Get Schooled

By Tater

March 17, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

Excellent job Clayton County. You have, once again, proven what a total lack of leadership you have in government. Once again government has FAILED the students that it is supposed to serve.

Does anyone wonder why I’m such a strong supporter of vouchers and private schools?

If you live in Clayton County MOVE as fast as you can. The school system will NOT improve, ever. Clayton County joins one other school district, Fresno, CA., as being the only two districts without accreditation.

I congratulate you Clayton County school members for confirming what a bunch of idiots you are!!

By Tater

March 17, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this

JustMe

Can’t wait for your comments on this one….

By Tater

March 17, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this

JustMe

Can’t wait for your comments on this one….

By V for Vendetta

March 17, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this

No. Newsflash to the rest of Georgia: we have problems all over. We can’t be worrying ourselves with Clayton’s problems.

Sorry kids. Your parents screwed you over big time. You have no one to blame but them.

By Ernest

March 17, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

I thought I read last week that Governor Perdue endorsed Senate legislation that would still provide HOPE scholarships to students in school systems that are not accredited by SACS. Check out the following Senate legislation at: SB 480 I’d welcome someone else’s interpretation on this if I am incorrect. If true, this is a ‘life line’ to that school system.

I disagree with V’s comments. What affects Clayton impacts the rest of the metro area and the state. Quality of school systems is a ‘check off’ item business use to determine where to establish operations. I believe if we take an ‘isolationism’ type of attitude, we will all suffer in the long run. Yes, Clayton County citizens have an obligation to get their house in order but those of us not in Clayton should also be tuned in to the developments there.

By mmm

March 17, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

The sins of the fathers will be visited upon the children to the third generation….

I wish it weren’t true, but denial does not change it.

By Thunder Noodle

March 17, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

Let’s see, we criticize their ludicrous choices for school board, and they cry racism. Their accreditation is threatened, and they cry racism. We urge them to impeach or otherwise remove the sorry, worthless people they elected to the school board, and they cry racism. We talk about the state taking over the district, and they cry racism. No matter what else we try to do, we’ll hear the same refrain.

This reminds me of nothing more than a child stuggling to tie his shoes, utterly botching the job, and every time a parent tries to intervene, the child screams, “No! I want to do it!” … and half an hour later, the shoes remain untied.

Nah, I think the rest of us have to sit this one out. Sometime you just gotta learn the hard way.

By posterchild

March 17, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

Quick aside: can anyone deny/confirm teachers not having their years credited while working in a system without accreditation?

By peachykeen

March 17, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

Posterchild, years toward retirement benefits won’t be affected for future. But years worked in the system during a loss of accreditation will not count toward salary steps, that is, if any other county would even hire someone coming from a non-accredited system.

By posterchild

March 17, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

Peachykeen, thanks. I have a lot of friends/relatives who have worked in CCPS for a while, and I was wondering how this would affect them.

By HS Teacher Too

March 17, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

The whole thing is unfair, for everyone from the students to the teachers. The only people who “deserve” anything are the administrators and the school board, but the repercussions for them seem to be little more than slaps on the wrist. Tater, although I usually agree with you, come on now. It isn’t as easy as deciding to move today and being gone tomorrow, and we all know it. Your “sucks for you” stance is fine but we have to be realistic as well. I know you said “as fast as you can,” but now that the schools have lost their accreditation, that might be close to impossible. What’s a person to do? (And I don’t say this shrugging my shoulders as if to ask for pity. I’m serious. What’s a person to do, in an already-depressed housing market, now with this added factor?)

but Laura, I have to say that whike the kids of Clayton are “screwed,” it’s up to their parents to work towards a solution. Home schooling, private schools, finding a way to move, sending the kids to live with family elsewhere … there are lots of options, and as V said, there are problems everywhere.

By JustMe

March 17, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

Although it may not be the fault of the students, it is the fault of the parents. It is the parents that vote. It is the parents that should be involved with the BOE.

Do children pay the price for the sins of the parents? Usually. Is it fair? Rarely.

My crystal ball says that Clayton will lose its accreditation. Then, a new Board will be installed by the State and clean house. It may take a year, but Clayton County will then gain their accreditation and everything will be fine….. at least until the voters in Clayton again elect idiots. Have the voters learned their lesson? That is the question.

This will impact one year’s worth of students that graduate in Clayton County. My heart goes out to them. Is it their fault? No. Will they pay the price? Yes.

This will also impact one year’s worth of retirement for any teacher that remains in Clayton. Is it their fault? No. Will they pay the price? Yes.

By Tater

March 17, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

HS Teacher Too

Why do you condemn me in your first paragraph and then say it’s up to their parents to work towards a solution. Home schooling, private schools, finding a way to move, sending the kids to live with family elsewhere in your second?

I know the housing market is depressed, however parents need to make a choice. Not an easy one and I sympathize with the parents who have students in that pathetic school district. The government has shown its ineptness in dealing with an issue that will affect thousands of students, parents and teachers.

What is a person to do? Exactly what you state in your second paragraph.

By Tater

March 17, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

JustMe It has already been stated that Clayton will lose their accreditation, no crystal ball needed.

So, are you in favor of school choice now? Put yourself in the shoes of a Clayton County parent and tell me what would you do?

Clayton county will NOT gain back their accreditation in a year when the State will clean house. Do you honestly believe that the State of GA is better in dealing with this situation?

