Get Schooled

By momtoAlex&Max

April 11, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

You;ve hit a sore spot for me. I really, really, really hate that this program is being sold as available for all, when in reality my guess is that 1% of children actually get in. In my old Dekalb co. elementary school (a VERY good one), they have room for 20 pre-kers. That’s 20!!! To put things in perspective, the kindergarden class had 160 students in it. That’s 1% of children being able to get in the free pre-k! It royally p** me off. If it is available in public schools, it should be available for all children in the district.

By Inman Park

April 11, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this

It’s not even funny, how unfair this is .I assume we’re going to be talking a lot about Lin, here.

I have a neighbor who inherited his house, and who doesn’t have a mortgage. He’s always talking about how fun this 4-5 day campout is going to be. Of course it will be, for him! It will give him something to do!

But what about parents who have a mortgage - who will get fired if they take off 5 or more days of work? What about single parents trying to make ends meet? Oh - what about DISABLED parents?

When we got this new principal, I thought he would fight extremely hard against this. I’ve heard he doesn’t want it, but it’s not up to him - well, he could fight harder! In the end, it’s all up to Janice Royals. Anyone who has a comment about the utter unfairness of this campout is always directed to contact her (404-802-3638). Well, I did, and got screamed at in Ebonics. My husband asked me if I really wanted my sons learning under her, and the answer was, NO, NO, NOOO! So, we took the boys to private school, and that’s where they stayed.

People talk about this all the time. It’s great for a stay-at-home-mom, and great for a couple w/ hundreds to throw at a sitter (yes, they let a sitter apply!).

Janice Reynolds told me her name’s not on it - it’s not her idea - so APS isn’t officially the sponsor. “You all do this yourselves!!!,” she screamed. But APS allows it, provides land on which the parents camp at times…The last principal even came and opened up the building, so people could use the bathroom and get drinks. That’s not connecting APS to the event???? Please!

Bottom line, and I’ve heard others speak of this — it is even illegal on top of unfair. Of course, urban camping is not allowed. But add to it that disabled parents are COMPLETELY LEFT OUT OF THE REGISTRATION PROCESS — this is just saddening. I agree with many others here - what ever happened w/ the Federal Equal Access Act? All parents being allowed equal access to their child’s school? Well, this COULD be their child’s school - if they were allowed in the registration process. But, they’re not. How can this be fair???

By Morrigan

April 11, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

It is available to all. That’s not the same as guaranteed spots for all.

Equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome.

By Todd

April 11, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

“I don’t know of many low-income parents who can afford to take four days off from work to stand in a line to get their kid into a good program.” Hmmm … you don’t know the same EBT-receiving, car-sitting trash I know.

Sorry, everything is not fair in life. When the poor go buy some more lotto tickets to make up for their welfare draining lives, maybe more seats in class will open—all so they can then be among the 50% drop-out rate later in school.

By Inman Park

April 11, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

Morrigan,

Equal opportunity? A lottery - yes. A campout - no. A 5-day campout? Could you please explain to us how a 5-day campout is AVAILABLE (that’s the word you used) to disabled parents???

By Lee

April 11, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

Once again, AJC asks the wrong question.

The question that needs to be asked is: “Last year, the State of Georgia spent more than $300 MILLION to fund a program whose results are indeterminate. Is this a wise expenditure of funds?”

Oh, and here’s another question: “If you can’t afford to take a day off from work to stand in line to sign your kid up for this program, what the Hell are you doing having kids in the first place?”

By One day?

April 11, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

Lee,

Who ever said anything about taking A (A means ONE) day off of school?

Laura is talking about the parents who have to take an ENTIRE WORK WEEK off to camp.

If you’re upset w/ the AJC for asking the ‘wrong question,’ the journalist is probably upset w/ you not being able to read the article.

By high school teacher

April 11, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

We have a lottery in our county. It’s the most equitable option, IMO. Oh, and in our county, teachers get no preference. I had no more chance of getting my son in Pre-K than anyone else did.

Also, I really hate that having a successful kindergarten year is dependent on being in Pre-K. For those who don’t get some sort of pre-schooling at age 4, they are already behind when they start kindergartehn.

By Nancy

April 11, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

Why camp out? If you can afford pre-K then pay for it. The public pre-k is inferior to what you can get privately. Save the slots for the children who wouldn’t go to prek otherwise. My children go to public school, but they attended private preK.

By high school teacher

April 11, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

Nancy, the opposite is true where I live. Children who come from private programs typically score lower on the kindergarten entrance test than the students who were in public pre-k.

By Lee

April 11, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

Ok OneDay, you didn’t like my last question. How about this one:

“The administration at your local school cannot devise a simple, yet equitable, way to allocate a scarce number of PK slots to the public. Do you really want to entrust your child to these bumbling idiots?”

By momtoAlex&Max

April 11, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

I’d like to add that in the two districts I have experience in (Dekalb Co and Cobb Co), at least the 2 elementary schools that I am familiar with, it works with a lottery, not a first come, fist serve.

And as much as it annoyed me that they have such few spots, my oldest went to private pre-K and he was head and shoulders above his peers in kindergarten once he started public school (these were his teacher’s words not mine).

So I guess in the end, you do get what you pay for, but it bothers me that this pre-K program is being sold as available to all. It is NOT. It is only available for about 1% of eligible kids.

I know the lottery has done wonders for the HOPE scholarship (although that is ALSO up to debate considering how many don’t keep it past the 1st semester in college), but, in my opinion, it is false advertising.

By catlady

April 11, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

mom: 20 of 160 is a lot more than 1%. Not saying it is right, just that your math is faulty.

