Get Schooled

By Jeff

March 28, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this

Just over 8 yrs since I first started at Kennesaw State, and yeah, I could still get in.

Could’ve probably gotten into a ‘better’ school, but was a joint enrollment student who simply stayed at KSU after I graduated HS. I had already spent 5 semesters over 1.5 yrs there and had a pretty decent life going on, why mess it up to go to a ‘better’ school?

PLUS, I didn’t have all that typical senior year stress of Homecoming (found out about it the day it was going on), Prom (to this day I do not know when my HS’s prom was), college applications, etc. Instead, senior year of HS I was already taking the two classes that led directly to where I am now - Programming 1 and 2. Spring semester of senior year I was already in the job that greatly shaped my professional career - tutoring programming, which I would do for nearly 5 years after that.

I look back at seniors (even my youngest bro, who is graduating in May) and laugh. The smart decision is to do what I did: get Junior English out of the way fall of junior year, pick a school near you, start Joint Enrollment, and stay there after you graduate HS.

By V for Vendetta

March 28, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

I was accepted into every school to which I applied. Even though I was sometimes not the greatest student in the world, I never lost sight of the fact that my education was always leading up to something: middle school to high school, high school to college, college to the “real world.”

I don’t think I can say the same thing about many of my current students. Heck, most them don’t even know what the next DAY will bring — they’re too damn self-centered.

By jim d

March 28, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

I don’t know that all colleges have gotten that much tougher. I’ve noticed thru the process this year that out of state colleges appear to be more than willing to accomodate georgia students and scholarship monies seem to be abundant for kids looking out of state.

The only TS letter the kid has recieved was from one of the military acadamies where competetion is extreme and admittance is terribly limited. Other than that he’s been accepted at 5 others (4 out of state and 1 in ga.) Odds are heavely in favor of getting the hell out of georgia, abandoning a hope scholarship, and accepting an academic scholarship or an ROTC scholarship out of state.

By AmazonRed

March 28, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

I went to school in CA. I applied to 8 schools and got accepted to all 8. I was a bundle of nerves waiting. High school was worse because everyone in the senior class wanted to get into UCLA. There were a lot of hurt feelings and mud slinging when acceptance letters rolled in and most people didn’t get in. A guidance counselor had told me I’d never get in, and I had the last laugh when I did, and decided to go to UC Berkeley instead!

I also concur with V for Vendetta’s post. I was the same way. I was driven and it reflected in the way I prepared for college and the real world.

By MrHughes

March 28, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

I went to college back in the summer of ‘96. I applied to 21 schools and was accepted at all of them. The fat envelope versus skinny envelope thing is flat out wrong. Most schools will send you an acceptance in a thin envelope and send you extra information about orientation and what not later. Envelope size is NOT an effective judge of whether one is accepted or not. Would I still get into the school I attended? It’s was one of the most selective schools in the country back then, and it still is… On the other hand, I had geographic diversity going for me as well as plenty of extra curriculars, good grades, a rigourous course load, and AP’s/joint enrollment classes. Also, I applied early decision, so I’d like to think so.

By Ernest

March 28, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

I’ll be honest, I question whether I would be accepted in my alma mater today with the grades and scores I had when I started. I was accepted during a period when colleges were seeking greater ‘diversity’ in their overall student body. I realized how ill prepared I was after my first tests in my core classes. I also saw how better prepared some of my fellow classmates were and wondered what did they get out of HS that I did not get. I was one of the top students in my HS but found out quickly I was a ‘small fish in a huge pond’.

I’m proud to say I graduated albeit by going two extra quarters. I also was a ‘coop student’ which enabled me to pay for most of my education. It took ‘reinventing’ me as a student and that has continued to benefit me today. I often wonder how things would have turned out if I didn’t get the opportunity to ‘fail or succeed’. I do count my blessings.

I spoke to HS juniors for many years after I graduated, encouraging them to pursue higher education and to not feel sorry for themselves if they fall down. I’m sure many of us have faced some type of obstacle in our life, it’s how we handle it that determines whether it becomes a permanent roadblock or a learning opportunity.

BTW, this was the only school I applied to because I knew that was where I wanted to go.

By Richard

March 28, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

I was a C student in high school who wanted to go to college. I went to a JC first and made Dean’s List 3 out of the 4 semesters. After graduation I applied (and got accepted) to UCONN, Syracuse, BC and Emerson. If your child is an average student…it’s not too late. Go to a JC or local college and then transfer.

By Stacey

March 28, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

I was accepted everywhere I applied plus received “offer letters” from several other (small) schools. My top 3 choices only offered partial scholarships so I went with choice 4 because of the full scholarship offer. I chose to transfer to another school after my freshman year.

Based on what I’ve read about college entrance requirements, I doubt very seriously if I would be accepted at 1/2 of the schools. Of the ones that would (now) accept me, only a couple would offer any kind of scholarship. I would have qualified for and kept HOPE, however.

By mom

March 28, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

Son received early acceptance to UGA…but will not be attending as he’s accepted USMA instead! Go Army, Beat Navy!! woo hoo!!!!

By Old School

March 28, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

jim dear, you and your son need to look at the Academic Commonmarket. Georgia belongs and students desiring majors not available in their home state could qualify for an out-of-state tuition waiver. That’s how our daughter was able to attend MTSU and major in Recording Industry. No way on 2 school teacher salaries could we send her out of state for 4 years otherwise.

www.sreb.org and click on Academic Commonmarket (it may be two words…I forget.) It’s like getting HOPE for out of state. Quite a difference in paying $5600 a year and $16,000!(approx)

By jct

March 28, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

It is amazing to see how many applications todays student completes. I applied early action to the school of my choice. I was accepted on January 2nd. I stopped filling out applications (I had three ready to go if I did not get into my 1st choice) for schools and started filling out scholarship and grant applications. That was the 80s though. I just did not think it was worth it to pay all those application feed if I wanted to attend ‘X’ school.

