Get Schooled

By Vince

March 5, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this

Video of the meeting remined me of the Jerry Springer Show. Parents elected the fools to the Board and it is hard to feel much sympathy for them when they themselves act the fool. I think the extra security was needed for that meeting. Anywhere else it would be over the top.

I do feel sorry for the students.

By Jeff

March 5, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

Vast majority of the population of Clayton is black.

Enough said.

By Truth B Known

March 5, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

Look who is on the board and who is in the audience….what else do you need to know….

By jan

March 5, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

To Jeff, I am not black, a resident of Clayton County, or have kids in a public school system, but I find your post offensive. To imply that black citizens are more prone to violence merely because of their race is bigoted and despicable.

By V for Vendetta

March 5, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

It just shows you the type of people that live in Clayton County. Mind you, that’s not a blatantly racist statement like Jeff’s, but rather an oservation on the culture down there. Trust me, I’ve lived in rural white areas and the culture aint much better … is it, Jeff?

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Clayton County is the armpit of Atlanta.

By Jeff

March 5, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

V:

Name the last time you saw K-9 units and police choppers at a contentious school board meeting in a majority white area.

Until you’ve lived as a white man in a majority black area, you don’t have room to talk. I’ve SEEN with my own eyes the true nature of black society. You haven’t.

Furthermore: White culture typically tries to use words, and violence is only used when no other option is available. (Some have lower standards of ‘no other option’ than others, I’ll grant that.) Black culture instead reaches for the ‘9’ first and never asks questions.

A typical threshold for violence with a white person is actual physical violence being used against you. A typical threshold for violence with a black person is ‘they looked at me wrong’. No matter that the person in question wasn’t even looking in the general DIRECTION of the person using the violence.

All FACTS there, my friends.

By Jeff

March 5, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

jan:

Africa v Europe. Or even Africa v Asia. or even Africa v America (the continents).

Quite simply: Africa has been in a state of near-constant war that has outlasted all other areas on the globe save the Middle East. (And I might mention that one of the nations involved in many of the Middle East wars is technically African - Eqypt.)

By RCH

March 5, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

The facts speak for themselves. How do you account for this fiasco.

By Pamela

March 5, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

Yes a strong show of police prescence was needed,it shouldnt have bothered law abiding citizens, look at the area as a whole and search out not only the behaviors of the board members but the behaviors of the parents that attended, meaning did the parents dress professionally of did the follow suit with the kids that have to be reminded to “pull their pants up”, it was a circus…

By Pamela

March 5, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

Yes a strong show of police prescence was needed,it shouldnt have bothered law abiding citizens, look at the area as a whole and search out not only the behaviors of the board members but the behaviors of the parents that attended, meaning did the parents dress professionally or did they follow suit with the kids that have to be reminded to “pull their pants up”, it was a circus…

By Bring On Da Dogz

March 5, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

How did we get to this point? Mothers get into fights at Chuck-E-Cheese in front of their kids during a birthday party - how do you think they might behave at a contentious school board meeting? You have to ask?

By Jim

March 5, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

jan, I don’t think the comments by jeff and truth implied that because the residents are black that they are more prone to violence. I think he was implying that because most of the electorate in Clayton is black they are prone to elect board members who are motivated by race, personal gain and power (which happened), and that once the parents found out their choice in school board would affect their children’s future and property values, they would start screeching (which also happened), and despite the emotional pleas of their students, they can’t even get 100 signatures required to hold a recall election (which proves that while they recognize they fu**ed up by electing self-serving power-hungry people to the board, they don’t want to admit they screwed up by removing them).

Bottom line, the implication was that blacks can’t run an organization like a school board without fu**ing it up. While that is certainly a racist opinion, the Clayton School Board is sure trying hard to lend credence to it.

By Jim

March 5, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

Jan, my bad, I read Jeff’s next post.

He did imply that majority-black areas have higher rates of violent crime.

FYI, he’s right, although that had little bearing as to the high number of police at the meeting.

If an all-white school baord in an all-white area undertook actions that would strip college scholarships from kids and sink property values and then refuse to step down, I’m sure there would be a lot of whites who would want to drag the school board out in the street and beat their a**.

By meshal

March 5, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

‘I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: “V for Vendetta’ is the armpit of Educators all over the world, not just in the metro atlanta area.’

By Camille

March 5, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

Jim, I do believe that you should read Jeff’s response to V (and Jan) as he is actually implying that Black people are more prone to violence.

