Get Schooled

By Jeff

March 20, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

Simple. Quit proclaiming schools to be ‘weapon free’ zones. Allow teachers who already have a Concealed Carry Permit to have their guns in their classrooms (though even I would insist that the weapon be secured, preferrably in a single-gun case similar to the old VCR rewinder machines. Versions of them are on the market that have either fingerprint recognition or a covered keypad tha the whole hand is inserted into.)

Then, these idiots that bring guns to school with the intention of harming others would have to think twice, as they never know if they’re going to have the 15 minutes (minimum) it would take the police/SWAT teams to deal effectively with the situation or if they’re going to have the two seconds it takes for the teacher to take the gun out of its secure location, aim, and fire.

The worst shootings at a school campus thus far have only claimed 30 of the thousands of lives on campus. A single person (as most shooters are) can only carry so much ammunition, and even then a magazine only holds so many rounds before a reload is needed. As anyone who has ever been in a combat situation knows, that gunman is as vulnerable as he is going to get in that 30 seconds or so it takes him to eject the spent magazine and load the new one. Which allows AMPLE opportunity for Bubba or Deondre (who happen to be starting linebackers for the football team) to plant the guy and disarm him.

Any life lost is a tragedy, but parents tend to get FAR too worried about these things. Your kid is FAR more likely to get killed in a wreck driving to/from school/school function than to ever even SEE a gun on campus.

And unlike driving, where even the most careful of defensive drivers can be randomly killed, school shootings are something that are EASY to deal with once the situation is set in motion.

By Tater

March 20, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

Jeff, great post. Would like to add that the student who made the threats be expelled from school.

Let mama and daddy take care of junior’s education.

By Jeff

March 20, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

Tater:

Actually, I would ship the kid off to an alternative school. If they can reach him, excellent. If they can’t, he’ll eventually do something stupid and wind up in prison somewhere. In either case, the specific instance of this threat has been dealt with, and he has been put in an environment which is MUCH more secure than any mainstream school can ever hope to be.

By Tater

March 20, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

Jeff, I think that is a very good solution. Did you read how much angst he caused the students, parents, administration and the police…

By Jeff

March 20, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

Tater:

I once caused just as much, if not more.

And yet I was reached by an alternative school.

As I said in last week’s discussion of alternative schools, if I could be reached, ANYONE can be.

I agree this kid needs to spend some time away from the mainstream school. His actions are completely wrong for that environment, and he needs to be taught both that and how/why not to do it again. Which is EXACTLY what alternative schools are there for.

By JustMe

March 20, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

When I was young (yes, it has been a while), parents restricted what was given to their children. Parents made decisions on what was appropriate for their children. Parents did not provide their child with items they felt were inappropriate, were harmful (physically, emotionally, etc.), and so on. Parents acted as a filter by making informed and cognitive decisions for their child.

Today, it seems parents feel that they must provide their child with everything. There is really no filter by the parents. Some new technology comes to the market, and parents rush to buy their children cell phones, ipods, whatever. And, therein lies the problem.

Schools (public, private, whatever) may try to maintain somewhat of a sense of order so that learning may occur. They may try to restrict cell phones that would ring in the middle of class. They may try to restrict text messages during tests to prevent cheating. However, schools get NO support from most parents - and children see this (they are not stupid).

So, children feel empowered to do whatever they want with whatever comes out from the market without any consequences. The result? Outrageous and alarming false claims from children that end up in the ajc and/or on the 6 o’clock news. Slanderous and malicious false statements and accusations on the internet against respectable adults. And, I fear it will only get worse if it goes unchecked.

The most that ever happened when I was young was a kid may pull the fire alarm to avoid taking a test.

By don

March 20, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

sounds to me like they need to take that boy out behind the woodshed. probably need to take his momma and daddy too. as for the rumor mills, there were always rumors about this or that back when i was in school. we didn’t have cell phones but the rumors still got around, but God help me if i ever skipped school or left early i would have (and on a few occassions did) tote a @$$whippin’ for cutting school. i don’t understand how kids can just up and leave or stay home without parental permission, which seems to be the first of many problems here. i also don’t see the need for a kid to have a cell phone at school period. you’re there to learn, not text and talk to your buddies. as for taking the threats seriously, i reckon in this day and age you have to take all of the rumors seriously and investigate them as legit until you find out otherwise.