I also concur with V and red.

By Apple for the Teacher

March 28, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

My 15 year old daughter has just realized the power of a good education. I told her last summer that between 9-12 grade, this time right now will determine just how happy and fulfilling hew whole life will be. She plans on being a vet, and we know there are a lot of years of education ahead of her to accomplish this goal and dream of hers. She has done the necessary work, and was rewarded with acceptance on the dean’s list as wel as many numerous invitations to various scholastic “programs” to ensure she is guided to her dream of having her own vet office …one day! For now, she is thrilled to see anything GOOD in the mailbox with her name on it, as opposed to just 2 years ago, when she could not stay out of trouble and stay focused on school. Any group or cause of affiliation she has aligned herself with will prove to be beneficial to her. Volunteering also is big in the eyes of higher education institutions. I keep her busy, and if I didn’t she would not be ready, or college bound when it matters most.

These envelopes will hopefully come, and if they are thin, or if they are fat, I am assuming she will be proud to go to any school that just accepts her and helps her realize her dream. She has learned her worth, and we are very proud.

I was a JUCO transfer student (MDCC and then Arizona State Univ.) who learned the value of studying too late, I am hoping she never has to go the route I did, college is the single best time of young people’s lives.

By eleteach

March 28, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Just slightly off subject.. but…

I wonder if it’s more difficult to get accepted if a student decides to wait a year or two, after graduation, before applying to college???

I have two high school sons. I see a number of young men & women who just seem like they would benefit to having another year or two under their belt. A little more time to mature.

I guess the fear would be that they wouldn’t apply after being out for a year. But how many students drop out during/after their freshman year? While some of this is due to being unprepared academically, do you think some of it is due to immaturity? There’s such a push and expectation to go directly to college immediately after high school.

By Erin

March 28, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

I applied early in my senior year at one school and got accepted there … whether I’d still be accepted today, given the same grades and everything? I don’t know. I think and hope I would be, but who knows what would happen? It’s gotten MUCH more competitive since my senior year in 92-93.

I was out of school awhile and moved to Texas and applied at three schools there … I was accepted at all three of those schools, but I’d already been in college by then a good college student making really good grades. So I think Round 2 was easier, actually.

So I didn’t apply to a huge number of schools, really … sorta lucked out the first time around, given that I’d only applied to one place I was sort of iffy about until I got there and LOVED it.

But I do see students now applying to 12 or 15, even 20 schools, all with different essay subjects and requirements. It’s enough to make one dizzy, thinking of all those forms and things to fill out and recommendations to get. But again, the college admissions process has gotten MUCH more competitive since I was a high-school senior.

By JustMe

March 28, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

Way back when I was in HS, not that many students applied to college. Usually only about 30 to 40% applied. Most HS graduates started work immediately in factorys or retail or other areas and started a family. I recall going back home during my sophomore year in college and shocked how many were married and already had children while I was still single.

The ‘cool’ thing to do as a senior in HS was to collect ‘flush letters’ from Ivy League schools. We had a competition among my friends to see who could collect these rejection letters from Harvard, Yale, Columbia, etc. We knew that was no chance of a South GA rural student ever being accepted. Of course, none of us could afford to attend even if we were admitted.

I am always shocked how many of today’s HS students go to college. They may not be able to read or do addition, but by golly they are going to college? This really doesn’t make sense to me. Even if that student gets a college degree, would they be able to find a job to warrant the college cost and years of not earning a wage while in school?

Too many people don’t realize how many great jobs and careers are out there that don’t require any college at all: plumbers, electricians, carpenters, and so on. They may require some type of apprenticeship or maybe even a year of technical school, but why waste 4 years in a college?

Heck, I would bet that most plumbers and electricians get paid way more than most people with a Bachelors Degree!

By Tony

March 28, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

Both my children and I will be in college next year. One is at a private school as a music major, the other wants to be an engineer, and I am finishing my doctorate. Number one targeted only one school. That is where she wanted to go, she got in, got loads of scholarship money, and is doing well. Number two also targeted one school. Even with an SAT score at 2100, top 10%, and a very strong academic record - he did not get in! Now he is working on what to do next. I feel strongly that my children must begin to set their own path for life and I have not interfered with their college planning except to serve as a consultant. The financial restrictions are also part of the bargain.

The reason I have supported my children in the way I described is based on my experiences in applying for and going to college. I was offered a full tuition scholarship by a college. Even though this college was not my first choice, I took them up on it. The following year, I transferred to my Alma Mater after that first year, even though I did not have an equivalent scholarship offer. However, it was the best thing for me. I had set a goal and that was the university for me. Thousands of dollars of student loans later, I graduated and have been well rewarded ever since.

For graduate work, I have been accepted at every university I applied. I chose the option best suited for my situation and am quite satisfied with the results. The only thing left now is that pesky little dissertation.

I want my children to earn their degree in an area of their own interest. It is what they will do for the rest of their lives. My advice to them is whatever path they take, always include as much diversity in their studies as possible so they will have flexibility when they come out on the other end.

My number one (music major) will probably minor in mathematics. She will have many more options as a result. Number two can’t make up his mind yet, but he already has diverse interests. I think it matters more what a person puts into their college work than where they go to college.

