Get Schooled

By WFC

January 14, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this

I was agreeing with everything here until I remembered how politics work in public high schools. These standards will be dumbed down as soon as possible.

By jim d

January 14, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this

“The written guidelines help teachers understand precisely the levels of reading, writing and math skills students need to begin college or career training.”

You’re kidding—-Right?

We have teachers teaching that don’t understand what it takes to be successful at the college level?

I would really hate to believe that!

By jim d

January 14, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this

JM,

Where are you today? This ones a bigger slap in the face of educators than anything I’ve ever said in a negative tone.

By Jeff

January 14, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this

I agree we need better educated students.

MORE government intervention is exactly the OPPOSITE of how to go about it though.

Regarding ‘written guidelines…’: History, particularly recent history, shows that the bar is generally LOWERED, not raised. Therefore a teacher that knows what it took to get into college 20 years ago is probably going to better prepare a student than a teacher who graduated 20 days ago. YES, the new teacher knows what it takes in today’s environment. But today’s environment is generally FAR more lax than yesterday’s. The new teacher thus gets the kids READY to enter college, but does not prepare them for the stresses of academia of that level. The older teacher who pushes her students to the older level of readiness then not only gets her students READY, but also prepares them for the stresses of academia they face at the collegiate level.

Might I therefore propose that recent graduates MUST teach at HS, and advance down to ES at their choosing, with certain benchmarks? That way, kids are raised in school with higher expectations of what college is like, and then as they actually get near time for college, they get teachers who were increasingly there just a couple of years ago and can better tell them exactly what to expect as far as the current lifetyles and stresses of campus life that may not have existed when their earlier teachers were there. (Such as a person who graduated from Harvard in even 1985 knows LITTLE of the struggles of gaming and the prevalence of technology throughout campus. Whereas a person who just graduated may be able to clue students in on tech such as interactive voting quizzes and SmartBoards - not to mention the sheer power of cell phones, laptops, wireless, and other technologies seen outside of the classroom.

By jim d

January 14, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this

Ok, I’ve a question.

The less than 50% graduation figure is based on all georgia institutions of higher education. But when we read the data we discover that the research universities suca as UGA, GT are doing considerably better(better than 70%) than the state average.

Might that just be an indication that due to HOPE many state colleges have lowered their admittance requirements? Hmmm, makes one wonder.

By Jeff

January 14, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

jim:

I think it has to do more with the two year schools and tech schools.

I personally know SEVERAL who have a very jerky education method. Start, stop. Start, stop. Sometimes they eventually finish, but most do not. Note that two of these are in my own family. Of the two, one will probably never finish, and while the other one is still fairly questionable he is starting to actually turn around.

By WFC

January 14, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this

Wow! I sure want my son (currently a junior in HS) to be schooled in “current technologies” (which will be out of date by the time he’s a soph in college.) He can get that browsing at Best Buy. I want him e-d-u-c-a-t-e-d, a slightly different proposition!

By jim d

January 14, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

Then too,

I guess we could go back to the HS grade inflation argument and blame parents for insisting there child get all “A’s”

It really is a vicious cycle isn’t it?

By jim d

January 14, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

JMHO—but if colleges would stop trying to build more classrooms, filling them with any student they can sign just to warrant bigger administartive salaries, our kids might fare better and graduation rates might increase.

By Jeff

January 14, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

WFC:

Note that with my suggestion I am saying that regardless of WHEN a teacher graduated, I am holding subject matter expertise constant. I see no difference mathematically between a 20 yr teacher and a 20 day teacher, for example. (Well, the 20 day teacher probably has the higher level stuff more in focus, simply due to recent use. But as I am a prime example of, that isn’t what is neccessarily useful in the classroom.)

Therefore, what I am saying changes is the flavor of the ‘personality’ of the teacher. What other things do they stress? I hold that for a 20 yr teacher, they will typically stress more rigor and how challenging college is. For a 20 day teacher, they will typically stress the abundance of technology and other details that may have changed over 2 decades.