By Old School

March 20, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

“Today, it seems parents feel that they must provide their child with everything. There is really no filter by the parents. Some new technology comes to the market, and parents rush to buy their children cell phones, ipods, whatever. And, therein lies the problem.” Could it be that many of the “parents” were teen parents themselves and possibly were “parented” by teens as well? Until someone steps up and demands that parenting skills be taught to our teenage “parents” (male and female), there will be only the decline we’ve witnessed over the past 20 or so years.

Jeff, I can see some sense in your earlier post. I remember the days when no one thought twice about the shotguns in the students’ pickup trucks other than to wonder how successful the deer hunting was or when they were going again. Not once in the 60’s, 70’s or even 80’s did we have a gun incident on campus. Then came the 90’s and we’ve had several since then.

I just don’t think I’d carry even if I could (and no, that’s not a typo…that’s what we call it.)

By Old School

March 20, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

don, I have to daughters who are now 32 and 28. Whenever they get together, I learn of more exploits and adventures that they had in high school/college that I never knew about at all. Fortunately, there was never anything life-threatening or illegal.

Parents don’t know what their children get into when they are out of sight. One can only hope that the kids have learned to do the right thing (if they have been taught right from wrong and that behavior is consistently modeled for them by their parent(s).

As for taking a cell phone away, down here, kids have phones their parents know nothing about. We teachers take them up, put them in the office vault, and they are never claimed. And those parents come to pick the phones up have the same story: my child NEEDS this phone for emergencies (like texting their PARENTS and friends, ordering takeout, etc.)

The rumors will always fly far and fast. Everyone seens to want to be the first to get the story out.

By Jason

March 20, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

A gang member text messaging a threat? That’s pretty gay. “omg - totes gonna shoot peeps b4 skoolz out - g2g :(“

By JJ

March 20, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

What we are seeing right now, is a direct result of teachers not being allowed to disclipine kids in school. Also, a result of parents not being able to disclipine their kids, they want to be friends, not parents and they are afraid of making the kid mad. Back in my day, in the principal kept a paddle in his office and he knew how to use it. Once he was finished, then we had to face our parents. Nothing worse in the world than hearing “Wait till your father gets home”. We were terrified to be summoned to the Principal’s office.

As a single parent, I am unable to give my daughter EVERYTHING she wants (even if I did have a ton of money, I would still make her earn things). I come from the old school, and if she wants something, she has to work for it and EARN it. She wants a Coach purse, get a job; she wants a car this summer, she has to get a job and help pay for the car, the insurance and the maintenance.
Also, kids today don’t know how to solve arguments. We use to use our fists, now the little pansies run and grab daddy’s gun and go on killing rampages. Where are these kids parents? I know just about everything my child is doing, along with who she is doing it with. I am an involved parent. I know her friends, and her friend’s parents. Come on people, get a grip. Kids need adults and boundries, not left to roam alone and get into trouble with the wrong group.

Jeff I cannot wait until you and T start having kids. I want you to print all your posts here and in the Mom blog, and put them in a notebook. Then consult that notebook once the little ones arrive. You will see a huge difference…..

By Ernest

March 20, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

Sounds like the school system responded correctly in this situation. This probably falls under ‘cyber bullying’ in the discipline brochures in most system as the result was disruption of the school environment.

Interesting points to consider in general, do we need to be concerned about ‘Free speech’ violations? IMO, there are still some gray areas with regards to the technology age we are in. If text messages are sent while off school grounds that ‘suggest’ causing harm, at what point can you do something?

Columbine definitely changed how we view students with cell phones. I remember when many thought the only kids with cell phones were drug runners but now it has become the norm. Factor in what cell phones can do now and you really have to pause and think what could be done with them.