In Alabama (years ago) they decided who got the spots by how poorly they kids did on an entrance test. Of course, the brighter kids were “coached” to fail it so they would get free care…Plus, at the end of the year the “growth” seemed so much higher.

Personally, I am not impressed with the statwide pre k program, but for many it is better than nothing.

By Janice

April 11, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

OH! MY! GAWD! This is the craziest system, evah! If I wasn’t lucky enough to be a stay-at-home mom b/c my wonderful husband, Chandler, has a fantastic job in the city, I could nevah find the time to enroll my precious little twins, Noel and Leon in pre-K! I really need to get them in so I can have some free time and get my sanity back. Wish me luck!

By momtoAlex&Max

April 11, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

My bad catlady. That amounts to 12.5%. Still pretty abysmal(sp?) if you ask me.

All I am saying is that they should not be advertising the program as available to all, when it is not.

By jim d

April 11, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

I got a better question.

Why the hell would anyone turn their precious 4 year old over to the state? Are y’all friggin nuts?

By cdc

April 11, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

What needs to change apparently is the system of deciding. I’ve never heard of parents camping out! In the Oglethorpe County school system parents have a couple of weeks window to come in and put their child’s name on a list. And then names are picked randomly until the classes are full. I know this is done in other counties as well….

By cdc

April 11, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

“The public pre-k is inferior to what you can get privately” — untrue! (at least in many places) So many daycares offer “pre-k” that is basically daycare with more educational songs. In a state funded pre-k (especially one offered within an elementary school) Pre-K teachers can work closely with Kindergarten teachers to be pre-teaching K standards to students! Not to mention that instead of being the big kids at daycare, the Pre-Ks can learn the layout of their school and see how the “big kids” go to school. This social experience alone, in my opinion, is far from inferior!

Of course, this all comes down to how much attention a parent pays to their own local school system, and how important a good education is to their children.

What needs to change apparently is the system of deciding. I’ve never heard of parents camping out! In the many systems parents have a couple of weeks window to come in and put their child’s name on a list. And then names are picked randomly until the classes are full.

By linda

April 11, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

momtoalexandmax: We don’t have room in school building now for all the classrooms needed for K-5. How in the world can you justify PRE-K for all kids??? You sound horribly selfish and out of touch with reality. I don’t understand why anyone thinks it is a good idea to add to a system that is already failing so many. Let’s get our act together for K-12 first. I also really don’t understand why 4 year olds need to be in a formal school setting anyway. momtoalexand max: Why won’t you let your children enjoy their childhoods??? There are many countries where there is not even kindergarten and yet they produce some of the most educated citizens in the world. You should value childhood! Stop the free daycare madness or we will all pay in the end.

By Jeff in Roswell

April 11, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

In Fulton it’s a lottery and it’s fine by me. My son did get a spot but, if he didn’t it wouldn’t be the end of the world. We would just send him somewhere else or keep him home. The blanket statement that “private is better than public” is just not true. Every school has it’s pros and cons. You have to research on your own what you think is best for your child and your situation. At any rate, everyone has choices and that’s what’s important.

By luvs2teach

April 11, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

As far as the comment “private is better than public” well…that’s simply not always true. Way back when my kids were little, and I was in college, I did a volunteer outreach kind of thing where science students from my college went to pre-ks and did science stuff with the kids.

Let me tell you…some of what I saw was frightening! Children running around barefoot with other children with clearly loaded (and dripping - YUCK) diapers running about, too. Gross. This was a PRIVATE facility, however not a “name” chain. Our running joke was that if the name had a reference to rainbows, stars, or bears, to run, run away as fast as you could!

Having a named chain, though wasn’t a guarantee, either, though - big difference in quality from one location to another.

My recommendation would be to visit - more than once - at different times of days. Also, inquire about the longevity of the staff as well as their educational level - lots of schools have a director with a BS or MS, but that staff doesn’t have college degrees - and the formal pre-k teacher may not be with them the entire day. What type of company training do they provide - generally, centers that provided staff training were run better than those that didn’t. Finally, find out about their curriculum and outside resources - visiting programs and field trips, etc.

By Lee

April 11, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

“I also really don’t understand why 4 year olds need to be in a formal school setting anyway”

Good question Linda. Especially in light of the fact that for years and years, FIRST grade was the student’s formal entry into school. A system, by the way, that put a man on the moon using little more than sliderules and “supercomputers” equavalent to today’s handheld calculators.

After all, I didn’t go to Kindergarten and look how I turned out.

… uhhh, forget that last sentence.

By j

April 11, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

I was a prek teacher, and it’s not just daycare with educational songs. I worked very hard to make my own lesson plans every day, bought many supplies on my own, brought in extra library books weekly to match the topic I was teaching, and basically went the extra mile everyday. I taught 2 lessons a day in a large group setting, along with many small group activities that I created and implemented. I had to keep records on each child and informally assess each one on their letters and numbers, document all that, and keep a portfolio for the year for evidence of progress. Detailed anecdotal notes for each child must be recorded continuously year round, and the core school subjects are introduced also with an overall assessment given for that too on a state mandated progress report that is shared with parents. So it’s not just “playtime” but “play” with a purpose. Just had to put in my two cents when someone complained that it’s just daycare.

By decaturparent

April 11, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

Hmmm… yep, that camp out thing is unfair. Decatur has a lottery so everyone has a whole week to apply and there is no camping out. Decatur residents get first dibs..

By high school teacher

April 11, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

Lee, Linda, et al: school ain’t what it used to be! My first grader is learning fractions, double digit addition, and money counting. A review question for the first grade CRCT: Which of the following amounts CANNOT be made from four coins? The answer choices: .22, .38, .61, and .85. I consider that a high level thinking question and would not expect a first grader to know that answer.