By another teacher

March 17, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

As a teacher in another district, my heart goes out to those at the lower levels affected by this, including students, and all local school staff. Hopefully when all is said and done, Clayton will bounce back and a new, competent school board will be elected by the folks that live there. Hopefully these concerned parents will take more active roles in any parent-teacher associations that their local schools have esatblished. This “cut and run” attitude may be fine for now but schools everywhere have their problems. Parents and even community members need to step up and be heard with their concerns. There is no reason why a PTA meeting can’t come close to the attendance that high school football games have.

By another teacher

March 17, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

As a teacher in another district, my heart goes out to those at the lower levels affected by this, including students, and all local school staff. Hopefully when all is said and done, Clayton will bounce back and a new, competent school board will be elected by the folks that live there. Hopefully these concerned parents will take more active roles in any parent-teacher associations that their local schools have esatblished. This “cut and run” attitude may be fine for now but schools everywhere have their problems. Parents and even community members need to step up and be heard with their concerns. There is no reason why a PTA meeting can’t come close to the attendance that high school football games have.

By JustMe

March 17, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

Tater

Um, no. Again, you cannot read proper. The vote states that Clayton County is on track to lose its accreditation on Sept. 1. It is now middle March. There are many months to go in which the BOE can complete the 9 required items to remain accredited.

And, as I said, IMHO the State will come in with new BOE to try to accomplish those 9 items to save accreditation. They may make the corrections by Sept. 1, in which case they keep their accreditation. Or, they will not and lose their accreditation.

If they do loose the accreditation, as I said, my crystal ball shows that it will take about 1 year to fix things to the satisfaction of SACS.

Finally, to answer your question, no I am not in favor of school choice, as you define it. The choice here was made by the parents in Clayton County to vote in the idiots on the BOE. The choice here was made by the parents to not be involved with the BOE every step of the way. The parents made the choice. This is how I define school choice.

By Stop Child Abuse Now!

March 17, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

Anybody that sends their children to any government school is guilty of child abuse. No if, no ands, no buts about it. A Government education is taught by the bottom of the barrel students who fall back to an education degree and is taught to the lowest common denominator in the class. Government does not want an educated populace otherwise we wouldn’t vote for them time and time again. Parents, get your kids out of government schools now at whatever cost it may be - give up your fancy cars, get rid of the cable TV, get rid of the cell phones and stop going out to eat, sell your over sized McMansions anything to get you child into a quality PRIVATE school that really wants to educate your child!

By Tater

March 17, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

JustMe

Answer the question. What would YOU DO as a parent of a Clayton County student?

Might want to get some windex for that crystal ball, they will lose accreditation, no doubt about it… Another embarrassment to this state. Where are we now, 46th or 47th in the nation of having the worst schools.

By don

March 17, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

I figure all of this will lead to Clayton County turning into a great place to live. Let me ‘splain.

Everyone is going to be moving out of CC as quick as they can (a great number will end up in Stockbridge and neighboring areas). The housing market in CC will hit rock bottom with no accredited school system, then baby Boomers and Gay and Lesbian couples (without kids and no need to worry about the school system) will move in to CC nabbing up bargain buys on houses, remodel them like all them people on TLC and HGTV and CC will be a beautiful place to live with brightly colored houses, well manicured lawns, and lots of boutiques named after places and characters in Gone With The Wind. :)

By catlady

March 17, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

I don’t think teachers and their retirement credit would be affected. Retirement is “taken out of” our check, and the local board pays their share. It has NOTHING to do with accreditation. (by my understanding).

I THINK system-wide accreditaion is a fairly new thing. Someone can advise us on that. There is also school level accreditation. Accreditation at the school level used to be non automatic—you really had to put out some effort to be accredited by SACS. Now, it seems to be pro forma—just for looks, at least at the school level.

I am still puzzled about claims of what loss of SACS accreditation would do. I truly think there has been a smokescreen put up about the true ramifications to students, but so far no one in the AJC (where are our investigative reporters?) seems to have addressed this. Don’t kids get HOPE who do not go to SACS accredited schools (private and homeschools?) Don’t places other than public schools offer prek (private day care centers, for example) who are not accredited by SACS (altho those numbers may be limited in how many slots they have)? How many Clayton students last year applied to colleges who absolutely require SACS or other national accreditation—colleges who do not, under any circumstances, accept home schooled and private schooled students? WHY doesn’t someone LOOK INTO THIS and see if these worst case senarios are TRUE?!?

By JustMe

March 17, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

Tater Your stupidity continues. You never asked me that question: “What would YOU DO as a parent of a Clayton County student?” This is the first time that you asked that question and I will answer honestly…. I don’t know. I honestly don’t know what I would do. I believe that I would wait and see what happens towards the end of the summer. Then, I would have to analyze my finances to see if I could afford to send my child(ren) to private school. I would also have to consider the age(s) of my child(ren). If they are in elementary school, I feel certain that Clayton County would become accredited before they reach high school - so there would be no problem. However, it’s hard to answer for sure unless I was in that situation.

Also, your State ranking is based on what? Please share.

By V for Vendetta

March 17, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

don, LOL

Tater, I agree. Children’s education is more important than anything, and I would endure a horrible commute, a tiny apartment, and a cramped existence if it meant that my child was receiving a top-notch eduction. Here’s the sad thing: I am willing to bet the number of people that move out of CC is not as great as one would think. I am willing to bet that their true view on education will be seen in the next few months by the LACK of people that leave the county.

You’re right, there are no excuses. When it comes to your kids education, you just have to find a way. The same holds true with affording private school tuition. No excuses, Clayton. It’s time to do right by your kids.

