homework, peek on tests, whispering answers, etc.
We were informed that there was to be no consequence for cheating because we must respect their “cultural values” and be non-discriminatory. *Our schools [and OUR culture] are on the way to H-{{ in that everpresent and patiently waiting HANDBASKET!!!!

By jim d

May 6, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

“I would allow a known child molester to rape my daughter any way he wanted before I would even THINK to BEGIN to tolerate ANY form of cheating.”

This froma man with no children is hilarious. You Go Jeff

missed ya yesterday!

By Beck

May 6, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

jim d, thank you for making my case. Attitudes like yours are taking over. I guess if you have ever done something in your past, you don’t have any legs for correcting it as an adult. Talk about Democratic idealogy! We make mistakes as children, LEARN from them and then use those lessons to pass on to our children so they don’t have to experience the same consequences. I hope, for the love of god, jim d isn’t a parent. He could tell his children not to cheat, he did it. He couldn’t tell his children not to drink and drive, he did it. He could tell his children not to shop lift, he did it. Am I making my point? YES, cheating is wrong, whether I do it, you do it or a child does it. Does it go on? Absolutely. But we should just turn a blind eye, right? After all, everyone does it. Jim D, I guess I can’t tell my children to call a spade a spade, because you are an imbicle!

By Sammi

May 6, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

TeacherMom The development of the situational ethics and moral relativity you mention appears to be in direct proportion to the development of the politically correct permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from our own. Since this has become a primary emphasis not only in our schools, but in our nation, it is not surprising that our children are soaking it up.

By jim d

May 6, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

Beck,?????

did you listen to your parents?

do you now live a pefect example for your kids?

I didn’t and I don’t—I still do dumb stuff once in awhile. I drive too fast, weave in traffic and sometimes will have a cocktail with dinner and drive home.

Yes, I advise my child against doing all of these things but the point is the example probably has a more lasting effect. Will he follow suit and do dumb things? Odds are that he will and that my friend is just the realities of human nature. to think kids aren’t human and won’t follow our example in not only narrow minded but is pure lunacy.

By Katie

May 6, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

Cheating is for losers, period!!! If you cheat there is something wrong with you and the way in which you were raised. Cheaters never win, in the long run. No excuses!!! There is NO excuse to cheat, ever!!

By jim d

May 6, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

And now ladies and gentlemen, Katie will favor us with an encore presentation by walking upon the waters.

By Reader

May 6, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Jeff, I’m sorry. I hate to call people out by name on blogs, but THAT IS THE SINGLE MOST ASININE COMMENT I HAVE EVER SEEN ON “GET SCHOOLED.” Take a breather and get some perspective. We should all start praying now you are never blessed with a daughter. I hope your beloved “T” doesn’t see that comment.

By jim d

May 6, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

“Cheaters never win, in the long run.”

What fantasyland do you live in Dear? Sure they do. The past 20 years has held many winning cheaters in the Whitehouse.

By V for Vendetta

May 6, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

Jim D,

Yeah I know, most teachers are parents. I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek there. I agree with you on this issue and I loved your sociobiological explanation.

Jeff,

If memory serves me right, cheaters were not THAT low on the totem in Dante’s Inferno. It was circle two or three, I believe. I’d put someone who would rape children just a wee bit lower than that, don’t ya think?

By JustMe

May 6, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

In my experience, it is the “smart” kids that cheat more often than the “dumb” ones. Why? Because the “smart” kids are the ones that care more about their grades. They are usually more competitive and/or have parents that are pressuring them to make good grades (PLEASE understand that they pressure to make good grades which is NOT necessarily the same thing as learning the material).

If parents would instill in their children the values of honesty, pride in their work, that cheating is wrong, stealing is wrong, etc., then students are less likely to cheat in school. Some may do it anyway, but not everyone has a conscience that works well.

By the way, if a student will cheat on a test, they will also lie about it. I have caught students cheating, with cheat sheets that I had as proof, yet the student claimed that they weren’t doing it. I have made photocopies of the student’s tests - the student changes the answers and wants credit - but when I show them the photocopy they claim that there must have been a problem with the copy machine.

This is a problem with morals and values. So the question is - SHOULD schools be teaching morals and values, or is it something that must be taught at home (or Church)? In either case, schools must deal with the results.

By Beth

May 6, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

Hey Jeff, while Katie is walking on the waters, why don’t you give us an oratory on “If it feels good, do it.” Maybe you can follow it up with “It isn’t wrong if you don’t get caught.” followed by your swan song “My Daddy stole, so it must be OK”. It’s all a part of your class “No point in saying anything to me, I’m doing it anyway.”

Maybe it will fit right in with the following class “Rules, morals and integrity are for losers.”

