Get Schooled

By Genny

April 7, 2008 8:15 AM | Link to this

Classroom management is a skill. Some teachers are skilled in this area and some are not. It is parents that should teach their children the importance of school. Teachers should not have manage a classroom like it is a prison.

By KCL

April 7, 2008 8:18 AM | Link to this

We don’t home school but do feel the need to send our children to private school. Until the public school system improves greatly it would seem impossible to rule that someone couldn’t home school. Almost anything is better than some of our public schools. And just for the record, it isn’t about totally poor teachers, etc. but the poor direction they are given by our ruling governments (Nationally and locally) and the parents that are more interested in their childrens immediate interest and lack of seeing their temp shortcoming (i.e. my child is never wrong, etc.). From the studies I’ve read it appears that home schooled children score as well or better than children sent to public schools so what is the problem? Also, they don’t have to worry about thier 3rd graders coming home with four letters words that aren’t on the spelling test.

By alt teacher

April 7, 2008 8:20 AM | Link to this

I am a certified teacher and homeschooled my children before I became a teacher. I had a BA and Masters studies, but no teaching certification at the time. I think that this is ridiculous that the state is demanding that parents are certified to teach their own children. Waldorf teachers, private school teachers, missionaries, Mennonites and others do not have the typical teaching certification. It is not the business of the state in interfere with homeschooling.
Some people are scholars without any diplomas. This is an arrogance on the part of colleges and certification boards to think that they have the market on teaching. Homeschooling is an individual right for U.S. citizens.

I began homeschooling my daughter when we lived in Alabama in the 1980s when parents were being arrested for homeschooling. We have to be very careful about not infringing on citizens’ civil rights. As a certified teacher, I believe that I was competent when I homeschooled my children. Today they are all intellectuals and lifelong learners.

By Kym-Mom

April 7, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this

At what point should a parent stop being a child’s only teacher?

Parents stop becoming the only teacher when that child leaves the “nest”. Not just physically but also when there is a mental shift and the child begins to develop their own identity. Our kids develop and learn by the examples we set for them. The behaviors, attitudes, beliefs are all things they observe in living with Mom and Dad. My child has now noticed that in somethings he is begining to sound just like me. Some cases good, some cases not so good. But, in any case it is based on his observations of me. I fully believe that the school system has overstep their bounds and that we(as a whole) have let them. Parents are now looking to the school system(teachers) to do all the work-developmental as oppose to letting the school be a helper in the development of the child.

By WFC

April 7, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

Retired after 31 years of teaching, coaching and administering in public and private schools. I respect parents who choose to home school but don’t think it’s a particularly good idea in most cases.

• Sooner or later, children will learn that the world does not operate according to the dictates of THEIR PARENTS.

• Your beliefs are YOUR BELIEFS but other people have the right to laugh at them and believe them to be stupid. Hang in there but don’t be surprised.

• I do a lot of home schooling in spite of the fact that my son attends public school. I’m smart enough to realize that I’m not competent to teach calculus or Latin.

• You can’t make your kid your clone… but good luck trying!

By L. King

April 7, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

If a parent wants to homeschool their kids then that is fine. The parent I believe has the ability to control their own children. I believe that if you want to put in the time to study the different materials to teach your kids then go for it. Now when you get into the public school system that is a different story.

By middleschoolteacher

April 7, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

As a public middle school teacher, I have had students enter my class who have been homeschooled. Some of these students are terrific thinkers and are models of great learning behavior. When I complemented a parent last year on the her previously homeschooled child and his obvious preparation for learning, she was amazed that a public school teacher would do that. On the other hand, I have had some who were woefully behind their peers, both academically and socially because homeschooling was done to avoid attendance issues.

Can we just agree that some homeschooling is exactly what the child needs and some is not - just like public education? Not all homeschoolers achieve phenomenal scores on the SAT, but it is great to read about those who do.

Do I think rules should be placed on the parents who homeschool? At a minimum, require a high school diploma - not a GED. Remember, this ruling was in California, hardly the example that is followed in other areas of the country.

By hegelian

April 7, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this

Ant parent can be a teacher, period. We have bought into this “certified”, “centralized”, age segregated model of teaching that has given us what? a steady decline in almost every (important) category we should measure. Oh, we’re up on pregnancy, sex/homosexual tolerance and the like… But we must remember a hundred years ago the wife stayed home and the disposable income/purchasing power of the sole breadwinner was the same as about 10 years ago—which required 2 breadwinners and the net effect being the children brought up (in the Prussian style)— by “certified” teachers while both parents worked (not to mention the commensurate taxation increases along the way…can you say 16th amendment and 1913?)…
But, with the advent of the industrial age, the powers that be realized a couple things #1) We cannot have overproduction and price (ie: profit) instability… #2) We need specialized trained workers who have been re-trained, so-to-speak, away from the inherent/common American ideal of a rugged-indvidualist with and entrepreneurial sprit… Therefore those reps of the Education Trust stepped in and developed the system and style of education (or rather “schooling”) we have today— a climate the produces boredom, tests just for answers— using almost zero critical thinking, and 40 minutes into it, a pavlovian-style bell signals “time to try something new”…. and this is reinforced once those kids make it home and start the TV to see distraction after distraction timed in a similar fashion.
Why? Again we need to be trained as consumers, quickly bored with what we have trained to want something new— and educated to be an employee and thus not a threat to big business— therefore kids are trained to compete via grades, to get into schools and hope, above all else, that they get “picked” as the one for the job with a big corporation. Coupled with no loyalty to the employee, the corporatio can use constant fear as a tactic to keep prices (

By Vince

April 7, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

What makes someone a teacher?

I respect homeschoolers though I wish they wouldn’t wait so long to go ahead and send their kids to public schools. Once they do they are routinely years behind their peers and have no work ethic. I have three masters degrees (all in education) but there are many things I know I could never teach my children.

By Chuck

April 7, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

Classroom Management is essential for a teacher in a group setting, but does not make for a good teacher. As a High School Science teacher in a public school, I have seen many forget that a good teacher does not have to have good classroom management. I would compare this to saying a good driver does not make for a good race car driver. OR A good lawyer does not make for a good trial lawyer. Many of the greatest “teachers” from history could never teach in a current classroom setting and factors like the types of students play a large role.

I also do think the home schooling situation in every state needs to be regulated by the government. I hear coworkers talk about parents without a GED pulling their child out of school to be “home schooled”. Many parents home school their children until the material becomes too difficult which often means the public school gets a child behind or ahead of his grade level. The problem is with the child that is 16 years old and only home schooled until 7th or 8th grade when the science and math became more difficult.

Home schooling “teachers” need to be able to show to the state they have the knowledge necessary to teach their child. It sounds simple, but it is sad that Georgia will never adopt this idea because we live in a state that does not even require school board members to have a High School Diploma.

By parentof4

April 7, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

I know a lot of people who homeschool now. And to be honest with you, I like the idea. There are computer programs that are wonderful and the kids learn at their own pace. In fact, my children attend a school that uses a homeschool computer program. I like it because the kids can work at their own pace and excell if they are at that level. They do not have to remain at a certain grade level because of their age. Age does not determine intelligence. That was created just to limit how many kids are in the system.

Do I believe their should be a teacher certificate? No. With so many programs out there, the parents are not really “teaching” the child. They are working with them to learn the information. Also, the parent can go over the lesson to see if they can figure it out. If not, then you have a help group that is available.

By Lucky

April 7, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

Depends on the parent. My dad passed away 12 years ago and I STILL learn from him.

