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DEL.ICIO.USDo we have different rules for male teachers?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Mike King wrote a column about a male teacher who was accused of sodomizing a 6-year-old girl in a school bathroom, only to be declared not guilty of aggravated child molestation nearly 2 ½ years later.
The teacher’s case makes me wonder: Do male teachers face a double standard?
Few people raise an eyebrow if a female teacher talks with a student alone. When it happens with a male teacher, the situation can be misconstrued. I’ve heard male middle and high school teachers say they try to never be alone with a student. Some invite a female colleague into the room or move the conversation into the hallway.
If they must be alone with a student, many male teachers leave the door open. Some say they stand near the doorway, so it doesn’t look like something clandestine is going on.
Male elementary school teachers - particularly those in kindergarten - face different challenges. At that young age, children are quick to hug. Female teachers hug back with little hesitation. Male teachers say they’re more likely to give pats on the back or on the head.
Many female kindergarten teachers will help kids with problematic snaps and zippers and help kids change their pants if they have an accident. The male kindergarten teachers I’ve met said they won’t do that because it could be misinterpreted. Instead, they ask a female paraprofessional to step in.
As a society, do we trust female teachers more than male teachers? Why?
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Comments
By L.King
March 14, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this
Yes, as a male high school teacher you have to be careful dealing with female students. After school tutorial are usually attended by my female students and I make it a point to stay in the front with the classroom door open. If an accusation occurs, even if you are cleared by the courts the stigma is still associated with your name.
By Jeff
March 14, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this
This has been a sore subject with me for the better part of two decades now. I first became aware of it in relation to males in general and accusations of sexual harassment, but over the years I’ve looked at it in other contexts, and all show a glaring presumption of guilt until proven innocent - many times even in the legal community, but almost ALWAYS in the public at large.
To the tune that I was almost ran out of education in student teaching (and this WAS one of the factors that led KSU to throw me out, and one of my main complaints against their College of Ed) for the following observation:
“I - and many male teachers - intentionally keep the thermostat in the class as low as I can stand. For one primary reason: I don’t have to worry about female dress code issues. Keep the temperature cold, use the excuse that I wear a blazer everyday and am naturally hot, and since females are generally physically colder than males, they will naturally cover themselves appropriately and I don’t have to put myself in a comment about telling them to pull down their dress or cover their revealing top which could lead to accusations of me trying to ‘ogle’ them, or worse.”
The female teachers I made the comment to were SHOCKED that I would think like this, but the male teachers all were either nodding their heads or came up to me later and said they completely agreed.
This very issue is the primary reason many males do not go into education. It aint worth the hassle!
By JustMe
March 14, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this
Yes. No doubt.
Female teachers can give hugs, kisses on the cheek, etc. If a male teacher does this same behavior, he would likely be arrested.
Male teachers are ‘suggested’ to leave their room door open at all times, especially if they are with a female student. This suggestion is from the administration - so the suspicions begin before the first day of employment.
Often, male teachers are told to wear dress clothes, including neck ties. Female teachers are somehow allowed to wear sandles, shorts, halter tops, etc.
The funny thing to me is that there are far more cases of female teachers messing around with male students, yet females don’t have the same standards - go figure.
There is most certainly a double standard. This is just one reason there are few male teachers.
By Jeff
March 14, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this
JM:
That was always something that got to me: that I couldn’t wear nice sandals to work when female teachers wore any they wanted, including ones that looked like they were about to fall apart!
Of course, most of the year down here in South GA about the only time you see me wearing anything other than sandals is when I’m at work, at church, or doing some physical activity that REQUIRES shoes.
By WFC
March 14, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this
School systems operate in “cover your a$$” mode. It simply doesn’t matter if 50 students say there was no harassment. If one dumb princess with a 54 average says there was harassment, the school system “steamroller” goes into action. They can’t stop actual sex between teachers and students so they look for bogus “harassment.” They can therefore say that they are “doing something.”
By Mara
March 14, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this
The problem is, most people don’t see anything wrong with a female teacher having sex with a male student. However, the slightest indication that there might be something inappropriate between a male teacher and female student and everyone is in an uproar. Sadly, until this basic problem is fixed there is always going to be a discrepancy between how male teachers are treated.
By JustMe
March 14, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this
Jeff, I have seen female teachers wear those rubber flip-flops intended for the beach - yet male teachers are required to wear dress shoes. I have seen female teachers wear tank tops - while male teachers are required to wear dress shirts with neck ties. I have seen female teachers wear shorts - while male teachers are required to wear dress pants.
I wonder why the ACLU doesn’t swing into action regarding this unfair dress code requirement?
To me, it is comical. Does administration really think that neck ties would prevent sexual advances? Will dress shoes prevent it? Give me a break!
By Jeff
March 14, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this
JM:
My point exactly.
As a teacher, I can do my job just as effectively - maybe even more so - in a tshit, jeans, and sandals as I can in a 5 piece suit.
Of course, even where I work as a programmer I have to wear dress shoes, though at least I can wear polos/jeans.
By Tony
March 14, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
The hype surrounding sexual harassment claims is always more intense if it is a male being accused. To me, this is based on the feminist applications of standards that have run amok in our society.
By Jeff
March 14, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this
Kinda surprised that the bleeping software didn’t catch it, but that should be tshiRt above, not what was posted!
