Get Schooled

By TeacherMom

January 29, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

Thank goodness! I am an educator that supports vouchers 100%! I will allow my child to take advantage of the special needs voucher for middle school since he is in speech therapy. I was hoping that a similar program would be offered to gifted students since they are also special needs, but I am grateful that he is still in speech, which is where I will keep him.

I have had the benefit of having a child in private and one in public school. There is a significant difference between the two. The attitudes of the teachers in public school is “so what” many times. They claim they want “involved” parents, but really many just want a reason to complain. Of course this isn’t true of all, but I’ve had enough. I teach public, so I also get the opportunity to teach kids that could care less about school. The level of disrespect of incredible. Administrators don’t want to write them up or suspend them because we made AYP be the skin of our noses! For once in the past four years, I actually agree with Bush! Scary!

By HS Teacher Too

January 29, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

I have often struggled with the issue of vouchers, and a voucher by any other name is still a voucher.

The thing I come back to is a faith — perhaps misplaced? — that even among the worst students at the worst schools, the people who will request and take advantage of the vouchers are, by default, demonstrating that they value education. So I take hope that there would follow the natural consequences of those students truly being able to do well once they’re placed in a more conducive environment.

My thoughts against vouchers have always been rooted in the idea that on some level, if you take the “problem” students and put them in a “good” school, the students don’t change; the school does. (This is especially true in cases where discipline is an issue and the schools’ hands are tied or they choose not to act severely; the school will fall rather than the students rising.) [Keep in mind that this is a broad illustration. Please don’t think I am attacking the very students I tried to describe in my first full paragraph.]

And, as you say, ultimately the poor schools only get poorer. To that end, I don’t know a solution. This will be an interesting day to read everyone’s comments.

By jim d

January 29, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

As usual Bush’s educational plans Suck.

If he truly wanted improvement, why not insist on CHOICE SCHOOLS for all?

Michigans “Choice schools” are a great success. Why does he fail to explore and duplicate that which is working?

By Aurbey

January 29, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

The voucher should not just be for lower income. We all pay into the system. I am middle class and cannot afford to pay for my child to go to private school. Why should other children have more opportunity than mine when their parents aren’t paying as much into the system. If you are going to give vouchers to one child it should be given to all who want it. I am of course only addressing the idea of giving vouchers to kids in at risk schools or lower income. Special needs vouchers is an entirely different scenario and if anything I feel they should be more accessible to those who need them.

BTW Laura, Go Hoosiers!

By Lisa B.

January 29, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

In many rural Georgia counties, there are no choices. In many systems, there are only one elementary, one middle and one high school. Many of these counties have no private schools either. How would school choice work in those counties? Busing to neighboring counties can add hours to an already long day for children.

By jim d

January 29, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

Lisa,

Google Michagan choice schools.

By L. King

January 29, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

Hey Jim, give me a link to the Michigan school programs. I would like to read about the schools.

By jim d

January 29, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

lisa,

but correct my spelling first. (LOL)

By jim d

January 29, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

Golly, gee —- rory,

and Jm thought my comments were offensive.

By Henry County

January 29, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

Take the government out of schools and they might actually start educating children again.

By Henry County

January 29, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

Take the government out of schools and they might actually start educating children again.

By gwinnett educator

January 29, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

I know we should ignore and not feed into the foolishness of some posters…but after reading Rory’s comment, I had to chuckle. Being a Black woman who happens to be a teacher..I had to laugh because of this…YOU DO NOT PAY KIDS TO GET TUTORDED. Seems like you need a little Spelling lessons. It isn’t a difficult thing. QUICK find some TUTORIAL service so that you will learn how to properly add endings to your words. It should have been TUTORED.

SIGH..off to pick up my students from ART.

By jim d

January 29, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

Ahh, hell, no need to try to be nice about it!

Rory, you’re a friggin idiot redneck ashole.

Go blog on wootens site.

By E.J.

January 29, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

I am in favor of the president’s program. I currently have a sixth grader who is not learning anything in her Georgia public school even though she is in the “gifted” program. We moved here from a state that was evidently more advanced. I would love to send her to another school that would allow her to reach her potential. I am even considering selling the house we just bought to move to a better school system. Her current school is failing by all standards.

By jct

January 29, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

I guess the moderator is not working today so Rory can make those types of comments.

I don’t agree with vouchers because I, like Lisa, wonder what will have in rural areas where there are no private schools. I don’t see it as a racial issue but one of socio-econonmics. I just can’t see the unengaged lower-income parent running out to get their child the voucher. If awarded a voucher will the child get in the ‘best’ school for the child or the school that won’t charge more than the voucher is worth. Some private schools can then become warehouses where little education will take place.

Is that better than a public school where at least there are some standards? I would like more concrete discussion with real solutions before just saying vouchers are the answer. Lastly, I believe states can come up with better programs than the feds one size fits all approach. We see how great NCLB is working.

By gwinnett educator

January 29, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

OOPS I had to come back and admit my error before Rory picks up on it. (yeah right) I did not use the correct subject verb agreement. GASP. I should have said that a little Spelling LESSON was needed..not lessons.

oh the horror.

As for Bush’s plan, I am still on the fence with this one due to the fact that I spent 10 yrs in a very low performing school.

By V for Vendetta

January 29, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

LOL, Jim.

Rory probably isn’t much brighter than the spitoon in the corner of his trailer, but that’s another story …

I agree with what Jim said: if we’re going to subsidize something like this with tax money, especially when it’s for the lowest common denominator, than we should provide that same choice to ALL students. Somewhere in Rory’s racist, insensitive comments, there lies a nugget of truth. Race notwithstanding, we ARE as a county guilty of lifting the worst of our society and ignoring the middle. Sure, the rich have it easy in Bush’s America, but plans like this only hurt the middle as well.