By hegelian

April 7, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this

Continued from 9:27am post…(sorry) …Coupled with no loyalty to the employee, the corporation can use constant fear as a tactic to keep prices (wage) down… So, we have been systematically transformed from a individual, entrepreneurial, self-sufficent America (well educated I might add)— to a sexed-up, politically correct, “feeling-centered” nation of employees, helpless in most things unrelated to our specialty— ready to cry “victim” when a perceived slight is “felt”…and sue someone hoping for the legal lotto to hit. Pathetic… and who wants more of the same??? Let us start to rerverse this trend, save us ALL a ton of money— break up the school (Government sanctioned) monopoly and all the crony corporations that parasitically thrive off it (booksellers, materials, construction contractors, teachers schools, furniture manufacturers, etc…)— Give people a real choice and let them KEEP their tax money… Simply put, if I don’t agree with the system and refuse to pay the taxes associated with this system, I lose all my property at tax sale…That is REAL American<—-sarcasm..but I guess I could have spelled it Amerikan…

By HS Teacher Too

April 7, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this

I have extraordinarily mixed feelings about homeschooling. However, I do defend parents’rights to homeschool their child(ren). There are plenty of able, intelligent, potentially amazing teachers in this world who do not hold a “teaching certificate” per se. This rule effectively says a parent who is a brilliant, articulate, world-renowned surgeon, or biologist, or historian, or poet, or chef — is not qualified to teach their child(ren) that subject. This is foolish and ridiculous. The very children the rule hopes to protect will lose out, even if only in a small sense. (Sure, their parents may still teach them throughout their daily lives, but who is the court to say that they can’t do that in lieu of more traditional schooling?) I share the hope that the ruling is challenged and reversed.

Are their idiots out there who are homeschooling their kids, to the detriment of those kids and ultimately to society? YES. But it seems to me that the better way to get at that problem is to address it directly, by putting in place some mechanisms to check on homeschooled childrens’ academic progress.

Besides, goodness knows, there is NO shortage of LOUSY teachers who DO have that “certificate” that says they are qualified, and yet we wouldn’t want our kids in those teachers’ classrooms!

By One Man's View

April 7, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

For the most part homeschooling is a bad idea. Kids need exposure beyond the home. They will take into the classroom and perform as they have picked up on from their parents. I doubt if smart kids will be dumbed-down. I am quite sure that kids whose parents are ill-informed will do poorly at home, but may have a better chance in school.

The broader question of who can be a teacher is tricky. There is the interaction with kids and imparting skills and knowledge. And then there is the dealing with school bureaucracy and requirements. For many the second is way more frustrating than actually teaching.

By LB

April 7, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

Home schooling should be an individual preferance. If the child is making the grade, why should it matter who educates them.

As for public school, I have seen subs who are better teachers than degreed teachers. There really needs to be a different screening process for want to be teachers. A bunch of papers on the wall mean nothing if there is no action behind them. I had a student tell me one time that teachers are in the school to earn a pay check and to play politics. This was the absolute worst behaved student in the entire school, yet there is a lot to be learned from his statement. If a kid can pick up on this attitude in a teacher then teachers should actually care about students and their futures before considering a teaching job. The governing powers over teachers should have a different attitude and get rid of the stupid politics.

By hegelian

April 7, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

Monopolies = higher prices/inferior product Therefore: Public School = Higher price/inferior product Private schools average cost/pupil is MUCH cheaper than public schools, and gives a better product. Homeschools are much cheaper still, and give the overall best product. Most homeschooled children don’t re-integrate into public schools, so for a public school teacher to claim (as the norm) those students are way behind— is really representative of the few completely slacker people who use homeschooling as a vehicle complement their sluggardly lives. It is not the nations’ (at least not this one) job to be the parent. And each freedom we relinquish to the “Certified” or Federal Govt.. is one that we won’t get back…and in the name of the “children” they will do much more harm than good. Other forms of government have this like COMMUNISM! Did you know we practice almost all forms of the 10 planks to the communist manifesto??? Yep… Guess what #10 is???? See below: 10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production. ——-Americans are being taxed to support what we call ‘public’ schools, but are actually “government force-tax-funded schools ” Even private schools are government regulated. The purpose is to train the young to work for the communal debt system. We also call it the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based “Education” . These are used so that all children can be indoctrinated and inculcated with the government propaganda, like “majority rules”, and “pay your fair share”. WHERE are the words “fair share” in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or the Internal Revenue Code (Title 26)?? NO WHERE is “fair share” even suggested !! The philosophical concept of “fair share” comes from the Communist maxim, “From each according to their ability, to each according to their need! This concept is pure socialism. … America was made the greatest society by its private initiative WORK ETHIC … Teaching ourselves and others how to “fish” to be self sufficient and produce plenty of EXTRA commodities to if so desired could be shared with others who might be “needy”… Americans have always voluntarily been the MOST generous and charitable society on the planet. Let’s keep it that way…voluntary.

By LB

April 7, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

Home schooling should be an individual preferance. If the child is making the grade, why should it matter who educates them.

As for public school, I have seen subs who are better teachers than degreed teachers. There really needs to be a different screening process for want to be teachers. A bunch of papers on the wall mean nothing if there is no action behind them. I had a student tell me one time that teachers are in the school to earn a pay check and to play politics. This was the absolute worst behaved student in the entire school, yet there is a lot to be learned from his statement. If a kid can pick up on this attitude in a teacher then teachers should actually care about students and their futures before considering a teaching job. The governing powers over teachers should have a different attitude and get rid of the stupid politics.

By LB

April 7, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

Home schooling should be an individual preferance. If the child is making the grade, why should it matter who educates them.

As for public school, I have seen subs who are better teachers than degreed teachers. There really needs to be a different screening process for want to be teachers. A bunch of papers on the wall mean nothing if there is no action behind them. I had a student tell me one time that teachers are in the school to earn a pay check and to play politics. This was the absolute worst behaved student in the entire school, yet there is a lot to be learned from his statement. If a kid can pick up on this attitude in a teacher then teachers should actually care about students and their futures before considering a teaching job. The governing powers over teachers should have a different attitude and get rid of the stupid politics.

By SET

April 7, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

There is a conflict between the interests of the state and the inetersts of the family. The state intends to operate degenerate “schools”, the families want their children to be self sufficient adults. Some parents want to keep the kids away from prying eyes that could report the sex and physical abuse - at the extreme end. You won’t find cults enrolling their kids in public schools.

I still think that Internet secondary schools will take the fight out of this issue, allowing homeschoolers to enroll in internet classes at private schools across the country supplemented by parental supervision. The issue is not as clear for grades 1-6.

It is beyond dispute to me that the evil posed by the state is greater than the evil posed by decent parents.

We do need to wholesale remove children of addicts, criminals and degenerates and award them to qualified relatives first and then to adoptive families second. We need to build orphanages, large orphanages, as a back up. It’s possible some of the disgusting mothers I see in court will modify some of their worst behavior when they see the high rise Children’s Homes going up.

As far as the court ruling go, we need to start pulling teeth at federal court. state courts are not quite as crazy.

By Fred

April 7, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

Parents should be able to teach their kids at home for as long as they wish. We as a society think this might be detrimental but there is no proof that homeschooling has ever been detrimental to the kid or society.

The other popular argument against homeschooling is the one about socialization. Hmm, with all of the events that have been occurring in schools that are socially related, we might want to re-think that.

By harv

April 7, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

The question is one of outcomes for the students. How well do the home schooled compare on the SAT? Focus on what matters!!!

By eleteach

April 7, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

Here’s a thought:

GA doesn’t even require its public school teachers have a teaching certificate to start out with. There is an apprenticeship program called TAPP in which those who hold a 4 year degree, in anything, can apply to teach in a public school.

Also consider, substitute teachers are not required to have teaching certificates either.

So…homeschooling parents are going to be told that they cannot teach their children at home because they do not have a teaching certificate only to possibly have their children placed in a classroom where the “teacher” doesn’t have a teaching certificate???

By Netta

April 7, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

My grand daughter attends elementary school in the Fulton County School system. Her 1st grade teacher has been absent far more than she has been present at school. I am a masters level former teacher and I certainly know the importance of attendance as it relates to learning. Even though my child continues to attend this public school in College Park, I take the responsibility of educating my child as well. I firmly believe that the social component of education is just as important in terms of interacting with other kids, discipline, communicating with others in authority, and learning to live with people of all cultures. However, my hat is off to those with the wherewithal to successfully home school their children.

