Get Schooled

By Thomas

April 3, 2008 7:50 AM | Link to this

It sounds like DeKalb is doing the norm: giving lip service. I would bet that nothing beyond their slogan will be done at all. Why? Because most school systems fear law suits and the publicity that goes along with them.

The “leaders” (and I use that term loosely) in these large school systems are too concerned with protecting their own job and don’t have time to worry about anything as insignificant as the students. Instead of “Let them eat cake” it is “Let them have slogans.”

By jim d

April 3, 2008 8:03 AM | Link to this

It’s the parents fault!

Now that is out of the way let me say that nothing is going to totally eliminate bullying in schools full of adolescents with raging hormones. Well nothing short of closing every school in the country. I’m not even sure it can be minimized when you have young ladies that are expierencing mood swings that take them from Sandra Dee to Bi-ch in .0006 sec. and young gentleman that are by nature attempting to establish a dominance in a pecking order.

Mother nature at her best I suppose.

By catlady

April 3, 2008 8:17 AM | Link to this

It isn’t just large systems. Schools are in a bind: they cannot get rid of the bullies (gotta provide them a FAPE, gotta keep them in school because of NCLB), the schools are already providing counselors (altho not of the magnitude of professionalism that these kids need) and social workers. Many of the kids come from homes rife with “inappropriate interactions” among family members. There is no money provided to put them in an alternative school, at least at the age they need to be removed, which is increasingly in the lower grades.

So they get a slap on the wrist: brought in the office and counseled, and then, even angrier, they go out and seek revenge.

We have said, here in Georgia, that we will not tolerate bullying. We even have a toll free tip line. But until bullies are taken out of the general school populations until they can learn ways of dealing with their feelings of anger, worthlessness, or whatever, the other kids are at their mercy. Something could be done, but no one has the guts or resources to put an end to it. Bullies see that it works—it gets them their props—and so they continue.

Now, in my experience, some kids cry “Bully” who have, through their own behavior, brought on aggressive behavior from others. The kid that teases and teases and then cries “bully” when the other kid gets mad and has had enough, for example. Or the kid who, if looked at wrong, accuses the other of being a bully. But most of the time, IMHO, bullying does happen and needs to be dealt with. Unfortunately, as in other kinds of crime, it seems that the deck is stacked against the victim.

50 years ago my cousin was being bullied. He could not get help from the adults in charge, so he took a baseball bat to school and when the bully came after him, he took care of the problem.

My younger daughter was being bullied. She reported it to the school. I reported it to the school. When the boy came after her again, she grabbed his “rat’s tail” and PULLED IT OUT. She got in trouble, but he never bothered her again. In fact, no one bothered her after that.

It should not have to come to that.

By Jeff

April 3, 2008 8:19 AM | Link to this

How do you stop a bully?

How do you stop an army?

Same question, same answer:

By being stronger, smarter, and more devastating.

Nothing SCHOOLS do can prevent bullying. It will happen. It is a fact of life.

The only way to not be a victim is to be a predator of predators.

He pulled your hair? Pull his OUT.

He threw a piece of paper at you? Put the teacher in a position to catch him doing something worse.

Brinksmanship at its best. Remain cool and aloof, but push all the right buttons. He’ll get caught, and you did nothing wrong.

By Gwinnett Educator

April 3, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this

My former Dekalb county school did NOTHING about bullying. I spent 1997-2007 in the same school. Trust me, I had a 2nd grader who did NOTHING but terrorize his classmates and me. A phone call from his mom (who was calling from jail) was allowed to be transferred to me so she could “go off” for taking another child’s word over his. (mind you, he kicked that girl in the leg SO hard that day and I witnessed it). He was FINALLY suspended for that action, but mother said she would just keep him home. But what is one day? How about all the other children he constantly tormented AND this was documented by me and the specials teachers. By the way, this was a 2nd grader.

I feel that bullying will NOT stop or at least reduced down until adminstrators stop acting scared to suspend children who do these things.

I wont even mention what a 6 yr old in my present school has been doing to her classmates, teachers, and adminstrators.

By Jeff

April 3, 2008 8:24 AM | Link to this

FYI:

Momania is talking about CRCT prep today y’all. I anticipate a lot of crossover between the two, but we’ll see…

By Todd

April 3, 2008 8:24 AM | Link to this

Hmmm … this is a repeat question. Same ones everyday.

The answer is simple: when a thug child gets in a fight, gets written up by the teacher, or gets 8 disciplinary actions in one year, the kid needs to get KICKED OUT.

If we would stop harvesting these thugs in our schools, the good kids would be better off.

Education is now babysitting, daycare, free food, and early social services for the soon to be pregnant 9th graders who tell their teacher they are pregnant solely so they can get EBT.

Kick the kids out when an 8th grade boy smashes the head of a 6th grade kid numerous times in a bathroom while a fellow 8th grader films it on his cellphone—don’t just them them 3 days ISS (in school suspension).

Do we see where I am going with this?

By Filster

April 3, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this

Quid pro quo may not be the best way to handle a bully (what if he or she is a lot bigger and stronger than your child). Instead, I’ll pass along something my mother taught me. Bully’s only bully to get a reaction, to make themselves feel superior. If there is no reaction, then most bullys will move on (those that don’t are dangerous and that’s a different story). Tell your child that after the bully has had their say, to stand there looking as bored as possible (a yawn is a good thing) and ask tem “Are you done yet?” It should deflate the bully, although there may be a couple more trys to get the desired reaction. Once the bully looses control of the situation, they move on or, in some cases, decide thay actually like the kid who stood up to them and become friends. Not all bullys are jerks, some just have very poor social skills and could use a little help. Of course if the bullyis physically assaulting your child, asking them if they’re done is ridiculous and that’s a time for the police to become involved.

By JustMe

April 3, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this

jd - Well, at least you got the first sentence right. If parents would do the proper job of parenting their child, there would be no bullys to worry about. But, bad parents allow their child to grow up thinking that violence of any type is okay.

So, once again, schools are to step in to parent children and to stop bullying.