By One
March 14, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
I agree with a lot of the comments so far, and I must add that realistically, female teachers are just as questionable as male teachers (in my eyes). But, on the flip side, we have society to thank for the “young guy banging the teacher” being a cool thing, and the “young girl being taken advantage of by the male teacher”. Chalk it up to male ego! It’s kind of like when a young boy loses his virginity, that’s cool amongst guys (most), but when a young girl loses her virginity, she’s a slut! Yes, it is ridiculous, but again, society has pushed this nonsense along!!!! Why is it cute for young boys to have a girlfriend, but not for young girls to have a boyfriend? I personally have ostracized that way of thinking between me and my teen. I have always let her know that that is some societal double-standard mess………..if it’s not right for one, it’s not right for the other, no matter what “the majority” says. I hate that male teachers are treated this way, but with all of the double standards against women, I have to say, you mainly have yourselves to blame for this. Keep your heads up! I know that sounded a little mean, but hey, it is what it is!
By brent
March 14, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this
This subject always scares the hell out of me. I’ve worked w/ students in one capacity or another for 15 years now and I definitely LIVE by the “cover your a$$” mode. As a middle school instructor (especially sixth grade) the female students automatically see you as a father, which is a MAJOR NO-NO in my classroom. I’ve never had an incident nor have any of my fellow male co-workers. But there’s always a story of some idiot being naive and it makes you even more cautious.
It’s obvious that in most minority communities, the father is absent from the home which naturally causes students (male & female) to see the male teacher as a dad. I understand that dynamic and my heart goes out for those students. At the same time, my role as a teacher is one that requires me to be “wise as a serpent, harmless as a dove” if I want to keep my job.
L.King’s comment above is absolutely right…all it takes is ONE accusation and you spend the rest of your professional life fighting like crazy to get rid of the stigma!!!
By Oldman_r
March 14, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this
Complain if you want, but male teachers should be held to a high standard of professionalism and dress. From what is being said, the problem, instead, is that female teachers aren’t held to a high enough standard. As far as female teachers wearing shorts and tank tops to work.. that doesn’t happen at our school, but I probably wouldn’t complain. Maybe I’m part of the problem.
By Stacey
March 14, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this
Yes, there is definitely a double standard and I hate it because we desperately need more male educators, especially in elementary school.
Too many kids (boys) are being raised with no male authority figure and (I believe) if more of them have that male disciplinary figure early in life, they are less likely to find it in the form of a policeman or prison warden. Please don’t start the argument that teacher aren’t supposed to be parents and blah, blah, blah…I know that. Still, too often that’s the role they are forced into.
I am the disciplinarian in my home (as was my mother) but my son knows that my husband is the head of the family. I probably couldn’t tell you 10% of the whippings/punishments my mother administered throughout my life but I can tell you in detail the three times in my life that Daddy had to step in. Very rarely did I need to see the inside of the principal’s office at school and I have never had to see the backseat of a police car.
By DNG
March 14, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this
White males have always been held accountable and to a higher standard than any other race or gender. My only explanantion to this is that, simply put, we are superior to any and all others, hence the ruler we’re measured by.
By DB
March 14, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this
Mara, are you serious when you say that “most people don’t see anything wrong with a female teacher having sex with a male student”? I have a BIG problem with it!
I feel badly for male teachers these days, and Jeff’s comments about turning the thermostat as low as it will go made me laugh outloud — ruefully, because I can envision exactly what he is talking about. One of my son’s “culture shocks” when starting college this year was the provocative way so many of the girls dressed for class. Coming from a private school uniform environment, he said that the first few weeks of school, he was stunned by the amount of skin so casually on display, and by what many girls felt was appropriate attire for class.
By imamale
March 14, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
Here i am wearing tshit and jeans while i am at work… I am in edu program now to become a teacher, and i will say that most of my college pro wear thsit and jeans… They look more comfortable, and i know they are more comfortable, so what is the big deal!!!? I mean if a teacher, MALE OR FEMALE is going to fornicate with a student, i do not htink the clothes will really matter that much. I mean for a man at least,= a woman could wear a holter top with her bust line out, and a mini skirt, and that is different!! I dont know, sounds stupid to me.
By JustMe
March 14, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
Oldman_r
The issue is not whether men should dress professionally or not.
The issue is one of fairness. If men must dress professionally, then women should as well.
The issue is also one of answering “why” must men dress differently. If men are required to dress differently because they are automatically assumed to be sexual preditors, that is simply wrong. Women can be as much of sexual preditors as men.
By Jeff
March 14, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
DB:
Your son’s experience is my other reason I did it.
I know ALL TOO WELL how distracting it is to be a male student in a class with a female who isn’t exactly dressed according to code. And from puberty - now, ANY time I am a student in a class, if there is a nice looking lady showing a lot of skin… I ain’t really paying too much attention to the teacher/professor.
A book series that I find that addresses this issue so that (hopefully) everyone can understand it is the AJC’s own Shaunti Feldhahn’s For Women Only series. (For Women Only, For Men Only, For Young Women Only, For Young Men Only, For Parents Only, maybe one or two others.)
Actually, the initial thermostat idea was inspired directly by her research, at least in my case.
By Camille
March 14, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
DB, I think that Mara’s statement was more in line with what One said about it being cool for a young guy to have sex with a female teacher. In these instances, a lot of people would think that it was the guy that initiated the sexual advances. And, in following that logic, there are just too many people that would not stigmatize the woman as much as a male teacher would be stigmatized for having sex with a female student (here, the guy would also have initiated the sexual advance, but in this instance, since it is an older gentleman who “should” know better, and there is an underage girl involved, it is not acceptable). Society wants girls to remain “pure” until marriage, but boys can basically do as they please. Just double standards…
By SFTeacher
March 14, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
Brent, I’ve worked in many a white school where many fathers were absent, or the father was now a woman! If you work in majority low income black schools, or white schools, you’ll find that to be the case. As always, there can’t be a blog on this site without someone expressing their opinion about race. My parents have been married 39 years and my in-laws 45. Gimme a break!