Jim’s proposal is a good one, and one that helps the middle provide their kids with the best possible education. If they’re anything like my parents were — middle class with smart, successful children — they would probably appreciate the opporunity to help their children get a leg up. That way, more socio-demographic levels are serviced, not just the bottom.

But what do I know, anyway? I’m only a teacher. Hey, I know one thing! I know how I’m going to vote come Fall …

:-)

By L. King

January 29, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

Disregard Jim I see your post

By remember I told u so!!!!

January 29, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

Rory, as we can see you are a complete racist. The thing is we all bleed the same color blood and spend the same green money.You will have to give in account to not only what you speak, but your thoughts as well. You very well could be on your death bed and the only doctors or nurse to save your life could very well be the black child you are putting down today.

By remember I told u so!!!!

January 29, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

Rory, as we can see you are a complete racist. The thing is we all bleed the same color blood and spend the same green money.You will have to give in account to not only what you speak, but your thoughts as well. You very well could be on your death bed and the only doctors or nurse to save your life could very well be the black child you are putting down today.

By JustMe

January 29, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

The voucher program is bunk. And, any reasoning that I have heard to justify it is flawed.

First of all, this program as described by Bush, is for kids to flee ‘failing’ schools. Here is a clue - the schools are failing BECAUSE of the kids! It isn’t the building that fails. It isn’t the teachers that fail. It isn’t the location that fails.

Regarding teachers: There are too many examples of teachers from ‘failing’ schools that transfer to ‘successful’ schools and are then considered good teachers. Did those individuals magically become good teachers? No. The difference was the student population, not the teacher.

Vouchers is just a way to put my dollars into others hands and I fully resent that! That is stealing - and I thought that was illegal.

Bad students going from one school to another won’t magically change that bad student. If anything, it will pull down that new school. That student will have to change their behavior and likely their attitude towards school to improve - they don’t need to change buidings to do that. They need good parents to do that.

I highly doubt if any successful private school will accept those vouchers! Why would a successful private school let in a bunch of potential bad apples to spoil their school? And, why would the wealthy people that ran away from public schools to begin with accept this?

Bush’s plan is ANOTHER hand waving gesture that will accomplish NOTHING.

If anything, a crop of horrible new private schools will pop up to accept that voucher money. They won’t have to adhere to the NCLB stuff, the State of GA crap (EOCT, CRCT, etc.), and so on. They will produce useless citizens without an education, but will be happy to accept those vouchers.

Is this what Bush is wanting anyway? Has Chaney started a private school company? Someone should check into that!

By DB

January 29, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

I go back and forth on vouchers. On one hand, if my home is in the district of a poorly performing school (or the lines have been re-drawn and I inadvertently find myself in the “wrong” school district), why should my gifted child (or any child, for that matter)be punished by having to attend a school that isn’t getting the job done? If I, as a parent, have the initiative and the inclination to see to it that my child attends a school that better meets their needs, then why should some arbitrary line drawn on a map stop me?

On the other hand, there’s the old arguement that if you take all the talented kids out of a school, the only thing you have left are the problem children that prove a sometimes overwhelming challenge to the school and its learning environment.

As a parent, I say: Well, too bad, I’m not in this for every kid, I’m just trying to do my best for my own child. I’m not going to sacrifice my own child’s educaton on the altar of political correctness. Give me that voucher and allow ME to determine the best educational path for my child.

As a citizen and member of the community, though, it’s troubling that, regardless of how much money we throw at the problem, nothing much happens to significantly improve the situation. I don’t want to see sub-standard schools for ANYONE.

But yeah, I bailed out. I chose to educate my children in a private school. They had, to my mind, an optimal educational experience which prepared them extremely well for both college and life. I paid the pricetag without complaints, because it was MY choice. It was not a “designer school” choice; it meant that the car didn’t get replaced for 10 years, and it meant a part-time job for me, while the kids were in school. However, as a parent, I chose to enlist the support of a private school, whose mission and values were congruent to my own, to help me provide a total learning and growing environment in which to raise my kids.

I don’t know how to fix the public schools. I wish I did. I am almost afraid that they are unfixable, because society has dumped so many of their problems on the schools to fix — single parent homes, gangs, drugs, alcohol, illegal immigration, teen pregnancy, absentee parenting that fails to instill basic values and a sense of self-respect. The government and society hasn’t been able to fix these problems anywhere else — why do they think that a SCHOOL is going to be able to fix things?

By Heather

January 29, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

Wow Rory, you need a hug. Just for kicks, why don’t you go to Bowen Homes and repeat that statement on a loud speaker. Then wait for your response.

By Ugh

January 29, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Another plan that leaves out the middle class. I agree with a previous blogger, what about the middle class family who is in a low grade school, but can’t provide private school? The program should be for ALL TAX PAYING FAMILY children, no matter what color they are. We live in a top ranked Cobb school district. I would be pi…ed off if my kids schools have to welcome transient students who disrupt the school and are a bad influence. We live in East Cobb for a reason and have built our community and schools up to a standard that I would hate to see disrupted. Less govt in the schools would be better: let the adminstration and teachers teach w/o all the politics and such. Bush’s plan is another govt. motive to mess with what strong PTA and private interaction have provided in good schools. When are we going to stop paying or making up for for those who don’t carry their fair share in today’s world?

By dawn

January 29, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

Rory,

By dawn

January 29, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

Rory,

AMEN BROTHER !!

Heather, talk about Bowen Homes, thats where the problems only begin- WHY, WHY, WHY keep having babies you cant feed or educate !!! I came to a conclusion, the “babies mama’s” are trying to trap the “babies dadddy’s”, who, by the way are drug dealers, so they can be a part of “thug life” !! Thats Bowen Homes for you !!! BUT, the daddy’s have 4 other childred by 4 other “babies mama’s”, so he cant commit OR pay child support !!! Its a sad thing and US TAXPAYERS, WHO WORK EVERYDAY, GO TO SCHOOL, AND LIVE DECENT LIVES, are stuck paying for Ya’ll’s babies !! Maybe Barak Obama will come to your rescue- I doubt it !! He is the Antichrist, ya’ll better start reading the Bible !! He fits that bill PERFECTLY !!!

