Get Schooled

By gwinnett educator (formerly dekalb)

February 15, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

Elementary teacher here and I want to know what exactly is 30 mins of undisturbed lunch??? I may not have duty, but I know it isn’t undisturbed. I broke away from what was expected because we are “supposed” to eat as a grade level in a certain area. (sigh)

I am not antisocial and I absolutely ADORE my colleagues, however, I do not wish to constantly be around people all day long..I NEED A BREAK!

(if you take away the time that it takes to get your class in the line, grab your food and warm it up..I am doing good to have 10-15 mins to eat).

By posterchild

February 15, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

Our lunch period (middle school) is from 11:05-11:30. Technically, that’s not even half an hour. By the time we walk the kids down the cafeteria and get settled in, we have about 15-20 minutes to eat before it’s time to round them up to leave. We have to sit at these little round tables in the middle of the cafeteria. I had more “freedom” as an elementary school teacher.

By gwinnett educator(formerly dekalb)

February 15, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

Ooops, I almost forgot to take away a few more mins for the time used in running to the restroom.

So now, I may get around 10 mins to swallow my lunch, run and grab the students, and then head to recess. (where I normally finish eating my lunch)

By Janine

February 15, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

That bill is useless unless it specifies: [1] that 30 minutes = 30 minutes, to begin AFTER their students have been walked to the cafeteria if that is required. Or, better still, someone else ….parapros, administrators, etc. will come to walk the students to the cafeteria.[2] that teachers cannot be required to eat in the cafeteria with the students but may spend that 30 minutes whereever they choose…a place where they will actually be uninterrupted, [3]that some way is put in place to ensure that the word and spirit of that bill is being followed.

By Janine

February 15, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

Does anyone remember when there was a room set in the cafeteria aside as the Teacher’s Dining Room? In ours there was a side table with tea, water, coffee, and most days a special treat from the lunchroom ladies.

By jim d

February 15, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

It is certainly a sad state of affairs when legislation is required authorizing a teachers lunch.

Oh yeah, nearly forgot teachers in Ga. don’t have a union —(or any balls for that matter)

By Janine

February 15, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

Jimd! Right you are. We always discuss what wimps we are. However, teachers aren’t the only employees that fear repercussions/retaliation if they “rock the boat”. ANd that is a legitimate concern for teachers who cannot afford to just quit and lose the income,insurance, etc. In my county, not only have teachers who complain and/or taken on issues been assigned the worse duties,been the butt of snide remarks in faculty meetings, etc. but if the Big Ol’ county office or its so called ‘consultants’ are involved, transfers to quite undesirable locations have even been used….to say nothing of promotions that never come.

By catlady

February 15, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

30 minutes would be very nice. No one I know at the elementary level gets that, unless they are a “special favorite”.

Also,how about equalizing planning time? High school gets nearly 2 hours, middle school an hour and a half, elementary school 35 minutes. For the same pay. And elementary teachers have more “preps” to do. Also, if we have mandatory duty outside the assigned time for all teachers to be at school, we should be paid for it (as though we are coaches).

By DB

February 15, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

Janine, I remember that separate room for the teachers — with a door that stayed FIRMLY closed! — it had a table at the end of the room with a tea dispenser and usually a tray of goodies that was the envy of every kid who dared to peek in the room to see what the teachers were getting that day. I think I remember that all the teachers had to take turns serving one lunch period on duty, but with 30-45 teachers, that averaged out to once every couple of months or so, which wasn’t onerous.

Of course, I think the kids were a lot better behaved back then. I was shocked to see the condition of a local public high school’s cafeteria after lunch one day, when I was there for a meeting. Omigod …

By teach1

February 15, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

First grade teacher here. No uninterrupted lunch. First week of school we are required to sit with the class the entire lunch. I agree with the “prep” time thing. We have a 8 day rotation and only 4 of those days are “specials” and each of those specials are just 40 minutes IF the special teacher opens her door on time. On top of that we have to plan for all academic subjects every day. We can not repeat or vary a lesson depending on the class like middle school or HS. So any regular time away from students is always well spent, I assure you.

By C.R.H.

February 15, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

High school teachers do not get “nearly 2 hours” of planning time. If the school has a block schedule they get about 90 minutes, even schools on 7 period days with 2 planning periods comes out to about 1 1/2 hours. Many of those planning periods are taken away to proctor tests (PSAT, PLAN, GHSGT) or sit in useless meetings. I would like to know which other occupations expect their employees to work through their lunch? There have been lawsuits against businesses that do such things (and Walmart lost a BIG one!).

By Jeff

February 15, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

catlady:

Teaching the Law of Cosines is a LOT more difficult than teaching 2 + 2 = 4…

By Janine

February 15, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

UH-h-h-h Jeff, don’t go there!!!!

By Joy in Teaching

February 15, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

We have a revolving schedule at our school so this week I’ve been taking 7th graders to lunch.

By the time I get them down there, stand there monitoring their behavior in line because they can’t keep their hands off each other, and escort them to their assigned table, I’ve had about 10 minutes to get my lunch, heat it up, eat, and possible go to the restroom.

Technically, all teachers are supposed to do this according to numerous emails we have received from the administration…but we all know that there are teachers who do not do as they are supposed to. I end up watching other teacher’s students because they are already sitting, eating, and chatting. The administration is supposed to be in the cafeteria, but seldom are because they are in county meetings. The guidance staff are supposed to be in the cafeteria, but no one has yet figured out what they are off doing. No one is spoken to individually by the admininstration. And when the lunchroom is in complete and total chaos, another mass email will be sent out.

Jim D…you are so right. We teachers in Georgia do not have any balls. Most of us need our jobs during this time of recession because our spouses have jobs that have either been downsized or worse. When we speak up about people either doing a sorry job or NOT doing their job at all, we are labeled by the administration as being “difficult.”

If I didn’t care about my students so darned much, I’d leave teaching altogether in spite of the 20 years I’ve put in because I’m purely disgusted at how school administrators can basically become all powerful while allowing teachers under their watch to become more demoralized and disenchanted by the day.

But, I do love my students. On those too few days when I see students start to see the value of what I teach, it makes all the rest of the garbage that I put up with almost worth it.

By V for Vendetta

February 15, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

lol Jim D

He’s right, though. Don’t they have anything better to do? Of course I would like a longer lunch, who wouldn’t? I believe most professionals get AN HOUR. But whatever, we get summers off, so I guess that makes up for everything else, right?

By Tony

February 15, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

OK. I guess I’ll be “that” part of the horse for this discussion. I oppose this legislation in its current form for several reasons. First is that local boards of education should have sole authority over this matter.

Second, students have to be supervised during the lunch period. Someone on staff must provide that supervision and it must be adequate to ensure safety and orderly operation. There is no provision in the bill to provide funds for schools to hire the necessary employees to supervise school cafeterias.

Third, I know many of you expect the administration to provide the necessary supervision. We could declare that teachers cannot have discipline matters sent to us during lunch, parents cannot call during lunch, and all other business cannot be handled during lunch to allow us to be in the cafeteria the whole lunch period.

