Get Schooled

By Jan

February 18, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

My comment - slightly on topic: If you are talking about the article in the AJC Sunday, it wasn’t a ” great article”.

I couldn’t figure out why the school system was in trouble. I was left thinking that if the schools weren’t teaching the kids, then they deserved to lose the accreditation.

Though the kids interviewed seemed to be great students - are they representative of the county system?

Since no mention was made of why the system was in trouble, I was left thinking “well they appear to have had trouble in the past, not cleaned it up and now trying to blame someone else for lurch they’ve left the students in.”

By jim d

February 18, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this

OH MY!!

Can we all say “Class Action?”

By LydiasDad

February 18, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

Have school’s let students down? Well, duh.

By LydiasDad

February 18, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

The schools are probably ruined by illegals, just the upcoming Lake Forrest Elementary in Sandy Springs will be.

By Plainly Spoken

February 18, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

And what exactly is “the school” here that has “let the students down”? An entity run and controlled by an incompetent, clueless school board. And who chose and elected the members of that school board? Incompetent, clueless parents of those same students. So, who has been let down by whom?

It ultimately is an irrefutable truth that “we get the government we deserve.”

By Lugnut

February 18, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

Rules of Discussion:

No criticism may be directed at any School board member or teacher.

Parents may be criticized.

When proposing solutions, only one is allowed - the system needs more money.

If the preceeding does not fix the problem or if sufficient money is not sent, then it is permissible to blame racism, after which more money is required to make this topic go away.

Thank you.

By Dan

February 18, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

If any student or parent wants an answer to why they didn’t get a HOPE scholarship all they need do is look in the mirror. That is simply where you will find the first and last people responsible. Oh and that comment is not made in support of teachers or schools administrations, simply a statement of personal responsibility. The HOPE scholarship is already given to far to many kids that can’t handle college in the first place.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

February 18, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

One question: How can we trust Elgart’s (head of SACS) integrity when, in a twenty seven page report, there isn’t a single mention of school board member Rod Johnson KNOWINGLY hiring an accused, now indicted, child sexual predator?!

An ommision, that glaring, that egregious, calls the whole question into report.

By Tony

February 18, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

Jan is right in saying the newspapers have not given the parents enough details of the problems with the BOARD MEMBERS of Clayton County schools. I highlight board members, because they have let the kids down and not the individual schools. For the community to make appropriate decisions about how to respond, the details of the board members’ actions should be provided.

Based on what I have read in the SACS report, it sounds as if nearly all of the board members have acted inappropriately. Clayton County citizens must hold these board members accountable.

While the emotional articles may get people stirred up about the situation, they do not provide the kind of information needed to make decisions. Answering questions about why it is wrong for board members to push personal agendas and meddle in day to day operations would be more helpful. Highlight the details about conflicts of interest. Investigate why the board members ridicule staff members during public meetings. Review the audit findings and let parents know more about appropriate spending practices.

There are so many more questions that deserve to be answered for the citizens of Clayton County and the state of Georgia. All of us pay taxes that help to support the schools and children in Clayton County and I suspect that all of us in some way will support those schools during these dark days.

By Jack

February 18, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

I agree with Jan. THe AJC has not done a good job of explaining exactly why Clayton is on the verge of losing accreditation.

As far as the rezoning causing changes in the school… [Sometimes student test scores plummet and parents wonder if the school is still right for their children], that only supports a fact that has been pointed out on this blog by many posters, many times :*a schools test scores are not as much a reflection of the faculty and administration as they are a reflection of the type of students in the school.

There were several examples when NCLB transfers resulted in large numbers of students leaving a “failing” school and transferring, en masse, to a school whose scores were high. The scores of the receiving school declined significantly,even though there was no change in faculty or curriculum.

By Clayton teacher

February 18, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

The loss of accreditation has nothing to do what is happening in the schools.

There are nine actions that must take place in order to get out of this mess, and six of them are board related. According to SACS, the board operates in a state of chaos.

The system must find a superintendent which was not previously reprimanded for cheating on a standardized test, and an audit must take place.

The only one that is school related is student attendance which is absurdly ironic considering that there is no real attendance policy in place in the high schools. The county relies on the state policy for attendance - students may lose their driver’s license for absenteeism. That is it. I have a student on my roll that I have not seen since the fourth week of school-FIRST SEMESTER.

There are some real problems in this county that come from the top. Teachers and the majority of the students are truly doing the best they can while dealing with top level incompetence.

By me2

February 18, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

I too read the article hoping to find out what the Clayton School system had done wrong. Can anybody answer that?

By me2

February 18, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this

I too read the article hoping to find out what the Clayton School system had done wrong. Can anybody answer that?

By Tony

February 18, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this

Now to address the questions in your ending paragraphs. When schools’ test scores plummet, there is usually an associated trend of decline in other demographic areas rather than the school itself. The leading indicator of student achievement is socioeconomic status. This is well known but often ignored.

When people choose to align themselves with a particular leader rather than establishing connections within the organization, their are doomed to failure. Following a leader because of his or her good merits is OK as long as you also align your values with those around you. This alignment with those closest to you is where the true strength of an organization lies. If the teachers of a school worked together to maintain high standards for a school, then it is more likely for that school to remain strong.

Finally, when your values do not match up with those around you, it is time to leave. There are many opportunities for good teachers throughout this state and nation.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

February 18, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

Again, twenty seven pages in the SACS report. And not one word on GAE member Rod Johnson KNOWINGLY hiring an accused, CHILD SEXUAL PREDATOR to work in the school system?!!!

This report raises as many questions about Elgart and SACS as it does the school board, especially considering Johnson and Elgart had private meetings before the “investigation”?

By Kym

February 18, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

What choices do you have when the school you hoped for no longer exists?

*Homeschool *Private School *Move out of that district *Move out of the state

After some recent discussions with other parents it is really up to us to demand better of our schools not just here in Georgia but across the nation and that means being more involved. While what is happening in Clayton is horrible maybe it is for the best. Maybe it will be awake up call to other school systems to get in gear and stop talking the talk and actually walk the walk.

By Dick

February 18, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

I feel being teh spouse of a teacher the question should be “Have the parents/guardians” let our hildren down. Had a friend tell me teh toher day if you have a teacher who can’t make the children learn they should be terminated. My reply to hiime as he is in management was “If you are training me to run the control room of your kaolin factory and you know I don’t know the difference in rotate and turn and I can’t still learn the system, should you be fired?” Of course his answer was no, I should be fired. Why? His duty was to teach that he was given to learn how to operate machinery. We are giving our teachers crack baies, alcohol syndrom babies, pure out spoiled rotten to the core babies , ADHD, ADD, ABC kids and we contiue to blame the teachers because they can not learn. Could it be our school systems today are no longer education facilities, but rather baby sitting services. I think the latter. All the teaches fault. At your last PTA meeting, number of parents in attendance?? Last football game, number of parents in attendance?? I rest my case.

By Jeff

February 18, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

Attn:ClaytonParents:

Until the person in question is PROVEN guilty in a COURT OF LAW, Mr. Johnson hasn’t done anything wrong in hiring him.

Even assuming the person in question IS found guilty in a court of law, as long as Mr. Johnson can prove that he could not have known about this incident at the time of hiring this person, Mr. Johnson has done nothing wrong.

And correct me if I am wrong, but two facts seem to jump out at me in general here: A) Mr. Johnson is on the BOE, correct? As in NOT the head of the Clayton County Schools HR Dept?? B) Assuming my thoughts on A) are correct, isn’t the hiring of teachers in large school systems typically simply a rubber stamp at the BOE level?? Now, assuming both A) and B), could it not be then concluded that this person being hired is not truly the fault of Mr. Johnson, even if he did play a political role in it?

