Get Schooled

By JustMe

May 5, 2008 7:49 AM | Link to this

Schools are scrambling to get kids to do the right thing - this is true. The cause of this is (sorry jd) that the parents are not doing their job.

Should schools be forced to “bribe” students to do the right thing (study, improve grades, not be tardy, not be absent)? No. Students coming to school should already have those values instilled by their parents from home.

I do feel that this is just a very sad statement on our society as a whole - and not a reflection of school in particular.

By SorrySociety

May 5, 2008 8:01 AM | Link to this

How about a little discipline, or a nice heavy belt to the @ss (if necessary)?? Worked for me.

My children have NO CHOICE but to give their BEST in school. And as long as they do that I don’t have (and never had) to worry about the grades.

By mom3boys

May 5, 2008 8:04 AM | Link to this

Somewhere along the way, it is imperative for students to become self-motivated and self-directed in their learning. I’ve always questions whether or not parents should offer financial incentives for grades; I’ve never done it as a matter of course, but have thrown the occassional bone (i.e. if you pull out straight A’s this semester I’ll give you $$). I do not believe tax dollars or school discretionary funds should be used for this. In low performing areas, grants or other windfalls being used for this does not bother me. If this is what it takes for some kids to see the “bigger picture” and realize they can have a brighter future, than go right ahead. For some, good grades are the reward…others need a bit more. Perhaps if this program is successful where it’s being used, some students will have the motivation to go on and attend college and break the poverty cycle…which will save us all $$ in the long run. However, I also see the potential for abuse and grade inflation…

By mom3boys

May 5, 2008 8:04 AM | Link to this

Somewhere along the way, it is imperative for students to become self-motivated and self-directed in their learning. I’ve always questions whether or not parents should offer financial incentives for grades; I’ve never done it as a matter of course, but have thrown the occassional bone (i.e. if you pull out straight A’s this semester I’ll give you $$). I do not believe tax dollars or school discretionary funds should be used for this. In low performing areas, grants or other windfalls being used for this does not bother me. If this is what it takes for some kids to see the “bigger picture” and realize they can have a brighter future, than go right ahead. For some, good grades are the reward…others need a bit more. Perhaps if this program is successful where it’s being used, some students will have the motivation to go on and attend college and break the poverty cycle…which will save us all $$ in the long run. However, I also see the potential for abuse and grade inflation…

By jim d

May 5, 2008 8:05 AM | Link to this

JM,

Parenting comment aside we pretty much agree that we shouldn’t be paying kids to go to school.

It is JMHO that if we wish to motivate students we simply need to allow them to fail. Failure is one of the best motivators I’m aware of. It works in industry and I have no doubt making examples of those that are less than motivated would provide ample motivation for anyone riding the fence.

We need to quit coddling these kids and let them know that success or failure is entirely in their hands.

Just a side note here JM, This approach might actually have a positive affect on peoples “parenting skills.”

By jim d

May 5, 2008 8:13 AM | Link to this

Let’s see. How much crack equates to $8 per hour?

Jeff, wanna run the higher math on that one?

By lwa

May 5, 2008 8:14 AM | Link to this

I do not agree with paying kids to study. Kids need to learn at an early age that there are some things that are expected of them: saying please and thank you, studying in school, opening the door for your elders, etc. If we pay them, what lessons are we teaching them.

By who cares?

May 5, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this

No one should be rewarded for doing what should be expected from them. And if these stupid kids don’t feel the need to go to school, who cares? We won’t be wasting our money on them by buying their food and school supplies.

By jim d

May 5, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this

just a couple of quotes that come to mind on “freedom to fail”

There can be no real freedom without the freedom to fail.”

— Erich Fromm

The freedom to fail is vital if you’re going to succeed. Most successful people fail from time to time, and it is a measure of their strength that failure merely propels them into some new attempt at success.

—-Michael Korda

By lwa

May 5, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

I have an idea. Let’s have a school exchange program. Every child in America that does not want to learn (you can take entire schools, entire classrooms, etc) swap them with kids from foreign countries with kids who want to learn. After a month of no running water, 1 book per class, no air conditioning or no heat, walking several miles to the school house, etc, there won’t be any more problems with American kids in school.

