Get Schooled

By Jeff

January 15, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

So much for LIMITED government….

Now Gov. Perdue wants to place government snoops in our schools so that the schools are even more invasive than they currently are.

By jim d

January 15, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Where would one that likes “summers off” apply for such a position?

By JustMe

January 15, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

How disappointing! The State is spending more money for this crap.

How about enforcing the truancy law already on the books. In other words, if a student is out of school skipping, arrest the parents!

But, no. We cannot do this for whatever reason. Instead, the State hires more employees to beg students (that likely don’t want to be there anyway) to come to school. Yeah, that’ll be real successful.

Honestly, in today’s world, we really shouldn’t make education a requirement. If parents don’t care enough to instill the importance of education to their own children, then we should not force it down their throat! Let those children be the ones to do the field work currently done by illegal immigrants from Mexico….. it seems that this is what those parents want anyway.

By Joy in Teaching

January 15, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

“The VIP Recruiter Program will help parents take a vested interest in their child’s education and remain involved throughout their child’s academic career.”

It is just sad that Big Brother feels that parents are so inadequate that they have to force schools to fill that gap.

I fear for our future. What’s next, requiring that kids attend school from the age of 3?

By DB

January 15, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

Omigod. $14.5 MILLION for what is basically a PTA buddy-system greeter?!? WHY??????????? Isn’t that what the administration is supposed to be doing, anyway — help parents navigate the public education system, foster relationships between parents and teachers, provide learning resources to use at home and track the family’s progress, among other duties. Sounds like the assistant principal or the counselor’s job — NOT a parent!!

If there’s $14.5 million for THIS program, why not just put it towards arresting the parents of kids who just aren’t making it to school for wahtever reason? We hold the hands of the kids far too long as it is — now we’re holding the parent’s hand, too?

By catlady

January 15, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

More nonsense where the government takes over the job of adults, many of whom are glad to hand over the responsibility. (Providing transportation, breakfast, lunch, counseling, nurses, social workers, graduation coaches …)Sounds like more made up work for the coaches or others who are “promoted” upstairs.

By jim d

January 15, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

Yo Cat, Lighten up —- I’m filling out an application :-)

By mmm

January 15, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

Can I scream: “Either fully fund or scrap QBE!!!”

We are trying to rub candy on a sow’s ear and thing we will think that will turn it into a silk purse.

By Gail

January 15, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

Wow, everybody!

When I first read this topic, I was thinking, “Finally, someone wants to address the issues with the parents.” Silly me, I was expecting all those bloggers who complain about the lack of parent involvement and accountability to finally be happy that someone in the educational hierarchy was at least TALKING about doing something with/for parents.

But instead, I see just about everyone lambasting the proposal.

Maybe I have a different perspective as a parent, but this just sounds like parent advocates on staff in schools. And parent advocates are a good thing.

By JustMe

January 15, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

Gail,

Your interpretation of this position is not how I read it at all. I do not see this person as a ‘parent advocate.’

It’s my understanding that this person will be tracking down students skipping school and find out why. They will then try to work with parents to remove any roadblocks that are preventing that child from attending school.

Therein lies the core problem. These roadblocks should be recognized and removed by the parents, not by the school. It is the parent’s job to ensure that their child is educated - this is the law. However, this proposal turns the tables and basically puts that responsibility on the backs of the schools. This is a mistake, IMHO. Schools already have enough to deal with (and don’t do a good enough job with the current list of responsibilities). Should schools really be involved when….

And, so on….

These are not issues that a school should be involved with. These are domestic problems that need to be resolved by the law, by child services, by other organizations, but NOT the school.

The school simply CANNOT be everything to everyone - regardless of what mindless Perdue thinks.

Parents should be parents. The school should educate. Let’s leave those roles and responsibilities as they should be and not mix them any more than they already are!

By catlady

January 15, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

Hey, jim, you might be a good candidate! However, as a teacher I am already doing or trying to do all those things, in addition to my teaching duties. I serve as an advocate for my students (sometimes against terrible odds, such as the tiers of learning crap), try to educate parents about important issues, call parents about absent kids, try to counsel with parents, take parental concerns to administration, call for help by the counselor, nurse, and social worker… (also, plan, teach, evaluate instruction, clean, look for coats and shoes for children, have various babysitting duties, serve on committees, come to innumerable meetings and programs, etc). So do many other teachers.

I am sorry but I agree with JustMe on this one. The school is already trying to solve too many “domestic” issues as it is. What is next: to hire someone to call parents and tell them it is time for the children to be in bed, to cook adequate meals for them, to pay the rent?

By jim d

January 15, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

Cat,

Let me be quite frank—I don’t want those responsibilities—-I was thinking of retirement and was thinking it would be a good paying fat job with decent benefits and summers off.—-you can continue as you do now, that’d be just fine with me. (grin)

By jim d

January 15, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Actually Cat, A job like that might be right up Jeff’s alley. Especially if he were allowed to carry a weapon to force parents into submission.

Whatta think jeff—-could we tag team this one?

By OldSchool

January 15, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Aww…c’mon folks! It sounds like a GREAT way to get yet another football coach on staff. And nobody knows how to smooze parents/communities than coaches.

Even the title “Recruiter” sounds football-ish.

By Lisa B.

January 15, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

If the government thinks parents are so inadequete that they need all this help, why doesn’t the government just offer parents the opportunity to drop babies off at school on the way home from the maternity ward?

By ironmaiden

January 15, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

Did Sonny work for the Corps of Engineers in a past life?? This idea is almost as brilliant as his last solution. Kudos to our wonderfully effective MIDDLE SCHOOL Graduation Coach for absorbing 2 class periods next week to talk to the 6th-graders about career choices. Hopefully, they’ll be a few jobs left by then. Wonder what she does the rest of the year?

By Jeff

January 15, 2008 7:13 PM | Link to this

jim:

Suprisingly, I’m going to have to turn down this opportunity to bust heads. I hold as a matter of principle that the government has ZERO business doing this, and it wouldn’t be right for me to accept a position I feel is wrong to begin with.

Besides, putting a gun in my hand and telling me to go after your typical soccer mom is like using a nuclear weapon on an ant hill. :P

By fedup

January 15, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

If they don’t want to come let them stay at home, but don’t subsidized their lazy behinds. The kids and parents that care will be better off in the long run.

By HS Teacher Too

January 15, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this

Two words:

truant officer

I’m with JustMe on this one.

By catlady

January 15, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

jim and Jeff—I have laughed for quite a while with the picture of Jeff in this job! It has made my evening, just thinking about it! (Shows what a quiet life I lead P )

Actually, Jeff, is my math right? Does this figure out to about $26,000 per employee? Now, who is gonna do that?

Like many other of these ill-conceived programs, we have persons/programs/laws in place to take care of the problem, IF THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IS WILLING TO USE IT! When can we get some real-world help? (Silly things like enforcing the laws/rules)

By catlady

January 15, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

Maybe someone should GO FISH.

By V for Vendetta

January 15, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

BOLLOCKS! I’m seriously thinking of giving up hope. With any more of Perdue’s suggestions, I just might go off my nut (more so). We don’t need to force the truants back into school. We don’t need to force the parents to send them. We need to GET RID OF THEM. Seriously, if a student, parent, guardian, respectable pet, aunt, uncle, or grandparent can’t understand the value of a child’s education, FORGET THEM!