For once.

By posterchild

March 17, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

Don: I have been waiting for this scenario for the past decade. Maybe soon? I’d love to move back into my childhood home.

Stop Child Abuse Now: I don’t know about other teachers in “government” schools, but I graduated high school with 5 AP exams under my belt, then graduated from UGA with honors in 3 years. I have corporate experience and have worked in a private school. The grass is not always greener. While I can understand your message, I can’t support your blanket statement that no public school cares about your child’s education, nor can I agree with your “bottom of the barrel” stance on teachers.

I am not sure if the students of Clayton are “owed” anything by those outside the district. I think the Board owes a lot of apologies to a lot of people, and then the voters of the County owe it to themselves and their families to cast an educated vote.

By JustMe

March 17, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

Stop Child Abuse Now! Your alarmist post is really stupid. You and Tater are 2 peas in a pod (or the same pea?).

Check out these OUTSTANDING Government schools in DeKalb County: Chamblee High School, Lakeside High School, Druid Hills High School, and so on…… in Gwinnett County: Parkview High School, and so on….. in Fulton County: Centennial High School, and so on…. I could name multiple Government schools that are outstanding by any measure.

However, you want to send some STUPID alarmist message that ALL public schools are bad???? Don’t be such an idiot.

By HS Teacher Too

March 17, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

Tater, maybe we misread each others’ posts. I took your post to say “move immediately,” which of course is not always possible, particularly in today’s market, and especially now in Clayton. If you look at what I posted, that’s what I was addressing. So, I don’t think the rest of my post was contradictory to that idea — my list of suggestions, you’ll note, said “finding a way to move,” which I meant with the implication of “however long it may take…” And maybe I wasn’t particularly clear about that.

You and I agree on the big picture. I just don’t think the hard-line “get out now!” is realistic. It’s more like “get out as fast as you can!” and that may not be so fast.

Hope that makes more sense.

By Tater

March 17, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

JustMe Ah, check the 12:03pm and 12:44pm posts specifically addressed to you.

You are an amazing woman resorting to the usual your stupidity continues postings. Amazing because, as an educator as you profess, your lack of a dialog with people who don’t agree with your support of public schools.

I wonder how you deal with the students in your school when they disagree with you. Are they stupid as well or idiots like you called Stop Child Abuse Now!

V I believe you are correct, the majority of CC parents will not move out of the county. It is what it is. If parents truly cared about their kids, they would move out of the county as fast as they could. Government never has worked, never will work.

By decaturparent

March 17, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this

Stop Child Abuse Now - Yep, I guess that’s why my two gifted kids are getting their butts kicked at public school everyday, but they also come home absolutely thrilled about all the cool stuff that they learned that day b/c most of the learning they do is not only rigorous but also hands-on and relevant. Guess I should stop abusing them like that and send them to the local Catholic school where they can do drill sheets all day.

I went to one of the best private schools in Charlotte. I did not get anywhere near the education that my kids are receiving in public school. My school was b-o-r-i-n-g and never taught us the connections between the subjects we took. I was never, ever excited about what I was learning.

Also, when I was in private school in high school…. some public school kids might drink a little beer now and then… but if you really wanted to get the good drugs - you got them from the private school kids - they were into the hardcore stuff. I didn’t even like to go to parties with my school friends b/c half the kids were smoking pot or worse.

My brother-in-law teaches at a top private school in the ATL today … he says that this is still the case.

Soooooo… there are some great private schools… but they “ain’t all dat.” There are also some awesome public schools… but again, they “ain’t all dat.” either.

My suggestion to you is to quit trying to save all of our children and go check you private school kids’ backpacks… you might be surprised what you find.

By Tater

March 17, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

HS Teacher Too

Yes, a little more clearer, thank you.

As you can tell I’m not a fan of government schools and believe that the children of Clayton County will continue to have an inferior education which will not only effect that county, but the state as well.

An uneducated electorate will be the demise of this country. People who believe that government is the answer to all of life’s problems….

Personal responsibility is lacking in this country, and the Clayton County BOE is just another example of this.

By Teacher, Too

March 17, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

I, too, take umbrage to the damning of all public schools and public school teachers.

I would wager that there are far more outstanding teachers then we ever hear about. We hear so much of the negative things that are happening around the state (justifiably so), and particularily CC, but there are so many positive things that are going on as well.

We have discussed ad nauseum what the roles parents and teachers should be, the lack of discipline, the lack of admin support for teachers…however, in the course of all the complaining, we neglect to mention the great kids that are in the state of Georgia. Not all is bad. We hear about public school students making perfect scores on the SAT and ACT ( yes, I am delighted to say that I taught one several years ago in Gwinnett that had a perfect SAT score). We have students that perform in academic competitions such as High Q- and who have beaten such esteemed private schools like Lovett and Westminster! Give our students and teachers some credit for what we do right!

I would also say the schools that are in distress are in low income areas. I have worked in three title one schools, and there are several commonalities among them: lack of parental support, lack of discipline and effort on the part of students, and lack of discipline options on the part of the admins. As a teacher, you do the best you can with what you get- some years it’s better than others.

You usually don’t see the same problems in more affluent areas, but that’s not to say that there aren’t problems in those schools either, just different ones.

By JustMe

March 17, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

Tater While I agree that personal responsibility is lacking in this Country, and the government shouldn’t be the answer to everything, I completely disagree with your mantra that all public schools are failures. When you continue to make sweeping statements, ignoring the many successful public schools, you make no sense at all and discredit your argument immediately.