By Jim

March 5, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

Jan, my bad, I saw Jeff’s next post.

He did imply areas with a high % of blacks have higher violent crime rates.

He’s right.

However, I think that had little to do with the police at the meeting. If an all-white school baord in a majority-white district undertook actions that would cost scolarships, the pre-k program and sink property values and then refuse to resign out of personal pride, I’m sure a number of whites would want to drag the school board out into the street and beat them.

By Male Enhancement

March 5, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

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By SET

March 5, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

Jan: Truth be told, Blacks as a group are highly more violent. Whether you decide this based of stats or on experience the answer is no longer open to debate.

Pious statements about racism and equality don’t cut it anymore.

If the board, their experts, and the local security people want to take measures to keep a mob in control more power to them.

By catlady

March 5, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

The fruit rarely falls far from the tree.

By Jeff

March 5, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Jim:

Difference being that the whites wouldn’t bring weapons in to the board meeting. They’d at least wait till the people got outside. (Granted, they may physically drag them out, but my point about at least having the decency not to do the violence inside stands.)

By Rusty

March 5, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

It looked like Amatuer night at the Apollo. Hilarious! Jeff my man, I think you just kicked an ant hill. I agree with everything you said but that ain’t gonna save you. I just got beat down by a bunch of welfare moms on another blog so let me tell you “they is crunked up”

By Future Counselor

March 5, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

First on the topic: In that meeting, yes, police were necessary. Idiot parents that probably didn’t vote because they don’t usually complaining against idiot board members were a threat. Idiots no matter their colors are dangerous, which is why the police were there.

To this issue of black people being more violent: All socially-based studies show that yes, blacks are more prone to violence. However, let’s not forget the sample sizes here. Is EVERY black person you meet violent? Better yet, is one out of every black people you meet violence? Good Lord, I hope not. Otherwise, you lived in a terrible neighborhood. Unfortunately, a relatively small percentage of asses (the obvious ones along with the Jesses and Al Sharptons) have come to represent a whole race.

As a final note: If you are a teacher, for the children’s sake, please approach your class with a more rationalized view of things instead of taking in your biases. Read about this theory: Self- Fulfilling Prophecy.

By Truth B Known

March 5, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

The difference is that whites have better weapons that are harder to find. I don’t care if you are white or black, the stats don’t lie. Predominatly black areas have roughly double the violent crime problems that white areas have. If you want to be PC and afraid of saying the w or b word then so be it. For years people in the South have been afraid of telling the truth because it might “Offend” some groups. Get over it and face the truth.

By valjoe

March 5, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

Dear Ms. V for Vendetta, Not all people that live in Clayton County are ignorant and ghetto in which you are describing all RESIDENTS OF CLAYTON COUNTY!!! Again I say, when downtown Atlanta gave the residents who lived in the housing projects vouchers, many came scrambling to Clayton county which was a big mistake on the counties part. I’m just stuck in the middle of this mess.!!!!

By Future Counselor

March 5, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

I meant to say one out of every two black people. Sorry if that caused some confusion.

By CRAZY

March 5, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

How about that teacher abducted @ gunpoint from Washington High’s parking lot last night? Let’s talk about that…..

By Truth B Known

March 5, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

I tell you what…and this will settle the question. Lets hold the meeting again and have no police there and see how it comes out. Should be hilarious.

By Rusty

March 5, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

valjoe, “residents”?? You mean freeloaders? Why did they all come to Clayton anyway?

By V for Vendetta

March 5, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Sorry valijoe, I don’t enjoy making blanket statements. I didn’t know the only decent person in Clayton would be reading this blog.

Jeff, I’ve been immersed in white society for a long time, and seen the worst it has to offer, but I would dare say I don’t consider myself an expert on the RACE. Race and culture are two VERY different things, my friend. They are usually intrinsically linked, but at times they are not. You could argue that the higher level of violence in black culture could be due to a number of variables, the least of which is the color of their skin. (I still hold that that’s a poor arbiter of their violent tendencies.) Truth is, your arguments about Africa are also flawed. Africa is a contintent with very little education as a whole, and as a result it is stuck in a sort of societal vaccuum. While this doesn’t excuse the violence and genocide, it does parallel what was taking place in Western culture hundreds of years ago.

The Athenians and the Spartans were not above wiping out whole societies, neither were the crusading Christians of the middle ages. We consider them predominantly white.