Kindergarten is what first grade used to be. Pre-K is essential for students’readiness for kindergarten.

By momtoAlex&Max

April 11, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

Hey Linda: I am not saying at all that I want pre-K for all kids. All I am saying is that there should not be advertising for free pre-K for all when the reality is that there isn’t. In my opinion, if the public school cannot (for whatever reason) provide a pre-K class for all the kids in the district, then there shouldn’t be a pre-k class at all. So there, call me socialist all you want.

Second of all, have you SEEN what is required of kindergarten kids today? For right or wrong, it is a LOT. If they have not had a pre-K, they are behind their peers. That is a fact. Not saying it’s right (not saying it’s wrong either), but that’s the way it is. I believe you are the one out of touch with reality.

And heck yeah. When it comes to my children, I am horribly selfish. I want the best for them at whatever cost. Flame me all you want.

By high school teacher

April 11, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

There are also day care centers that offer free Pre-K. They are usually not all day classes, and that’s where tuition comes in. Private centers cannot charge for pre-k if they get funding from the state. In this case, most centers have pre-k from 8-11:30, and if your child stays after that, you pay for that time. Other places (mainly church-sponsored pre-schools) offer pre-k but don’t receive state funds, so they can charge tuition.

By MamaS

April 11, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

The sad thing is that children must be educated to a certain level BEFORE they enter kindergarten, or they will be behind. Have any of you SEEN the kindergarten entrance exam? What is your full name? Your birthdate? Your address? Your phone number? Count from 1 to 50 without missing a number. Say the ABC’s without missing or slurring a letter. Know the difference between in and out, on and off, on top and beneath, over and under. Identify the nine basic colors. Using a pencil, write your name. ETC. ETC. Children who cannot do this are in need of remediation when they ENTER kindergarten. Our county uses a lottery. When my son did not get in, I borrowed money from the bank to pay tuition for a private school pre-K. He is a smart kid and I don’t want him failing because we were unlucky. Apparently preschool loans are very common — the bank already had all the information on the private schools and just filled in the forms while I was there.

By FarLeftLoons

April 11, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

There’s no camp out people. My child’s school did a lottery and our 4yo made it. It’s not that big of a deal. However, if you want more funding, let’s cut back on welfare and affirmative action programs and put them into pre-K. Don’t want to? Tough then.

By Gwinnett Mom

April 11, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Gwinnett County doesn’t have room for PreK in the public school system, so all classes are through day care and they are full days (8:30-3:00). It was EASY to sign up for my son for this year and my daughter for next year. My family loves the teachers and programs! I don’t expect my child to be enrolled in some higher education class. He is learning and having a wonderful time. He is excited to start kindergarten in the fall. Gwinnett seems to be doing it right.

Not all parents want their child to go all day or to go at all. It is not mandatory and it shouldn’t be. I view the program as giving my kids a step toward preparing for kindergaten.

By thomas

April 11, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

I don’t understand the waiting in line for a Pre-K spot. This must be only for one of the few select “good” schools. I mean at Pre-K spot at one of the public schools made up of a mostly white, middle-upper middle class population. Like Smith or Jackson Elementary in APS. When a previous poster mentioned APS, I assumed that this is what she must be talking about.

There are plenty on good free pre-Ks out there. There are however only a few elitist schools. I guess those people must be too good to associate with the “unwashed masses.” If that’s the case, I can see the rationale for camping out for two days to get one of twenty slots at Sarah Smith.

Be happy there is any pre-K at all in APS. Last year Cobb County, shut down ALL pre-K in their school system, except for special needs. They realized that since most of the pre-K spots were in the lower socioeconomic areas of South Cobb, it would be alright to close them down. Hundreds of kids were thrown out into the street. Yet they wouldn’t have DARED have even to even THINK about eliminating Pre-K if the majority of those students served came from East and West Cobb (upper middle class whites).

And they say every thing is equal.

By One Day?

April 11, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

Lee, Again,

The administration at your local school cannot devise a simple, yet equitable, way to allocate a scarce number of PK slots to the public. Do you really want to entrust your child to these bumbling idiots?”

I never said I lived there!! I was helping you read! Where in the world did you get that idea?

FarLeftLoons,

I agree w/ you, but you can’t come on the board and say there is no such thing as a campout — it is at Mary Lin. That’s what people are talking about.

By jim d

April 11, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

There is a great deal that states could do to improve the quality of the education that school age children receive. Providing more options to parents though school choice would be one example. Allowing parents to choose equally among available K-12 public and private schools would go along way to improving educational quality. The way to fix education is to address the issue where the problem is—in elementary and secondary schools. Funding preschool programs will not cure the erosion of educational performance that students experience later in America’s public schools.

By A Private Daycare is not a Private School

April 11, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Some of you keep saying a private Pre-K is better than a public Pre-K (and you are CORRECT!). But you’re being misunderstood by readers who think that a private daycare offering a “pre-k” is what you’re talking about.

We’re talking about actual SCHOOLS! Like, a Catholic school that has a pre-k in it.

NOT the side-of-the-road daycares w/ the copyright-infringed cutouts of Dora and Big Bird and all that also offer a paid pre-k.

When people say a private Pre-K, they’re talking about a Catholic School or a school such as Mount Vernon that has a pre-k in it w/ an actual academic curriculum outline. THAT is a private Pre-K! So, DON’T consider a DAYCARE pre-k a PRIVATE pre-k! 2 different things!!!!!