By JustMe

March 28, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

Tony I agree that what a child enjoys should be part of the equation as to what to major in college. However, in these days and times it is particularly important to consider the job market. I have know many students spend 4 years in college and graduate with a very large student loan to repay and then are not able to work in their career choice.

There are many many English majors that don’t have jobs, for example. So, they end up going back to college to take education courses so that they can teach.

I advise students to consider many things when selecting a college and a major. What you enjoy is just one part of the equation. Those students wanting to go to UGA just because they are Bulldog football fans are making bad decisions, IMHO.

By USC '83

March 28, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

I went to South Carolina in the early 80s. I looked at 3 schools: UNC, USC & College of Charleston. UNC out of state tuition was too much and SC had a better Journalism school, so applied to SC and knew I would get in. Charleston was my back up. I had great grades, school involvement and could afford SC at that time. Tuition was not bad then, and competition was really not there like it is today. My family wanted me to attend a local college first year, but I was no way into that. I applied on my own and when the acceptance letter arrived, gleefully showed it to my Mom. It was only one page with no big packet. She approved. It appears average SAT scores are higher now and the competition is stiff as well as cost. I am already coaching my 6th and 7th grader as to what is needed, so they will be prepared in a few years. Both want UGA and have the grades, but it takes more these days to get in. Your resume has to have stellar grades, community involvement, campus involvement if you want UGA or Tech. Schools are looking for leadership skills. USC admissions is also higher now than 25 years ago. I am glad I went to college when I did, but recently thought about going back to Law School. Boy are things different now!

By Jeff

March 28, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

JM:

Ummmm….

In my experience, MOST of the time a college degree is just a piece of paper that opens a few doors. Doesn’t really matter what it is in for many jobs, just that you have one.

Computing and teaching are really the only two exceptions to that I know of, and even in both of those getting a job is POSSIBLE without a degree in field, just not quite as easy.

Most of the time, employers are looking for experience over education. And I’ve found out over the past year exactly why that is. I can’t TELL you how much better of a programmer I am now after 1 year on the job than after 5 years of education. (And I graduated college with a 3.23, closer to 3.4 in my CS major.)

By DB

March 28, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

In the mid-70’s, I applied to two schools. Wait-listed at one (a top 5 nationally school) and early-decisioned at the second (UNC-CH).

Go, Tar Heels!

My son applied to 7 schools. 2 were top 5, nationally (1 accept, 1 “no thanks”). 1 was UGA (early decision, Honors), 4 others of various flavors and sizes out-of-state (accepted at all). He ended up with an academic scholarship at a top-15 school, where he’s been very happy this year. After watching the hoops he had to jump through, I am devoutly glad I don’t have to go through the same process! He actually has a much better work ethic than I did at his age, which I attribute partly to his experience and the higher expectations at his private school.

One down, one to go — the daughter comes up for the same process next year!

By CarolinaJacket

March 28, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

If Trippe doesn’t think she can make money with an Emory degree she needs to check out things a little bit more closely.

And for the mom who questioned if schools will take students who stay out a couple of years after graduating from high school, the answer is “yes”. Times have changed and many schools are delighted to have “non-traditional” students.

By jct

March 28, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

Only two Jeff…

I want my Physical Therapist to have a PT or equivalent degree. I would not want person with an english degree helping me rehab. Also, I want my Pharmacist to have studied Pharmacy. Same with my attorney, studying the law would be helpful.

True, a degree can open the door. The degree means you can finish something that you start. As a recruiter, that is something that most hiring managers want an employee.

We need to be mindful that, as previously stated, that plumbers, electricians, etc. can make much more than the average liberal arts graduate. Go to school because you like to learn, not because someone told you that is what your supposed to do.

By MrHughes

March 28, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

Since I applied to 21 schools I can tell you what worked for me. Most schools accept what is called the common application. It’s a basic format that makes the whole process a lot easier. A few of the schools requested an additional essay, but applying to 21 schools was not that hard at all with the avent of copiers. The other thing that helped me was that I wrote my college applications in my joint enrollment class after asking my professor.

By Elsie

March 28, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

This topic brought on a flashback for me. During my senior year, I applied and was accepted to several schools, but I was holding out to hear from my first choice. When I did, I somehow ended up with both an acceptance packet AND a rejection letter- on the same day! I opened the rejection letter first, cried my little eyes out, and nearly threw away the “other” envelope, thinking it was probably more advertising, like so much else I had received that year. I think it was the next evening that I did open it just out of curiosity. Of course it was after business hours and we could not contact the admissions office until the next day. I was on pins and needles at school the whole day; when I got home from school, the table was already set for dinner, and Dad had left the acceptance letter at my spot. He had straightened out the mix-up, and (I suspect) given the admissions office a piece of his mind! Looking back, I’m very glad that I was accepted~ but what a traumatic beginning to my college career!

By jim d

March 28, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

speaking of colleges. does anyone have any first hand knowledge about The Citadel?

By JustMe

March 28, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

Ummmmmmm…

I don’t know why you posted that to me. I don’t necessarily disagree with you. However, the previous posts were discussing a student selecting a career and/or college major. All I said was that the student should consider more things than just if they ‘like’ it.

You may ‘enjoy’ programming in basic, but there are just not that many jobs any more that require that skill. So, although you like it, it can be difficult to make a living at it….. just an example.

By cadet

March 28, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

Jim D,

With the Citadel you are paying for a military education. I had a friend who went there for a semester and ended up leaving because he didn’t like the abuse. If you want to go into the military and want the military education then go to one of the service academies. That way you get out with no debt and a commission in the military.