Since we know that children are FAR more impressionable at 6 than 16, I say that the teachers who stress rigor should be at the lower levels and those who can better relate to teens on a ‘hey, I was JUST THERE’ level should be working with teens.

By DB

January 14, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

OK, I’m still puzzling over this paragraph:

All public colleges in Georgia need to specify that they will not require students to take remedial college courses if students score at a certain level on the state’s high school tests. Higher education can help make college readiness a major state priority by taking this step.

First, this already pushes my buttons with regard to remedial classes at the university level. How in the name of God do kids gain admittance to college if they cannot perform even the basic skills that contribute to college survival? Whatever. That’s not a battle I’m going to fight, as colleges have seen fit to provide remedial courses, instead of simply NOT ADMITTING anyone who doesn’t meet the school’s standards. I’m too weary from last spring’s foray into college admissions with a kid who is an outstanding student by any measure — I can’t imagine trying to tackle college with a kid who can’t even read comprehensively at a high school level, much less a college level.

But given that they DO have remedial classes, why on earth would a college agree to accept scores and not require remedial classes based on a test administered in the high school? C’mon, you’ve got the SATs, you’ve got grades, you’ve got the graduation test … how many more tests do you need to finally admit that Johnny CAN’T read and doesn’t belong in college?!

By Janine

January 14, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

I haven’t participated in a while, but today I have to join in….

I’m with you DB…”why on earth would a college agree to accept scores….” I am also wondering about, ” Georgia had never defined what it means to be “ready” for college or a career”!! I don’t think that there can be a ‘one size fits all’ Readiness Test for all colleges and universities. A student can be “ready” for entering and succeeding at one school while not even close to being ready for another.

As jimd points out, UGA, GTech, [and there are others] where the graduation rate is much higher, in great part due to their stringent entrance requirements.

All in all, I think Jeff is right, too…this seems just another way of politics rearing its ugly head!

By Janine

January 14, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

Just another example of attempting to get everyone to the Lowest Common Denominator!!!

And one other thing before I just hang out and read the posts…

It is a mystery to me how/why the gov’t insists that every child can succeed at everything while at the same time insisting that the teacher “differentiate” instruction [because everyone is different!] so that everyone is taught at their own level. And why they can’t seem to understand that Algebra II cannot be taught to someone whose level is still at grasping addtion of fractions!!!!

By JustMe

January 14, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

Face it…. teachers, and what goes on inside of a classroon, are limited - not because of teacher quality, not because of teacher motivation, not even because of student quality or motivation. This limitation comes from education policy.

And, a majority of education policy is driven by law.

Example, I teach an AP class. This semester, I decided to include a notebook assignment - all students must maintain a class notebook with certain elements in it. This type of assignment is mostly done with freshman students, but I found that many of my AP kids have no idea how to take notes. I had a student literally tell me that “it was not my job” to ensure that they took notes. I was called to the assistant principal for academics to explain my assignment.

Another example: I don’t take late work. I assign work and a due date. I take it one day late only (unless there are circumstances like illness). After that, the student gets a zero. However, there are some schools (not mine, thank God) that do not allow teachers to give zeros. So, students can turn in work “just whenever”. They don’t learn the importance of deadlines.

This type of thing happens regularly. Kids don’t want to do the work. Parents back their kids. Adminstrators are afraid of parents. Teachers are beatten down. Classes are dumbed down. Grades thusly go up. “Students” are then not ready for college or a career.

Is anyone really shocked? Not me.

By Erin

January 14, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

Wait. Let me get this right. Students in an AP-level course don’t understand how to take notes in class?

I think that says it all right there.

And people really wonder why the educational system is so screwed up …

By HS Teacher Too

January 14, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

JM,

Nothing anyone can add to say it any better.

Jim d, not sure if you’re baiting us, but grade inflation is a HUGE problem, and the teachers who try to stand up for it are driven out by parents (and administrators who can’t support the teachers because Adolph — isn’t that what you call him? — overrules them).