As I said before, the presence of such heavily armed guards at the meeting tells us a lot about the culture and attitude of Clayton county. End of story.

By V for Vendetta

March 5, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

Jeff, the vast majority of suicide shooters are white. Do you get scared every time you go to the mall? Do you walk with fear through the halls of a mostly-white school? Of course not, because you know they don’t represent the MAJORITY. Just because they receive more media coverage than the valedictorian (which is part of the problem), doesn’t mean they represent the majority of the race. Am I making sense to you?

By Jeff

March 5, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Athens is also known as the home of Democracy, among other things.

Sparta is known for its military prowess. Indeed, lessons learned from Spartan strategy have shaped militaries around the world for hundreds of years.

What of any non-violent signficance has come from Africa other than its deposits of natural resources (gold, diamonds, etc) and the ancient Egyptians?

By HB

March 5, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

Jeff wrote: Until you’ve lived as a white man in a majority black area, you don’t have room to talk. I’ve SEEN with my own eyes the true nature of black society. You haven’t.

Jeff, you really are full of it. I live as a white woman in a majority black area. I love my neighborhood and have never witnessed any violence there. The neighborhood schools are fantastic with a high school consistantly ranked among the bext in the country. I have been a victim of nonviolent crime — my car was stolen from a parking garage down the street a few years ago, but I had another one stolen 10 years ago at Emory, so racial composition of the neighborhood doesn’t appear to be a factor. My car was also broken into and the stereo stolen in my predominantly white neighborhood in the northeast in between those two incidents.

I attended two GA public high schools, one majority black and one majority white. They were academically comparable and had similar rates of violence — about a fight per day — but the one that was majority white had two major violent incidents when I was there, one involving white kids, one involving both black and white kids.

So I do have room to talk, and my observation is that you are flat out wrong and certainly don’t have all the “facts” as to people’s “true nature” that you think you do.

By Future Counselor

March 5, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

I’m wondering what is gained by making generalities about Africa and black “society”? What does it have to do with blacks in general? Nothing! The only thing that you can make a educated hypothesis about black culture or society out of the Clayton County situation is that the black society in CLAYTON COUNTY is prone to violence and nasty situations, and even that statement can’t generalize because of the probability of ONE person making that null.

Even sociologists and social psychologists are hesitant to make blanket statements even though there are clear patterns. No, it’s not because they are political correct pigs. It’s because they know that correlation does not imply causation.

You’ve completely lost the point of post. Most residents in Clayton County have ignored their children and whose running their schools. As a result, the school board has snowballed out of control to the point where the school will no longer be accredited. What the hell that has to do with Africa, I don’t know. What it has to do with is the ignorant asses that have let Tom, Dick, and Harry run their school into the ground. Now, they want to raise pitchforks and get loud. THAT is the problem.

By V for Vendetta

March 5, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

LOL, Jeff. You’re right.

Those Egyptians didn’t do a whole lot (invent paper, create the largest man-made objects on the face of the planet …)

There was also that whole dawn of human civilization thing, you know, the one that eventually led to the start of civilized society on the banks of the Euphrates?

No biggie.

By DB

March 5, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

I don’t think that the police presence would have intimidated me if I were a Clayton parent — but look at it this way: They KNOW the parents are completely p.o.’d. Not only are their kids facing real problems with non-accreditation (no HOPE? eek!), for most of them, their major asset — their home — has just taken a nose-dive in value. And it’s ALL because of those yahoos they voted onto the school board.

If there wasn’t a police presence and something HAD happened, then everyone would have been piously pointing to the police and saying, “Gee, you knew they were angry, why didn’t you take precautions?!”

No win scenario, from the police point of view.

Just out of curiosity, exactly what does SACS want Clayton County to do in order to keep its accreditation? Is it possible to comply before September 1st? I’m assuming that what needs to be done WILL be done by September 1st, so I’m not that worried about the kids losing their access to HOPE or college funding. But it’s going to be messy, in the meantime. The police were just there to make sure it wasn’t bloody, as well.

By SET

March 5, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

V: There is also the thinking that violence internationally is tied to (avg) IQ levels of the population. Lower group avg IQs reflect group impulsivity. Calculated violence is one thing, killing each other at birthday parties, cocktail parties, BBQ’s, “disrespect” killings, rape gangs, rioting, etc are a reflection of that impulsiveness of the players concerned.