This bill translates as another unfunded mandate from the politicians who want to show they did something nice for teachers. Well, I say that if you would like to show us that you appreciate what we do then stop passing assinine laws the limit our decisions. Allow schools to determine how students will go to lunch and who will supervise them without placing artificial barriers in our way. True professionals work together to set their own path. Good schools will have teachers in the decision-making process and the results will be good.

By jim d

February 15, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

I really do hate that our legislature has nothing better to do than screw with education. Can we send them home early this year?

IE2 Partnership looks like will soon become the states equivalent to NCLB. Looks like it may well become another voluntary program with money witheld for not volunteering.

By Janine

February 15, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

Tony Re:True professionals work together to set their own path. Good schools will have teachers in the decision-making process and the results will be good.

What a great idea!!However, in my experience [32 years ]teachers are not included in ANY decision making process, the most important of which is NOT cafeterai duty and are NOT treated as professionals. Curriculum, methods, materials, procedures are all dictated….sometimes even lessons are scripted to the last comma and period. And YES, as I said in my earlier post in response to Jimd, we are WIMPS….but, as I and others have pointed out, there are explanations for the lack of cahones!!

By jim d

February 15, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

Janine,

How true.

I’ve advised my child to find a teacher to marry when he decides to settle down, since they are by nature the most submissive group I know of.

By Jeff

February 15, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

jim:

Let me introduce you to T!

Plus, ya gotta remember: I used to be a teacher. And I’ve been known to DESTROY things rather than submit to them…

By V for Vendetta

February 15, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

lol Jim D, That one had me laughing out loud. Jeff makes a point, not all teachers are submissive, but lord knows the vast majority will roll over at the slightest provocation. Which, in turn, makes those of who won’t look even worse. (If, by worse, you mean unsubmissive.)

Sigh.

It’s a vicious cycle. Maybe when someone somewhere finally puts his or her foot down, and the media makes them into a martyr (because he/she will surely loose his/her job in some sort of unfair manner), only then will we begin to grow some danglies.

Until then … I’ll continue to subvert the establishment the only way I know how: furtively.

By luvs2teach

February 15, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

If middle school parents really want to get up in arms, then they should realize that their kids are only getting 20 - 25 minutes to eat as well.

How can that be healthy for anyone?

From what I understand - and mind you, I am only talking middle school - we teachers got a 2 period (not HOUR) planning time in lieu of duty-free lunch…so we eat with the kids.

Now, both schools at which I taught, that time is not all your own. We typically have one day blocked for administrative meetings and staff training, another to meet with your subject area, and another to meet with the academic team (often used for conferences with parents). I wish I had the entire two period block - I might not be staying ‘til 6:30 every night (new 8th grade curriculum is killing me). Additionally, as 8th grade is a major testing year, we have lots of pre- and post-test training.

Let’s not get into a “my grade level has it worse contest” - there are pluses and minuses to each level of school. An elementary teacher may have more preps, but middle and high have more students.

And Jeff - as an adult, the Law of Consines seems more difficult than 2 +2 = 4, but to someone encountering either for the first time, it’s still new knowledge. You couldn’t pay me enough to teach elementary, as I’ve said before. A good elementary teacher is worth his or her weight in gold.

And I’ve been lucky that my two kids each had SEVERAL!

By jim d

February 15, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

“And I’ve been known to DESTROY things rather than submit to them… “

SO, Uhm Jeff, WHAT are you doing now for a living?

By jim d

February 15, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

Yeah V,

I guess J.T. Gatto must have some huge fuzzies. Shame there ain’t more like him, willing to speak to the atrocities of public education.

By Janine

February 15, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Right, V…“furtively”.

I think we all know about that. Close the door and try to do what you know is right for the students,i.e. instead of being on ChapterX,page X on date X, [whether or not they have understood the material in Chapter W] the teacher is “furtively” reinforcing, reviewing, filling in gaps, all the while hoping the an administrator doesn’t open the door unexpectedly to check on you.

By Mom

February 15, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

I agree, teachers do deserve AT LEAST 30 minutes - uninterrupted - to eat their lunch. I don’t even know why this is being discussed or even VOTED on. Why can’t they hire additional lunch staff to help, but, all means, pay your lunch staff a heckuva lot more than they are currently being paid before you expect them to do this. Support staff (custodians, cafeteria workers, secretaries are by far the most underpaid of all school staff and should be looked after before ANYONE else gets a raise.)

By EvilWickedMean&Nasty

February 15, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

Quit whining already.

By Steve

February 15, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

I’m tired of hearing about how tough teachers have it and about how underpaid they are. If you feel you are underpaid get out of the profession. Alot of workers in the country dont get an uninterrupted lunch. Why are teachers so special. Also teachers, stand up to the administrators and principles. Get a backbone. If you loose your job get another one. Problem solved.

By HS Teacher Too

February 15, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

Here was my solution to what I thought to be an unfair “duty” taking my lunch period: I didn’t go.

solution!

What were they going to do, FIRE me?

hah hah

By CP

February 15, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

Ok. I’m not a teacher nor do I work in a school. My “job” is 24/7 being a mother. I have kids in school & at home. So I don’t really ever get an undisturbed 30 min. lunch. Am I complaining or trying to make it sound like I’ve got it worse? No. What I’m saying is that we all have challenges to face whenever it comes to kids of any age.

On the other hand… Yes, I’d support a 30 min. lunchtime that would be uninterrupted by kids. Teachers have a difficult career as it is and should have a break during the day to chill and take a breath. I know I’d rather my kids be with someone who’d had a break than someone who still has to keep rolling along. I know I’m a better mom when I get a break now & then.

As to specifics of the time & who would be responsible for the kids during lunchtime, I don’t know. But maybe rotating teachers for that task would be something to look into.

By Fulton Sub

February 15, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

I sub in North Fulton County elementary schools. Every school I have been in has 30 minutes scheduled for lunch (which means the students are in the cafeteria for 30 minutes). All the teachers have accounted for the extra time it takes to get ready to be in the cafeteria on time — they begin the process 5 minutes before the scheduled lunch time. So, I always have 30 minutes to eat. And boy, do I need it!!

By Dee

February 15, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

I can relate because a cousin of mine who works in highschool has lunch duty a few days a week but what the bill does not say is how long their “block” period break is. It is atleast more than an hour. They can go off campus and shop if they want. Elem. teachers with the supposed 30 minute break. Are they serious? Heck, once you walk them, stand in line to make sure they behave, you use the bathroom there is not time to even eat. At my school the teachers sit with the kids or near the kids and the kids come up all the time asking this and that and the caferia monitors do nothing but rush to get us up exactly on time. Whatever! I wish that I had the break they had or a decent break to have a little piece of mind. The bottom line is if elem school really has a break someone should tell my principal.

By another_teacher_view

February 15, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this

At the middle school I work at, we must walk in the door to the minute of our designated time. Exactly 20 minutes later we better be out of our seats, or the next class hovers over our students. In between monitoring inappropriate behavior, etc…we attempt to wolf down our food. Bon appetite!