Quite frankly, a large part of grade inflation is a collateral effect of the HOPE scholarship, something that has been beaten to death on this blog.

I’m just going to go back to hitting my head against the wall. It has about the same effect as anything else has at changing education policy, and at least it makes me feel like I am accomplishing something!

p.s. to JM — I had to deal with the no zeros-always-take-late work here in GA. I wanted to scream. In another state, not only did teachers have more autonomy, but you couldn’t make up work while you were suspended (except at the teacher’s discretion.) Even better, suspensions were UNEXCUSED absences. Logic was that you obviously did SOMETHING to earn yourself a little vacation, you don’t get to make up all your work, to boot! In other words, it was a whole strange world — meaningful consequences for your actions. Hmm. Who knew?!

By dragonlady

January 14, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

I agree whole-hearedly about the grade inflation and the pressure teachers are under from both parents and administrators to have passing grades across the boards.

However.

As an English teacher of many years, I am horrified when my students go off to college and tell me such things as the following:

Now I can’t comment about any other disciplines, but if English teachers are not requiring serious papers and serious reading, then I have a hard time defending the teaching of English in Georgia public schools.

By Prof Jables

January 14, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

I teach for a local University—a real one, not the online jobs where too many teachers get “degrees” for pay raises. I teach Comp 1 & 2. I’ve yet to see a class with more than two prepared students. The claim, “All public colleges in Georgia need to specify that they will not require students to take remedial college courses if students score at a certain level on the state’s high school tests” is ridiculous because all of our incoming freshmen are tested for remediation unless SAT or ACT scores exempt them. One would be surprised how many A and B students end up in remedial English and Math.

This is about ownership and responsibility. Students take neither for their educations, but they come by honestly. Parents interfere when teachers NEED to fail a kid who speak and/or write in standard English. And then, I’m a racist when I fail that same kid because he/she can’t string together the most basic of coherent sentences. Georgia’s K-12 rocks! I’m so glad I get to say, “Your writing stinks. You fail. Have a good day.”

By Math Mom

January 14, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

I question the inherent suggestion that every HS student in the state needs/deserves/is entitled to a college education (especially a free one). Our GA high school standards are so low that I fear some students are using 2-yr colleges to replace the missing academic content that was part of a HS education 10 or 15 years ago. With all the remedial courses, it seems that the dumbed down HS curriculum is now taking a toll on college level courses.

I too do not understand the author’s section about colleges agreeing to accept the students’ grades and not requiring remedial programs.

Bottom line, Georgia public school students continue to rank at the bottom on all academic tests. Sorry Mr. Richards but we don’t need any more educational consultants writing standards or guidelines. I am going to scream if I hear “more rigorous” used one more time to describe the obviously remedial curricula established by the state DOE.

We need highly qualified HS teachers with degrees in their subject matter. We need policies that support and encourage teachers to hold students to high standards. We need administrators who hold both students and parents accountable for disciplinary problems.

By lyncoln

January 14, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

Regarding the note-taking comments, I probably would’ve have complained and done poorly if any of my AP classes had a required notebook setup for keeping class information. I’ll admit I took lousy notes in High School for a variety of reasons, but I truly dislike having to use sprial bound notebooks (being left-handed makes a spiral bound notebook a torture device) and was forgetful with 3-ring binders. In college I used legal pads for all of my notes, and my notes were very good. I wish I had figured that out sooner.

I’ve no doubt that some students have poor/nonexistant methods of maintaining class information. Perhaps multiple acceptable methods would be less likely to produce students whining? But, that just increases difficulty in grading because of the different types of notebooks. TANSTAAFL

On the topic of the post, aren’t the major course listings found at (I assume) all Universities an academic standard for a course of study? I know my degree clearly named the math, science, and other classes I was required to take to receive my degree. How does this not cover an ‘academic standard’?

I find it difficult to believe that a college level ‘academic standard’ as mandated by the government would be a very useful method of keeping degree programs in the University system up to date and current. The business world changes rapidly and required skill sets vary within a few short years. A mandated set of skills for each major would practially need a year-round always in session review committee just to make sure it was up to date. I doubt the government would be able to keep up with new technology changes, etc. in a timely manner with regards to emerging fields of study or cutting edge engineering/science.