As an educator for 15 years, I can honestly say that I’ve witnessed middle school girls look at men differently. I’ve seen one be so bold as to go to up to the teacher and rub his chest because she thought he was hot! He immediately reported it, but these girls are no angels. Boys aren’t usually so daring. There is definitely a double standard.
By Blkshepherd
March 14, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
You tell them SFTeacher! and how about that bi-polar post DNG saying white males are superior. LOL LOL LOLL LOL ah ha ha ha hee hee hee. That is the funniest stupiest assinine thing I have ever read in all years..yeah DNG,you keep believing whites males are superior to other races..your living in a the world of disney. Surely you must be on drugs as well. I suggest you check into your nearest Re-hab center because you are clueless..superiour? lol
By GhettoIce
March 14, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
As a Educator by trade, there are certainly disparities that exist within the schools. Traditionally, there is a notion that the female teacher is wholesome and she is basically the face of early education. Black male teachers have this issue two-fold.
It is also my beliefs, based on things seen within the schools and the media, it would behoove any teacher to “CYA” (cover your @$$)in situations that would be deemed inappropriate by onlookers. In a society where children are exploited by both male and FEMALE teachers, it is a must that a teacher, especially males, practice discretion when dealing with students.
By Mara
March 14, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this
DB, i personally think that regardless of gender, a teacher having sex with a student is wrong. However, overall, i think society’s reaction to a male student having sex with a female teacher is to give the guy a high five. My comment was that until we addressed society’s differing reaction depending on gender, then unfortunately male teachers are going to be treated differently.
By FarLeftLoons
March 14, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
Males are discriminated against in the office, divorce, marriage, child rearing, insurance, adoption, prison, and everywhere else. Why would teaching be different? We’re held to bogus standards that don’t apply to women. And don’t get me started about WHITE men…
By One
March 14, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this
Camille, exactly!!
SFTeacher, you go girl!!!!
Blkshepherd, ^5^5^5!!!!!!! I was laughing too!!!!
Last school year my daughter told me about questionable behavior between her piano teacher (male) and a girl in the class. She says that it was weird because the teacher had given the girl a nickname (something with “big” and “butt” in it!!!), and all the class was like “what’s that all about?”. Well, I’m sure most of you can guess what I did…………yep, called the Asst. Principal for their grade (9th at the time), and anonymously left a msg. with as much detail as possible. My daughter later reported that that behavior had ceased. And yes, to protect my child’s identity, I did it anonymously!
By JustMe
March 14, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
As far as teaching is concerned… It would/should be easy to fix the fairness issue - simply hold all teachers (male and female) to the same standard of attire.
What would be wrong with that? Regardless of what “society” says, this is what is fair and right, period.
By HS Teacher Too
March 14, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
I used to tutor a girl who was …shall we say generously endowed. she wore a t-shiRt to school that said “00% silicone free”
when her male Yst period teacher told her he thought it was inappropriate, she asked him what he was doing looking. what’s a male teacher to do?!
I have also known significantly more female teachers to be enchanted by the idea of being the “cool” teacher, flirting with their male students (who in some cases are only 4-5 years younger than the are). even worse are the ones who love the football players. and sorry, but it it true — for the guys, it is just a notch in their belt if they can be “hot for teacher” and get somewhere with it.
I think dress codes for teachers are enforced with nothing more than the force of a tsk tsk, if at all. I almost always wore a business suit to work. sets the tone, tells the world that I think of myself as a professional. I would support a return to old-fashioned teacher dress codes that required a jacket and tie fo men and something similar fo women, no sandals or tennis shoes for anyone but gym teachers.
By One
March 14, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
JustMe, I agree!!! But why stop at teachers, that “fairness” should exist in all areas!!!
By lovelyliz
March 14, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
What makes anyone think that bad accusations aren’t made against female teachers?
When I started my student teaching my mentor teacher told me to never, ever be alone with a student in closed room. The gender of the student doesn’t make a difference. Every time I was in a room by myself and a student walked in, the door was left open. It’s a risk not worth taking.
If there is any difference in the way the accusations and suspicions linger, it’s in the eye of the public. The teachers take this very seriously.
By HS Teacher Too
March 14, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
oops. the t-shirt I referred to in my earlier post said across the chest “100% Silicone Free” I sent that from my phone and so I apologize for my typos!
By Jeff
March 14, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
lovelyliz:
I’ve known SEVERAL males that had false accusations made about them.
I’ve never known a SINGLE female that had a false accusation made about them.
Now, these are just in the cases I personally know the people involved, so that could tilt the data, but I stand by my observations and the fact that I can draw from them to conclude that VERY FEW false accusations are made against female teachers, particularly when the sheer volume of false accusations against males is thrown into the picture.
By V for Vendetta
March 14, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
Jeff, I laughed at your AC fix. I know others who do the same thing! It works!
I’m not really sure I have anything to add here. We all know there’s a double standard; it’s no secret. At the same time, male teachers can get away with saying things that a female teacher could NEVER get away with. Male teachers curse more often, and area “allowed” to loose their tempers because they’re male. I see this as a sort of karma-compensation.
They’re scrutinized far more on the basis of sex and have to cover themselves big time when it comes to female students, but they can get away with saying more angry stuff because they’re men. Most of the time it’s the coaches. To be honest, I don’t disagree with that one bit. Some of these kids need a good cursing out from time to time.
By Jeff
March 14, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
V:
Ummm… the ONE TIME a curse word slipped from my mouth, I was nearly fired over it. Probably would have been if I wasn’t already due to leave the school within 3 weeks anyway…
Situation: I’m doing the final review, and we are working out a rather difficult problem (involving Law of Cosines, if I remember correctly), and I tell them the wrong thing. I realize it about 15 minutes later, and we’ve been pressed for time for about a week already. (More their fault than mine on that account, but regardless, I’m trying to squeeze everything in so we cover the entire final before they take it.) Anyways, when I realize it, a fairly loud (but inaudible next door) F word escapes my mouth.
