Get Schooled

By yesiamworried

March 27, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this

I know they have been worried in DeKalb as well, but if it is optional, I am not sure DCSS will accept many Clayton students at least at decent schools. (There is plenty of room at McNair Middle if anyone wants to send their child there, for example. But Southwest DeKalb, MLK, or LIthonia High schools are all over crowded.)

It will be interesting to watch.

The bigger concern ought to be that all the renters in Clayton will leave once their leases are up. So by January 2009, I bet they are all gone and have landed (without vouchers) in other school systems.

By JustMe

March 27, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

I really cannot see one single reason why any school would accept students from another district under these circumstances. The receiving school system won’t get the funds (tax money) from the home school system, only the little bit from the State. With every student they accept, they will be ‘stealing’ money from their home area students and tax payers.

I guess the only possible reason to accept a Clayton County student is if that student is some super star athlete or maybe some super academic person to make the receiving school look better (pass AYP, for example). Otherwise, why would they?

By Tater

March 27, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this

JustMe

I guess the only possible reason to accept a Clayton County student is if that student is some super star athlete or maybe some super academic person to make the receiving school look better (pass AYP, for example). Otherwise, why would they?

Very interesting comment. So the idea of treating everyone the same is a foreign subject with you..

By eleteach

March 27, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this

Please remind me who voted for these Board Representatives who have made such a mess of things?

Silly me, I thought that actually voting in the most competent people was the way to go. Little did I know that my children could have had a private school education at the cost of other county tax payers simply by obliterating the local system first.

By flipper

March 27, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

Tater, the surrounding districts already treat everyone in their own district “the same.” Why in the world would they voluntarily take on some other mostly likely low achieving kids? Clayton created this mess… they need to fix it themselves and not burden their neighbors with their problems.

My prediction is that the areas of Henry, Fayette and DeKalb that border Clayton are going to be overrun by Clayton refugees this summer. It will be interesting to see what happens to the schools in these areas.

By JustMe

March 27, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

Tater I said that “I guess,” not that I agreed with it or think it is right. I said “I guess” meaning that those are the only things I can imagine someone trying to justify a Clayton Co. transfer into their home school to the tax payers.

On the prowl looking for another fight, I see….. You and jim d are really 2 peas in a pod.

By Liz

March 27, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

It’s sad that getting a quality education has gone by the wayside. Why should those children have to suffer the consequences of the adults?

By GeezGuys

March 27, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

Do you think these vouchers are fair? No, as eleteach pointed out, acquiring special funding by wiping out your own school system is rewarding idiocy.

Should neighboring public schools be required to teach Clayton children? H3ll no. They have a school system, if they broke it, they should fix it. Not freeload, like irresponsible people who are always bumming off of others.

If not, what will happen to these kids? Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a [__]—-and why should I? Apparently their parents don’t care, or they would have elected responsible officials, like parents/voters in thousands of other school districts.

You have to be an incredible loser to get accreditation pulled, the incompetence on all levels is staggering. I can’t make up for such behavior. If those kids have been raised by stupid incompetents they’re pretty much doomed, no matter how many tax dollars we throw at them.

By Jeff

March 27, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

Liz:

“The sins of the fathers….”

It aint just a classic saying. It really is the way the world works, like it or not.

By catlady

March 27, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

Repeat after me: We have NO housing available up here in the N Ga mtns! We have NO housing available up here in the N Ga mtns!

By lwa

March 27, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

All children deserve a chance. We should not punish the children b/c their parents made a bad mistake through lack of knowledge in electing the current school board. Everyone deserves a chance at a good eduction.

The state should divert funds from Clayton Cty. schools for those students who are attending schools in another county.

By Jeff

March 27, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

catlady:

I’m coming back up there this weekend, but can we add Bartow County to your list of places where there is NO housing available??

