Get Schooled

By HS Teacher Too

April 17, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

I am not convinced that WHEN students are tested has a significant effect, but I have not seen any data to make this judgment. However, I do believe wholeheartedly that the state ought to set the dates. This is especially true with the EOCTs, which are little more than a joke with almost no test security. When I last taught in a Gwinnett County public school, students were able to finish their test THE NEXT DAY! It was ridiculous to think that the tests were in any way meaningful. What’s more, students at one Gwinnett school took the tests on different days than students at another Gwinnett school — and they took the SAME TESTS! I realize that this is not as much of an issue for the CRCT, but it is still an issue.

If Georgia wants to stand behind the validity of its school testing, it needs to be able to demonstrate that the tests are secure. To my mind, one significant step towards that end is to offer the test(s) on the same day(s) state-wide.

By jim d

April 17, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this

To tell the truth I’m not even certain why we continue to spend money on a bogus testing system that will do nothing but show improvement regardless of if learning has improved.

It really matters not when it is administered. It is merely a publicity gimic to assure the public that government schools are the best thing going. Which is actually a pretty far stretch. But hey, as long as the public buys in—Why not?

By Tater

April 17, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

jim d

Not to get off track…but… very funny postings at the end of the day yesterday… Still LMAO

By Tater

April 17, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

jim d

Not to get off track…but… very funny postings at the end of the day yesterday… Still LMAO

By Gwinnett Educator

April 17, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

My school has 3-5 testing this week (started this past Tues). My grade level will test next week (Wed-Fri).

It is driving me INSANE for we have to be extra extra EXTRA quiet due to testing on our hallway. I know the Kindergarten teachers are about to pull their hair out due to the YOU MUST BE QUIET mode.

In my yrs in Dekalb County, my school would test on Tues, Wed, Thurs because we were worried about attendance. (students were more likely to miss school on Mondays and Fridays).

I wouldnt mind everyone having the same test dates, etc. This is running me ragged and I havent even given the tests to my students yet.

*OFF TOPIC* But I want to light a candle in memory of a WONDERFUL, BEAUTIFUL educator that Dekalb County lost this week. Ms. Shermanita Benson, Asst Principal of discipline at Druid Hills High School. Her life ended this week at the age of 36 due to a battle with breast cancer. I had the pleasure of working with her at the beginning of my career in Dekalb County. She will truly be missed by MANY!

By high school teacher

April 17, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

We are only talking about a difference of one week. I don’t think that really puts anyone at a disadvantage. We are testing this week, but our spring break was a week earlier than Cobb, Clayton, et al as well.
Gwinnett, my son’s school is following the Tue-Thurs model as well, which I think is a wise decision. The 3-5 will also test on Monday and Tuesday of next week. No one is testing tomorrow - it gives all the kids a break. My son’s teacher has planned a movie and pizza party tomorrow.

By Future Counselor

April 17, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

So can we all agree that the standardized system in GA is bogus? The CRCT is bogus, so are the EOCTs and GHSGT.

If there’s anyone on the board that teaches elementary, please tell me when the kids are supposed to start learning fractions, multiplication, and division? I work for an after-school program, and it makes me want to scream every time a 4th or 5th grader cannot understand the concept of fractions. Or even better, I could ask them for the product of, say, 6 times 9 and need to COUNT ON THEIR FINGERS to get to the answer.

If the kids are being taught those concept starting in 3rd grade, there is no way in hell that any of standardized test in GA could count for beans.

By Future Counselor

April 17, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

So can we all agree that the standardized system in GA is bogus? The CRCT is bogus, so are the EOCTs and GHSGT.

If there’s anyone on the board that teaches elementary, please tell me when the kids are supposed to start learning fractions, multiplication, and division? I work for an after-school program, and it makes me want to scream every time a 4th or 5th grader cannot understand the concept of fractions. Or even better, I could ask them for the product of, say, 6 times 9 and need to COUNT ON THEIR FINGERS to get to the answer.

If the kids are not being taught those concept starting in 3rd grade, there is no way in hell that any of standardized test in GA could count for beans.

By Future Counselor

April 17, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

So can we all agree that the standardized system in GA is bogus? The CRCT is bogus, so are the EOCTs and GHSGT.