By Beth

May 6, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Justme, a good point. Of course the liberals will say that you can’t teach morals and integrity because it smacks of religion or it might offend a culture that doesn’t endorse morals or values. Either way, we’re screwed.

By Beth

May 6, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

Excuse me, my last post for Jeff was meant for jim d. What a putz that guy is.

By jim d

May 6, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

Beth,

My Dear, You have exceeded even JM’s ability to jump to conclusions. I’ve not once on this blog indicated I thought cheating was OK. I’ve merely been questioning those that don’t understand why it happens, and I’ve set a few examples that everyone of us should question in our own lives.

SLATE featured a piece on this very subject not long ago. I’d suggest you read it with an open mind.

College students cheat more when they’re indoctrinated against free will,according to two experiments. First experiment: Students took a math test on which they thought cheating was undetectable. Some, but not others, were told “that science disproves the notion of free will and that the illusion of free will was a mere artifact of the brain’s biochemistry.” Results: 1) “Exposure to the deterministic message increased cheating.” 2) Students with lower confidence in free will cheated more than those with higher confidence. Second experiment: Students took another test and were allowed to take $1 from an envelope (again, supposedly undetectable) for each correct answer. Results: Those “who read deterministic statements cheated by overpaying themselves,” while those “who read statements endorsing free will did not.” Authors’ warning: As public faith in free will declines, moral behavior may decline with it. (Related: The physical evolution of morality.)

If you’d care to read the findings you can access the article complete with links HERE

By Jeff

May 6, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

To those that say “He’s never had a kid, he doesn’t know”:

You’re right, I’ve never had a kid. But I didn’t have a wife until 7 months ago, and the things I said 2 yrs ago about the lengths I would go to to protect her I am living now and mean every word of - and more - today.

As a teacher/tutor/babysitter at the various levels I’ve worked at - including watching a couple friend of ours’ 1yr old when we’re all out together - I’ve felt a small shadow of what being a parent will actually feel like. I know the experience will be overwhelming - it already is sometimes, just thinking about it.

But I still mean exactly what I said earlier. And given my other stances and violent tendencies, you should know how EXTREMELY thin the ice around a known child molester anywhere NEAR my daughter would be, and that his life would be in mortal danger at the SLIGHTEST sign I thought that he was going to harm her. Which only amplifies my point earlier. THAT is the level I despise cheaters. To the point that I would allow something to happen that normally I would end extremely violently and painfully in a nanosecond.

Now, as to how prevalent is it? I was run out of Newton in large part due to my stance against cheating. And it was the rich, popular kids that were doing it. The stupid, poor kids didn’t care enough to even bother cheating.

As to why kids think cheating is fine: Well, with most parents these days sounding like jimd, do you really have to ask that question?

My parents thought little more of cheaters than I do - they would probably put them on the same level as child molesters.

By jim d

May 6, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Well Jeff,

I’m really not condoning cheating—just attempting to get some of the “holier than thou” to reflect on their attitudes, since I’m positive we all fall short.

And as for putting a bullet in their head? That may be a bit extreme,(even for you) I can understand now why you left the Newton system.

By Teacher, Too

May 6, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

What concerns me the most are the parents who deny their child was caught cheating, even though the evidence is irrefutable. One year, I caught one of my 8th grade students plagiarizing his research paper. I found the article that he plagiarized from (from a medical journal, no less) and printed it out. I then hi-lited everything the student had plagiarized, word-for-word from the article, including the medical conference he had attended the previous year.

I sat with my admin, the parent, and the student. I’m sure it comes as no shock that even with the evidence right before her, the parent denied that her child had cheated. She flat-out told me that if her child said he didn’t cheat, then he didn’t cheat.

Oh, my. Children lie. Children cheat. It’s not right, but it does happen— and more frequently than many parents wish to acknowledge.

I run a coupld of sentences of my students’ writing through google if it looks suspicious— suddenly too many “new” words that the student has never used before or sentence structure that is not in line with previous writing assignments that he/she has completed. I don’t catch everything, but when I do, it’s definitely a lesson for the rest of the kids, and a lesson learned (I hope) for the student who plagiarized. Maybe then, he/she will think again about cheating.

Sorry about the lengthy post. This is a topic that irks me.

By Jeff

May 6, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

jim:

A cheater - by definition - has given up. For whatever reason, they are saying “I can’t do this…”.

And at that point, they are useful to NO ONE and are BEYOND repair.

Therefore, you treat them the same as you would a horse with a broken leg. To do anything else is cruel and unusual.

By jim d

May 6, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

all I can say to that jeff is that I’m glad cops don’t feel that way when they catch us speeding!

By Jeff

May 6, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

jim:

I don’t know how you get off trying to compare cheating and speeding. There IS no comparison. There are REASONS to speed - not the least of which is personal safety on the interstate. There is NEVER a reason to cheat.