By don

March 17, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

Tater Just want to point out that “a little more clearer” is gramatically incorrect. It should read “a little more clear” or “a little clearer”. Or at least, that’s what I learned in public school. :)

By JustMe

March 17, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

Here is a thought/idea that I might get on board with….

IF your local public school hasn’t made AYP for 4 years,

AND/OR your local public school isn’t accredited,

THEN, you can request a State voucher to your child equal to the amount that the State would have given your school system (which, by the way, is very little and shrinking per Perdue). This voucher can be used at any location other than your home school (with that schools agreement) AND you are responsible for all transportation. This would not apply to home-schooled kids.

Any/all other money (such as local property taxes, etc.) remain at the home school.

This would help out Clayton County students, immediately.

By Tater

March 17, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

JustMe

PLEASE answer my question about what you would do if your child was in a Clayton County School.

don

Thanks for the correction. Shouldn’t don be Don?. I believe Don is a proper name and should be capitalized.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

March 17, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

Laura,

Is there any reason the AJC hasn’t done a story on Norreese Haynes filing suit to retain his board seat (or for that matter the emails submitted as evidence that purport to show that Ericka Davis and Eldrin Bell consipred illegally to remove Haynes from the board?)

No matter where you stand on the issue, given the “blanket coverage” the AJC has given this story, one would think this lawsuit would be reported as well.

Laura, can you find out for us why it hasn’t been reported? (The Clayton News-Daily has reported it, and Megan Matteucci herself alluded to it, so it’s not like the AJC doesn’t know it’s out there)

Thanks

By JustMe

March 17, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

Tater See my post at 1:05 PM. Geez. Get a life.

By SET

March 17, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

I agree with mmmm and Thunder Noodle. In my business, I see children aged 1 to 30 wind up dead, diseased, traumatized and imprisoned because they had incompetent parents (the injury could have been avoided). Sometimes the incompetent parents loved the kids, sometimes they didn’t. Sometimes the players had a little help in immolating themselves, sometimes the “kids” ran into the fire.

The bottom line is that children are the canaries in the parents’ mines. That is the way life works. Do I feel pity for the children of this school? I certainly do not, at least not any more. You get tired of talking to people about those lawn chairs on Railroad Tracks. Think of this as evolution in action.

We are all living in very interesting times and things are about to get much more interesting. Save your pity, you are about to really need it.

By Tony

March 17, 2008 6:41 PM | Link to this

Should the government always bail out others when they get themselves in a mess? The cries of Katrina claim the federal government let down the people of New Orleans, yet the cities own leaders failed to utilize its own resources to evacuate the residents. (Anyone recall the photos showing dozens of school buses under water?) Currently, we are crying for the government to bailout all of those affected by the “mortgage crisis”. Yet, many of the borrowers knew they would not be able to make the payments on their mortgages and banks extended credit to people without sufficient incomes to meet basic lending criteria.

How does this compare to the crisis in Clayton? The state and the citizens of Clayton County have provided funds to the board of education for them to run the schools. The funds will still be provided - except possibly Federal funding on some programs. So, we are still paying for the students in Clayton to receive an education.

If I am called upon to lend my expertise in school management, I will be glad to go as part of a team for a visit to give recommendations. There are probably others who would do the same. Unfortunately, the biggest problems with this system lie at the very top - the board. This can only be fixed by the electorate of Clayton County. If teams like I suggested were called in, they would be guests of the local schools. The teams would only be making recommendations that Clayton schools could accept or reject.

The bottom line for this crisis is that we will all pay for the failed leadership of the Clayton Board of Education in some way. Until the parents and community that make up Clayton County gets their act together and holds the board of education accountable, it will not matter what we do to help them.

By CCPS Student

March 17, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

I am a clayton county school student and I attend a clayton county public school in the district.I will have to go to a virtual acadamy because of someone else’s mistakes.I will have to leave all my closest friends and never see them again.I am a very active and involved student in my school.I am in numerous extra cirriculars and clubs.I want to practice my leadership skills by runnning these clubs.I work better with a teacher in front of me teaching me habds on!I can’t just sit in a computer chair all day sitting in fornt of a screen.Aren’t we supposed to be doing the opposite? Don’t people say to be active and to not stay in front of a computer the whole day? The students shouldn’t be the people suffering for some other foolish and dishonest person’s mistakes! We were not the minds behind those actions! We shouldn’t have to move all the way to another county! Didn’t the people who decide our accreditation think of the children first? I thought it was called the NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND PROGRAM! I guess that all was a lie!!!! I love my school and I shouldn’t have to leave it!!!

For Your Information Vendetta, YOU SHOULD CARE ABOUT PEOPLE IN CLAYTON COUNTY!!! What if this happened to you or your children? Do you think this would be an easy obstacle to overcome? I don’t think sooooo!!!!! I bet if you were in this situation, you would want everyone to know! You have no right to say something like that!CARING is part of being a Good Citizen! Not just saying “OH. That’s not in our district,so it is not our problem.”

Imagine being an All A student working and striving for Excellence.What if you were suddenly Told that all your work was for nothing and that you do not have a chance at recieving the HOPE Scholarship. Isn’t that what the word means??? H-O-P-E. The Hope scholarship gives all students HOPE to actually be able to get a decent job and be able to support for their family in the future. This is ignorance. NO one is listening when we are all yearning for our cries to be heard. Is this how cruel the world has become?

By C.R.H.