By cadet

March 28, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

Jim D,

With the Citadel you are paying for a military education. I had a friend who went there for a semester and ended up leaving because he didn’t like the abuse. If you want to go into the military and want the military education then go to one of the service academies. That way you get out with no debt and a commission in the military.

By CarolinaJacket

March 28, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

The Citadel is a very good school for those who want the military regimen. Which gets to a related issue. The most important thing is to pick a school that meets YOUR needs. The Citadel is great for some, yet not for others. Some students thrive in a smaller school environment whereas others may prefer a large university. There are many factors that determine success or failure while in college. I would advise you to think very carefully when deciding where you eventually end up.

By jim d

March 28, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

not me!!! way toooooo oooollldd

but it is one the kid is considering and He actually thrives on the discipline. He looks at it as challenging himself.

It is just one option he is considering.

Cadet, he tried for one of the acadamies and actually got a congressional nomination but failed to get the appointment. It is pretty competitive getting that appointment. Each one only accepts about 1200 new students from around the world every year.

Since he is looking at a military career, I suspect The Citadel might be good for him and put him in line for OCS upon graduation.

He’s got an apointment to visit in a couple of weeks to see what it all about. We are encouraging him to check out all of his options. This is but one of them.

By fk

March 28, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

Jim D—-I have two family members who are graduates of USMA at West Point. Both of them attended the prep school, USMAPS, to be sure that was the course they wanted to follow. It is definitely worth checking out, especially if it WP that your son is interested in. Plus, it added a year of maturity. I believe the prep school moving from NJ to the West Point campus, so that paints an even clearer picture of what may come to those serious about WP.

My son is a junior and has been checking out colleges. The Barrons book is a great reference for analysis. He is looking at schools far away. Hmmm…

By jim d

March 28, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

Thanks,

He was looking at Annapolis and may look again next year. He is yet undecided about that.

By jim d

March 28, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

fk,

LOL, Yeah, I know about the FAS! (Far away syndrome) He’s looking at schools just far away enough so mom won’t drive and she hates to fly. LOL

By jim d

March 28, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Cadet,

Yeah, I understand a lot of them crack during their Knob year.

By just a teacher

March 28, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

Re: Just Me’s comments about English majors

Does anyone have this data? I hear over and over about the English majors who don’t have jobs, but my experiences on both sides of the desk have not born this out. I wonder if this isn’t something that gets repeated into acceptance without actual verification? Just sayin.’

I would also like to suggest (somewhat obviously) that there are other factors that affect post-graduate employment other than the major. Give me a driven, focused art student over a pot-head programmer any day!

By fk

March 28, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

jim d—-Never before heard of FAS. Funny. My best friend’s son is a freshman in college. They live in the NE, and at first, he was considering school in HI, then CA, then Miami. As high school graduation approached, the distance between college and home decreased. He wound up 2-1/2 hours away.

Good luck to your son. Congrats to you for guiding him to this point.

By HB

March 28, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

Just a teacher, my experience matches yours. I know lots of English and history majors who are gainfully employed. Most liberal arts university majors do not translate directly to a career. English, biology, math, history — all of these provide valuable skills that students can apply in worklife in a variety of jobs, but none of these at the bachelor’s level prepare students for a specific career path. Does that mean these majors leave students unhirable? Of course not, or Emory would have gone out of business long ago. My Emory classmates include psychiatrists who majored in religion, Russian studies, and anthropology, an English-major attorney, a biology-major informatics specialist, a film studies-major Methodist minister, and Capitol Hill staffers of pretty much every major except oddly political science. No matter what the major, a graduate has to learn to take skills learned and apply them to a career path that hopefully a) will pay a decent salary and b) be something that is more to them than simply a way to pay the bills.

By jim d

March 28, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

JAT & HB,

“I wonder if this isn’t something that gets repeated into acceptance without actual verification? “

Consider the source! The source never ever documents her asinine comments.

By Lee

March 28, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this

A few observations:

• I’ve been involved in numerous hiring committees and not once did a candidates choice of school have any influence. It did not matter whether they went to UGA, Auburn, or Kennesaw State.

• One caveat to the above, we never had an Ivy League candidate to consider….

• They key to having a successful career is to give yourself lots of options. Many engineers in my company also have their MBAs. A lot of them are managers and executives.

• It always made me wonder why anyone would want to pay out of state tuition when we have some pretty good colleges and universities in state. Unless, of course, you are going for some specialized field of study that is not offered in state. Still…

• I don’t know if there is a job market for English majors or not. I do know there are a lot of fields of study which are a complete waste of time - if a career and financial gain is what you are after.

• Trying to figure out at age 18 what you are going to do for the rest of your life is a huge decision. Nothing wrong with sitting it out for a year or two.

• Internships and co-opting is a good option. My company makes a regular practice of hiring our interns and co-ops for full time jobs. Haven’t been disappointed yet.

By icis88

March 28, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this

I had to add my thoughts on this subject. I graduated from HS in 1988 when diversity was on the agenda of most southern colleges. I was accepted to the very competitive Clemson University, but I also applied to UGA to appease my parents. I laugh now at how an acceptance from UGA is considered such an honor. In my circle of friends, UGA was bottom shelf and only a letter from Emory or GATech would suffice. In the end, the out of state tuition hike for Clemson sent me packing to Athens. I had only applied to two schools in hopes that my parents would give into my demands of “rallying in the valley” of Clemson,SC. Fast forward to 2008, I realize I wasn’t such a hotshot. I would probably not receive the letters of interest from Mount Holyoke,Northwestern or Berkley. College wasn’t a cakewalk and you are indeed a little fish in a really big pond no matter where you go. My husband and I are preparing our sixteen year old for her college career. She isn’t a star student, but she tries so hard. We know she will benefit from a junior college. Middle Georgia College in Cochran is the choice we have already made for her.