By Tater

January 29, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

Hey JustMe

“Bush’s plan is ANOTHER hand waving gesture that will accomplish NOTHING.”

Let’s try something since we are 41st out of the 50 states. At least the President is trying.. Didn’t see Hilary or Obama offering anything of substance.

By my2cents

January 29, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

providing vouchers helps the concern parent make a choice, and sadly enough, not everyone will care. Also, you have to realize, private schools usually have a waiting list, and they can kick any student out of school if they want, but they will still keep your money after the expell the bad seed, they do not care if the money came from the goverment. Also, they do not have to accept you. Most private schools have a maximum number of students, and do not HAVE to provided a desk your you little devil just because YOU wantd him to go there.

STOP THINKING THAT PRIVATE SCHOOLS HAVE TO ACT LIKE PUBLIC SCHOOLS

By Me

January 29, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

The only way to have equal education in this country is to have equal schools. Instead of having vouchers and choice what is wrong with making all the schools the same. It would most likely be cheaper. What people do not realize is that most all of the so called falling schools are failing do to large special needs population or demograhics. Yes they put a lot of money into some schools and chance the rules for those particular schools and they students do better. But just look at the failing schools. Most all of them have students that come out with good educations. They go to Ga. Tech, Harvard, Georgia, etc. and are best in thier class. They do this despite the eviroment they have to do it in. It is not the teachers(although it is some but just a few) it is the students. Good students do well whereever they are, bad students do bad whereever they all. If they do better at another school they do better because they have changed. Other wise they would still be a bad student.

By Tater

January 29, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

If you want to know what problems the education of our children face, go to http://www.nea.org/edstats/index.html and look at the propaganda.

Again, nothing of substance from the NEA, just “more money to teachers” is the answer. Does anyone really believe that giving the teachers more money (Georgia pays an average of $46,000 per year, without benefits added in). Will $50,000 a year make them perform better?

Our ranking, which we were 40th last year (we dropped to 41st) is abysmal.

One of the only ways for education to improve in Georgia is for parents and teachers to collaborate on what is best for the student. It seems that the majority of parents refuse to get involved in their children’s education.

By SET

January 29, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

The best way to escape poor schools is not to go to one. That means selecting the community you live in and not living anywhere near the underclass. Can we say “White Flight”? It’s Followed by every other ethnic’s “middle-class flight”. Then your cities turn into Cleveland or Oakland.

None of this would be required if our public schools segregated the students by deportment and academic measures (IQ for the most part). Ultra Leftist San Francisco does this with Lowell High School which is a public High School with admission by application only.

Leftist California does this with University of California where UC Berkeley School of Engineering looks like a Chinese Outpost (Check out the School of Business and the Law Schools which are not exactly integrated either).

You can have good public schools if you segregate the campuses by something to do with merit and Outlaw Affirmative Action. There will be minority students all right - in proportion to their competitiveness in the subjects offered. Over time the numbers will wax and wane. The first movements will be seen in the hybird or mixed marriage students. (ie Irish-Asian students at the law school and the engineering school, etc.)

Rory came off as a boor but face it people, the different ethnics are different and they like different things. You can’t have the same ratios of ethnics in the various majors as in the population because the skillsets are in no way evenly distributed. Too Bad, So Sad.

If CA can face facts so can GA. The differences are visible in grade school and by puberty are pronounced. There is a place in society for all, but good basic education is a must and the one-size-fits-all public schooling is leaving Blacks without an immune system in this Brave New World.

Until the public schools place discipline first, literacy next, and pleasure optional, your urban public schools will remain ungovernable nuthouses. Bright students of every color will flee for private schools. Staff will continue to work in substandard conditions. No one with money will support school bonds.

By br

January 29, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Sounds like to me that Rory and Dawn are having an Obama “Hater” moment. LOL. You are idiots!!!! I tried my best not to respond to your idiotic and ignorant statements. Yes, I said it because there you go with the Black statements. You know what, I cannot go there with you freaking idiot fools because you are uneducated and allow yourselves to label all black people as lazy. Look around because there are some white people (you see that I used the word “some”)in the same boat.

By Tony

January 29, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

All I can think about as I read today’s entries is Vonnegut’s “Harrison Bergeron”. You can not make all schools equal because communities do not all value the same goals. We already have a federal department of education that is trying to make all schools equal and look at the silliness that has evolved. SET has been much more blunt about these kinds of issues than I.

I oppose vouchers for several reasons but the most important is this: If I move to an area that has excellent schools, I would not want miscreants to have easy access to use a voucher and enroll in that school. If I want private school for my children then I should pay for it.

The people who argue they don’t have children and shouldn’t have to pay taxes for school need a reminder that the ones in school now are the ones who will be paying your social security. You better hope they get half-way decent educations.

Schools reflect the values of a community. If the schools stink, then that says more about the community. That can only be fixed by improving the values within the community and schools can not do that.

By Tman

January 29, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

The voucher system will mostly be used for kids who have good grades and great attitudes but are in a failing school environment. To think the parents of a child who is failing school will take the effort to send them to a better one is non sense for the most part. They don’t care now what makes you think they will take the extra effort to do the paperwork.

By PPH

January 29, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

Less Government = Better EVERYTHING!!!!

By JustMe

January 29, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

Hey Tator -

Great idea! Let’s try just anything to change for the sake of change. Let’s try requiring all students to stand on their head in class - maybe that’ll work!