I don’t think ‘academic standards’ for college level courses would be useful for the University System.

By JustMe

January 14, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

dragonlady….

Please don’t necessarily believe everything a student says or says that someone else did.

I regularly hear students say that they weren’t taught ‘such and such’ from the previous teacher, only to find out that it is completely false.

I can only imagine those UGA students sitting there not wanting to speak up (or stand up) when the professor asked about the books they read in high school. At my high school, students read a minimum of 25 books per year - this is documented and tested on.

Also, I know (at least at my high school) that every English class requires term paper(s). In addition, many/most other academic core classes also require papers.

By Teacher, Too

January 14, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Yes, our schools want to have a “rigorous” curriculum, yet we are told not to “give” zeros, take work whenever, and not give homework.

Oh my. How do you have a rigorous curriculum when students are not held accountable in any way?

Then, you also get the parents who say that you require too much work. What do you want? Students who are well-prepared for the next grade level and beyond, or students who are ill-equiped to move to the next grade level?

I teach middle grades English. I require my students to read a minimal of two hours a week in addition to other assignments/projects. They must complete a research project. They must read from a required reading list so I know they are reading classic literature and appropriate grade-level current literature. I teach gifted children, and when my students move into the magnet high schools, they are prepared to handle the more challenging classes. However, it is a fight in the beginning, and I have to win over many parents who think I am too strict or require too much of their children.

I’ve mentioned this book before, but I’ll mention it again. The Blessing of a Skinned Knee is a great book for parents. Even though I am not a parent, it reinforces my own beliefs about child-rearing and how to raise self-reliant children, because isn’t that part of the problem? Parents handle (or hover over) their children, so that children are absolved of any responsility or ownership of their education (among other things)?

By Todd

January 14, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

The sad thing is that we continue to think that everyone has the ability to be an Einstein. I am sorry, but 300 lb., 4’11” Bubba Joe is not going to be a professional athlete. Not everyone can make the Olympics. Well, not everyone can get to college either (and the standards are basically non-existent with state universities). Then, of those who are admitted, half will drop out. UGA itself states only 75% percent of its students graduate in 4 years (and HOPE recipients take longer—versus high achieving SAT/ACT scorers who take shorter). For guys specifically, only 68% graduate in 4 years. So much for GPA accuracy.

Georgia GPA standards are stupid. Teachers grade differently. Standardized national scores are far more accurate. Look at the numbers.

By dragonlady

January 14, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

Just Me: I’m sure you are right. And I know there are many tough English teachers who agree much challenging reading and writing needs to be required.

But over my 40 some-odd years teaching, I can see a general decline in what is taught in the classroom.

At my school, too, students are required to write and read throughout the entire English department. I’m sorry if I sounded as if I think I am the only one.

Nevertheless, I believe there is a general slacking off in education today. When my students tell me that the kids in their dorm come to them for help because they have no idea what to do, I think that is a sad situation. I am making a general statement here. There are many exceptions, thankfully.

By JustMe

January 14, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

I find it very sad that today’s guest blogger is….

“Today’s guest blogger is the director of communications for the Atlanta-based Southern Regional Education Board, which guides states on education policy.”

IMHO it is the very education policy in GA that has screwed us up.

I want to know from this ‘guest blogger’ exactly what they consider the “right” education policy should be to prepare students for college and a career??!!?? Evidently, GA has been sold a bill of goods that is worthless!

IMHO, it all starts with strong administration from the very top (State of GA level) all the way to inside of the school. And, by strong, I mean people that make the right decisions for education, not because they are ‘afraid’ of parents, or of legal action, or any BS. Our problem, is that most people currently in this position are too afraid to do the right thing, period. They want to ‘look good’ to their bosses in order to move up (kinda like the corporate world) and so they don’t want to rock-the-boat by standing up for what is right. God forbid if a parent goes above the administrators head to complain!