By Katie

February 18, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

I think the students have made the schools look poor, not the other way around.

By Jason

February 18, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

Like Jan and me2, I haven’t the slightest clue what specifically is wrong with the school system. The media have done a horrendous job of covering this story. Are we talking about poor performance by students? By teachers? Administrators embezzling money? Cronyism? Racism? Regardless of the issue(s), why don’t they just fire all the employees in the district instead of punishing the kids?

By Attn: Clayton Parents

February 18, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

The reason you can’t find out what Clayton “did wrong” is that Elgart, head of SACS provided political cover to GAE members on the board.

Reports are Elgart’s own people were so concerned with his lack of objectivity that they warned board members that fellow board member (and GAE member) Ericka Davis was constantly at the SACS offices with Elgart during the investigation.

Isn’t it rather inappropriate that Elgart, the head of SACS, would be taking private visits from a woman that he is supposed to be “objectively” investigating?

Much more to this story than you’re getting from the newspaper. Much more.

By Janine

February 18, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

So Laura Is there a reason the AJC didn’t enumerate the SACS issues with Clayton? It seems quite a few readers are in the dark about it. Maybe you could get an answer from your colleague Megan Matteucci and pass it on. Maybe even suggest she clear this up for all her readers.

By teach1

February 18, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

The entire SACS report is available for anyone. There was a link to the report next to the AJC article. If you read the report the problems are very clear. I don’t think the AJC is holding anything back. We just have to read a bit more. Here was a good summary: http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/2008/02/16/sacs0216.html?cxntlid=inform And here is a link to a page with the whole report for you to read: http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/clayton/stories/2008/02/15/accreditation_0216.html?cxntlid=inform

By Dick

February 18, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

Need outside investigator. I suggest either Columbo or Matlock. They can let us know in at least two hours. It indeed is a shame and disgrace teachers can’t teach the subjects in a way the students she has in class and not Washingtons way and it indeed is a shame politics have taken over our educational system, from local level to federal level.Our senators and representatives, again state and federal, have no idea how to operate an educational system. They screw up their political system time after time after time. They have the worse ethics investigations one can find.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

February 18, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

You have a wrong, but understandable assumption. Johnson didn’t “rubber stamp” this hiring. In fact Johnson “walked it through” without the board’s knowledge OR approval!

This paper hasn’t covered it, but there was a big story on it in the Clayton News Daily. (And by the way, the News Daily is very anti-MACE, and GAE member Rod Johhson is a sworn enemy of MACE, but they found this story so shocking they ran it anyway.)

Johnson brought the hire in question over to interim Supt. Duncan’s home. Told her she needed a “bodyguard” and with her being new (and already politically compromised because she was previously involved in a cheating scandal) she didn’t want to buck the vice chair of the school board.

He wanted her to have the “bodyguard” so he could have a 24/7 spy on Duncan’s movements (he was trying to bully the interim Supt. to accept a new “organizational chart” that would give his wife a MAJOR job promotion)

Again, there is much, much more to this SACS “report” than you are getting from this paper.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

February 18, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

Teach1,

Not holding anything back? You don’t find it odd that no one is questioning why GAE member Rod Johnson KNOWINGLY hiring an accused child sexual predator doesn’t merit a single word in the report?

You don’t find it odd that Rod Johnson’s wife (GAE member and State Rep. Celeste Johnson) illegally double dipping (drawing her full Clayton salary while away in the General Assembly) doesn’t merit a single word in the report? Even though an Open Records request for her paystubs CONFIRMED this happened?

Have you read about this in the AJC? If not, is it not reasonable to conclude the AJC is “holding something back” especially considering the editorial board’s well known bias against MACE?

By HOPEing

February 18, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

I have not yet read any accounts of the school crisis in Clayton County affecting the curriculum or quality of teaching and/or overall education that the students are receiving. The cited reason for denying certification appears to be the ineptitude of the school board. Not the teachers or the students. In light of that, there is no reason a graduating high school student, from Clayton County, should be denied the HOPE Scholarship. Especially if that student has learned enough and academically qualified for acceptance to a school of higher learning, in Georgia, that accepts the scholarship. Also, unless the rules have changed in the past few years; I know (first hand) that the dependent of a Georgia citizen may qualify for the HOPE Scholarship regardless of where that student attended high school. And whether or not it is in the state of Georgia.

By Capt

February 18, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

You folks are assuming that the AJC is complete in its reporting. As usual the writer had the direction of the article in mind before any investigation was initiated. Once again the AJC has not let the facts of the matter get in the way of good yellow tabliod journalism.

By Jeff

February 18, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this

Attn:ClaytonParents:

You also have a wrong, but understandable - barely - assumption:

Ron Johnson did NOT hire a child predator.

The BEST you can claim is that he hired an ACCUSED child predator.

I ACCUSE you of the murder of MLK Jr. Does that mean you did it?

By Attn: Clayton Parents

February 18, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

HOPEing,

The real reason Elgart (head of SACS) is threatening to yank accreditation is that he is giving political cover to a power play by GAE to reduce MACE’s influence (Because they are upset that they are losing members-and money!- to MACE when teachers see the difference in level of support MACE gives teachers and GAE gives administrators)

If you don’t believe me, ask yourself these questions (and ask yourself why the AJC hasn’t asked them?)

Why, in a twenty seven page report, is there not a single mention of GAE member Rod Johnson KNOWINGLY hiring an accused child sexual predator?

Why in a twenty seven page report is there not a single mention of GAE member Celeste Johnson (wife of Rod) illegally double dipping from the schools when an Open Records request has CONFIRMED it?!

Why in a twenty seven page report is there not a single mention of Ericka Davis’ micromanaging emails-from a state computer on state time no less-when the emails in question have been posted on the Internet?!

Then ask yourself why the AJC hasn’t asked these questions.

How many times did Elgart meet with Johnson before the so-called “investigation”?

How many times did Elgart meet privately with Davis during the investigation?

Isn’t in very inappropriate for Elgart to meet privately with a woman that he is allegedly “objectively investigating”?

By Redtop

February 18, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

I do not understand why the schools lose their accredidation when it’s the board members who have been the issue. Why not punish the school board as opposed to punishing the system/children for something they had no control over? Impeach the entire board and get some honest replacements who care about the schools and children and not themselves.

By teach1

February 18, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

My statement about the AJC holding nothing back referred to the SACS report. People were stating they could not find info on why the accredidation was in question. I simply referred them to the report. Now I agree that there are/could be many other issues with the clayton county school system. I was simply saying there is enough info in the report as it stands for the system to be under question. The other issues not included in the report are open for discussion.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

February 18, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

Say your on a school hiring committee to interview a teacher. You find out the teacher has been accused, (now indicted) on child molestation charges. You find out the teacher has been fired from his previous job due to inappropriate actions with minors (as what happened with this “bodyguard”)

Without passing judgement on his guilt or innocence, don’t you take a pass on this candidate until the legal process runs its course?

Or do you take the candidate, drive him to the Superintendent’s home and demand he be hired?

Come on now Jeff. Seriously.

By Tray

February 18, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

instead of complaining about kids not getting their ‘Free HOPE’ scholarship-forget it. WHAT PARENTS NEED TO DO IS ENCOURAGE THEIR KIDS TO GET SCHOLARSHIPS ON THEIR OWN!

My college was absolutely free to me, because i busted butt in high school. I didn’t get a ‘free’ scholarship for passing with a B, I got multiple scholarships for passing with honors, playing soccer, and being active in other extra-cirricular activities. if a student glides through school with a B average (and yes, getting a B is quite easy if your kid(s) pay attention, and you pay attention to them), that doesn’t mean squat. If a kid really wants to go to college, they need to prove it by doing better than a B. And you can’t blame teachers! Why cant you? Because it’s still possible to learn from a book and from parents!!