By John

April 3, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this

I was small when I was in school, but I could deliver a punch to the ribs that would make you wonder if you’d ever be able to breath again. Bullies found this out the first time they tried anything with me.

By Jeff

April 3, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this

cat:

Gotta agree with you about the kids that bring the bullying on themselves.

Back in Randolph, I had a kid named Tom^. Tom would get picked on incessently, but much of it (though not all) would be because he would actively antagonize the bullies. Only when I saw that he was NOT antagonizing them and yet was being picked on would I step in.

I said the same thing to kids that would pick on my youngest brother, and I told him as well: If bro is running his mouth and you feel the need to put him in his place, do it. Just be aware that if I think you were TOO rough, you’ll answer to ME. Mom and Dad never really taught him to shut his trap, and this was my way of allowing the natural course of things to help him learn control. I typically applied the same philosophy in the classroom. If the victim of bullying was being an idiot and bringing it on himself, I let it happen and didn’t say a word. I might advise the bully to do better about not getting caught if the action was flagrant and I HAD to say something. HOWEVER, if the bullying was clearly unprovoked, I came down as hard as possible on the bully.

By Larry

April 3, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

If you put disclipine back into the schools, there wouldn’t be this problem. But some pansy parent didn’t like that Johnny’s principal padddled his behind. Then you had the generation of “I don’t spank my child, we talk”.

What we are seeing right now is a direct result of not disclipining our children. They can have whatever they want, act however they want, and there are no consequences to their behaviour…..

By Thomas

April 3, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this

Todd is right. But, if a child is kicked out of school, then those parents (that aren’t parenting) will be the very ones to bring a lawsuit to force the schools to take their little brat back. After all, even those parents don’t want to be around their little devil and need the schools to baby sit.

The path of least resistance for the administrators is to release these PR “slogans” against bullying, and do nothing else leaving teachers to handle it (like everything else). This way, the administrators can claim to have taken action against bullying.

Yeah, that’ll stop it.

I also want to point out that this is a major difference between public and private schools. Private schools can legally kick out students. After all, it is private. Public schools are at risk of law suits and so on due to the laws in place.

Want school vouchers or tax credits? Then be prepared for your private schools to deal with all of this crap that public schools must deal with!

By eleteach

April 3, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

I agree with Jim… there’s always going to be a certain amount of bullying, no matter what schools do… however,

a few years ago when my sons were in middle school, my youngest was in a class with 2 EBD students who mainstreamed with no additional assitance to the teacher. While the teacher attempted to keep things somewhat under control, or at least to a minimum, when there was a substitue, these 2 students went completely out of control. One of them hit my son three times (twice in the cafeteria and once in line on the way back to the classroom). The teacher knew about what happened in the cafeteria, she simply attempted to separte the two. When he hit my son in line going back to the room, my son hit him back. The two proceeded to get into it. When questioned, other students told similar stories. However, both were suspended. My son was supposed to receive 1 1/2 days in in-school suspension and the other student received 3 days out-of-school suspension (not because of his part but because of the # of offenses he had prior to this incident). After speaking with the AP myself, my son ended up with 1/2 day in-school.

When the AP said to me, “He should have walked away.”. I told him I agreed but added the question, “How many times can we expect a 12-year old to walk away? He did the right thing twice and nothing was done.”

I know that not all EBD kids are this severe and I’m not against them mainstreaming. But this kind of behavior happens everywhere and not just with EBD kids. While the root of the problem starts at home, the behavior is constantly overlooked because many teachers & administrators don’t want to deal with them or deal with their parents, or add to the statistics of the school. I actually taught at a school that would only see a certain # of offenses each month b/c they didn’t want to have to report them.

To suggest that having the students take some pledge is going to work toward solving this problem only shows just how out of touch these people are.

By V for Vendetta

April 3, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this

LOL, I just KNEW that this topic would get Jeff all worked up. We can only wait to see what else comes out of his mouth. :-)

Were you ever actually IN the military, Jeff? Or are you just one of those guys who sits in front of the TV watching the History channel and getting off on the war shows?

Sorry, I’m just being mean. :-)

Let me be serious for a moment. In an area such as the one I teach in, a formerly good place that’s been on a rapidly quickening downward slide, this issue is quite serious. What used to be solved with angry words, some pushing and shoving, or maybe a quick punch, is now solved with all out brawls usually involving members of gangs. People like to pretend gangs to frequent the schools in my area, but that’s just ignorant pretense. One must be careful when choosing one’s opponents or moment to stand firm.

The reality is there are far too many dangerous kids in schools now to go standing your ground in a glorious showdown as Jeff suggests. I prefer a more practical approach. First, do everything in your power to avoid the fight. Talk your way out of it, exchange words, attempt to reason. Secondly, if that fails, and a threat is made, report it to the most intense admin or teacher in the school. Most schools have at least one or two who will take punishments to the max, and a serious enough threat can get a kid expelled. Lastly, if all else fails, make them wish they hadn’t picked on you in the first place.

I know this last part sounds stupid, but bear with me because I know what I’m talking about:

If they invite you off campus for the fight, don’t EVER go. It’s better to fight in school where the possibility of them being armed is much lower. If you go off campus, then you very well could find yourself looking at the shiney end of a knife or a gun.

These are the times we live in. No longer can a quick scrap solve the problem like back in the day. Now you have to worry about your life.

By Steve

April 3, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this

How do you stop a bully?

How do you stop an army?

Same question, same answer:

By being stronger, smarter, and more devastating.

Nothing SCHOOLS do can prevent bullying. It will happen. It is a fact of life.

The only way to not be a victim is to be a predator of predators.

He pulled your hair? Pull his OUT.

I agree with Jeff. Schools can have all the slogans that want, the do-nothing school administrators can give lip service to fixing the problem. But from my own personal experience, when I was 12 years old I was bullied by an older kid for weeks. Literally terrorized daily at school and after school. When it finally got the point where I couldnt take it anymore, I resolved the problem on my own with a baseball bat. The bullying stopped!