By abc

April 7, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

The average IQ in Georgia is 92. One in twenty (drivers, parents, teachers, etc.) has an IQ of 55-60. 70 is the threshold for mild retardation. Things have improved over the past 50 years though, in 1950 the average IQ was 20-25 points lower.

Obviously, not everyone is well suited to being a teacher.

By lolo

April 7, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

Can anyone be a teacher…Yes

Can anyone be a good teacher…Hell No!

By MrHughes

April 7, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

Okay, there’s a huge difference between programs like TAPP or TFA and substitute teachers and home school. TAPP and TFA are about getting recent college graduates with a passion for teaching and people from different walks of life into the classroom. Both have had amazing success. I think it’s a noble cause. Substitute teachers should not need to have a teaching certificate as they are following the lesson plan and assigning work based on the wishes of the teacher. Do ya’ll realize that we need to have these programs because there is a huge shortage of teachers? The main point that is overlooked is that these people are supervised by the school and have rigid standards that they have to follow. The truth is that they are looked at much more closely than the average educator with a certification. In addition, one can’t keep teaching without a credential after you’ve finished your service. The same is not true of homeschool “educator”. Frankly, I think that homeschooling should reguire at least a bachelor’s degree. I went to one of the most selective colleges in this country and would not dream of teaching my child Calculus, Biology, or Latin either even though I’ve done well in in all three during my academic career. I wouldn’t even trust the average person to teach English these days. I work with people who don’t know the difference between “your” and “you’re”. That’s sad… These are the kind of people that we are talking about letting educate our children with little to no supervision or qualifications!! And, that’s the problem. Real education is not about sitting your child in front of a computer program, using a booklet, or teaching children the things you think they should know as their parent. Education is about opening your mind to all the possabilities in the world. The main benefit of homeschooling is that the child can work at their own pace and they have the attention of their parent rather than a teacher in a classroom that deals with 20-30 kids. That’s an advantage. But, their are obvious drawbacks. My parents taught me a plethora of things at home before I went to school. They also read to me and helped me with my homework for the purposes of supplementing my education. Both of my parents have advanced degrees (mom’s a teacher), but they realized that they didn’t know more than a teacher that had devoted their life work to the mastery of a certain subject. I wish more people would take that stance. True knowledge is realizing that you don’t know it all… Would you trust a doctor who’d learned his craft at home without any level of education? How about a mechanic, lawyer, or accountant? Why should educators be any different?

By teach1

April 7, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

abc - where do you get those stats? I owuld be interested in seeing how the info was obtained and who did the research on everyones IQ.

By abc

April 7, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

Several sources, researched by state, university, federal entities. If you’re a teacher and fairly bright, I’m sure you can scare them up. National average is 98; IQ varies by ethnicity, also easy to look up; it varies by income, but that shouldn’t be a big surprise. Women are generally 5-10 points higher than men, also not such a big surprise. There is a wealth of published IQ research, all you have to do is look for it.

By flipper

April 7, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

I could care less whether some other family homeschools so long as they are not abusing their children psychologically or physically in the process. I wouldn’t do it with mine b/c they are getting an amazing education and having a wonderful time in public school. If I was in a pickle and had no access to good public/private schools I might even consider it myself.

My husband taught freshman English at UVA about 15 years ago. He had two homeschooled students in his time there. Both had never been to any sort of school environment prior to college. The first was a loner who killed himself. The second developed some serious drug/alcohol issues and had to withdraw to attend rehab.

I know lots of homeschooled kids do fine in college. However, I consider it to be abuse to refuse to expose a child to a classroom experience (with regular kids) before they attend college. A kid has to learn to flap his wings before he can fly. You just can’t dump college life on a homeschooled kid at the age of 18 and expect them to adjust to all of the social pressures and politics on their own.

By Mr Chips

April 7, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Classroom management skills? Isn’t that like hiding under your desk during a nuclear bomb explosion? Duck and cover!

Teachers are born, not made. Most teachers cheat to get certified, or they barely pass the criteria, and then torture young people for years and years with their own feelings about specie-heirarchy while they compare children to birds or dogs. Then they spout anectdotal evidence to justify their ignorance and incompetence.

Insert Course correction here, Karma.

By HB

April 7, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

Did this law actually make it through the California legislature? I’m shocked. Back in the late 90s when I was working in the Georgia House, a rep introduced a bill that would require homeschooling parents to have a bachelor’s degree (but not a teaching certificate). Not even partial birth abortion caused as much of an outcry as the first reading of that bill did. For 3 days, the ed committee was inundated with thousands of calls, essentially shutting down all other phone communication. The bill was tabled for study in committee and never heard from again.

I think requiring a certain level of education for homeschooling parents is needed is debatable, but mandating that parents have a teaching certificate designed to prepare employees for the classroom seems a bit silly.

By mmm

April 7, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

Some of the best teachers my kids have had have not been “certified”. (In a public Charter school.)

Parents can be perfectly good teachers or they can be awful—but certification is a monopoly that has only served teacher training schools.

By dgirl

April 7, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

Consider this scenario: I don’t like the way nurses treat patients in the hospital. I think I can treat my child much more effectively at home, so I prefer to keep my child in home-hospital. Of course I know little about how to start an IV, but I think I can do it better than professionals because, after all, I am the child’s parent. When teaching is viewed as a profession, like medicine or law, we will stop having so many kids who are home-schooled——AND we will stop allowing anyone with a degree to walk into a Georgia classroom and teach! Can you imagine what would happen if a teacher walked into a hospital and said,”I have a degree—let me start your IV?”

By elaine

April 7, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

A couple of months ago, I sat in on several different subject classes in a middle school setting for an entire day. Not one book was opened in any subject the entire day. Most of the classes the teachers didn’t even really talk to the students, as they just watched videos streamed in through you guessed it, the computer. One middle school class even watched a Magic School Bus video on gravity. In all but two classes, the students were out of control. One teacher that was out in a trailer told me that she allows her entire class to go back into the building for a bathroom break at the beginning of the class everyday, (a process that took 10-15 minutes). Three of the teachers talked so rudely to some of the students that I was embarrassed to sit there and listen. In the math class I asked a student if they ever used there books and he showed me that they were all stacked up in the corner of the room and said that they rarely used them. One student was sent home for having inappropriate pictures at school…

Homeschooling is good if you can do it and do it effectively. It definitely needs to be monitored more closely and the parents held more accountable. But then again, this needs to be done to the teachers in public schools…

Homeschooling is not for everyone but it has to be a better alternative then most public schools

By lovelyliz

April 7, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

There is quite a difference between teaching a group of 25 to 30 children and doing so successfully while obeying all the rules and abiding all the politics that goes on AND homeschooling your own children while in total control of the environment and the budget.

Not that successfully homeschooling children is easy, but it’s so pple and oranges when compared to a formal education and most parents couldn’t do either.

By MrLiberty

April 7, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

Anyone can teach, but it takes a truly special kind of person to become a government-approved and certified teacher.

Walter Williams put together some statistics a bit back that likley havent’ changed. According to the various testing services, students who list “education” as their major, score the lowest of any group on the SAT, the second lowest (right behind sociology) on the GRE, and 26th out of 29th on the LSAT. On tests such as the Wessman Personnel Classification Test of verbal analogy and elementary arithmetical computations, the teachers scored, on average, only slightly better than clerical workers. A rather low score was enough to pass. Yet half the teachers failed. No, this is not every teacher, but before we go praising the institution for performance it cannot substantiate…

Then they must be the type of person who can put up with the indoctrination programs that make up the remainder of a “state certified” education program.

Yes, this column correctly points out that classroom management and course preparation are not the kind of things one can easily pick up, but one must remember that government schools are designed to be indoctrination centers where individuals are disciplined down to the level of subservient and obient good little citizens. Control is the key to destroying the individual. Parents appreciate the value of homeschooling because individuality is meant to be retained.