We can pretend, as I’ve said before, that we’ll find some sort of “diamond in the rough”, so we should help get these kids to school. BS. Nature and nurture work together, but DNA don’t mean SQUAT when you have bums for parents. They ain’t pleasant, but thems the rules.

Any parent I’ve had to harass, track down, or spam just to get a response out of was typically not worth the air they were breathing. Guess what? The apple didn’t fall far from the tree, either.

By Lee

January 16, 2008 5:13 AM | Link to this

According to press materials, the $14.25 million program would place a “VIP recruiter” in 551 poorly attended…schools.

There is only one reason why this proposal is being mentioned:

The attendance provisions of NCLB.

By Jeff

January 16, 2008 6:02 AM | Link to this

cat:

Yeah, I just did the calculation and came up with $25,862 per position.

Now, that doesn’t SEEM like much, right?

But remember two factors:

A) This program is designed for soccer moms. They don’t NEED the extra money, but maybe they want to take a vaycay to Europe next year and figure the extra cashola would help.

B) In poor and rural areas, $26K is a LOT of money. Heck, had I actually LIVED in Randolph, I would have been in the top 10% of the RICHEST people in the county - on a first year teacher’s salary!

BTW: Glad we could make ya laugh!

By WFC

January 16, 2008 6:26 AM | Link to this

Damn! Stupid me! I managed to get my son to school for twelve years straight years! Of course, I wasn’t the “sainted single mom” who spread for every slickster who wandered down the road. Yeah, let’s hire more treuant officers with a gentle touch! The end is near!

By JustMe

January 16, 2008 7:53 AM | Link to this

I can only hope (silly me!) that Perdue or one of his staff members read this blog to get a ‘reality check’ on his crazy proposal(s).

Over $14 million from the State??? Think about how much needed school equipment could be purchased! Gee - my school might even be able to afford to fix the heat, or at least replace the broken window blinds!

By Jesse's Girl

January 16, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this

Don’t school districts have a person in their offices that actually has this job? Now perhaps each district office can hire an assistant who can send off warning letters to parents who have students with many unexcused absenses….I know they must be backed up with trying to follow up with all things. This idea as a whole is not an evil one. But I think it does need some tweeking. Kids do need to be in school and teachers have enough on their dern plates! They cannot be effective educators if they also have to call someone’s home and argue with a parent. I do take issue with some the comments on “soccer moms”….someone has a chip. But yes…you are right. This position would be good for a stay at home mom who needs/wants a little extra money. There is no crime in that….not even in how it is spent.

By FCM

January 16, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

If they showed up on my door I would call the cops…it’s called trespass.

Seriously, Big Brother has his/her nose in everything….when are going to be declared a communist state?

Remind me again when he is up for ‘re-election’ so I can make sure to work whichever campaign is against him?

By FCM

January 16, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this

If they showed up on my door I would call the cops…it’s called trespass.

Seriously, Big Brother has his/her nose in everything….when are going to be declared a communist state?

Remind me again when he is up for ‘re-election’ so I can make sure to work whichever campaign is against him?

JG—Yes there is a ‘Data Clerk’ who keeps track of the grades, immunization forms, and attendance records in most of the Fulton Schools.

By teach1

January 16, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

What is the job of school counselors in the school system? Are they not already liasons? I would love to get someone who could address these issues but why can’t this job be covered by someone already in the position to do it?

By Jeff

January 16, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

FCM:

I THINK GA has term limits on the Governor similar to those on POTUS.

I could be wrong though, but I’ve heard that Perdue CAN’T seek another term.

By Gail

January 16, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

The recruiter would help parents navigate the public education system, foster relationships between parents and teachers, provide learning resources to use at home and track the family’s progress, among other duties.

I can’t be the only person who read this part of Bridget’s topic. Why is everyone focusing just on the attendance issue? I agree with the posters who’ve said we already have truant officers; they should be allowed to enforce the attendance rules.

These VIPs should be helping the parents deal with and support their kids’ education issues, not their home lives.

By Jeff

January 16, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

Gail:

In either case - attendance or what you said above - it is even more unwarranted government intrusion into our private lives.

Government CANNOT save us from ourselves, nor is it government’s job to even try.

By FCM

January 16, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Jeff, you are probably right…I really hadn’t recalled that…at any rate can he leave tomorrow? hehehe

JG—I don’t know about all the schools, but around here we have a ‘Data Specialist’ who makes sure that grades, immunization, and attendance is tracked. They call the parents or write the parents when various ‘problems’ seem to be occurring.

I do agree with Perdue that NOTHING makes as a big a difference in a child’s life as an active Parent. However, he is going about it all wrong. Ex: on little one on the soccer team’s parents are going through a very rough divorce. Its killing 2 families. She sees me as an involved/stable Mom (hers is involved too) and tends to gravitate toward me during practice and games. I finally told her Mom not worry about it, it seems to be natural. My own child gravitated toward a particular adult during my divorce….It is too much to expect that every parent can do it all…at best we can do most. It is playing to our individual talents that will help the schools….for instance there are parents who can send in supplies/crafts but not be there to put it together, but Billy’s grandpa is retired and would love to come do a project….great 2 involved adults made that happen. (oh wait that was a tangent sorry).

Anyway, adding more layers of snooping and red tape don’t help. I am not happy my taxes are going to this (my children have ‘perfect’ attendance though). I do think some areas of the various communities have a large problem with this issue. I do think more community envolvement would help…loitering groups are a public problem….but I just don’t see this as the solution. It doesn’t address the problem…

By Gail

January 16, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

Just Me: You said, “It is the parent’s job to ensure that their child is educated - this is the law. “

Actually, I don’t think this is the law. I think the law says you have to send your kid to school from age 6-16. And maybe that’s the problem.

I’m not a big fan of government intrusion into our lives, but a lot of parents are abiding by the attendance law, but not taking on their full responsibility for making sure their children are educated which involves a lot more than drop off and pickup.

There are a lot of reasons for this, but I think one that is often overlooked has to deal with how intimidated some parents are by the school administration, teachers and staff. They don’t know how to approach teachers in a constructive way to help solve their children’s learning problems or behavior issues or whatever. They get defensive and aggressive or they check out and don’t do anything. I think a parent advocate could help with this a lot.

And before anyone starts, Yes, I know there are some whack parents out there.

By Gail

January 16, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

Hi, Jeff

I am all for freedom from government. I can afford to be because I take care of my responsibilities. Unfortunately, I am increasingly affected by the people in our society who refuse to take care of theirs.

Either we are going to have to step up as individuals and change the direction we’re heading in, or the government is going to have to. If nobody does anything, we are headed for a serious train wreck.

And for the record, I don’t see parents being forced to accept the help of the VIP recruiter.

By Jeff

January 16, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

FCM:

The best thing we can do as a society at this point at the ballot box is to decide that if a person has either D or R beside their name, they will NOT get our vote.

The ONLY exception being those RARE people who happen to have one of those letters beside their name but genuinely support LIMITED government.

BTW: The mess going on in the State Capitol right now is the beginnings of the Governor’s race in 2010. Richardson and Cagle are both starting to stake out their territory, though there may be more players that rise up over the next couple of years as well. (I’ve heard Isakson may make a run for it. Haven’t heard too much rumblings from the other side of the aisle yet though.)

By Jeff

January 16, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

Gail:

You are only affected by them because the Government forces you to be by robbing you of your hard earned money to support them.