By Anonymous Administrator

April 3, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

I have dealt with this issue repeatedly as a school administrator. It IS possible to put a stop to bullying. However, it is extremely time-consuming and difficult compared to what most administrators do, which is check out both sides, give a warning to the bully, tell the victim not to bring it on, and then forget about it.

The way to stop a bully is for an adult in charge (AND with the requisite authority to back up consequences) to sit the bully down, say, “I know exactly what you’re doing and you’re not going to get away with it,” and then impose serious consequences, including notifying the parent, as well as out-of-school suspension if the bullying involved physical assault and/or threats of it. (This applies K-12.) There also has to be a clear warning immediately that any retaliation will be dealt with even more severely than the initial bullying. Once you’ve followed through on this, word spreads through the student body like wildfire. You will have a few other students who have been suffering silently from bullies start coming forward to identify them. I have never had an instance of a false or malicious setting up of someone as a bully who did not, on investigation, actually turn out to be a perpetrator.

If you’re dealing with a special ed. student, you have to follow some additional steps, which may include holding a hearing to determine if the behavior is a manifestation of the student’s disability (as opposed to garden-variety jackass behavior).

(I have only had ONE set of parents in 10 years who accepted that what I told them their child was doing had in fact occurred and told their child in front of me that it had to stop.)

The next time it happens, the consequence has to be even more serious. Then you call the parents in and tell them that if a pattern of behavior emerges, you WILL make a referral to the alternative school in the district, and if physical assault occurs, you WILL bring in the police, if you’re dealing with middle or high schoolers. (Expect major fireworks at this point. Calls will be made to the superintendent, the school board, et al, identifying you as someone who is “victimizing” their child, demanding your being removed from being able to discipline that child and another administrator to be assigned to that child. This is probably exactly what will happen, unless you have a strong superintendent who will back up his/her principals. Very few of those when faced with this type of situation.)

If you’re an AP, don’t expect any of the other administrators in your building to follow your lead. Expect a LOT of teachers to roll their eyes and say, “well, kids are kids,” “Bullying is just part of school,” etc., etc. If you are an AP, expect to be called into the boss’s office and told not to interact with that child anymore, and not to be such a stickler. Expect the AP with the least backbone to be assigned to the bully. Expect to be labeled as a “problem” employee if you do it again.

If you are the principal, you have a much better shot at success, unless you have a spineless superintendent and/or an interfering board member who will take up the bullies’ parents’ cause. I have successfully driven out several bullies because their parents took them out of my school rather than allow them to face the consequence of being transferred to the alternative school. This means you probably won’t be a long-term principal in that school if you’re in a small town, because it engenders intense animosity and political maneuvering by the parents whose kid gets his/her just desserts.

By V for Vendetta

April 3, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

Eleteach,

I disagree. I think EBD kids ARE that severe and don’t need to be educated around other children. Your son’s case is a perfect example of that.

Education should NOT be a right. Just repeat it over and over and maybe people will get it through their heads.

By JENNY

April 3, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this

If the teacher cannot see it, she cannot do anything about it. Bullies are sneeky and quick. They usually do not get caught. Jeff has a point but where do you stop? Defend youself as best you can, if you are caught be prepared to QUIETLY face the consequences. Then calmly explain your situation. If this happens enough and you remaincalm when dealing with the authorities hopefully they will catch on to the fact that you are not the problem. Tell parents and let them talk to the officials st the school. Tell the authorities at school, a school counselor, a trusted teacher. They can and should document the issues. Then if and when something happens, they know you are not the problem. That being said, I go back to my first comment. Bullies are sneeky and quiet, chances are they will get away with it for a while at least.

By Jeff

April 3, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this

V:

I’m probably the closest thing to a civilian soldier you’ll ever know.

Only reason I never went was timing. I’ve been in the recruiter’s office, scheduled to come back the next day to sign the dotted line when something else comes along so many times I’ve lost count. (The most memorable actually directly led to where I sit now. I was scheduled to go sign the line one Thursday morning in early January 2006, and I was sitting at lunch with my grandmother on Weds afternoon when I got the call from Newton asking me if I could be there at 9a the next morning for an interview. I went to that interview, was told I was going to get the job, and the rest is history. Hard to believe that was more than 2 years ago!)

I’ve also had many close friends where the timing worked the opposite way, and a few of them are in Iraq or Afghanistan right now.

One friend of mine back at KSU was actually a Marine Recon sniper. He’d be up and gone for months at a time and all of a sudden he’d reappear with new war stories.

The only thing that an active duty soldier has on me is that they’ve experienced it first hand, and I’ve learned it from a text book. (Which I’ll admit that when it comes to combat situations, even I defer to the guy with actual experience. HOWEVER, in the absence of such a man, you’d MUCH rather have a guy like me on your side than some average guy.)

By catlady

April 3, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

JM, it isn’t just kids growing up in violent homes. The kids I know are bullies have someone (parent or older sibling) that continually assaults them verbally: “you are stupid”, “you can’t do anything right” etc. They internalize this behavior, and want to show they DO have power, they ARE worth something, SOMEONE wll fear THEM. So they get their props by showing that they can enforce their way, can get attention (sometimes ever admiration).

Do I think the school should solve this? No. I think the school should NOT ALLOW it, but that is not the same as solving the underlying problem. The parents should be forced to get little Johnny some help. But DFACS or the court certainly aren’t interested in taking on requiring family counseling, so what we have to look forward to is little Johnny’s kids coming to school with the same attitudes in a few years. Schools should deal with the manifestation of the problem. We have enough to do without trying to “fix” bullies and their homelives.

And of course, NCLB does not give a lot of help either. We don’t want to be labeled a persistently dangerous school, and we need the kids at school to count for AYP (altho why attendance should be a measure of a school’s effectiveness is still beyond me?) Can anyone say why this measures school effectiveness any more than, say, children being cavity free?