So, we have 3 different types of pre-k:

1) Daycare “pre-k” that is paid, mostly play all day 2) Public 3) Private in an actual SCHOOL

By I still love the A-T-L

April 11, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

Give me a break people, if any of you think this process is fair or equal think again. First of all it’s the “laze at home moms” who get 1st dibs because they need time for themselves to save their sanity.They send their nannies to register for them. Next, it’s the old families from the neighborhood. You know those PTA moms serving since 1980. Then it’s the folks with the “proper family names”. Get the picture? Names are picked by hummans and it’s those same people that decide if a child gets in or not. So, to break it down if Quanisha Smith applies, guess where her application goes? Stop being so ignorant and give the government the easy way out. All 4yr olds should be educated for free!

By I still love the A-T-L

April 11, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

Give me a break people, if any of you think this process is fair or equal think again. First of all it’s the “laze at home moms” who get 1st dibs because they need time for themselves to save their sanity.They send their nannies to register for them. Next, it’s the old families from the neighborhood. You know those PTA moms serving since 1980. Then it’s the folks with the “proper family names”. Get the picture? Names are picked by hummans and it’s those same people that decide if a child gets in or not. So, to break it down if Quanisha Smith applies, guess where her application goes? Stop being so ignorant and give the government the easy way out. All 4yr olds should be educated for free!

By jim d

April 11, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

Correct me if I’m wrong here,(and I’m sure a few will) but I read a teacher survey recently that stated “teachers consistently say that the most important factors in school readiness are health, verbal ability, curiosity and self-esteem”

Children acquire these traits best by experiencing the first year’s of their life in a loving home environment where they receive individual attention and nurturing from a parent rather than in a preschool classroom with other children and strangers.

There is simply no evidence that normal children benefit from preschool any more than from ordinary parenting.

By jim d

April 11, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

Holy crap,

Has anyone else done the math?

this breaks down to $4000 per student for pre k.

Yo Sonny—How bout just giving us a tax break?

By high school teacher

April 11, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

Technically speaking, there are only two types of pre-k: state funded pre-k and non-state funded pre-k. There are a variety of venues for both options.

By Why

April 11, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Why would you want to campout there?

• You’re supporting them - if you don’t like how they’re treating the disabled & the single parents & the working parents, you’re participating.

• These people haven’t found a fair, legal way to do this. How smart are they? Do you want them being the educational leaders of YOUR children?

• Some people think camping out & getting their kids into Lin means they can continue to go there after pre-k, even though they’re out-of-district. This shouldn’t be the case. I’m wondering - is it? Maybe someone here knows. Are transfers commonly given to out-of-district kids who make it to the pre-k? For the rest of the elementary years? That wouldn’t be right. Just wondering.

• Even if your kids DO get a transfer to Lin - or even if you’re already in the zone - Do you really want to add ANOTHER year of being institutionalized from 8-2:30 every day? Your kids will already spend SIX years of their lives behind those walls. Why are you so desperate to make it SEVEN institutionalized years??

• Remember, it’s no better than what you can do at home. It’s a GOVERNMENT curriculum. It lists the MINIMUMS to be learned, and that is what’s taught. You’ll do better playing IN Candler Park than putting your kid behind Canlder Park walls. Just take a walk w/ your kid!

Just some things to think about before you take a WEEK off of work to be ‘privileged’ to send your kid to a government institution for a GOVERNMENT EDUCATION. Just think about it!

By jim d

April 11, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

L2T,Cat and a few others,

Wanna form a corporation and start a few pre-k’s?

By A Private Daycare is not a Private School

April 11, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

Technically speaking, there are only two types of pre-k: state funded pre-k and non-state funded pre-k. There are a variety of venues for both options………YES WE KNOW THAT…We were NOT speaking technically! We are telling people who are walking into daycares and getting grossed-out to go into actual SCHOOLS! We are not talking “technically” - we are talking about institutions that are daycares and institutions that are coded as actual schools. But thank you for coming and trying to correct people.

By luvs2teach

April 11, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

lol - jim d - sure, except that age group gives me the heebie-jeebies!

Can I manage the $$$$ that is sure to roll in?

I’ll cook the hot dogs for our camp-outs, too - I’m sure our school will be a big hit!

By jim d

April 11, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

L2T,

4 year olds are a piece of cake.

Give em a bottle of juice and a few cookies and you really don’t even need to feed em. Get a large fenced area and turn em out—they will entertain themselves (and learn a lot doing it)

By linda

April 11, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

J - I don’t doubt that pre-K teachers deliver actual lessons. I just don’t understand WHY. MamaSandmomtoalexandmax you should direct your outrage at the fact that your child can enter KINDERGARTEN behind. (Although I question why parents cannot simply teach this information if it is in fact so freakin’ important.) I am upset that the government has snowed what appears to be involved parents such as yourselves into believing that a child cannot function in later years without pre-K, that it is more important that having a childhood, and that institutionalizing four year olds is perfectly normal and healthy. They actually have you fighting over spots to hand over your child! I really cannot even fathom why kindergarten needs to be a full day. How far ahead are they really going to get? They hit a developmental wall around 5th grade and are then bored. Where is the logic? And don’t give the better-than-a-bad-home-environment bull. THAT is a different problem entirely. And no matter how much your child “loves” his pre-K it is not better than a year learning and growing in a stimulating and loving home environment. I really cannot believe that so many of you think pre-K is a good idea.

By Gwinnett Mom

April 11, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this

You all know that the GA PreK program is fully funded by the lottery and not tax dollars, right?