By DB

March 28, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

icis88, you said, “Middle Georgia College in Cochran is the choice we have already made for her.”

Just out of curiosity, did SHE have any say in the matter whatsoever?

By James

March 28, 2008 11:49 PM | Link to this

I applied to Georgia Tech, U of Florida, NC State, and U of Maryland. I got accepted at all four, but eventually the in-state tuition plus HOPE pulled me in, although the best college visit I had was at NC State. I’m glad I went to Tech. Awesome school, awesome degree. Now I’m in grad school. I took the road less traveled and that has made all the difference…

By HS Teacher Too

March 28, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

What was it like when you applied to college? Could you get in to your alma mater if you applied today?

The whole public/private, in-state/out-of-state is old to me. There are so many factors that are different for every person that for anyone to say what worked for them must be “the” way to go is foolishness. Jim d, in that sense I admire how much you are letting your son figure it out his way. I hope when I am in your shoes I am able to step back similarly. Jeff, for example, it is wonderful — and clearly it worked for you — that you did joint enrollment and stayed on at Kennesaw. I didn’t go to an in-state school (or even a public school, for that matter), and the colleges to which I applied looked down upon JE. They’d rather have seen multiple AP classes and active involvement in extra-curriculars (either through the school or outside of school). So for you, JE was the way to go. For me, it would have been a detriment to what I wanted to do and to getting accepted where I wanted to go.

But as I said, I wouldn’t tell my child(ren) that what I did was necessarily right for them. It was, however, right for me.

It is interesting that nearly every comment on this blog today has been affected by financial concerns as to this decision. I wonder if money were no object for us, whether our choices might have been different. (I’ll be the first to answer my own question: Not for me.)

By mom

March 29, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

Jim D: if your son did not get into USNA, choosing the prep school is not an option, as a previous poster said. The prep school is offered by USNA to students who are weak in an area. If they complete the prep year academically strong, they will receive admission the next year. Around 30% of academy appointees are not coming directly from high school. Another person said after Citadel your son could do OCS. Wrong. Why? He will be commissioned a 2nd Lt. at graduation…no need for OCS. Your son needs to determine what his goal is. Does he want to be a commissioned officer in the Navy? If so, there are several routes. If he wants the military education, he may want to do Citadel, or apply to USNA for 2013. He needs to talk to his admissions rep and determine why he wasn’t selected for this year and work on those areas. You might want to look at USNA page on College Confidential website or get some information on www.serviceacademyforums.com.

Good luck,

Go Army, Beat Navy (mom of USMA appointee for 2012).

By WFC

March 29, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

There are not that many “truly competitive” or “selective” schools IF IF IF…. you have the bucks!!! Read Murray Sperber’s “Beer and Circus” for good insights on the nature of undergraduate education. Things DO get messsy when you start negotiating financial aid.

RULE #1: It’s not all that important where you start college, it’s where you FINISH.

RULE #2: Don’t burden yourself with student loans. Twenty-somethings have a zillion ways of getting into debt without student loan debt from the git-go.

RULE #3: Very few colllege freshmen know their career path even if they THINK they do.

RULE #4: Introductory core courses are comparable most anywhere. Let the HOPE pay for those and then transfer.

Taught HS AP classes for 30 years. Seen ‘em come and seen ‘em go!

By Laura

March 29, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

No way would I get into UGA today, as I did in 1979 with my high GPA (from Riverwood)but average SATs.

And my daughters today cannot get into UGA, and neither could their friends last year who attended Harrison High in Cobb and graduated with 4.0 GPAs and BETTER! Less than 50 out of 800 graduates of the class of ‘07 were accepted to UGA, which is a CRIME. The common solution, going to a lower tier school then transferring, is making it even more difficult to get into the lower tier schools, i.e. Milledgeville’s GCSU. The Board of Regents is doing a terrible job, and someone should take a closer look at this problem.

By fk

March 29, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

jim d: Persistence pays off. Have your son contact the admissions, or whatever the office is called at USNA, to find out if he can be nominated for a spot at the USNA prep school in RI (I think that’s where it’d located). Since this is coming from him, and you’ve stated that it is something he wants, he needs to plead his case…why he wants to go and why he would be an asset—-that it is something that he has wanted, not b/c of family tradition, etc.). Have his coach(es) do some networking for him with the coaches at the academy and/or the prep school.

Regarding WP, there are other military prep schools that have graduates who gain admittance to the USMA, not just USMAPS. “mom” is correct, the nomination to the prep school must be via USMA. My apologies for not being clear on that. Other candidates might be enlisted in the Army, and nominated by an officer who may observe a certain something in this person that he/she feels would make this person a good officer, and recommends them to WP or whatever the process. The candidate attends USMAPS first, I think. I think 80% of those who attend USMAPS continue onto USMA.

The first year at WP is grueling, physically and mentally. Two family members who are USMA grads, attended USMAPS first. They both felt that they had an advantage over those who did not have the experience of the prep school, especially during that first year. They had a much better idea of what was to come. About 30% of the USMA class does not graduate, for various reasons.

If your son really wants this, tell him to be persistent. Not everyone who is accepted to these academies attends. Pursue admission to the prep school if not accepted to whichever the academy. The worst thing that could happen is that they stand firm on the first decision.