Our principal’s stated philosophy is to “save up” the ISS and out of school suspensions to near the end of the year. She believes that we need to have our most powerful punishments last. I posited, however, in faculty meeting, that if we used these things early in the year, PERHAPS WE WOULD NOT HAVE SO MUCH BAD BEHAVIOR ALL YEAR. That is, we would get our message across that bad behavior would not be tolerated, and save ourselves the escalation of the bad behavior throughout the year. For example, why should assaulting another child be “worth less”, punishment-wise, in September than it is in April? (You can bet she loves to work with me because I ask these questions)

I think the power lies with parents on this one. If your child is the victim of bullying at school, complain loudly and file police reports. Consider taking out a peace bond, if that is appropriate. Be sure the administrators know you are holding them responsible for correcting the situation. Notify the central office. Until parents force the issue, the school may not feel a sense of urgency about assertively handling it. (And be prepared TO LISTEN if the school says your child is provoking the incidents—it does happen). And if the school offers to move YOUR CHILD to a different room, tell them to move the other kid. Your child should not be the one to have to switch, unless you think it would help (like in a room with multiple aggressors). Just remember the grass is rarely greener….

By JENNY

April 3, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

Speaking of Bullies, has anyone seen that Lindsey Lohan movie Mean Girls? I rented it just to see if any of the girls that used to torture me were in it. Bullyin is much more than physical assault, it is emotional abuse at it best and there is not a darn thing to be done about that. If your kid is getting beaten up at least they have physical proof. Emotional abuse is hidden.

By eleteach

April 3, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

V:

When I say EBD, as you probably already know, that label can encompass many disabilities. In the case of my son, they should be sent to an alternative school or self-contained classroom at the minimum. But I’ve had some very sweet EBD kids in my classroom who just had odd or quirky behaviors and would have been eaten alive in a self-contained classroom or alternative school atmosphere.

By Anonymous Administrator

April 3, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

Catlady is correct that administrators are more likely to act if parents push the issue. I tell parents of victims that their child as a CIVIL RIGHT to attend school without being harassed or bullied. When I was a principal, if the central office pushed back, I raised the civil rights issue to support my line of action. It gets people’s attention.

By V for Vendetta

April 3, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

I doubt that I’d want you on my side, Jeff. No offense, but a trigger-happy, wannabe-soldier doesn’t sound better than a level-headed, intelligent civilian.

Catlady,

I think you’re right on point, but I would go one step beyond what you’ve said. Anyone who teaches knows that ISS and OSS are meaningless punishments to the types of kids who get routinely sent there. They don’t care. ISS is merely an inconveniance and OSS is a vacation from school. Now, most school REQUIRE teachers to let students make up work missed while OSS. This is pathetic.

I’ve often said we need a three strikes and you’re out rule in public schools (if they are to be saved). For most kids, it is not difficult to make it through four years of high school without getting written up AT ALL. Even when you take a silly mistake into account, that leaves most reasonable kids with two more chances to get it right.

But after three mistakes, I feel the student should be EXPELLED PERMANENTLY. Talk about an incentive to behave. At the same time, this would quickly and neatly get rid of the repeat offenders. Of course, for any of this to work that would assume that a school or a county would actually have a backbone. Right, like THAT will ever happen …

It’s a shame, really. A relatively simple solution could change so much for the better.

By Joseph

April 3, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

If bro is running his mouth and you feel the need to put him in his place, do it…never really taught him to shut his trap, and this was my way of allowing the natural course of things to help him learn control…If the victim of bullying was being an idiot and bringing it on himself…

“running his mouth”? You mean like speaking his mind? And where exactly would ones “place” be? And who decides what “place” belongs to whom? “Shut his trap”?! Victims bringing it on themselves?!

Are you a real idiot or do you just play one on this site? Beating someone up because they said the wrong thing is the “natural order of things”? This behavior is acceptable to you?

THIS attitude, that violence is excusable if the victim “brings it on themselves” by being incredibly annoying, is the reason that bullying persists and will always exist. Parents like Jeff who see violence as an understandable and acceptable solution to minor annoyances.

By catlady

April 3, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this

AA: your comments are remarkably refreshing. Our system selects admins that “know their place” and won’t do anything about these things.

By Theresa

April 3, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

Hold the parents accountable for their child’s behavior. Your kid can’t act like a civilized human being, they deserve to removed from the school. My child’s education should not be impacted by constant disruptions in the classroom by some bully. After the kid is kicked out, they should be sent to a school specializing in problem behavior, at the parent’s expense. Learn your lesson, you can come back to school. Until the schools make it inconvenient for the parents of these bullies, nothing will happen. I believe the same should apply to the little beasts who can not keep their mouths shut and their butts in their seats on the bus. Act up, bully someone, or put my child at risk - you are off the bus. Now mommy or daddy is going to have to drive you. Again, make it inconvenient. That is the only way the parents are going to take it seriously.

By Jeff

April 3, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

Joseph, poor Joseph:

You can be prey or you can be a predator, but every single thing on the face of this planet is one or the other.

There are two approaches to not being bullied, and I advocate both:

1) Keep to yourself. Don’t throw paper at another person and expect them not to throw paper back, or worse. Don’t call them names and expect them not to call you names, or worse. You’re in school for one reason and one reason only, and that is to learn as much as possible so that you can be as successful as possible in life. Friends at this stage are irrelevant.

2) If you ARE attacked and did not provoke it, respond in as quick, decisive, and devastating manner as you possibly can. This fulfills a two fold mission of ending the current attack and ensuring that it never happens again. A solid punch to the throat (if the opportunity presents itself) sends a clear message that you are NOT one that is to be tangled with lightly. You can then go back to keeping to yourself and ignoring all others.

Speaking your mind in a class discussion, when your mind is not targeting another student, is GREAT and is to be encouraged. Speaking your mind when you are thinking that another kid is goofy in someway only leads to retaliation.

