Get Schooled

By Lisa B.

May 1, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this

We really need to take another look at Special Ed. NCLB has forced schools to work harder to increase academic achievement in Special Ed students. That is a good thing! However, as the Annual Measurable Objective increases every year to reach the government mandated 100% student pass rate, it is unfair that the burden of making AYP falls on the weakest students.

By V for Vendetta

May 1, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this

Also, it is a ridiculous notion to even THINK that some of the special ed kids who are expected to pass ever will. The same holds true for some ESOL students.

I’m not going to waste my time weighing in on this matter. Let’s just leave it at this—FNCLB.

By alskdjfalsdf

May 1, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this

Here’s a little fun fact: Teachers are not allowed to read the EOCT. Fine. HOWEVER, when one goes to the EOCTs that are out there for us to read and to give our students as practice, there are glaring errors. So we teach the curriculum, reach the standards and benchmarks, and our students take tests that are bogus…maybe. We don’t know for sure, as we are not allowed to read them. Go figure.

By alskdjfalsdf

May 1, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this

Here’s a little fun fact: Teachers are not allowed to read the EOCT. Fine. HOWEVER, when one goes to the EOCTs that are out there for us to read and to give our students as practice, there are glaring errors. So we teach the curriculum, reach the standards and benchmarks, and our students take tests that are bogus…maybe. We don’t know for sure, as we are not allowed to read them. Go figure.

By HS Teacher Too

May 1, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

It’s no secret that I think the EOCTs are a joke. They make a travesty of what should be a fair, reasonable, meaningful test. But to pass them is such a low cutoff, who really cares if they switch from CRCT to EOCT? If not enough kids pass, they will just adjust their ever-sliding, nebulous, super-secret scale to make it work.

Now, if the test scoring method was transparent — if they were graded out of 100 points, and a 65 or a 70 was the cutoff for passing; if students, parents, and teachers could know this information and understand what it takes to get such a score; and if the testing procedures were regular and enforced consistently across the state (heck, I’d settle for even across a SCHOOL, nevermind a school system!), then perhaps they would be a little bit more high-stakes, and perhaps I would question using them for NCLB.

Until then, I’m with V. “FNCLB” — well put!!

By HS Teacher Too

May 1, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

Laura,

I got sidetracked by the EOCT comments and didn’t answer your question. I am not sure what I could change in NCLB to make it work.

The example you gave is a perfect illustration of the counter-productivity of the law. It measures acceptable standards using standardized tests. This kind of measurement system encourages states to maintain low minimum passing scores, to ensure high passing rates. This is counter to the program’s stated goal of raising expectations! A state like Georgia, which (regardless of what one believes) is attempting to raise its own standards, is penalized when the natural consequence of that is that fewer students will pass.

The argument the USDoE makes is that the states should work harder: raise the standards and work to ensure that students can still meet them. (Which is no doubt why they denied Georgia’s request.) The flaw with this is that at some point, students can’t continue to meet the standards. We run into this all the time with SpEd students and ESOL students.

But take it a step further: the law wants every student to be “above average,” effectively — something with makes neither mathematical nor common sense.

So, we end up at the point that is so often made on this blog: not all students are, nor should they be, college material. NCLB wants us to think that all students are, and should be, college bound, and the reason that they are not is that the schools are failing them in some way. This is simply a fallacy. The nature of the world is that some children will always be left behind. Even a race of Olympic sprinters has someone finishing in last place! Whether you call it capitalism, or darwinism, or any other thing, it’s still the way the world works. To change it is really to strive for communism.

So, what would I do to fix NCLB? I’d get rid of it. It wastes money and forces states to make decisions in direct conflict with what makes educational sense.

By JustMe

May 1, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

Kathy Cox is a joke. She should be advocating for GA to ignor NCLB, period. We don’t need the small amount of money from the federal government that badly. We are jumping through hoops, spending tons of money, and destroying education by trying to follow NCLB.

By WFC

May 1, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

NCLB and EOCT’s are political ploys designed to delude some people into believing that schools can compensate for deficient parents. The basketball equivalent of NCLB would be to lower the height of the basket to 8’ so that everyone could dunk an aspire to play in the NBA. Good luck!

Georgia’s EOCT’s are breathtakingly easy and meaningless. Waste of time!

Is anyone silly enough to believe that the son of a sixteen year old unwed mother with no money can compete with the son of two parents with masters degrees and $100,000 in the bank earmarked for their son’s education? Good luck! NCLB my a$$.