My point is that we should only ‘try’ something if it is reasonable to have a positive impact. Not just because it is different.

Besides Bush’s hand waving is for the nation, not just for the State of GA.

Finally, I do agree with your point that all parents need to be involved with education. This doesn’t mean to fight with teachers to ensure that your child gets an A. This means to work with teachers and the school to provide the best education for your child to succeed.

Also, more money to teachers is a viable solution…. not to ‘reward’ teachers, but rather to encourage more highly qualified people to the profession. In GA, there is a teacher shortage in high school math and science. This means that class sizes are really too large for effective education. Per the law of supply and demand, we must increase pay to lure more people into that profession, right?

At least in the metro area, school systems are already ‘trying’ many things to try to increase success. There are charter schools, magnet schools, theme schools, and so on. Why does anyone think that vouchers will suddenly allow another option that will ‘work?’

Also, as I have mentioned, what motivation does a successful private school have to accept vouchers? The students there are there to run away from those ‘bad’ students (read race, religon, whatever). Those private schools would risk their base population for the sake of a few vouchers?

The only private schools that will likely accept vouchers will be those desparate for money. And, if they are desparate for money, do you think that they have student success as a priority?

By Tony

January 29, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

Link to Harrison Bergeron

Perhaps we are closer to 2081 than we realize.

By SET

January 29, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

Tater: I disagree with you that a Public School System requires the participation of the parents to do a good job. Our American Public School systems in the urban areas (Detroit, Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, etc) managed to educate the lower class who flocked to the cities 1910 to 1940, including a whole lot of ESL immigrants. These Schools never pretended to give a fig what the parents wanted or what the parents could contribute to the educational process. It’s nice if the parents helped, but it was optional. And I say this having family who taught public schools going back into the 19th Century.

The schools educated all the children that dropped onto the playground so that those children would be ready for industry, military, marriage, or higher ed. They never pretended to need parental approval or participation. They certainly didn’t think of their schools as mere incubators for prisons and county coroners.

Our big CA School Districts (Los Angeles, Oakland, etc.) are incubators for the prison-industrial complex. The higher functioning students can get $100k a year jobs as prison guards or if they are really good students, police officers. The bottom half aren’t so lucky.

I am sure that the kids are dumber now than in 1940. They could be trained for a better life. But not if you aren’t ready, willing and able to knock some heads in the process, like we used to.

I see Vouchers as a state takeover of private schools and I oppose them like I oppose any other Marxist power grab.

By V for Vendetta

January 29, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

LOL, Dawn, “Yall better start reading the Bible …”

It’s Bible-toting, racist fools like you that give the South a bad rep. I’m a Southerner born and bred, and sometimes I’m ashamed of my own heritage. People like you and Rory make me sick, and you’re not worth the bullet it would take to end your miserable lives. On a sunnier note …

Tony makes a good point about the miscreants flooding into the “good” schools, but I wonder if that would be as bad a problem as people think. Look, we all know there are certain cultural sects that could give a rat’s posterior about education, but it’s that same attitude that will keep them out of the “good” schools. They won’t even use the opportunity given to them. They sure aren’t using it now (in the form of wellfare, food stamps, work programs, etc.)

The number one group of people that would use a choice-based program?

Gifted students.

This would be a dream come true for gifted students and their families. They have been crapped on for years because of NCLB. Watch them line up and form “super schools” — places where education and discipline are already enforced. I teach at one of the “good” schools, and I’ve blogged before about our numerous problems, but at the end of the day we are still a desirable place to be.

You’d be surprised how many students beg their parents to move back down the road into some terrible school districts. FLAT OUT BEG.

You’d be even more surprised at how many parents do it.

Pathetic.

By One

January 29, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

It doesn’t matter what Dubya does now, JUST GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is the stupidest, most lying, greedy dog this country has ever seen!!!! Good riddance!!!!!!!!!!!

By HS Teacher Too

January 29, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

SET — I think you left out one big aspect of the situation you describe in your post at 2:22. Sure, the schools didn’t want/need the parents’ involvement. But the parents stood behind what happened at the schools. Everything wasn’t a (potentially, and likely) cause of action for a lawsuit. So, if for no other reason than schools could effectively enforce their own rules without threat of litigation, they did have parental support.

That’s a big thing to overlook when you make your comparisons.

By Tater

January 29, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

*JustMe

Might want to read http://www.atlanta.k12.ga.us/content/schools/CPSComparison.pdf

This will show you that one of the reasons schools are failing is because of the high overhead and administrative personnel for the Atlanta, DeKalb and Clayton School Systems. Yes, change is needed and change for the sake of change works.

We get stuck in the minutia of saying “we’ve always done it this way” and forget to see what we have done to education in Georgia.

So your answer is “it ain’t broke so don’t fix it”.

How about proposing something, anything that would help except blaming the President.

Additionally, One you are obviously a product of our decayed public school system.

By JustMe

January 29, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

SET -

Although I disagree with your logic, I agree with your position of opposing school vouchers. At least we can agree on that!

One -

Amen! I find it ‘funny’ and ‘sad’ that he is trying to accomplish some mid-East peace in the last year to at least have one positive thing come out of his 8 years in office.

Also, I hope that the republicans in general remember who was in office (Pres and Congress) that gave our Country this wonderful economy (recession). It will take a while for the Democrats to correct all of the horrible errors made by the republicans over the last 8 years. However, knowing the ditto-heads, I am sure that they will find some way to ‘spin’ this to blame Democrats.

By Tater

January 29, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

JustMe It’s amazing that you forget that we haven’t had a major terrorist incident since 9/11, our economy has been strong since the President has been in office, and our taxes have been reduced.

Our current “recession” has been caused by banks, mortgage companies and “gotta have it now” people who got sub-prime mortgages. These are the same people who couldn’t get a credit card if they tried.