There is NO 1.5 hour planning in middle school. It was close to that about 5 years ago, but now we get about an hour and 10 minutes…unless you have an afternoon duty involving buses, and then you have to be outside earlier than that.

Let’s not get into a spitting contest about who has it tougher…each grade level is tough for different reasons.

Is the money bad? Depends. Do you work 80+ hours a week planning and grading? If so, the money stinks. But if you can do your job in 45-50, it’s not too bad. Where else do you get an automatic raise for advanced degrees? However, it would be nice if Georgia joined several other states and offered tuition reimbursement or free tuition for advanced degrees.

By the way, why are the kids so rotten right before a 3 day holiday?? arg!

By Carolina

February 15, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this

Middle school teacher here. It will never happen. Neither will elimination of any of the other extra outside- the- classroom duties we have to do on a regular basis. If I didn’t love my students and the actual calling of teaching so much, I’d be GONE.

By Megan

February 15, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this

Jim D:

Except, teachers in Georgia do have a union. PAGE- Professional Association of Georgia Educators. There’s also the NEA and AFT. Georgia may not be the most active union state but there are teacher unions and they do get stuff done.

By Megan

February 15, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

Also, to add to my above comment, I suspect that this legislation could be getting passed because of PAGE lobbyists.

By cw

February 15, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

from the looks of most of the teacher’s at my son’s school, they spend all summer eating. A reduced amount of food at lunctime will do them good. I do not know who introduced this bill but it is stupid. Nobody that has a real job these days has an uninterrupted lunch period. There is always some sort of work related interruption. Get over it and welcome to the real world.

By Sal

February 15, 2008 8:29 PM | Link to this

I would LOVE 30 minutes for lunch…even if it is interrupted!! Today I ate for 10 minutes (standing up): it was the only break I had in my 12 1/2 hour day.

If I had it to do all over again…I’d be a teacher: not a nurse.

By Janine

February 15, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

MeganRE:teachers in Georgia do have a union. PAGE- Professional Association of Georgia Educators*

I am a member of PAGE, and it is my understanding that PAGE is not a teachers’ union, nor does it claim to be. PAGE does not claim the rights afforded a legal trade union.

By Sandra

February 15, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

I am the school nurse at an elementary school north of Atlanta. At my school the parapros go to luch with the kids, walk them in, help monitor, etc. while the teachers have their lunch. Then after lunch, the monitors get their own lunchtime while the kids are back in class. It seems to work well.

By Tony

February 15, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

Janine - if your day is as scripted as you indicate, you should run as quickly as you can to another school. Now is the time. I hear there is a teacher shortage in Georgia. It sounds like lunch is the least of your concerns.

By Anonymous Administrator

February 15, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

To the elementary school teacher who thinks that s/he “needs” a 90-minute planning period every day like a high school teacher: why don’t you become certified to teach a high school subject and to to work in a high school? Then you can be responsible for presenting lessons to 100+ students per day and taking home the requisite paper-grading load? And coach a high school sport while you’re at it, maybe two. So you won’t get a start on paper-grading in the evening until at least 7 PM, if you don’t have an away game/meet/match that day.

By HS Teacher

February 15, 2008 10:20 PM | Link to this

I used to teach Elem and in the late 70s, I taught in Coweta Co. We had duty free lunch of 30 min each day. Other than that, it was straight through with not even a bathroom break. Thank you administrators back then who valued us.

In 1993, the Legislature passed a law that Elem teachers (K-6 or K-5 as most are today) had 30 minutes duty free lunch. Your 30 min starts when your students are no longer in your care. It ends when 30 min are up—no exceptions. After all, this is STATE LAW.

I see that as the most common State Laws broken in the school setting. Second most common is administrators telling teachers what grade to give a student—another State Law being broken. But unless it is reported, it will continue.

So, contact your GAE Rep and know that your principal will get a letter of reprimand in their file by the Supt.

I have seen it happen when teachers know the law. So, join GAE and find out what other laws and rules there are that you don’t know about. Not a member-shame on you for not belonging to a Professional Organization that advocates for members. WE are the faces on the front line.

I tell every Elem teacher I meet about this law. I am surprised at the number who do not realize this is State Law. Some of the posts above show ignorance of the law.

As a HS teacher, SACS demands that I have a duty free Plan time—and since I don’t, I get extra pay. But we do not have to have a duty free lunch. I see my teacher friends trying to eat lunch standing up while on duty. But, we only get about 24 min plus class change time. Unless you bring your own food, there is not enough time to eat AND go to the bathroom.

By Janine

February 15, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

Right you areHS Teacher, about GAE. I don’t know if this is a yearly thing, but several times I have gotten a little booklets from GAE , one of which was specifically about laws that teachers are often unaware of.

Speaking of which, isn’t there a law about notifying the teacher if she has a student who has acted violently toward a teacher in the past? Also, I think there is one dealing with the teacher’s right to kick a student out of class . It outlines a procedure to be followed if the teacher does not want the student returned to the class but the principal insists. The ultimate decision is to be made by a specified committee. GAE Rocks! But it isn’t a union either! It’s more of an advocacy organization.

By Andrea

February 15, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this

I am a middle school teacher, dont like it, dont want to do it anymore, cant get out, so i sit and eat with bad mannered kids everday for 18 minutes and then as itry to gulp down my tea i gather them up and go back to class. Its a job, it pays the bills, i do my best and i come home and occasionally go back for parent night unpaid ofcourse and training sessions in the evenings and on saturdays unpaid of course.

By Janine

February 15, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this

If nothing else,Andrea, it’s time to try another school or another system…or a private school..or something else altogether. Good luck!

By Attn: Clayton Parents

February 15, 2008 11:53 PM | Link to this

SACS does a 27 page report and not a single mention of Rod Johnson KNOWINGLY hiring an accused, now indicted child molester? That, in and of itself shows that SACS and Elgart have ZERO credibility.

Any chance that Elgart’s private (secret?) meetings with Johnson BEFORE the “investigation” led to a quid pro quo that Elgart would give Johnson political cover?

By Angie

February 16, 2008 12:16 AM | Link to this

None of the so called “unions” in the state of Georgia have bargaining power which would prevent the need for this type of legislation. I have taught in 3 different states and Georgia is the only one where there is no power for the teachers as a group. In TN and IN, we had unions that set certain standards that the administration of the school must follow otherwise there would be a potential legal consequence. For example, we had a mandatory 30 minute duty-free lunch and 60 minute planning period for all grade levels. We were also paid for additionally training that was required outside of the school day (which should be a requirement considering how much training/meetings we have to go to without compensation).

Other employees have unions with bargaining power, why can’t teachers?

By Brad Westlake

February 16, 2008 7:37 AM | Link to this

Here is what I do and… it’s easy. I carry my lunch with me at all times. During the day I munch on my little morsels of goodness - that way I don’t have to worry about a lunch break. It keeps my energy up and it’s free! Can’t beat that. In case you are wondering what I eat? I just pick my nose and eat my boogies.