By JustMe

January 14, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

Another aspect of the high college drop out rate….

Many students that would never think of going to college in GA now feel that they will ‘try it’ because of HOPE. These are, IMHO, borderline college students at best and feel that they need to ‘use their HOPE’ and basically take time off after high school and before getting a real job. These are the ones that go off to UGA with the expectation of flunking out after a couple of semesters any way - and plan to party their arse off until then - and do just that.

This is what HOPE has given us. Don’t blame high schools, don’t blame the colleges, and really don’t blame the students either. If I were in their shoes I may do the same thing.

By Biff

January 14, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

Let’s see, I have a box of Trojans, six cases of Bud, a pound of weed and the credit card daddy gave me. Yeah, I’m ready for college. Bring on the babes. Books, whatta mean books?

By Steve

January 14, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this

High schools need focus more on technical colleges where they teach things like auto mechanics, plumbing, welding, cabnitry making, etc etc etc. College is overrated and is NOT the key to making a good living. However, an auto mechanic, plumber, welder, cabinet maker can make excellant money right after graduation. They have real skills that can actually be used. Not some pie in the sky degree that does not teach you anything of use in the workplace.

By HS Teacher Too

January 14, 2008 6:25 PM | Link to this

Teacher Too — you hit it on the head. What, exactly, is appropriate? Parents will complain (jim d — not just parents, but using them as an example …) when the class average is too low (“not enough A’s! She’s unfairly difficult!”) and some will complain when the class average is too high (“too easy! My kid isn’t being challenged!”) So, what, then, is the “right” answer?

(Alas, there are too many of the former parents, and not enough of the latter parents to balance them.)

And THAT, my friends is the question to which there is no universally correct answer.

By HS Teacher Too

January 14, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

Does anyone else think it is interesting that the people who most strongly believe that not everyone is meant for — or NEEDS — college are the teachers? The policy makers are the ones wearing the rose-colored glasses; the teachers seem to be more pragmatic. I think there is a similar phenomenon when it comes to raising the minimum drop-out age: people who have been in the classroom know that those who don’t want to be there ruin it for everyone, and bring everything down to the lowest common denominator. (No one can be left behind, after all — even when they WANT to be!)

To Mr. Richard, I will say that I believe, from experience, that high school teachers by-and-large do understand what is required for students to suceed in college. The problem is that we are not able, for various reasons others have explained above, to do our job to get our students to that level. And so, until that changes, no amount of written-down standards (or any other “look how great we are! look at what we’re doing to make us even better!” posturing) will make it any different.

By Paula

January 14, 2008 7:47 PM | Link to this

Math Mom With all the remedial courses, it seems that the dumbed down HS curriculum is now taking a toll on college level courses.

Our daughter graduated Georgia Tech with highest honors. She is now at Harvard Medical School on full scholarship. She called a month ago in tears because she was so frustrated. She asked me how she could graduate from a college like Georgia Tech with a 3.8 and still feel that she was not adequately prepared. She told our son, who is currently in middle school, that he should plan to go to college out of state.

The “dumbing down” is now affecting even the best Georgia colleges and universities.

By Janine

January 14, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

So…where is our guest blogger??? There have been lots of posts with varying opinions to the topic today. I, for one, would like some response to the concerns expressed here from … the director of communications for the Atlanta-based Southern Regional Education Board, which guides states on education policy.

By luvs2teach

January 14, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this

Paula - the debate notwithstanding, your daughter doesn’t feel prepared because the school doesn’t WANT her to feel prepared.

Harvard Medical school needs to weed out the weak - no matter who the weak are - before they become doctors. I could guarantee that there are Harvard GRADUATES in the medical school feeling the same way. They’re supposed to…it’s part of the process.

Tell your daughter to hang in there :-)

By dondon

January 14, 2008 8:18 PM | Link to this

Some of the tough colleges in Ga are Emory and Mercer etc.. that look out state for their students now.