March 17, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

I don’t OWE Clayton county a damn thing. What is with this entitlement attitude? They, the voters and residents of CC, OWED it to themselves to act with some intelligence when they voted in this school board. They should have also been a little more attentive to all the problems that were happening…instead they just ignored the issue. Great job, now clean up your own nasty mess!

By jim d

March 17, 2008 8:52 PM | Link to this

Who cares if we owe them?

Bottom line?

We will be paying anyway.

And gee, I thought i was the only one that was worthy of being called a stupid idiot.

Tater,

Don’t you just love it when a person claiming to be a professional just looses it and must resort to name calling rather than carry on an intelligent conversation.

By Lee

March 17, 2008 9:39 PM | Link to this

Good grief, everybody needs to get a paper bag and start breathing into it…

First of all, the vote to revoke Clayton’s accreditation was merely a formality. Loss of accreditation is the only “stick” in SACS bag of tricks. My guess is that Clayton (or the state) will finally come around and start implementing some of the “changes” recommended by SACS. Enough so, that SACS will take another vote in mid-summer to “delay” revocation of accreditation pending completion of the remaining recommendations.

BTW, there are a lot more snakes in the grass than just the BOE. People have been blogging for at least a year or so about the sorry state of Clayton’s schools. And yes, a lot of the complaints are directly attributible to the students. Gang activity, discipline problems, drugs, etc, etc. As a result, the “good” teachers are leaving Clayton in droves for greener pastures.

And for that small percentage of Clayton students who actually are there to learn, dont worry, you can still get HOPE. There are a few more stipulations, but you can still get it.

By linda

March 17, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

The fact is that public school systems are not created equal. We don’t owe Clayton any more than we owe any other crappy school district anywhere in the country. Until parents realize that and demand at the very least discipline and a learning environment the students in most schools will suffer. We should actually be impressed that as much learning occurs as it does in the chaos that exists in most schools here. Just because Clayton has crossed some SACS boundary doesn’t mean there aren’t others suffering similarly. I bet CCPS Student has no idea what a true learning environment is and the rigor that a good education demands. The whole thing is tragic and so avoidable but I’m afraid this is just the tip of the iceberg.

By DB

March 18, 2008 12:31 AM | Link to this

So, what is it, exactly, that we need to “do” for these students? I can’t see a darn thing that I can do for them. Their situation is the result of a laughable excuse of a school board, voted in by residents of that county. I’m two counties away — what in the heck am I supposed to do? And why should I bend over backwards for Clayton, as opposed to any other poorly-performing school district?

So, we make an “exception” in their case for HOPE? How will that help them, if no college will recognize their lack of accredidation? Make Georgia colleges make an exception for Clayton County School “just this once” … for how long? A year?

The parents can’t move. That’s real life. Who in the hell would buy a house in Clayton County now, unless they were childless, private school oriented, or had enough money to spend on investment property? The vast majority of families would not be able to move without selling their current home. Private schools? Good luck with that. The deadlines for most of the decent schools was early February, and there’s plenty of competition for those spots already. A non-SACS accredited private school? Umm — why bother?

And, to CCPS Student, yes, SACS DID think of the children first when they imposed these sanctions. That’s the whole idea — to create an optimal learning environment for kids. They have identified many areas in Clayton County that significantly get in the way of learning, and after years of making recommendations and suggestions that were ignored, SACS took the only course open to them to make sure people paid attention. It worked. You don’t know any better, because you’ve never been in a different system — but those straight A’s that you’re so proud of have been made suspect because of the actions of the adults that were elected to oversee your education. Hopefully, something can be worked out by September 1st — but they better geta move on, that’s less than 6 months away!

By linda

March 18, 2008 6:57 AM | Link to this

Even if Clayton keeps its accreditation, will that mean it is a great learning environment? Of course not. That, CCPS Student, is what you need to realize. We on this blog are not the people to whom you need to plead your case. Your parents and school administrators are the only ones who can truly help you. Sorry. If there were anything in my power that could rid the world of bad parenting and school management I assure you would have done it by now. Your plea to keep accreditation “for the students’ sake” is a Band-Aid fix and doesn’t begin to touch the real issues involved in Clayton. Let’s use this debacle to expose and fix problems so that we can trust public education again. P.S. - CCPS Student - for the record I also attended school in a place where I was allowed to slide by without learning much. Like your parents, mine did not know better. I made up for it by learning on my own from knowledgeable people as well as books. You can do the same, but do not make the mistake of thinking you were getting an “education” in Clayton schools. Don’t accept Clayton standards for success. Raise your own bar and I suggest that others there do the same.

By linda

March 18, 2008 7:04 AM | Link to this

To answer the question “What do we owe Clayton Students?” Perhaps we owe to them to show them an example of what a good school system looks like (even if it is not in Georgia). I don’t think they know and they have no hope of fixing it if they have no direction. I really think they are that clueless. The state cannot fix a district that is in so much in its own way, but perhaps we can point them in the direction of an actual success to use as a model. Granted, they have unique problems but I believe they can be fixed with a true no-nonsense approach.

By jim d

March 18, 2008 7:06 AM | Link to this

“Your alarmist post is really stupid.”

“Your stupidity continues”

“it is the fault of the parents.”

“Don’t be such an idiot”

Tater,

Then we wonder why some teachers have such little respect from parents and students. Gee, I can’t imagine not holding someone making comments like these in the highest esteem, can you?

By JustMe

March 18, 2008 7:53 AM | Link to this

jd - Your last post is a great example of how you enjoy creating your illusion (delusion?) of your positions. You pick and choose your ‘documentation’ from a variety of places to support your position just as you selected certain sentences and pulled them from old posts for Tater.