By marcia jones

February 16, 2008 8:03 AM | Link to this

Is the legislator offering funding? In elementary schools, the administrators cannot abandon the rest of the school, parents and central office while teachers enjoy duty-free lunch. I’m all for duty-free lunch, just put some funding into the bill so that we can hire folk to monitor the cafeterias.

By catlady

February 16, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

actually, A.A., if you are referring to me: I could teach at the high school level. In addition to my bachelor’s and (2) master’s degrees, I have a PhD from a state flagship university. My certifications allow me to teach high school as well as elementary and middle school. I choose to teach elementary age students because they need accomplished teachers, too.

Elementary school teachers need more than their 30 minutes or so because WE ARE REQUIRED TO PLAN LESSONS TOGETHER, JUST LIKE MIDDLE SCHOOL TEAMS (but unlike most high school teachers) YET WE ARE GIVEN NO RELEASED TIME TO DO IT. In addition, we prep for 6-7 subjects a day, frequently with a wide variety of kids from other homerooms.

Our superintendent wants to say we have the half hour after the students start leaving in the afternoon for preparation. In reality, however, that time is called upon for meetings 2-3 days a week, which last well past our end of the day. Many of us also have duties that require our attention every day before school for a half hour (unpaid) or during that half hour “planning” time—then we have to rush to the meetings.

If the school system had to pay elementary teachers for extended day, you can bet there would be changes. Furthermore, if the system would spend $5.15 and hour and hire folks for some of the idiot duties, teachers could be freed to prepare.

Notice that I am not addressing grading papers outside of the school day. That is something we all have to do, and it is an accepted part of our professional responsibilities.

Since the law was passed for elementary students to have duty free lunch, teachers at my school have NEVER had 30 minutes. Never. We are told the kids eat in 15 minutes, so it is “generous” that we have less than 25 (including walking them too and from and waiting till there is someone to watch them in line.) This may be true in middle and high school as well.

And where a high school teacher (on block) might have an average of 15 students per hour (3 classes of 30 times 6 hours, averaged), elementary teachers have an average of more than 20 students per hour. Try grading those papers in your evening.

So A.A., I don’t want to get into a p* contest with you about who has it worse. All teachers need equal treatment for the work they do.

By Tony

February 16, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

Excuse me, Clayton Parents, but there was a specific mention of the hiring of said child molester. It was cited as an example of board members’ interference in the daily operations of the school system, and this board member’s errors are not any worse than the other members who have been cited. Shame on the whole lot of them.

Every board member of Clayton County should resign and allow the public to begin to rebuild their system. The behaviors of board members cited in the report are some of the egregious violations of ethics I have ever read. In my opinion, there is enough evidence for the state board of education and the governor to stage an emergency take-over of the system.

After reading the report, I can’t imagine who in their right mind would want to work for the current board of education in any leadership position. The so-called “advocacy” group has created a poisonous atmosphere within this system that has stolen the right to a quality education from the children of Clayton County.

Duty free lunch is the least of the worries in Clayton County.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

February 16, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

Tony,

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I saw Megan mention it in her report, but I did not see a mention in the PDF file that contained the 27 page SACS report.

And, if I may ask gently, is it possible that as an administrator, you take exception to this group because has been steadfast in pointing out the systemic lack of administrative support for the discipline problems in this state? (Again, let me emphasize the word “systemic” so as not to engage in a personal affront.)

One small example: 3,000+ documented fights in Clayton, which lead the former Supt. Barbara Pulliam to, rather than support teachers in matters of discipline, send a memo to principals to “reduce numbers of reports” to meet No Child Left Behind mandates.

This led to teachers being placed on Professional Development Plans after a teacher made a second referral to the office for a discipline problem…for the year! All the “training” in the world is not going to help a teacher if the student KNOWS the teacher will not be supported!

Are they wrong for wanting to change the “good teaching conditions that MUST be in place for good learning to occur”? Is the example I cited above a “good teaching condition”? I don’t think so, but in Clayton it is a common teaching condition.

Say what you will about their methods (and one can say at times they don’t “play nice with others”) but they have been at the forefront of the 5,000 lbs elephant no one wants to address; the discipline.

Again, to get back to your point: Did Megan mention the child molester allegation, or did SACS (because I didn’t see it in the report, or in the Clayton Daily News summary of the report)

And if SACS didn’t mention something THAT reprehensible, doesn’t that give a major hit to their objectivity in this report?

By Tony

February 16, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

Clayton Parents, I went back to review the details. The reference I recall was in the article posted last night, but the reference is now gone. Your questions about AJC’s reporting practices may have just shown up.

As an administrator, I recognize the need to establish and maintain a strong discipline policy in my school. I do not fault teachers for working to establish recognition of this important foundation of education. Unfortunately, a school board member should not publicly advocate against an employee of the system where the board member serves. If the members of the advocacy group who were on the board truly wanted to establish better discipline practices in the schools they would address that through policy making, building community support, and support of the school system’s leadership. Instead they have used public ridicule and other tactics that inherently bring division and distrust.

In the SACS report, there are many examples given but there seems to be so many instances that the writers had to summarize and list a few examples. The had plenty of evidence that was well documented by video and the written record. I don’t think the omission of one specific incident in any way discredits the SACS report.

All that said, the real losers in this situation are the students of Clayton County. They are the losers because the adults can not establish and maintain constructive dialogue. Without honest and open discussion the problems will not be solved. The current atmosphere within to board seems insurmountable and the public deserves better than that.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

February 16, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

Tony,

I just reread the report. I see no mention of it. If Mark Elgart (head of SACS) is willing to give political cover to a man, Rod Johnson, who KNOWINGLY hired an accused, now indicted, CHILD SEXUAL PREDATOR by not giving a single mention of it in a 27 page report, what does that say about Elgart’s integrity?

And what does it say about Elgart’s integrity that he had private (secret?) meetings with GAE members Rod Johnson and Ericka Davis before the announced “investigation”?

In light of those two facts, is it not legitimate to ask whether or not there was a quid pro quo between GAE members Rod Johnson and Ericka Davis and SACS head Elgart concerning the “investigation”?

In light of the two facts listed above, if this isn’t a legitimate question, I’m open to, for the purposes of legitimate debate on the issue, someone explaining why these are legitimate questions Clayton voters should be asking of Elgart.

When someone like Elgart has the power to yank an entire system’s accreditation, it’s imperative that they are above reproach, and the examples cited above legitimately call that into question.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

February 16, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

Tony,

I will say you seem to have a balanced approach in terms of discipline compared to horrible examples I have witnessed (for example putting a teacher on a Professional Development Plan after the second offfice referral to bully teachers into keeping the administrator’s discipline numbers low)

And normally I would agree with you that one omission doesn’t invalidate an entire report but the omission is so egregious, so reprehensible, and the fact that the board member in question had private (secret?) meetings before the “investigation” makes me call into question the entire investigation?

Still, no doubt the report is troubling. And though I obviously support the MACE message on discipline, those MACE affliated members should be setting an even higher standard that the status quo that Johnson and Davis set, and in some instances they did not. Disappointing.