By Student

March 29, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

It’s certainly not a CRIME that only 50 out of 800 students were accepted to UGA. It’s a testament to UGA’s rising reputation and selectivity. UGA is meant to be the state’s best liberal arts and science school and therefore it should definitely not accept just anyone. Schools like Michigan, Virginia, and UNC-CH certainly don’t accept all instate students that apply, and they are ranked among the best schools nationally. If we ever want UGA to get a national reputation for excellence like those schools have, it needs to continue to get more difficult to be accepted. There are many other universities and colleges in Georgia that students who can’t get into UGA can attend. The solution is definitely not to lower standards at UGA, but to make the other schools more academically respected so that they can be a good alternative for those who are not accepted at UGA or Tech.

By fk

March 29, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

mom: Congrats and best wishes to your son…and to you, too! If possible, a few key dates that my sister-in-law, mom of a WP grad recommends for parents: “R” Day—-Report Day in June; “March Back Day”—-Tuesday or so before “A” Day; “A” Day—-mid August and “Parent Plebe Weekend”—-Oct.

I don’t think that you actually get to speak to them on March Back Day (they’ve been out in the woods for quite some time), but it makes a difference if they know you’re out there cheering them back. My nephew’s gf waved a bright pink scarf…and he saw her and his mother among the so many in the crowd. They made the 2% club…couples who survived the four years at WP. They’re now engaged and will be married at WP.

Visiting days, a lot of the families picnic. WP grounds are beautiful. We attended graduation. My brother & sil rented RVs and motel rooms. We partied by the water…(there were at least 40 of us)…and were up there for a couple of days as we wanted to see the parade on the Friday (or Sat.?) before. The whole weekend was quite an experience.

During the year, the “kids” are anxious to get off campus whenever they get a free weekend…few and far between in the beginning. Because of time constraints, it is not always conducive to travel by air. My nephew lived within a 2-1/2 hour commute, so when he came home, he usually brought 10 or so kids with him. One year, my sil made 10 extra Easter baskets…and they all enjoyed them! So, encourage your son to become fast friends with those who live within a few hour commute, so that he can enjoy a free weekend off campus when it fianlly does come.

By mom

March 29, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

Thanks JK. Those dates are different for this year; PPW moved to March. We already have booked flights and hotels for June and Aug.

There is so much info out there for kids trying to get into academies…the websites I listed earlier were very helpful to me. Most high school counselors are not helpful w/ this info, so kids and parents have to educate themselves. Many parents in the metro area of current academy cadets are in these forums and are willing to help.

As far as USNA prep school, when this student met w/ his BGO for the interview, he had to indicate if he was interested in prep. He must have some weaknesses in his candidate file, as he was not offered NAPS or civil prep (foundation). He may be lacking leadership, athletics, SAT, grades, etc. There is something that they wanted that he didn’t have to be declined USNA and prep. The only way to know for sure is call the academy and speak w/ admissions.

As you stated, it does help if you have coaches talking to academy coaches. My son had an early offer as he is a recruited athlete (for a non-revenue generating sport). They (USNA and USMA) are all over kids w/ leadership, athletics, and good grades. Jimd’s son needs to call and find out where the problem was and work like crazy to fix it for USNA c/o 2013.

—mom (Go ARMY beat Navy)

By HS Teacher Too

March 29, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

50 out of 800 students is 6.25% of the class. Surely not the entire class applied to UGA, so the “acceptance rate” at Harrison would be significantly higher than 6.25%. Seems like that’s a pretty competitive rate but I wouldn’t want to call it unfair.

Of course, this could be Texas, and we could have the 10% rule… for better AND for worse.

By Ripdog

March 30, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Wow, here we go again. Kids getting stressed out over the admissions game. I think I agree with some of the posts I have read in that it doesn’t matter what school you go too. Nowadays, nobody cares if you graduated from Harvard or Yale with an English degree. The name on the degree is irrelevant for the most part. The skills you attain and the grades you get are more important. So if you don’t get into Emory or GA Tech, don’t stress. Work hard at the school you do decide to go too and you’ll be fine.

By Ripdog

March 30, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

Hey JustMe,

What happens when a plumber breaks an arm or is physically unable to work? I see your point because I know plumbers personally that make more than college graduates. I also know college graduates who sit on their butts all day but because they have specialized knowledge, they get paid a lot of money.

By JustMe

March 30, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

Ripdog - Not sure what you are asking me…. I just wanted to make the point that college isn’t for everyone, and doesn’t NEED to be for everyone. There is nothing dishonorable about starting a career right out of high school, if that is what the individual wants.

I have friends that ‘sit on their a*’ and get paid well by corporations just like the college grads that you describe. In addition to plumbers, etc., there are jobs like insurance sales, retail, and even some computer maintenance jobs available for people that don’t require a college degree.

By Mike

March 30, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

We were very disappointed when our daughter was rejected from UGA this year. She had a 3.85 and a 1350 from Woodward Academy. I can’t say I was shocked given the meteoric rise in the admissions standards, but I suppose I was more surprised because I thought her numbers were pretty strong. However, she was luckily admitted to Vanderbilt which was her top choice, but it sure would’ve been nice to have the HOPE pay her way after we’ve shelled out private school tuition for 8 years at Woodward.

By PJ

March 30, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Our son like many other kids in his class did not get into UGA this year. The admissions game can be so random. He was also denied by GaTech, but was wait listed at Emory and George Washington. Not thrilled about paying private school tuition, but what can you do.

By mom

March 30, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this

Looks like it was much easier to get UGA acceptance for EA this year. I am curious as to why some kids don’t do that…it’s so much less to fill out and those stats for Mike’s daughter are much stronger than what my son (a white male to boot!)had. He applied EA so he didn’t have to write essays. He had a 3.6 GPA and a 1290 SAT and only 2 AP classes (all others were honors or gifted). Note to juniors reading this blog: Get your arse in gear early next year and apply by the EA deadline in October!