Then you wonder why other people posting here don’t take you seriously?

Are you telling me that you never, ever have said or wrote anything even close to what is in italics in your post? Are you that ‘perfect?’ Please respond!!! If you respond that you truly are that ‘perfect’ then I want to nominate you as our religious, political, and social leader of the world!!!!

Teachers are human. All humans have limits. This includes doctors, lawyers, the President of the US, and yes, even teachers. Does having limits make them unprofessional or less than human? No. If you had been reading this thread, you would have seen that Tater harrassed me in multiple post for an answer that I had already given hours earlier.

You, also, need to get a life!

By susan

March 18, 2008 8:04 AM | Link to this

as a bystander on this board, reading posts and posting here for the first time……. jim d and tater are the biggest jerks I have ever seen

the question is……. will they ruin this board so much that everyone stops posting?

By jim d

March 18, 2008 8:11 AM | Link to this

JM,

Your bętise is showing.

No Indeed, I’m far from perfect and have said things far worse. The difference is first that i really don’t give a damn if anyone respects me without my having earned it. Furthermore, I don’t resort to attacking the messenger just because I can not defend my position.

As usual your comments here don’t hold water as two of the comments you made yesterday, that you now defend, were not directed at Tater but came from your 1:12 to Stop Child Abuse Now!

Have you ever considered simply saying “Sorry”?

By jim d

March 18, 2008 8:14 AM | Link to this

And we love you too Susan!

HAGD

By WFC

March 18, 2008 8:25 AM | Link to this

SOMEBODY elected the idiot Clayton BOE. They should be held accountable. Or maybe it’s time to devise a new method of governing schools. The BOE model is archaic.

By V for Vendetta

March 18, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

CCPS Student,

I don’t live in Clayton, nor would I ever live in an area even remotely like Clayton County. I also hope (HOPE?) that the “all A” student you were talking about was not yourself. I’m the first to defend people’s grammar mistakes, this being a blog and all that, but your your post is riddled with mistakes, misspellings, and punctuation errors. Please tell me you are in middle school or, at the very most, in ninth grade.

Otherwise, I’d have to say you’ve made your point, but not in the way you think. Get my drift?

By Tater

March 18, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

jim d

Missed you yesterday my friend.

JustMe was on a roll as you can tell. Name calling was just part of it, but I’m used to it with her. Just check susan’s comments as well. No substantive reply, just that we are jerks..

CCPS Student please don’t take this comment harshly. Your posting only proves my point that public education in Clayton County is failing you. Strive to achieve by yourself.

linda Absolutely enjoyed your posts. I also was allowed to slide to graduation for the majority of my school years. Unlike several here, I took it upon myself to be a better person, not relying on government to solve my problems.

By TomFromThomasville

March 18, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

I enjoy reading these posts, but a couple of regular posters here (jim d and Tater) really are complete jerks as Susan said. Sometimes they contribute good points, but mostly them are just looking to fight and argue.

Go somewhere else for that, please.

By JustMe

March 18, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

jd - You are right. You have not earned any respect here at all. In fact, I would say that you are in debt.

By AlreadySheared

March 18, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

Laura, What about the students? They didn’t elect this school board. Why are they being punished for the mistakes of adults?

Sadly, this is another instance (writ large) of the following aphorism:

On average, children will get the schools their parents deserve.

By JustMe

March 18, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

Tater I would say that you were on a roll attacking me! I answered your question early on, yet you continued to harrass me.

Also, if CCPS and others react to you the same as me, possibly, just possibly, it isn’t everyone else - it is you.

Pot, meet kettle.

By Tater

March 18, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

JustMe Really… Don’t remember lowering myself to your name calling, but then again I’m not surprised by your statements.

As far as CCPS, you need to read his posting and V’s statement. This is the failing of another government bureaucracy in this state.

Tom The title of this post is what do we owe Clayton County students. How about contributing your comments instead of telling me and jim d what jerks we are.

By Camille

March 18, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

Catlady asked a few questions (on a few boards) concerning accreditation and the smoke screen that she feels is “being put up.”

It was relatively easy to find the answer to many of the questions by going to the following site: http://www.gsfc.org/hope/dsp_hopoes.cfm

In short, any student attending a high school (public or private) that is accredited by one of the following agencies is eligible for the HOPE scholarship: SACS, GAC, GACS, ACSI, GPSAC, ACIS, or SAIS. This would exclude Clayton County if they do in fact lose accreditation. Homeschooled kids are not eligible for HOPE for their freshman year. They can retroactively apply during their sophomore year provided that they carried a B average in their freshman year. With regards to pre-K, yes, there are many private schools that offer pre-K, but many of them also do not accept HOPE funds. Hence, the status of private school. My youngest son’s school is considered a private school and they do not accept HOPE funds for their pre-K program. So, parents actually pay for the program. However, those schools that do accept state funds for HOPE have to actually apply to the state and be accepted to receive the funds. No school is guaranteed to get HOPE funds just because they want to have a pre-K program. There is a process to it. The HOPE pre-K program is merely a way for the state to fund day care services for 4 year olds in the state anyway. Given that I have one son that went through the HOPE pre-K program and one that will go through a program that I will pay for, I know the differences very well and wish that I had not sent my oldest son through the HOPE program. It is just baby sitting, at best.