Purely accidental, at least in the classroom. Had it been a generic problem I was working on in college and done the same thing, I honestly wouldn’t have thought twice about it, but I DO work VERY hard not to curse in front of the kids.
They (students, parents, and admin) practically tried to literally sentence me to death over it!!
Yet the kids were allowed to curse in my class all day and there was nothing the school could do about it because ‘the kids have the right to free speech’.
Last I checked, so do teachers…
By John
March 14, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
If a teenaged boy has sex with his hottie high school teacher he gets high fives and she gets a light prison sentence. If a male teacher had sex with a female student she would be the victim of a sex crime and he would be under the jail.
By Jane
March 14, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
While it may be true that there is a difference in the standards for male/female teachers - I will state categorically that during my high school years I had several gentleman teachers that actually managed to TEACH me and in so doing managed to project the respect for student as well as have respect given to them. When my daughter was in Kindgerten her teacher was male and I could not have wished for a BETTER teacher for her - he provided a nurturing environment, was fun and managed to make learning fun (Granted as her parents we are all about education and being life long learners) however, having a teacher that is teaching for the RIGHT reasons is a cause to celebrate. Whomever, can TEACH and is not only qualified but enjoys teaching should be teaching the youth of today - the paperwork, administrative duties, lunchroom monitor, etc - eats away at the value of the resource which are TEACHERS. I do firmly believe that many teachers should give it up as they no longer ENJOY what they do - this has a snowball effect as the students are affected by this - the students learn not to enjoy learning- just as they learned to enjoy it. We as adults need to fix the problem not blame the parents, teachers, administrators, students, etc. - We need to logically sit down and figure out what is wrong - then we need to be committed to fixing the problem. The Blame Game has gotten very old -
By Stacey
March 14, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
I recall us having a similar discussion several weeks (month, perhaps) ago and I was shocked at the number of people who admitted that they are automatically suspicious of male teacher. When parents take that kind of attitude home with them, the kids will sense it and use it to their advantage. Mr. Paul has one time to chastise the child for any reason and suddenly the parent is suspicious of inappropriate behavior or intent.
This actually isn’t just with children and teachers. My husband is a mid-level manager in a corporate environment and will not have a one-on-one meeting with a female employee, especially not if it’s something negative. Long before he became a manager he saw someone’s career ruined over bogus sexual harrassment charges from a disgruntled former employee.
By JustMe
March 14, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
V - I don’t agree. I know black female teachers that get away with much more compared to males of any race. They can curse, throw things, even hit students without any repercussions.
In any case, if men could get away with that type of behavior, wearing a neck tie won’t make a difference.
By Jeff
March 14, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
Michael Chreighton’s Disclosure anyone?
By One
March 14, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
Oh no, please tell me we’re not headed down the “race road”!!!!!! Give it a rest……..
By V for Vendetta
March 14, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
Actually, One, I taught with a black female teacher who did just that. She was reprimanded from time to time, nothing more. I agree, I don’t want this discussion to head in that direction, but I think JM makes a valid point.
Jeff, it’s Crichton, but your point is well-taken. Also, I’m surprised that you were watched over so closely at your school (as far as cursing goes). Was it a high school? Therein may lie the difference. Of course, if it was that bad then I’m not surprised you left!
I wish we could curse at some of these little punks. You know what else? I wish we could curse at their parents, too. Some of my students parents are pathetic human beings, and when they give me attitude I would love to level them with a collapsing building’s worth of profanity. Especially when they have the nerve to talk down to me when it’s apparent their IQs are in the double-digits.
You know, I don’t want to go down this road either, but mandatory school uniforms sure would solve some of the male/female distractions. Middle school and high school would certainly benefit. It might help keep some teachers safe, too. Just throwing that out there … :-)
By Lynn
March 14, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this
I am a retired teacher, but I’ve heard of too many false sexual accusations in many settings-mostly by females. Law-in-forcement personal act much too quickly by arresting and publishing the name of the accused before getting “proof” that these accusations are true. Maybe if they would start punishing those who falsely accuse, then some of these false accusations would cease.
By One
March 14, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
V, yes, JM does have a valid point, I agree. As do you on the uniforms…….esp. at the middle/high school levels. And again, I agree about being able to let loose on some of these kids and their parents!!! Maybe that would get their attention, as some seem down right clueless!!! But, I digress…..
Have a safe weekend everyone!
By Jimmy
March 14, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
I am a practicing attorney. I had considered becoming a teacher. However, with the double standard, no way.
By jim d
March 14, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
In sexual cases Is it really the teachers that are being held to different standards based on their gender or is it more that they are being treated differently based on the childs gender?
i recall a couple of incidents in Fl. not long ago where two different female teachers recieved totally different sentences for sexual activities with students. One had been boinking a few of the boys and pretty much got a slap on the hands (I think house arrest) the other had preyed upon a student of the same gender and ended up getting something like 3 years plus 3 more probation. Granted a man doing either would have probably gotten 15 years for either of these crimes, but my question is why aren’t feamale teachers dealt with the same in cases like these?
By jim d
March 14, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
V,
don’t be too sure about the uniforms, Some folks have fetishes for “uniforms” :-)
By JH
March 14, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
I am a young male middle school teacher and I spent the entire length of my college years being preached to about never being alone with a student (regardless of gender). Now, I avoid any closeness with any student like the plague because I’m so paranoid that a pat on the shoulder or something else as innocent will be misconstrued and my career will be over because of it.
By Jane
March 14, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
Uniforms will NOT solve the problems facing the education system today. The culture has become sue happy! “Most” are not worth the paper written on. However, when one bad “apple” is convicted it pretty much gives a black eye to the profession. This not only goes for educators but for all professions.