By jim d

May 6, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately jeff,

People thinking as you do is the problem.Condeming others for cheating when you in fact may be cheating every day.

Webster defines cheating as violating rules dishonestly. In the speeding example i provided one would be violating the rules of the road. So should one be shot?

By jim d

May 6, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

Jeff, ever wonder where kids come up with all these wonderful excuses for cheating?

“There are REASONS to speed - not the least of which is personal safety on the interstate”

How do you think a kid would hear that comment? Might it sound like this one? “well, everyone else was doing it so I guess it’s ok”

Tell that one to a cop going down Ga. 300. I can tell you for a fact he won’t buy it! LOL

By jim d

May 6, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Teach too,

I won’t deny those parents exist. I will however state that I think there are more like me. I’ve a 17 year old that has never been caught cheating. Has he? In all probability.(he’s not a saint)

Will he cheat in the future? Odd are highly in favor of it happening. But here’s the thing, most of us realize there is this little thing called personal responsibility and that consequences exist for improper actions. So if and when he is caught cheating he will pay the consequence without me speaking a word.

By alskdjfalsdf

May 6, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

To put the subject back on topic…Students cheat because the consequences do not override the chances for getting away with it. I just asked my students if they would reconsider cheating if they knew that they consequences would be really severe (i.e., they would fail the class if they got caught for even copying homework). The answer was a resounding “NO! Are you kidding me?” So! We speed because we can do it with minimal consequences~a ticket. We drink a cocktail and drive because we know that we will be fine~no consequences. If we go out and molest a child, the consequences become more severe. Bottom line? Make the consequences more intense and the cheating will stop.

By Dave

May 6, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

jimd, your position is completely asinine, full of holes and basically the same excuse the teenagers use. It’s not a question of do you do it and tell your children not to, it’s a question of right or wrong. Cheating is WRONG. Period. End of discussion. The fact that someone may speed (breaking the law) doesn’t have any bearing on whether telling your kids not to cheat. Your excuse is a red herring that all teenagers use at one time or another. It’s an EXCUSE to justify a wrong. They are just saying “So I cheated, so what. You were speeding yesterday, so don’t tell me that cheating is wrong.” First, after I read you the riot act about talking to an adult in that manner, I’ll tell you again. Cheating is WRONG and if you get caught, you deserve your consequences whatever they may be. Don’t change the subject, don’t come up with excuses, stop sniviling that “everyone is doing it.” There is no holier than thou attitude, I’m telling you cheating is WRONG…no grey area and no justification. Jim D, you sound like you, yourself are the very teenager that got caught and trying to justify it by saying “You stop doing everything that is dishonest and then, I’ll stop cheating.” If you can’t see the mess you are shoveling, you are either that teenager or your IQ and common sense is about that of a teenager.

By catlady

May 6, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

On the dumb/smart debate: I had a kid several years ago. He was in 5th grade, but his work was about a first grade level. His handwriting was more like kindergarten level. One day, he stole a girl’s markers and when confronted said he had just put the wrong initials on his (the markers said CJ. Her name was Cathy Jones. His was Larry Davis). Another time, he erased the name off the paper of the kid with the neatest handwriting, put his on (in his usual unreadable form) and then swore the paper was his!

I am telling this to show the LEVEl of cheating may be different.

By catlady

May 6, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

BTW, it isn’t just Latino students whose culture may okay things we think of as “unfair support” to others (copying, cheating). Other nationalities have it as a commonly accepted custom. And anyone who sees it as “us” against “them” would cheat; for example, back in the early days of this country at Yale or Harvard, cheating was a very common form of rebelion. Of course, back then the tutors would also strike the students, and sometimes there were all out brawls among students and faculty (see, for instance, the book Campus Life). Humm. Maybe not a lot has changed.

By Dave

May 6, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

If you get caught cheating, the first time you fail the test, 2nd, fail the class, third time you are expelled from school. I also like the notion earlier that it is noted on your college records that you were caught cheating X number of times.

By Sammi

May 6, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

Y’all all know the big security thing that goes with the CRCT test booklets, I’m sure. A teacher on my hall used to laugh abouta that ….. because she said none of the kids cared enough to go to the trouble of sneaking a peek at the questions. When she gave open book tests, the kids wouldn’t even put in the effort to look up the answers. What a sad, sad tale.

By jim d

May 6, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Dave,

And you dear sir have the comprehension of a door knob.

Let me see If i can break it down for you.

1: I never stated cheating was ok

2: To the contrary I’ve attempted to explain that, we as adults lead by example.

3: I’ve attempted to explain how children view those examples in comparison to our words.

4: All of this was to examine WHY cheating occurs. because without understanding WHY there is no way to prevent it.

5: Unfortunately, I’m far from being a teen ager and the why is just human nature.