:P

By V for Vendetta

March 27, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

Tater,

Not everyone is “the same.” This is the main problem with public education. I know the frustrations I feel when receiving a new student from a disadvanteged area. I can’t imagine the enormous influx of students that will pour into surrounding counties. Considering there is a very real chance that they will be academically behind, I don’t blame other counties for turning them away. It’s a logistics issue. Sometimes our morality and capacity to feel sorry for others is not the best thing in the world. Clayton did this to themselves; it’s not fair to impose their mess on other districts and potentially affect the education of those districts’ students.

By jim d

March 27, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

Yo Cat,

Any room up there for a couple of soon to be empty nesters?

By jim d

March 27, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Caution Tater!!!

JM’s BBT may be a bit low this morning.

By Jeff

March 27, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

If society keeps covering for parents’ mistakes, society will continue to reap the consequences.

I for one am tired of it. I pay for my sins, why do I also have to pay for someone else’s?

Note that where I live we are also seeing what Henry and Fayette are about to, because we have the best schools in the area. So all the dregs of society come here wanting thr schools, but they only drag the schools down because their PARENTING skills SUCK!

By jim d

March 27, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

V,

But did they do it entirely to themselves? As I recall there was a huge influx of people moving into CC a few years ago from N.O. Might this have affected the school system?

By JustMe

March 27, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

Jeff - Be careful. If you keep saying bad things about parents, you will feel the wraith of jim d!

By Old School

March 27, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

Could the faculties at the affected schools gather the information required for accreditation and submit it on their own? Isn’t it up to each school to document this information? Can’t SACS or GAPSS evaluate any school in the Clayton system that can show proof?

Maybe I don’t understand this whole mess. I thought a system was accredited when each school achieved accreditation. Is it the school board that has lost its accreditation or each school?

By eleteach

March 27, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

Let’s open up another can of worms, shall we…

if I’m a Clayton county parent, sending my child to another county for his/her education - do I have the same rights to voice and vote my opinions as parents & taxpayers of that community?

How’s that gonna work???

By mmm

March 27, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

This is why all the private foundations have decided that early childhood education is where their money is going to flow.

By Jeff

March 27, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

Furthermore, on ‘accreditation’ in general:

Just another affront to local control. If some ‘organization’ 3000 miles away can tell a local area that their school isn’t ‘good enough’, how does one know that said organization’s values and the local areas values are the same?????

(I point to the NEA giving a well known abortion provider a standing ovation, even though at least half the country opposes abortion.)

By jim d

March 27, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

Wraith?: As in a barely visible gaseous or vaporous column?

I promise not to do that to Jeff!

By V for Vendetta

March 27, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

Jim D,

Good point about the people moving in, but I think we’re looking at a lose/lose situation here. The kids in Clayton lose because their school system (and, yes, some of the parents, too) failed them on a grand scale. Unfortunately, the neighboring ditricts will lose when these kids, who are quite possibly academically behind, overcrowd their already overcrowded schools and classrooms.

In this case, I have to say that it just isn’t fair. Clayton has been struggling mightily with education for some time now; it’s no secret to anyone who has lived in metro Atlanta for more than a few years. However, letting their students move into other districts could potentially impact the learning of (for lack of a better word) innocent students. I’m not comfortable with that at all.

The students in neighboring counties don’t deserve to have their education compromised because of Clayton’s mistakes. True, the children of Clayton don’t deserve this, either. Unfortunately someone has to pay for the mistakes of the county, and in my humble opinion, it should only be the residents of that county. Life aint always fair.

By jim d

March 27, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

V,

“The students in neighboring counties don’t deserve to have their education compromised because of Clayton’s mistakes”

In light of that, would you not agree then that it would benefit all for some of our state and fed. tax dollars to be spent helping fix the problem rather than allowing it to impact the local dollars spent on education in surrounding counties?

By jim d

March 27, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

V,

my origional thoughts on this subject were much like yours, i thought “they broke it let them fix it” After a bit of consideration I realized that if we don’t help fix it, it would have a profound impact on the funds available in neighboring communities for education. I think maybe now we must help fix it.

By Jeff

March 27, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

jim:

Clayton County’s problem may be Metro ATL’s problem, but it most certainly is NOT the entire state’s problem.