Problem Solved.

By milton

May 5, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this

Kids are kids. That means that they are not qualified to run things. Adults, stop letting kids run you. Or are YOU less qualified to run things that they are. Between children and pets, adults seem to be taking a back seat to both. Just think, people earn masters degrees, doctorate degrees, etc., then turn control of the world over to unqualified children and pets. No schooling needed to be an idiot.

By WFC

May 5, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

I’m certainly for discipline in schools and against the “coddling” of students. However, dismissing the “pay for study” plans out of hand seems short-sighted.

The concept of “deferred gratification” is a middle class construct based on family assets. I don’t pay my son for grades and have made it quite clear to him that “learning is his job.” However, I have also educated him about the financial realities of the world. He knows that he will inherit a nice “nest egg” from his family… if and only if he graduates from college. Contrast this with a student whose family has no assets.

Why is it that we are quite willing to pay teens to sling burgers but balk at paying them to become educated? In American culture, “money talks and BS walks.” That’s just the way it is.

It’s silly to expect children from families with no history of educational attainment or professional success to be motivated by the same values as those who have grown to maturity surrounded by these concepts and the money that goes with them.

By BlackGirl

May 5, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

In my house, Honor Rool is an expectation. Now, if it doesn’t happen, there are consequences unless I know that the child has worked their hardest and still couldn’t make at least a “B” then I’m okay. My goal is to force them to work their hardest. I have rewarded them for doing well with doing something that they really enjoy. I’ve never given money but I don’t disagree with it. It’s perfectly fine to reward your kids for doing well. However, as I stated earlier, there must be the expectation of success first.

By V for Vendetta

May 5, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

I think the pathetic nature of this program is obvious enough, but I want to point out something that I find equally disturbing:

If this took place in my child’s school district, I would be OUTRAGED. I would be at every BOE meeting banging an enormous drum, talking to every reporter I could lay my hands on, and bemoaning the state of our educational system in general. And yet, do you hear a peep out of the people whose children attend these schools? Not hardly. Maybe a whimper.

To me that’s indicative of the value placed on education in these areas. The parents there probably support the measure, hopefully thinking that such a program will babysit their children for just a few more minutes a day. If you were to initiate this program in Clayton or Dekalb you’d probably see the same trend. In a few years Cobb and Gwinnett will follow suit. Pathetic.

The only thing worse than the state of public education is the speed with which so many push it ever lower. When will it end?

Or better yet, will it EVER end?

By Mike In Woodstock

May 5, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

LAME BLOG.

By jim d

May 5, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

WFC,

Take a look around at the kids recieving strippends for attending high School.

Note the $150 shoes, the cell phones, the $50 T shirts. etc. Cutting them a check every month will not change their attitude towards education. Well not in a positive way anyways.

By JustMe

May 5, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

jd - The problem with your ‘just letting the kids fail’ solution is that you will create a self-fulfilling prophecy for yourself. You, first and foremost, will quickly point out the high failure rate and immediately scream that schools are not doing their job. Of course, you will then also (again) beat your drum of choice, private schools, yadda, yadda.

Get the point?

By mom3boys

May 5, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

For kids coming from supportive homes where education is a priority, school success is an expectation. For kids w/ no support system and parents without a clue, this might provide some motivation. My expectation is for A’s w/ occassional B’s. When B’s>A’s, I ground. However, I have offered $$ for all A’s at critical times (i.e. senioritis is setting in). As long as tax dollars are not used, and this program is reaching a before-unreached segment, who does it hurt? What is the option? Watch the continued cycle of entitlement continue? Try it, gather the data, determine if it’s worth continuing.

By mystery poster

May 5, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

When we say that it’s good for kids to fail, that might be true for middle class kids for whom failure means you dust yourself off, learn from it, and pick yourself back up with the help and support of your parents.

For these kids, though, failure becomes a way of life. They don’t learn from it, they expect it. It becomes a downward spiral of low achievement, low expectations and failure.

This doesn’t address the question of the day, though, just a personal observation.

By jim d

May 5, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

Niet me!, Non Me!, ¡No Yo!, Não Mim!

I really don’t care how many fail as long as they have the freedom to fail.