By JustMe

March 30, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this

Mike Just because you shelled out so much money to send your child to Woodward, doesn’t make her an automatic. Realistically, with grade inflation, a 3.8 isn’t all that great. Many students have over a 4.0 with AP classes and IB classes. And, an SAT of 1350 is really not good at all (under the new SAT format).

Regading UGA Even UGA has a limited number of spots. With so many students applying to all colleges these days, colleges can be more selective - even UGA. All colleges want the best students possible…. can you blame them?

As I mentioned before, today’s teenagers feel like they MUST go to college. I wish more than anything that these kids realize that their life doesn’t depend on a college education. They should first realize what they want to do with their life first. In my day, it was common for kids to take a year or two off after high school working, or backpacking across Europe, or whatever. Then, they would consider college after “discovering themselves.” I just fear that too many of these kids will work for 4 years towards a career they may not want or like.

By jim d

March 31, 2008 6:56 AM | Link to this

3.5 with electives chosen = core classes,—- 1300 (not counting the writing),—- & 25, well rounded in extra curriculars got a kid accepted everywhere (save one) he applied. All but one considered major universities.

I can’t help but wonder how much impact on decisions is based on extra curriculars and/or an early decision and /or FAFSA data provided?

By mom

March 31, 2008 7:03 AM | Link to this

Justme: I am certain when Mike mentioned 1350 he was meaning combined math/verbal. No one counts the writing in his/her total. It would be very hard to have only a 1350 if that indeed included all 3 sub-tests! I would think UGA does not get nearly the number of applications from Woodward, however. Don’t kids who attend selective private schools tent to apply to selective colleges? Yes, one could argue UGA has become “selective,” but I’m talking ivies, etc. After paying for private school for 8 years, I’m sure HOPE would have been a nice break. I can’t lie; UGA w/ HOPE is a great bargain. We sat next to a guy at orientation who had one kid at UGA and one at Vandy. Since he was from NJ, he was paying OOS fees. He paid more in tuition for his two kids per year than most people in the room made! Life if full of choices; Vandy is a great place, and as long as Mike’s daughter doesn’t run off and join a band she should really enjoy Nashville!

By jim d

March 31, 2008 7:30 AM | Link to this

MOM,

He wasn’t paying OOS fees at Vandy. Vandy is private and charges the same for I/S as they do for O/S, somewhere around 35g a year not incl. R&B.

By jim d

March 31, 2008 7:38 AM | Link to this

just an observation,

Seems that most kids may historically do better on the ACT than the SAT. I’d suggest a kid take both since most colleges will accept either. Just a guess, but this could impact a decision.

By mom

March 31, 2008 7:46 AM | Link to this

jim d, FAFSA does not come into the admissions process AT ALL for UGA. Once accepted, it’s filled out…but not before.

By mom

March 31, 2008 7:47 AM | Link to this

Jim, perhaps I wasn’t clear: he was paying Vandy tuition plus OOS at UGA…together he was paying one very large chunk of change!!

By JustMe

March 31, 2008 8:05 AM | Link to this

jim d and mom and Mike

A 3.5, and even a 3.8, gpa in high school isn’t that great. At my high school, a 3.8 won’t even get you in the top 10% of the class. And yes jim, I am talking about a public high school here.

The top students have over a 4.0 because AP and IB classes give that extra gpa point. Students that want to attend these competitive colleges need to do everything to increase their gpa. I cringe when I seen juniors and seniors taking ‘easy’ classes because they want to ‘play’ and/or ‘cruise’ through high school.

By jim d

March 31, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

JM,

First you must consider what some schools are looking for. Leadership has often been a word I’ve heard bandied about.

I believe a well rounded student that has a history of demonstrated leadership qualities may have some advantage during the admittance process. But then that is just my opinon, based on observations over the past few years as I’ve wathed boy’s that have accomplished a lot in leadership roles being accepted at colleges that are thought of as being highly selective.

By JustMe

March 31, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

jd - After speaking to people in admissions at GA Tech and also at Emory, here is what they say…

First, they look at the real comparable data they have to work with such as SAT scores and ACT scores. They create a sort of ‘cut off’ from those. Then, they look at gpa (both overall and for core classes). They realize that not every school is the same - some are more difficult academically and they do take this into account. Along with gpa, they look at the transcript details such as difficulty of classes taken in high schools (AP and IB and gifted/accelerated classes are better than general level classes). Students that take the more difficult classes are more highly regarded.

After all of those academic things, THEN they look at extracurricular activities such as clubs, leadership positions held, sports, and so on. It is all but impossible for a student with low academic achievement but with high ‘leadership’ and low academics to ever beat out a kid with great academic achievement and low ‘leadership’. The primary purpose of a college is to academically educate, of course (at least for the colleges that I am aware).

If all academic achievements are basically the same, then yes, the leadership and extracurricular things come in to play.

Some colleges also have a required essay. Some colleges also have required teacher recommendation forms. These are used as a 2nd or 3rd tier ‘cut off’ for students. Unless, of course, one of these is particularly horrible, and then the student is discounted all together.

This is basically how it has been described at Emory and at GA Tech. I know that GA Tech creates a type of formula where they assign points for a variety of things and they weight things more heavily based on what type of student they want.

By jim d

March 31, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

Thanks JM.