But honestly I don’t fault Norreese Haynes in this because he and Johnson “can’t get along” Of course they can’t! Haynes EXPOSED Johnson’s hiring of the accused child molester, which cost Johnson his job with the Sheriff’s Dept. Haynes EXPOSED his wife’s (State Rep. Celeste Johnson) illegal double dipping (drawing a Clayton salary while serving in the General Assembly, also not mentioned in the report).

Haynes has costs Johsnon THOUSANDS of dollars in ill gotten gains, so Johnson threw the ENTIRE system under the bus by calling SACS to get back at Haynes.

Was Haynes suppossed to let the hiring of an accused child molester and a teacher’s illegal double dipping just slide, so the board can “get along”?

I realize that this may be more detail than Tony or others are knowledgeable about (or can easily confirm or deny) but I bring these things out because I already see so much focus on the report, that people may need to question those who created the report and make sure they are operating at the same level they claim to want the board to operate on.

By dtruth

February 16, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

All good teachers not only need a real lunch break, but more money, school security, parental involvement and to be recognized for the sacrifices they make. Teachers need all the support they can get from everyone, they hold the future in their hands. Bless them all.

By MrLiberty

February 16, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

Sure, the teachers deserve the free time. God knows they have to play warden for the rest of the day.

But what about the kids? Most I talk to spend as much as 20 minutes in line, only to get 10 minutes to cow the food down. Inadequate chewing of food is the prime cause for stomach problems, digestive problems, and a general lack of ability of the body to absorb nutrients.

Why is it that homeschooled kids never seem to have this kind of problem? Score another one for the homeschoolers (what are they up to now, 20,000,000 to none?

By Lee

February 16, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

Oh, good grief…

Teachers complain about politicians meddling in school affairs and blaming them for much of the mess that is known as public education, and now want them to pass a law that essentially micromanages the school.

Make up your damn minds.

Whether or not a teacher has a “duty free” lunch or is required to monitor students while they eat is a local school decision. As long as the school systems are not violating federal and state labor laws, the state legislators should butt out of this issue.

As others have noted, there are numerous professions that are required to work through lunch. What makes teachers think they are so special that they require a special law?

Teachers, here’s a novel idea. If you don’t like the way your administration is running your school, band together, select a spokesperson and flood the school board meeting with about a hundred or so angry teachers. Most school board members are adverse to controversy and will fold like a wet newspaper in the face of well organized group.

Why do you think atletics gets anything they want? Because the athletic associations will do exactly what I described above, they will attend a board meeting en mass and demand action.

And 9 times out of 10, they will get exactly what they are asking for.

By Annie

February 16, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

Teachers need and deserve a real lunch break in the middle of the day. I speak from experience; teaching is exhausting work, and badly behaved children only make it that much harder. Who wants to spend their “break” supervising rowdy kids? What kind of break is that?

I no longer teach, but given the rise of violence in our schools, has anyone thought about school systems hiring off-duty police, sheriffs’ deputies or security guards to supervise lunch? I dare say they could use the money and kids might show them a little more respect.

Notice I said, “Might.” I know schools are supposedly strapped for cahs, but dang…back when I taught, I’d have paid out of my own pocket to have someone else supervise lunch. It sucked!

By Educator

February 16, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

I always thought it was against labor laws to subject teachers to less than 30 minutes of interrupted lunch. Teachers should be allowed at least 30 minutes of uninterrupted lunch. That means no duty, no parent phone calls, no conference.

By Educator

February 16, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

I always thought it was against labor laws to subject teachers to less than 30 minutes of interrupted lunch. Teachers should be allowed at least 30 minutes of uninterrupted lunch. That means no duty, no parent phone calls, no conference.

By C.R.H.

February 16, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

Still waiting for someone to say what profession or business requires / expects their employees to work through their lunch…

By HS Teacher

February 16, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

After reading a lot of comments, I am not sure the public—parent/s realize how low the schools have sunk. Students do not listen to anyone. Rules are given and we are not allowed to enforce them. I should know; guess where I work!

Teachers are jumped on for writing up “too many” students. One year, I turned in a grand total of 47 discipline forms, got back 3, and found out the rest were shredded; according to an office aide.

Most HS teachers have 32 students per class and teach 5 classes per day. Only Lab classes have 28 students. Several systems asked for an exemption so they could have even more students than the law allowed. DOE granted it—what a shame. What was the use of the Legislature passing the law if it can be over ridden?

There are not many HS in the metro area still on block. But even on block you still have a lot more than 15 students that someone stated. With block, do you realize a teacher does the same work TWICE? Jan was the beginning of a new school year and my teacher friend is doing the same thing he did last Aug.

Duty free lunch is something the Legislature is working on; perhaps because we will get such a small pay raise for 2008 - 2009. Just 2.5%;- it will make a small dent in the increase in health insurance. Do you know that GA needs 15,000 new teachers for next school year? I hope all of you who have complained about how terrible the schools are will jump in there and take up the slack. Clayton Co will need teachers, in addition to BOE members. Come join us~~~

By Janine

February 16, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this

Speaking of GA needing 15,000 teachers for next year,HS Teacher, there was a small article in the AJC about a bill in the House which would allow teachers over 60 yrs.old, who have been retired at least 2 years [it may have been 1 year, not sure], to go back to teaching full time at full pay and continue to receive thier full pension.
Guess Ga really is short of teachers. Everyone can’t home school and/or afford private school, or move to an area where the schools are adequate, so we all better hope for something to attract good teachers to GA. Even if we go back to the original purpose of public education…to ensure that everyone is taught basic Readin’, Writin’, and Rithmetic with no frills.

By jim d

February 16, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT

Y’all spend way too much time with kids.———You sound just like a bunch of whiney a ssed kids.

By Lee

February 16, 2008 7:38 PM | Link to this

Federal Law does not require lunch or meal breaks. There are a few states that do specify meal breaks, but Georgia is not one of them.

But, this talk about “duty free” lunch periods is merely symptomatic of a much larger problem. That is, public schools have lost control of the behavior of students in their care and custody.

By No Whiners

February 16, 2008 8:33 PM | Link to this

Quit whining. YOu work 180 days a year. I don’t get 30 min. duty free for lunch. I eat at my desk and work while I do it. That is why it is called a J-O-B. You get off earlier than an 8.5 hour day so why do you get to work 7 hours and have off for lunch. i am just NOT getting my violin out for teachers on this. ridiculous.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

February 16, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

If Mark Elgart of SACS was conducting an “objective” investigation, why are there reports that Elgart’s own people were concerned (to the point of informing school board members) that fellow board member Ericka Davis was making numerous private visits to Elgart during the course of the investigation?

Wouldn’t it be very inappropriate for Elgart to be recieving repeated, private visits from a woman he was suppossed to be “objectively” investigating?

Is this why there is no specific mention of Davis’ micromanaging in the 27 page report, even though Davis’ micormanaging emails (from her state computer during state time no less) have been posted on the Internet?