Metro ATL only accounts for about 1/5 of the state, IF that!

By posterchild

March 27, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

In 1994, I was an 8th grader. I moved from a Clayton County middle school to a Fayette County middle school in March of that year. It was a world of difference. The standards were much higher, and this carried into high school, too (I subbed at a Clayton high school while in college). If I were involved with Fayette of Henry’s schools, I would be concerned that a lot of remediation would be needed to get many of the kids up to speed, if you will. In my case, it wasn’t for a lack of great teachers and people who cared; it was more the students who took great joy at throwing scissors at teachers, stealing school property, etc.

By jim d

March 27, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

I respectfully disagree. It is a much larger problem. One that could impact the enire state. Are you familar with Dominoes?

Let’s say clayton falls, kids go to dekalb and henry, then those fold under the burden moving more kids to gwinnett and rockdale. where does it end?

By eleteach

March 27, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

I’m told all schools in Clayton County are Title 1 schools. That said, $ clearly isn’t the problem!

By Jeff

March 27, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

jim:

The solution is simple:

Don’t let the first dominoe fall. But I don’t mean that in the way you do.

HOLD THE PEOPLE OF CLAYTON COUNTY RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN MESS.

Don’t allow transfers of ANY kind. (Sports, academics, spec ed, etc)

Only when people are held to the most severe of consequences do they ever change. This goes for individuals from birth-death as well as for communities and societies.

Our main problem in this country now is that we think we are ‘helping’ people in our benevolence, when really we are CRIPPLING them and only making OUR problem WORSE.

A good movie scene that illustrates this is from Remember the Titans, where Will Patton’s character takes Petey aside after Coach Boone has just chewed him out. The confrontation between Patton and Boone in the next scene is EXACTLY what is happening right now, only you and many others are Patton.

How about you step up and be Boone instead?

By jim d

March 27, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

eleteach,

ok so let’s come up with a team of pro’s to move in and fix the problems. Hell we do it in other countries, why not do it on a state and local level.

By JustMe

March 27, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

Here is a thought….

The US seems to be under the impression that when a foreign government fails its people, we (the US) should step in and prop up that Country until they can do it themselves….

Possibly, this approach should be considered for Clayton Co. The State could just abolish their disfunctional BOE and install a Clayton Co. education czar. Let this czar fix things and then in due time, the people of Clayton Co. can re-elect a different BOE.

If we use this approach on foreign Countries, maybe we should use it on ourselves?

If this approach is used, we could ensure that the students are still eligible for the State HOPE and would be “accredited” at least for the in-State colleges. Once the czar has done their job and a BOE is elected, then SACS could come back in and evaluate Clayton Co. for full accreditation.

By jim d

March 27, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

Maybe I should just remain silent on this issue since this is one sure way to bring about universal school choice. But then again I’m afraid of what would happen to the schools, making choice not of much value.

By eleteach

March 27, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

jim d - take a look at the list of 9 items SACS is requiring and tell me which ones additional money is going to fix.

By SET

March 27, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

All School districts should have designated academic program schools and designated holding tank schools for future prison inmates. The twain should never meet. If there is enough money, a remedial school to allow strivers to try to advance up would be nice.

Having said that the Clayton school children are free to just move and the other districts may have to deal with them - without vouchers. It is the superior district’s problem how they ingegrate the weak students into their schools. That’s life.

Of course schools have no reason to take refugees from failing districts who don’t actually live in the new district. Unless they need the money and the warm bodies, the door’s closed.

By jim d

March 27, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

While that may have been a viable solution, it no longer is in as much as legislation has been passed. So now we must deal with the realities that these students may well be transferring.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda no longer applies.

By jim d

March 27, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

JM,

It gets scary out there when we start agreeing!

By GeezGuys

March 27, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

The US seems to be under the impression that when a foreign government fails its people, we (the US) should step in and prop up that Country until they can do it themselves….

Uh, we see how well this works in Iraq.