I have used a Catholic preschool for my kids before PreK and they also have a PreK class there. I don’t see anything wrong with that, they have shorter days and only a few days a week. Sending my kids to the GA PreK does save me the $140 a month that I would otherwise pay.

For the record, my husband and I believe that learning does happen at home! We work with all of our children. I do work parttime from home to supplement my husbands salary. My son has thrived in the class. Each week they have a new subject and we always bring things from home to “share” for the topic.

By high school teacher

April 11, 2008 6:17 PM | Link to this

4 year olds are a piece of cake. Give em a bottle of juice and a few cookies and you really don’t even need to feed em. Get a large fenced area and turn em out—they will entertain themselves (and learn a lot doing it)

So, jimd, when was the last time you were around 4 year olds? :)

By Gwinnett Mom

April 11, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this

high school teacher-JimD means, I think, that kids should be given a chance to learn to work things out themselves, not the PC way-give them space. As a parent I struggle with that balance.

By jim d

April 11, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this

HST,

Not long ago.

Yeah, 4 year olds learn a lot simply with interaction with other 4 year olds. One important lesson that comes to mind is if they bite someone and are bitten back. (an invaluable lesson we all learned at somepoint) Parents can’t teach that type of thing, it must come from someone their own age.

By PreK Teacher

April 11, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this

First of all, each Pre-K site decides individually how to register students. Many use the lottery system, but some are first come first serve.

For those of you who question the value of Pre-K, look up the Perry Preschool Project, currently known as High/Scope, to see the benefits to society to give our children access to high quality pre-school.

http://www.highscope.org/Content.asp?ContentId=204

By momtoAlex&Max

April 11, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

OK, Linda. If that’s the way you feel, then please go ahead and teach your child at home. Don’t send him/her to pre-K. Really, please don’t.

More resources for the rest of us.

By Truth Filter

April 11, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

The Truth Filter has been out of this for a while, but now you’ve got me riled up!

1) The way some public school systems hand out their pre-k spots is definitely unfair and probably open for litigation. Who has time to spend camped out for a pre-K spot or a “you must be there to win” lottery? People with flexibility in their schedules. Guess what: In general, that DOES NOT include the people who are low-wage earners. So, it essentially makes the best pre-K slots available only to the wealthy. Yes, Atlanta, I’m talking to you. I’m shocked you haven’t been sued yet. What’s wrong with a lottery? Here’s an easy way to do it: a) Tell parents to pick up their number by a certain date with all paperwork filled out b) On the day of the drawing, make sure it’s open to the public so there’s no accusations of cheating or favoritism. Draw the numbers and then once all slots are filled, draw for the waiting list. c) Notify parents in writing or by phone calls and then set a date that the parent has to claim their slot. This is how charter schools do it, why not pre-K?

2) For those who aren’t aware of it, there are MANY good pre-K programs outside of the public school buildings. The Bright from the Start website has some information to help you decide, but definitely do a visit first. I got my kid into a high quality pre-K without having to stand in line, be in a lottery or stand on my head.

3) Jim D: you said — “Yeah, 4 year olds learn a lot simply with interaction with other 4 year olds.” Really? REALLY? Wow. You haven’t been in a pre-K class in a while.

By lovemy4kids

April 12, 2008 3:25 AM | Link to this

My neighbor’s son attended a lottery pre-K4 and this year attended the public school K-5. He is a very friendly and bright young boy and my 7 year old enjoys playing with him. I was not, however, impressed with the teaching methods used at his school. Reading was just a big guessing game. A list of 20 words from his reader was sent home periodically for the child to look at and memorize. No systematic phonics were taught. His printing was haphazard and he could not spell even basic words. He knew only a few addition and subtraction facts. After the first two weeks of school, I asked if he was learning to read. He said that he had learned that we read from left to right. In contrast, my son was reading three letter short vowel words and printing all of his letters before he went to a private half-day pre-K 4. I used a systematic phonics book based on Noah Webster’s BLUE-BACKED SPELLER. This successful and inexpensive curriculum is used in many private schools. I also taught my son to skip count by 2’s 5’s and 10’s. I created “Twister Math” by writing consecutive numbers on the Twister game cloth circles. I would call out a number and he would find it and stand on it. I would then say “plus one” or “minus one” and he would step forward or backward and read the number he was now standing on. This laid a great foundation for first-grade math. We also counted real money and played with “unit cubes”. My son breezed through pre-school and because he had a late birthday, I skipped him to first grade for home school. I continued with the same systematic phonics curriculum and he was able to write in cursive, spell, and read most anything. He learned most of his addition and subtraction facts, could count money and make change, and could tell time. We also studied ancient history from Mesopotamia to the Roman Empire. We studied Earth Science and climbed Stone Mountain. We even went to Maui, HI to climb one of its volcanos. Astronomy was one of my son’s favorite subjects and he still insists that he wants to be an astronaut and go to Mars. In conclusion, carefully evaluate the quality and methodology of the reading and math programs of the “free” Pre-K. If they are poorly implemented, it’s better to home school them, or find a quality private school.

By Lee

April 12, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

Prek Teach, regarding the High Scope project - what a load of malarky. To try to correlate how well a person is doing at age 40 based on whether or not they went to preschool is fuzzy logic, to say the least.

What is more interesting is the Ga PreK report from that same website. Basically says that Ga students who went to Prek were slightly above the national average of students who DIDN’T go to prek, but were slightly below the national average after 1st grade.

Ooops. How’d that happen?

Personally, I think there are two things that are more of a predicator of success in school - age of student relative to his/her peers and IQ.

Going into the first grade, there is a huge difference in ability between a younger student who just turned six and the older student who is about to turn seven. Include other factors such as a younger student with a lower IQ and you have a student who will struggle their entire school career.