Expertise on subjects can be communicated by anyone who truly cares. Yes, there are some situations where little or nothing is being taught, but these exist in govt. schools as well and nobody is accoutable for these children either. Those parents who wish to take on the responsibility (the one that is supposed to be theirs in the first place), should be allowed to - period.

This is all about control. The sooner you wake up and realize it the better it will be for all children. The government selects the curriculum, the books, the subjects, etc. It is “their” version you learn, and it makes it that much easier for them to perpetuate the lies when you get older.

Two quick examples. The Depression. You learned that is was cause by greedy businessmen and the unsustainability of the free market. In reality, just like today, it was caused by massive government spending and credit bubbles caused by the Federal Reserve and its non-stop printing press. Do you know any better now? I didn’t think so.

WWII - You were told that Pearl Harbor was a “surprise” attack, but Roosevelt was already bombing Japanese miliary positions in China and had imposed a blockade against all shipping interests in what FDR’s own secretary of war said was “an act of WAR”. Those men at Pearl Harbor were sacrificed so that americans would want go to war - something FDR was pushing for for years.

The only remaining hope for a restoration of freedom is to allow the remnant the room to keep the light of liberty alive in the hearts and minds of students and the only way to do that is through homeschooling.

By MrLiberty

April 7, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Anyone can teach, but it takes a truly special kind of person to become a government-approved and certified teacher.

Walter Williams put together some statistics a bit back that likley havent’ changed. According to the various testing services, students who list “education” as their major, score the lowest of any group on the SAT, the second lowest (right behind sociology) on the GRE, and 26th out of 29th on the LSAT. On tests such as the Wessman Personnel Classification Test of verbal analogy and elementary arithmetical computations, the teachers scored, on average, only slightly better than clerical workers. A rather low score was enough to pass. Yet half the teachers failed. No, this is not every teacher, but before we go praising the institution for performance it cannot substantiate…

Then they must be the type of person who can put up with the indoctrination programs that make up the remainder of a “state certified” education program.

Yes, this column correctly points out that classroom management and course preparation are not the kind of things one can easily pick up, but one must remember that government schools are designed to be indoctrination centers where individuals are disciplined down to the level of subservient and obient good little citizens. Control is the key to destroying the individual. Parents appreciate the value of homeschooling because individuality is meant to be retained.

Expertise on subjects can be communicated by anyone who truly cares. Yes, there are some situations where little or nothing is being taught, but these exist in govt. schools as well and nobody is accoutable for these children either. Those parents who wish to take on the responsibility (the one that is supposed to be theirs in the first place), should be allowed to - period.

This is all about control. The sooner you wake up and realize it the better it will be for all children. The government selects the curriculum, the books, the subjects, etc. It is “their” version you learn, and it makes it that much easier for them to perpetuate the lies when you get older.

Two quick examples. The Depression. You learned that is was cause by greedy businessmen and the unsustainability of the free market. In reality, just like today, it was caused by massive government spending and credit bubbles caused by the Federal Reserve and its non-stop printing press. Do you know any better now? I didn’t think so.

WWII - You were told that Pearl Harbor was a “surprise” attack, but Roosevelt was already bombing Japanese miliary positions in China and had imposed a blockade against all shipping interests in what FDR’s own secretary of war said was “an act of WAR”. Those men at Pearl Harbor were sacrificed so that americans would want go to war - something FDR was pushing for for years.

The only remaining hope for a restoration of freedom is to allow the remnant the room to keep the light of liberty alive in the hearts and minds of students and the only way to do that is through homeschooling.

By HS Teacher Too

April 7, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

Okay people, let’s get something straight: you can’t compare private and public schools’ cost-per-pupil. Private schools have neither the BS (bureaucratic systems) nor the mandated spending (such as special education) that factor into these cost calculations. If there were a way to get truer figures for public schools, then this would be a fair comparison. Until then, to borrow from lovelyliz, this is apples and oranges as well.

Mr. Liberty, nice to see you back here. I usually disagree with you, but it’s refreshing to see the other perspective every once in a while. I couldn’t agree more with you when you said, “Expertise on subjects can be communicated by anyone who truly cares. Yes, there are some situations where little or nothing is being taught, but these exist in govt. schools as well and nobody is accoutable for these children either. Those parents who wish to take on the responsibility (the one that is supposed to be theirs in the first place), should be allowed to - period.” In fact, I expressed the same sentiment earlier today.

On a side note, I also have to agree that too many of the people I’ve encountered in my life who were “education” majors were morons. People major in “education” because it is perceived to be “easy.” If that’s not indicative of a problem, then there’s a whole lot else wrong besides that!

Mr. Chips, sorry you have had such a bad experience. (*Most teachers cheat to get certified, or they barely pass the criteria, and then torture young people for years and years with their own feelings about specie-heirarchy while they compare children to birds or dogs. Then they spout anectdotal evidence to justify their ignorance and incompetence. *) I’d like to say “sucks for you,” but really, if we’re going to use that language, it sucks for all of us: teachers, students, and society. I’ve been fortunate to have had some amazing teachers (who more than made up for the occasional nimrod). I hope my students one day think similarly of me — as a good teacher, not the nimrod!

By Julie

April 7, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

I just hope that those of you on this blog who don’t know the proper use of there, their or they’re are not homeschooling anyone.

By HS Teacher Too

April 7, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

Julie, There ought to be a way to tell them they’re setting a poor example for their children!

(This is a pet peeve of mine as well. I share your frustrations.)

By Penguinmom

April 7, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

First, today’s homeschooling is much different than even 10 years ago. It is no longer just a mom sitting at the kitchen table with her kids. Today, the picture can include learning co-ops, private classes and other enrichment opportunities.

My husband and I teach high school level classes at a once-a-week homeschool academy. The parents have realized they do not have the knowledge in a particular subject area (Math or Science usually) and have enrolled their children in order to have the subject explained well. My sister teaches Earth science and upper level math at a weekly co-op in SC.

In all these cases, the parent is still the main teacher, making sure assigments are completed, proctoring tests and over-seeing the student at home during the week. In the once-a-week class, topics are explained, help is given on problems, tests are graded and assignments for the whole week are given.

Also, today’s high school level homeschool textbooks are written directly to the student. They are very conversational and take the place of having a teacher standing there talking to you. In a lot of cases, the parent has the option of purchasing a CD-Rom with actual lectures on it.

So any subject that a parent doesn’t feel qualified to teach well, they have options today that still allow the homeschool environment while covering the material well.

Someone earlier mentioned not being qualified to teach Calculus. Seriously? How many students need Calculus? I’m a math major and I needed it but those students who are going to be business or history majors don’t even need the information taught in Algebra II except to pass the SAT. (I teach Algebra II so I know how many of the topics anyone uses in their every day life - used the quadratic formula recently?)

As a homeschooler, I would love for every homeschool parent to be doing an awesome job. I would also love all public school teachers to be doing an awesome job. Neither is the case. Some homeschooled kids are behind and are lazy. Some public school kids are behind and are lazy. Some homeschool parents love learning and get their kids excited. Some don’t. Some public school teachers love learning and get their students excited about their subject. Some don’t. (I tutor kids who have certified public and private school teachers that don’t teach the material in an understandable way.)

Homeschooling is not a perfect solution for everyone. Public school is not either. We need to let the parents decide what is best for their particular child and keep the government out of that decision.

By Penguinmom

April 7, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

One final point, sometimes kids are homeschooled because of learning issues. These can be learning disabilities or ADHD issues or other various physical problems. These kids are getting one-on-one attention which is exactly what they need for their disability. Are they going to be behind? Probably, but that is going to be true even if they were in school.

I have a friend with a highly intelligent son who can’t read well. He has vision problems, right/left brain connection issues and was even tested for possibly having petit maul seizures. He could not survive in a regular school environment because he is so far behind in reading ability. But he wouldn’t do well in special ed with because he is so far ahead in actual information and understanding. She had never planned on homeschooling but it was obvious when her child was younger that public school was not going to be an option. She doesn’t have a bachelor’s degree but there is no one who could have been a better teacher for her child over the past several years.