6: that (5) being said—cheating will never be eliminated as long as man has a competitive nature,and that my friend I hope never happens.

By HS Teacher Too

May 6, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

jim d,

I think you’re entirely correct that we often live by “do as we say, not as we do;” but I think in some sense you are comparing apples and oranges.

That being said, you are 100% correct that the broader message — that cheating is everywhere around us — is true, and it does inform our behavior, and our kids’ behavior. But, at the end of the day, we need to be able to put our heads on our pillows. (how many cliches can I put in a sentence?!) So it comes down to, for me, the difference between right and wrong — or, if you will, the difference between a “lie” and a “white lie,” or a “fib.” We all make these choices all the time! Here’s an example that I had happen to me just the other day — the clerk at McDonald’s gave me the wrong change. It was 25 cents off. I knew it instantly but didn’t say a word. Now, would I have spoken up if she gave me change from a $20 when I gave her a $10. More than likely.

I won’t stand here and say I never cheated. Heck yes, I cheated. I especially cheated in honors classes, where competition was stiff, the A was not only good for college, but was a status symbol, and everyone did it! Yes, it’s true! We justified our actions like champs, we did! Our attitude was this: the teacher knows about it and won’t fix it. Thus, to not cheat is to willfully give your competition an advantage. We looked at it as a capitalist approach. The answers were out there and the teaher knew it — we’d be foolish to not take advantage of it, and the teacher was foolish to do nothing about it.

Now, the difference, if you’ll indulge me, is that we were not the bottom kids. We all did still do our reading, and know the material. We just weren’t willing to risk an A- when an A was there “for the taking.”

Was it right? No. Would I condone it as a teacher? No. But then ask, “would I let it happen as a teacher?” ALSO no — at least to the extent that I could prevent it.

Another thing to consider as to the prevalence of cheating is that today’s media-frenzied age is a very different environment from when most of us (30+) grew up. It was harder, “back in the day” to copy — you couldn’t just highlight and right click! We had no Internet to use for research. I really believe that —not counting the kids who really DO intend to plagiarize — there are plenty of kids who don’t understand the nuances of it, who think that citing their source makes it “all legit.” In that sense, I think that cheating on a test is a graver sin, if you will, than plagiarizing on a paper, because the intent is so much clearer, and the cheating is (possibly) that much more difficult to pull off. Maybe that’s backwards logic. I’m open to convincing otherwise.

I’m rambling. It has been that kind of a day.

By jim d

May 6, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

HS teach too,

Frankly, I appreciate your honesty.

Thanks, it’s a refreshing change on this blog today.

By Stacey

May 6, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

I admit that I cheated as a student. I didn’t copy off of peoples test or smuggle in “cheat sheets” but I did read Cliff Notes and/or rent movies to gain enough information to get a B on tests when I didn’t want to/couldn’t get into a book. (I love to read but I HATE mythology & never read those books). My high school Algebra I teacher “checked” homework 10 times each quarter (we had it every night) and if we attempted it, we got 10 points. Since she tended to all classes on the same day, I rarely did my homework unless my best friend (who had her class two periods before I did) told me she checked homework. Even then, I just copied the problems, scribbled down something that looked like figuring and wrote “an answer” down so that when she walked through and did a spot check, mine was always done. For the record, I was an A student but rarely did homework unless it was something that I felt I needed to practice.

By luvs2teach

May 6, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

They cheat because they can…there are no real consequences from either the school or their parents, and many feel the end justifies the means.

Jeff will like this one - they cheat because they don’t fear - they don’t fear getting caught, and they don’t fear the consequences if they do.

I had a pretty strong Catholic upbringing, and I did fear getting caught - or even cheating just in the eyes of God. I never cheated in school (go on, don’t believe me - but it’s true) and I’ve never cheated on my taxes - why? I’m too afraid of getting caught.

Do I speed? Sure - but guess what? I slow down if I see a cop - why? I’m afraid of getting caught…

See the pattern? Jim d is right - we all do things we’re not supposed to - how often and to what extent depend on our personal morality and fear of getting caught! (BTW - I’ve never kissed a neighbor - but then again, I have ugly neighbors, lol - JK!)

I have been able to reduce some of the cheating that could take place in my classroom. I use different forms of tests; I give assignments that aren’t easily plagiarized from the ‘net. I also do a mini-unit on how the brain works and how long short term memory can hold information (such as copying a friend’s assignment). Kids that let their friends copy believe they are helping - I tell them they are actually making their friends dumber.

Does it stop it completely? Of course not! I had a student that needed to make up a quiz that I had already returned. I made a new version for her. She finished exceptionally quickly, and when I graded it, not only did she have every one wrong, they were the right answers for the other version of the quiz. I handed it back, and feigned concern, “Oh, honey, you really didn’t get that section, did you?” She looked confused, looked at her quiz, almost said something, and then I said, “You didn’t think I’d bother to use a different version, did you?” Her silence confirmed everything.