When Individual Liberty and Personal Responsibility reigned supreme, we didn’t have NEAR the problems we see now.

By JustMe

January 16, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

Gail -

Since this blog is about attendence, I wrote what I wrote concerning the law with that in mind.

In fact, the law states that if they do not send their kids to school, the parents can be jailed. However, the school administrators are too spineless to ever enforce such a law. Therefore, students skip school and don’t learn and those parents evidently don’t care - nothing happens except that the school is penalized due to NCLB.

In other words, the school is being required to do the job of the parents. Is that really what you (we) want?

By Ernest

January 16, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Thought provoking comments as usual from the GetSchooled bloggers! Let’s look at this from another perspective based on this comment, And he hopes it also will help decrease middle and high school drop out rates.

I see this as an acknowledgement our drop out rates have a negative economic impact on our state. This is an attempt to provide additional resources to help address that. GA still has some competitive advantages with its good weather and affordable land (though we’ve got to do something immediately about our water usage). Business are looking at the ‘products’ we turn out from our public education system. Are we providing the kind of educated workforce needed to compete in this growing global economy? These perceptions will impact our ability to attract businesses in the future. I’m guessing the hope is by investing in this, we should see a return in future years.

Several posters raise legitimate points about this ‘growing government’ and ‘Big Brother’. Looking at this from a ‘class’ standpoint, it can be understood that some can’t fathom that there are families that don’t know how to navigate through the maze known as the school system. It may have to do with our own personal situations and value systems we have. I am surprised that there are many, especially in the lower socioeconomic classes, that don’t have an idea how to be involved or be a good advocate. We could say, They should not have had the children in the first place if they didn’t know how to raise them, however the children are here. If this can help ‘create’ better citizens and simultaneously help with graduation rates, the investment needed may seem minimal.

By Gail

January 16, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

Jeff:

Believe me, it’s not just the taxes that affect me. This is a quality of life issue. Society is decaying around us and there are so many more negative images now that my children have to grow up with than I ever did. I agree with your last statement about liberty and responsibility.

So many things in society seem to play to the basest. I’m a dreamer, but I’d still like to live in a country where noble ideas and integrity play a larger role than whether or not Flavor Flav can get a hookup.

By catlady

January 16, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

Jeff, Actually, the $26,000 would have to cover bennies too, so it really is a near-minimum wage job, as bennies can cost a quarter to a third of the pay. Sounds just right for a coach’s wife!

And, yeah, there is more to it than attendance. The thing is, we already have teachers begging to have parents in the loop—to show up or JUST ANSWER THE DANGED PHONE! We have counselors, nurses, social workers to help parents with out of school issues that impact student learning.

By Gail

January 16, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

Just Me

I think we have a fundamental difference about the topic of this blog. I don’t see this as strictly being about attendance; even if it is, I still see a parent advocate in schools as an opportunity to help parents and schools in other ways.

As far as attendance goes, I’m a big proponent of parental responsibility. Frankly, if the law says parents go to jail for not sending their kids to school, I think it should be enforced. If someone (who?) decided school attendance was important enough to have jail time as a consequence of not adhering to the law, “they” should be enforcing it. Whoever “they” is.

I think schools have enough on their plates without adding this policing aspect, but obviously they would have to be involved since they are the ones with the attendance information. By the way, who do truant officers “belong to”? And why isn’t this already their job?

By JustMe

January 16, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

Ernest -

I understand your point.

But, cannot the same objective you mentioned be accomplished by simply enforcing the turency law already on the books as opposed to spending an additional $14 million to add another layer?????

I thought (evidently in error) that republicans like Perdue wanted to decrease government spending and decrease government intervention in our lives. Wait a sec - that was the ‘old’ republicans. It seems that these ‘new’ republicans have become the ‘old’ democrats that spend and intrude.

By catlady

January 16, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

If you want to decrease the dropout rates, first ensure that students going to middle school have adequate skills. CRCT was supposed to do that, but it is a minimal test, and when students fail they still go on to the next grade. Until that happens, nothing else you do will matter much for most of the future dropouts.

Then there are students who have adequate skills but no guiding force in their lives. Unless you plan to adopt them, that will not change either.

I can predict pretty accurately in 3rd grade who will finish high school. Sad but true.

By FCM

January 16, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Jeff, I think you have seen enough of my posts to know I am a libertarian. I will not automatically rule out a D or an R but I will not automatically vote for them. I think I did a straight ticket once—the first time I ever voted.

Gail, you may be on to something about intimidation of the school personnel on the parents. Teachers want to treat parents like students, I have even met some who insist on being addressed as Mr or Ms whomever. WTH?

My overall experience with school personnel BEYOND the immediate teacher is that most of them do not have a clue.

By Ernest

January 16, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

JustMe, you are correct, enforcement of the existing laws would help with truancy issues. There is a cost associated with that also in possibly hiring more truancy officers/workers and perhaps taking children out of their current environment while allowing the legal system to address their guardians. I see this proposal at least an attempt to keep the family unit together. Again, we could rightfully say that some children need to be removed from their current environment but what would we do with them?

I’m sure you see my overall point, look at this as an economic issue also. I would like to see a cost comparison of an investment in enforcing existing laws versus this proposal to help us determine if the possible return of either is worth it.

By Jeff

January 16, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

FCM:

When teaching (K12), I have a standard rule that around the kids, I am Mr. Jeff. When the kids aint around, I’m Jeff.

In the post-K12 arena, I am Prof Jeff in the classroom and in my office, Jeff as soon as we step out of the door.

By JustMe

January 16, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Ernest,

If the truency law doesn’t work or is not enforced, then let’s remove it from the books. I hate it when ‘laws’ exist but are meaningless.

By teach1

January 16, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

Again I ask…. What is the job of a school counselor????? I thought ALL of these issues fell into their job discription!

By jim d

January 16, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

Gail,

Where can we find those rose colored glasses you’re wearing?

VIP’s advocating for parents? Did I understand that right?

hmmm, who signs their paycheck? looks like another fluff job to me that will just instill one more layer of crap a parent will have to shovel through to get anything done. Now that’s sure to help.

By teach1

January 16, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

Oh now the type monster got me… “description”

By JustMe

January 16, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

teach1 - silly you! Don’t you know that these days the counselor only works on a students class schedule?

All of the other responsibilities that counselors used to do has been shoved onto teachers, into the new ‘graduation’ coach, and now also into this proposed “VIP recruiter.”

Wonder how I can become certified to be a counselor? Sounds like it’s a cushy job now…..

By Gail

January 16, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

jim d

There are parent advocates already out there and amazingly, some of them already work for the school system. I have talked to a couple of them about issues in the past and found them very helpful.

Again, let me say that I do not see the role of these VIPs as coercive, mandatory, etc. I think they should be there to assist parents, help them feel more comfortable dealing with school personnel and asserting their rights as parents.

My experience has been that when a parent is willing to work with a teacher, principal, etc., that same teacher, principal steps up to work together for the good of the student. That’s what we should all be about, the GOOD OF THE STUDENT.

Gee, jim d, I thought I was a cynic. :)

By FCM

January 16, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

Jeff you mean if my child was in your class (non-colligate—no helicopter) I would have to address you as Mr Jeff? I would not be Ms. CM I would be F…I am very clear on that with the teachers…They are adults and should address me the way adults not their students would. Where the teacher sits when conferring with me is important. I bother teachers because I do not sit across a desk from them. I sit to the side….Psychologically there is power in breaking through the Mr/Ms or seating arrangement.