More to the point is that we don’t generally take over countries with democratically elected governments. If we are satisfied the elections in Clayton were not rigged, we should not interfere with the results, even though they suck. It’s called the right to self-determination. The process doesn’t always have the best outcome, especially when the voters are stupid, apathetic cows.

By Jeff

March 27, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

jim:

The longer we continue on the wrong path, the more severe the eventual consequences become.

Better to go ahead and suck it up and get on the right path and deal with the consequences as they exist now than to risk the future of this entire State.

By jim d

March 27, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

SET,

“Unless they need the money and the warm bodies, the door’s closed.”

Naw, You left out the political aspects! That is rather unlike you.

By jim d

March 27, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

eleteach,

Here you go.

9 REQUIREMENTS Clayton County Public Schools must take the following steps to hold on to its accreditation:

1) Establish a governing board that is capable of fulfilling its roles and responsibilities.

2) Remove the influence of outside groups/individuals that are disruptive to the work of the school district.

3) Enact and commit to an ethics policy that governs the actions and work of the board members and staff, including appropriate steps when the policy is violated.

4) Implement a comprehensive review of board policies. Train board members on the purpose and expectations of policies.

5) Conduct a full, forensic audit of finances by an independent, certified accounting firm. Take appropriate steps to address the audit findings.

6:)Conduct a comprehensive audit of student attendance records. Take appropriate steps to ensure attendance records are accurate and meet legal requirements.

7) Ensure each board member is a legal resident of the county and is eligible to hold office.

8) Hire outside consultants with expertise in conflict resolution, governance and organizational effectiveness.

9) Appoint a permanent superintendent with the experience to lead the district.

4-5 & 6 could be accomplished with state auditors, which would cost all Georgia taxpayers and put these folks back on the right track. I believe all 9 objectives can be accomplished before they truly loose accretidation. Making this entire onverstion academic.

By Joy

March 27, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

These are Children we are talking about, NOT aliens.

By eleteach

March 27, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

I don’t disagree at all that changes need to be made, especially for the sake of the children. I’m just simply opposed that money is going to fix it.

It has been my experience with SACS in the past that under such circumstances, they would require third party studies be conducted, as part of the self-study, just as you mentioned above. I haven’t read the entire doc. so I’m not sure about this particular situation.

Rest assured, if whatever action is taken, is not endorsed by the people of Clayton County, the so-called solution will only be a temporary band-aid.

By JustMe

March 27, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

jim d wrote at 12:48 “Maybe I should just remain silent on this issue since …. I knew it couldn’t last.

By jim d

March 27, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

eleteach,

I’m confident that money will not fix everything. However, I am not adverse to spending money to help where we can and the ultimate fix, indeed, must come from within the county itself.

My point is simply that we will spend some now to help out or we will watch the deminishing return on our local dollars in other counties as these students either transfer or move. It may be less expensive to help now rather than wait until it is in our schools and driving down what is left of property values.

By jim d

March 27, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

JM,

There you go speed misunderstanding again.

Here’s the rest of the comment. please try to at least grasp the last part of the first sentence.

“way to bring about universal school choice. But then again I’m afraid of what would happen to the schools, making choice not of much value.”

By jim d

March 27, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

JM,

Just out of morbid curiousity, do you teach at a public school?

By V for Vendetta

March 27, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

Jim D,

Agreed, there is no easy fix. Of that we can all be certain. I am just not comfortable using any form of public money to clean up the mess. No matter which government agency, level, office, etc. is charged with the responsibility, the financial burden still falls on the taxpayers of metro Atlanta (if not Georgia). Perhaps a SPLOST tax levied against Clayton could fund this bailout.

It’s not that I’m against extending them SOME form of helping hand, I just don’t think it should come out of my pocket, or yours.

Then again, in a few more years we might be bailing out Cobb and Gwinnett, so we all better start saving for that! :-)

By JustMe

March 27, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

V That is a great idea! Why doesn’t Clayton Co pass a SPLOST to fund their mess clean-up? If they want to spend over $2 million to clean up their mess, they should have to pay for it. Guess it is just too logical.