Understand what I’m saying here?

Life is full of choices, sometimes we make good ones and some times not. You want to really teach people something useful? Rather than teaching them to choose as you’d have them, teach them to set goals and how to work towards achieving them. But leave the choices to them.

By Peaches

May 5, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

It’s true that I was raised in an environment in which I was expected to succeed and that was an advantage to me. However, my parents were not. They achieved in spite of difficult environmental factors. My children have done far better than I did. We don’t have a long family heritage of academic achievement. Each generation has done the best they could with what they were given. Let me suggest that this is a model for how families and ultimately groups of people and even races, move from one level to another. Government stipends are not the way. Certainly having generations move backwards is not on the right path. Thriving is about doing the best you can with what you have. There is usually far more potential at hand than there is result. Focus on what you can do, what you can accomplish, and less on how someone else might have an advantage over you.

By V for Vendetta

May 5, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

Agreed, JimD.

It’s called PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY. Many kids now would do well to look into it. So would their parents.

It doesn’t matter how many fail. If you don’t perform, you deserve to fail.

Laura, another interesting topic would be disctricts that have stopped giving a grade of zero for assignments … EVEN IF THE KID TURNS NOTHING IN. Other districts have stopped failing kids altogether. Pathetic.

By teach1

May 5, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

I do not think a finacial movivation is a bad thing. Now, the Learn and Earn Program seems over the top.

For our HS daughter, the expectation is she will receive nothing less than a B. She has never let us down. But we do pay her. The plan is that she will pay us if she ever gets a C or lower. She wants to do her best is often harder on herself, than we would be, for a lower than expected grade.

We have often told her, “School is your job right now.” Getting good grades is part of that job.” School is something she has to work at. It does not come easy for her. She deserves to be rewarded for her hard work. Come on how many of us work 8 hours a day for free?

By Oldtimer

May 5, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

Learn and Earn???? Should we be surprised? Did it all begin withe the “behavior modification” fad that spread through school systems like wildfire ??? When did it begin?

Many, if not most,successful individuals who are today over 50 yrs. old, did not come from families in which parents were involved in there education…always there motivating, rewarding, coaxing, pushing. Nor did they attend schools where tangible rewards were an integral part of the program. Nor did they have “choice” of schools, or “vouchers” . They did, however, have parents who “expected” certain things from their offspring. Their class status, marital status of parents, nuumber of children in the family, family income,residence location was all but irrelevant!!

Edcation in the U.S. just keeps spiraling DOWNDOWNDOWN, funded by and made impotent by every CURE du JOUR whose bandwagon inept politicians pile on.

By JustMe

May 5, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

Oh, come on, jd and V and others… Are you honestly telling me that you don’t look at a schools “failure” rate (on CRCT, on HSGT, etc), or low scores on SAT, or whatever, and “ASSUME” that it is because it is a “bad” school (with “bad” teachers)???? I find that hard to believe considering the historic content of posts from you.

By Oldtimer

May 5, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

And …..Jimd is right about “freedom to fail” being an absolute necessity! Public schools were never meant to be, have never been, and will never be able to be ALL THINGS TO ALL STUDENTS!! That’s where we got mired into Deep D D. While other countries recognized the [SET’S] BELL CURVE , we did not. While other countries provide other paths to success…[CHOICES].. we insist that everyone go to college …get a white collar job….cut your cookies just alike!!!Doomed to fail!!!

By jim d

May 5, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

Teach 1,

I’m not saying you are wrong, just would like to explain another view.

My child has never been paid for a grade. Grades are expected as is applying oneself 100% to pull the grades. He has never been paid an allowance. I refuse to pay for doing things that are expected within a family(chores). When he receives money for doing something, it must be for more than an expectation, more than doing what he should.

I view his vehicle, gas, and insurance as earned privileges that can be revoked not as a gift.

This approach has worked rather well for us and I think as parents that is the bottom line. Do what works for your family. As for paying stipends to other children? It doesn’t fall within my job description as a parent!

By Oldtimer

May 5, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

How fruitless is Paying students to master advanced math and chemistry [required now of all] when they either don’t want to or for whatever reason just can’t. How long will we have to wait before studies show, research indicates, statitics say that LearN to Earn does not work???Just like none of the Fly by Night programs of the last 30 years do not work.