By DeKalb Voter
March 14, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
In the news today was yet another female teacher having sex with a fourteen year old male student. There needs to be evaluation that we’re not hitting on given to these pedophile women. We most certianly need to yank away the double standards that have men serving more jail time for the same crime. You all do know the meaning of equality, right? If a guy does the same crime he gets fifty years, a woman gets probation. Perhaps such blatant special treatment, predicated on gender and vaginal parts, helps to render females to not be taken serious in the workplace. Owning a uterus is no excuse to break the law.
By Earl
March 14, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
Gos made women with smaller feet for a reason. With smaller feet they can get clser to the oven and the sink, where they belong. It’s the will of God.
By Earl
March 14, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
Gos made women with smaller feet for a reason. With smaller feet they can get clser to the oven and the sink, where they belong. It’s the will of God.
By Earl
March 14, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
Gos made women with smaller feet for a reason. With smaller feet they can get clser to the oven and the sink, where they belong. It’s the will of God.
By Magenta
March 14, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
I was a high school student in the 1970s and I did PLENTY of flirting with my male teachers. I had a crush on a different male teacher every year, in fact. My idea of flirting was smiling & making conversation but my parents never would have let me get away with dressing like a tramp. Still, the rules were a lot more relaxed, and some of the men flirted back. A little. It felt very safe, because I NEVER felt that these guys were ever taking me seriously in any way. And I think that’s the difference. There’s a lower caliber of teacher (both genders) getting hired nowadays; they are less mature and don’t understand boundaries. That’s why you hear more about these incidents. It’s sad.
By stephanie
March 14, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
As a female high schools student I definitely use my sexuality to entice attention from all my male teachers. I know if I catch them looking at me indecently that I’ve got them right where I want them.
By Magenta
March 14, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
Oh, and Earl, it’s raining outside, so you just crawl back under your rock.
By jct
March 14, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this
@jim d
I remember those FL cases. In my remembrance, the teacher who got the slap was very beautiful according to standards of American beauty (‘golden’ girl image); whereas the other woman was not attractive, did not dress very feminine, etc.
At the time I wondered about the disparity. Unfortunately, our values are shallow. If a person fits into that appropriate box of what looks right then we (myself included) have a tendency to think what they did may not be SO bad.
Some of my friends have discussed what was going through the jury’s mind. Maybe that they could not possibly send beautiful, fragile woman to jail where she could be possibly hurt. The other woman did not fit the model, so of course, we could send her to jail. She likes girls anyway.
It’s that the same type of thinking that hurts male elementary school teachers.
By County Tech
March 14, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this
I am not a teacher, but I do work for the school system. I am female just fyi. The FIRST thing my boss said to me was NEVER, EVER be alone in a classroom with a student and make sure you ALWAYS use an adults only/faculty restroom. My boss never wanted the possibility of an implication…and he told that to the males and females alike. It is sad we have 1.) the predators and 2.) the sue happy society and 3.) the outright lies these kids can and do tell no matter what happens to the reputation of the teacher. I agree, if they are guilty…string them up…but it takes a mere mention of wrongdoing to be blacklisted.
Jeff…as far as the AC dress code cure….my first thought would be “perv….trying to make it colder so their nipples stand out more”…but that’s just me and my “sick” military mentality…..not to mention I know men who do that FOR that purpose…my husband included LOL
By catlady
March 14, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this
Who is “Gos”?
I have seen several teachers’ careers ruined because of false allegations. A couple of them were male on male (a boy claiming a male teacher made an advance).
I know I am not as careful as I should be. I hug back if one of them tackles me. But I teach elementary school, and many of my kids hug, especially the girls. I try to never be alone with one of the boys, but I do sometimes pull a girl aside, (or,more likely, she asks to talk to me) and I do it in private. Guess I should not do that, either. Some of our kids are hurting so badly, and need some adult to talk to.
I feel sad that it has come to this. I used to allow kids to sit on my lap and read to me, if they wanted to.
A colleague and I were talking today about how our kids have VERY Little fun in school anymore. I am very sad about that also.
By mm
March 14, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this
I’m a male who has taught high school 15 years without any problems regarding this issue; however, you better believe I am always extremely careful about where I am and with whom at all times. If a student comes in to make up a test after school then my classroom door is open and I step out into the hallway every couple of minutes. The only times I have ever touched any female students was to hug them at graduation after they’ve gotten their diploma (but I always let them initiate the hug)! As a male teacher you can never be too careful. Hate to sound paranoid, and really I’m not paranoid but I always try to prevent any situation that could even potentially be miscontrued.
By Van
March 14, 2008 5:48 PM | Link to this
You could not pay me enough to be a teacher with today’s parents and the world like it is.
By Theresa
March 14, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this
hey laura — This is Theresa from the ajc’s MOM (ajc.com/momania) blog commenting. This is a great topic!! I’ve actually seen this issue from both sides. As a mom to an elementary student — a girl —I have to say that I do worry more about her being alone with men than with women. I even worry about the bus driver. My daughter is the last one on the bus in the afternoon — I literally time the bus from when it passes my house to go to the back of the neighborhood to come back to the front to drop off my daughter. We switched from a lovely old man bus driver to a young man bus driver and it does make me more nervous. If she had a woman I wouldn’t be worried at all. I know that’s unfair but it’s the way I feel. On the other hand, I have a very dear friend who was a male teacher who was accused one time by a mother of mistreatment of her child — not sexual but being rough — It was absolutely untrue and never pursued beyond the original accusation. But this person was put on leave and I believe hired a lawyer preparing to defend himself. Nothing else was ever said about but he was so hurt and felt so vulnerable to attack that he quit the teaching profession. A very sad thing. So I try to remember that.