I don’t care who points a finger at who, because the parents pointing have 3 fingers pointing back at them! Give teachers the ability to discipline students again with a ruler across the @$$, and you’ll have more passing kids. And if you’re really worried about your kid going to college, then help them study until midnight instead of having them roam the streets until midnight. The scholarships and grants will come if you make the grade, no matter what school you graduate from whether it’s accredited or not!

By Attn: Clayton Parents

February 18, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

Say you’re not “your” of course (in the first sentence)

By Under the radar

February 18, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

There has been, it seems, haphazard coverage of this issue, but the AJC’s not the worst. The local TV stations have all but ignored this issue, which could significantly impact thousands of families in the metro Atlanta.

From conversations with Clayton Co. employees, the assessment of these long-timers is that the school system is a “cess-pool” which needs to be cleaned out. When an administrator who was fired for commiting fraud in the testing program becomes the superintendent, how do you maintain any semblance of an expectation of ethical behavior?

When area superintendents are supervisors for their own (principal) spouses (and spouses’ best friends), it’s apparent that the trouble is deeper than the school board.

When all the students in an elementary school are held in the cafeteria all day long for Coretta Scott King’s televised funeral…what GPS did 7 hours of curriculum did that address?

Clayton’s problems are beyond the school board and it seems that SACS has given that wake-up call. Hopefully the state DOE will be able to help them identify some competent administrators who’ll be given the opportunity to make hard decisions and follow through.

Bottom line: the students who are working hard shouldn’t be penalized by the horrible failure of adults to behave maturely.

By horrible wording

February 18, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

Why in the world would you say, “When schools let students down” ?? No school has done anything to any child. This is the result of a few egotistical, ignorant, corrupt pieces of filth in the Board.

By Under the radar

February 18, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

Coretta Scott King’s televised funeral…what GPS did 7 hours of curriculum did that address?

Correction: What 7 hours of learning tied to math, English, etc. GPS did that address?

By 4 Real

February 18, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

Given the opportunity to pass a resolution in support of the Clayton County legislators at the Gold Dome to create a substantive ethics policy for Clayton County Board of Education members, the only Board member to vote against it was the MACE member Michelle Strong. MACE employee Norreese Haynes did not show up to vote. Neither did MACE toadies Lois Baines-Hunter and Sandra Scott. Why wouldn’t MACE want to support a substantive ethics policy for the school board? I wonder….

By jim d

February 18, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

I find it rather baffling that parents in Clayton county have failed to follow legal procedures to rid themselves of this garbage, yet they come to these blogs to complain nothing has been done.

Any of y’all know how to proceed with a recall petition? Any of you willing to place your hat in the ring to run for these BOE seats and clean up this mess or you just going to keep complaining the paper fail;ed to do something.

How about your responsibility? They’re your kids! Your tax dollars and your schools!

By MyOpinion

February 18, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

In my opinion a school is a building used by teachers to educate students who enter it. With that said, a school cannot let students down because it is an inanimate object. The true questions should be “When the education system let students down?” After reviewing and comparing the test scores of Clayton County for the 05-06 year and some of the 06-07 year, in my opinion the schools have a decent percent of students passing (Average of 70%-75%). That range is not the best, but it is also not the worst. Cobb County serves over 52,000 students. With the SACS cutting the accreditation of the entire county, this means the 40,000 students who are taking their education seriously enough to at least pass the these standardized test are being punished for a system breakdown, something which they cannot control. This is also a punishment for the teachers/principals who taught these 40,000 students who passed these test because they are apparently teaching them something if the students are passing these exams. This affects the students on an even wider scale. Public schools are not like college, if your child is a resident in one county, you cannot just place your child into another public school because you want too. If that were the case, people would not be upset because there local school lost accreditation because your child would have already been in the best public school around. Even if they are accepted to another public school, the students may not be able to transfer their credits to other high schools, setting them back a semester or more.

Kathy Cox:* As Superintendent of Schools, I will work with the Department of Education, the Board of Education, the Governor, the Legislature, and Georgia’s teachers, administrators, parents, and students to significantly improve our state’s educational system. It is the mission of the Department of Education to function as a service-oriented and policy-driven agency that meets the needs of local school systems as they go about the business of preparing all students for college or a career in a safe and drug-free environment where we ensure that no child is left behind.* If the Department of Education is truly values the mission it has, they should step in and take control of Clayton County schools for two years. Fire the entire Clayton County school board and reorganize the Board of Education for this county. Clayton County is proof that the Superintendent, Governor, Legislature, administrators, teachers (for the percentage of students who failed the exams because they did not know the information), parents (who did not care enough for their child(ren) future), and students (who did not care enough for their own future), the Department of Education and the Board of Education for Clayton County is failing in its mission because without change, they are about to leave over 50,000 students behind.

By posterchild

February 18, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

Jan:

No, the students featured in these recent articles are not representative of the majority of the student body in Clayton. Not trying to be Debbie Downer, but I think my many years of living there, going to school there, working there (in the schools), and being a relative of those who are still working in the schools lends me a tiny amount of knowledge.

Yes, there are some poor students out there who are trying very hard and who have very supportive parents, but there is also a rampant sense of “whatever” running through many of the schools, elementary through high.

And yes, better reporting is needed on this issue. Facts, not emotions.

By GaLiberal

February 18, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

After reading a number of posts here, it’s clear why schools are ‘failing.’ It’s not the schools that failed, it’s all the idiotic ideas that people keep dreaming up to ‘fix’ them. It’s the teachers fault, it’s the lack of discipline, it’s the school board and on and on. The fact is that if you morons would quit interfering with the schools there wouldn’t be a problem.

Of course, the Rethuglicons keep up this myth so they can get people to vote them into office. Then they can pass laws to ‘fix poor performing schools’ with things like vouchers and privatizing education. And if you can’t afford these good schools, well tough.

When you vote Rethuglicon, you vote against your own best interests. And Clayton County schools are living proof.

By Dick

February 18, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

Maybe, just maybe if our electyed officials, (representatives, senators, governor, Kathy Cox and others would (1) stop announcing in advance their visits to schools and schools districts and (2) talk only to people lower tier than administration (this would be from assistant principal down) as the administration is going to tell politicians what politicians want to hear. Talk to the teachers and the parents. Our last three superintendents have been a waste.

By Penguinmom

February 18, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

I agree with Jan. I read both articles and just got a vague sense that the board members had done something wrong. Knowing the board’s past behavior, I’m assuming that means they interfered in the day-to-day running of the schools or tried to influence hiring decisions out side of their authority. That’s just an assumption based on the previous case because the AJC article is not at all clear on the details.

I feel bad for the students and parents involved. However, the board is elected so it does seem like the voters of the county did not do a good job of picking members who have integrity or even common sense.

By jim d

February 18, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

My opinon,

If the Department of Education is truly values the mission it has, they should step in and take control of Clayton County schools for two years. Fire the entire Clayton County school board and reorganize the Board of Education for this county.

That is not their job. Clayton County residents elected this BOE and it is their job to unelect them. That doesn’t fall under the states responsibility. Why have elections on a local matter if the state could arbitarilly throw out the results or fire your elected representation? That is not how this country was founded.

Quit looking for someone else to do the dirty work that residents of the county must do.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

February 18, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

4 Real,

Wake up! Maybe the reason that MACE wouldn’t support GAE member Rod Johnson’s “ethics policy” is that it was being sent to a member of the House who has been illegally double dipping from Clayton County schools!