So, the reality is that the loss of accreditation is a real problem and not some “smoke screen.” There may be ways to get around the accreditation issue with regards to getting into college and the HOPE scholarship, but I’m sure that there would be additional hoops to jump through in that regards.

By Ernest

March 18, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

What everyone seems to forget is that laws can be changed to enable Clayton County students to receive the HOPE scholarship if the system does lose its accreditation. If there is not a legislative remedy to this, it is reasonable to expect to state to take over the system to provide confidence to SACS. I honestly can’t see the state allowing one of its school systems to fail given all the negative perceptions about education in GA.

The irony of this situation is one could say it mirrors what is happening with Bear Stearns now.

By V for Vendetta

March 18, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Ernest, Let’s not go changing the laws for CCPS’s benefit. See the above post by the CCPS student as evidence for what kind of “HOPE scholars” the CCPS school system produces. Apologies to any kid who ACTUALLY deserves the HOPE in Clayton, but the overwhelming majority I’d say do not, no matter what their grades are. Sorry, but they you can’t always have your druthers.

By jim d

March 18, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

V,

From what i understand sonny already has a plan in place, should they not regain their accreditadion status, that would include some changes in the law.

By Tater

March 18, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

jim d Sigh… Sonny has a plan to address this crisis.. That makes me feel better since he hasn’t had one during his terms in office. Oops, I forgot, he prayed for rain. Superior leadership Sonny! Government intervention for such a failed system. Jim, where does it end? I thought the bailout of Chrysler was a mistake many moons ago.. Government cannot keep fixing things using the same government who screwed it up in the first place.

V you are so correct. We seem to be the only ones who noticed the posting of CCPS. I HOPE (pun intended) for a better response next time.

By Ernest

March 18, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

V and others, see my post yesterday @ 9:31am. It includes a hyperlink pointing to the Senate bill (which has already passed, SB 480) that will give ‘hope’ for Clayton County students. It is easy to sit back and say we shouldn’t willy nilly change laws like this but not doing so could have economic consequences for the state. With the economy slowing (some would say we are already in a recession), the state may not have a choice in the matter. I mentioned Bear Stearns earlier today and no one seemed to pick up on that. To ensure confidence, moves like that have to be made.

I understand there is a precedent with a state taking over a system in danger of losing accreditation with the Hartford, CT school system. I cannot see a situation where the state would allow a school system to lose accreditation in this day and time.

By John

March 18, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

CLAYTON COUNTY PARENTS: What bad timing. Just when the housing market is at its lowest, you have to either move or make your child go to school for 13 years and recieve a diplomia that isn’t worth the paper it was printed on. Are you at a dead end? NO!! Your child can atten a Henry County School wihtout you having to sell your home. All you need to do is rent a small, cheap apartment and be sure to keep up all utility bills. I promise this will work. Email me to get more information!

By Attn: Clayton Parents

March 18, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

Word is Ericka Davis is running scared. She thought she had a deal with SACS and Elgart to rid the board of MACE members (that’s why there is ZERO mention of her in a 27 page SACS report)

She thought she was going to be able to position herself as the “Princess Savior” of the BOE in that SACS would have Clayton on the brink of loss of accreditation, and that she would “steer the ship” back to safety.

Now that the entire plan has TOTALLY blown up in her face, she knows the voters will look to her, as Chairman of the Board to see who is behind this debacle.

Elgart is supposedly getting so much flack from the national office for involving SACS in ClayCo politics, that he’s quickly putting distance between himself and Davis, and there’s almost zero chance he’s going to work with Davis to let her be “the savior”.

Could be why we are seeing increasing desperate, willful violations of the law as Ericka attempts to retain power.

The latest: Violating state law by not giving the public fourteen days notice as to who the candidates are for “turnaround chief.” Could it be because Ericka’s new lackey was fired from his last post in Pittsburg?

By catlady

March 18, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

Attn: keep on reporting. You are filling an important need in your community. Others should be watching the interplay between SACS and Clayton Co.

By Hick from the Sticks

March 19, 2008 8:12 AM | Link to this

What is owed, indeed.

Where would one begin?

After reading CCPS student’s post, if that is what is attaining A’s in his/her English classes, the point has been stated loud and clear.

Now. Let’s get a few things nice and sparkling clear before some people pick up their pitchforks and torches hurling insults:

Now—that having been said…

Has anyone here taught in Clayton County? I understand the fact that some people here would love to compare some of their experiences, but the sad fact of it is, is that if you’ve never done time there, your solutions to a community you can not comprehend are weak, at best.

If the county you reside in is doing well by you and your children, embrace it. Clayton doesn’t have that opportunity. None of those board members are leaving, folks. Optimisim caught the last train out last year.

By catlady

March 19, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

Camille, So, Clayton County students (class of 09) CAN get HOPE retroactively. They can take out loans and then repay them with their money that is reimbursed the next year. The biggest burden for them would be that they don’t have a “free” year to screw around like other HOPE students get. If they don’t make the 3.0 their freshman year, they would not get the money to pay their “HOPE anticipation” loans. Or they can alter their plans and go to less expensive colleges that they might pay for out of pocket or, if poor, out of Pell. Not what they have envisioned, but not an impossible burden.

I believe I acknowledged the problem of not enough “free” preK slots. I agree with you about the general efficacy of state funded prek. The “haves” go to private, paid prek and get better programs. The “heave nots” go to state funded prek and have a generally lower level experience. Most consider it an entitlement, a free babysitting service.