Although, I think that at this point, it is too late. I am most in favor of the State appointing some czar to replace the BOE and ensure that accreditation is either kept or reinstated asap. After that, then let Clayton Co. pass the SPLOST and elect a new BOE.

By DB

March 27, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

As I commented yesterday, any voucher a kid receives is probably going to be a drop in the bucket when applied towards a private school — assuming, of course, you could even GET into a private school at this point. As everyone in the private school application process knows, those applications were due last January, and the decisions go out on April 1st. So, unless the private school is a small, non-SACS accredited school ANYWAY, you’re pretty much SOL there (and why go to a non-SACS school, after all this?)

NO, neighboring counties should NOT be forced to take in refugees from Clayton County! This was not a natural disaster — if a tornado had gone through and wiped out every single Clayton County school, then everyone would be scrambling to help the kids. But it’s not. This was years of well-known and well-publicized incompetence finally rearing up to bite Clayton County in the buttocks. Clayton County is surrounded by numerous examples of how to do it right, but chose to ignore them. Parents knew they were on thin ice, but chose to roll the dice with their kids’ education. There is NO WAY adjoining systems should be forced to compromise their quality by absorbing Clayton County’s mistakes. If I was a parent whose kid was suddenly relegated to a trailer after the capacity rose 20% in their school, I would NOT be happy — that kind of overcrowding has an effect, and why should MY housing values be jeopardized because Clayton County screwed up? Why should someone who did everything right — researched the schools, chose what might be a slightly more expensive property in order to be in a desirable district, etc., etc. — suddenly be penalized?

I am very, very sorry for them. But the time to ask for help was years ago, not when the consequences are staring them in the face.

By DB

March 27, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

One thought: Instead of giving EVERY child a voucher, why not just limit it to rising seniors? They are the ones that are the most severely impacted in terms of HOPE, college applications, etc. That would certainly cut down the staggering amount of assistance required to a level that might be more manageable and more palatable to potential “rescue” schools.

By eleteach

March 27, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Food for thought:

Some years ago when searching for a house to purchase, the buyer would consider the school in which the house was districted.

Then, thanks to NCLB, the buyer needs to consider the other schools within the county because the other schools may be forced to offer choice to your school.

Now, the buyer apparently also needs to consider all the surround county school districts. As they may too may be given a voucher to attend your school.

I’m looking at a Georgia map, thinking it’s time to move to the mid-west!

By SET

March 27, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

Of course in Southern CA Urban areas the upper middle class send their kids to private schools so they can speak english. They pay for it by having the mother work and the parents get a 2nd job sometimes.

I am hearing about more people turning to homeschooling. I still think the Internet will sharply accelerate that trend. I have a new associate attorney that was homeschooled (Northern CA) until college. A first for me, meeting someone in the profession with that background. So far I can’t discern anything obviously different about him but I’m looking!

Brave New World.

By posterchild

March 27, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

Regarding SPLOST initiatives in Clayton:

There was pretty substantial coverage in the AJC fairly recently regarding passing a penny sales tax (I think… could be wrong on the details) in Clayton, and the NAACP was heavily promoting voting against it. I can’t remember if it passed or not, but there seemed to be a lot of influence to not vote for anything that would increase taxation.

By catlady

March 27, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this

Jeff and jimd—we could probably make room for YOU TWO and your spouses, but NO OTHER FAMILIES!

By catlady

March 27, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this

Anyone notice the list of requirements by SACS in the AJC today and how little has been done? In addition, the CCBOE seems Hillbent on NOT doing number nine—hire a PERMANENT superintendent. They have declared their intent on Sat to name an interim, hired gun (and they are looking at two real jewels) to clean things up, in DIRECT opposition to the SACS requirement So it is OBVIOUS that they are NOT serious about this. And the statements that the current board members are going to stay on to “fix” the problems—Hello? Are these folks STUPID? Why aren’t the parents there every day, getting LOUDER and LOUDER? The board has risen to and past its level of incompetence. (Peter Principal)

Sorry, my pity disappears more and more each day. Parents have not taken the initiative as they should have. The voices of parents should be getting LOUDER by the minute. Too few doing too little.