However, I email with my children’s teachers as often as necessary….Trust me, they are very willing to email me over anything that goes on too.

I often feel more like a refree between my child and the teacher than a true partner in their education. For ex. Child walks backward in the hall, so teacher emails to ask me to make child stop. Hello? I am not there when child is doing this, find something that can be done immediately…everyone else gets to read you sit with your head on your desk thinking about the proper way to walk in a hall. You know what that was met with? “The state won’t let us do that.”

I finally went over the schools head to the State found out the school could do that…2 times later child walked like a normal person in the hall…go figure.

By Teacher, Too

January 16, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

I prefer to be called by Miss . I give the respect to my students’ parents by calling them Mr. __ or Mrs. ____. Why is that intimidating to parents? I think we, as a society, have become too informal. We see that in the way people dress, the way people speak to each other, and the way children treat adults.

By teach1

January 16, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

If counselors are only supposed to do schedules, why do we have 2 full time and 1 part time for our PRIMARY school of 1000? We do not schedule!

By Jeff

January 16, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

FCM:

Only if the kids are around do I require the ‘Mr’. Otherwise, casualness rules. Matter of fact, I always told the kids “As soon as you get your HS diploma, I’m ‘Jeff’. Until then, I’m ‘Mr. Jeff’.”

Heck, on the days the kids aint there at all, you’re FAR more likely to find me in shorts and a tshirt than my normal slacks and polos.

Oh, and I never did the ‘teacher desk/ student desk’ thing with parents. I would either stand (decently imposing enough, when I want it to be) or sit casually on top of one of the desks (not in the seat).

By Janine

January 16, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

Catlady’s point @ 11:13 If you want to decrease the dropout rates, first ensure that students going to middle school have adequate skills. is absolutely the key to reducing the drop out rate. No

From K-8, at least in my district, the kids are ..let’s see , what do they call it, taught at their own level with the teacher , let’s see differentiating instruction!!! And, moved right along to the next grade whether or not they can read or write AND whether or not the pass the woefully inadequate CRCT that our lovelies at the state dept. developed.

No * Very Important Parent (VIP, for short) Recruiter program* is going to make any significant difference if the student is not required to meet adequate criteria for even getting to middle school! The 9th grade is where the drop outs begin in earnest. IMHO that’s where the student really has to be able to read and write a coherent sentence in order to pass.

By jim d

January 16, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

Gail,

I guess my problem (or advantage) is that I can and have worked directly with teachers and administrators and have no difficulty in making my thoughts known—working together to resolve an issue. I just fail to understand how any parent could feel intimidated although I have seen a few folks attempt to intimidate so I’d just go away. (It didn’t happen)

Bottom line—I don’t see anyway this is going to improve education. Where I can see ways to improve it with the funds that might make a difference.(such as subsidizing new school construction, providing teachers with more educational opportunities or just giving them a few more classroom supplies)

By catlady

January 16, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this

Parents who care can always find someone to help, but sometimes, as with service at Walmart, it takes persistence. If your child and their education is most important, I think you will stick with it. I know parents are intimidated sometimes; I have even seen school officials try to climb up on their high horses. It has not been teachers I have seen do it, however, but administrators. (Parenthetical note to parents: we teachers face the same thing! Administrators with shaky credentials and limited experience telling us what is best for the child! Many teachers cave in to this, due to the retaliation factor we have discussed many times here before—Siberia duty, etc) I don’t really think having a paid, especially at the proposed rate, “advocate” is what is needed. PARENTS (and teachers) are and should be the advocates, not “recruiters” or “graduation coaches.”

By catlady

January 16, 2008 7:43 PM | Link to this

Parents who care can always find someone to help, but sometimes, as with service at Walmart, it takes persistence. If your child and their education is most important, I think you will stick with it. I know parents are intimidated sometimes; I have even seen school officials try to climb up on their high horses. It has not been teachers I have seen do it, however, but administrators. (Parenthetical note to parents: we teachers face the same thing! Administrators with shaky credentials and limited experience telling us what is best for the child! Many teachers cave in to this, due to the retaliation factor we have discussed many times here before—Siberia duty, etc) I don’t really think having a paid, especially at the proposed rate, “advocate” is what is needed. PARENTS (and teachers) are and should be the advocates, not “recruiters” or “graduation coaches.”

By jim d

January 17, 2008 7:46 AM | Link to this

Yeah Cat,

I recall once asking for a teacher parent conference to dicuss my childs problems in a particular class. When I showed up I had a committee made up of the teacher, 2 conselors a VP and the Principal herself setting across the table.

I found this rather humorous but couild see how some parents might have felt intimidated.

By Ernest

January 17, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

JustMe, again I agree with you. There are many laws on the books that are not fully enforced, the truancy laws being a good example.

Back to the topic, assuming a loaded salary of 50K, the proposed investment would fund approximately 285 positions. If we could could up with measurable criteria, i.e. increased number of parent/teacher meetings, improved student achievement, etc., it is probably worth trying for at least one year. Make it renewable each year if certain criteria are met. If successful, the long term benefits could be significant.

By Gail

January 17, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

jim d and Catlady

Some of what I meant about intimidated parents has to do with a lack of knowledge on the parent’s part about how interactions between the teacher/principal and parent should go. Some parents I know assume that the relationship is adversarial and therefore approach a parent/teacher conference from a completely different perspective.

My parents were very active in PTA, etc. when I was in school, so I didn’t bring a “grudge” when my kids started school. You might be surprised at how many adults harbor negative feelings about teachers and school in general. I think a lot of parents have a negative approach and their negative attitude is confirmed when they run into a teacher who acts like parents and teachers are not on the same side. Then they see the teachers who are easier to get along with as the exception rather than the rule, or worse, a pushover that they try to run over.

By jim d

January 17, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this

Gail,

My job as a parent is foremost to be my childs advocate. Doing so requires being informed. What I’ve found disturbing in the past is when I find a teacher that has problems in communicating with a parent and who may become offensive when a parent attempts to maintain a level of involvement.

But then too I’ve seen parents whose children can do no wrong and become agitated with teachers.

I believe either of these can be considered intimidating. In the scenario I mentioned, the room was stacked with administrative staff because of my then political involvement in education. It was obviously done to a)intimidate and b) to provide staff who were capable of avoiding any question I might have. Basically I think they may have feared someone would say something they shouldn’t and in that regard perhaps they were all there to intimidate each other?

By jim d

January 17, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

Ernest,

The median salary for a teacher in the Metro area is a bit over $50,000 a year.

So we must weigh which might do the most good, Hiring a teacher or paying someone to set around? Personally, I lean towards hiring another educator and reducing class sizes.

By Gail

January 17, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

jim d

I don’t disagree with you. I think there’s a problem with the relationships between teachers and parents because of a lack of communication (at least to parents) about what the relationship should be. I have encountered many good teachers who encourage parents to contact them with any issues or questions, but it just seems like a lot of parents never do. For some reason, parents hesitate. I think they hesitate because the boundaries and rules of the teacher/parent relationship are unclear to a lot of parents.

I think this new VIP could offer a solution to that problem. Maybe if the parents and teachers could get together, we could get rid of some of these problem people in education, be they administrators, school superintendent, or legislator.