If there’s anyone on the board that teaches elementary, please tell me when the kids are supposed to start learning fractions, multiplication, and division? I work for an after-school program, and it makes me want to scream every time a 4th or 5th grader cannot understand the concept of fractions. Or even better, I could ask them for the product of, say, 6 times 9 and need to COUNT ON THEIR FINGERS to get to the answer.

If the kids are not being taught those concept starting in 3rd grade, there is no way in hell that any of standardized test in GA could count for beans.

By catlady

April 17, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

Future: fractions start getting hit hard in fourth grade.

In our school our fourth and fifth graders (not mentally retarded) cannot subtact 2 from nine! We are told to “expose” them to math concepts. Nothing taught to master. So now with the crct we will reap what we have sown. You can’t do division without being able to subtract accurately!

By Kage

April 17, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

I think having the dates standardized would make sense. We are finished with the CRCT (woo-hoo!), including the make-up tests. We started April 8th. I don’t know how much difference another two weeks would make in terms of scores. I’ve always wondered about the security aspect, though.

By msbssy

April 17, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

catlady, quick question regarding mastery of math. my daughter is learning concepts such as any even # plus 2 equals the next even number. Is that a good way for them to learn. Or the doubles+ 1 rule,(5+6= 5+5=1) she’s in K5

By Kage

April 17, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

Not Catlady, but I am an elementary math teacher. Using doubles plus one, minus one, etc. is a good strategy. It should be one of many tools in the box, so to speak, that leads to quick recall of facts. I hate it when a strategy is taught as something that all children need to master. They all need to master the facts, and for some learning doubles plus one will be the route to that mastery. Everyone should not have to think about it in that same way though.

By high school teacher

April 17, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

OFF topic: we just got an email from the county - no more field trips will be approved this year due to rising costs of transportation. ARGH!

By msbssy

April 17, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

thanks Kage, she’s caught on pretty quickly with the math at the new school where these concepts are being taught, in the first semester she was having to use her fingers. they are also learning the basic fractions, 1/2, 1/4, 1/3 and how to divide up items evenly. Hopefully, by the time she is starting public school, she’ll be ahead of the curve in math. They also do a lot of word problems

By JustMe

April 17, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

While I dislike testing as much as anyone, the question arises….

How do you assess that the students have really learned what they were supposed to learn during a given amount of time?

I think we can all agree that a HS diploma should mean something other than attendence, right? And, we really shouldn’t wait until the end of 12 years to do the first test, right?

Keep in mind that this assessment must be fair for all students in the State of GA. In other words, one school system cannot do it differently from another school system.

Also, it must be impartial. A right answer is a right answer while a wrong answer is a wrong answer - no middle ground.

Until someone can come up with a better idea, I fear that we are stuck with this testing mess.

By Stacey

April 17, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

Future Counselor…I’m not a teacher but my first grader is already learning simple fractions (1/2, 1/3, 1/4) as a part of CRCT prep. The questions are such as “If a pizza is cut in four slices, what fraction describes 1 slice?” Since he’s in the gifted program, he already had a basic understanding of fractions. Although it’s been a long time, I don’t think we were taught fractions until 3rd or 4th grades. For some reason I remember very distinctly that we started learning our times table 2nd semester of 2nd grade. I recall being so proud of having a little pocket table through 12’s that I would always carry it with me and study it every free moment I got.

BTW, the elementary schools in my county take the CRCT next week. First & Second graders test 8-11, M-W and Third-Fifth graders test M-Th.

By Lee

April 17, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

Before everyone gets their panties in a wad about all these mind-numbing tests, let us remember the reason for them…

Schools were graduating barely funtional illiterates who were reading and doing math at an elementary grade level.

Bottom line, society could not rely on the high school diploma as proof that the graduate could perform at a certain level.

In the ultimate act of irony though, we allow the same system that was graduating illiterates to administer the testing.

Doh!! As Homer Simpson would say.

By Martina

April 17, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

Saying that passing these tests guarantees you are literate is a joke! I had an EIP meeting this week for a Down’s Syndrome child who basically guessed A,B,C,D on last year’s CRCT (B was his favorite to say) and his reading score was 797 - only 3 points lower than the needed 800 passing score! If you want the test to be a valid indicator of student achievement, the state needs to raise the cut score.