By Tater

March 20, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

Jeff If T is me, I have two. I agree with your statement that parents are trying to be friends with their kids.

By don

March 20, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

old school as a parent of 4 myself, i know kids will get into alot behind parents backs. I know i did my share of things that mom and dad never found out about, but that’s not because they weren’t vigilant. it was usually because i had gotten caught so many times before i’d finally figure out how to get away with something. my 10 yr old asked me for a cell phone this past christmas. after laughing hysterically for a few minutes i said no. she gave me the old “everyone else has one!” i reminded her that i don’t have a cell phone. she retorted that i could have one if i wanted. i pointed out that i don’t need one because my wife, to whom i report through the chain of command, always knows where i am, just like i, as my daughters father, should always know where she is, and therefore no cell phone is needed. she again informed me that all of her friends had cell phones. i told her that, if all of her friends had a cell phone, and she absolutely had to make an emergency call, she should have no trouble borrowing a cell phone from one of those friends. she was highly upset christmas morning when she found a plastic, cell phone shaped container with bubble gum in it. she told me she was too old for kids candy. i told her to give it to her little sister. her little sister got excited. my oldest daughter said it was hers, it wasn’t fair that she should have to give it to her little sister. i pointed out that it was unfair to throw it away just because she was too old. she told me she’d keep it. her little sister was sad. i don’t think i’m ready for a teenage daughter. :(

By Stacey

March 20, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

I grew up in a somewhat small factory town and was in high school in the 80’s. I remember one bomb threat ever and (if I remember correctly) someone call the largest of the factories and said that there was a bomb in the high school. Word spread factory to factory and the next thing you know, we had 200 parents in an hours’ time there to pick up their kids. No one at the school even knew what was going on until the parents started showing up. By the end of the day, there were only about 75 kids left on campus. My mom picked me up 30 minutes before the buses ran and I was grounded for not calling her and letting her know “about the bomb” (she no longer worked and didn’t hear about it until then).

I went to college in a town with a military base and bomb threats were almost a weekly occurrance. Threats at the base meant that the school was also put on alert and visa versa. Even the students hated those because they always seemed to come around the same time every Thursday which meant the same class was (usually) disrupted. This was before cellphones and text messaging.

By JJ

March 20, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

Don Hold on and strap yourself in, life with teenage girls is a ride like I have never experienced (Six Flags ain’t got nothing compared to a 17 year old with hormones). My daughter is 17 and I never know what kind of mood she will be in. And it changes every minute. Last night she was just as sweet as she could be, talkative, and comes watches tv with me, loving the doggies, etc. This morning, when I woke her up, I had no idea where this child came from, but she wasn’t the same child I watched tv with last night……..Day and night is all I can say, and good luck.

By Tony

March 20, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

School responded appropriately, and yes, the child should be expelled and sent to alternative school. Another factor that should be included in cases like this is remuneration being charged. Events like this are extremely disruptive. These days, texting is not the only way to communicate quickly. Imagine a post on someone’s myspace page. Maybe even the old-fashioned phone coversation could relay the information.

We do not need to shun technological advances just because someone, somewhere misuses it. Worse than having events like this happen is the knee-jerk overreaction that can follow.

By JustMe

March 20, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

Tony - I agree that we don’t need to shun technological advances. However, we do need to manage them properly. As with ALL technology, it needs to be in the proper hands and used with wisdom. Technology in the wrong hands and/or at the wrong time can be dangerous, right?

By HS Teacher Too

March 20, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

jim d — if you are there, what is your/your son’s take on what happened yesterday at MCHS? We also live in that cluster and this is troubling to me, but I would like to know more about what happened.

By GC Parent

March 20, 2008 5:50 PM | Link to this

I have a question…bear with me.

I did a little research (and that is scary because I don’t know if my information is accurate)but I read that a “disruption of a public school” is a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature.Like a regular misdemeanor, a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature can only carry a sentence up to 12 months in jail. However, if you receive a jail sentence, the maximum good time credit you can get per month is only 4 days. In other words, in a month with 30 days, you will have to do 26.