Yes, Rod Johnson’s wife, GAE member Celeste, has been drawing her full paycheck from Clayton while away at the General Assembly.

And yes 4 Real, it was Rod Johnson, Erika Davis and other GAE members who voter her a HUGE pay raise for a job she didn’t have the academic credential to accept.

Maybe you should stop relying only on the newspaper and start EDUCATING yourself.

By Dick

February 18, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

Ga liberal, you mean you think the dummycrats would do better. To fix education system is simple, go back to teh same system we used in teh early 60’S. dont change a thing, use same system as back then.

By Penguinmom

February 18, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

GALiberal:

It is my understanding that the Clayton school board is mainly, if not entirely Democrats? Clayton is not a Republican stronghold.

By claytonteacher

February 18, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

The CCPS system is under investigation because of the actions of school board members and has nothing to do with the teaching or the students in the system. Listen up “attention clayton parents.” You are not fooling anyone as to your identity. We must stop focusing on the small aspects and our petty differences of this investigation and remember the students and children. It is no longer about singular board members. It is now about our community working as a whole to restore order to chaos and bring the interest of the school system back from individual interests to a collective whole.

By Tony

February 18, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

jim d - there is one recall petition underway in Clayton. I don’t remember which BOE member it is, though.

GaLiberal - I would venture to guess the majority of members of the Clayton BOE are democrats. Perhaps a few conservative minds could help get their house in order.

By Tony

February 18, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Dick - by going back to the 60’s are you implying that segregation is the way to go? Do you think we should focus teaching on white males? Perhaps you are not aware that period represents some of the lowest graduation rates.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

February 18, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

ClaytonTeacher,

So it’s a “small aspect” that GAE member Rod Johnson KNOWINGLY hired an accused child molester? Thank you for being such a staunch advocate for the students you teach!

As for who I am; what a joke! You sound like the poster who said I was John Trotter when I was posting at the exact same time John Trotter was at a function with an entire hotel’s worth of witnesses.

But like a typical MACE basher, resorting to personal attacks because you are too cowardly to address the questions raised in my 11:28 post.

Open challenge Claytonteacher; if MACE is “the problem” then you should have ZERO problem with addressing the questions I raise about the SACS report in my 11:28 post.

Well?

By 4 Real

February 18, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

You’re so upset, Attn: Clayton Parents,that you’re making mistakes. I don’t know what you’re talking about Rod Johnson and his wife Celeste. I’m talking about this document that references legistlation passed by Fulton County’s legislators in 2003. When you so readily lie about something so easily substatiated, what else will you lie about?

Is your thinking that if you just keep repeating and repeating and repeating the same old tired crap that you can convince the readers of its reality? If MACE rants on the Internet and everyone reads it, does that make it sound realistic?

Ugh! There is no hope for Clayton County School children as long as MACE’s despicable politics permeates the Board.

By Tony

February 18, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

jim d - You are basically right in stating it is not the job of the state BOE to take over a school system. However, our state constitution requires the state to provide an adequate education for all. Since the problems in Clayton County have become so desperate, it may be appropriate for the state to consider its options. In any case, I’ll bet that we will all have to pitch in for Clayton’s bailout.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

February 18, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

claytonparents,

Sorry the time was 10:55am. Still the challenge is there. If you are so sure MACE is “the problem” (and not Elgart’s lack of objectivity) you’ll have no problem addressing the questions I raise in my post.

Well, are you willing to put your money where your mouth is?

By Zoe

February 18, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

Tony- the school board member they are trying to recall is Sandra Scott, a woman who had NEVER been to a board meeting until she decided her sorry son needed a football scholarhip, and by golly, she was going to get on the board and get him one. In regards to handing over the game tapes she demanded, that would have assumed her kid actually got PT and he didn’t. The coach couldn’t hand something over that didn’t exist. It isn’t like coaches make tapes for all 70-75 members of the team, just ones that have an actual shot of playing in college.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

February 18, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

Why are people who are so sure that “MACE is the problem” (and not Elgart’s credibility on this “report”) so afraid to address the questions I raise in my 10:55am post?

Is it because then you’d have to admit Elgart’s credibility is under serious question, and that Elgart has misused his position to provide political cover for a GAE power play?

Are you that invested in bashing MACE, that you’re totally afraid to answer legitimate questions?

4 Real,

I addressed your concern about Rod Johnson’s role in the “ethics policy” on the comment section in the Clayton metro section

By dick

February 18, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

Tony Not segragation. Just the fact the teachers control the class room, local school boards run the schools, our state and federal whatevers stay out of local schools business. Don’t make my comment about 60’s being racist. I am just saying when tried it our politicians way, didn’t work, now less go back to what worked. Don’t want to go to school, no problme signlife time affadavit you will not sign up for nor receive any federal or state funds from different programs.

By NICK

February 18, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Once again, it just goes to show that blacks can not run ANYTHING efficiently.

I mean why does this dibacle surprise anyone?

It goes back to Africa…Look at that pathetic nation as a whole. Constantly at war, no education, disease, etc.

Blacks are stupid, lazy, greedy people who would do anything (kill, cheat, steal) for a “buck”.

This problem would have never happened in Forsyth or Cobb counties.

Why is this? Because educated whites who are held accountable for their actions, run the system.

Please do not let Clayton County lose its accreditation. I don’t want these losers and criminals moving any further north.

By NICK

February 18, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

Once again, it just goes to show that blacks can not run ANYTHING efficiently.

I mean why does this dibacle surprise anyone?

It goes back to Africa…Look at that pathetic nation as a whole. Constantly at war, no education, disease, etc.

Blacks are stupid, lazy, greedy people who would do anything (kill, cheat, steal) for a “buck”.

This problem would have never happened in Forsyth or Cobb counties.

Why is this? Because educated whites who are held accountable for their actions, run the system.

Please do not let Clayton County lose its accreditation. I don’t want these losers and criminals moving any further north.

By Moses

February 18, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

This is a classic case of ‘home cooking’. What amazes me is that the electorate put these so-called board members in office. The whole lot of them would not make a patch on a real school board members fanny. If Sonny Perdue and Cathy Cox have any spine at all, they will clean house. There has been very little in-depth coverage by the print and TV news media on this sad situation. The information contained in the SACS report is frightening. How can this level of incompetence go on for so long and the media not blast it to pieces. I thought that the news media was there to expose things like this so that the taxpayers could see these people for the charlatans that they are. Wake up AJC! Wake up Atlanta TV stations! You are failing the very people you claim to serve.

By CW

February 18, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

Bravo to the Georgia Supreme Court for its tax districting ruling. The angry reaction by governments and developers who no longer can divert education funding for their pet development projects is fascinating and instructive. The outcry reveals the extent to which education funds were being siphoned for non-educational uses. Now we better understand the reason our schools have consistently underperformed, the governments and school boards did not have the interests of our children at heart.

This is one more example of the poor leadership of our politicians in the Atlanta SMSA and the State. Let’s look at their fine record of achievement:

It is clear that our politicians lack an interest in serving the welfare of the people of Georgia; they are interested in short term gain personally and politically to the detriment of Georgia’s citizens.

By Doucheatron5000

February 18, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

I don’t think the schools let the kids down in Clayton County.

I think most of the kids in CC are just mouth breathing morons like their parents.

End of story….a very sad story.

By GeezGuys

February 18, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

The electorate of the other 158 counties have managed to elect school boards that didn’t endanger local accreditation. Quit hollering to the AJC, Sonny Perdue, and whoever else you think is to blame. It rests 100% on the fools in Clayton County.

It seems that the BOE is representing their constituency…lazy people who bicker and point fingers at others.

By Matt

February 18, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

Nick, Africa is a continent not a nation. Moron.