By Library Lady
March 14, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this
The principal in our elementary school said that the day she was told you couldn’t hug a child was the day she would leave education.
Now I work in high school, and we in the library have male teachers ask us to speak to girls who need to cover up as the teachers feel they will be scolded for noticing the exposed cleavage (either type). Of course, we have to wait a few minutes so the girls don’t notice the prompt, but as mothers of teens ourselves it is apparently acceptable for us to correct both boys and girls on dress code violations. And I do agree that the men generally are held to a higher standard for professional dress than women; we had one staff member who routinely violated the students’ code with her plunging necklines, and some wear skirts on the edge.
By Wow
March 14, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this
I can’t believe how many misspelled words, grammar errors and broken sentences that have been posted here by people who claim to be educators. Maybe we should worry about teacher credentials and qualifications instead of the unfair and inconsistent treatment of males vs. females and blacks vs. whites. No wonder Georgia is at the bottom of the education chain!
By Guy
March 14, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this
Yes, we (or more correctly) they do have a different standard for men and women educaters. It is a sick and twisted word we have… especially when most sex offenders towards students are FEMALE teachers!!!
By Lee
March 14, 2008 9:16 PM | Link to this
Guess what? In today’s hyper-sensitive, litigious society, ANYONE who has a supervisory or custodial over another is at risk of losing their job or going to jail for “improper” conduct - whether that conduct is real or perceived.
Whenever I have someone in my office, I either keep the door open or the blinds open on the inside windows - especially when I have one of the young ladies in my office.
Teachers get put in the spotlight because they are in constant contact with the most vulnerable members of society - our children.
While I emphasize with the teacher in this story, my first responsibility as a parent is to protect my children. As a result, there is no way in Hell I would allow him to be around my children. I dont care how many juries found him not guilty.
Hypocritical?? That’s just the way things are…
By f(x) = 36x^2
March 14, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
To the tune that I was almost ran out of education in student teaching
You mean it WASN’T because you can’t use “run” and “ran” correctly?
By HB
March 14, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this
A couple of people have said most sex offender teachers are female. Can anyone actually back that up with good stats, because I don’t think it’s true. All of the cases I’ve heard of locally, several per year in several different cities where I’ve lived, have involved male teachers. The cases of female teachers I’ve heard about have all been on national news and seemed to attract national attention precisely because it is less common for female teachers to be accused, and therefore more of a novelty and “newsworthy”.
That’s not to say that we should all be suspicious of male teachers or that they should wear ties while female teachers where tank tops or that stats are justify unequal treatment of teachers. I would just like to know if what people have asserted here is true.
By V for Vendetta
March 14, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this
Wow, Last time I checked this was a blog, not a doctoral dissertation. You want ignorance … go check out Wooten’s blog.
:-)
By Jeff
March 15, 2008 6:13 AM | Link to this
HB:
Knowing that a female teacher’s sex abuse of a student is generally dealt with FAR more lightly than a male’s, it wouldn’t surprise me if the data is skewed.
And you can’t even check the amount of allegations, as we acknowledge that males are ACCUSED far more often than females.
The question remains: Who is more likely to have actually done it, males or females?
If you look at the FALSE allegation rates, I would claim that females are more predatory in this sense than males. After all, hearing about a false allegation involving a female teacher is RARE, particularly considering how often you hear about false allegations involving a male teacher.
By MamaS
March 15, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this
Americans think MEN should make as much money as possible in their careers. Teachers do not make money. Therefore, any MAN who becomes a teacher must be one of two things: (A) Not really a MAN and incompetent at making a living or (B) in it for something else, i.e. access to children. Until we respect teachers we will never understand or respect men who become teachers.
By Unknown
March 15, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
My husband is an 8th grade teacher and he has be very careful. He is still in his twenties looks very young and has problems with the female student trying to come on to him. He says that he has to keep his door open so that it doesn’t look like anything is going on. I think that female teachers are just as questionably as the male teachers.
By zoltanincobb
March 15, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
Until the irrational anti-sex hysteria subsides (it didn’t always exist - the media whipped this up in the last 2 decades) the male teacher will suffer. No one’s willing to do anything about it. Even truth telling seems out of bounds. Too bad judges, cops, and media people aren’t being targeted with these ridiculous accusations and their vastly inflated penalties.
On the bright side, I guess can blame all my life’s miseries on anyone who patted me on the butt when I was 12.
By zoltanincobb
March 15, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
Until the irrational anti-sex hysteria subsides (it didn’t always exist - the media whipped this up in the last 2 decades) the male teacher will suffer. No one’s willing to do anything about it. Even truth telling seems out of bounds. Too bad judges, cops, and media people aren’t being targeted with these ridiculous accusations and their vastly inflated penalties.
On the bright side, I guess can blame all my life’s miseries on anyone who patted me on the butt when I was 12.
By John Konop
March 15, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
Sonny & Casey Please Help!
We need a new direction in high school education, away from the heavy handed, one-size-fits-all No Child Left Behind system that has failed students and strained tax payers.
We need Governor Perdue and Lieutenant Governor Cagle to step up and lead, instead of rubber-stamping failed gimmick programs like Kathy Cox’s Math 123—we need real solutions.
More Choice, Not Less
Why not coordinate the current university, junior college system, certificate programs, and technical colleges with our high schools? Georgia’s only nationally-ranked high school academic program—the math program used in Cherokee, Cobb, and Fulton counties—currently coordinates its advanced math program with local colleges. Why not expand the concept to all high schools, instead of eliminating it, as Kathy Cox has proposed?