By Ernest

January 17, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

JimD:

I ‘assumed’ a salary in the mid to upper 30’s based on the job description. Even that seems generous based on the requirements we are aware of.

I’d prefer hiring additional educators also however when you consider the investment necessary for that, expecially in ‘high need’ schools, I believe most taxpayers would choke when they saw that number. Again, this could yield greater returns for the size of this investment if 2-3 more parents per grade level at a school became more engaged. Higher levels of parental involvement ‘could’ reduce the need for more educators thus a long term savings on expenses.

By JustMe

January 17, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

jd and Gail…

As a teacher, I love involved parents - at least when they are sincere in their efforts to help education their child. However, when a parent defines their involvement as ‘fighting to ensure that their child gets an A’ then I do have problems.

You might think that one follows another, but alas, this is not always the case. Some parents seem to not care if their child learns, as long as their child gets that A.

And yes, it does agitated me when parents insist that their child can ‘do no wrong.’ I have literally been forced in a corner and video taped their child in my room to ‘prove’ their child’s behavior. It is a shame that a professional adult’s word (the teacher) can mean less than a child’s in the eyes of the parent.

By jim d

January 17, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this

Gail,

And I don’t disagree with you.

Here’s a recent development though, at the school my child attends, that I find disturbing.

We are 3 weeks into the second semester and We’ve sent an email to all of my childs teachers informing them of our email adress, asking that they continue to send weekly grade reports (SOP at this school until now). To date we have recieved neither the first grade report nor have we even recieved an acknowledgement from any (save one) teacher that they had recieved our email.

Bottom line here is that we as parents have provided the means for an open and continuous communications link and the teachers don’t seem to give a damn. Which makes our job of supporting his teachers difficult at best since they have even failed to send a syllabus for their classes.

By jim d

January 17, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

JM,

The flip side of that is that when P/T conferences are being scheduled I’ve been informed I didn’t need to schedule one since the kid is doing so well. I don’t look at it that way. It is my job to know the teacher and to form a bond so the child understands we (teacher & parent) are working towards the same ends. In 13 years I haven’t missed one even if it meant flying back in, and I can proudly say that in that time I’ve only requested one that wasn’t scheduled, that being to try to determine why a catagorized gifted students grade dropped to an uncharacteristic level. An open dialogue did allow us to resolve the issues in that instance.

By jim d

January 17, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

Yo JM,

I’m not sure we’ve ever determined your teaching specialty. But I understand that the LaGrange Academy is conducting a search for a Spanish teacher.

By Teacher, Too

January 17, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

Hey jim d.- Come over to Cobb County. We have I-Parent— you can check your child’s grades any time you want.

(Although there are those teacher’s who don’t update weekly, as most principal’s request them to do.)

I will say that I value my students’ parents. When they e-mail me, I try to respond the same day. I don’t understand why some teachers don’t make the effort to foster a positive relationships with the parents. When teachers don’t respond to e-mails, that just creates more animosity.

Now, having said that. I have asked my admins to step in with one or two parents over the years. I will not accept verbal abuse from a parent (and I have been verbally abused on the telephone and in person). Once that happens, I will no longer communicate directly with that parent. I have an admin facilitate any communication.

By teach1

January 17, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

I just have to stick with the counselor role in the VIP position.

I work at a elementary school of 1100. We have 2 full time and 1 part time counselor. They have NO classes to schedule. Everything listed as a duty for the VIP falls into the counselor job description.

If the VIP thing goes through, I would be very concerned if I was a school counselor because I know my job is being duplicated.

By catlady

January 17, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

I have seen what recent posters have noted, and it is counterproductive for the students in the short and long run.

Some of my colleagues do not call parents or ask them in. Now, I know mostly why: because the request is usually ignored. This is where I would like our principal to step in and call the parent and insist on the meeting. I’d also like to meet with parents proactively. Example: We have hundreds of EIP students at our school. We should have mandatory individual or small group meetings at the beginning of school to be sure their parents know they are significantly behind in their skills, and to delineate what the school is going to do about assisting the child, and what the parent should do to help.

I call parents pretty freely, and I call about good things as well as concerns. Of course, first I work with the child to see if the issue can be resolved. If I can be seen as on the kid’s side (as I am), parents will frequently work with me. The adversarial stuff (which we teachers get a lot of) needs to be put to rest, and sometimes it takes above and beyond (and proactive) effort by the teacher to do so.

Anytime I have gotten a parent to come and observe, it has straightened things out immediately, but that rarely happens.

My Latino parents (while some of the men may harbor some bias against women in authority) have been universally supportive of me and my efforts, and thankful for the interest I have in their children. At our school, they truly are the ones who have an excuse not to understand how to approach school problems, so I do frequent, well-attended parent meetings to address this. And our evening programs for ALL parents are usually half Latino in attendance, altho the kids make up less than 20 percent of our school. I wish all our “American’ parents, who have CERTAINLY had more experience with education and dealing with the system, would follow the lead of the illegal immigrant parents at our school.

Here is the thing: you gotta put yourself out there for your children. No excuses. As jim d pointed out, sometimes it is tough. As a parent, however, you can do no less!

By jim d

January 17, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

Teacher too,

:”$%#@!^%&*, but that’s not directed at you. :-)

By jim d

January 17, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

Teach too,

Let me say communications in GCPS has been pretty good till now and it just occured to me that they did have some issues with computers that delayed report cards for a week or so.

Perhaps I should re-send.

THANKS.

By JustMe

January 17, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

jim d -

IMHO, you are putting all of the burden of communication onto the teachers. Basically, you seem to have said (or at least what the teacher likely heard): “here is my email address, now I will sit on my throne and you must send to me weekly reports in addition to any other things that I must know.”

That is not good parental involvement. You are not “supporting” the teachers, you are burdening the teachers. I would guess that the teachers at that school have already gossiped about you and you are labeled as a ‘trouble parent.’

At my school, progress reports are sent every three weeks via the student. All parents should expect that from their student (even though some parents will claim that they never heard of such a thing). In addition, parents can view real time grades per class for their child via the internet. That is MORE than enough effort by the school to inform you. It is completely unreasonable for you to expect teachers to email you every day or every week for an update. Do you know how many students a single teacher has in a given day? Do you really think that a teacher has the time (or energy) to send out individual emails to every parent like that? Get real!

If you are sincere in supporting the teacher and in having honest communication, here is a suggestion: make an appointment with the teacher and make a visit. Introduce yourself and ask if there is anything that the teacher needs for the classroom. Ask if there is anything that you can be doing at home to help your childs education. Ask if you can volunteer to help in the classroom. Any and all of these ideas would be welcomed with open arms by the teacher!

Please understand that there are too many parents that believe that “involvement” in education means:

By jim d

January 17, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

Oh Dear JM, there you go again.

SOP = Standard operating procedure.

Teachers have historically sent home their syllabus requesting a signature and an email address and have sent weekly reports.

I find it rather difficult to support something if I’m not aware of what it is I’m supposed to be supporting (please see definition of syllabus at webster.com)

We were simply being proactive by sending them our email address via electronic media making their job easier by just saving it rather than having to enter it.

Please note that this is exactly what we have been requested to do by many teachers in the past.

So why don’t you just bite me!

By JustMe

January 17, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

jd -

I don’t bite anyone.

I’ve never heard of any school that sends weekly progress reports. Maybe that school does, but that is a huge burden (cost wise, effort wise, etc.). As I said, my school sends progress reports once every 3 weeks.