I fully supportrd special ed during my 31 years as an educator, volunteering to team teach classes with special ed kids, many of whom were great kids and good students. But, I also recognized that the cost was exorbitant and often not rational.

Enough already! The testing mania is just that.

By Truth Filter

May 1, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

JustMe…

A billion dollars is a “small amount of money?”

By high school teacher

May 1, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

We just got our GHSGT scores. On the surface, they look great. Our science scores are off the charts, our English scores stayed the same, and both math and social studies increased by at least three percentage points. A closer look at our sub-groups, however, reveals that we might not make AYP because too many Black kids failed the tests, and too many economically disadvantaged kids failed the tests. I love this kicker: some kids count against us twice, or even three times. If you have a minority student who is on free and reduced lunch, and he fails one of the tests, then he is counted in both sub-groups.

Yes, NCLB needs to go away.

Another side note about graduation rate: IT’S A LIE!!! There is no tracking of students. The state looks at the number of freshmen who entered, and then looks at the number of seniors who graduate 4 years later. We had a student who was killed in a car accident this year; he will count against our graduation rate. THE SYSTEM IS BOGUS!

By JustMe

May 1, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

TruthFilter (or jd or whomever you are)….

Are you saying that the State of GA gets a billion dollars from the federal government? If so, I would like to know your source!

Also, what is important here is the percentage of the total education budget. What is the total percentage of federal dollars that trickle to schools? That is what is important.

By Lisa B.

May 1, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

High School teacher, if a student counts three times against your test scores, it seems only fair that he should count three times for your graduation rate :-)

By high school teacher

May 1, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

Lisa B. for State Superintendent. :)

By Erin

May 1, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

How to fix NCLB? Scrap the whole thing. ‘Nuff said.

By jim d

May 1, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

1: I am not truth filter.

2; a billion $ a year is a large chunk of change in some circles.

3: I have no idea how much Ga. gets each year from the fed. for education.

4: GCPS’s annual budget exceeds a Billion $

5: NCLB should be returened from whence it came—

6: Bend over Mr. Bush!!

By mystery poster

May 1, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, Green, it doesn’t matter. Whoever vows to repeal NCLB gets my vote!

By JustMe

May 1, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

jd - Sorry if you are not Truth Filter. And, your point is very valid. Even if GA gets a billion dollars from the Fed, that represents a very very small percentage of the overall education budget.

I would guess that GA spends more than a billion dollars doing crazy things to accommodate NCLB and try to make AYP (purchasing programs, testing, hiring specialist to help with NCLB, etc.).

So that begs the question - why is the State of GA worrying about NCLB? Isn’t it more wise to tell the Fed to keep their money?

Maybe we cannot sway DC, but couldn’t we possibly sway GA politicans? Just a thought….

By jim d

May 1, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

Actually JM, I’m not too sure how much the state spends. I do believe however, that it is but a drop in the bucket compared to what the local systems are spending.

Which brings us to the reason we can’t sway the state. Their political buddies in DC owing them a favor is worth a hundrefold more than having a BOE grateful to them. sorry to sound so cynical—-but it is what it is!

By Tony

May 1, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

NCLB is an extension of federal rule over the states of an unconstitutional nature. There is no authority given to the federal government by the United States Constitution by which it can force states to comply with its rules and regulations for education. Unfortunately, jim d hit the nail on the head with his sentence, “Their political buddies in DC owing them a favor is worth a hundrefold more than having a BOE grateful to them.” Politics is at the heart of NCLB and in this case one of jim d’s frequent assertions is fully connected: school choice (vouchers). Even that is disingenious, because the elite still does not want the regular public to mingle with them and have all the same educational opportunities. The real motive is to put government money in private hands - not yours - but big business.

If people fully understood all the connections between the doom and gloom reports (A Nation at Risk) and big money, there would be a complete backlash to the federal intrusion into the states’ matters of education. The panels that make up these reports are hand picked because of personal agendas that align with the political powers. Then we pass sweeping legislation based on these reports that ignore vast quantities of research and cherry-pick the little tid-bits that “support” the claims included in the report.

As for NCLB, there are so many flaws it is unsalvageable and should be scrapped. Personally, I agree with JM (today, at least) that the money that comes from the feds is not worth the harm that it causes. There are so many strings attached and the administrative costs alone absorb the first 10% of the funds. Then there are the measures we must implement to comply with the law. These costs are difficult to fully calculate, but I guess they far exceed the amount we get from the feds.