By HS Teacher Too

May 6, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this

luvs, I love it! I once gave a take-home test to two math classes that had 60 different versions. Literally, each student had a different version!! Oh, were the students sour … and it was HILARIOUS to watch them try to find a way to ask me how many versions there were without giving away that they had tried, and tried (and tried!) to find someone to work with, to no avail …!

(It was not THAT bad to grade. I just worked a LOT of math problems and graded each exam, one at a time, over a week…!)

i’m also pretty famous for my make-up tests being a different format from the original. So, say if the original had a multiple-choice component, that turns into short-answer. And of course the problems always change. (“ooh, there was a word problem about parabolas …” turns into a word problem on hyperbolas, that kind of thing.)

By HS Teacher Too

May 6, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

jim d, glad you find it refreshing. It’s just the truth.

Let me add this: When the fact that the teacher in question re-used previous years’ exams became known, and when it became apparent that the exams were “out there,” I had a long talk with my parents about what was the “right” thing to do. The FIRST thing I did was to talk to the teacher, but the teacher wanted nothing to do with it. Only THEN did my parents and I come to the conclusion that, while cheating is wrong, it was foolish to take a moral stand when all I would be doing is giving my classmates an unfair advantage. Was this a rationalization? Sure it was. But in light of the circumstances, we felt that the fairness of “balancing the field,” so to speak, trumped — or at least outweighed — the concerns that ultimately it was cheating. That partly came down to the teacher’s almost-sanctioning of it, and partly came down to our own comfort level with making that decision. I think it was also affected by the fact that we were, after all, talking about the difference between an A and an A-, and not the difference between an A and a C.

Doesn’t make it right, but made it “right enough” to accept.

By americacheated

May 6, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this

Cheating in schools is rampant. Students either cheat or don’t care enough to put forth the effort to try. What about credit recovery? The school I am working in wants teachers to offer credit recovery to every students regardless of the final grade. Most schools require a student to earn a 65-69 in order to attempt credit recovery. I’d like to hear about credit recovery policies in other districts. If you want to keep teachers in Georgia stop requiring teachers to pass every student no matter how little he or she does to earn it. Let teachers maintain there dignity. Why should I teach my heart out while “little Bobby” sleeps only to have to offer it to him as credit recovery because he might not pass and that would ruin our graduation rate? What is the credit recovery policy in your district? Why do we offer credit recovery in school- the real world doesn’t have credit recovery? I can’t ask for more hours at work just because I don’t feel like coming to work. What is your attendance policy? Is it inforced? Do students get promoted to the next grade regardless of excessive absences?

By TeacherMom

May 6, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

americacheated, Although this is a bit off-topic, I completely agree with you about credit recovery. What a crock! We allow students with a 60 average to do credit recovery, and the students take full advantage of it. I can’t tell you the number of failing students who have told me “I don’t care if I’m failing your class, I’ll just do credit recovery ‘cause it’s easier.” It galls me every time!

As for our attendance policy, it is enforced sporadically. If a student is absent 10 consecutive days without excuse, we notify the parents and withdraw the student. Other students with 8 or more non-consecutive absences in any class have to go before the attendance committee (a joke!) to receive credit. However, I have a student in an afternoon class who has missed 24 days of my class because her mom wants to take her shopping or she’s singing with band or chorus or she just wants to go home for the day, and since she’s an honors student and mommy writes her excuses, she’ll easily snow the committee and get credit for my honors class. Ridiculous!

HS Teacher Too, 60 individual tests? Unbelievable. You are my hero!

By thomas

May 6, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Forget about the students cheating. What about the teachers??!!! We just had the CRCT and you can only imagine the kind of rampant cheating and malfeasance perpetrated by teachers and administrators on this test. If truth were to come out, it would be ALL over the news.

If the public only knew what REALLY goes on in school. I swear before my God that you have people working in school who should NEVER be in close proximity of children. People who should, instead be in jail. I personally know of three instances, three separate adults (two of whom are teachers) who have committed immoral acts, including assault, on students without punishment or remorse. The principal (and in turn, the school system) regularly covers up this sickness and insanity. If you only knew a tiny sliver of the truth.

Some of our schools are sad, poisonous places that actually destroy children.

By blueja

May 6, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

Quote ” I’m sure it comes as no shock that even with the evidence right before her, the parent denied that her child had cheated. She flat-out told me that if her child said he didn’t cheat, then he didn’t cheat.”

What do you say at that point? Do you ever just wonder if there even is a point to all this? A question for the HS teachers out there: After you google all the research papers to check for cheaters, is there any point to grading? I imagine I would end up giving an A to anyone who didn’t cheat.
I am glad I teach primary.