Why not offer those students other paths to success…and earlier, before they are crushed by the system? Many if not most ways to make a living and contribute to our society do not require mastery of those subjects now required in GA.

By catlady

May 5, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

jim d—what is a strippend? Is it getting paid for going nekkid? :)

Remember that this program is not for younger kids (who have a better chance of making real, life-changing adjustments in thinking). These kids, if motivated, could be more successful. Targeting the older kids, after the bad habits are well-established, seems like it is too late to me.

Even saying that, I think it is a very poor idea for anyone to pay anyone for what they are supposed to be doing in the first place! Should we pay city workers extra for fixing the roads? The a.c. man extra for actually fixing your central air? A state or federal leader gets more for actually showing leadership? Where would it end?

By jim d

May 5, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

Pardon me JM,

You’ve obviously misunderstood my position on any kind of HIGH STAKES TESTING in K-12

Let me take this opportunity to clarify; NO SINGLE TEST WILL,NOR CAN IT, HONESTLY EVALUATE LEARNING!

By jim d

May 5, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

Cat,

LOL—it was a tpyo —corrected in my 11:03. However, your definition does sound like more fun.

By RU kidding

May 5, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

Here’s a thought…
How about not having kids if you’re too damn lazy and self centered to give them the support and discipline they need. Not to mention the fact that you can’t give them the financial support they need. No, that’s up to us taxpayers.

By The Truth

May 5, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

There is nothing wrong with rewarding hard work but paying kids to study is just lazy and a waste of money. Any kid can do well in school if they work hard and stay out of trouble. Too many parents are lazy and let their children do whatever they please. It’s time for more private schools and competition.

By catlady

May 5, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

Teach 1: I differ from you in that I think the 8 (or more!) hours of school work is a gift. It is 8 hours of NOT having to work at a minimum-wage job, or work on the farm. It is 8 hours of work in exchange for a place to live, meals to eat, etc. As a parent, after my “shift” at work, I come home to an unpaid “shift” at home. That is life—the real world. Our children get the gift of something they can have forever—an education—instead of working for money. Their job is to take the opportunity and make the best “investment” of their time and effort possible. (I also recommend each child have duties at home, starting from toddlerhood, that are UNPAID—the price of living in a family where other needs are covered) One reason we have such self-centered children is because they never have to think of others, or the value of others’ time. My kids also had to donate time—uUNPAID—to others in addition to their home chores. These were things like mowing for an obese neighbor, or raking leaves for an elderly neighbor. The old “No man is an island unto himslef” thing.

By FEDUP

May 5, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

Paying for all A’s is one thing. I don’t think this program is designed to pay kids for A’s, there payment usually comes later in the form of the HOPE scholarship. This is paying kids who are failing to study. I’m a proud democrat, I love to help those in need, HOWEVER, I am firmly against paying those who have not tried. If you’re paying someone to study it’s because they are NOT trying. I’m also a teacher. How fair is it to pay someone for not trying when those who do study get nothing??? Helping those in need is one thing, helping those who don’t care is another. I do not work full time, get multiple degrees to make more money, and pay my bills on time only to have to pay more taxes for those who don’t care. I did not birth those kids, I did not raise them. For those who… did TAKE CARE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!! Eventually we’ll be carrying every slug in the country who has been told that their socio-economic status prevents them from succeeding. UGH!

By linda

May 5, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

Perhaps a better motivation would be to have them reimburse taxpayers for wasting funds in the first place. However, that would mean that those children would HAVE to be provided an environment condusive to learning and clear expections of what constitutes success. Classroom discipline and poor teaching materials being what they are in many places makes learning difficult. Again, this looks like another program that isn’t looking at underlying reasons for poor performance. Yes, students need to learn that getting back on track after a failure is tough and it is better to avoid these “mishaps.” Look at all the low-wage workers paying SR22 insurance costs, bounced check fees etc. These people never learned to avoid mistakes and are really trapped in a bad place in life. Not that it is the fault of schools, but certainly some expectations on their part would help these people in the future.

By jim d

May 5, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Here’s a bit of a rant on why public education is in the state of affairs we currently find it.