How this has to do with the education system is interesting. You can forget about mid-east peace (read the Bible).

Our economy is wonderful and the envy of the world. The democrats fixing the problem? Really.. What have Hilary and Obama done since they have been Senators?…

Not assigning spin, the democrats and republicans can equally be held with blame. We keep no politicians feet to the fire, especially in our state where our two Senators have done NOTHING, yes they are republicans JustMe. Goes to show you that we ditto-heads are more informed than the bash Bush or any republican people.

By Justiceforall

January 29, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

DB, I totally agree with your valid point however, the need for our children to have healthy but nurturing in quality and learning educational program in place would be exceptionally conducive to all of our black and white children in America. But many of us do not have a clue what that involves. However, after attending my child’s school and monitoring the classrooms at his school, I realized that there’s more than enough evidence for our so call government to by now become not only held responsible for upgrading and implementing current laws that are in place throughout this (GA) state’s Department of Family and Children Services that will hold parents accountable for pursuing and furthering their child’s education with certain learning disabilities, so the child can receive delegated structure in a nurturing environment. Who does our government hold responsible when children are not in school? Answer: Parents. So, if they hold us as parents accountable for our child’s school attendance then I stress we as parents need to delegate control factors as a necessity for our children to value the quality of education they are receiving in the black communities. If this government was focused on the improvement or quality of our children’s education which includes the poor and needy children of America with learning disabilities, they would stop depriving our black young children strategically, by replacing the mass of poor in quality, non-educated teachers as mentors with poor leadership skills into our lower and middle income communities. Therefore, they should have by now put laws into place that would clinically filter those “I don’t need an education” kids out of the public and private educational sector all together. Believe me, Bush’s only concern is profit, by distributing billions of dollars in grant money to help eliminate, theoretically speaking, educating our black children all together but the only people to profit from this so call “voucher program” will be the (white) people of his administration whom he is financially connected and has already made then promises that they will receive these educational grants for the funding of those schools he will put in place. Remind you, it will take billions of dollars to get this project off the road and in the end it will be a hell of a profit growth for his comrades. Yes, I like the idea of my child being able to just go into another school district to attend school without vouchers being put in place to receive a better education because I do know that these so call vouchers will place additional limitations or restrictions that can only harm these children even more so…..If everybody took some time to oppose the voucher may be the children can get educational programs out their to support our views without restrictions be put in place like using a voucher as bait to deliver what our children sincerely need. I bet if it were election time Bush would have never came up with such an educational program. LOL…Hah

By Janinie

January 29, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

SET@2:22 ….I think I’m with you. Parents do not need to be involved in the daily operations of the school… it’s NOT parent involvement, but, as HSTEACHERTOO mentions, parent attitude toward education and their expectations of their children that gives real support to the school. I don’t think my parents ever set foot inside the school except to maybe, once in a while, attend some kind of performance.

By Justice for all

January 29, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

DB, I totally agree with your valid point however, the need for our children to have healthy but nurturing in quality and learning educational program in place would be exceptionally conducive to all of our black and white children in America. But many of us do not have a clue what that involves. However, after attending my child’s school and monitoring the classrooms at his school, I realized that there’s more than enough evidence for our so call government to by now become not only held responsible for upgrading and implementing current laws that are in place throughout this (GA) state’s Department of Family and Children Services that will hold parents accountable for pursuing and furthering their child’s education with certain learning disabilities, so the child can receive delegated structure in a nurturing environment. Who does our government hold responsible when children are not in school? Answer: Parents. So, if they hold us as parents accountable for our child’s school attendance then I stress we as parents need to delegate control factors as a necessity for our children to value the quality of education they are receiving in the black communities. If this government was focused on the improvement or quality of our children’s education which includes the poor and needy children of America with learning disabilities, they would stop depriving our black young children strategically, by replacing the mass of poor in quality, non-educated teachers as mentors with poor leadership skills into our lower and middle income communities. Therefore, they should have by now put laws into place that would clinically filter those “I don’t need an education” kids out of the public and private educational sector all together. Believe me, Bush’s only concern is profit, by distributing billions of dollars into grant money to help eliminate, theoretically speaking, educating our black children all together but the only people to profit from this so call “voucher program” will be the (white) people of his administration whom he has financial connections and has already made them promises that they will receive these educational grants for the funding of those schools he will put in place. Remind you, it will take billions of dollars to get this project off the road and in the end, it will be a hell of a profit growth for his comrades. Yes, I like the idea of my child being able to just go into another school district to attend school without vouchers being put in place to receive a better education in quality because I do know that these so call vouchers will place additional limitations or restrictions that can only harm these children even more so…..If everybody took some time to oppose the voucher, may be the children can get educational programs out their to support our views without restrictions being put in place like using a voucher as bait to deliver what our children sincerely need to succeed. I bet if it were election time Bush would have never came up with such an educational program. LOL…Hah

By catlady

January 29, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Okay, I give up. Who is this Rory? Is this some kind of practical joke, or did someone moderate this blog ex post facto?

• Has Chaney started a private school company?* Great one, JustMe!

By Tater

January 29, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

Justiceforall

Can you PLEASE - PLEASE refer me to a place that has the information you espouse. I tried to keep informed about politics and have never, ever, read about a profit growth for all of his comrades or profiting for his white people or ANYTHING else you spew.

Fellow posters, now do you understand why this country is in the shape we are in??

DB God Bless you my friend. My children also went to private school for a time and it was the best thing that ever happened. It was MY MONEY to spend on MY KIDS.

By HS Teacher Too

January 29, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

catlady, it’s a shame anyone addressed Rory at all; his post was almost instantly removed. It was about as antagonistic and racist as could be, and we all knew it would be gone in a second. His 15 minutes, however, live on in the comments that address him.