By blueja

May 6, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

On the other hand, why bother even checking for cheaters or grading. If you can’t give a student the grade he or she truly deserves, why even waste time going through the motions?

By teach1

May 6, 2008 10:58 PM | Link to this

Yesterdays opinion blog was related to an educational topic. You may want to check it out.

http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/2008/05/06/newatted.html

By Lee

May 6, 2008 11:20 PM | Link to this

Sheesh! All these teachers on here blogging about how they are against cheaters and plagiarism and how there should be severe consequences when these cheaters are caught. Heck, we’ve even got the resident village idiot talking about how he would “…allow a known child molester to rape my daughter any way he wanted before I would even THINK to BEGIN to tolerate ANY form of cheating.”

But yet, every January, these same sanctimonious hypocrites line up to pay politically correct homage to one of the most famous liars, cheats, and plagiarizers this country has known.

That’s right. I’m talking about ‘ol Martin Luther King himself. How convenient that you teachers seem to ignore that little tidbit of history.

PS, Jeff; get a vasectomy and then get psychiatric help - in that order.

By Lee

May 6, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this

JustMe asks: “This is a problem with morals and values. So the question is - SHOULD schools be teaching morals and values…”

Whose morals and values? Yours? Jeff’s? (God forbid)

Might want to just stick with that readin’, writin’ and ‘rithmetic stuff…

By Future Counselor

May 6, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this

I’m late to the comment game, but what does speeding have to do with cheating? Before I’m called pious, I speed (it’s kinda necessary to get from where I live to downtown)!

I speed, drink, and do several other things considered less than desirable, but I don’t cheat. I bend rules, but make sure I don’t break them. In my own work, I put effort into understanding the material and doing the best on assignments because I am interested in learning. What infuriates me about cheating is that it shows a lack of respect for the material. Corny concept, yes. But that’s the problem. For example, if students can’t at least respect the idea of writing a research paper (e.g. formal writing skills, acceptable sources), they will do what? Go to Jimmy’sResearchPaper Engine and find a “passable” BS paper. What so sad is that I can imagine most students FAILING at picking passable (i.e. teacher can’t tell it’s fake) BS papers!!

In short, it’s a motivation problem. If it continues to be ALL about grades, pleasing (DA) parents and administrators, kids will continue to cheat and DA arguments about how much and how to stop cheating will continue.The question is ow can we get students to at least respect the material being taught enough to care enough attempt it for themselves?

By Craig

May 7, 2008 5:06 AM | Link to this

Cheatin’? Whuzzz cheatin’? Oh, that. “Everybody” does that.

By Jeff

May 7, 2008 5:41 AM | Link to this

Luvs:

While I agree with you to an extent about the fear factor, to me it goes even deeper:

All my life, I’ve wanted to be THE BEST. And I REFUSE to go go around the wall when I encounter it. I’ll go over it or through it, but never around it. I view tests/assignments more as a contest between the teacher and myself rather than me and the other kids. And I have been known - when I was particularly sure that I had made a 95 or higher - to walk up to the teacher when I handed in the test with a smirk on my face and literally tell them “Is that the best you got?”. To the tune that teachers would begin to put things on tests to intentionally test my - and a few others’ - true ability.

Cheating is a violation of the honor of the game, and to me it is one of only two ways to lose honor in the game. (The other being flat out giving up.) I would rather try on my own and fail miserably than to cheat and succeed. Not because of my fear of getting caught. But because of my pride in myself and my abilities, as well as my sense of honor.

‘Honor’. Another cheapened word these days. No wonder so much of America is going to Hades in a handbasket. Those that do revere the concept mostly get it wrong (I’m thinking of the idiots that shoot somebody because said person called them a name.) But for the most part nobody really cares about it any more. Same thing with Integrity.

Funny, the two things we need now more than ever are going by the wayside faster than Vanilla Ice.

By jim d

May 7, 2008 6:50 AM | Link to this

ROTFLOL!!

“I bend rules, but make sure I don’t break them.”

This one gets my vote for the best justification of cheating.

God, I love you guys and your warped sense of humor!

By JustMe

May 7, 2008 8:00 AM | Link to this

Lee Take a valium, man! First, not ALL teachers agree, as you imply. Second, my question as to if schools SHOULD teach values and morals was rhetorical - in fact, I agree that schools should not. However, when parents fail to do their job, what other choice is there?

When parents do not teach right from wrong, schools get kids without any knowledge of how to properly behave. And, you can only imagine the difficultly of trying to teach a room full of unruely kids anything.

By TeacherMom

May 7, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

Sorry, Jeff, but I have a hard time reading anything you have to say about honor and integrity after the asinine comments you have made.

You expect anyone to think you have any integrity after stating that cheating on a test is more evil than child molestation?