Schools in the US attempt to teach set curriculums. These curriculums are basically determined by educated people that just don’t understand that an education doesn’t have to evolve around their particular mindset of what an education is. Certainly basic reading and math skills are beneficial to all, but not everyone is destined to become a successful professional in whatever field of endeavor they choose to embark upon.

Education in itself has added to failure as much as to success. Many of the great minds of the past have come from people that had little or no formal higher education, but that didn’t limit their thoughts and imagination, going on to defy conventional thought of the day. Formal public education of today actually stifles this type of creativity by forming definite neural pathways of thought. Man uses habitual methods of thought to approach any challenge. Basically, education has hard-wired our brains for thought, thus limiting creativity.

Until such time as we realize that all students are not cut out for college and start preparing those students for life in the real world, I fear our educational system will continue to flounder in the world of real knowledge and in the basic job of providing an appropriate education.

Should we as Americans demand an educational system modeled more closely to European schools and provide more opportunities for our children to compete in a global market? Or should we just keep paying them to learn?

By Jesse's Girl

May 5, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

You should not pay children for good grades….they should give 100%. I also disagree with allowance for room cleaning, garbage removal and general house care. These things…grades included…are EXPECTED in our home. Going above and beyond will be rewarded, but not always with money.

By teach1

May 5, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

jimd- I do agree paying for other children to learn is beyond fair.

I guess my daughter has a hidden benefit. She is actually part of 2 families (She is actually my step-daughter). Her mom follows pretty much the line most of you here agree to: No pay for grades or chores. It is her responsiblity.

So its a toss up in this case, maybe she is successful because of what her mom has taught her, maybe it is because of the support she gets here at her father’s house. Either way she is definetely a winner.

I do believe, it comes down to each parent NEEDS to do whatever it takes to have their child be happy and successful in this world. The burden should not fall unto others to support your child or you!

By catlady

May 5, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

jim d—I do that quite a bit myself (typos—not the nekkid part) :)

By jim d

May 5, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

Cat,

Too Bad! :-)

By em

May 5, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

Paying students to study galls me especially since the already receive a free taxpayer subsidized education. As a taxpayer, I am dismayed at what I see as a waste of my hard earned money. I have long advocated an Asian or European model of education. This egalitarian model of education we have is serving no one. The purpose of an education is to make productive citizens and that does not necessarily have to include college.

By Matt

May 5, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

I disagree with paying kids to study, since that’s something that they should already be doing.

However, I will concede that paying them for showing improvement in their grades is a good incentive for them to work harder, especially if they don’t come from the supporting homes that most of us seem to have come from.

By oh yea

May 5, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

I sure do pay my kids to study. They get clothes, food and healthcare for doing nothing but that! Isn’t that enough????

By Subject2Change

May 5, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

I really think we’re missing the point if we only discuss how things SHOULD be. Kids should be self motivated and parents should do better at raising them. As far as discipline being implemented in the schools it’s difficult because parents do not want schools to discipline their kids. The question here is what is the alternative? Neccessity is the mother of invention. We can’t sit back and tell our parentless kids what they should be learning from their parents. My only suggestion is that instead of giving the kids money for grades and performance they should have to work it off by tutoring students younger than them. Just a thought!

By Subject2Change

May 5, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

I really think we’re missing the point if we only discuss how things SHOULD be. Kids should be self motivated and parents should do better at raising them. As far as discipline being implemented in the schools it’s difficult because parents do not want schools to discipline their kids. The question here is what is the alternative? Neccessity is the mother of invention. We can’t sit back and tell our parentless kids what they should be learning from their parents. My only suggestion is that instead of giving the kids money for grades and performance they should have to work it off by tutoring students younger than them. Just a thought!

By Subject2Change

May 5, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

I really think we’re missing the point if we only discuss how things SHOULD be. Kids should be self motivated and parents should do better at raising them. As far as discipline being implemented in the schools it’s difficult because parents do not want schools to discipline their kids. The question here is what is the alternative? Neccessity is the mother of invention. We can’t sit back and tell our parentless kids what they should be learning from their parents. My only suggestion is that instead of giving the kids money for grades and performance they should have to work it off by tutoring students younger than them. Just a thought!