By Jason

January 29, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

I think we should instead spend the money earmarked for this program on mandatory contraception for low-income women. We need to stop the vicious cycle of listlessness and irresponsibility stoked by our welfare state.

By jim d

January 29, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

Jason,

If you’re going say something that stupid you could at least fake a stroke.

By JustMe

January 29, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

My dear Tater….

The US economy is good right now? Are you kidding me? We are the envy of the world? Yeah, right!

The US dollar has fallen in value like a rock. Heck, even the Canadian dollar is worth more than the US dollar. The Euro is much much stronger that the US dollar. China is laughing at us big time. In case you haven’t noticed, the stock market has been tanking since Jan 1 and we are now in a recession.

Here is an example… Where do you think that Bush will get the money for his bill to stimulate the US economy (read tax rebate)? The answer is by borrowing it from China. Why is he doing this? So that the US citizens will buy more goods to ‘stimulate the economy’. And what will we be buying with our few hundred dollar rebates? The answer is: goods made in China (TVs, stereos, appliances, etc.). So then, who’s economy will really be stimulated? Not ours. We (the US) will only be deeper in debt.

Bush is doing this solely to try to make our economy numbers ‘look good’ at least until he is out of office. That is the ONLY reason for this crazy approach. The next President (hopefully a Democrat) will have a large job to fix this horrible mess.

Who in the world do you think has benefited from what you describe as the mortgage crisis? The homeowners? No. The banks? No. It was the big businesses that homeowners bought goods and services from when they got a second mortgage for cash. Do you really think that no one saw this happening? Give me a break. The republicans that support big businesses knew exactly what was going on over the last few years.

People borrowed large amounts of money (to buy an over-priced house or to cash out their home equity) and spent it to boost corporate profits. The powers in DC (republicans) knew exactly that the ‘people’ were getting screwed over, but they were fine with that because their big business friends were the beneficiaries of this mess.

Our GA senators have been part of the ‘rubber stamp’ republican Congress that approved whatever Bush wanted. Yes, it is their fault also.

Hillary and Obama, as Democrats, have been the minority in Congress during most of the Bush years - you should know this. And, as you are hopefully aware, the minority party has little power to accomplish anything.

What has this to do with education? You tell me. I was responding to your post.

It has SOMETHING to do with education because Bush is wanting to implement this crazy program that will again help boost private corporate profits. These vouchers will go to private companys (private schools). It is taking money from the people (tax payers) and handing it over to private companys.

If there is a public school that is ‘failing’, here is a novel idea. Let’s find out the real reason it is ‘failing’ and fix that particular problem. My guess is that there is no single ‘fix’ for all failing schools. And, my guess is that one common denominator of failing schools would be low socio-econmic students that have absentee parents.

Find a way to ‘fix’ that likely common denominator and I would bet that those failing schools won’t be failing so much.

By RamblinLonghorn

January 29, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

…why not apply those millions to improving the quality of those schools they are supposed to be escaping from? That way all students benefit.

By JustMe

January 29, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

RamblinLonghorn -

You are so very right! Amen!!!

By Jason

January 29, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

“Jason, if you’re going say something that stupid you could at least fake a stroke.”

There’s nothing stupid about what I said. It’s extreme and will never happen, but it certainly deals with the ultimate source of most poverty in this country. What’s your argument that it doesn’t?

By SET

January 29, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

HS Teacher Too: Good Point. But I take the position that the schools took their job more seriously in the past, that being to raise the children in their programs up on the US economic and social class. Our modern schools clearly have decided that it is not their job to “tamper” with the “culture” of the students. Therefore students of all colors are not taught to speak standard English, are not taught standard deportment rules, are not taught to obey and respect authority (live within norms), etc. Then they are not taught to read and write.

So now we have 18 year olds in CA who are typically unable to make normal progress in employment, career education and society - unless their parents can place them in these areas of function. I submit that in 1950 the schools themselves were grooming and placing proletariat children and typically made sure they were ready for the next step in life by the time they graduated HS.

I want that again. I’d like the children of broken homes and single mothers fully prepared for the next step in life by age 18 regardless of how weak their home life was. I think we really can accomplish this just like we did before. For starters we would move the kids out of their comfort zones - it would not be a fun and happy process. They would have to earn every shred of approval they ever get at school.

What we teach now is that it’s ok to break dance on thin ice.

By D

January 29, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

Why not fix the school systems? Give the teaachers the salary and the resource they need to teach the students.

By Tater

January 29, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

JustMe

Wow… The expansion of the economy has been excellent. After the Dow falling to 8,920.70 in September 2001, it is now at 12,480. I’ll take it… Our economy is the BEST in the world. The reason that we have a deficit in trade with China is because WE decide to buy cheap instead of buying US products. If the people of this country decide to buy products from China then so be it. It is OUR money to begin with. How about using the rebates, like vouchers, to better ourselves and our families.

*People borrowed large amounts of money (to buy an over-priced house or to cash out their home equity) and spent it to boost corporate profits. *

Huh?? Boost corporate profits?? People bought houses they couldn’t afford, banks and mortgage companies agreed, but still gave people loans. Now we are in a mess that probably won’t be worked out till early next year. It is all about Personal Responsibility, something unheard of today.

If you really believe (which apparently you do) that the democrats will get you out of this funk, good luck. If you are a taxpayer prepared to have even more of your money taken away. If you want to say that’s fine, go ahead and send some money to the IRS. They will cash the check..

By Tater

January 29, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

Oh, by the way JustME, we have a DEMOCRATIC House and Senate… Might want to check the ole facts out before you make statements about the minority party.

Status quo. I encourage all parents to do whatever it takes, part-time jobs, selling stuff, having a 10 year old car, anything to send your kids to private schools. The education system in the metro area will only get worse…

By jim d

January 29, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

“apply those millions to improving the quality of those schools they are supposed to be escaping from”

Obviously someones not been paying attention.