By Matt

February 18, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

You elect people in good faith. Hindsight is 20/20. The voters of Clayton County would be idiots of they elected these imbeciles again.
And that, my friends, will not happen.

By Tony

February 18, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

Thanks for clarifying, Dick. Unfortunately, the 60s is already too late for government intrustion into education.

You have proposed one concept that deserves consideration: no public support when you drop out of school. If I may add, schools should not be held accountable when a student’s (and family’s) morals are so lax they reject education. NCLB currently holds schools and districts accountable, rather than parents, when students drop out of school.

The federal government’s intrusion into local educational policy continues unabated. Secretary Spellings has declared that even without reauthorization of NCLB in the way she wants, she will dictate performance standards for schools, even though the Constitution does not provide her with such authority.

Back to Clayton, Attn: Clayton Parents, MACE’s tactics include personal attacks and character assassination. Looking over the web-site reveals a great deal about the organization’s tactics and their unethical approach to bringing about change. It appears a disgruntled teacher is able to make an accusation against an administrator. Then, the administrator is listed by name on that web-site as one who must go. How is that going to improve conditions in Clayton?

Regarding Elgart and SACS/CASI, he has provided sufficient evidence for the recommended action. All board members are equal to blame. None is above the other. Elgart has not brought about the situation in Clayton nor has his colleagues. Blowing smoke around the issues will prevent the people of Clayton County from being able to quickly clean up the mess.

By Joy

February 18, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

Lets not forget The children, most of them are getting ready for the GHST in march, and now they have this MESS over there heads. They really need to focus on that, but how can they?

By Joy

February 18, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

Lets not forget The children, most of them are getting ready for the GHST in march, and now they have this MESS over there heads. They really need to focus on that, but how can they?

By Joy

February 18, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Lets not forget The children, most of them are getting ready for the GHST in march, and now they have this MESS over there heads. They really need to focus on that, but how can they?

By Attn: Clayton Parents

February 18, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

Well, well, well. I gave all the MACE bashers a “put up or shut up” moment with my 10:55 post and not a Tom Petty in the bunch. Because unlike Petty, you ALL BACKED DOWN!.

If you’re so sure MACE is the problem, why can’t you address the questions I raise about Elgart’s “investigation” in my 10:55 post? Is it because you don’t want to admit Elgart compromised SACS’ integrity by giving political cover to GAE in this power play?

Because if you can’t answer the questions I raise in my post, you don’t have much ground to stand on when the “report” is dimissed as a sham and that Clayton should seek alternative accreditation.

Doesn’t mean MACE is perfect, or the system doesn’t have major issues, but if MACE is the problem then “put up or shut up” and address the questions concerning Elgart’s “investigation”.

None of the MACE bashers seem to be up to that challenge as of yet. I’ll check back later to see if any of them have the courage of their convictions and are willing to address Elgart’s (and this “report’s”) credibility and conclusions.

By GeezGuys

February 18, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

The imbecile voters of Clayton County should have gotten a clue a few years ago. This isn’t the first time loss of accreditation has been an issue in their County. Yet they still elected this bunch.

So, Matt, it’s already happened. And who the h3ll elects anyone “in good faith”, except the lazy? Do some research before you vote. This is apparently too much to ask of Clayton County.

Like I said, the BOE is representing their constituency. You now have Imbeciles leading the morons. What’s the surprise?

By MrLiberty

February 18, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

I am often amazed that in this day and age parents would still believe the lie that schools are set up for the purpose of education of the masses.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. In the words of H.L. Menken “That erroneous assumption is to the effect that the aim of public education is to fill the young of the species with knowledge and awaken their intelligence, and so make them fit to discharge the duties of citizenship in an enlightened and independent manner. Nothing could be further from the truth. The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all; it is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe level, to breed and train a standardized citizenry, to put down dissent and originality. That is its aim in the United States, whatever the pretensions of politicians, pedagogues and other such mountebanks, and that is its aim everywhere else.” “The Library” in The American Mercury, Apr 24, p.504

Look around you. Look at yourself. Look at what passes for dialog and discussion of critical political philosophy in this country. Is there any real doubt that the public schools work perfectly to fullfill the requirements of the government that nurtures them???? Who cares about the children?

By momof2

February 18, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

@CW OMG! Amen! Amen! and Amen! again to your comment. I read that article in the Sunday paper about the developers bemoaning that they can no longer come up with funds for frivolous projects under the desguise of “re-development”. Meaning get rich on the taxpayers backs.

If they want the project so badly, then they shoud hold bake sales and sell gift wrapping instead of the schools. Serves them right. And kudos to the judge. I think he earned a place in heaven (whatever his heaven may be!)

By Kym

February 18, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Have schools failed students? No… We as a society as a whole have failed our next generations. I mean look at the comments from teachers on this blog…they blame the parents, they blame the kids, they complain about no lunch, they complain and complain. Enough. If you are that miserable in your choosen profession pick a new one. If you feel teaching is some kind of burden upon your life get a new life. But for goodness sake stop complaining. As a parent I go above and beyond what the “school system says to make sure my son is educated.” That is my job. Your job as teachers are not to raise kids but to provide instruction and hope that the kids parents enhance that at home. I think teachers do more to encourge the whole its us against them(the parents ) than parents or students ever could. Educators you act as if this is a power struggle when it is really a partnership.

By fedup

February 18, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

If any of you has been through a SACS accredidation you know it is just jumping through hoops. It means nothing about the quality of education. You just have to know how to talk the talk. The system just needs to rehearse the board members, teachers, parents and any other staff that will go through the interviews during a SACS visit. I received talking points before a visit to my system. So did every other faculty member. I’m sure the BOE members received their talking points. Everyone knew exactly what to say. This doesn’t mean that the system has great schools. This system also teaches to the test. Are you suprised? Most BOE members don’t really know what goes on in the school. They get invited to special events. They don’t know about the real discipline issues. They only know what the adminstrators what them to know. Clayton evidently didn’t prep their BOE members. This isn’t such a bad thing. SACS exist so some people will have jobs. I don’t put much stock in whether a school is SACS accredited or not.

By aaa

February 18, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

I think the parents and the school system have let the kids down. And please dont move to Dekalb county.

By luvs2teach

February 18, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

Hey Kym - did it ever occur to you that the teachers on this blog are responding to the blog topics - written by a reporter, and not a teacher?

IMO, we’re explaining, not complaining - offering insight and sharing our experiences. Most of you non-teachers haven’t the first clue as to what day inside a school is truly like from a teacher’s perspective - the good, the bad, and the ugly.

When I started teaching, my daughter was in 9th grade and my son was in 5th. I thought I knew what to expect because I had volunteered in their classes. I remain shocked and amazed on a near daily basis at some of the things I see and hear - and i work at a decent school with a wonderful staff and supportive administration.

My general rule of thumb that has served me well is that I try to provide for each child what I would expect a teacher to provide for mine. I don’t want a teacher accepting lame excuses from my son as to why he doesn’t have his work done - yet some parents want exactly that from me. I wouldn’t expect a teacher to stay until 7:00 at night to meet for a conference we could handle on the phone - I’ve had parents make that request. Education is a three legged stool - parents, teachers, and students - weaken one leg and the stool topples over. Students learn to pit their teachers and their parents against each other - meanwhile the heat is off them and their personal responsibilty for their learning.

Kym - I’m glad you go above and beyond for your child - you should!!! I do the same for mine. However, you have got to realize that not everyone does the same. Be honest with yourself I am sure that there are children you do not want your child hanging around because you don’t agree with how their parents are raising them. They may not share your values; they may not share your rules. Those students don’t disappear at the schoolhouse door - they’re sitting next to your kid in class.