One has to wonder if Davis “micromanged” Elgart to omit her actions from his report.

Given this and no mention of Rod Johnson KNOWINGLY hiring an accused child molester, how can we accept this report at face value?

By treva

February 16, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

yes !teachers should have a lunch and really 30 mins isnt nothing , compared to how much they have to deal with daily , not only that but they should have extra time to regroup themslves daily . all parents know that these kids are more than a handful!

By 30YearsIn

February 16, 2008 9:44 PM | Link to this

No Whiners… I arrive at 7:00 AM or earlier, kids begin to arrive at 7:15…kids leave at 2:15. I have meetings, phone calls, papers to grade, etc. until 3:00 (that’s when I MAY leave). If I leave then, I take a couple hours of grading home with me. How does that work out to a 7 hour day? Most days I don’t leave until 4:30 or later. Heck, some days the custodian runs me out at 6:00. Just a reality check on the length of a teaching day in an elementary school. Oh, and we are expected to attend P.T.A. meetings, Science Fair night, Fund raising festivals, and any other P.T.A. sponsored activities after school hours. I love my kids, and I love working with my kids, but I absolutely hate what public education has become in the eyes of the uninformed. Spend one day working in a classroom, any classroom, and you will see what most teachers are up against, and why new teachers are not staying in education. There’s a serious teacher shortage looming, and who will be there for the kids then?

By C.R.H.

February 16, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

As I recall teaching contracts are actually 190 days (sometimes more for new teachers), not 180 days. as far as teachers whining…I agree…it is time to stop whining and start walking. Then when the parents realize that there is no one left to put up with their kids, they will start whining. For those who say teachers should find another line of work, I already did. Be careful what you wish for the next teacher that walks out of a classroom may take your job.

By Jack

February 16, 2008 11:07 PM | Link to this

I am one of those teachers who left also. At least I stayed until the end of the school year. Three teachers quit right after Christmas. Six other teachers and I waited until our contracts were up. Oh, and over 300 teachers retired from one metro system last year.

By chris

February 17, 2008 2:18 AM | Link to this

Our school admin tried to give us lunch duty this year and everyone else was ready to up and roll-over for a good belly rub for being such good sports about it. It took me being “The Arsehole” to keep the other go-along-to-get-along’s from having to waste 80 man-hours each. And that was more of an act of self-preservation than general benevolence towards colleagues.

We’re also supposed to fill out our own professional reviews this year. There are 3 options in each category: needs improvement, satisfactory and excellent (maybe not those exact terms). I am turning mine in checked all needs improvement. To quote myself: “I set high standards for myself that I consistently fail to meet.”

By LARRY

February 17, 2008 6:05 AM | Link to this

Elementary teachers do not get a duty free lunch. This is a myth. Many elementary teachers are required to eat with their students in the cafeteria.

By jim d

February 17, 2008 6:08 AM | Link to this

Thanks Chris,

You have confirmed what I’ve been preaching on these blogs for a long time.

“The power to change teachers working conditions lies entirely with teachers”

Too bad more don’t grasp that fact and understand that schools use “fear” to intimidate teachers into submission, much like a school house bully. Standing up really can make a difference!

By abacus

February 17, 2008 7:05 AM | Link to this

I’ve been told that there is a state law that says teachers can unionize. Does anyone have details? I’d love a union, but every time I mention it my colleagues turn pale and run.

By abacus

February 17, 2008 7:05 AM | Link to this

I’ve been told that there is a state law that says teachers can not unionize. Does anyone have details? I’d love a union, but every time I mention it my colleagues turn pale and run.

By Lee

February 17, 2008 8:08 AM | Link to this

abacus;

§ 20-2-989.10. Collective bargaining not permitted or fostered.

Nothing in this part shall be construed to permit or foster collective bargaining as part of the state rules or local unit of administration policies.

By Lee

February 17, 2008 8:19 AM | Link to this

Chris, re professional reviews, “I am turning mine in checked all needs improvement.”

Be careful doing that. You’ve already admitted to “being the a-hole” and standing up to administration. You now turn in a poor performance appraisal and they can (and often will) use that against you.

By Dick

February 17, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this

TEachers are my heros. Most parents are a*******holes as to teaching respect and manners, controlling, discipling their children. Those parents expect our schools to do their job. My wife is teacher (7th grade) and she averages getting home each day after 6:00 P.M. plus calls at home at night.

By West Metro Teacher

February 17, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this

My thoughts: My lunch period is exactly 20 minutes. We are one of the first ones to have lunch in the building, and our lunch period is supposed to begin about 3 minutes after the bell rings.

In order for my students to get the full 20 or so minutes, we have an unwritten rule that they are to put their things down in the classroom and meet me in front of the cafeteria before the bell rings. I explained to them that I’m doing this so we all can get a few extra minutes to eat. My students are all for it and follow these directions to the T. I take them for a restroom break after lunch…and I give them a good five or so minutes. Luckily my lunch period is 15 minutes longer than other periods (not factoring in lunch) so I’ve improvised. Administration hasn’t said anything yet to me about it.

Even though our lunch is to be duty free, administration is present in the cafeteria during lunch and handles most behavior issues. I’m appreciative of that, because I’m well aware that this isn’t the case at other school sites.

Lastly, I have a planning period that is approximately 1 hour and 45 minutes long from bell to bell. We only have mandatory meetings every other Tuesday and every Thursday. Our other days are scheduled for IEP’s and parent conferences if needed.

While I’m all for the 30 minute lunch, I wouldn’t go with the bill in its present state because there’s too much room left for interpretation and it doesn’t stipulate WHO would be supervising the children.

By West Metro Teacher

February 17, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this

Oh, and I should add: Our planning period is immediately after lunch. Our administration has no problems in letting you leave campus during your planning to eat lunch, provided there are no meetings that day. They just ask you return within an hour.

I’ve told them numerous times that I was going to eat lunch outside of the school just to get away from the kids. Their reply, “Just sign out, and be back in an hour.”

By ACI

February 17, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

How about this one! In the school district in which I work, subs MUST get an HOUR lunch period and teachers must either cover classes if needed, not get a lunch, or do lunch duty. Go figure!

By wwww

February 17, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

I am a teacher who does not care about getting a duty free lunch. I can’t believe the legislature is wasting their time with this nonsense.
Since we’re talking about lunch, let’s talk about: 1. nutrition - find a way to quit feeding the kids crap AND 2. 45 minutes to eat it.

I don’t care about working through my lunch at all. I did it when I worked in the “real world”. (Gotta love that one).

Want to improve schools? Get rid of bad teachers and ineffective policies. Discipline problems are greatly reduced when you have strong, confident effective teachers that are allowed to do what is necessary to help kids to learn.
Also, discipline problems would be better if the food they ate for breakfast and lunch was only marginally better than what I feed my dog every night. And I’m not exagerrating. Go check it out some time for yourselves. I would take a pay cut to improve lunchroom nutrition.

By holdingAJCaccountable

February 17, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

“Discipline problems are greatly reduced when you have strong, confident effective teachers that are allowed to do what is necessary to help kids to learn”

When teachers are given administrative support in an enviroment free from retailation, you create strong, effective teachers.