IQ is the 800 pound gorilla that no one wants to talk about because as soon as you do, you cannot escape the IQ differences between the races and our politically correct apologists cannot bring themselves to face reality.

Now, let’s look at who really benefits from Prek and Pre-prek:

• Book and instructional materials companies.

• Schools of education. More grades to teacher equal more demand for teachers which equals more students attending college to get their teaching degrees.

• State and federal DOE’s and all the other agencies and groups. More years in school mean more influence over the public.

• Parents who look at Prek as free daycare.

There are a lot of things wrong with our educational system and subjecting children to endure an extra year (or two) of school is not the answer.

By Gwinnett Mom

April 12, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

lovemy4kids-that is truly amazing that your son was able to properly write all of his letters as well as read 3 letter words by age 4. You must be the best parent ever and we should all be just like you! Did it ever occur to you that not all kids are ready to do academics at the same time? I am glad you allow your son to play with his friend-who is 2 years younger-even though he isn’t as academically well off as your son. Maybe you should be tutoring him. It sounds like his parents are able to read to him either and he could really use you to get by in life. Maybe we should all send our kids to you, since you have all the answers! Are your other 3 kids as advanced as your 7yo?

By Another Mom

April 12, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

lovemy4kids has the right idea. I know people will object to this, but an awful lot depends on parents teaching your own kids… don’t rely just on school to do it.

My son is 2-1/2 and can say his ABCs, identifies both upper & lowercase letters on flashcards, knows his shapes & colors, and is learning a little about the sounds for each letter (D, dog…M, Mommy!), can spell his name & a few simple words (cat, dog, etc), can sing the days of the week & the months of the year.

I’m not an over-bearing pushy mom, either & he isn’t a child prodigy. His sister was the same way. This is all from play-learning with me a few minutes each day & we look at a few fun flash cards each night before I read his bedtime story. I’ve been doing these games with him since he was about a year old & to him it’s just fun time with Mommy.

My point is, if you even try to give your kids 10 minutes of play-learning a day, they will pick up so much more than you can imagine! And even for parents who have a hectic schedule because they both work, just try it 5-10 min when they’re in your lap anyways & make it a game.

By catherine

April 12, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

No illegal alien should step foot into a Pre-k classroom when you have citizens waiting for a slot.

By catlady

April 12, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

Catherine, of the Latino kids in pre K (at least in our county) 99% of them are LEGAL AMERICAN CITIZENS because they were born here. So they have as much “right” to the slot as Jimmy Jon Joe. Until the federal law is changed to reflect that the mother must be here legally for her offspring to be given automatic citizenship (which I don’t see ever happening, BTW) those children are legally just like YOURS and MINE. (In our county way more than half the slots go to Latino kids, as do those in Head Start as well.)

By red

April 12, 2008 11:29 PM | Link to this

I went to highscope.org and read the report about the research on GA’s Pre-K program, and the comparisions to the other programs in GA, such as Head Start and private Pre-K.

I was astounded at the results. Basically, it looks like the private Pre-k and the kids who attended NO pre-K at all, did better in first grade that the rest! Read for yourself! http://aysps.gsu.edu/publications/2005/EarlyChildhoodReport.pdf

By FormerPre-Kteacher

April 13, 2008 1:50 AM | Link to this

Hi- I am a former Pre-K teacher and was one of the first in GA in the early-mid 1990s. I left, disillusioned, after 4 years. I was unimpressed with the program and tired of the politics, including the county and state administrators who could not agree on how the program would be rolled out, managed, or what curriculum would be used. And it sounds like not much has changed, based on what I’ve read here. I do think that High/Scope offers many great benefits for “at-risk” kids who may not have the benefit of proper learning resources, and adult interaction at home for whatever reason. (socio-economic status, etc.) Otherwise, most kids do not NEED a formal Pre-k to learn what they need to learn to be ready for K. The social aspects can be taught on normal play dates. If you play with your kids, read to them and with them, and spend a normal amount of time with them, in addition to socializing them with other kids in the neighborhood, etc., then you should be covering the basic skills covered in Pre-k such as role-playing, verbal skills, social skills, letter/number/color recognition etc. And there are many things that kids are exposed to in “big-kid” public elementary schools that they may not be ready for at the tender age of 4, anyway. The shame to me was the kids who got into Pre-K via the lottery system, but who had serious behavioral issues, and who really needed individualized, specialized attention, which we were not equipped to provide. It only takes one immature child, (not every 4-yr old is ready to be in a school setting for a full day!) at such a young age, in a group-oriented program to affect the learning and success of the other 19 students. Since the High/scope model is all about child-driven group activities at several themed “centers” throughout the classroom, children who had behavioral or chemical disorders could not always handle themselves appropriately amongst 19 other kids and make good choices, which prevented the other children from benefiting from the program. Much of our time as teachers was spent trying to keep those few kids from hurting others physically or emotionally. But once they were “in”, they were “in”, and there were no special resources for Pre-K to deal with these issues, such as counselors, special needs instructors, etc. None of the extra resources were available to Pre-K, only K+, so we were on an island, fending for ourselves. To me there should be some sort of basic behavioral requirements to be met in order for a child to take a spot in a class. OR there should have been some additional resources to DEAL with and ASSIST these special-needs kids with their behaviorial needs, so that they could actually learn, and grow. By not having the resources available to the kids who really needed more than the High/Scope pre-k could provide, it was defeating the whole purpose of the program. For example, there was one student in my class who had been turned away/kicked out of FOUR (yes, 4) day-care programs prior to being in my class, because of outrageous and inappropriate behavior which included cursing, throwing chairs, spitting, and hitting. And once the child was placed in my class, there was nothing I could do. The entire class suffered all year due to lack of support from the principal and the parent, who, after having gone through four daycare centers, was glad to finally have a place to drop off her child, FREE, ALL DAY, so she could go to work in peace…. On another note, the last straw for me was when one of my students was murdered (yes murdered - long story - not pretty), and the school counselor would not come to my class to help my students deal with the tragedy, because they were “too young” for her and she was too busy with the K-8 students … . This was a “lesson” that my 4-year old students could have done without, along with other things, such as when they found used condoms on the playground, or how to run for cover when gunshots are heard, etc. These are just a FEW examples of some of the things students were exposed to in Pre-K… Hopefully this information will help some of you parents feel better if you DON’t get a spot for your child in the Pre-K program, which may not necessarily be the end-all/be-all best thing for your child anyway! Best of luck to you all!