So, when you think of homeschooling, realize there is a very broad spectrum just as there is in any educational environment.

By marye

April 7, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

I have taught in the public schools for 6 years, and am leaving the profession when this year ends. I cannot stomach it anymore—and it’s not the kids—it’s the bureaucratic BS that teachers have to put up with—from the state and the school administrators. I have friends who home school their kids and they do a great job at it. Some parents who say they “homeschool” park their kids in front of the TV, while they go about their own lives. These parents suffer from LBS-Lazy Butt Syndrome! I know this because one of my students this year was taken out of school because mom wanted to homeschool her. She reappeared in my class in January because mom decided it was best for her. She is so far behind the other kids in my class. I asked her one day what she did while being homeschooled and she said her mom made her watch TV so she could go to Walmart and shop. Yes, some people can homeschool but other certainly can not!! I do not believe people need teaching degrees to home school—they just need tons of common sense and a love for their child’s future.

By Martha

April 7, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

I’ve taught for almost 40 years…I love it. The government bs is ridiculous, I agree. I also agree that today’s education majors are, for the most part, the bottom of the barrel. There ARE excellent ones out there, but they are few and far between. I’m fortunate that I don’t depend on my salary for my living, but until a teacher can be paid for an outstanding job, I am afraid the caliber of teachers will continue to drop. I can kill myself doing a great job, but I get paid the same as the guy showing videos everyday?

I told my own children, who both graduated with honors from hig school, college and grad school, that if they went into education I would not pay for one dime of their expenses. No way I’m encouraging them to deal with the problems in today’s education industry.

Until things change, the quality of teachers will remain the same.

By Martha

April 7, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

I’ve taught for almost 40 years…I love it. The government bs is ridiculous, I agree. I also agree that today’s education majors are, for the most part, the bottom of the barrel. There ARE excellent ones out there, but they are few and far between. I’m fortunate that I don’t depend on my salary for my living, but until a teacher can be paid for an outstanding job, I am afraid the caliber of teachers will continue to drop. I can kill myself doing a great job, but I get paid the same as the guy showing videos everyday?

I told my own children, who both graduated with honors from high school, college and grad school, that if they went into education I would not pay for one dime of their expenses. No way I’m encouraging them to deal with the problems in today’s education industry.

Until things change, the quality of teachers will remain the same.

By middleschoolteacher

April 7, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

Martha, All three of mine are teachers even though I tried to dissuade them! However, one was a Presidential Scholar with a full tuition scholarship in college. The other two are both identified gifted with one being valedictorian/STAR student. Both had multiple academic scholarships.

All three love what they do, but it is increasingly hard to take the negative opinion that is so prevalent in society today regarding education.

Back to the question - Homeschool leaders should certainly have a minimum of a high school education.

Should homeschooled students be required to take the yearly tests that other students take to measure achievement?

By MrLiberty

April 7, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Just remember, the high teen pregnancy rates, pathetically low graduation rates, drugs, gans, and incidents like Columbine and others are all examples of public school socialization. Meanwhile some folks actually find it to be a bad thing that most homeschooled children can interact well with adults. Here’s a thought, maybe homeschooled children actually grow up, while kids who only learn how to behave from other children remain as children. I mean, who do you really want your kid learning morality, values, etc. from? A government employee, the kid down the street from the broken home, the 9 year-old girl who is going on 15 (if you know what I mean), or you?

How many hours a day does your kid spend with “them”? How many with you? Add to that the television and who really seems to be the bigger influence on who your child is becomming? Ever wonder why they seem more and more like a stranger every year?

Don’t worry, they are becomming “good citizens”, ready to take their place working for all the kids who were homeschooled or went to private school.

Just a thought - their your kids.

By Elizabeth

April 7, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

I am a teacher who has a 6th grade boy in my class who has been home schooled until this year. The boy cannot read, do basic math like multiplication, write and has no clue how to work with others. Yet No Child Left Behind says that I will be responsible for advancing that child’s skills. He was home babysat, not home taught. I do not have the time or the training to teach this child to read or to do basic math. This is child abuse. The boy will never catch up to his peers and will most likely be a burden to taxpayers for the rest of his life. Yes, pareents who want to home schol should be held accountable and be required to prove they are qualifiedto teach their children. Otherwise, I have to deal with the mess and told that I am incompent because the child did not improve.

By MrHughes

April 7, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

Who needs Calculus for the real world?

Energy shortage - That matters to me http://math.jbpub.com/calculus/resources/fuel.pdf

A explanation of why tailgating is dangerous - Everyone drives a car… Do you like high insurance premiums. http://math.jbpub.com/calculus/resources/heavy.pdf

That sounds like people who say “why do you need math because everyone can use a calculator?” or “Why teach spelling because it’s in the dictionary?” We wouldn’t have the mortgage crisis we do now if people knew how to read and had a basic understanding of math. It’s doesn’t take an exceptionally bright person to realize that an interest only mortgage and constantly refinancing your house isn’t a bright idea.

Let’s say we stop teaching Calculus because everyone doesn’t need it, or it’s not necessary to pass the SAT. Then where are next generations scientists and matheticans going to come from? Geometry helps with angles and building things. Forget it, I’ll just waste a small forrest of wood trying to make the correct cuts or buy it at IKEA right? You don’t need art, music, or a football to pass the SAT, but those are proven to improve morale and students’ aptitude in their studies. It’s sad that an “educator” thinks otherwise…

By Charles

April 7, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

Teachers like leaders are born not made. It appears that people who have credentials are threatened, envious, and seek to control those who are able to excel and or succeed without credentials. The prevailing myth is that people are intelligent only if they have credentials. To require children to attend a public school unless they’re enrolled in a private school or are taught by someone with a valid teaching license is an effort to propagate the myth and control the thinking of Americans.

In the history of Black Americans in the United States, Marcus Garvey and his organization, the Universal Negro Improvement Association, UNIA, was on the cusp of liberating the masses of black people via building institutional power. Marcus Garvey was blessed with a love for reading, but didn’t have the credentials to satisfy the so-called Negro Intelligentsia, W. E. B. Dubois, PhD, and the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, NAACP. Marcus Garvey was thereby threatening to expose the prevailing myth.

W. E. B. Dubois believed black people could be liberated via integration. Marcus Garvey believed black people could be liberated via building institutional power. History has proven Marcus Garvey to be correct in his assertion, “I and my program are more valuable to black people than a thousand Dubois’”. Credentialed people conspired against Garvey along with the powers that be in the United States to circumvent real freedom for the masses of black people even to this very day.

The ideal is to have teachers and leaders with God given natural ability and credentials to boot. But that combination rarely occurs. Nevertheless, one natural born teacher and leader blessed with the love of reading in our country is more valuable to students than a thousand credentialed teachers that lack God given natural ability.

By high school teacher

April 7, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

I could be wrong, but I think in this case that homeschooling was a scapegoat. The parents were ordered to send their kids to school because the Christian company with which they are affiliated (Sunland Christian) was considered a non-credible licensure by the judge.

While I agree that parents should have a minimum of a high school diploma, I don’t necessarily see the need for one to have a degree to homeschool. Yes, I am a public school teacher, but this ruling scares me.

By catlady

April 7, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

Penguinmom, calc is the gateway (basic) class for all at UGA. Need pre-calc? You are remedial.

I am happy for folks to homeschool. They would not be happy in the public schools, so let them keep their children home. Some do a great job. Many do not,in my experience. What I WOULD like to see is that homeschoolers must pass some basic test before being admitted to public school (for the ones whose parents quit for whatever reason). Then put them in the grade they test into. I have seen, too many times, kids come in who were 2-3 years behind average in skills, but whose parents are sure (because they have WORKED with them), that their children are geniuses! If you are going to homeschool, then DO IT!