How to Expand
Beginning in the 11th grade, public high schools could coordinate curriculums with local universities, junior colleges, certificate programs, and technical colleges to give kids a chance to pursue job training or advanced academics. This would not only save tax-payer money, it would match students with their best opportunities to become productive tax payers after high school. Also, graduates that earn vocational certificates could still expand their education down the road. For example, a nurse’s aide could train to become a nurse.
University-track students would be eligible to have their junior and senior year course work coordinated with a university system, either on campus or via the internet. This would both challenge Georgia students and give them a leg-up when competing with students from other states. This idea has already been proven effective in Cherokee county’s advanced math program—which is nationally ranked.
Sonny and Casey
Please take the lead by giving Georgia counties the option to transform their public school districts into charter school districts and by helping facilitate the flow of funds between high schools and the higher education systems so we can implement this solution. We need you to take a leadership role in reforming our education system so it better invests in our children’s future while saving tax-payer’s money.
Please contact Sonny, Casey, your local principal, and local school board to demand that they give your children the academic and vocational choices they deserve.
Sonny Perdue can be reached at 404-656-1776 or click here
Casey Cagle can be reached at (404) 656-5030 or click here
http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/sonny-casey-please-help
By Maggie
March 15, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this
These things rarely happen, but when I was a new, young, female teacher I had a terrible time with the HS boys hitting on me. At different times I slapped a boy in the face for grabbing my bottom; whapped another one with a yardstick for the same thing and other various responses that were so automatic I did them before I realized what I was doing. They were effective, however. I was never provocatively dressed, either. I still remember when my daughter was in HS in the 90’s and she one very capable male teacher who was always looking for a reason for her to sit on his knee and complimenting her on her outfits - never provocative. She felt she had to do it or not get a good grade. Nothing else ever happened and she asked me not to get involved because she could handle it. This was in front of the whole class, too. Sometimes people do go over the line and parents, teachers and students are hesitant to smear a person forever over something not major. It is hard to know what to do.
By Gaeducator
March 15, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this
I believe it is my responsibility to make sure I am never in a bad situation. I teach 6th grade. Oftentimes students will come back to my room during my planning period because they forgot something. I immediately go into defensive mode and tell them to make sure they leave the door open before they retrieve whatever they forgot. The mere appearance of an impropriety can have long term effects. Being a male teacher in todays society mean you are guilty if accused until you can prove otherwise. Even when former students offer me a hug, I kindly pat them on the back and back away from them.
By OldSchool
March 15, 2008 7:06 PM | Link to this
I know that teachers and anyone in education are legally bound to report incidents and unethical actions between teachers and students but I just wonder how many would do so. Who would run the risk of being ostracized or having life made miserable by ratting out a colleague? Are identities of the “whistle-blowers” protected?
Reading all the above responses just made me curious. Like child abuse, could it be just the tip of the iceberg? Do you suppose there are far more incidents that NEVER come to light?
By Lee
March 15, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this
Say what?????
“I still remember when my daughter was in HS in the 90’s and she one very capable male teacher who was always looking for a reason for her to sit on his knee and complimenting her on her outfits - never provocative. She felt she had to do it or not get a good grade. Nothing else ever happened and she asked me not to get involved because she could handle it. This was in front of the whole class, too. Sometimes people do go over the line and parents, teachers and students are hesitant to smear a person forever over something not major. It is hard to know what to do.”
Do you know why we seem to hear more and more about this type of behavior? Because, 40 years ago, a male teacher who did the above would find himself on the receiving end of a bad can of whoopass, courtesy of an irate dad/uncle/granddad/cousin/brother.
Today, our schools give the students a banana and a condom and teach them how to put it on. Oh yeah, and that there’s nothing wrong with being a homo.
Little wonder why the perverts and pedophiles flock to teaching.
By HS Teacher
March 15, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this
There are almost 20 school systems in GA that have dual enrollment with Technical Colleges, including Clayton, Rockdale, Coweta, Gwinnett, etc. It is a very good program, and is expanding each year.
We do not want Charter Schools. Don’t you realize the teachers do not have to be certified, they don’t get paid, do not have any rights, and you can have as many students in your classroom as someone wants to put in there.
So, why did we get class size laws for K-8 then let Charter Schools exempt?
By RJ
March 15, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this
Face it, there IS a double standard when it comes to male teachers. The men are villified, and if found guilty, spend years in prison, while women quilty of the same crime get a slap on the wrist.
People wonder why there is a lack of men in K-12 education. I’ll yell you. You’d have to be a complete moron, if you’re a man and go into K-12 education. All you have to do is make someone mad, and you’re life is ruined by an accusation of misconduct. You also have to be a complete idiot if you think the kids don’t know this, and are MORE than willing to use this as a weapon, too.
By A.K.A. perv
March 15, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this
Well, I remember the good times I had under the bleachers with the cheer leader squads. Because I was a hot, good looking,GQ type male Biology teacher, I was always in demand to clear up any questions the youngsters had and was willing and able to offer that assistance.
* None of the above statement is true. This is just my feeble attempt at spoofing this blog. Don’t write your Congresman or your MaMa. I’m just bored here on a Saturday night and am spending a few minutes being silly.*
By Mister Teach
March 16, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
I am a teacher. I do not use “a banana and a condom” to show students how to use a condom. A banana is not a good visual representation of a penis. I use MY penis. If students are going to learn, hands-on experience is the best teacher. I love my job.
By Tyger
March 16, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
Its even worse than you imagine, as a former teacher, I was threatened by a new principle, on her first day on the job, with “innappropriate behavior”.
And when I asked for an example, she said she didnt need one, thats just how she does it? Does what, you ask? Keep you cowardly and fearful of her majesty, the principal.