By jim d

May 5, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

“Mediocrity supports the power structure, which, in turn, rewards it adequately.”

From an editorial:

The Cult of Mediocrity

Giovanni A. Fava

Department of Psychology, University of Bologna, Bologna, Italy; Department of Psychiatry, State University of New York at Buffalo, Buffalo, N.Y., USA Giovanni

By JustMe

May 5, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Guys, you miss the point I’m making here. I 100% agree that students should fail if they don’t learn. And, depriving them of that is ruining them. I agree.

However, schools are being beaten over and again by NCLB, by parents, by everyone. Whether you admit it or not, EVERYONE judges schools by their failure rates on high stakes testing. EVERYONE will deem a school ‘bad’ if only 15% of the students pass the CRCT. Just speak to a realtor about who asks what about schools when folks look to buy a house.

Therefore, schools come up with ways to ensure that the students don’t “fail.” The (most) parents sure as heck don’t instill the motivation for their kids to learn. So, the schools come up with seemingly crazy ways to motivate - and that includes money.

Do I agree with it? Heck no! Do I understand what’s going on? Yes.

If parents, the media, and NCLB won’t care as must about the failure rates of school, then things would change. But, that is an ideal world and it just won’t happen.

This is just another example of schools stepping in and trying to parent children because parents won’t.

By mom3boys

May 5, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

In a perfect world, every child is wanted, loved, and well-raised. Since that is not the reality, how do you help the ones who were not blessed with parents as wonderful as those who frequent this forum? How do you help kids whose parents are unable to teach them that hard work is a virtue and is its own reward? How do we fix what is already broken? We all know how it should be…but it’s not that way…how can it be fixed at this point?

By catlady

May 5, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Wherez Jeff?

By jim d

May 5, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

2nd honeymoon?

By jim d

May 5, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

JM,

I didn’t miss your point—I just thought you wanted to argue! :-)

By JustMe

May 5, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

jd -

So then, if you local PUBLIC school doesn’t make AYP due to low scores, you are saying that you WON’T scream about how public schools are failing and that we need vouchers and/or everyone should send their kids to private schools? If your answer to this is “yes” then it is really a 180 degree turn around for you - and I might be a little proud!

By Retroactive

May 5, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

I want my retroactive pay for all those hours I spent studying in grammar school, high school, college, and medical school. I figure they owe me about $18,153,875.95 - direct deposit is fine.

By jim d

May 5, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

JM,

Keyword—-scream

No but not to say I wouldn’t once again take an opportunity to advocate for choice.

By Noelle

May 5, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

Paying kids to study is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard — and that’s saying a lot, considering some of the wild things that have surfacedin recent years.

I have a much better idea. How about parenting classes for the failing kids’ parents? It would certainly do a lot more good in the long term. Someone else gets to figure out how to enforce it, although if we can afford to pay kids $8 a hour to study, I imagine we could afford to hire more child protective services caseworkers to oversee mandatory parenting classes.

By Cheryl McTasire

May 5, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

I have a great idea. Return to the gloriousness of the days of Sparta. Kid can’t keep up with the school system? Then they shouldn’t be in the school system. Get an unskilled job breaking rocks or carrying boxes. We’re paying them for failing, but it’s useful for society!

By old.dad

May 5, 2008 6:38 PM | Link to this

I learned early in my children’s education that money meant more to them than playtime. I rewarded good grades on report cards with an escalating payout system that not only earned them as much as $1,000 per high school semester, but saved me many more thousands in college tuition, a result of their high grade point averages and the scholarships offered them by their chosen universities.

$10/First A, $20/ second A, $40/ third A, $80/fourth A, etc. in the first semester. At the end of school year these rewards were multiplied by 10 to truly keep a student’s interest. $100, $200, $400, $800, etc but only for full year A’s.

Believe me, I considered I might go to the poor house as they reaped these rewards but when college tuition at prestigious private universities loomed on the horizon, I knew I’d hit a winning formula.