It is apparent that you don’t have a daughter nor have you been a victim of rape. Sit back and think about what you said. Until you have walked in the shoes of those who have been there, you don’t have a clue.

By Jeff

May 7, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

TeacherMom:

A child molester attacks other people. Evil, no doubt. And an evil that I personally find is the lowest EXTERNAL scum on the planet.

Cheating, however, reveals an INTERNAL evil. And THOSE evils, in general, are often far WORSE than external ones. Which is why cheaters rank below child molesters in my book.

Let’s face it: You don’t find an honest sociopath. You don’t find an honest child molester. You don’t find an honest thief. They ALL commit their crimes in secrecy and/ or try to hide the results.

And THAT tendency begins when no one else is watching. Same as cheating. You think you won’t get caught, so you do it. Depending upon exactly how warped you become, you begin to extrapolate that same reasoning to bigger and bigger crimes.

In regards to ‘until you have walked in their shoes’, see my earlier comment regarding being single vs being married. The things I said I would do to protect T back when I was single and didn’t know her, I live every word of now and mean them more than ever. The same can be said here. Just as I would NEVER allow a known child molester to even THINK about doing something to my daughter and me find out about it (and you DON’T want to know what would happen to him in this situation), I despise cheaters 10,000X moreso.

By Future Counselor

May 7, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

“I bend rules but make sure I don’t break them”

Jim, Since you didn’t understand the context of it, that was NOT a justification for cheating, academically or otherwise. My point was that I tread many fine lines, but I don’t jump them. Sometimes to do what right, bending is appropriating.

Cheating is not bending, it’s wrong. I’m rather bothered by the fact that you would rather shrug at the issue and suggest letting half-assed educated children continue on to eventually the world and therefore becoming half-assed educated adults. No way do I see that as an option.

By TeacherMom

May 7, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

to the other TeacherMom….sorry I didn’t mean to use your screen name.

I would allow a known child molester to rape my daughter any way he wanted before I would even THINK to BEGIN to tolerate ANY form of cheating.

Jeff, you said it…go back and read it. Stupidity was never more plain. Talk all you want about what you said before and what you are doing now. Until you have a daughter, until you have experienced rape, you don’t know what you are talking about! Face it, you used an extremely poor choice to illustrate your point.

By Jeff

May 7, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

TeacherMom:

Actually, I used the PERFECT illustration.

If you’ve been here very long at all, you know how protective I am of my family and what lengths I will go to to protect them. Quite honestly, nothing evokes my violence and brutality more than the thought of someone harming my family. And the worse the harm, the more violent and brutal I become. To the point that I mean what I said earlier when I said you don’t want to know what I would do - it would make the most disgusting thing you’ve ever contemplated or seen in the most graphic horror movies look like a bright, sunny day.

That I would allow something to happen which normally I am that against shows how much I DESPISE cheating. To the point that if forced to allow one of the two things to happen, I would choose to allow my daughter to be harmed like that rather than allow someone to cheat.

In a sense, it is the EXACT stand that God takes in regards to sin. He would rather His only son DIE than to even contemplate allowing sin to go unpunished.

By Lee

May 7, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this

Jeff, there is an age old adage that says: “Tis better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.”

Sage advice. Take it. The more you try to explain your comment, the more foolish you appear.

By TeacherMom.(copycat!)

May 8, 2008 6:04 AM | Link to this

Lee…Thank you! I have never been rendered completly speechless by stupidity until the reply from Jeff.

Jeff… 1. I am thankful I am not your daughter.

By jim d

May 8, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

Teachmom,

Yeah, now it’s Jeff’s turn to walk upon the waters!!

By Jeff

May 8, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this

TeacherMom(copycat):

You want to talk about pain, lady? You don’t know the meaning of the word.

I once described mine in a fairly vivid way: Imagine a nuclear blast goes off right above your head and scatters your pieces all over Georgia, yet does not let you die.

I’ve gone to Hades and back quite a few times in my life, and you know the one thing that remains true?

It hurts worse every time, yet when I come back I am stronger than ever.

I’ve learned to accept temporary pain so that I can achieve even greater heights, even when it looks like things can only get worse.

Strength, in weakness.

Sound familiar?

You look at your pain as something that you would never wish on anyone, and I used to say the same.

Now, I’ve learned to wish the depth of pain I’ve felt on EVERYONE so that they can find that truth:

Strength, in weakness.

One of the most powerful weapons of both offense and defense I’ve ever run across.

By jim d

May 8, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this

Strength in weakness?

You really don’t get it do you Jeff?

Can i break that sermon down for you?

The concept of strength in weakness is really about emptying ourselves of ourselves, so that God can fill in the space. It’s only by admitting our weaknesses, and accepting God’s grace that we can gain true strength. In many spiritual battles, or even tests of will, our own strength is not enough to carry us through. We need God. And the only way we can get God’s strength is to get ourselves out of the way and let Him work.