By momof3

April 7, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

I believe it all really comes down to the parents and individual situations. Parents shouldn’t do what Elizabeth said and we have yearly tests for homeschoolers to do as required by the state to make sure these kids are on track. I don’t know how this kid got by. Maybe the parents did the tests for him? It’s really the parent’s responsibility. If parents are good at chemistry, biology, calculus, algebra and reading etc at a high school level, and diligently have set aside school time every day, I see no problem. It comes down again, to individual responsibility. We can have a capitalist attitude about it, and let people make their own decisions and accept the responsibility for their freedom to do as they wish, or have the socialist method, which is get gov’t involved. I don’t like the gov’t telling parents what to do with their own kids.

By Magenta

April 7, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

I understand the impulse that some parents feel to keep their children at home, but even back in “the olden days,” kids who learned at home were taught by a professional tutor who either came by periodically or, more commonly, lived in the home. These teachers had a broad base of knowledge in numerous subject. Wouldn’t it be interesting to go back to such a system? It would serve the dual purpose of keeping the kids home, and freeing the parents to take care of other responsibilities. It would also be interesting if suddenly, both parents wanted to go back to work, leaving the teacher in charge of the kids for a few hours a day. Then you’d have in-home day care, and we would have come full circle.

By Dragonlady

April 7, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

Catlady, I really like your idea. Make a homeschooled child take a test to determine grade level before s/he is admitted to a public school

I, too, have seen homeschooled children admitted who are so far behind their classmates they will never catch up.

And the reverse is true: I have seen others who were ahead of their classmates. They will be fine.

But the ones way behind will never make it.

By luvs2teach

April 7, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

I, for one, like more choice for educating one’s children, and I know that the one-size-fits-all mentality that drives most public school policy and decision-making isn’t a good fit for everyone.

I have met wonderful homeschooled kids who are comfortable with adults and self-motivated to learn. They are, for the most part, gifted to the point that they wouldn’t fit into a public school setting very well - why? Because they LOVE and VALUE learning, ironically (and quite sadly) enough.

I have also had “homeschooled” kids put in my classroom that were woefully undertaught - who knows what their parents were doing, but it certainly wasn’t teaching them anything.

I think some sort of checks and balances type system might be necessary to rule out abuse, and to make sure that the students are being taught something approriate, but I don’t think that demanding parents have a teaching certificate is the way to accomplish it. I would also like parents who choose to homeschool to sign a waiver, so if their kids ever do come back to school woefully unprepared, it doesn’t fall back on the school system (AYP, NCLB and other BS, LOL). I agree not to take credit for your child’s success, if you agree to accept responsibility for their failure.

Final Thoughts:

1 - If the only things you ever learned were only things you learned in school, then you have led a sad, sheltered, uneducated life.

2 - Even though I chose public school education for my children, I home schooled every day - I reinforced at home what they learned at school - and then some…I didn’t leave their education solely up to the schools.

3 - the main problem most people seem to have with the public schools is the public itself - how do you all propose to fix that?

By HS Teacher Too

April 7, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

Penguinmom,

As a matter of fact, I did use the quadratic formula just today. And no, it wasn’t because I was teaching it. The Supreme Court used it in an antirtrust analysis in a case I read. So, even your HUMANITIES MAJORS kids who won’t “need” to take math in college will encounter it — in the most “unexpected” of places. I say this because I can’t count how many of my law-student-colleagues have said they wanted to be lawyers because they didn’t like mathy/sciency stuff.

I equate experience with calculus with such other things as knowing how to find the parts of a flower, or how to diagram a sentence, or knowing which states were part of the Confederacy, and why. I don’t use those skills or facts every day, either, but they make me well-rounded and educated. More importantly, the logic and reasoning processes I learned as part of learning those other things are invalable to making me a better student of the world.

But that’s just me. I’m with Mr. Hughes on this one.

By em

April 7, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

The entrance requirements to schools and colleges of education in Georgia are so low almost anyone can be a teacher. Although one may become a teacher, it does not mean one can teach.

By Science Teacher

April 7, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

I am a 30 year old teacher who will finish her Ed.D in June. I have taught for 7 years and have thoroughly enjoyed it, except for all the government bs. I think that homeschooling is fine as long as the parent is being held accountable for what they are teaching. I also agree that not all teachers are good teachers and should get out of the field. I am sorry to those who have encountered the “por” teacher. I love my job and I think it shows in my daily work ethic. There is not a day that does by that I am not at school until 6:00 or later because I care about my students and I care if they learn. For those of you who have talked bad about teachers, please remember that there are some who REALLY care!

By Science Teacher

April 7, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

I am a 30 year old teacher who will finish her Ed.D in June. I have taught for 7 years and have thoroughly enjoyed it, except for all the government bs. I think that homeschooling is fine as long as the parent is being held accountable for what they are teaching. I also agree that not all teachers are good teachers and should get out of the field. I am sorry to those who have encountered the “poor” teacher. I love my job and I think it shows in my daily work ethic. There is not a day that does by that I am not at school until 6:00 or later because I care about my students and I care if they learn. For those of you who have talked bad about teachers, please remember that there are some who REALLY care!

By lovelyliz

April 7, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

This former teacher aced the ASVAB and that’s not easy to do. I also scored well enough on the SAT to get into Dartmouth

By eleteach

April 7, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

In reference to Mr. Hughes post from 11:31:

Perhaps there has been success with the TAPP program. I’m not familiar with the stats. However, of the 6 TAPP teachers with which I’ve worked, not one chose to teach because of their heart’s desire as you mentioned. All were there because they weren’t able to get a job in their field. 5 of the 6 walked out mid-year. The 6th one quit after her third year to return to her original field of study.

Substitute teachers should not need to have a teaching certificate as they are following the lesson plan and assigning work based on the wishes of the teacher. Are you kidding me??? Nice thought but clearly not reality. Sadly, this is often not the case, although it should be.

“The main point that is overlooked is that these people are supervised by the school and have rigid standards that they have to follow. The truth is that they are looked at much more closely than the average educator with a certification.” I’m sorry Mr. Hughes, nice thought on paper, perhaps these statements somehow make the parents feel a bit more comforted, but absolutely not true. The follow through and mentoring is poor at best. Perhaps this supervision actually takes place at some locations, but be advised, it does not happen for many of those participating in these programs.

I’m sure there have been success stories, and I will say that for those people signing on to these programs who really have a heart to teach can certainly be successful; however, I would argue the exact same point for homeschooling parents.

As far as testing homeschooled children and placing them in the grade in which they test-out… I’ll get on board with that as soon as we can do that for all of our public school students!

By Penguinmom

April 7, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this

I didn’t say we should stop teaching Calculus, just that not every student needs it. No one should decide against homeschooling because they can’t teach Calculus to their kids. Obviously, kids who are going into scientific fields need to learn higher level math.

For the rest of the people, I think in most cases basic Logic skills and an ability to look things up is going to be sufficient for most things you need to know in adult life. Even the examples given can be understood at a top level without most of the upper level math. It doesn’t take Algebra II to know that constantly refinancing is going to be a bad idea. It takes common sense and a basic understanding of interest and principle. I don’t need Logs to know that a car depreciates and so is not a sound investment. Or to know that higher interest more often will be a better investment.

For most kids a well-rounded economics course including home and business accounting would serve them better than Pre-Calc or Algebra II.

I can honestly say I’ve never graphed a parabola or hyperbola in my regular adult life. I’ve also never found the inverse of a function or solved a trig identity in regular day-to-day life. I’ve probably used geometry more often than any other upper-level math. (Not geometric proofs but the formulas)

I enjoy math personally but I’m a geek. I teach because I can explain the math in a simple way most kids understand. They are required to have 4 maths and these are topics they need to know for the SAT. I still think it’s a waste of time for those of my kids who are going to go into non-scientific fields. They are not going to remember these skills because they are not likely to use them ever again.