By hellinahandbasket

April 3, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

bullies should be expelled and never able to return. its sad that those trying to do right in school have to endure years of harassment, physical and mental abuse because the schools think its just ‘normal kids stuff’, if these were adults it would end up in court. the reason you have some kids retaliate with guns and violence is because they are frustrated and scared and they’ve asked for help but no one listens. i had a neighbor whose kids did this to mine and we tried all the nice stuff…talking, etc. trying to work things out but the kid and his parents were uncooperative, they didn’t care it gave them power to think they could abuse others (including the small animals he tortured and killed) so finally we just banned them from our yard so he and his parents both would ride back and forth in front of our home yelling nasty remarks, stealing stuff from the mailbox and hiding near the creek in our back yard to yell more insults. the one and only time we called the marietta police, nothing was done in fact the police chief at the time, stoner, said that i should just get a life and quit causing trouble ! here me and my family are being harassed and the police do nothing. finally we had to move and we were harassed the whole time, the bullies would steal the yard signs, the sale brochures from our yard they would continue to harass our children getting on and off the bus and at school. although we couldn’t prove it they punctured/flattened 6 tires on our two vehicles and egged our house. the police and school still did nothing…finally we moved. but 2 years of our children’s entire childhood was marred by this criminal behavior, they had to watch their backs when ever they wanted to ride their bikes or play in the yard as the bully and his family would harass them. there was no help from the school or the police…and if we different people we would have taken matters into our own hands instead we had to run and i can tell you that running from a bully may make you safe for a while but the humilation lasts a long time. so never again…if someone tries to bully me i call them on it and if they attack me then they better be ready because i will not go down peacefully or quietly this time and neither will anyone else in my family. they push and push until they back you in a corner and then are shocked when you react. bullies need to understand that they may seem to win at first but in the long run they will lose big time.

By def

April 3, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

“How do you stop a bully?” You kick his/her a—!. And No, it does not make you the bully..you didn’t start the fight. We have wussified our children so much that they can’t even defend themselves. And the wussie school won’t do anything because they are too afraid of being SUED by the BULLY!

By NICK

April 3, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

Bullying, like teen pregnancy, will unfortunatley, never go away.

DeKalb County is a JOKE!

Vernon Jones is a JOKE!

Make all the “pledges” you want, but in this day in age, black kids don’t have the ballz to fight each other one on one. They aren’t “squaring off” in the parking lot after school… They just shoot each other instead.

By Snuppi

April 3, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

There was a bully in my daughter’s fifth grade class, very disruptive type. He sat behind my daughter in class, and tormented her all year. I complained to no avail, by God this kid was “autistic” and gonna be MAINSTREAMED. Well, one day he took some shears during an art class and cut off my daughter’s hair at her neck (about 15 inches of hair!!) and scratched her badly on the neck. Did the adminstration do anything? Heck no….”It will grow back”. So my daughter had to get her remaining long hair cut short because of this f*** cretin. And then his parents had the nerve to complain about MY complaint about their little subhuman.

But I got the little punk back. He couldn’t keep his hands to himself and had a nasty little habit of coming up behind girls (fifth grade, remember) and unhooking their bras through their clothes. He did that to my daughter and I took the afternoon off from work to file sexual assault charges against the kid. The school administration tried to talk me out of it but I insisted the police be called. Little punk was removed from school the next day.

Lesson learned? Don’t report it as a “violent” incident…find a way to report it as a “sexual assault”. School administrators will move Heaven and Earth to avoid having to increase the number of “sexual assaults” on a school’s annual report card.

By FarLeftLoons

April 3, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Liberals have let bullies run the schools. Their solution is to “talk to the bully” or “discuss your feelings.” Same approach to international diplomacy, by the way. When I was in high school I dealt with bullies and I always tried the reasoning approach, but it NEVER worked. Nothing short of an a$$-whooping kept the bully off my back, and that worked EVERY time.

By DB

April 3, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

I agree with Snuppi — if the bullying is egregious enough (past the vanilla name-calling and middle-school b.s.), then a well-placed lawsuit works wonders.

In 5th grade, my son was the victim of a known bully - would grab his glasses and throw them in the grass, trip him, etc. The kid had issues. One day the kid exploded and threw my son up against a brick wall. My son didn’t tell me, and I didn’t find out until he complained of a headache that night and I got it out of him. After a trip to the hospital to check for concussion, I was in the principal’s office bright and early the next morning, demanding to know why a) I wasn’t informed (it was in a very public setting), b) why he wasn’t checked out by the school nurse, and c) what was going to be done. The principal tried to hem and haw, and said, “Well, the other child has to have due process …” and I reached for my cell phone and hit 9-1, and said, “I can hit 911 right now and show you due process. Do you REALLY want to explain an assault-and-battery charge to the officer who is going to show up here in ten minutes if I finish this phone call?” Amazing how fast things happened after that. :-)

My son was the latest in a long line of victims, and, I’m proud to say, the last — after this incident, the bully ended up in a school for ED kids, which was the best place for him.

By jim d

April 3, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

When children are picked on by bullies, whether physically or mentally, many feel the need to suffer in silence for fear that speaking up will provoke further torture. But bullying is not a problem that usually just takes care of itself. Action needs to be taken.

Parents and caregivers(read teachers) are sometimes reluctant to intervene in conflicts between children but they can teach children not to take part in—or become victims of—bullying. Children can be taught to assert themselves effectively. As a caring adult, you can:

Demonstrate assertive behavior. Teach children to ask for things directly and respond directly to each other. It is OK to say “no” to an unacceptable demand. Let children role-play with puppets or dolls.

Teach social skills. Suggest ways for children to compromise or to express their feelings in a positive way. Show children how to resolve problems firmly and fairly.

Identify potential friendship problems and correct them. Teach children how to ignore routine teasing. Not all provocative behavior must be acknowledged. Teach children the value of making new friends.

Teach common courtesy skills. Teach children to ask nicely and to respond appropriately to polite requests.

Identify ways to respond to bullies. Help children identify acts of aggression, bossiness or discrimination. Encourage children not to give up objects or territory to bullies. This discourages bullying behavior.

Demonstrate the rewards of personal achievement. Teach children to trust and value their own feelings. They will be more likely to resist peer pressure, respect warm and caring adults, and be successful in achieving their personal goals.