We ain’t talking physical or even mental strength here my friend, we are talking spiritual strength. Please don’t use this sermon to attempt to justify placing a bullet between someones eyes.

By Jim d

May 8, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

Jim d…I guess you are right. He must also be omniscient since he can tell what I know and don’t know about pain.

Jeff…it is amazing. I have been reading this blog for a couple of years - and following your adventures. Yours is always bigger, better, worse, more dangerous, stronger…you get the picture. I’ll give you this - you can twist a story better than any I’ve seen (except the wonderful little ones that I discipline on a daily basis!)

You like to quote scriptures, but apparently there are many you haven’t gotten around to reading - like the ones on kindness, honesty, forgiveness,respect,compassion, empahty, sympathy,foolishness, etc. (guess the Bible is not on your list of books for the year, uh?).

BE PREPARED…his next comment will tell me how much he knows about scripture and how little I must know!

And no, Jeff, I would never wish hurt on anyone. I would not wish anyone to suffer sadness or death or anguish. I believe that I can offer sympathy to those who suffer because I have been there.

When you have children, we will talk again about wishing pain on others. When you have buried a child who suffered pain, we will talk. When you have held a hurt and dying child, we will talk.

So, sir, I do know pain. And I don’t wish it on anyone.

Have a great day. This will be my last comment to you. I have much better things to do with my day.

By TeachMom

May 8, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

Jim d…I guess you are right. He must also be omniscient since he can tell what I know and don’t know about pain.

Jeff…it is amazing. I have been reading this blog for a couple of years - and following your adventures. Yours is always bigger, better, worse, more dangerous, stronger…you get the picture. I’ll give you this - you can twist a story better than any I’ve seen (except the wonderful little ones that I discipline on a daily basis!)

You like to quote scriptures, but apparently there are many you haven’t gotten around to reading - like the ones on kindness, honesty, forgiveness,respect,compassion, empahty, sympathy,foolishness, etc. (guess the Bible is not on your list of books for the year, uh?).

BE PREPARED…his next comment will tell me how much he knows about scripture and how little I must know!

And no, Jeff, I would never wish hurt on anyone. I would not wish anyone to suffer sadness or death or anguish. I believe that I can offer sympathy to those who suffer because I have been there.

When you have children, we will talk again about wishing pain on others. When you have buried a child who suffered pain, we will talk. When you have held a hurt and dying child, we will talk.

So, sir, I do know pain. And I don’t wish it on anyone.

Have a great day. This will be my last comment to you. I have much better things to do with my day.

By TeachMom

May 8, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

Jim d…I guess you are right. He must also be omniscient since he can tell what I know and don’t know about pain.

Jeff…it is amazing. I have been reading this blog for a couple of years - and following your adventures. Yours is always bigger, better, worse, more dangerous, stronger…you get the picture. I’ll give you this - you can twist a story better than any I’ve seen (except the wonderful little ones that I discipline on a daily basis!)

You like to quote scriptures, but apparently there are many you haven’t gotten around to reading - like the ones on kindness, honesty, forgiveness,respect,compassion, empahty, sympathy,foolishness, etc. (guess the Bible is not on your list of books for the year, uh?).

BE PREPARED…his next comment will tell me how much he knows about scripture and how little I must know!

And no, Jeff, I would never wish hurt on anyone. I would not wish anyone to suffer sadness or death or anguish. I believe that I can offer sympathy to those who suffer because I have been there.

When you have children, we will talk again about wishing pain on others. When you have buried a child who suffered pain, we will talk. When you have held a hurt and dying child, we will talk.

So, sir, I do know pain. And I don’t wish it on anyone.

Have a great day. This will be my last comment to you. I have much better things to do with my day.

By TeacherMom (copycat)

May 8, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

Jim d… He is also omniscient!

You are so right…he just doesn’t get it!

I have better things to do than to spend my time trying to reason with the unreasonable. ( I can go visit a kindergarten class if I want to do that!)

Apparently, only part of the scriptures have made it to his uncomparable reading list. He failed to read those on love, kindness, forgiveness, honesty, foolishness, arrogance, hautiness, etc.

BE PREPARED…the next post will talk about how much more he knows about scripture than the rest of us!

But, I have to tell him that there is pain beyond what he has suffered or imagined.

By TeacherMom (copycat)

May 8, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

Oh my! I don’t know how that happened! Did not mean to post and post and post! SORRY.

By Lee

May 8, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this

(I know I shouldn’t bait someone like this, but sometimes Jeff says such stupid s** that it’s impossible to ignore)

Yeah Jeff, I guess you do know a little about pain. I imagine getting run off from TWO teaching jobs in less than a year is a bit painful.