By Jason

March 31, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

JustMe, you’re one bitter guy. It sounds like you’re trying to compensate for your own feelings of inferiority by diminishing the accomplishments of others. Over a lifetime, college graduates earn, on average, almost twice as much as high school graduates. Furthermore, a 3.8+ GPA from Woodward and 1350 SAT score are quite impressive. I suspect UGA rejected this applicant because they figured they were her safety school, and she’d certainly get into a better school—which she did.

By JustMe

March 31, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

Jason Bitter? Well, I have my Bachelors and 2 Masters Degrees (not in education) and currently working on my PhD. Bitter? Inferior feelings? I don’t think so! I enjoy learning and will likely continue taking courses the rest of my life.

However, not everyone is like me. I fully realize that not everyone enjoys learning and college is not for everyone. Is that good or bad? I would say neither. It is what it is.

By the way, admissions officers don’t sit around and say, “Golly, this student is too good, and so we will reject her.” Or, “We will reject her before she rejects us.” They don’t play those games - and don’t have the time to even if they wanted to. You have to be kidding!

Your post is so attacking, it seems that you need to evaluate your own feelings before trying to understand someone else!

By Jason

March 31, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

“By the way, admissions officers don’t sit around and say, ‘Golly, this student is too good, and so we will reject her.’ Or, ‘We will reject her before she rejects us.’”

Actually, they do. It’s called “Tufts Syndrome.” Colleges will reject or waitlist overqualified applicants to increase their yield and lower their acceptance rate.

By JustMe

March 31, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

Jason - Give me a break! Do you really think that colleges would reject a great student and accept a lesser qualified to play a numbers game? Not a single admissions officer that I have EVER spoken to has said anything close to this.

Do you really think that colleges would shoot themselves in the foot like that?

By HB

March 31, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

Re: the Woodward student with good GPA and SAT. I’ve actually heard that going to an excellent high school can sometimes make it harder to get accepted to some colleges because a university is only going to take so many kids from any one school. So if at Woodward 20 kids have at least a 3.85 GPA and 1350 on the SAT and most applied to UGA (highly likely), there’s a good chance that all the Woodward slots were gone before reaching that point. At a rural public high school of the roughly same size, you may only have 3 or 4 students with that SAT score. UGA may accept all of those, plus 3 or 4 who only score 1250.

By Jason

March 31, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

“Do you really think that colleges would reject a great student and accept a lesser qualified to play a numbers game?”

Yes. With the proliferation of influential college rankings, admissions has increasingly become a numbers game. If a school admits an applicant who chooses not to enroll, its yield decreases. Yield is a component of almost all ranking systems. Accordingly, admissions officers identify and reject overqualified applicants (i.e., those who will most likely matriculate at a better school), thus protecting their yield and overall ranking.

By karin

March 31, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

Re: the Woodward student with good GPA and SAT. I’ve actually heard that going to an excellent high school can sometimes make it harder to get accepted to some colleges because a university is only going to take so many kids from any one school. So if at Woodward 20 kids have at least a 3.85 GPA and 1350 on the SAT and most applied to UGA (highly likely), there’s a good chance that all the Woodward slots were gone before reaching that point. At a rural public high school of the roughly same size, you may only have 3 or 4 students with that SAT score. UGA may accept all of those, plus 3 or 4 who only score 1250.

Former higher ed adm here…. you are correct

By WS

March 31, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

I’ve heard the same about caps on admittances from any single high school…my kid went to one of metro atlanta’s top-5 public high schools and got a 30 on the ACT and did not get into UGA. I think his mid-3s gpa due to a slow start in 9th and 10th grades did him in. The whole thing has turned into an absurd numbers chase anymore — with zero room for error. The Hope has skewed things and the “echo boom” and poor economy don’t help, since taking out a huge loan to go to Vandy probably doesn’t look so good for a lot of high-achievers this year.

Anyway my kid got into 3 other schools in GA plus Auburn and LSU, the latter of which has offered to waive the out-of-state add on. All I can say is, Geaux Bengal Tigers! I hope they drill UGA….

By Lee

March 31, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

Wow. Ya’ll crack me up sometimes…

A 3.85 gpa at school A does not equate to a 3.85 at school B which does not equate to a 3.85 at school C. Which is why many of our high school students with 4.0+ gpa’s get their head handed to them during the first semester of college.

Sometimes, the degree program you apply for has a significant impact on if you get in. For example, if there are a lot more students applying for the Early Childhood program compared to the Science Education program, which field of study do you think it will be easier to get accepted in?

Finally, I think extracurricular activities, especially those that show leadership potential (class officer, officer of a club) etc. sometimes have more of an impact than gpa alone.

Oh yeah, they still play games with the diversity. Good luck if you’re a white male.

By JBL

April 1, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Sadly, the population boom, Hope and other factors have changed UGA’s mission. It’s no longer the Big Public U where anyone with a respectable high school record can go and either flourish or fail. It’s become a gigantic private college, admissions-wise, using a complex grid of demographic and other “balancing” factors. When grads of top HS’s with 3.8s and 30s on their ACT’s can’t get in — as referenced above —- something’s seriously off-the-rails, but I don’t know how you’d fix it. The situation is made worse by the fact that Georgia’s other big public — Tech — is by nature so restrictive academically. So the old “open-arms” role now goes to the GCSUs and the Ga. States, which have their pluses but simply cannot offer the same experience. Meanwhile I think the Auburns and FSUs of the world are making a TON of money off Georgians who can afford them as “safeties”….

By John

April 1, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

Whatever happened to wanting a job in the trades? Who’s going to work on our cars and fix electrical wiring in the future if kids are either going without any higher education or are going to be desk jockey’s for their careers?

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March 24, 2009 4:07 AM | Link to this

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