By Joe

May 5, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this

One of the worst ideas I have ever seen. Once again, the thugs get special treatment. Read the sentence, PAYING kids to STUDY. Unreal! You thug parents should not even have to do this. Gee why don’t they have a project like this in East Cobb, Alpharetta, Forsyth, etc? Because of mostly GOOD parenting. Plus, when the little thugs get their money, they will just spend it on guns or drugs.

By Julie

May 5, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

There are some teachers out there that do discriminate against students and treat them undeservedly disrespectfully. No child should have to put up with this and frequently school administrators and districts are lackadaisical about addressing this problem. I have seen parents try to get their issues addressed and the school systems act as a monopoly or as if they exist only to serve their interest. Education in Georgia strikes me as an industry only, not a means to educate our citizens.

By Paris

May 5, 2008 7:17 PM | Link to this

These kinds of programs are just ridiculous! It just continues to make students believe they deserve to be rewarded for anything they do. These students should study and become motivated to learn because it is something they are doing for themselves.

Students used to ask me if I was going to give them candy or some other treat if they performed well on tests. I always tell them I am giving them something…an education. I don’t give students “rewards” for doing what they should do in the first place! However, I do graciously give complements and encouragement.

By JustMe

May 5, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

Noelle I think that it is too late for those parents. I think that we should require a parenting class for current students to break this degenerative cycle. Something must be done….

By Lee

May 5, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this

Okay everybody, take a deep breath.

A private foundation wants to use its money to fund a pilot program to see if certain at risk students can be motivated to achieve their full potential. It’s going to take place at ONE high school and ONE middle school in Fayetteville.

The purpose is to try to break the cycle of underachievement in the hopes that if they show these kids that they can get good grades, maybe, just maybe, they will be motivated enough to do it on their own.

My guess: If they choose the right student they will probably get some good results. If they try to make a scholar out of someone with an IQ of 70, it will not matter how much money you throw at them.

My main concern - they cherry pick the students and get some good results and then try to make it a taxpayer funded program.

Now, regarding parents paying kids for good grades, I would say that is up to the parent. Companies pay employees bonuses for exemplary work and when the company does well. It is a staple of many compensation programs.

I’ve always given my children a monetary reward for excellent grades (A’s only) and it has worked well.

Justme, re “I think that we should require a parenting class for current students…” I’d be happy if the schools would just teach them the three R’s. Y’all might want to work on that first….

By catlady

May 5, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

jim d re your 3:15 post: have you seen the Monty Python skit about paying for an argument? One of the funniest lines: “Maybe I was arguing in my spare time.”

By Pastor Bubba T

May 5, 2008 10:30 PM | Link to this

Gunny, when to you work? What time do you have for any other activities but blogging? What you are stating (and I just scantily perused your many postings today) are definitely insightful — very MACEish. I just wonder when you have the time during the day to post these many blogs under your many, many “personalities.” I am going to retire for the evening and watch CNN/FOX. I am just a lowly pastor at a small Baptist Church in Jenkinsburg, Georgia. I am looking forward to the Democratic National Convention and my next trip to Miami. Topless beaches, baby! By the way, it’s not “curriculums”; it’s “curricula”. But, you probably pronounce “harass” as “hair iss” (like Ted Kennedy and Barack Obama) instead of “her -ss” like Jimmy Carter and Herman Talmadge. Heeda Beeda Hoo Hoo!

BLOGGING. Adiction, Baby! It is an addiction! Lester Maddox and Muhammed Ali. Tell me about this duo, OK?

By Piper Panache

May 5, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this

Not so much about speed and stuccato approach; use more panache and character development for your personalities. Your insights about public education (esp. in urban education settings) is very insightful. Thinking that your writings will be discovered 100 years later like Kierkegaard’s? Martin Luther >>> Soren Kierkegaard >>> Karl Barth. I like watching Homer Simpson, and I love my all my children! Tchau e boa sorte! Tudo bem! Eu tenho uma mulher linda e doce no Brasil.

By Beulah

May 5, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this

“This isn’t a conference, Henkel; I am actually in the room.” Ericka Davis. Rod Johnson. Eldrin Bell. Is this Trio proud of what they have done to Clayco? Judge Deborah Benefield, will you be unwittingly an ally to this despicable Trio? Rise up and do something which might become a footnote in Profiles in Courage. We know that the Fincher firm is a local firm. I have always thought that you rose up against “local juicism”.