Also the mortality tables of the various ethnics in the USA are illustrative. What do blacks at all ages die of greatly out of synch with Asian & white ratios? Trauma.

School districts here can plan for violence and other pathology when they see demographic changes coming to their campuses. The CA teachers unions saw that coming when the schools tried to tie pay to performance in districts that were turning darker. The unions said no way would they go along with accepting more minority students with a pay calculation that penalizes the teachers for deterioration of scores.

In CA the economy is producing demographic changes where blacks are leaving the expensive coastal areas and moving into the less expensive interior bringing with them elevated levels of pathology which can be mathematically forecast (ER admits, murders, burglaries, carjackings etc). Now that we have planners working for both the municipalities and the unions the numbers are being forecast. They don’t brag about use of race in forecasts but..

We can also forecast changes when whites are leaving or arriving. We have extrordinary dangerous whites, especially the meth users. But they are not the main problem.

This thread didn’t start out as another race thread but that’s the way it goes when someone complains that blacks are being picked on. Blacks are usually never being “picked on” when people take defensive action. It’s expensive to do these things that the school board did and they wouldn’t have implemented security if they hadn’t been burned once already. Our ghetto schools have the riot planning of a state prison, complete with SWAT practice & mutual aid plans for adjacent cities’ police. Is that “racist” of just good administration? What does “racist” mean anymore nowadays after Katrina?

Remember the Rodney King Riots in Los Angeles? The Korean merchants learned a lot from that (and from the Katrina fiasco) and when the next riots come - and everyone knows there will be a next time - the Koreans and the other ethnics are heavily armed and ready to protect themselves and their property. They now understand that the government (police) are not there to protect anybody in a crisis - in America you are responsible for yourself and your family.

On the “racist” front, there is significant black and hispanic representation in Law Enforcement here. They don’t hold back in use of force either as they understand what they are dealing with in the streets and it’s not Ken & Barbie. The most feared court bailiffs and police officers I know are the large black women. They smile during combat and seem to be pleased.

I still insist we would be having so many of these problems if the public school did it’s job socializing all the students in the K-12 years by maintaining serious discipline and eliminating the toxic self-esteem.

By Truth B Known

March 5, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

How the hell did we go from Clayton County to Athens and Sparta….did I miss something????????

By Jackd

March 5, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

Remember the blog posts on Monday Re: the private vs. public schools data controlling variablesS?

If these studies that show blacks are more violent than other groups had used that Hierarchical Linear Modeling that Tony et al were talking about maybe they would have come up with an entirely different finding.

By meshal

March 5, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

To Ms v: ‘I didn’t know the only decent person in Clayton would be reading this blog.’ That’s not a surprise; since your level of ignorance is at an all-time high. Geez, how I pity the children in your classes!!

By Vince

March 5, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

V is for Vendetta:

…ummm…The Euphrates is in Asia.

By V for Vendetta

March 5, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

meshal, I would love to know what ignorant things I’ve said on here today. Clayton County is a cesspool, and while I was being facetious when addressing valijoe, I stand by the fact that Clayton is a county beyond hope.

Sorry I don’t meet your lofty standards for blog wisdom, I’ll try and do better.

By Mapmaker

March 5, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

Truth: from Clayton County, go north on 285 to 78 east - this will take you to Athens. From Athens, go south on 129 to Georgia 16 and go east to Sparta. Hope this helps.

By V for Vendetta

March 5, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

SET, I completely understand. I just hesitate to make blanket statements about racial groups. Perhaps it is my hyper-sensitivity to the situation due to being born and raised in the South, but I think the situation in Clayton is more of an example of pathetic politics and cultural ignorance than anything. True, in a socio-demographic sense, the county does appear to be severly disadvantaged. It tends to represent the worst of black culture, and has, over the years, become the red-headed stepchild of Atlanta.

That having been said, it is still hard for me to make it a completely racial issue. While your comments tend to be true more often than not, there are still plenty of places here in our fair city that show evidence to the contrary. And, like I said before, I have grown up saturated in white culture and have found many things to dislike about it. The same can be said about any cultural group.

If we forget that, then we are lost. We don’t need to be afraid of truths — some “stereotypes” are true more than they are wrong — but we don’t need to use that as an excuse to be racist without cause. I’ll gladly turn my nose up at an ignorant person regardless the color of their skin.