But, the politicians in GA have lined up at the trough because of the political favors owed and earned in the process. Good little politicians don’t question the details of the law, they just echo the party line - it’s not perfect but it is better than what we had. Well the truth is that it is not better than what we had.

Finally, when the year 2013 rolls around and all our children are NOT on or above grade level, (sarcasm alert) I guess there will then be sufficient evidence that public education is a complete and total failure just like some people already claim.

By Truth Filter

May 1, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

I can confirm, Jim D is not Truth Filter.

You can confirm the $1 billion amount here. Click “Revenue.” That’s a little more than 7 percent of all education revenue in Georgia. No, it’s not a huge amount, but it’s a lot of money to just say “forget it” to. And much of it goes toward programs like school lunches, special education programs on other “non-testing” things. So, Georgia taxpayers would have to make up the difference.

It’s just not feasible that a state like Georgia with such a huge poor population is going to say “no thanks” to the Federal money. Sounds like a good idea in “JustMe”land, but unfortunately, most of us has to live in the real world. How about coming up with a “real world” idea.

By Tony

May 1, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this

Truth Filter - The school lunch program is deeply rooted in farm subsidies. This is another government program that has turned into free money hand outs to big agribusinesses. You would think that with our money for school lunches we would be encouraged to purchase foods locally and thus contribute to the local economy. Well, guess what! Local food vendors lose on this one. This program is operated under the authority of USDA and is not part of the Department of Education.

Another way federal money causes states to have to spend more is through its application of special education rules. Here, we are forced to provide costly services for children including medical and other non-instructional services. The feds only pay about 30% of the cost of these services, yet they require us to provide them.

Regarding Title I and the poor. Georgia is getting ripped off here, too. There are several states wealthier than Georgia who recieve higher per pupil allotments than we do. In these cases, they have devised an “equity” formula that allows these wealthy states to collect higher amounts than those states with much higher rates of poverty. Does it cost Georgians more to participate? I think it does.

Please don’t think I am suggesting that students with special needs should not recieve services. However, it is important to understand that many of these services are not academic in nature and could be provided in homes through other agencies.

By Tony

May 1, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Since we are talking about NCLB, let’s look at one of the showpieces that came along with the legislation: Reading First. Her is a recently released report that summarizes the lack of impact Reading First has had on students’ reading. Report. Here is an article about the report.

By lovemy4kids

May 2, 2008 1:36 AM | Link to this

Take a walk down Memory Lane: http://eiu.edu/~cfrnb/goals200.html

In 1989 there was an historic meeting between George Bush 1 and the Nation’s Governors at the first- ever “Education Summit.” It was organized and presided over by none other than Arkansas governor, Bill Clinton. From it, Bush emerged with the plan for “America 2000”. When Clinton challenged Bush for the next presidential term, he vowed not to change Bush’s education program, but to add to it (make it worse) and renamed it “Goals 2000”. G.W. Bush did the same thing to Goals 2000 and renamed the more extreme version “No Child Left Behind”. Sounds like a conspiracy theory? Read the linked documents and comments and “you decide.”
Question: Have any of the 3 candidates said what they would do with Bush’s NCLB? They have been very quiet on this topic. Hmmmm…

By jim d

May 2, 2008 8:12 AM | Link to this

hey love,

I’d say they may have missed the mark a wee bit with #7.

By Theresa

May 2, 2008 8:12 AM | Link to this

hey Get Schooled readers — This is Theresa Giarrusso writing from the MOMania blog —- We have a question from a reader that I think you guys can help with —- We need to know what are the best public schools or school district for children with Autism. If you have any experience wtih this please pop in on the MOMania blog and tell us what you know. This parent needs our help as he’s moving here very soon and needs to know where to settle to best help his child.

http://www.ajc.com/health/content/shared-blogs/ajc/parenting/

By Mark

May 2, 2008 8:29 AM | Link to this

I really have to question the sanity and education of the people who wrote NCLB.

Do they REALLY think that every child with a disability will be at grade level by 2014?

We are testing children who can’t read, can’t write and can’t speak. Their IQ’s are in the 50’s. C’mon, NCLB is asking educators to fix syndromes and deficiencies in 14 years that medical science hasn’t been able to do in over 200 years.

What on earth were they thinking?