So, I know juveniles don’t go to jail, but I think they can go to a youth detention facility.

So here is my question. The media reported Peachtree Ridge filed criminal charges. I hear that many bloggers think the student should be “expelled” or sent to an alternative school…how many think he/she should spend a year in a youth detention facility as well ?

Just curious.

By Tony

March 20, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

GC Parent - If the police/sheriff/GBI does the investigative work, it can be very likely the youth goes to jail. If school employees did the investigation, it is very unlikely. Schools have wide latitude in searches and seizures. Unfortunately, we also do not have to bear the burden of evidentiary rules required for court proceedings. However, this gives us an advantage in keeping riff-raff out of our schools.

If the student does jail time, the school will be able to impose its punishment after he is released. That would keep him out of the school much longer.

By jim d

March 21, 2008 5:13 AM | Link to this

Alternative school my Arse!

Making terroristic threats is a CRIME—-Take th gloves off and treat the kid as any other adult, try him—if convicted—send his little punk arse to jail in accordance with the damn law.

Wanna know why kids continue to do this crap? Because they know nothing is really going to happen.

By jim d

March 21, 2008 5:25 AM | Link to this

Teach too

what went down went down,

It is being dealt with and rightly so. Markham don’t put up with this kind of thing—-never has.

as for the video? hey it is clearer than the schools and is being used to identify. Besides, these thugs generally obscure the school cameras when something is about to go down.

I will tell you this. I’m pretty confident this wasn’t the worst incident ever at MCH, but It may have well been the worst case of students actually intentionally blocking teachers from breaking it up.

Proper actions are being taken and I have confidence in Markham to get it done.

By Mom

March 21, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this

Can you please research the Credit Recovery procedure that is being offered to allow students to make up lost credits.

Our school is allowing kids that don’t want to take a class from certain teachers (they are very good, but thorough teachers) to take the credit recovery classes to avoid any classes they don’t want to sit in for a semester. Many are taking tests within 2 weeks of the Credit Recovery class and getting out of the class all together. Is this legal??

By Lee

March 21, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this

::shrug::

I, for one, would like to read the actual text messages before I throw the kid under the bus. In this day of principals expelling students for Tweety Bird key chains, I have lost confidence in the ability of school officials to do the right thing.

…and law enforcement officials aren’t any better (remember the Duke rape case?).

Given the events at Mills Creek, maybe this kid was on to something… or maybe he was the cause of something. We’ll never know. The records will be sealed.

By terry

March 21, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

Same thing happened in Forsyth County couple weeks ago

By anon

March 21, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

So Jim Guess you are a proponent of the school to jail pipeline.

That’s what i figured anyway

By jim d

March 21, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

anon,

only for the ones that can’t live within the law.

We slap their hands and say oh my because they are teens. In most countries teens are considered adults in the eyes of the law. We need to quit coddling these pukes and get them off the streets and out of the schools. If that supports your school to jail pipeline premise, then yes I support it.

By GC Parent

March 21, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

So I think the legal definition of a “terroristic threat” is having evidence and the ability to carry out the threat. The jail term for that is 1-5 years. That is actually a felony. So I go back to my first question..for violating the law of “disruption of a public school”, different crime than terroristic threat. The school system already concluded that there was no evidence to signify that the student was capable of committing the violent act, so that is not what the student is charged with. Do you think a student who sent a text which caused a school disruption should spend a year in a youth detention facility ?

By jim d

March 21, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

30 days wouldn’t hurt the little sh*t and would set an example for future threats.