One last thing I personally saw to was that my child be taught how to defend himself. He was also taught when to use those skills and when to walk away. The self confidence alone is enough to stop most bullying.

By DB

April 3, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this

V, we’re on the same page with the 3-strike rule.

Education should be a privilege, not a right. Abuse the privilege, and it is withdrawn. It’s so damn easy, when you don’t clutter it up with it’s-society’s-fault crapola.

By SET

April 3, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

Snuppi has an important point. When the bullying is Male on Female it should always be regarded as sexual and compulsive and reported everywhere as a sexual assault. The system if programmed to act on those complaints and sanctions are available against responsible authority who fails to react.

In CA Stalking is a felony and even if reduced to a misdemeanor can carry lifetime registration as a sex offender at court’s discretion. You have got to see the reaction on the males who are arrested for following around a love object or trying to find her after being warned away - upon being told they have a high bail offense and sex registration is being sought. They really don’t know how draconian the law is now - and the cops often don’t know either. If they are working a case with a low status victim they will arrest on misdemeanor comtempt of court charges when somebody violates a stay away order. If they are working a case with a high-status victim it’s felony stalking time.

The trick for the parents of the girl is to make sure their daughter is treated as a high status victim - that means you complain bloody murder to the highest ranking people you know until somebody lights up the authorities and solves your problem for you.

Other than that sometimes applied violence works like a charm. All girls need combat and weapons training. It will be essential when things fall apart in the cities.

By FarLeftLoons

April 3, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

jim d, that’s the kind of liberal, “pie-in-the-sky” crap that gets us nowhere. Sounds good, and probably makes you feel good to say it, but bullies (school and international) laugh in your face and keep bullying.

By Wags

April 3, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

I think there should be more separation in schools. Smart kids should be with other smart kids. Dumb kids with dumb kids. Violent kids with violent kids. This idea that it is the burden of good students to pull up the bad ones is pure crap and is proof of the laziness of the parents first, and the schools second. It is a great example of how it is everyone else’s responsibility to make sure the lazy and stupid of this country are successful. It is the right to the PURSUIT of happiness not the guarantee of it!

And the lawsuit thing is out of control. We need to get back control of the courts. Lawsuits about your kid, who has a file large enough to fill a drawer at school, getting kicked out should be thrown out of the court. At some point the decent people of this country will revolt and we won’t have this issue or many others because common sense will finally prevail.

This is definitely a parenting issue but until we’re willing to put teeth to an accountability process for parents, it will continue. It is unfair to look to the schools to always do the job of the parents. They are already underpaid and struggling to get the slow children of Georgia to learn math, let alone reverse the behavioral trends that have been established in the homes since birth. So good people revolt! Hold elected officials responsible! Hold the court system responsible! That is the only way anyone will ever do anything about any problem - threaten their power or their money and you’ll get their attention.

But far too long the good people of this country have remained silent on many an issue. Apathy, in this regard, comes home to roost in the form of a bully messing with your kid. Be proactive instead of having your kid suffer while determining how to be reactive.

But in the end, I am a fan of some of what has been said already. They hit you, beat them into submission. They throw a ball of paper at you, hit them with an entire ream of paper. Eye for an entire body in my opinion. I have no patience for parents who raise kids who refuse to allow others to excel just because they won’t or can’t. And if it is their little terror child that ends up paying the price for their inadequate parenting, so be it. But it won’t be my kid dealing with it or doing the work of the parent to make other kids feel better or successful. Take up your responsibility or leave, I don’t care but it isn’t my responsibility and it definitely isn’t my kid’s.

By Katie

April 3, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

You can only be bullied if you allow yourself to be bullied. We teach people how to treat us. Simple behavior modification.

By catlady

April 3, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

Sometimes, of course, calling the police does little good. For example, in my small town the police seem to be reluctant to act on a parental complaint if the school does not call them. I’d call them anyway, and be sure to get the name of the investigating officer, etc. Be obvious about your notetaking. I believe it is possible to swear out a warrant yourself if the police won’t take an investigation seriously. In our small town, going to the newspaper also can help. Also, your child can help identify other kids who are being bullied by the same person. Going to the school board, especially if you can get several parents together, can be effective. I agree with calling it sexual assault if there is a gender difference. Also, using the idea of civil rights violation charges might help. Just a simple meeting with the teacher and principal sometimes won’t take care of it. And take it from a teacher—most of us would be GLAD for parental involvement on this—we complain about lack of follow-up and substantive action by administration on this also. Parents have more power than we do to get something done.

I think there is a difference in opinion about what constitutes bullying here, though. While you can be bullied once, bullying frequently involves a pattern of continued, escalating incidents. Children have disagreements which are not bullying. These should still be handled appropriately. But bullying (unprovoked verbal or physical aggression) is INFLICTED upon a person.

Parents should demand that aggressive students, EBD or not, be removed from the class, rather than the continued merry go round of “warning” and “counseling”. Don’t be afraid to make a stink. Don’t be put off by “we can’t do anything about it.”

I personally am tired of the needs of the majority being trampled upon by the relatively few. And we give folks little credit for their ability to learn to behave differently. Even an ID kid can learn NOT to do certain things at school, if given the correct reinforcement (positive and negative). Very few of us or our students come from the perfect home, with the perfect life (unless they live in Affluent East Cobb). Yet, we learn how to control our impulses so we can get along in this world. I am really tired of the excuses we hear that are supposed to mean that folks who don’t do better get a free pass to continue to not do better.

I regret not calling the police 4 times during my three children’s time in school. Parents need to be very assertive in demanding that bullying behavior be stopped.

By Scorpio29

April 3, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Kick the Shyt out of the bullies a*…and you’ll have a best friend for life.

By SET

April 3, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

Wags: There is separation in the schools. It is called, “good schools” and “bad schools”.

“Good” schools have good people in them. “Bad” Schools have bad people in them. And I’m talking about staff as well as students.

It’s Simple, really.