In my mind, that’s what it all boils down to — Clayton county is run by ignorant fools. The public would do well to remove them, but, unfortunately, many of them are not a great deal smarter. It’s sad.

By Jeff

March 5, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

Mapmaker:

I had SOO forgotten about Sparta, GA! I actually interviewed there one time. From what I remember, it was a pleasant town and I don’t recall its problems being any more serious than that of any other small rural town.

Most CERTAINLY not anything like the Clayton fiasco!

By V for Vendetta

March 5, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

Yes, Vince, thank you. I don’t believe I ever said the Euphrates was in Africa, I simply said that was where early human society began. Sorry for any confusion, I’ll be more clear next time.

By Mapmaker

March 5, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

Vince - Euphrates has me stumped - but I can get you to Eufaula if you’re interested!

By jim d

March 5, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

Oh my!!

police—choppers and dogs. Oh my!!

Guess we’re not in Kansas any longer toto!

Crowd control is a part of law enforcements job, Not a part I’m certain they enjoy—but none the less a part.

My guess is that any one offended by this presence (black, yellow, red, or white) had thoughts of doing no good. If the police presence managed to help change their minds, thats a good thing! But this one really ain’t nothing. As memory serves (and that is questionable these days) back around 99 Gwinnett held a BOE meeting where over 600 people showed up. At that meeting we had armed-uniformed police every where and even more in plain clothes. i don’t recall being offended about that—to the contrary, i was glad they were there to keep things from getting out of hand and innocent people being injured.

By CiCi4

March 5, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

If you have ever watched a Clayton County School Board meeting you would know that the police might be needed in case some of THEM lost control. One of the factors cited in the SACS report was the way the school board members spoke to administrators during meetings.

By meshal

March 5, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

V: don’t worry; you can’t you are beyond hope

By Tony

March 5, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

Remember the blog posts on Monday Re: the private vs. public schools data controlling variablesS? If these studies that show blacks are more violent than other groups had used that Hierarchical Linear Modeling that Tony et al were talking about maybe they would have come up with an entirely different finding. Wow! I’ve been referenced.

As SET has so eloquently pointed out, the data has been analyzed and is pretty clear. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think Hierarchical Linear Modeling, Multiple Linear Regression, or any other statistical tests would produce different conclusions. These methods only work when you are comparing measures that are somewhat close to begin with.

The citizens of Clayton County deserved to have the police presence. Based on the past actions of board members, the reinforcements were probably there for them more than the public.

By Lee

March 5, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this

Statistics. You want statistics?

Here’s a whole passel of them courtesy of the US Dept of Justice.

Yes Dorothy, it does seem that there is a difference in the criminal statistics between the races.

At first glance, it does seem that the police went a bit overboard. That is, until you consider you had 2500 p** off people in a small, confined area. Wouldn’t take much of a spark to light that fuse.

By V for Vendetta

March 5, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

meshal,

Never fear, I have hope to spare. For starters, I don’t live in Clayton County … .

By Missy

March 5, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

I am glad i dont live in Georgia anymore. Just reading this pathic Blog reminds me Why i left in the first place. Its not just Clayton, Georgia as a whole has the worst school system!!

By Love my 4 kids

March 6, 2008 2:21 AM | Link to this

The perfect candidate for government school leadership speaks! Thank you Larry Elder….http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=58136

By WFC

March 6, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this

I have a question. Regardless of race, how many homes in Clayton Co. have both a mother AND a father actively involved in the raiising of the children? How does this stat compare with other areas?

I contend that a good father brings a lot to the table and his presence mitigates against violence. You are kidding yourself if you believe that the “single mom” syndrome doesn’t contribute to violence. It’s time for dads to step up. Don’t father children unless you are willing to help raise them for 18 years! Too many women are left to struggle to raise children and too many women lack the tools to succeed.

By SET

March 6, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

V: As the previous poster pointed out, Blacks in the USA as a norm were not raised in homes with the fathers present. It doesn’t matter why, it’s what we have going on. Across the generations that is another reason why USA blacks as a group are simply more violent and impulsive than any other ethnic including Hispanics.

If anything things are getting worse. I still maintain that properly run public schools could mitigate much of this damage. Instead, the public schools aggravate the damage by carefully teaching black children that the world revolves around them and their feelings due to their blackness and their victim status.

So we get black kids marching off to the prisons and graveyards. Or just getting into fights with Meter Maids and store clerks.

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March 6, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

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