By Penguinmom

April 7, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

As for testing homeschoolers, we are required to give a standardized test to our kids every 3 years starting in 3rd grade. The state doesn’t get the results but we have to keep them available on file. If the state wants me to test more often, they would need to pick up some of the expense. I have to pay between $35 and $50 each time I test my kids. That price is if I administer the test myself. If I paid someone else to do the testing, it would be even more expensive.

Do you really think testing is going to show anything besides how well a parent can prepare their child for the test?

I also have trouble believing that the homeschoolers entering public schools are the only ones who don’t have a grasp of basic skills. Are ALL of the public school kids reading at grade level and completely up to speed on ALL of their basic math skills?

I don’t condemn all public school teachers because of the few kids who don’t/won’t learn. Homeschooling parents shouldn’t be condemned because there happen to be lazy parents in homeschooling life just as there are lazy parents in public school life. Adding extra regulations on to the good homeschooling parents isn’t the answer just like adding extra regulations on public school teachers is not helpful.

By JustMe

April 7, 2008 7:04 PM | Link to this

Can anyone be a teacher? It entirely depends on how you define a teacher.

In some schools (private and public), a teacher may be just a warm body to baby sit the kids. An adult to watch what happens to document when a fight breaks out. Almost anyone can do this.

In other schools (private and public), a teacher is one that expects to teach content. An adult that understands pedagogy, various teaching methods/styles, and so on. An adult that can management the classroom well and maintain a learning environment. Few people can do this.

These are the two extremes. Take your pick.

By SAMMI

April 7, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

Interesting fact….I once taught in a private school which is accredited and has a fine reputation. They would NOT hire a certificated teacher. One had to have a degree in the subject he/she would teach, but classes taken for certification were frowned upon.

By Zedd

April 7, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this

What scares me is the Totalitarian undertones of this ruling. What I do with my kid’s education is none of the Government’s business.

By carrie

April 7, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

MrLiberty, in reference to your 2:55 post, before you go insulting an entire profession’s intelligence, maybe you should learn proper grammar. “Their your kids.” should read “They’re your kids.” And, yes, the 2nd graders that I teach at a public school do know the difference in there/their/they’re.

By the way, if you’re curious, I graduated in the top 5% of my high school class in a state other than Georgia (so you can’t just insult GA’s public high schools) and went to a private university on a full-tuition academic scholarship, and I chose to make my career teaching elementary school, so you can take your self-righteous, insulting attitude somewhere else.

By Tony

April 7, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

The question, “At what point should a parent stop being a child’s only teacher?” Is invalid. A parent stops being the only teacher of a child as soon as another human being enters the observable space of the child. There are many ways in which children act as their own teacher, too. When given toys, the child creates play and learns from that. The moment a parent lets a child watch television, the parent has abdicated some of his/her teaching role. The point is that it is impossible to ever claim that a parent is a child’s only teacher.

Regarding the California Court ruling, I truly hope it is overturned. As a public school principal, I firmly believe in parents’ rights. The federal government has gradually increased its control over our daily lives such that it is only a matter of time before this right is taken away. Local boards of education used to make all the decisions about schools - not any more. All decisions are moving to Washington with lip service paid to state Capitols.

By nopublicschools

April 7, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

Home schooling is the way to go. Better quality instruction, one on one tutoring. Public schools are too strict with all this zero tolerance BS and kids can’t do anything or some overpaid, arrogant principal or worthless school board will suspend them.

By Tony

April 7, 2008 10:04 PM | Link to this

An interesting report for those who like to bemoan the “failure” of our schools.

By queen

April 7, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

I have taught for 13 years and I wish that some parents would home school their children. I have excellent classroom management skills( I have only sent 6 kids to the office this year)but even I get tired of the laziness,disrespect, and defiance. What parents really need to teach kids at home is how to act. Once you do that then I will do the rest. Too much time is spent on managing behavior. Parents send their bad kids to school to keep others from learning and then teachers are bashed in the media when little Johnny can’t read. Little Johnny can’t read because he along with his buddy little Eric are keeping everyone else from learning. Parents believe what teachers tell you about your kids.

By queen

April 7, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

I have taught for 13 years and I wish that some parents would home school their children. I have excellent classroom management skills( I have only sent 6 kids to the office this year)but even I get tired of the laziness,disrespect, and defiance. What parents really need to teach kids at home is how to act. Once you do that then I will do the rest. Too much time is spent on managing behavior. Parents send their bad kids to school to keep others from learning and then teachers are bashed in the media when little Johnny can’t read. Little Johnny can’t read because he along with his buddy little Eric are keeping everyone else from learning. Parents believe what teachers tell you about your kids.

By FayetteMom

April 8, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this

We homeschool in Peachtree City. We used the public schools until our eldest was in 5th grade, and realized that the social atmosphere of our local middle school was deplorable. All 3 of our children were reading before they started public kindergarten. They are now a freshman in college (SAT score 2230), a junior in high school (SAT score 1960), and a freshman in high school. We do not sit in our house all day by ourselves, with no one to socialize with. Most homeschoolers are active in tutorials, co-ops, and other classes. The ones that come to the public school are not the typical homeschoolers but rather the unsuccessful ones. Last time I checked, there are many children that have been in public school through 12th grade, and can’t get a job because they don’t have the basic skills. If we don’t know the subject, we learn it with our kids. Oh, my kids have great test scores, good friends, one is in college, and they did it despite the fact that I DO NOT HAVE A COLLEGE DEGREE of any kind. I did go for 2 years but never finished (good grades just wasn’t ready to be there). I do plan to go back in a couple of years.

By JB

April 8, 2008 1:03 AM | Link to this

Teachers are born and not made by any number of degrees behind their name. A child’s first teacher is their parent and there is no reason to believe that a parent would not do a better job teaching their child than some teachers. However, I do believe that the parents at least have to take a Basic Skills Test as well as have routine check-ups by the state department(s) to ensure that their child is at the level of his/her peers. I myself am about to enter the aforementioned TAPP program myself after having spent the last year as a math tutor at the middle grades level. Previous to that I had worked the last 4 years in and around education but never as a teacher. I have students and parents who regularly state that I do a better job than their teachers who have master’s and have taught for any number of years. After having worked in education, I never wanted to teach because I saw too many cases of teachers who gave the profession a bad name and were clearly just there for the check. I can get a job in my major but I just do not have the passion for it that I have for teaching. I want to build the foundation that gets my students to the next level as well as repair a few shaky foundations along the way! The pay is not the greatest but what do you expect when you only work a little over half of the calendar year?

By lovemy4kids

April 8, 2008 2:38 AM | Link to this

This topic is near and dear to my heart. After reading all of the thought provoking posts, one could conclude that humans are unique and there is no perfect way to educate all. Humans are imperfect and will not always do the right thing, even for their children or their students. But who is it that is morally and financially responsible for that child? It is not the State! Who will reap the reward if the child is successful and the shame if he is not? Is it not the parents? And if Caesar’s image is on the coin, to whom does it belong? Yet it is written, “So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.” To whom do our children belong? For those who teach children, whether parent or hireling, do you have a millstone about your neck? Take heed!

By SCY

April 8, 2008 7:31 AM | Link to this

Should parents have the option of educating their children as they see fit. It seems quite undemocratic and un-American for the state to dictate how and when children should be educated. Is this America or Soviet Russia?

And I’m a teacher…

By Old School

April 8, 2008 8:03 AM | Link to this

I’ve had the honor of watching a few of my former students become amazing CTAE instructors after spending 10 to 14 years in industry. They are more than competent in their fields and it is obvious they love what they do. The majority of their students seem to have picked up on the enthusiasm and expertise of these young men (well into their 30s now but still young to this 34 year veteran) and are truly learning. So do I think teachers are born to it? These young men are also wonderful, involved parents so my answer is yes. Their teaching seems to come from deep within some nurturing, loving, giving part of themselves. All came to teaching after becoming parents.

Do I think ANYONE can teach? Perhaps. There are those people I’ve encountered over the years that do connect with students others have written off. They may not fit with the mainstream view of what a teacher should be but I probably don’t either. And yes, there are those people who should never have been given the first contract or who have “burned out” and should move on. But isn’t it the same in the corporate world? In the service industries? Ever had a surly waiter?