Why is it that the same teacher, given a new administration, or a new school system that supports discipline, suddenly becomes twice as strong, twice as effective? Did the teacher suddenly get better? Or did the teaching conditions suddenly get better?

Mind you, as in any profession, we have some first class incompetents that need to go, but by in large, it is the system that’s broke in terms of discipline, not the teacher.

After all, the teacher is Gwinnett who was physically assault wasn’t, by all accounts, “ineffective”. On the contrary, she was respected enough to train other teachers. It was the system, a system that allowed an a written death threat to go unpunished, that failed; NOT the teacher.

By teacher

February 17, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

I am an elementary school teacher here in metro atlanta. We at our school have no required duty during our 30 minute lunch block in which we are not required to do anything once we get our kids to through the lines. If a teacher chooses to work during their lunch, it is THEIR choice. Most teachers have it organized to leave their rooms a couple minutes early to maximize this time. If teachers run late for lunch… it is THEIR choice. If they work the minimum required hours and still don’t have work done… it is THEIR choice. We are required to work from 7:15 until 2:45… 7.5 hours. I get at work at 6 a.m. I get to relax during my lunch because all of my work is done early and I rarely stay late unless I have a meeting or conference. I don’t want to hear ohter teachers complain about lack of lunch time when most could benefit from simple planning and preparation of their time.

By Jack

February 17, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

holdingAJCacc and Laura Not to change the subject, but, What happened with the Gwinnett teacher who was assaulted and the student. I must have missed the AJC follow up.

By holdingAJCaccountable

February 17, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Jack,

Glad you changed the subject! What did happen? Did Gwinnett hold a tribunal hearing as is legally mandated? I posted on this asking for an update myself about a week ago.

Very disappointed that Ms. Fair’s fellow teachers on this blog haven’t supported her by keeping the spotlight on this issue and holding the AJC “accountable” for doing the appropriate follow up.

The one exception to this is Rick Badie, who did do a follow up with the teacher. Now we need a follow up with what the system did to support teachers by send a crystal clear message that this is wholly unacceptable.

By Lovely lady

February 17, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

Hello all, First let me say I work as an AP World History /Gifted Social Studies teacher in a Dekalb County High School. And yes, I’d love a duty free 30 or more lunch period for teachers.. We definitely need it. But the fact is we probably won’t get it. We don’t just teach…most of us high school teachers teach 2 or more subjects which means lots of PLANNING, in school and at home. Then not to mention the various student group/clubs, sport activities that we head after school and before school.Now that I think about it we need more than 30 minutes…But hey we love the job..and I for one will not be going anywhere..Because I do love teaching.

By Michael

February 17, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

Middle School teacher here. I do duty 3 times a week. Lunch duty, silent lunch duty, academic recovery duty: So I get 2 x 25 minute lunches a week. In corporate I got 1 hr or so every day. Don’t think that instruction does not suffer b/c the teachers are harrassed so much!

By CeeCee

February 17, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

True, behavior is a problem in schools not because of the teacher but rather because of the social environment they come from. Blame the ills of the child on the school instead of where it belongs, with the family environment. Children are missing the social skill development that begins at home; and trying to correct it in school in most cases proves to be a tremendous burden because parents don’t believe that their child does anything wrong. Shame—shame—shame

Don’t know what the answer is—it’s a major societal problem with what children are exposed to day to day via different mediums.

By CeeCee

February 17, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

True, behavior is a problem in schools not because of the teacher but rather because of the social environment they come from. Blame the ills of the child on the school instead of where it belongs, with the family environment. Children are missing the social skill development that begins at home; and trying to correct it in school in most cases proves to be a tremendous burden because parents don’t believe that their child does anything wrong. Shame—shame—shame

Don’t know what the answer is—it’s a major societal problem with what children are exposed to day to day via different mediums.

By chris

February 17, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

Lee, per your concern…

Be careful doing that. You’ve already admitted to “being the a-hole” and standing up to administration. You now turn in a poor performance appraisal and they can (and often will) use that against you.

I genuinely appreciate your concern, but I think you have a misconception that: a) I think that my position is in jeopardy, b) they could find someone to replace me, c) I am not more valuable to the school than the school is to me (financially speaking).

I have already voiced concern about people writing their own reviews mostly due to the fact that it allows the admin (and it’s just the guy doing the science dept as far as I know) the convenient position of not really knowing what is going on at the school. And we get along personally, it’s just that we’re both the a-holes on opposite sides of the desk when it comes to the job. Him for the admins, me for mostly myself but somewhat for my colleagues and students as well. Without my planning time, I pull time from the 250+ volunteer hours I provide each year for unpaid extra-curricular activities. I can’t do it all and have a family life and I’m sure not taking any more time out of the family bucket.

By Cotton

February 17, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this

Give it up - a break would be very nice!

By Cotton

February 17, 2008 7:16 PM | Link to this

Give it to em- a break would be very nice!

By Mom of Two

February 17, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

Dear Teachers: Thank you for the job that you do. My family is fortunate and blessed with a fantastic elementary school with wonderful and caring teachers who work their “A’s” off. I really love my kids school. Thank you, thank you, thank you!! I’m sorry that uninterrupted time has to be legislated…sorry, sorry state of affairs. P.S.: Thanks, John Woodham. Let’s use school money from taxes for schools and the teachers…..

By Greg

February 17, 2008 11:19 PM | Link to this

How about paying teachers a lot more? That is a better solution. You will attract better people and they will want to stay. Now the teachers who stay have to be really dedicated, given the salary they are paid.

By WFC

February 18, 2008 7:27 AM | Link to this

TEACHERS! There is HOPE! It’s called “retirement.” Fulton County now pays me $42,000 per year to live in a nice house in RiverWalk. Yes, I have other income from investments but living well REALLY IS the best revenge!

Now, seriously, about the lunch deal:

• The Soviet army in WWII often marched unarmed infantry through mine fields to clear them. They had masses of expendable men to do this. It’s the same with school systems and teachers.

*Another lunch scandal. Assistant principals making $100,000 standing guard duty.

By Bob

February 18, 2008 7:43 AM | Link to this

If teachers are supervising during lunch, who will be? And how much will that cost? How dependable will the new supervisors be?

By Nancy Sharian

February 18, 2008 7:54 AM | Link to this

As a survivor of 15 years of public high school teaching, I agree that teachers should be guaranteed an uninterrupted lunch hour. The general public has no idea how stressful and chaotic many teachers’ lives are at work, not to mention the work they take home with them. It’s about time someone started showing some compassion for the people who care for our children five days a week!