The syllabus is usually sent home the first week (sometimes the first day) with the student. If there is a brand new teacher, they may be a bit behind and don’t do it that early.

Just because ‘other teachers have felt compelled to send you a personalized email every week as an update’ in the past, don’t expect that from all teachers. IMHO, those teachers went way beyond the extra mile for your benefit. I would categorically refuse to ever do that for any parent!

I am aware of one student with an IEP that required the teacher to send an update email every day to the parent. Luckily, I never had to teach that student!

By Gail

January 17, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

Okay, JD and JM Let’s remain civil.
Sorry, jim d (fellow parent), but I’m going to have to go with JustMe on this one.

I haven’t gotten weekly reports for either one of my children since the early elementary grades, and one is special ed. Starting in middle school, both of my children received syllabi during the first week of school. They received periodic progress reports (every three weeks sounds about right). Also, my kids both (middle and high) had highly structured notebooks that sometimes included grade sheet printouts. I know my high schooler was able to get a printout of all her grades just about anytime by asking the teacher.

Now for email — I have had very disparate amounts of success with teachers and emails. Some teachers live by email and we used that to communicate all the time. Others will use email, but they’re sporadic so I might email on Monday and not hear anything back until Friday which is okay if I don’t need an immediate answer, but usually doesn’t work for me. I have also dealt with teachers who tell me upfront that they are “computer challenged”, but those teachers are usually very good about responding to messages left for them in the office. Unless your teacher is young or computer savvy, I wouldn’t expect much email communication. It seems high school teachers may use email more because they have older, more independent children who are probably more computer savvy themselves.

By catlady

January 17, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this

I am always glad to communicate with parents on a weekly basis if needed, altho if many parents requested it the notes would be very, very short :) I would be thrilled to do this for kids who were having academic/behavioral shortfalls. For the kid who is doing well, the every 4 week progress report seems good to me. For a kid who has hit a bump and needs some intensive accountability, a short term weekly report is frequently employed until the child is on track and understands that his parents and teachers are on top of it and will hold him to it. Our system also has the means for parents to check on their child’s grades via the computer. I know a few parents who use it, but no idea how widespread it is.

Occasionally, for a very behaviorally disturbed child, we will do a daily, class by class accounting. It is rather time-consuming, however, and reserved usually for special ed or pre special ed kids.

As a parent, I made an appointment in the first month of school to reintroduce myself (I had been to open house or preview) and to be sure all the teachers were aware of my interest and support of my child and them. I asked if there were things I could lobby the principal or school board for. For other occasions, such as early release, I made an appointment to come by and say hello and how is it going. Teachers seemed to appreciate that, given that my child was NOT having trouble and that they were sitting around NOT seeing the parents they needed most to see. My efforts were more for my child to see that I WAs interested and I DID feel quite free to talk to their teachers, even though things were going well. Parents on this blog may not know it, but some kids will get in trouble of one kind or another just for the attention it gets at home/school. I think taking that out of the equation is important—I am involved whether they are doing well or not, and whether they like it or not. I always told my kids that when they grew up, if they needed to see a shrink, they could always say it was because their mom came to all their stuff!

By JustMe

January 17, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

Just a little math here….

If a teacher has 6 periods a day, with 30 students per class (on average), that would be 180 emails to send out to parents from one teacher every week. Is that really reasonable to ask?

And, over the course of a month, using 4 weeks per month, that would be 720 personalized emails to parents from one teacher. Give me a break!

And, this should be done in addition to all of the other duties of a teacher? I don’t think so!

By luvs2teach

January 17, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

At my other middle school, we were Title 1, and used some of that money for a “parent liaison” - she was paid as a para-pro. She was a parent within the community and she actually ended up doing a very beneficial job. She facilitated PTA infomation nights, helped parents get their access to their children’s grades online, and even sat in on some parent conferences as a parent advocate.

Because of that (and NCLB’s attendance directives) I can see the appeal of having someone to do that. For those of you who think counselors have it easy, you’ve never seen how much drama a middle schooler can create! Not to mention the endless flood of standardized tests for which the counselor is in charge of training the staff and coordinating the test’s administration. Our social workers are overworked, too.

That being said, the libertarian in me is screaming that people need to start being accountable for their actions, and we taxpayers need to stop coddling them.

Who knows - maybe it’ll be great and worth every cent. Maybe it will annoy the slackers enough that they move to another state. Maybe it will be more good money after bad.

I do know that the educational establishment is intimidating for many parents either because of bad experiences or a lack of cultural knowledge or comfort - example, my ESOL parents are amazed that such a thing as PTA exists - it’s unheard of in many countries.

Part of our yearly training before conference time includes how to make parents comfortable, how to diffuse confrontational conferences, and how we shouldn’t be sitting behind our desk (I don’t even have a desk, so that’s not a problem for me anyway). Anyone remember the old episode of Roseanne where she had a PT conference and the teacher expected her to sit in the student’s desk? Yeah, I don’t do that.

As far as addressing with Mr/s, well, I’m 42 and I was brought up to call people by their last names - I refer to other teachers as Mr/s in front of the students. I was taught to look at it as an element of respect, not a power struggle. Parents can call me by my first name if they want, and I will probably respond in kind if it seems appropriate (particularly after getting to know a parent…like sharing a room on an overnight fireld trip!).

Finally, my rule of thumb, as I’ve said before, is I try to be the type of teacher I would want my son to have - it usually works well (although we all have differing ideas on how to raise a child - I’m much more an “accept the consequences” kind of person). I love e-mail - prefer it to phones 100% - and I tell my parents to expect a 24 hour turn around time. Unless they mispell my name (common mistake folks!) or the e-mail gets caught in my spam filter (second reason they may not hear back), I’m pretty good about honoring that, however, I also answer the bulk of my e-mail at home - many people wouldn’t do that.

I have had one teacher offer to e-mail me grades, but it was on a two or three week basis, not weekly (although, in jim d’s defense, I rembmer hearing at some point that the weekly e-mail system was automatic in Gwinnett County - the teacher didn’t have to do 125 separate e-mails).

We have an online system that allows parents to access their children’s grades. If a parent doesn’t have access yet and e-mails me, I’ll cut and paste the screen into an e-mail, but I wouldn’t agree to weekly updates (and I had a child removed from my class when a parent wasn’t happy with that). It’s not always that convenient for us to do, and I’m very hands-on and in front - I often don’t have a minute to do that during class without it disrupting the flow. I will also print out a grade if asked, but I ask for a 24 hour turn around time (I’ll often have to do that during my planning or after school). Funny thing - most of the time, we post the grades for the kids (anonymously, of course, or let them know privately) and so I’m sure they know what their grade is - they just don’t want you to!

Fianlly (and this went on way too long - too bad I didn’t have my snow day, I could’ve posted shorter post but more frequently), jim d, you should have a syllabus, but there may be a valid reason why you don’t - reasons I’ve been late with getting them out include waiting on administrators approval, waiting on paper to be delivered, and waiting on copiers to be repaired. You might want to check your school website - it may be published online.

One final thought - all this technology is supposed to make communication easier and faster, but it also frustrates expectations…discuss among yourselves.

By jim d

January 18, 2008 7:34 AM | Link to this

JM,

Wrong once again!

I’m going to type real slow so yo might be able to grasp the concept.