In my experience, the parents tend to be the adversarial ones - they tend to be the ones bringing the baggage, for whatever reason. Luckily for me, those encounters tend to be few and far between. The majority of my expereicens as a parent with my children’s teachers and as a teacher with my students’ parents have been very positive. I don’t think I’m the exception to the rule, either.

I have to question the topic of your post however, Kym - if the majority of the Clayton County problem was brought about by the board, and the board was mainly elected by the parents (even those teachers who live in the county are the minority to all the parents who would vote), then how is this siutation the teachers’ fault?

I do agree, though, that society has let the next generation down. We fed them a line of “do what feels good” instead of “do what feels right.”

By MrLiberty

February 18, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

All of you want to “demand more from the schools…demand more from the government”

Just exactly what experience during your lives leads you to believe that you will ever achieve that goal?

What government program works so perfectly that it will respond perfectly to your collective needs and fulfill them beyond your wildest dreams?

Think back to the last time that you were perfectly satisfied by a good or service that you received. Excluding anything received from a loved one or one with similar vested interest, who provided that product or service? Was it the Lexus dealer and Lexus? Was is Apple and their iPhone? Was it Van Halen and their concert? Was it the Pink Pony and their dancers? Was it the VA and their medical care (yes, sarcasm)? Was it just a fast courteous checkout at Kroger?

And if you weren’t satisfied by good service, fair prices, and a good product, what did you do? Did you complain to the manager? Did you get your money back (pretty certain you did, unless it was Van Halen or the Pink Pony)? Did you take your money and then go somewhere else? Did you find that there were plenty of options available to you elsewhere? Did you maybe even find that there were alternatives to the product you originally wanted - products with money back guarantees, cutting edge innovations, and more?

What is so special about education? George Washinton only went to school for 2 years. He taught himself how to read and write and basic math and then following 2 years of schooling got a job as a surveyor that would pay over $100,000 in today’s devalued dollars. He was even his own architect at Mount Vernon. Reading writing and math can easily be taught by anyone, yet our schools fail miserably with professionals at the helm. Why do we entrust something as basic, but as critical as education to a group that cannot satisfy us with any other task they undertake?

Our greatest satisfaction comes from the services provided by the free market. That free market even delivers services free of charge through charities, low cost, high quality services and products through companies like WalMart, low cost prescription drugs, superior products through companies like Rolls Royce, Cartier, Rolex, and the like. And yet nobody is without the knowledge of time, just because we must buy our own watch and a Rolex is out of price range.

Instead of spewing out the same old tired “but who will take care of the poor?”, ask yourself why you are so aftraid to find out that there is someone out there just waiting to take care of you and your children as the special customers you are instead of like the pain in the butt who always speeks up and makes waves. Why should you buy a house and then get drawn into a horrible school boundary? Why should your child get separated from their long-time friends just because the district’s lawyers think there are too many kids your child’s color? Where are your rights, and where are theirs?

The government will never treat you like a customer. They don’ t have to. They have already taken you money in property taxes and you can’t get it back.

There is no reason why tens of thousands of school-type facilities couldn’t be open within a year of any announcement that eveyone was going ot get to keep all their property tax monies. Independant certification would mean far more than these stupid government accreditation boards, and higher education folks might actually have to open up their eyes and see for themselves what kind of kid they are actually admitting, rather than rely on some government endorcement of their school.

Every business you know (except those that get special favors from the government) has to please its customers, deliver a good product and make everybody happy or they fail. Government schools have none of those requirements. They can fail, fail, fail, fail, and fail again and always use the excuse of not enough teachers, or not enough money. We would all starve if we had to rely on the government for food distribution as the Soviets once did. Surely education can’t be as important as food, yet why do we entrust it to the government.

Take it back folks. There are plenty of people in your community that want an end to the government schools. They run for office occasionally. You need to help them win. It is the only way the system will be restored to freedom and competence. In the mean time, don’t continue to make your child suffer your poor choice. Get them out of the school they are in, put them in a private school, or homeschool them. Look up Homeschooling Resources on the web and you will quickly discover that every question you have has already been answered.

No more whining. They are succeeding at their goals and have no reason to change.

By luvs2teach

February 18, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

Mr. Liberty - I’m an oxymoron - I am a public school teacher who would love to see school taxes eliminated and all schools privatized - why do I work at a public school? Because like Willie Horton said, “That’s where the money is.”

I don’t think you’ll see any rush on homeschooling or privatization anytime on the near future. Total privatization scares too many people - some are worried about the cost; some are worried about the quality; and some are worried about their kids getting kicked out of every school they’re enrolled in (private school means choice for the schools as well, lol).

Homeschooling presents its own set of issues. Some parents don’t want to spend that kind of time with their children. Some can’t. Many families require both incomes (for many, it’s not just for those extra material goods - some yes, but not all). Many families are headed by single parents. These are barriers.

Perhaps we will someday see more families who would like to homeschool share the costs of a teacher for a small group of kids - sounds suspiciously like how schools were done over 100 years ago in the developing mid-west.

Perhaps technology will open up new avenues for the self-motivated (Jeff’s online school idea, for example - without the Big Brother Government intervention part).

Until then, I’ll keep doing my job to the best of my ability socking away my retirement funds until I can sell everything and move to Costa Rica.

By JD

February 18, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

I am not sure why people are so upset. The good people of Clayton voted or did not vote and have what they have. This is of course harmful to students in the short term, but extremely helpful in the long term. When you vote or do not vote there are consequences.

By luvs2teach

February 18, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

Willie Sutton - d’oh!

By sue the board

February 18, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

Thankfully, I don’t live in Clayton County. If I ever had, I would have moved years ago when the problems started. I say that the parents should sue each member of the BOE personally. They are not protected under their work since their failures are due to personal and intential corupt activities. They would not be covered under their insurance policies since they failed to act within the proper duties of thier jobs. If they don’t go to jail as well, they should lose their homes, all ability to make money, and destroy their reputations (if not already). All Attn: Clayton Parents can do is try to deflect the accusations to one person. In doing so, he wants to through out the entire report. This is a weak response from a failure. He probably is not even qualified to be on the board (this problem is the result of ignorant parents voting them in the first place).

Nick (above) is a jerk for his blanket accuations regarding blacks and Africa, but in specific cases it is true. Every country in Africa is failure (I actually lived in Kenya when I was younger so I have some perspective). Several areas with black leadership in USA have similar problems - see New Orleans during Katrina. Nagin wanted to blame everyone, when he should have looked in the mirror. The primary problem there was the people, and then the mayor.

When people elect people just because they are black is not doing the correct thing. Elect black people for anything, as long as they can do the job. There are so many talented black people in the country, but the people seem to hire the idiots…which tends to continue some of the stupid stereotypes that persist in america.

But, back to my original thought…sue the board. Lets put it all out in the public record and see how bright “Attn: Clayton Parents” is. I suspect that he/she will turn out to be the most offensive member of the board.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

February 18, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

sue the board,

I would have to be ON the board to be the “most offensive” member now wouldn’t I? You remind me of the poster who said I was John Trotter when I posted at the exact same time Dr. Trotter was in a conference room with 100 witnesses.

And of course I’m haven’t been on the school board. I’ve been too busy filming opposing team’s practices for Bill Belichick and the Patroits.

Or maybe I was getting HGH for for Barry Bonds and Roger Clemons. I keep such busy schedule you know:)

By Larry

February 18, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

What choices do you have? Let’s see, knowing what’s going on and voting, maybe.

Plainly Spoken hit the nail on the head at the top of this forum. You need only read through the posts to see the actual problem.

By Rachel

February 18, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

When a school system lets you down it is a result of: parents, government (be it the BOE, principals, and/or county commissioners).