By Public School teacher

March 27, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

Having taught in CC for fifteen years, I am appalled to see what a mess the system is in when it was, at one time, a high ranking system with a diverse population of successful students. Neighboring school systems should NOT be forced to take these children. There’s not a school in Fayette, Henry, etc. that isn’t already crowded that could handle the sudden influx. Unfortunately, the only option I see is for parents to move or rent a house in a neighboring county so that they are contributing to the tax base and then enroll children legally in the new system.

As a parent, I’d be looking to either rent my home in Clayton to whoever I could find and rent one myself in another district, OR I’d have to let my home go into foreclosure and take a hit on my credit rating so I could move. At this point, if I lived in CC I’d do whatever I had to in order to move. They are definitely going to lose their accredidation and I wouldn’t be hanging around to see what happens. Thank the good Lord above I left when I did. Would the last one out be sure to turn out the lights?

By JM

March 27, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

SO IF MY CHILD FLUNKS AND THE BOARD MEMBERS GET RICH, who takes my bill to put my child in a better school? There are district lines and county taxes for reasons. Clayton has had more funding than many counties and ruined their and now want to ruin others wanting better. Parents put your children in private school, pay taxes in a “better district” or HOUSE MEMBERS set up charter schools and stop shifting problems to tax payers. They have Clayton county taxes and should be afforded Clayton county schools—-fix the problems where the children are. LOUD AND CLEARLY, parents of Clayton County take responsibility for your children’s education, Board Members move aside, HOUSE REPRESENTATIVES taxpayers will be watching and sure not to re-elect you for passing the buck, literally. There is no room in other counties for another county problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Public School teacher

March 27, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this

catlady- I’m with you! I noticed that only one recall petition was submitted, and it didn’t have enough verifiable signatures!! HELLO—it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that the people of CC don’t care enough. It saddens me to see 400 show up to march but not one in the public eye since shouting the call. I would think that the recall petitions would have been pouring in by now. To say the least, the people of CC are reaping what they’ve sown and don’t seem to understand that they have the power to change it. No they’d rather wait for the state or someone else to come in and fix it for them. Let them have what they’ve created. Like you, my pity for them is over.

By Tony

March 27, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this

OK. Now we have seen there is an ugly side to the idea of school choice. As a principal of a school that does a good job with teaching children, I do not want our current students’ opportunities jeopardized at the expense of a sudden influx of educational refugees. And, yes, the idea of imposing school choice on surrounding counties would come at a huge cost to those counties. I doubt seriously that the state would be willing to pick up the tab.

I agree with jim d that it would be much better to allocate a few extra resources for Clayton County to help remedy the situation rather than having an open free-for-all school choice plan.

By jim d

March 28, 2008 5:14 AM | Link to this

just a couple of nagging questions.

What percentage of graduating CCPS students actually use Hope every year?

Wouldn’t any of these kids still be elgible for HOPE grants and or loans even if they don’t qualify for the scholarship?

By Lee

March 28, 2008 5:32 AM | Link to this

What does not kill us makes us stronger.

This too, shall pass.

Much like the fable of the boy who cried wolf, my patience for activists and politicians who use the “its for the children” mantra to pass ill-conceived laws and regulations is growing thin.

Knee jerk reactions such as passing laws and exemptions to allow Clayton students to flee to neighboring counties may avert a short term crisis, but as others have noted, this will only create additional problems for the host county.

Clayton, this is your problem. Deal with it.

By JustMe

March 28, 2008 7:32 AM | Link to this

I would like to point out to jim d and other regulars on this blog the responses of educators here on this issue. Please note that we seem to speak in unison….. and also note that you (after some admitted thought on your part) agree with us.

I was just wondering for jim d - how does it feel to be on the same side as us ‘teachers’ for once?