By Stephanie

April 13, 2008 3:29 AM | Link to this

(Earlier comment by a teacher):Also, I really hate that having a successful kindergarten year is dependent on being in Pre-K. For those who don’t get some sort of pre-schooling at age 4, they are already behind when they start kindergarten. My comments: I do not feel it has to be dependent on being in Pre-K. I have tried to work with my 3 yr old since he was born (some while carrying him). I feel we should do more at home with our kids to make sure they are ready and continue to help and monitor to make sure they are learning as they should. We rely too much on others. He can write all letters, most numbers, etc.
We will finance all kinds of things that are temporary but won’t sacrifice to make sure they are educated and learn. Lets do more of what we can do and I really believe our kids will have a brighter future.

By high school teacher

April 13, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this

Wow, it sounds as if I should count my blessings; our experience with Pre-K with our oldest one was nothing like the other experiences mentioned here. My husband and I like to think of ourselves as good parents; we have done all the activities mentioned. We read to our children, play learning games masked as play time, and both of our boys are very smart. However, I feel that my son was enriched greatly by his Pre-K experience. I don’t see it simply as free day care. If my son’s experience was anything like former Pre-K teacher described, I would have taken him out of the program, and I would not enroll my youngest son. As I said, I am grateful to live in a community that offers a better environment for Pre-K.

By Sam

April 13, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

Public school is a pathetic joke.It gets worse every year. The teachers in public school for the most part are horrible and the whole system is designed to dumb down children and make them politically correct.I will never spend one cent to give to the miserable public school system

By Bob

April 13, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

Sounds like a great program. I was in other states during my children’s pre-K years. As I recall the programs cost thousands of dollars each year. When we lived in New Hampshire we even paid for kindergarten. Kids are expensive. Perhaps we should ban them.

By Racebaiter

April 13, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

Kick out the children of illegals and there will be much more room. And we won’t have to spend time on ESL nonsense. It’s ridiculous what has happened to this country. The anchor baby amendment needs to be removed.

By lovemy4kids

April 13, 2008 9:30 PM | Link to this

Hi Gwinnett Mom! Thanks for your comments. Actually, I did get together with the neighbor’s mom and showed her the curriculum I used. I compared methodologies of her son’s K5 curriculum to mine. She becameso convinced of the superiority of my systematic phonics program that she ended up purchasing it. She has an MBA and is the main breadwinner of the family. Her main problem in implementing the better methodology was that her son was still being graded on memorizing the 20 weekly sight words (very time consuming and ineffective) and that ate up much of her afternoon time with her son. She would then have to reteach him systematic phonics after the fact. The two methodologies conflict with one another. The parents decided to move out of the county to a better school district and their house is currently up for sale. My son’s friend is very bright, and it is the curriculum and methodology that is inferior, not his ability to master reading and writing. This same curriculum/methodology has worked equally well for my other three children;one has ADHD and another has Asperger’s Syndrome. All have scored well above average on standardized tests. As an older parent (I was 11 when Neil Armstrong landed on the moon) I have personally seen a major decline in the quality of public education. It is mainly due to the fact that successful time-tested pedagogy has been thrown out and replaced with inferior psychology based methods. By age four, children’s brains are little sponges, soaking up whatever is presented to them (at least in memorized form). Why not present the alphabet and corresponding sounds to them instead of a steady diet of Dora the Explorer or Sponge Bob? Parents have been brainwashed into thinking that only a reading “expert” can teach their child to read.

By Kindergarten Teacher

April 13, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

Sam, do you pay taxes? You are helping fund this “miserable public school system.”

To the person who said that Kindergarten children had to take an entrance exam…. Kindergarten is not college. They don’t fail and therefore not let in. The Kindergarten assessment is simply a tool for the teachers to know what prior knowledge each child is bringing to school. We don’t have last year’s records to determine what your child has learned before entering our classrooms.

Having said that, I have found that pre-K is not always the best indicator of academic success. The more involved a parent is, the more the parent values education, the more successful a child will be.

My child did not go to pre-K. He stayed with a sitter. But, our sitter shared our values where education is concerned, and she worked with him and her own son daily. They are both doing very well in Kindergarten.

Do what you feel you have to do regarding Kindergarten, but don’t let pre-K be an excuse to not do your job as a parent. I can’t imagine a parent that values education not laying the foundation for those things that will be asked during the Kindergarten screening.

(Oh, and for the record.. this is my first year teaching Kindergarten. I’ve taught mostly upper grade elementary students. I did not see the Kindergarten assessment before my child was screened, so I did not coach him to do well.)