We’ve been throwing good money after bad, investing more in education today than ever before and the results? Well y’all decide.

By catlady

January 29, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

Tater, glad your kids are in private schools. Keep it up.

Re: G.W. Bush and education. Since you may be new around this blog, perhaps you don’t know who profits wildly from NCLB stuff. Yep, FOBs, who publish the tests and the textbooks. Sort of an Eduhalliburton, if you will. As always, follow the money….

By jim d

January 29, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this

Tater,

you must be new to this blog. Facts aren’t one of JM’s strong suits.

By NICK

January 29, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

Just go back to segregating schools and refuse to allow illegals to “rape” the system and everything will work out fine.

By MGB

January 29, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this

I work in a district that has just been identified as a District Identified For Improvement (DIFI).  This district has been selling it’s students to suburban and private schools for many years.  The studnet enrollment is down by at least 10,000.  Schools are closing and consolidating all over the district. All of this is going on in the face of a neighborhood schools initiative, new provisions for reading teachers in failing schools, Math Teacher Leaders being hired for every school, and Literacy Coaches that have been in place for 5 years.  Why is this school district failing?  Is it because the vast majority of the students live in poverty?  Is it because many of the schools have an incredibly high mobility rate?  Is it because the students live in one of the most dangerous cities in the country?  Could it be related to the fact that parental involvement is dismally low in nearly every school?  Or is it that the teachers are just that bad?I worked in the suburban schools that surround my city.  Based what I have seen in those schools, I am going to say that those suburban teachers are not any better than the urban teachers.Throwing more money out of the district will not make the district or the private/suburban schools any better.  Going across town to another school only changes your proximity.  Don’t get me wrong, there are definitely bad inner city schools.  But the majority of the schools are doing everything in their power to provide students with a good education.

Perhaps if we threw a little more money at the union we could get them to stop protecting those teachers who are ineffective and remove them from their position.

By Blueja

January 29, 2008 9:12 PM | Link to this

The end of this debate could be brought about by one simple experiment. Take all the students from a “good school” and bus them to a “bad school”. The kids from that “bad school” will be sent to the “good school”. Wait nine or ten months and see what happens. I think everyone knows how that would turn out. Why do we kid ourselves?

By Attn: Clayton Parents

January 29, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

Laura,

Please address why the following accusation was in today’s paper, especially since it has since been retrated TWICE, by the person who made it. In case you (or anyone else) are wondering why I’m putting this on the blog, it’s because the Clayton reporters refuse to address this, even though the retraction was made at a public school board meeting with the educaction reporter in attendance.

As such, it is INEXCUSABLE that the AJC won’t print a retraction of the following:

“In a letter to SACS, board member Rod Johnson also accused Community Education Partners of giving $10 million to the Metro Association of Classroom Educators, a local teachers union headed by Haynes.”

A ten MILLION dollar bribe? To a LOCAL school board member? How stupid is that? Obviously VERY stupid, as Rod Johnson has retracted that statement TWICE, once at the board meeting with Megan Matteucci in attendance.

Can you please find out why she refuses to print the retraction?

By Attn: Clayton Parents

January 29, 2008 10:23 PM | Link to this

That first sentence should have read “…retracted TWICE.” Again if anybody is offended by this has being taken to the Get Schooled blog, it’s because the Clayton reporters have refused to respond to repeated inquiries from multiple people concerning a retraction, and thus taking it to a public forum will hopefully bring some pressure to bear on them to correct this.

And, after all this IS an education forum :)

By Janinie

January 29, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this

Ah-h Blueja @ 9:12 We do indeed! I think no one would deny thats this would be the BIG REVEAL! In fact, we suggested that to the Dekalb Biggies….that they choose a very high achieving school and a very low achieving school … and reassign the student bodies one to the other…a big trade. THat would be the only variable in the experiment….everything else would be untouched [teachers, administrations, cafeteria workers, custodians, etc] they laughed and said it will never happen!!!!! And, of course, it won’t.

By JustMe

January 29, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this

My dear dear Tater…

The Congress has only recently become Democrat as the majority party. Thusly, I said that republicans have been the primary majority party during most of the Bush terms - and that is a very true statement.

Sounds more like you need to take a reading comphrension course.

Also, it sounds like you ‘blame’ our economy mess on joe-American? The one that spends to ‘improve themselves?’ You, like so many republican ditto-heads, talk out of both sides of your mouth (read a$$). You want the tax rebate and then you want the ‘right to spend it as you like to improve your life’ which means to buy cheap China goods. However, this means a large budget deficit (read loans from China) and therefore makeing our economy worse. However, it is the “connecting the dots” like this that always seems to escape the spin-doctors of the ditto-head republicans.

In the meantime, they are ruinning the US - from our worldwide reputation to our very own economy to the future for our children to the environment of our planet. Why is it that you do not see this? I guess you enjoy looking through rose-colored glasses….

By JustMe

January 30, 2008 7:56 AM | Link to this

Janinie -

What an interesting experiment that would be, indeed!

I can see why a school system won’t want to do it - the cost of transportation alone would be very cost prohibitive.

However, my guess is that the initially successful school with the failing kids would quickly degrade to a failing school. And, the initially failing school with the successful kids would step up and become a successfull school.

Remember, the good parents of the successful kids would also be following those kids to that other school. And, IMHO, it is the kids and parents that define a school. The teachers and administrators will still try to do the best job that they can, in any case.

By Tater

January 30, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

JustMe

Apparently you honestly believe that the democrats are going to “fix” education. You need to read catlady’s comments. Its the Friends of Bill who have benefited, not the kids.