I relocated here from South Florida, and there were awful schools there. Many of the problems stem from white flight, illegal immigrants (haitians, cubans and etc.). What the County and BOE decided was to partner together turn poor performing schools into magnet schools to attract high performing students and their parents with money; as well limit growth unless the area could support the schools and roads (now that’s another blog we need to discuss).

Also, they worked to increase parental involvement through school programs which may include providing dinner, babysitting, etc.

This blog was created because of what is occuring in Clayton County. What is and happening there is the area is being overrun with low-income individuals who lack the parenting skills to teach their children right from wrong. Immigrants who don’t speak english. An awful local government base. The School Board, Sheriff Department and Board of County Commissioners are ran by individuals with very little qualifications and PERSONAL agendas. And lastly, a poor economical base, have you ever seen so many pawn shops, nail shops, tanning and massage palors for a county with very few vain individuals.

By Rachel

February 18, 2008 8:22 PM | Link to this

It’s funny to say but voting got the people of Clayton into this mess. Most went around voting for their current leaders because they are black. Many were to uneducated to study and read up on their records or find out what the history behind them i.e, Eldrin Bell. Instead they saw these billboards around town with black people on them and said “that’s who I’m voting for”.

My boss and I both relocated here from other areas. We both moved into Clayton County because of the location to our job. We both have high performing children. In 2005, we both saw the declining problems of Clayton County. I sold my house at a lost and moved to Henry County. He stayed and hoped for the best. After watching his daughter struggle to receive quality teaching he has decided to sale his house and move to Douglas County. I told him the other day good luck he should have gotten out when he could.

By Megan

February 18, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

I haven’t read each comment carefully, but I have been surprised throughout these stories of the troubles of Clayton County schools… why is no one concerned for the parents who cannot afford to relocate?? Will the federal (or state, for that matter) government be providing vouchers for ALL of the Clayton students to attend private schools? Will they provide buses to bring the kids to schools in another county? Yeah, great for the kids whose parents can afford to get them to an accredited school.

But clearly, someone has to stay behind to populate the schools while the board and the government work to redeem themselves and become re-accredited. THOSE students are the ones who are going to suffer in the long run- the ones who didn’t have a choice to get out. What about the kids who are going to graduate high school and not be able to get into private schools because they went to a non-accredited school. No matter how good your SAT, universities will be hesitant to accept transcripts from that school. They’ll be able to get into local and state technical colleges, maybe even some schools in the state university system who will understand. But how will they pay for it? These kids won’t be getting HOPE, because part of the requirement is a 3.0 at an accredited school.

How dare you try to tell THOSE kids that it is their fault, their responsibility, for their educational downfall.

By thomas

February 18, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this

Many people don’t know the real story behind the “accreditation” troubles in Clayton.

Back in 2003, Clayton had the same troubles. At that time and this one, SACS came out of the woodwork because some board members started “rocking the boat.” Each time you had board members who were associated with the Metro Association of Classroom Educators (MACE) and Dr. John Trotter. This is a man who fights for the rights of teachers. He often does it in an abrasive manner, but he is a fighter. He rocks the boat.

You see, even in Clayton, a majority black district, the powers that be don’t like change. They don’t like boat rockers. They don’t like it when they see a man listening to and standing up for teachers and students. The only board member who was around the last time Clayton had “accreditation troubles” was Ericka Davis. This woman is a pure stooge. She is in bed with SACS and the establishment. She is their woman. So when Norresse Haynes and some others wouldn’t play by her rules and wouldn’t play the game, she and Rod Johnson ran to SACS. Why? Because they knew that Mark Elgart would run to the rescue to character assassinate Norresse Haynes and any other enemies on the board they had. He had done it before. That’s what SACS exists for- to intimidate and destroy schools, school systems, and colleges that don’t “play by the rules.”

Lesson for today boys and girls- America doesn’t like people who aren’t “with the program.”

These SACS people, Ericka Davis, Rod Johnson, and the rest of them could care less about the children and people of Clayton County. It’s all about themselves. But I guess that’s the American way. Everything is always about me. Sickening.

By MrLiberty

February 18, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this

You all want to blame everything and everyone else except the system itself. Why is that? Yes, you were government school educated, but most people will admit that things were a bit better years ago. And so what? What do they owe you?

Look at the system you so heartedly endorse and see if you can’t identify why things are so wrong with it.

First, it is funded by arbitrarily stealing money from property owners based on the value of their property, not whether or not they have children, how many they have, etc. So in other words, “from each according to his ability.” Straight from the Communist Manifesto. Yes, stealing the money because there is no way to not pay. They will sieze your property and sell it at a tax sale, etc. Failure or not, the money comes in.

Then the teachers. Studies have repeatedly shown that students seeking teaching credentials or majoring in education score among the lowest of all groups on GRE and other standardized tests. This goes even back to the SAT and PSAT tests. The only folks who consistently score worse are those going into government service jobs.

Now the unions. GA may not have them, but they are everywhere else, they get the teachers together and make them a quite intimidated voting block. I don’t get to vote on my boss, or my salary, but this wonderful system embraces the idea.

Then we have the school board. Nobody but a ladder climbing politicial really wants these jobs. They are boring in and of themselves, but serve nicely as stepping stones for future power grabs.

Then the regulations. You applaud No Child Left Behind, but it represents only the tip of the iceberg of federal regulations that strangle the local school systems. When the useless republicans promised to get rid of the DOE back in Reagans time and in 1994 it was the best idea they had. Nearly 99% of all regulations come from federal bureaucrats and only 6% of funding. Your useless legislature doesn’t have the spine to kick the feds out of the classroom because they are too addicted to the federal money flow and wouldn’t know how to cut spending if their lives depended on it.

Let’s just stop there.

In the free market you hire the best and the brightest. You decide who your customer base will be and you target your offerings to them. They could just as easily be the degenerates that nobody wants (maybe that was you as a kid) as the well-to-do with nice clothes and fancy cars. You tailor your message and your product. You treat your customers as the most important people in the world. You fire the worthless help, and you deliver a product that pleases your customers. If you don’t, they take their money and leave.

Oh, Clayton County folks. Good luck with that money thing. And frankly, you were all only paying a pittance anyway relative to the costs. Your childless neighbors were picking up the slack. Thank them on the way out in the morning. After all, it was your decision to have children, not theirs.

By thomas

February 18, 2008 10:50 PM | Link to this

On the brighter side of things:

1) If you are looking for a cheap house, Clayton is the place to be!!! They already had some of the lowest home values in the metro area. Now the prices will get even lower. Add to the fact that so many of those people down there were barely working AND the fact that many of the poor saps bought homes with jacked up mortages (80/20s, interest only, ARMs, higher rates), you’ve got TONS and TONS and TONS of foreclosures.

Clayco- A REAL buyers market.

2) If you need a teaching job- again Clayco is the place to go. For years, starting in the late 90’s, you had globs of teachers leaving that place- all leaving for the same reason mainly. That made it a paradise for any teacher fresh out of college or out of state who was looking for a job. Teach your two or three years, like I did, and move on. Now I think we are going to see another round of teachers running from Clayton. Who needs a job?