On college admission, I think it would not have a terribly big impact. A stellar student with stellar SAT (probably unlike the CC student who blogged above) will be accepted into most demanding colleges, public or private. Less demanding colleges already accept students from unconventional routes. And the two year schools are even less picky. So college education is still available. Transfers, for successful students who have shown their merit, is still possible if a first choice school fails to accept the student because of the loss of SACS accreditation.

While it is very unfortunate to be the “example case”, perhaps the woes of Clayton County will be a wakeup to not only that county, its parents, and businesses, but to others whose boards fail to make the children their first priority. Clayton County parents have GOT to come out by the tens of thousands to make their demands clear. So far, not too many have spoken up, so the board continues to (mal) function.

My daughter’s BF taught in CC for one year and got out of it. A terrible situation, to hear her talk. If I were a CC parent I would have long ago found a way to leave. Inertia can be deadly, and parents everywhere are well advised to be constantly keeping an eye on their child, their child’s school, and the school system. Not just by reading the self selected data in the paper, but by making an appearance in the school from time to time and asking for “unspun” data. Parental responsibility does not end at the bus door!

By formerclaytonteacher

March 19, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

I was at a meeting yesterday and someone said that it could be 5 years before Clayton County regains its accrediation if they lose. Many people are making assumptions about how quickly it will be restored.

MACE has been the worse thing to happen to CCSS. Possibly it has helped some teachers, though some of the ones I know about deserved to be fired, but it has been a train wreck in every other way.

The fact that city of Atlanta teachers served on the Clayton board should have raised a red flag to everyone.

By scott

March 19, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

I wonder how many people are saying it is the idiots from Clayton county that voted the school board in power I can thank for voting for our current president, not once, but twice. So many of you should call your own selves idiots because I really appreciate the cost of this 5 year “weapons of mass destruction” war, I really look forward to filling up my gas tank every weekend instead of every two weekends, and nothing beats the taste of a gallon of milk that costs more than a gallon of gas. Spare me with the name calling and stick to the issue at hand.

Although I am not a resident of clayton county, if people begin to relocate I am pretty sure they are coming to were the better school are. Every school system in the metro is overcrowded and can not take in 1000’s of unplanned students.

By jim

March 19, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

Children often pay for the mistakes adults make; from the parents not being around to the parents selling their kids’ a** for crack. The kids always reap what the parents sow, whether good or ill. It is no different here. What does Ms Diamond really suggest? That the County or State government pick up the tab to move everybody either out of the county or enroll them in private school? The most “fair” thing I can come up with is dissolve Clayton County’s charter and merge them with Fulton. Fulton probably has enough people to water down Clayton parents’ electoral choices. I wouldn’t saddle Fayette or Henry with Clayton’s baggage; at least people in those counties know how to elect a school board.

But, either way, bottom line, a bunch of Clayton students are scr**ed, and there is no one but Clayton voters to blame. Many of theses students have lost college opportunities, but maybe they will at least gain an appreciation of what happens when you vote for someone based on something besides dedication and ability.

By CCPS Student

March 19, 2008 11:06 PM | Link to this

Yes, I do agree that Clayton County does not have the best educational environment, but look at who is in charge of all of this! THE CCPS school board!! They should have been monitoring all the schools and making constructive changes! This is the result of THE SCHOOL BOARD’s absurd actions!!!! They are making everything extremely difficult!They chose the best time too!The housing market is really bad and decent schools cost a great deal of money! How are houses supposed to be sold? No one would move into a county with schools that are not accredited!They should have resigned immediately! The educational system needs some SERIOUS CHANGES and FILTERING!

By CCPS Student

March 19, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this

SACS did not even pull the accreditation because of test scores! They pulled it because of the board members’ ethics!

By PTCMomma

March 25, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

The parents of Clayton County have known for YEARS that there are issues. They did elect the school board. If they didn’t vote, they could have. Now they are having to deal with the consequences. That includes the loss of money for pre-school and college.

By tired

March 26, 2008 7:54 AM | Link to this

I agree with everything being blamed on racism. Get over yourself. no one can do anything for you because it’s always aboyt your race. I don’t care what color you are or where you camr from. Stupid is stupid and it fits in Clayton County’s case. They had ample warning their school board was not taking care of business, but hey, the board is black too. “It must be rumors based on racism.” Clean up your own mess Clayton County, get rid of the crooked Board of Ed. and take care of your children. Other school systems do not need the influx of students to already full classrooms, we do not need the traffic, and we do not need the kind of parents that are not more involved and didn’t see this coming. You can go to a board meeting every month, you can get the minutes from the meetings. But the parents failed their children and now, typically, want someone else to clean up their disaster. How sad this is the example the children have to follow. Hey SACS, why don’t you help them out since this all your fault. I mean the guidelines that every school in the state has to use are obviously to racist. get over yourselves and get your whining selves to work to correct this.

By Janis

March 27, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

SO IF MY CHILD FLUNKS AND THE BOARD MEMBERS GET RICH, who takes my bill to put my child in a better school? There are district lines and county taxes for reasons. Clayton has had more funding than many counties and ruined their funds and now want to ruin others wanting “better”. Parents put your children in private schools, pay taxes in a “better district” or HOUSE MEMBERS set up charter schools and stop shifting problems to tax payers. They have Clayton county taxes and should be afforded Clayton county schools—-fix the problems where the children are. LOUD AND CLEARLY, parents of Clayton County take responsibility for your childrens’ education, Board Members move aside, HOUSE REPRESENTATIVES taxpayers will be watching and sure not to re-elect you for passing the buck, literally. There are no vacancies in other counties for another county problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!