If you want to drink the Obama & Hilary kool-aid go ahead… Apparently from reading the above comments there are more people concerned about fixing the problem than bashing the repuplicans and Ditto-heads. By the way, I haven’t listened to Rush in about 4 years. I find Neal Boortz more interesting and knowledgeable about the facts about our failed education in metro Atlanta. Go ahead and give him a call or listen to his show. You will be blown out of the water….

By Tater

January 30, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

JustMe

Try to figure out who said this:

Reducing class size is one of the most critical investments we can make, not only in our children’s future, but in our teachers’ ability to succeed. Too many teachers have to spend more time keeping order, dealing with personal problems, trying to understand what one child out of 30 or 35 needs, than maintaining high academic standards for the entire classroom.

Thank God for President Bush and the No Child Left Behind Act. The President has tried, Congress has failed, to support this program. Amazing how the NEA gave Cynthia McKinney, yes the creator of the 9/11 was a plot by Bush, an A on its report card. More kool-aid anyone?

You may want to know that your hero Hilary said the above statement…

By Camille

January 30, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

It’s interesting how many people think that paying teachers more money will solve the problem or that the problems in the failing schools can really be easily fixed.

Paying teachers more money is not the solution. My son attends a private school in Gwinnett where his teacher told me that she makes less than a public school teacher, and she’s not a new teacher there. However, she wants to stay there, for various reasons. And, most of the teachers have been there since the school opened about 10 years ago. Granted, the environment there is different than the environment in a public school, but those teachers are doing just as good a job (if not better) for less money. So, I really don’t buy the theory that paying the teachers more is part of the solution.

Also, a major part of the fix for the failing schools is figuring out what needs to be done with the “failing” kids and how to either get them the help that they need (could be some kind of learning disabilities, mental issues, etc.) or get them to take more of an interest in their education (and consequently, future). At some point, some of these kids will weed themselves out by dropping out of the school system. So, the kids that can be saved should be the focus. The problem is that this would require additional money, and more than likely, a lot of it. So, I’m still not sure what a viable solution is for this.

The best thing is a reduction in class size. This is the main thing that my son’s school has over the public school. He can now get more individualized attention than he could get at the public school, so he is now thriving. However, this also entails additional money in that given the constant population increases in Georgia (and especially in Gwinnett county), schools would have to either be constantly added to or new schools would have to be constantly built to effectively implement the smaller classroom sizes. This plan is not working well now, and I’m not sure how well it would work in the future. Even when new schools are built or additions added to existing schools, they are usually overcrowded again within 2-3 years. Maybe another alternative is have 2 teachers in a class, versus just one. Just like they do with the kindergarten grades. This would still increase costs via salaries, but it may be an alternative.

My son is in a private school via the Georgia Special Needs Scholarship, basically a voucher program for special ed kids. While I understand the arguments against vouchers, I am extremely happy that my son was able to participate in this (especially since I had no idea that it had happened until I received a letter in the mail stating he was eligible). He’s doing much better than I even anticipated, as I was skeptical that he would do well. So, I’d have to lean towards being a supporter of vouchers. And, as mentioned before, I don’t think that the kids that don’t care about school now would be the ones trying to get out of the failing schools. It would be those kids that are unfortunately stuck in the poorly performing schools whose parents want better for them.

By just a teacher

January 30, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

I’m sure lots of people won’t like this, but I think one of the solutions to help fix the public schools would be to expand other public services. (Go ahead, stone me. Politically, I’m over here with Karl Marx; bring on the hate speech.) My reasoning is this: as other social services have been eroded, the public schools are, in many communities, the only site left for government aid. If women and children had health care and food, for example, several of the time consuming programs that are required for schools could be eliminated. I’m just saying.

I do understand the impulse to do away with all government assistance, the whole boot-straps mentality. But I’m not convinced that eliminating aid has done much to eliminate need. The public schools are the eternal whipping boy for all of these issues.

By WFC

January 30, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

NCLB is a giant hoax created by a man who has “skated” all of his life because of his name and family. To wit:

My son has a mother and father who both have Masters degrees and net worths of $500K plus. Exactly how is the son of a 17-year old girl HS drop-out with no father in sight REALLY going to compete with him? Magic?

By luvs2teach

January 30, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

catching up on my blogs…

jim d - I read about Michigan choice schools, and from what I understand, it’s not truly an open choice situation (not that that makes it bad). Districts could opt out and they don’t have to provide transportation (which would take away any choice for some parents. They can also limit the number of slots.

One thing I found very interesting is that schools cannot turn down a special ed applicant but they can turn down someone who was suspended or expelled.

Two things I couldn’t tell (and didn’t want to spend any more time looking for) were how the districts were organized (seemed to be by city/town, and not by county) and how strong the union is there.

By luvs2teach

January 30, 2008 5:13 PM | Link to this

Bush’s idea (which is a strange one coming from a Republican, seriously - that’s not a dis) will definitely help some - those few for whom an opportunity to get out of a lousy school environment will allow them to thrive.

Unfortunately, that’s not the majority, and that’s not the problem. The problem runs deeper than money can dig. It’s a sense of disconnect with the parts of society to which education is the key - there is no value to education because there’s no understanding of what it can do - it’s abstract - you can’t eat the promise of a better future or turn the lights on with Shakespeare or Calculus.

Make eduation concrete - tie it to something real - that will make a difference - but who wants to fund that?

By jim d

February 4, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

Hey L2T,

I found someone willing to pay for concrete education.

“McQualifications.”

By luvs2teach

February 4, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

Jim d - thanks - that’s awesome…seriously, I think it’s great. Of course Britain has a much more realistic approach to vocational training than we do here, IMHO.

BTW - you could possibly get HS credit for working as part of an internship program - wouldn’t it be great if McD’s (or whoever) and a local HS combined to make it something really worthwhile?

Thanks for the link!

By jim d

February 4, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

L2T,

You’re welcome. Alas, no plans for a program of this nature in the US.