This has been a practice instituted by the school. The only thing a parent has been requested to do by the school to recieve these updates is to provide an email address.

This has been a practice of the school for the past 7 semesters.

We do not have an online place we can go to get these reports since the system has created its own software and hasn’t bought any canned software to provide this service. (they must justify spending the millions on developing their software, you know)

In a nutshell, this is a practice or a service that has been offered by the school not one that has had any parental demands driving it.

It really isn’t that time consuming as I understand it. Teachers must input student grades anyway and the system does the rest once the teacher has entered an email address one time.

As for gossip? Well dear JM, I suspect if you approach your students parents with the same disdain you demonstrate towards parents on these blogs that they too have gossiped about you, labeling you a chithead teacher.

By jim d

January 18, 2008 7:59 AM | Link to this

L2T,

Thanks for the suggestion but I’ve already been to the teachers web pages and did in fact locate a syllabus for his L/A class. The others hadn’t yet been posted, but may well be now, and really all I’ve been saying is that If the sschool is going to change a long held practice they need to find a way to inform parents in order to minimize any confusion. I really don’t think that is asking too much nor do I believe it should fall back on teachers to inform parents of a school change in practice, that should come from the office.

By Jeff

January 18, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

At home yesterday, but sick, so this is the first I’ve been able to check back in with this discussion:

jim:

I’m siding with Just Me on this one. I have zero problem with email, and generally also prefer it FARRRRR more than phone. That said, I flat out REFUSE to send an email to a parent every week, and I don’t care WHO tells me to do it. It aint gonna happen.

Now, if said parent makes the initiative to email ME every Friday and ask for a status report, I’ve got no problem RESPONDING to the email, probably either Friday during my planning or at the latest Monday during my planning. (I’m assuming the parent sends the email on Friday.)

Particularly at Newton, I also got in the habit of posting all grades - and even missing assignments - on the bulletin board, labeled by student number. This way it is a public/ private (public in that everyone can see how everyone is doing, private in that only you know how YOU are doing) way of letting the class know where it stands. Since I generally took missing assignments any time, there were zero excuses for missing work - and yet I had kids with grades lower than their ages because of missing work. At any point all a parent had to do was ask their kid how they were doing and the kid should know the EXACT answer. If the parent didn’t trust their kid, all they had to do was step 3 feet in my door and find the appropriate chart and locate their kid’s student number on said chart. Or they could email me.

Main point: I aint gonna do something of my own initiative for one kid that I can’t do for all 120 or so of em. I WILL, however, respond to any request made from anyone regarding any of my 120 and I will typically do so within 48 hours of recieving the request.

By catlady

January 18, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this

15 years ago I was teaching 5th-7th graders. We had parents REAL MAD at one teacher because they said they did not know how their child was doing. Now, the teacher returned the papers, but many of the students did not take them home. AND IT WAS THE TEACHER’S FAULT?!?

By Lee

January 18, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

I really like my daughter’s private school online gradebook. I can look at her grades, assignments, and it even has a comment section that I can use to communicate with the teacher.

I also like the fact that I can drill down and view her grade at the individual assignment level - not just her overall class average.

It also gives the class average - at the summary and detail levels. That is extremely helpful when trying to put her grades into context. For example, if she made an 80 on a test and the class average was 90, I would probably follow up with her on that. If she made 80 and the class average was 70, then I would assume that it was a hard test and she did very well (compared to the class).

Most of all, I’m just glad these online gradebooks weren’t around when I was in school. :-)

This system also has all her homework assignments and what they will be covering in class - usually posted out to two weeks in advance.

That was one problem we had when she was in public school. She would be absent and we would call the school to get her assignments and typically, only one or two teachers would respond.

By Jeff

January 18, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

Lee:

While I’m not sure I would like the ‘advance notice’ feature, I certainly wouldn’t mind a “here’s what you missed” (the reverse).

Other than that (and assuming it is tied into the same program the teacher uses to create assignments/ record grades anyway), it appears to be a pretty good system.

By jim d

January 18, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

Let me emphasize this isn’t of the parents doing. It has been a service provided by the school. Oh and jeff, failing to comply with a direct order might be considered insubordination and cause for dismissal.

By Jeff

January 18, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

jim:

If my principal so ordered that this happen, he would either supply me with the technology to send 120 emails at once (it exists, as a matter of fact it was an often-unused capability of the gradebook software Newton used at the time) or I would tell him to his face to shove it.

Oh wait, I DID tell the assistant principal (curriculum) to shove it a couple of times.

I have no problems complying with an order - so long as I have the tools necessary, can make them, or can in some other way acquire them.

As far as the insubordination charge: I’ve always said you can write me up for anything. Feel free. I’ll take it to court and prove I’m in the right.

By jim d

January 18, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

“if said parent makes the initiative to email ME every Friday and ask for a status report, I’ve got no problem RESPONDING to the email, probably either Friday during my planning or at the latest Monday during my planning.”

You’re kidding right?

Aren’t you a programmer?

If the system is set up to allow teachers to do a one time email address entry.

Enter grades each week, only having to tell the computer to send after they had entered all grades for the class. How much extra time would it take? The grades must be entered into the system anyway. All they are doing is telling the machine to “SEND”.

I fail to understand any objection to keeping parents informed. Hell isn’t what teachers gripe about all the time, uninvolved parents? You want us involved YOU must keep us informed. Grades is an excellent way of doing that without having several thousand parents in the building, hindering your efforts to teach.

By JustMe

January 18, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

wow jim d - regardless of your typing speed, it seems that without exception, every other post here seems to support my position. hmmmmmm. maybe something to think about, huh?

By jim d

January 18, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

BINGO!!

that is the point—the technology exists and is at the finger tips of the teachers

By jim d

January 18, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

HMM,

Must be someone I know reading this blog.

Reports are starting to roll in. :-)

FYI, Child and I will be having a bit of a discussion this afternoon as to why all 100’s save two zero’s on days he was absent (obviously failing to make up his work)

See how well this can work?

By jim d

January 18, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

JM,

All that means is that 1/2 the folks don’t understand how simple a tool this is to use.

By Jeff

January 18, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

jim:

Actually, with a single parent asking for a weekly progress report, the process tends to be:

Open up email client (typically Outlook both when I was in the classroom and now), find the parent’s email address.

Create new message.

Go into gradebook program, find kid.

Manually type relevant information from gradebook program into new message.

Send.

This process can take upwards of 5 min, EASILY. And that is PER STUDENT.

Now, the gradebook program I used at Newton allowed - if the system had set up this ability - to simply enter the parent’s email address one time at the beginning of the semester, then at any point in the semester all the teacher had to do was hit a dropdown and drill down to the appropriate command, which would bring up a dialog box with a few basic options. Select the options you want, and hit ‘ok’ or whatever. Instant emails sent to every parent in the gradebook. Think you actually had to do this per class, but STILL… 1 minute compared to 1 day (nonstop).

Again, the ease of this comes in ONLY if the system had set it up. Neither Newton nor Randolph (which used the same system) had. Based on those experiences, I would be willing to bet that MOST systems do not.

Quick poll of teachers: What gradebook program does your system use? Newton and Randolph use Integrade Pro (IG PRO).

By Jeff

January 18, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

jim @ 12:55:

Actually, it is more support of my last.

Quite simply, most systems do NOT have the capability either because their gradebook programs flat out don’t have it or because the program has it but the system hasn’t set it up to work. (Yes, there is system level setup that MUST be done before ANY teacher in the system can use that feature.)