By jim d

April 3, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

Lefty,

The only place where everyone is always nice to each other is Heaven, and you first have to die to get in. But as long as you are alive, there are going to be all kinds of bullies — schoolyard bullies, pre-school bullies, teen bullies, adult bullies, workplace bullies, sibling bullies, parent bullies — and you need to learn to deal with it. How do you do it? In order to turn your bullies into buddies, you have to treat them like buddies – even when they treat you like bullies! That is what the Golden Rule is all about!

For victims of bullying It is effortless to stop being bullied if you know the rules. Here’s a link some may find helpful

By V for Vendetta

April 3, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

Jim D, you’re right on about responsible parenting and social responsibility. Kids need to learn from a young age what is acceptable and what is not. It doesn’t always work, though.

WHen I was younger I had a cousin who had obvious emotional and behavioral problems. He was five years younger than me and a great deal smaller than me, and I rarely saw him. When I did, inevitably he would end up hurting me, my sister, or one of my other younger cousins. (My aunt and uncle had enrolled him in karate to “get his aggression out.” All it did was make him more of a physical nuisance.) He’s in jail now.

People can do little to help a child when the parenting falls flat. There’s only so much you can do. I think Catlady is right, the best way to deal with school bullies (as a parent) is to force the school into some kind of action — make the spineless admins and principals take action.

On a separate note: Jeff, my friend, you’re not having one of your better days. I had a feeling this topic would get your hackles up. You’ve already told us how young you are, that you’re an armchair military wannabe, and that you have a violent temper. How about just sitting this one out, eh? My estimation: you’re 5’7”, 150 pounds, last picked at kickball, and you have A LOT of pent up rage about it. :-)

I’m really not trying to be mean, I’m just trying to help you out a bit!

By Jane

April 3, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

Bully behavior is not new - I was subjected to it when I was in school and had to find a way to handle the situation that best fit my personality. No, I did not enjoy the bullying but no one can stop someone from taking crap from another individual except the person being picked on - in their own time, at their own pace. We have to make our children realize that it is alright to stand up for themselves. I always told my son (now 30) you better not start anything but you better finish it - should it be brought to you. He never started anything and because he knew he could finish it with my approval - he never had to go there with anyone because his friends and classmates knew he could finish it with my blessing.

He did try this with my grandson and at 8 yrs of age the grandson had to finish it - the school was more interested in punishing my grandson for standing up for himself than in the bully that started it all. After my son met with the administration of the school and the parents of the other child, when both boys were questioned about what happened did the story change and the other young man was punished as well. My son was told that “If he had just told the teacher then it would have not come to a visit to the principals office and in-school suspension.”

I firmly believe that tattling on another is as bad as doing it yourself and a major character flaw. You take care of the person between your own two elbows and leave everyone else alone. If you do something wrong fix it otherwise let the other person’s conscience bother them.

By Fully Grown

April 3, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

Funny thing, all the kids that ever bullied me are now either dead or dealing with debilitating disease.

By jim d

April 3, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

thanks V,

Check out the link above to the the Bullies to Buddies web site, it holds a lot of interesting thoughts and concepts. Actually I’m hoping everyone will take a day or two to try to absorb some of this information, although I’m pretty confident anyone that would lay 100% of the blame on parents won’t take the time.(know what i mean?)

By John

April 3, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

What age is a good age to tell your kids to handle the bully themselves, that mommie and daddy won’t be able to fight your battles when your 35.

By Anonymous Administrator

April 3, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

Like almost all school-based issues, it all comes back, ultimately, to the school principal and whether s/he has the will and the central office support to lead the school the way it needs to be led.

The principal sets the tone and determines what behaviors will and will not be tolerated, whether they are exhibited by students or adults. If the principal makes stopping bullying a top priority, and evaluates teachers on fulfillment of their professional responsibilities by whether they address and deal with bullying and refer it to administration, you can bet your bottom dollar that one of two things will happen: (1) teachers will start dealing with it and the climate will improve for all students; OR (2) teachers will refuse to deal with it and actively undermine the principal. The principal will either be able to force out the resisters, or, more likely, the principal will either be forced out or decide to give up and leave.

School bullying is one of the climate issues that is determine by the adults. Schools are places that are way too strongly focused on being what the adults in power (who may NOT be administrators, but longtime teachers, board members, parents, et al) want them to be.

By Jeff

April 3, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

V:

Try 6’1” 250lb. Not ‘an armchair military wannabe’. Someone who actively trained to go to Parris Island, including getting mentally ready, as my Recon sniper friend had told me that while it was rough physically, the only way you survive there is to have strong mental defenses.

Granted, last time I was in a serious fight (and my hands weren’t somewhat tied by the fact that I was a teacher) was several years ago, but that is because I carry myself as a predator and don’t let people get too close that could cause me harm.

Actually, in KICKball, I was generally picked near the front. My legs have always been my most well-developed muscles, and therefore I was both a fast (if somewhat uncontrolled) runner AND could kick the ball far at a young age. BASEball, different story. My hand-eye coordination was never that great, so I wound up striking out quite a bit. Those types rarely get picked first in that game.

No, the reason bullying gets me so worked up is because the lessons I espouse here are the very lessons I learned the hard way. Pre-puberty, I was the one that the local bullies went after incessently. But then I went through puberty earlier than most of the boys in the neighborhood. You and I both know that for males, that means new muscles (well, much bigger anyway, not technically ‘new’), a deeper voice, and a level of aggression you’ve never known before (among other things). Suffice it to say that before I learned to fully control each of those, several of the (now former) bullies learned the hard way that I was tired of it.

Of course, I DID have the bullies to thank for my kickball prowess. After all, running 1/4 mile home from the busstop as fast as you can every day for fear of bullies tends to make your legs fairly strong!

By The truth

April 3, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

How do you stop a bully? You beat the hell of them. That’s how. If they don’t stop then you beat them up over and over again. Stupid topic for a blog.

By V for Vendetta

April 3, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

We’re all as big as we want to be on here, Jeff. :-) But I believe you. My point is that you seem to crave aggression and relish the chance for retaliation. I’m the first to say if you’re struck, strike back, but I would always prefer the situation to not decline so far. Know what I mean?