By delores managan

February 18, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

I can not understand why no one has come to the conclusion, it is not the school system,district nor students, it is simply the tests. When there are nonsense vs useless tests being administered because too much worthless material is being pushed in front of smart students the plan is non-productive. We are not a society of fools, if someone should come up with the know how of not only to teach what is needed but in a very simple manner parents would not need to transfer their children on a continously path of failure.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

February 18, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

Re: “…Dr. John Trotter. This is a man who fights for the rights of teachers. He often does it in an abrasive manner, but he is a fighter.” A Brillo Pad should be so abrasive LOL. But hey, you want to make an omelet, you gotta break some eggs

And we sorely need a “menu upgrade” from what the GAE dominated board has given us. (Yes the school board is GAE dominated. MACE bashers, Elgart chief among them, don’t want you to know that.) With that in mind, look where Dr. Trotter (more importantly Norreese Haynes) stands on the issues. You cannot discount the role the lack of support for discipline plays in Clayton schools today (not with 3,000+ documented fights)

How can a teacher teach when a child can say “F-ck you b-tch!” and the teacher gets written up?! Reality check: This does happen in Clayton county schools!!! And it’s happening with a school board made up of a majority of GAE members GAE members who can’t fully support teachers in matters of discipline because administrators (who run GAE) will do anything (including harrass teachers who speak up) to keep the discipline numbers “artifically low”.

Even with this pressure to keep the numbers “artifically low” you STILL have 3,000+ documented fights? Fundamentally flawed is right; not because of MACE, but despite Haynes’ best efforts to restore discipline with policy (not rhetoric, policy) such as the Teachers Bill of Rights.

That’s the kind of dynamic Norreese Haynes is trying to change; that and the corruption. THAT is why there’s a “blood feud” between Johnson and Haynes and Johnson called SACS. Haynes took THOUSANDS of dollars in ill gotten gains from Johnson by exposing the accused child molester hire (which cost Johnson his job with the Sheriff’s Dept.) and the illegal double dipping.

Again, these things are happening on a GAE dominated school board something that Elgart, Davis and Johnson don’t want you to know.

Don’t just rely on the newspaper. Read between the lines. Do your homework. EDUCATE yourself. Make informed decisions.

By Lee

February 18, 2008 11:37 PM | Link to this

Here’s the problem. The local boards of education are the closest thing that taxpayers have to accountability in public education. The state and federal DOE’s are so far removed from the taxpayer that accountability is nonexistant.

But my local board member, that’s another matter. He lives down the road from me. I see him in the grocery store. I can call him or go by his place of business. He is accessible.

Every so often, a local school board will get enough members elected who dare to question the status quo. They start asking the hard questions. They don’t take the directives from the state and federal DOE’s lying down.

The power’s that be (DOE’s, et al) do not like it when that happens. Next step is to sic SACS on them. SACS swoops down and places the district on probation and publicizes how that will affect the students ability to get into college, receive HOPE, transfer to other schools, etc, etc. Parents go into a frenzy and either browbeat the board into submission or vote them out of office.

SACS comes back in, removes the probationary status, rewards the rubberstamping board with some “Board of Distinction” nonsense, and everybody is happy.

Especially the educrates down by the state capital…

BTW, that is not what happened at Clayton. What happened at Clayton is that the demographics went from 72% white in 1990 to 30% white in 2006.

By RespParent

February 19, 2008 7:46 AM | Link to this

First off, you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. Yes, in some ways the school is failing students -the tiny few who have parents who are really involved in their children’s academic careers and the kids who are really making an effort. However, a great majority of the kids and parents in systems like Clayton County want the schools to be some huge fix-all and babysitting service. They’re supposed to take horribly behaved children whose parents have done nothing to prepare them in any way for school behaviourally or academically, and churn out perfect, scholarship-receiving grads! It doesn’t work that way. If parents want to elect crappy school board members and blow off school meetings, board meetings and actions against sorry school officials and teachers, then they’re going to get crap. If you want your kid to turn out well, then you need to invest some time in that child from birth until adulthood. Working two jobs so the kids can have $200 shoes isn’t investing time in your child! Why are there some really great public school districts? Well, certainly they all have their problems, but overall the good districts are populated with people who stay on top of their kids and their schools and demand change if something isn’t going well. Usually these are in more affluent areas because -shockingly -the parents got a decent education, worked hard and have succeeded just like they expect their children to do. Here’s a big hint -YOU HAVE TO WORK FOR ANYTHING WORTH ANYTHING!!!!! That means good kids, good schools, and a good life. Get yourselves informed Clayton County -quit waiting on everyone from the government to your kid’s teachers to do your jobs for you.

By jim d

February 19, 2008 8:07 AM | Link to this

Damn,

Only ones not blamed yet on this blog for the failure of the system, so far, is white students. Other than that this one is the same-ol,same-ol.

Until we realize and face the fact that we all have a hand in this type of thing, schools will fail to educate—systems will continue to go under and the state and federal government will continue to sacrifice our kids to a huge power grab.

Responsible and responsive government requires concerned citizens to become involved. Sure it’s a nasty-thankless job. But rather than setting on the sidelines complaining—get yourself in the game and make some changes.

It is that simple folks.

By Vince

February 19, 2008 8:43 AM | Link to this

Jim D…. But nothing in the SACS report indicates that the kids aren’t getting an education or that the schools aren’t doing their job to educate…..only that the BOE is acting inappropriately.

For a long while, Clayton County has been held captive by an “outside group.” The group appears to not care about the students of the county. It appears to have an odd vendetta against the system and vows to “protect teachers” as its mission. The fact that the citizens of Clayton elected some of these buffoons to the BOE is puzzling.

There are pictures available on the internet that show a Clayton BOE member in picket lines at both Clayton schools and other metro area schools demanding the removal of principals. That sems wholly inappropriate.

By j

February 19, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this

Come on cc,

In 3 days you cannot even get 100 valid signatures to start a recall vote? Get a grip, get off of your butts and do something, anything, other than whine and blame someone else for your mistakes.

By jim d

February 19, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this

Vince,

Perhaps the kids are being educated, but that will cease upon graduation for many that had aspirations of continuing their education. This falls directly on the lap of an elected board. All I’m saying is that the citizens of Clayton County need to quit whinning and get involved.

Laura,

You’ve historically been pretty good at searching out the “feel good stories” about students excelling and teachers that have gone beyond the call of duty. How about throwing one of those out for a blog topic? All this whining about teachers not having a duty free lunch, not being respected and parents complaining about who they elected is really getting old.

By Vince

February 19, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

Jim D… I agree with you whole-heartedly! That may be a first! The folks of Clayton have to fix it because they allowed it to happen.

By The fix is Goin Down

February 24, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this

Watch for this backroom deal any day now. Under procedure a vacated Board seat may be re-appointed by a simple majority of the vote of the Board ( a simple manuever under parlamentary Procedure). Under this scenario, Rod Johnson would resign and the Board would move to fill that seat with Pulliam or her neice, all outside of the voters will. the re-appoint would be effective until the seat came up for a vote in a normal election cycle. In the meantime, the damage would be done as that individual would have full Board (and voting issues) not as an elected representative of the people but as a stooge for a corrupt Board.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Rod johnson announced his resignation under the auspicies of allowing him to focus on his campaign to be elected to the Office of Clerk of Courts. Also be alert to Rod Johnson approaching other Clayton County Politico’s in want of a cronyism appointment to another position within Clayton County Government.

By Sandra

March 2, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this

I have had several problems with a school that my fourteen year old son is attending. I have sat in on meetings and actively participated in my sons education but have been given the run around on what has really been going on from his attendence to his academic files. His principle is very rude and aggressive and from what I’ve also observed is very unscrupulous. His teachers are not trust worthy and have plotted against him in everyway imaginable. My son went from a squeaky clean discipline record to a page long referral list and each time I wasn’t contacted on anything that was said or decided. An entire year has gone by and no IEP’s have been set for my son. He has had nose bleeds, headaches and abdominal cramps from what I presume to be stress. Suddenly my son is failing every class and his teachers are appearing before me in meetings speaking of him having emotional problems and such that aren’t true on any level.