By Lee

January 14, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this

Until recently, Georgia had never defined what it means to be “ready” for college or a career. Instead, the state defined readiness using low-level high school graduation exams.

All public colleges in Georgia need to specify that they will not require students to take remedial college courses if students score at a certain level on the state’s high school tests.

Say what? Is it just me or are you arguing for and against using high school testing to determine college placement?

Your incongruousness notwithstanding, might I suggest letting the individual colleges determine their admission and placement standards.

While we have the director of communications for the Atlanta-based Southern Regional Education Board online, could you answer a question in plain English for me?

What is the SREB’s position on placing the future Valedictorian, borderline retard, illegal alien who can’t speak a lick of English, and the troublemaker (I refuse to call them Behavior Disorders) in the same classroom for eight years? (Generally, it is not until high school that the advanced student is allowed to segregate themselves by ability by taking A/P, Honors, College Prep classes) Do you think that MIGHT have some effect on the readiness of the high school graduate who wishes to attend college?

(Yeah, yeah, that’s two questions.)

By Paula

January 14, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

Luvs2teach - thanks. I told her to reach out to professors who may be able to guide her. At this point it is her responsibility to gain the knowledge she thinks she is missing. She is very determined so I’m not worried.

However I am worried about the state of education here in Georgia. But there is hope. Our school robotics team just competed this past Saturday. I’m the coach so pardon me while I get a plug in. I wish all the teachers on this post could have seen these kids excited about their robots and research projects. The competition is one of the most exciting competitions (academic or sport) that I have ever attended. On the other hand, a friend is trying to get the program started at her school with no luck. I told her if there was a ball involved, football, soccer or basketball, she wouldn’t have any problem getting it funded. In my opinion, the emphasis on sports is one of the causes of the decline in education standards.

By SET

January 14, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

The problem with the Educrats is that half of the 18 year olds in this country don’t have what it takes to finish in a good high school. Then half of the high school graduates don’t have what it takes to finish at a good 4 year college.

Educrats will never admit that high school “graduation” is the exception not the rule, and college graduation is the exception not the rule.

Most people are not born capable of graduating from a good state university in an academic major. Too Bad, So Sad.

And guess what - the percentage off those who do have what is takes - is different for the different ethnics.

It’s not that you can’t force people through high school and college by eliminating standards, affirmative action, and basketweaving majors. We have and we do. It’s just that nobody wants to pay for this anymore and there is no longer the acceptance that doing this is justifiable anymore.

Besides, some people (the ostensible objects of all this bounty) don’t want to do work, show up & produce, or control their behaviors & defer gratification.

If we want to help the left side of the bell curve - which I don’t think the Educrats really do - we will make a commitment to sorting students at all levels - offer vocational ed - and remove artificial barriers to work (such as unreasonable state vocational licensing requirements).

And “sports” is not a reason for someone to be in a public “school”.

Brave New World.

By Tony

January 14, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

The jobs in greatest demand require a four-year degree, two-year degree or specialized training.

The basis of the entire argument in the article is a false premise. There are multiple sources for the jobs of the future and most of them list service jobs as the number one area. I believe the author has confused the statistics.

Although some fast growing jobs require a college education, it is important to understand that these jobs will not be as abundant as the writer implies. Engineers, for instance, is often cited as an area of need. The reality is that we are currently graduating more engineers than there are new jobs.

Our over emphasis on getting everyone into college has a detrimental effect on colleges and high schools. For some reason, we are still afraid to face the fact that not every student is cut out to go to college.

I laughed when jim d suggested that colleges reduce their focus on filling new building with students and the graduation rate would improve. Lowering the enrollment with students who are more potentially successful would certainly improve the rate. (Jeff, I think there’s a math lesson in there.)

Perhaps, it would have been more informative for our guest to offer some comparisons. What was the college graduation rate in past years? Has it gone up or down? What about the number of graduates. Are more graduating now or fewer?

What about the impact of college athletic programs on the developmental courses? Would development courses’ enrollment increase or decrease if athletic programs were eliminated from colleges?