By Tony

April 3, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

AA and jim d are both on target. School principals have to have the backbone to stand up to parents, central office staff, and board members when it comes to severe issues of this nature. We also have to do the same when it comes to the insanity of some of the current “school reform” pushed down our way.

By catlady

April 3, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

no one can stop someone from taking crap from another individual except the person being picked on - in their own time, at their own pace

Jane, kind of like the Columbine boys?

We have to make our children realize that it is alright to stand up for themselves. I always told my son (now 30) you better not start anything but you better finish it - should it be brought to you. He never started anything and because he knew he could finish it with my approval - he never had to go there with anyone because his friends and classmates knew he could finish it with my blessing.

Unfortunately, we see this all the time. The parent gives “permission” for the kid to “finish it” and the kid, being immature, thinks that gives him license to whup up on anyone who looks at him cross-eyed. This attitude explains road rage, for example, in adults.

Parents should be teaching other skills, such as negotiation, assertive speaking and body language, and walking away BEFORE they give their little kid the loaded gun of permission to “finish it”. I am not saying kids should NEVER take it into their own hands, but there are MANY other steps that should happen first. Too many parents think they can tell their kids to “defend” themselves carte blanche and the kid will exercise ADULT thinking and decision-making. Oops! Maybe that DOES explain some of the adult behavior we see after all—they are actually little kids who feel “disrespected” and have decided it is okay to handle it with violence! And it is passed down to yet another generation.

By Jonny

April 3, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

I’ve been bullied and I have bullied. Being bullied depressed me and I bullied because I was depressed. Let me tell you, being either one is a miserable place to be. I bullied after I got that talk about beating the bully up. Well, I did beat the bully up and in the process I became a bully… until one of the guys I bullied did what I did to my initial tormentor: he beat me up. And the cycle repeated itself…

The problem is not bullies not getting beat up nor is the problem bullies getting a stern talking to at school. The problem is parents not knowing how to parent and forgetting what it really was like to be a kid. It’s easy for a parent to say, “beat the kid up” when at the dinner table, a decade away from their own personal experience. It’s also easy for the parent to not realize their advice may well be turning their child into a bully.

Bullies come from pathetic parents. Spawn of the pathetic are well represented in public schools. The solution is to pull your child out of public school and enroll him in a school that shares your values. Sure, bullies are there but in far less number.

By catlady

April 3, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

Hey, Tony and AA: could I work in your school?

By Kick @$$ Survivor

April 3, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

Having been bullied myself in elementary and high school in the late 1970s/1980s in DeKalb county by both males and females, I can tell you I wish I had learned that punch that John posted at 0839. This was BEFORE the term sexual harassment had even been coined and I was informed “Boys will be boys” when I complained repeatedly to the teachers or worse, was met with silence and inaction when the teachers clearly saw it IN THEIR CLASSROOM. I was told by my mom, a current DeKalb county teacher, to slug the person, but being an honor student (which alone made me and a few others regular targets for bullies), I was afraid that I’d get in trouble and of receiving worse from the bullies.

I finally stood up to a bully at work at my first duty station and not only did it feel GREAT, but she also left me alone after that. You can talk non-violence all you want but it’s just talk, folks. Until you have been bullied yourself, you have no idea.
You want your child to ward off a bully, you teach them how to kick, punch, or do whatever to knock the crap out of that person. That being said, I am now a successful military officer with 10+ years of pretty darn effective self-defense training if ANYONE attempts to do anything to me now, they WILL be hurting and wishing they hadn’t.

PS. To any posters here who are talking non-violence and helping people out, haven’t been bullied, and were in either the Tucker High School graduating class of 1989 or the Brockett Elementary School graduating class of 1984, where the HELL were you when one of your classmates needed help?! I can tell you. YOU WERE ALL STANDING BY AND DOING NOTHING!!

By Nancy

April 3, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

I like how some people say the school does nothing because they fear lawsuits and the other people say to get things done - you need to file a lawsuit. All of your responses mimic the very pleas of a child in trouble and mirror the problem we face everyday (ie - its their fault! or they started it!)

The school’s hands are tied because ALL children have a right to free and appropriate public education. Until any changes are made that allow for expulsion for repeated violent behavior - then we can only do so much.

But then you can always call the ultimate version of a bully - a lawyer.

By 7 Year Old Educator

April 3, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

I got bullied repeatedly by a rough kid when I was in the 6th grade. One day I balled up my fist and hit him square in the nose so hard that blood flew everywhere. It poured out of his nose. It was hard for the educators to ignor that. I got suspended, and when I came back that kid never even looked my way, much less said anything to me.

By jim d

April 3, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

Sorry folks, but it is just a hell of a lot more fun to make love than it is to make war and I’m 100% positive about that.

By Garry

April 3, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

PLACE ALL KIDS WHO ARE BULLY IN ONE CLASS OR SCHOOL. LET ME DO BULLY TO EACH OTHER UNTIL THEY REALIZE THAT IT IS WRONG TO DO THIS ONTO OTHERS AND UNDERSTAND THEY GO TO SCHOOL TO RECEIVE EDUCATION RATHER THAN HARMING OTHER PEOPLE.

By HTH

April 3, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

My son got in trouble in the Columbus Ga school system in the first grade and they paddled his butt after I consented. I asked that they give him the maximum number of licks. We dealt with his inappropriate behavior at home and sent a clear message that this would not be tolerated using a variety of methods. WE did something about it.

He then became the victim of bullying in years after that. He started taking taekwondo and now when somebody messes with him, he doesn’t back down but in a calm way says if you want to go at it, let’s go. I’m not afraid of you, but if I were you I’d think twice…He’s a big kid now and not easily intimidated. Martial arts has taught him how to “think” differently about agression. The good news is he is no longer a victim or a victimizer. These bullying issues are learned and fixed by good parenting skills. It really does take a village. The schools should send strong messages that this behavior won’t be tolerated.

By Jane

April 3, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

Catlady: You have issues - comparing the Columbine boys to tak