Therefore, for MOST teachers, it is NOWHERE NEAR as easy as you seem to think it is, and in fact goes more towards what JustMe has been saying.

By jim d

January 18, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

I’m not talking about other systems, only the one.

Perhaps the money for software implementation was well spent.

By jim d

January 18, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Scuze me Jeff,

What jm said was “you are putting all of the burden of communication onto the teachers.” the you being me of course and referencing the teachers with whom I deal with.

And added “You are not “supporting” the teachers, you are burdening the teachers.”

By Jeff

January 18, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

jim:

How’s this:

Assuming the technology exists as you say at your son’s school:

In YOUR SPECIFIC case, you win. In the GENERAL case, Just Me wins.

By jim d

January 18, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

Bridget,

That may be a good question for your blog educators.

“Do you feel communicating with parents is a burdensome task?”

To be honest I have never felt they would think so—but hey—I could be wrong. They might actually only want communications with parents after the fact—when things have already deteriorated.

By jim d

January 18, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

Jeff, dear freind,

Go back and read the thread. This whole thread started over my comment about sending an email to my childs teachers. No one elses.

For that effort, JM spoke of my childs teachers and what their opion of me may be.

This thread has never been about “in general.” I have continued to discuss it from a personal point of view regarding only the one school system. I never once commented, in this thread, regarding teachers in other school systems.

By Jeff

January 18, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

jim:

Once again you are confusing the issue.

The issue isn’t whether communicating with parents is burdensome, because quite simply it is. It is ANOTHER non-class related activity that the teacher has to do.

The issue is how to make it LESS burdensome.

In regards to the discussion about grades, I’ve already brought out the best solutions I’ve run across:

A) Parents initiate the contact and the teacher responds.

B) Gradebook programs set up so that the teacher can email every parent their kid’s grade with the push of one button.

In regards to discipline: If the parent is actually a GOOD parent, the phone call (what few that are needed when the parent is worth their salt) goes pretty much along the lines of Teacher: “Mr. Smith, your kid did x in class today.” Mr. Smith: “Thank you for telling me, rest assured it will NOT happen again.” Teacher: “Thank you Mr. Smith, have a nice night.” Takes all of about a minute.

Unfortunately, most parents are NOT worth their salt and the conversation tends to take 15-20 minutes. (I’ve literally been on the phone for more than an hour with a parent before, and it was a SIMPLE behavior issue!)

But either way, those calls are on an as-needed basis, HOPEFULLY not a daily/ weekly (or even ANY regular interval) thing.

By Joy In Teaching

January 18, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

My county uses My Gradebook for all of its grade reporting needs. (www.mygradebook.com) It can be accessed from anywhere, allowing teachers to access it at home on those joyous weekends that are spent grading essays instead of interacting with family. Parents and students are given access codes as well…and there is a section where a notation can be left by the teacher to explain the circumstances behind a particular grade. (Such as when Junior only completes half of the assignment and spent the rest of his time making eyes at Cindy Lou.)It is time consuming as heck…and a straw poll that I give to my students indicates that only about 10% of my students ever check their grades online.

My school system also sends out progress reports every three weeks.

Personally, I like to take a preemptive strike when contacting parents and try to contact parents when problems are minor and more easily fixed than waiting for them to become booger bears of problems. Most parents tend to appreciate this…and my administration definately does.

Still…there are those parents where no amount of communication will ever be good enough for them. A few years ago, I had this one parent who emailed me at least three times a day over the most trivial things. I finally started keeping a log and copies of emails which filled a three inch binder by the end of the school year. I had literally spent about 22 working hours in one year corresponding with this one parent. (And that didn’t include face to face conferences or phone calls.)During one conference with this parent in April, she kept referring to one specific answer on an assignment and demanded an explanation. When I pulled out my three inch binder with her initials neatly printed on the front, I thought my assistant principal would choke to death on his laughter. She later accused me of “harrassing and embarrassing her” because I saved all of those emails.

I feel sorry for kids who have parents like that.

By Jeff

January 18, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

jim:

As I read the thread this morning (and I did indeed read every post that I had missed), here’s what I picked up on:

You started based on your situation. Just Me responded based on the GENERAL situation and what she thinks teachers in your system think of you. (BTW: In my own experiences, she could quite possibly be correct. I know of a few parents that I was warned about in just such a manner as she describes.)

By jim d

January 18, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Actually Jeff,

A parent worth their salt would only need one call like that during a childs academic career. That’s all I’ve had—and damn sure better be all I get!

By Jeff

January 18, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

jim:

TRUE, but I was allowing for new experiences/ mistakes. (Such as a middle school kid might not know that he is supposed to change only his gym shorts and shirt, and not EVERYTHING in full view of everyone else.)

By jim d

January 18, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

NO ALLOWANCES!!

By jim d

January 18, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

“she could quite possibly be correct.”

Perhaps, but it certainly makes all concerned parties live’s much simpler. We all understand each other going in. I explain I need to know if any issues arise and assure the teachers that should one arise it will never happen a second time. I generally give them my permission to kick his butt should it need doing and all I ask in return is open communications.

This approach has worked well for many years. If that makes me a “trouble Parent” well Perhaps I am but I haven’t caught any of his teachers attempting to avoid me in public, so just maybe I’m doing something right——- or maybe they’re just really good at hiding.

By JustMe

January 18, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Come on now, Jeff. Do you really expect for jd to ever say that he was wrong about anything?

By Jeff

January 18, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

jim:

Could be the (physical) distance I traditionally maintain between work and home, but I can honestly say that I’ve RARELY seen anyone from one at the other, and I don’t try to avoid people from work (be they colleagues or former students/ students’ families) any more than I try to avoid crowds in general.

By jim d

January 18, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

Bout as subject to as you are.

By jim d

January 18, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

I was joshin. I actually see many of them regularly in the area. Even a few that will come to the house.

By Jeff

January 18, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

jim:

I know. Was simply pointing out that in my case in particular, the distance I live from work combined with the fact that I try to avoid crowds in general means that MOST of the time, the only reason people see me in town is because I intend for them to see me. (Kinda weird, thinking about it now: I’ve NEVER lived - in my entire professional career - in the same town as where I worked, and only very rarely even within 50 miles!)

By catlady

January 18, 2008 8:49 PM | Link to this

Cultivating good parent/teacher relations should be a joint effort. In my experience, the teacher must be the one to overcome the adversarial rumblings and assume, until proven completely wrong, that you and the parent are heading for the same goal: a student of achievement and good character. Parenthood is a very PERSONAL experience, and teachers need to understand the difficulty for most parents at seeing their children as one of many, instead of THE MOST or ONLY IMPORTANT ONE. Also, I think it is difficult for parents not to want to generalize from their limited experiences how things should be, instead of seeing the big picture. This is where a teacher, speaking gently and with well thought out responses, can illuminate the parent and get them on the same page with you.

Sometimes humor helps. Little stories that demonstrate the individual nature of the student (the teacher has taken the time to notice) can be helpful, also.

In the 34 years I have taught, I have had 2 or 3 unsatisfactory meetings, when I felt like nothing helpful had happened—seemed like we were in parallel universes. Never had one where voices were raised (at least while the parent was there) Otherwise, talking to parents, particularly in person, is golden for me. I always learn a great deal that helps me.