By JustMe

January 14, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this

This trend is also impacting our US economy. Teenagers feel compelled to go to college. They expect to earn a college diploma without much effort (study-wise that is) and then get a high paying job immediately after college.

Their purpose for this? Not for a career. Not for a sense of self fulfillment. Not for a sense of life satisfaction. Simply to have money to spend - to be a consumer.

Our society is so consumer based it is sad. We don’t make anything any more. Why? Because that requires a trade - and colleges don’t train for those jobs. We do need the mechanics, the plumbers, the carpenters, and so on. People don’t understand that they make a darn good living - sometimes with higher pay that doctors.

But someone has convinced the general public that everyone MUST go to college. What a crock.

By Love my 4 kids

January 15, 2008 2:35 AM | Link to this

Paula- Your comments about the FLL robotics team struck a chord with me. It perfectly illustrates what is wrong with a government school monopoly. The free market will outperform it every time! My 11 year old has Aspberger’s Syndrome and is gifted in math and computer programming. This year he participated in a home school sponsored FLL league. Our group sponsored 8 teams- 8th grade down to second grade with ONE FLL coach and a bunch of dedicated parents. While most on the teams were home schoolers, it was open to ANYONE, regardless of education background. This was all made possible because of the vision of one set of home school parents who’s child also has Aspberger’s and is gifted in computer programming. They started their own team to give him an outlet for his skills and blessed countless other children in the process. They had no corporate/government sponsors but their own checkbook and the contributions of the team participants. They even ran an excellent summer robotics camp and donated all of the proceeds to the FLL League. Well, they did get a return on their hard work and personal sacrifice; their son’s team (he was the programmer) placed in the top 5 and will go to State competition. The other top two winners were also home school teams. I commend you for bringing this challenging (although too politically correct for my tastes) program to your students. But why is this such a hard thing to get at a “public school” with a 2007-2008 State budget of $7.8 BILLION????? Monopolies will always promote squandering of resources! Food for thought: What would happen if 40% of the public school parents sent in a Home School intent for this fall’s registration?

By Love my 4 kids

January 15, 2008 2:35 AM | Link to this

Paula- Your comments about the FLL robotics team struck a chord with me. It perfectly illustrates what is wrong with a government school monopoly. The free market will outperform it every time! My 11 year old has Aspberger’s Syndrome and is gifted in math and computer programming. This year he participated in a home school sponsored FLL league. Our group sponsored 8 teams- 8th grade down to second grade with ONE FLL coach and a bunch of dedicated parents. While most on the teams were home schoolers, it was open to ANYONE, regardless of education background. This was all made possible because of the vision of one set of home school parents who’s child also has Aspberger’s and is gifted in computer programming. They started their own team to give him an outlet for his skills and blessed countless other children in the process. They had no corporate/government sponsors but their own checkbook and the contributions of the team participants. They even ran an excellent summer robotics camp and donated all of the proceeds to the FLL League. Well, they did get a return on their hard work and personal sacrifice; their son’s team (he was the programmer) placed in the top 5 and will go to State competition. The other top two winners were also home school teams. I commend you for bringing this challenging (although too politically correct for my tastes) program to your students. But why is this such a hard thing to get at a “public school” with a 2007-2008 State budget of $7.8 BILLION????? Monopolies will always promote squandering of resources! Food for thought: What would happen if 40% of the public school parents sent in a Home School intent for this fall’s registration?