By DB

March 28, 2008 7:39 AM | Link to this

After reading the bios on the two people that Clayton County is mulling over for school superintendent, I am convinced that Clayton County MUST have some sort of bizarre death wish:

On one hand, you have Santiago Wood, who left Fresno with an $18 million deficit, 40 of his 84 schools in the bottom 10% of California schools, and was forced to resign, but managed to escape with a $489,000 buyout. Oh, and he took a $25,000 pay raise in the midst of paycuts and cut-backs. Sweet!

On the other hand, you have John Thompson, who apparently can’t get along with anyone, to the point of alienating Pittsburgh foundations so that they withdrew $3.5 million of school support, and figured that money was the only thing standing between him and success and requested a 22% property tax increase, against the school boards wishes. He and his assistant were caught mis-using their credit cards, and, finally, schools failed to meet AYP for two years in a row. Pittsburgh fired him, and right now, Clayton County seems to be the only school system interested in him.

Granted, though, they are probably at the point where no one highly qualified would want to have anything to do with the system.

By DB

March 28, 2008 8:03 AM | Link to this

jim d, in 2006, there were 1,298 Clayton County students eligible for the Hope scholarship, compared to an on-time graduation of 2,081 (that may be a touch low, assuming that there may be some kids who graduated “not on time” — i.e., those on the “five year plan” :-). One can assume that not all of these students chose to stay in-state, or may have chosen private schools over public schools:

http://tinyurl.com/2p9n9r

I still think that any form of assistance should be directed at just those that are rising seniors next year. They are the ones most directly impacted. And it should be Clayton County’s financial responsibility — no one else’s. 1,300 kids are a lot more manageable than 52,000!!

By V T

March 28, 2008 8:14 AM | Link to this

I am a Fayette County parent who has taught in Clayton middle schools. No, Fayette should not be required to accept Clayton Co. kids due to the massive amount of remedial support these kids will need and the fact that their parents will not have to pay one red cent of the cost for this remedial support- we, the Fayette County tax-payers will. If something could be worked out so that any student moving in will have to kick in for their education, I might change my mind. However, any Clayton County student coming into Fayette County schools needs to resign themselves to some frustration at first, because even the honor roll kids will need to do some catching up.

By vt

March 28, 2008 8:19 AM | Link to this

Tater - Fayette County High School in Fayetteville (aka the first stop for Clayton refugees) recently had it’s first gang fight. Fayetteville’s definitely feeling the effect.

By Ernest

March 28, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this

Many of the postings seem to consistently overlook the negative economic impact of the Clayco schools losing accreditation would have on the metro area and state. Even recently there was a ‘tax payer bailout’ of Bear Stearns because the Feds did not want citizens to lose confidence in our financial institutions. I cannot see a scenario in which the state would allow Clayco to lose accreditation. Imagine what would happen to our ability to attract new businesses is part of our infrastructure is broken. Just based on NCLB, school districts around the state would have to accept Clayco students if they lose accreditation. Sure, there is a LOT of blame to go around with this situation but at the end of the day, we will ALL pay the price if it is not accredited.

By jim d

March 28, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this

actually Jm i probably agree with some teachers more often than not.

would you mind responding to my blog entry of 2:18 PM yesterday? i would repost it but you sometimes seem to take offense to being asked more than once.

By V for Vendetta

March 28, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this

OK, last post from me on this issue …

Based on the information we’ve acrued so far, it seems to me that the people of Clayton (the vast majority, anyway) seem to care very little about education and, consequently, their children. To me, it’s obvious that the (majority) of people in CC live in a cultural vacuum and enjoy being bottom-feeders in society. You know the old saying about a horse and drinking water …

Forget Clayton County. That’s right, forget it. The economic impact it has on the metro area will not be as great as some people fear. Treat it as a quarantine zone, and avoid it at all costs. The more information that comes out about this situation, the more pity I cease to have on their behalf.

Another thought: to the (very, very) few kids who might actually have bright futures, I’ll say this: your parents have screwed you over big time. Don’t tell me that they didn’t notice things going down the tubes. Don’t tell me that this hasn’t been going on for years. Don’t tell me that there wasn’t chances to move before the bottom fell out of the housing market. I cry BS to all that.