By HCA
March 16, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
I was raised in the U.S. and attended grade school all the way through college in GA. My father who is Iranian told me that these sexual problems don’t exist in Iran (at least nowhere as close as here) because all schools up to high school are sex segregated. No sexual distractions - Also, boys and girls wear strict Islamic dress codes. Girls don’t wear T-shirts that say “100% Silicone Free”. There are no mini skirts, or hot pink shirts that show cleavage.
By Chris
March 16, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
Yes males do face more scrutiny when it comes to stuff like this, but at the same time males often are given much greater freedom to handle discipline issues - such as being very physical when breaking up fights. So I suppose it all evens out in the end.
There is also a double standard for age of male teachers. Im a 25 year old male high school teacher and I have to be even more careful than some of the older (40+) male teachers.
By Just my 2 cents
March 16, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this
Reading this column takes me back to a situation that occured back when I was in the 10th grade. One day after school a couple of classmates and I were walking through the gym headed to band practice. I had on a cute jumper dress that was kind of short but met the fingertip test they used back then to make sure it wasn’t too short. I also had on black tights underneath. Anyway we were walking throught the gym when I noticed one of the football coaches walking behind us. He never said a word. As we got down to the bandroom, one of my classmates said GIRL, PULL YOUR DRESS DOWN! The sway of my heavy bookbag made my dress come up exposing my rear to everyone. I was mortified. I immediately thought about the perverted coach walking behind us. I kept asking myself why did he not say anything? After reading this column I kind of empathize with him. He was probably thinking if he said something to me about my exposed rear, it could be misconstrued as him being some kind of perv that gets off by looking at the rears of high school girls.
I agree with the comments above about the double standard in the teaching profession. Their will be no change until the double standard society has about male and females end.
By Ray
March 16, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this
Is sad, but true. A male teacher will have to be extra careful when dealing with any student!
By don't stand so close to me
March 16, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this
I think it makes sense for males to be scrutinized more for sexual interest in students due to the necessarily more aggressive sexual nature of males in order to compete to perpetuate the species with the best genes for survival. Also, males are more likely to find youth and beauty attractive, just as their female students are more likely to find age, fatherliness, and intelligence attractive, so there is a more natural ‘match’ among male teachers and female students… although that doesn’t explain Demi Moore and Ashton Krutcher, does it? I think we have to be situational with all this. Each case is different and remember, it takes two to tango.
By GaLiberal
March 16, 2008 9:22 PM | Link to this
Men face a double standard period. Men are viewed by society as child molesters, wife beaters, rapists, murders, perverts, and everything vile. Women are viewed as docile, motherly, godly, and innocent. All one has to do is look at the death penalty. Jurys have no problems sentencing men to death, but never a woman - even for the same crime. Take the case of the woman that poisoned her husband and boyfriend. One male juror was quoted as saying he wasn’t going to be responsible for putting a woman to death so she gets life. If a man had done this to his wife and girlfriend it would be a no-brainer - stick a needle in him quick.
Of course, the Rethuglicons have exploited this skewed view, particularly with black males. Brian Nichols is a perfect example. Everyone is so enraged that he is getting a ‘gold plated’ defense and that it’s a travesty he hasn’t already been convicted and executed. If he was white, there wouldn’t be such an outcry and the Rethuglicon-controlled legislature wouldn’t be going after the judge that was just doing his job.
When you vote Rethuglicon, you vote against your own best interests. And the outrage over Brian Nichols is living proof.
By Ike
March 17, 2008 5:13 AM | Link to this
Strange: I am 70. I had quite a few stints as a principal, teacher, Scoutmaster, you name it.
I hugged my high school girls when they won tournaments or excitedly came by my office and told me, “Doc, I won a scholarship!”.
I was a summer Boy Scout Camp regular that included potty patrol and shower checks on my troop and others.
And I shared many other experiences which lead me to say this: In today’s world, if I were a young man, NO WAY would I ever do any of those things.The risks are simply too great.
I wonder if the world has suddenly found us hatching deviant males (and females).
Or: If all the other educators, coaches, Scoutmasters, etc. with whom I worked, were just never caught because it has ALWAYS been that way.
I knew my fellow professionals and volunteers pretty well. I lean more to the formar than the latter.
In conclusion, as a Catholic…No, I have raked the coals of hell enough for one day!
By jim d
March 17, 2008 7:03 AM | Link to this
Ike,
BSA’s youth protection plan still enables us to work with youth and CYA pretty well. In that regard I’d still highly recomend that adults become involved. (just follow the plan and maintain 2 deep leadersip) If we as Scouters give up on some of these kids, educators would most certainly feel the brunt of that decision as profoundly as if they themselves gave up.
YIS.
By John
March 17, 2008 8:22 AM | Link to this
I’m under the impression that now adays little 14 and 15 year old girls place bets on who’s going to bag their male teacher first.
By James
March 18, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this
I’m a male teacher, and I always keep my door open (even though I’m in a room that has a bunch of glass windows so everyone can see in) when there’s a female student in there with me. I’ve only closed the door with male students, when I sometimes need to talk to them about how they treat the girls or once when a student asked me a question about the differences between democrats and republicans. I work in a pretty red area of my state, so I took caution as to not be labeled “liberal” because while I am a republican-leaning independent, I share some of the democrats views. Plus I’m the only black teacher at the school I work at.
By Leytha
March 25, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
There is a double standard. I don’t know how many times a female teacher is accused of and even admits to haing sex with a male student, but somehow it isn’t her fault because she isn’t mentally stable or some bs like that. Then when it does go to court she is made to look like the victim. I think society views young adolesent boys as sex crazed maniacs and maybe some adult males have fantasized about sleeping with their pretty female teacher. Therfore when a boy is molested by his female teacher they have the “that’s my boy” attitude. We all need to realize these boys are just that boys, and these women are taking advantage of them. As a society we need to punish female teachers as harshly as we would punish a male teacher.