By Future Counselor

April 17, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

Stacey, that’s awesome! That’s the way I started learning fraction and that was in first grade as well. The point to my rant was is that how can WHEN they take the test matter when the real problem is do they know what is on the test. I think that if the kids know the material, should it matter if the test is one or two weeks after spring break? (However, I do think there should be set days for EVERYONE to take the tests.)

In high school, I remember walking into classrooms where the teacher was literally reading answers off of tests for previous years! If that’s what it takes for students to pass, then everyone in educational field (and unfortunately, politicians) needs to take a long, hard look to find solutions instead of creating a generation of idiots.

By Future Counselor

April 17, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

:O Excuse my terrible, typing grammar!

By catlady

April 17, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this

Martina, not trying to top you but I had a student a few years ago who had only been in country for 7 months, spoke/understood/read very little English and almost passed the 4th grade CRCt. She did try very hard to match the words in the questions to something in the reading passage.

Lee, I think students are still being graduated who are barely literate—look at how many HOPE “scholars” have to go into remedial work in college! What I have discovered is that almost EVERYONE thinks their child should be the exception to the testing requirements process. (and the exception to the behavior standards—if any are enforced by the school—and the exception to the attendance standards….) Let’s face it—we have a lot of “exceptional” students! :P

By OldSchool

April 18, 2008 6:14 AM | Link to this

I can remember proctoring one of the big tests and having to watch a student pull out a coloring book and proceed to “stay in the lines.” I was allowed by the overseeing teacher to take it from the student who then put her head down and went to sleep. She had completed the part with her name and other information and then randomly “Christmas treed” the test.

This 6th year senior (go figure) is now out of school and churning out babies.

I read a wonderful op-ed article years ago about bringing back the “F” word to our schools. Instead of assuring every student of success or giving them a 68 or so that they could bring up to passing instead of the 5 they earned, let them fail if that’s what they are doing. Personal accountability for students is sorely lacking from elementary to university level.

And the workplace is suffering because of it.

By JustMe

April 18, 2008 7:44 AM | Link to this

NEW TOPIC

Just heard the the BOE of DeKalb County is voting this week on the following…. While the State of GA voted to increase pay by 2 1/2 %, The BOE is voting to decrease the school system contribution by an equivalent amount!

This is robbery by the school system! They are taking State money intended for teachers and essentially pocketing it!

However, teachers in this State do not have a real teachers union (are you listening, AJC?). Otherwise, our union would be able to fight this type of abuse.

Once DeKalb Co. does this, it is only a matter of time before all school systems do this.

I gotta leave GA asap.

By jim d

April 18, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

Hmm, Seems it may be a world epidemic.

By catlady

April 18, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

JM, I think my county considered it also,because they have “reassured us” that we get both the state increase and a local increase in percentage as well! If only they understood we would give up the raise if they would do something substantive about discipline and accountability for students!

By Joyce Watts

April 24, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this

I have a daughter in the school system, in Georgia, and she was attacked verbally by a parent in her classroom. When she called me to tell me my first thoughts were how did this happen? I hoped to that they were not alone, because my daughter is small in stature, but more importantly she is a female who would have certainly been at a disadvantage had this male (parent) even though his spouse was present was able to have the upperhand against her. There has to be something put in place when a parent or parent’s come to the school to talk with their child/children teacher. It matters not if the conference was scheduled or just an impromptu dialogue, it makes a very scary situation for our teachers. I am fortunate in that my daughter is a long way from home, but we do talk about her daily plight the good and the not so good. I am not an administrator I am her mom. I must say that their should be some structure of protection for the teachers. I am strongly in favor of no teacher male or female meeting with a parent(s) without the Principal or his/her assistant being present. The comments mentioned above in one article is true that these incidents escalate so fast that often it is impossible for someone to get to that teacher,or in her/his classroom before she or he is in “harms Way” It happens usually so easily, because when the parent(s) arrive they are already in an ANGER mode. I certainly would not like to see my daughter or any other teacher become a victim to an angry and not listening parent in the school where they might be teaching. Some form of dialogue should be put in place and always have a mediator in line to assist them. It is vitally important and you could save someone or more (people) from being seriously hurt. Joyce T. Watts Pensacola, FL