ALL OF YOU had your chance. ALL OF YOU. You reap what you sow. These are the terrible consequences. You deal with them and leave the rest of us alone. In life, there are always those who just don’t get it until they learn the lesson the hard way.

Case in point: Clayton County

By Tater

March 28, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

flipper and V

I was making a spoof on JustMe and her, treating everyone fairly mantra.

I absolutely agree with both of you. People are different and those who want to succeed should not be penalized for a moronic school system….

vt Expect more violence in neighboring school districts outside the county. The kids are who they are. Great work parents in Clayton County who allow their kids to be out of control.

jim d Had to go out of the loop after the post to JustMe. It is amazing to me how much support and faith she has placed in Clayton County Schools and the board to do the right thing. Will NEVER happen in that county.

By Tater

March 28, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

flipper and V

I was making a spoof on JustMe and her, treating everyone fairly mantra.

I absolutely agree with both of you. People are different and those who want to succeed should not be penalized for a moronic school system….

vt Expect more violence in neighboring school districts outside the county. The kids are who they are. Great work parents in Clayton County who allow their kids to be out of control.

jim d Had to go out of the loop after the post to JustMe. It is amazing to me how much support and faith she has placed in Clayton County Schools and the board to do the right thing. Will NEVER happen in that county.

By catlady

March 28, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

Another thing: we need to think about short vs long term goals. Short term, the tendency might be to bail out CCS, but long term, is THAT what you want to be teaching? Screw stuff up real badly and you will be bailed out by the munificient government (ie taxpayers like you and me who had nothing to do with your poor choices?) We see examples of this everywhere. When will we see that IT DOESN’T WORK?

By JustMe

March 28, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

jd - I didn’t respond to your 2:18 post because you stated in a previous blog that you had already narrowed down the schools where I may teach. In actuality, it doesn’t matter where I teach: public vs. private, school system, etc. I am an educated adult with experience in both the corportate world and in education. I pay property taxes and income taxes. I vote and have lived in GA for most of my life. That should be enough of a background for you to know where I am coming from.

By jim d

March 28, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Yeah right,

I knew you wouldn’t answer.You’re probably not even a teacher. Not much of one anyway with all the time you spend on this blog! BTW are you being paid with tax dollars to blog?

By PHJ

March 28, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

I don’t recall any of this crowd in Clayton County being elected unanimously. That is allright though. You can continue to lump us all in one bucket if it makes you feel superior. You are not going to get enough signatures for a recall from registered voters who didn’t bother to vote in the first place. I personally would never send my children (if I had children) to another school system not supported by my taxes. Nor will any parent who loves their child. These children will be ostracized by the kids and mistreated by the teachers. They will have very little chance for success, wherever they go, through no fault of their own. SB 458 should never have been passed. It is unfair to everyone concerned. Why did more people not get involved enough to let their representatives know they did not support this bill? Please remember that while you are looking down on ALL of the people of Clayton County, someone else is looking down on you.

By Wyla

March 29, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this

Vote State Senator Valencia Seay out of office.

By Sick of it all

April 1, 2008 4:39 AM | Link to this

What makes you think that most Clayton County students are academically behind ? My child is a middle school HONOR STUDENT whose reading level is equivalent to a college junior’s. She consistently tests exceptionally well on standardized tests in ALL areas. After reading some of these posts, I bet she’s smarter than a lot of you in Fayette and Henry.

Also, most of these BOE members were not voted in because of our confidence in them. We were voting them in because of our lack of confidence in the previous incumbents. You people voted for law enforcement officers who are later convicted on child molestation and spew sex talk on county owned computers. According to your logic, I guess you guys are just as DUMB as us!

By Learn how to read, please!

April 2, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

TATER, JustMe was saying why OTHERS would be willing to take a kid… Corrupt districts would carefully hand-pick the Clayton students, looking for ONLY a superb athlete or academic (is there one?), and then would brag about how kind it was of the system to accept the student(s). Excellent point. Why did you think JustMe was giving a personal opinion? He/she was talking about what WOULD happen.

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