Am I for home schooling? Yep. Having the choice puts a great burden on the parents and they must join their children in accepting the responsibility and the consequences whatever they may be. I have family members who were homeschooled and are sadly lacking in very basic academic skills but who also have a very strong work ethic. I just hate that they will be content with low level jobs.

This old world is a great big classroom and the teaching/learning should never stop. It’s also big enough to allow home schooling, public and private schooling, good and bad schooling. The real choice is an individual one, isn’t it?

By tomiswho

April 8, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

Cummon all y’all, we gotta teach them there youngins more better! (@¿@)

By Hugo

April 8, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

“Experts say parents are a child’s first teacher.”

Well thank goodness you experts have your own experts to reveal to you an expert finding that all peoples, of all cultures and times, seem to have found for themselves. What next, state-mandated classes in parenting? Oh, I forgot.

“At what point should a parent stop being a child’s only teacher?”

At what point should a teacher stop being a parent’s only hireling? At what point will the NEA—-in this legal case, the CTA—-stop trying to control the definitions of e.g. “education” and “teacher”? For that matter, at what point will the NEA stop eating children for breakfast just to belch pay raises?

By high school teacher

April 8, 2008 10:11 AM | Link to this

OFF topic for a second, but I felt compelled to respond to JB: The pay is not the greatest but what do you expect when you only work a little over half of the calendar year?

Let me assure you that if you want to be a good teacher you will work for the entire calendar year, even when you are not paid to be at school!!

By luvs2teach

April 8, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

high school teacher - I saw that quote and laughed so hard coffee flew out of my nose…why? Because I am sitting here, on break, grading stuff, researching a project I want the kids to do, and updating my class blog (as well as blogging here, of course).

Last time I checked, my “on the clock” days were more like 3/4 of the working calendar year…of course, if you look at raw numbers, 191 is 52% of 365 - but (almost) no one works 365 days! Most degreed professionals are “on the clock” 251 days (365 - 104 weekend days, and 10 vacation days). My calendar of 191 days is 76% of 251, so there you go.

BTW - I am an alternately certified teacher (Georgia Responds program and West Georgia) and I’m mentoring a TAPP teacher. Both programs were very indepth, and lengthy. In my opinion, my “supervised internship” was far more effective at preparing me than a traditonal student teaching situation would be. Why? Because with traditional student teaching, you come into a room where the class dynamics are already set - the discipline plan is some one else’s. The procedures are someone else’s. It doesn’t give you enough of what you need to be successful in classroom management when you’re on your own.

My experience and the TAPP teachers at my school have been very successful, but I know that’s not true for everyone. I’d be curious to see the success rate for alt. certs. to trad. certs. - there are a lot of tradtionally certified folks who find they can’t make it either.

By ald

April 8, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Ok, this topic gets me going. I have several friends that home school, one of which is doing an outstanding job. Another, not so great. Her 9 year old doesn’t know how to tell time or how to do simple math. Now that I have said a 9 year old, let us get to the testing that is done for a 3rd grader. This child that I’m speaking of scored as well as a high school student, yet she can’t do the basics. When asked how the test was given, she said that her mother would ask her the questions until she got the right answer. Well of course she will score great if that happens. What can we do about these children? NOTHING? I’m not saying the “government” should control our household, but do we not care for the children that are really left behind? I also agree that this does happen in public schools as well, but when a parent can abuse a child with no one looking, well we have a serious problem. You call the school board and they have no jurisdiction over the home school curriculum, and the board of education tells you to call the social worker for the district. My main problem with any of this, is that it is not the parents who will be punished in the end, it will be the children.

By tomiswho

April 8, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

for “high school teacher” - no you are not a “good” teacher if you work for free. Teachers are professionals (well, most of them…) and should not “give away” their talents any more than an attorney or doctor. If you want to work for free, become a missionary for your church! And quit buying supplies for your classroom too! You work there, it’s NOT your responsibility to finance the school beyond your normal taxes! You should feel no personal guilt if your students have to “do without” because it is the school boards responsibilty to secure the financing to operate your school! If teachers want to be respected (again) and treated like “real” professionals, more of them need to begin acting like one. (@¿@)

By Hugo

April 8, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

Does anyone here have any sense of how much one must “Get Schooled” before one can tolerate the condescending absurdity of the assertion that “Parents Are Teachers Too”? The legal doctrine of in loco parentis means that the authority and legitimacy of the teacher derives from that of the parent, and not the other way around.

I fear your minds are so enschooled that you can’t see that schooling is also an ideology. It’s like trying to explain water to a fish!

By luvs2teach

April 8, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

Interesting perspective, tomiswho - many people want to dog on teachers because we don’t work the same days as other professionals. We’re supposed to suck it up because we “chose our jobs” and we “have the summers off.” Oh, yeah…and because “the taxpayers pay our salary” - I forgot that one.

Refreshing.

By high school teacher

April 8, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

tomiswho, I think you may have misconstrued my point. What I meant is that teachers must do off the clock preparation for their classes. I’m not tutoring kids free of charge after hours; I’m just grading papers and preparing lessons, even in the summer time. We only get 50 minutes a day for those tasks.

Do you really think that I am a non-professional because I buy my own printer cartridges for my classroom printer?

By luvs2teach

April 8, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

Hugo - relax - of course parents are teachers - in the parenting sense of the word. The topic is about whether parents who want to home school - to act in loco doctor so to speak - need to be certified as such…and most of us, teachers and non-teachers alike, agree that that’s not necessary.

We are however concerned about the quality of some homeschooling* and the possibility for abuse. That concern stems, not from being teachers, but being members of a society of which these child are members of as well.

By thomas

April 8, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

What people don’t realize is that when people homeschool, many times it is NOT because they think they can do a better job than the public schools. They may say that. But it is really for idealogical reasons. Many people homeschool because they want to teach their children things that are not (and will not) be taught in the public schools. They also want their children brought up in a certain social environment.

I am a certified, experienced teacher. Yet, I believe that if a parent wants to homeschool, I say we let ‘em. I believe that I am certain that have more knowledge and experience in regards to the actual pedgogy of teaching (reading, English, mathematics, science, social studies, etc.), but still believe that the average parent still should have the right to homeschool. They probably could teach, at least at the elementary level, the basics their child needs.

The reality is that the home plays a greater role in how children perform in school than one might think. Those students who get “good home support” generally achieve higher than those that don’t.

By tomiswho

April 8, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

HST: yes.

By Hugo

April 9, 2008 3:03 AM | Link to this

loves2teach,

Do NOT presume to instruct me to “relax”. You might peddle such psychodebilitating condescensions in a homeroom, but they make for ridiculous ad hominem rebuttals to an adult argument.

I should’ve thought it obvious that I was rejecting the manner in which most of you address the day’s topic. I can only describe that manner as a radically arrogant naivete.

Your last message exemplifies this mode quite succinctly.

By luvs2teach

April 9, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this

OK, Hugo, don’t relax - I don’t care. I thought I was responding to your argument in an “adult” way - I also thought I got your point - clearly I didn’t. Too bad for me - too bad for you that your argument was obfuscatory.

Oh, for the record, I don’t have an education degree - I have a science degree. I teach because I like it and I’m pretty good at it. It’s a good gig. I don’t subscribe to much of what the educational establishment promotes as dogma. I teach in my neighborhood school and I do my best to improve my little corner of the world. What have you done lately?

By Penguinmom

April 9, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

Hugo,

While it would be great to live in a world where parents were obviously considered the child’s primary teacher, that’s not the reality today. Actually, it would be Awesome to live in a world where all the parent’s even Wanted that responsibility or acted on it even in a small way.

You may disagree with the premise behind the article but sometimes you have to enter the paradigm in order to make your argument understandable. Using your example, you have to enter the water in order to get the fish’s point of view before you try to explain anything.