By theodore

May 5, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this

“We stand at Amadeddon and do service for the Lord.” Theo. Roosevelt.

The Clayton County School Board is on the precipice (sp?) of Total Implosian. Thanks, Dorsey Hopson; you did a great job of totally destroying the Clayton County School Board. Say, I hear that your wife does not want to go to “Memphis.”

By Craig

May 6, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this

If the FCBOE program proposes to pay students for spending time in the vicinity of open books, I would oppose it. If, on the other hand, the program proposes to pay students who demonstrate through test performances, lab work products, etc. that they will have achieved relevant instructional objectives, then I would support it. My maternal grandmother, a widow on a very limited income, realized that she could use money to initiate in her hyperdistractable, unmotivated, yet mercenary third-grader-grandson an interest in learning. That was two diplomas and four degrees ago.

By kaa

May 6, 2008 1:55 AM | Link to this

IWA- I had a student whose parents did just that. She was flunking out and acting up. Her parents sent her to the Philipines to live with family. She came back the next year a new girl. Staight A’s and no problems.

By jim d

May 6, 2008 6:35 AM | Link to this

It never ceases to amuse me when people feel government could teach adults parenting, when it struggles to teach math, science and reading to our children!

Y’all crack me up!

By jim d

May 6, 2008 6:50 AM | Link to this

Yeah cat,

Are you familar with the book Learning Economics, a compiltation of essays that called “Arguing in My Spare Time,” from that same classic Monty Python routine?

Here’s a link to one of my favorites regarding education.

“Arguing in My Spare Time,” No. 3.22

By jim d

May 6, 2008 6:56 AM | Link to this

Cat another great MP line.

“Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.”

By JustMe

May 6, 2008 7:50 AM | Link to this

jd - Again with your circular (il)logic. You are blaming schools for “not being able to teach” yet you in this very blog state that the parents are to blame for students lacking the motivation to learn. Which is it, my dear jd?

While it may be partly both, how can schools teach to any student that has never been taught at home the skills we have been discussing here?

….and just when I thought we were making progress with you….

By jim d

May 6, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

Dearest JM,

And once again you failed to grasp the meaning of my words.

“when it struggles to teach “

Struggle [intransitive verb]

to proceed with difficulty or with great effort

I did not say what you thought I did; “not being able to teach”

There is a distinct difference in what I said and what you thought I said.

By DB

May 7, 2008 8:40 AM | Link to this

I have NEVER EVER NEVER paid my children for good grades. That’s their job — they have the intellectual capacity and the opportunity and I sacrifice enough to send them to a private school in order to provide what I feel is an optimal learning environment without throwing money at them, too. When one of them came running home one day announcing that “so-and-so’s parents paid them $100 for every A, and can they get that, too?”, I just laughed and said, “Not only ‘no’, but ‘hell, no’ — paying you for grades would be child abuse.” They didn’t understand then, but now, after seeing the way some of these kids with excessive bonuses turned out, I think they are starting to get it. (Granted, this is a long-term project … !)

Kids MUST learn to develop an internal sense of motivation in order to succeed at life. Yes, in the workplace, people receive bonuses for doing exceptional jobs (and, alas, some for just showing up), but unless you have a sense of discipline or the motivation to show up and do your best, regardless, then there are going to be precious few bonuses in your worklife.

Self-esteem comes from the satisfaction of successfully overcoming an obstacle, and gaining the confidence that future obstacles can also be overcome. The goal is to raise an inner-directed child who is confident of their ability to learn. A kid whose only motivation is outer-directed is a kid with NO motivation.

By trish

May 19, 2008 8:07 AM | Link to this

THIS SAY’S IT ALL. I AGREE. It also says nothing for the kids who try hard and get good grade’s. I have heard kids say I should get bad grards and then I can get something.

By lwa

May 5, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

I have an idea. Let’s have a school exchange program. Every child in America that does not want to learn (you can take entire schools, entire classrooms, etc) swap them with kids from foreign countries with kids who want to learn. After a month of no running water, 1 book per class, no air conditioning or no heat, walking several miles to the school house, etc, there won’t be any more problems with American kids in school.

Problem Solved.