By rascal

February 18, 2008 8:14 AM | Link to this

Teachers are getting just what they deserve when they let the unions run their careers instead of letting their work speak for itself with both oarents and school leaders. I can guarantee you that good teachers would make more and have much happier lives if they didn’t turn their lives over to a union with the wrongheaded goals and priorities the teacher unions currently follow. Teachers, stand on your own two feet, demand results of your kids, demand bad teachers get booted, and get rid of archaic rules about teacher degrees, which are pretty much useless. Math teachers need to be math experts, science teachers need science degrees and english teachers need to speak english

By Bob

February 18, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this

There is a misconception out there that elementary teachers have a 30 minute, duty free lunch hour. The 30 minutes is from portal (room) to thru the lunch line,rest room breaks, drinking fountain breaks to portal (room). Usually the elementary teacher sits with the students, stopping eating to correct undesirable conduct from students, sometimes interrupted by other adults (ie parents, principal, office staff, etc). When separate eating areas are furnished, then there might be ‘duty free’ lunch.

By WFC

February 18, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this

There are no unions in Georgia schools. Georgia is a “right to work” state and unions for public employees are illegal. Got it?

By Tobacco is King, Again

February 18, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this

Based on what I see in Cobb County Schools, the teachers don’t seem to be suffering from a lack of food - denying them lunch would be doing them a favor, most are already obese or well on the way to obesity. Only the 20 something’s have so far avoided that extra layer of 50 pounds of lard…..

By notanative

February 18, 2008 8:32 AM | Link to this

I teach in a middle school in southeast GA. Our administration is nowhere in sight during lunch. If they rotated being present at lunch, it might actually cut down on some of the rowdiness. My team supervises 100 kids while we eat. Never do I have a day to just eat. I especially hate it when our four administraters waltz into the cafeteria, get their lunches, and parade by us on their way to their private lunchtime that lasts at least an hour. Talk about balls. That’s the only time they seem to have any.

By Mary

February 18, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this

As a parent, I want my child’s teacher to be able to eat lunch. And not just for 10-15 minutes. Stretch my childs day out 20 more minutes if necessary but please allow these teachers to have that much needed break.

I get an hour for lunch and it is a welcome break from sitting in my office and being in meetings all day. These teachers dont get much down time….30 minutes for an uninterrupted lunch seems the least we can do.

My thought is that a well fed and rested teacher can work wonders. :)

The men and women who take on the task of teaching our kids are heros in my book! THANKS TO YOU ALL!!!

By jim d

February 18, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

Be interesting to add up all the “Duty Free” time teachers spend on this blog b-tchin about not having any duty free time.

By They need to go

February 18, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this

Rascal (and others)

See WFC and others regarding unions, and as far as getting rid of bad teachers…PLEASE tell us exactly how to open administrators’ eyes and minds and give them the guts to do that.

I work in HS and there are some TERRIBLE teachers in this good school, but they get the easy assignments and others are supposed to take up the slack.

Personally, I work with someone who makes $80K to do essentially nothing that she doesn’t want to do. I’m not a team player if I complain about having to do 90% of the work (at half her pay) and have been told that this attitude will adversely affect my evaluation.

YES, I’m looking for another job - have been keeping my eyes open since my first semester there, but the last 3 people to work with this person had to 1) resign; 2)leave the state; and 3) retire early to get away from this situation. Unfortunately in school systems, you are bound by a contract and administrators give you references. If they don’t want you to leave, so they have to find another sucker to work with this non-worker, guess what they must tell the other principals? (The person who moved out of state tried for four years to transfer within our system… and was passed over in jobs for people with no experience. What does that say?)

As a parent, my kids have been lucky to have mostly competent to excellent teachers. However, they’ve had a couple who had no business in education - these teachers HATED kids! (Not kidding, they’ve existed in each of the six schools in which I’ve worked as a parent or employee.) Why do we put up with these people? Maybe because administrators have to do lunch duty instead pf having the time to do meaningful evaluations and really follow up on (and get rid of?) the slackers and haters. Perhaps the GGA can acknowledge that principals need some discretionary funds (lost in the temporary austerity cuts) to do things like pay minimum wage to someone to cover lunch duty so administrators can do the higher level jobs. (Of course some administrators would probably prefer lunch duty to dealing with personnel issues, but that speaks to the joke that an ed leadership degree may be.)

By Rita Eat

February 18, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

Teachers should have a duty-free lunch. Administrators, counselors, grad coaches, security guards, and other non-instructional personnel should supervise students in the cafeteria. They do not supervise or teach students during the day; therefore, it should not be an inconvenience for them to supervise students during lunch. After all they are working in a school where student supervision is needed by more than the teachers. Everyone in a school except teachers get a duty free lunch. Why do we not give teachers a duty-free lunch?

By luvs2teach

February 18, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

To all the “No Whiners” Incorporated - we’re not whining; we’re talking about the blog topic. Laura would be sad if her topic were a bust - 110+ comments = great success!

When I respond, I never consider what I am doing complaining - I consider it explaining - shedding light on a situaton - correcting misconceptions - perhaps playing devil’s advocate and providing food for thought.

For the record, this is not an issue for me personally. I don’t have duty-free lunch, but the school at which I teach, it’s not that big a deal. At my last school however, the two worst fights I had to break up were both in the cafeteria…ever see what happens to the mouth of a girl who wears braces after that mouth has been shoved into a concrete wall a couple times? You won’t want to eat, duty-free or otherwise.

Along with teaching, I’ve been in the military, the corporate world, and a variety of retail/restaurant/service industry jobs. Every job had its good points and bad points - when, how long, and under what conditions you ate lunch is one of them. In retail/restaurant, you got a break, but it might not be at a good point in your shift. In the military, I got an hour an a half, but there was always that pesky possibility of going-to-war issue. Sure, other people may have to eat through their lunch times, but it’s often a choice - maybe to leave earlier or not take work home home. For teachers in middle school, it’s not. We have to do it. (yeah, yeah, the whole “you chose the job”…blah blah - I know that - I said this wasn’t that big an issue for me - I was just giving food for thought - pun intended).

When I was in junior high, we had a half hour to go to the cafeteria - on your own - and eat with what ever friends were there. If you finished early, and it was nice, you could go outside until the bell rang. Teachers rotated lunch-room duty.

One of my biggest surprises my first day of teaching was to find out that A) I had to line the kids up and walk them to the cafeteria like elementary kids and B) they had to sit with their class. My watching them was the least of my surprises.

I was not a teacher when my daughter was in middle school, and I was shocked that she only had twenty minutes to eat. Rather than worrying about the teachers, maybe the legislature should be worried about the two-fold problem of kids eating too early/late and not having enough time.

Lee - I can’t tell from the article is this was broguht by teachers or simply supported by the one organization mentioned. In either case, you’re right about us wanting less meddling, but I think most teachers you talk would say this is low on their list of priorities.

Meagan, Rascal, and others: PAGE and GEA are not unions, per se. They are professional organizations. They can lobby, support, and provide some benefits, but they cannot collective bargain. Teachers are considered state employees and are not allowed to do that.

By fedup

February 18, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Idea: Let the BOE adminstrators and BOE members do lunch duty everyday. This would give them a good idea of what teachers are dealing with everyday. This would also allow them to see what really goes on at school.

By Sarah

February 19, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

Don’t know if this was asked before. Who would we hire to watch the students while we ate lunch?