By K-Teacher

April 13, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

Actually, the illegals need the program more than the natives of this country. GA PK was meant for economically disadvantaged children, not those with silver spoons in their mouth. Your child will not learn academics in GAPK, they will learn how to play and that’s it. As a kindergarten teacher that has taught GAPK, I hated it and the children that come from GA PK have not learned more than a child that has been homeschooled.

By jim d

April 14, 2008 7:01 AM | Link to this

Reading this blog baffles me. I find it unimagianable that so many parents would willingly surrender a four year old to the state for indoctrination, and fight over the process of being able to do so!

Some of y’all are out of your friggin minds. I have but one question; Why the hell did you even ever decide to procreate if you didn’t want to raise your off spring? Damn, Y’all continue to prove JM’s contention that parents are the entire problem with education. You give those truly loving, concerned, involved parents a bad name.

By Clarence

April 14, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this

About 55% of Georgia’s 4-year-olds are served by the public Pre-K program. Only one state offers a public program to a larger percentage of children. Waiting lists are an issue, but they only affect a handful of populous counties.

Public Pre-K is taught primarily in elementary schools or private daycare facilities. The slots in the actual elementary schools are more saught after, and there are not many slots available there because so many metro systems simply don’t have the space.

Also, the program is funded entirely with funds raised from the lottery, not tax dollars.

By Gwinnett Mom

April 14, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

Lovemy4kids-thank you for the extra information. I have to say that I haven’t gotten mine in Kindergarten and since I was in another state during those years, I am not sure what to expect. I do view PreK as a valuable experience just as I do preschool. NOT for the academics, but they do learn a lot of social skills and other view points. That is where my husband and I lack as parents. We aren’t great socially. We also believe that there are many unexpected life lessons to learn from interacting with different people. I know that my son is above most of his class, he is reading to me at night and then I read a longer story to him and the girls. I am sure that we are doing what is in the best interest of our family. We work on math while cooking and playing with money from their piggy banks, we learn about budgets while understanding that we aren’t going to get whatever they want at the store and they are more likely to get a treat if there is a good sale. I hope to instill in my kids that they aren’t owed anything, but have to work for what they get and to enjoy it more. My kids garden fruits and vegetables.

However, I do feel that some parents feel that learning is a race. I did not learn easily and was later told I had learning disability that was never treated, yet I have a college degree from a University and I over came those obsticles. True, I can’t spell worth a flip!

I want my children to love to learn and right now they do. We skip sponge bob for Discovery, although they do watch some other cartoons.

PreK works for my family. If I thought it was a daycare I wouldn’t be there helping all the time. I hope that K will be just as successfull and any problems that might arise, I hope my children will learn that not everything goes their way. We will always work with our kids on their education and we will always teach them as much as we can. However, going to school also means that our children will experience so many things we won’t be able to provide them. Is that always good? Maybe not, but that is life!

By Daedalus

April 28, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

Since the folks the run APS are remarkably dim bulbs, and since the parents of the little incubi that are camping on Candler Park Drive believe, based on the posts above, that its illegal immigrants who are destroying this country — I’d like to point out that camping on city streets is illegal.

Y’all rant how Mexicans are breaking the law and must be deported —but you have no problem with setting up camp, complete with generators running 24/7, peeing in peoples yard and leaving garbage in the streets — all in violation of the city code.

You do it for the children? Fine example you set — why not just camp in your own yard and leave your trash there?

The funny part is that getting your kid into a coveted pre-k program like Mary Lin does not mean your little brat will get into Mary Lin — that’s based on concept called ‘geography’ ….

By kim stambaugh

May 25, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

Hi everyone I am from Michigan, and have a 4 year old in a pay pre-k program(they also have a MSRP state funded program in the A.M/free. I enrolled him in April of this year, the school goes thru may, and resumes in September. I was also just told since I didnt pre registar him in February, He CANNOT return in September(I was never told this when I paid to enroll him?) He has different issues with behavior, ect(not so bad though.) I think teacher just does’nt want to deal with him? I feel If I am in this program already(and paying, I should be able to stay in this program.)She wont even put us on the waiting list(She is such a horrible person-It’s all who she knows, and want in that class. Shes trying to push him in a program that is for low income parents Which I DO NOT qualify for so that program is saying No. THey told me if hes already in this other pre-k program Why cant he stay there? Also he should be a top priority to stay in due to his issues. I am sooooo frustrated (ugh.)Please help me with some input. Thank y0u….

By kim

June 2, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this

I agree I think public pre-k should be open to all children. It is totally unfair. Many parents can’t afford to send their child to a private pre-k and may be at a disadvantage in kindergarten. However, if you are looking for an affordable half day pre-k program. Please contact me kim@atlantaprogressivepreschool.org There is a new program near Clairemont and 85.

By Sad

June 6, 2008 10:37 PM | Link to this

I just have to say that my son went to pre-k and learned no more than he would have if I would have left him in a box all day long. He never really had a steady teacher, unless you can call a 17 year old girl who dropped out of high school a teacher. Now its my daughters turn. I am a hard working mom, and when the time came around to sign her up I was so busy with work I hadn’ t even noticed. Now, everyday she asks when will she be going to pre-k. Well, I dont want to lie to her. I just tell her that there are a lot of other kids who need it more. Of course she cries. But what can I do. I want her to go but not because its free but because thats what she wants.

Now hitting the subject about students with illegal parents. My childrens father is illegal, but they are not. They were born at Northside Hospital. Wether their parents are legal or not, they are children, and if we want to teach all children to be fare, why try to shun them out. I teach my kids that everybody is equal in GODs eyes. Why is it that so many people are racist and prejudice. Children are inocent, and we should treat them all that way, black, asian, hispanic, white or of any race for that fact.