By alt teacher

March 22, 2008 7:56 AM | Link to this

I think that many of you miss the point. Teenagers naturally rebel and try to find their individuality. They also do not always think reasonably—-research has shown that. I think that many of you are also in denial about your own teenage years. Kids do dumb things and make mistakes. Today the system is less forgiving AND REMEMBER—-Many are never caught. Those that are caught are sent to alternative school and branded. They made bad decisions and were caught. AND we have social ills that the children are victims of—-if kids have abusive or neglectful parents, they do the best they can. Why would we blame the victim. They are children. If anyone who is posting is a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu and speaks this hate/vengeance speak against children, that person is not speaking from his/her religion but rather the opposite. I am Christian and was taught to have compassion. I do not read it in some of these posts. Concerning the text messages at GC schools and the fight at Mill Creek: the policy to have these huge schools is insane. It is not good for the children or for teaching. The Gates Foundation is funding smaller schools because it works. Children need relationships with their teachers and peers, not these huge warehouses. These big schools are not safe. They are problems just waiting to explode. The kids that created these problems are just kids. They are not thugs, gangsters, bad kids. The county needs to have a system that actually teaches all kids the best way. If all children were really considered, we could stop building jails and locking our doors. Those of you that think jail is a good option, remember that most will get out and will have learned how to be criminals and will prey on you. The most sensible/ethical/right thing to do is to work with all our power to reach all children to keep them from jail. Without our children, who are our future, we, the USA, will fail. I am also a mother. I cannot speak with such hatred and lack of understanding about “OUR CHILDREN”.

By GC Parent

March 22, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

Good for you atl teacher for standing up for kids…finally some sense.

Our communities and parents are uninformed by our educational leaders and have not yet closely examined the failings of our alternative school systems and the associated juvenile charges and sentences that accompany typical, non violent student actions.

I hope that the media begins to report on the actual juvenile sentencing guidelines for these violations that the school resource officers are filing.

Maybe then people will stop and think that our disciplinary system which has bled into our juvenile justice system has overstepped its bounds.

By OldSchool

March 22, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

To the Mom asking about credit recovery: Have you called or visited your child’s school and asked THEM about credit recovery? At our school, the admin in charge and our guidance department can explain how it works.

In the meantime, is your student truly working hard on passing in the first place or just doing enough to score just high enough to avoid the regular work. Is credit recovery just the easy way out for your child? There is NO way I would let my child do credit recovery. In fact, my child repeated a college course when her grade was not high enough for her major. I wanted my children armed with the best education possible upon which they have built successful careers. There is no shortcut.

I’m not completely behind credit recovery at our school. I’ll wait to form a better opinion when I see how “recovered” students perform on the mandated EOCT and GHSGT. That ought to be interesting!

By fed up parent.

March 22, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

KUDOS TO ALT TEACHER

I am so glad you said it. I was getting so frustrated from some of the posts from ‘educators’ and I use that term loosely.

My child was an ‘at risk’ youth. He now is a successful member of society. But it was no thanks to Public Schools whatsoever. His ‘recovery’ was from private mentoring and our church. I am sick and tired of the ‘educators’ on this blog barking barking and barking, with their comments.

Large schools are failing. Public education is failing. And the educators that sit around this blog site complaining only shows the problem and no solution.

By Terry

March 22, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

Jim d

Have you EVER made a mistake when you were a teen?

By Monise

March 23, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

JJ,

I will agree with the statement made about teachers not being able to discipline students. I will diasagree with your statement about parents not discipling children. There are some parents who do and some who do not. Furthermore, the fact that some school officials view discipline differently than parents also causes a problem. A student could go to school and report abuse (false) and DFACS swoops in to save the day. The entire school knows about this claim and the parent does not want to ever return to the school again. The result: the kid can do whatever he or she wants, knowing they will not be punished. How do we solve this? By recognizing that different cultures have different ways of disciplining their children (DO NOT READ AS ABUSING BECAUSE THERE IS A DIFFERENCE). I will not tolerate my children talkign back to me the way I have seen some kids do their parents…and my kids know that. but agin, cultural differences severely limit how we can parent our kids when we are in a diverse environment. Oddly enough, when I was teaching parents expected to me to handle any issues arising in the classroom (which I did not mind because as a parent, I do not want some teacher calling/emailing me everyday about some behavior problem in THEIR clasroom). We need to restore parents’ rights to be parents if we want to solve these problems. The next time you see a kid get popped in the mouth by a parent, don’t judge-be grateful because they parent could have just prevented that child from robbing/shooting/stabbing you 5 years down the road.