By Love my 4 kids

January 15, 2008 2:46 AM | Link to this

Paula- Your comments about the FLL robotics team struck a chord with me. It perfectly illustrates what is wrong with a government school monopoly. The free market will outperform it every time! My 11 year old has Aspberger’s Syndrome and is gifted in math and computer programming. This year he participated in a home school sponsored FLL league. Our group sponsored 8 teams- 8th grade down to second grade with ONE FLL coach and a bunch of dedicated parents. While most on the teams were home schoolers, it was open to ANYONE, regardless of education background. This was all made possible because of the vision of one set of home school parents who’s child also has Aspberger’s and is gifted in computer programming. They started their own team to give him an outlet for his skills and blessed countless other children in the process. They had no corporate/government sponsors but their own checkbook and the contributions of the team participants. They even ran an excellent summer robotics camp and donated all of the proceeds to the FLL League. Well, they did get a return on their hard work and personal sacrifice; their son’s team (he was the programmer) placed in the top 5 and will go to State competition. The other top two winners were also home school teams. I commend you for bringing this challenging (although too politically correct for my tastes) program to your students. But why is this such a hard thing to get at a “public school” with a 2007-2008 State budget of $7.8 BILLION????? Monopolies will always promote squandering of resources! Food for thought: What would happen if 40% of the public school parents sent in a Home School intent for this fall’s registration?

By WFC

January 15, 2008 7:06 AM | Link to this

NCLB? My son, Beau Casey, will leave a lot of guys behind for the simple reason that when school is over for the day, his education begins with constant intellectual battles with me. We had it out over 19th century American imperialism yesterday. Beau held his own. We also clashed over physics. Can a 17 year old single mom high school drop out hang in there with that? Call “W” when your kid is left behiind. He “skated” all his life.

By Teacher, Too

January 15, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

HS Teacher Too- I totally agree with you. Not everyone is cut out for college or furthering his/her academic career. We need trade people and artisans. Why is all the emphasis on college degrees? There is honor in any job (except maybe drug lord or bank robber…a little levity!).

When I went to high school, many moons ago, we had a trade prep program and a college prep program. There was no shame in taking the trade prep program- and certainly, students went into the work force prepared to apprentice or to further their education at a technical school. Why has that changed?

Not everyone needs a college education- and I am thankful that I have someone who is skilled at hair styling and is knowledgeable about that. I am thankful that there are people educated in the art of cooking so I don’t have to! And, by the way, my hair stylist makes a lot more money than I ever will.

We need to rethink this “everyone goes to college” - size fits all for education.

P.S. When we had college week, I asked about those students who probably wouldn’t end up in college- why not a trade week? She responded with who was I to make that assumption… maybe because there are kids in 8th grade that can’t write a coherent sentence, that can’t read on middle grades level, let alone on an 8th grade level, that can’t pass a minimal competency test— and she thinks that those students are ready to take the advanced classes to prepare them for college. OOOHHHH- that’s why so many students are failing out of college their freshman year!

By Paula

January 15, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this

By Love my 4 kids, See you at the state competition. Our team also came in the top 5! Congratulations to your team. We are a small private school with a principal who loves the program and parents who dig into their pockets to pay for it. No, we are not a rich school by any measure. We, the parents, just want to provide the best education possible. My friend who is trying to start the program at her school is at a large public school and cannot get the parents excited about it.

Good luck at the state competition. By the way, how many hours did your team meet to prepare for this program? Our team has worked approximately 100 hours x 9 team members on this. Now that is dedication.

By fedup

January 15, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

If the universities/colleges adopt the same standards of college readiness as the GADOE we might as well open the flood gates and let everyone into college. If the GADOE backs it as a standard then expect it to be below standard. This is just a ploy to make our state education department look better. Graduation rates are for high schools are already becoming inflated. Anyone teaching or attending college realizes that very few freshmen are prepared. I would not trust the GADOE to standardized college readiness. Beware of anything they promote.

By Love my 4 kids

January 15, 2008 7:56 PM | Link to this

Hi Paula, That is “way cool!” Any child that just participates in the program deserves a trophy for all of that hard work. Our teams met for two hours once a week from August until competition (before Christmas). Of course they put in quite a few more hours the week before they competed. My son had exactly 2 days to do ALL of his team’s programming (the robo-builders went through six robot designs- one for each kid). I was very proud of him as their robotics competition score bested our Regional Finalist’s team. But best of all, for a child with Aspberger’s (and the accompanying “social deficits”), to be accepted and respected by his peers is worth more than any trophy. However, he is already plotting how he and his team can win State next year. We’ll be there cheering on all the teams because they truly are all winners for having made the effort.