Get Schooled

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Well, the naturally smart kids are going to do well on tests regardless of how little attention they get…

By Lee

January 10, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

I would like to ask Kathy Cox one question:

How do you measure “What might have been?”

Answer; you can’t.

We will never know how much the advanced students have been harmed because we have no benchmark to compare.

Oh wait, yes we do…

When our straight A students go off to college and find themselves making C’s and D’s because their work does not measure up to the standards set by the kids from the elite private schools, or

When your straight A student leaves public school for private school and her average drops a full letter grade, or

When you hear teachers talking about how they do not worry about the advanced students because they know the advanced student will give them the test scores they need.

What has happened is that the parents of the high achieving student has been lulled into a false sense of accomplishment by “twelve years of straight A’s.”

One day, these students will meet Mr. Reality.

By Teacher, Too

January 10, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this

I wonder what research she’s citing, other than CRCT scores (which is a minimal competency test). It’s been well documented that gifted/ high ability students have been hurt by the emphasis on lower-performing students. Sure, the high-ability students might still test well, but their own, unique educational needs are most definitely not being met.

Oh,if my maturity level were on par with a two-year-old, I’d be throwing a major temper tantrum right now!

By dragonlady

January 10, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

Me, too, Teacher, Too. It is off the cuff remarks like this that show Cox is indeed focusing on only one group. Not only that, it is a group some of which may very well never improve.

And I’d like to know: just how many schools are there which have “raised the achievement of their special education students”? I would be interested in knowing the statistics here.

By JD

January 10, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

Why should schools be ‘focusing’ on any one group? And why can’t we challenge the brightest while ensure that children with special needs get what they need? All children deserve access to the level of education they require to do their best. This is just more ‘teaching to the test score’, which is why GA’s educational systems have become the joke of the country.

By V for Vendetta

January 10, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

If she’s citing test scores based on GA’s pathetic assortment of standardized tests, then she belongs in a special ed. class alongside the kids she champions.

I agree whole-heartedly with Lee. The reality check comes when these gifted students get to college, and realize that they are unprepared for education at the next level. It’s a shame and an unjustice.

I’ve talked on here before about my theory — the virus of stupid — and Cox’s remarks only support it. We have been spending the past decade attempting to lift up the under-achievers, the slackers, and the discipline problems in our nation’s schools, and to what end? Insane expectations for school achievement, stupifying amounts of standardized testing, and money-hungry politicos, educrats, admins, and testing agencies. Bollocks.

On top of that, as a society we pave the way for the knuckle-draggers to eek through their pathetic lives. We justify it by hoping for a diamond in the rough, but an old man with a metal detector on the beach rarely strikes gold. The leeches in society have child after child, while the academically gifted, mentally competent, and financially secure typically have one or two. We’re being bred out of existence. You think it’s funny? I’m not laughing. I’m a teacher, and I see it every single day of my life. THAT’s the virus of stupid, and thanks to people like Cox …

… it’s spreading.

By Pat

January 10, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

The system is “fadding out” of SPED right now because of too many black males in SPED. In a few years it will cycle back when the lawsuits flood in because kids who needed special services were not adequately served. It is a danged if you do, danged if you don’t situation no matter what. Cox is clueless. She schedules 90 minute visits to schools and everybody gets dolled up and she shows up an hour late and stays for 20 minutes.

By fred

January 10, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

although the scores of the higher achieving students may not change, mostly due to the fact that we are talking about minimum levels of learning and testing, it can not be denied that more attention is focused on those not reaching that low bar. monies being spent on this targeted group must come at the expense of another group. We used to spend money ensuring that our “talented & gifted” programs were actually able to enrich the curriculum with feild trips, extended lab experiments and the like. That has all but ended. Other programs such as arts and after school activities are also drying up as the piece of the pie taken up by remediation enlarges.

By Gail

January 10, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Amen, JD Why can’t people accept that the public education system is failing ALL students? Why must people keep blaming special ed students because they are finally getting the attention they should have been getting all along?

V, the “knuckle-draggers” and their “pathetic lives” comments were really low. Contrary to popular belief, all special ed students are not black, low-income and come from ignorant families. Geez!

By Teacher, Too

January 10, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

I wonder if Ms. Cox has ever actually sat in a “regular” classroom when she hasn’t been announced or directed to a particular teacher for a dog-and-pony show.

We just finished scoring practice writing assessments, and it was sad. The writing was basic and low-level. For high ability/ gifted students to have to be in a regular class with low-achieving students is a not just a disservice to them; it is a travesty. I wonder how Ms. Cox would feel if her child were in a regular class at my school. Her opinion might be radically different. Maybe then, she would advocate on behalf of the gifted/high ability students.

By Ratt

January 10, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

Your main problem with special ed is that there is too much mainstreaming.

The kids - especially the MI (in school parlance: mildly mentally retarded) - do need to be socialized but not at the expense of others.

Since special ed counts just the same and the kids are mainstreamed, teachers have no choice but to dumb down/slow down the material to keep passing those standardized tests. After all, we can’t be a “failing” school, can we?

In these modern mainstreamed classes, a special ed teacher follows his/her group around all day. There is supposed to be collaboration bet s/he and the regular ed teacher, but really - how much can you collaborate? Only one person can lead the lesson. While the special ed kids are to be assisted by their teacher, there is still sacrifices by both educators as we have to work as breakneck as a pace as possible. Because that passing school label is bandied about like a Nobel Prize.

No Child Left Behind is ridiculous for special ed. They’re special ed! There’s only a certain level they can achieve. Back in the non-p.c. days, they were labeled “trainables.” You trained as well as possible so that they could be functioning, working members of society.

No Child Left Behind is saying that it is wrong to be less than a rocket scientist. That we all absolutely need calculus. That we all much achieve in the same mold.

Let’s go back to rural schools and much less standardized testing. Community schools brought community interest and local pride. It was harder to fall through the cracks.

By mother of a spec. needs child!

January 10, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

Let me say this. My child has several special needs. She is not black, nor poor, nor is she ignorant or a low life! Unless you have walked in my shoes you have no idea what it is like. The education plan has changed and her expectations have gone up. I want the teachers to expect more out of her, but not to benefit the school. It is a struggle for most of these kids AND their parents to even get the services that they need AND deserve! For stupid people out there that think special ed is for black males only, let me say that you are far More ignorant than any special needs child i have ever had the pleasure of dealing with. The state faults all of our children when it comes to education, that is one area where there is no discrimination!

By JustMe

January 10, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

This is another hand-waving job done by the State. Here’s why….

The point of education, IMHO, is not to teach to a common ‘level’ but rather to push the child to be the best that they can be. This is done for the special ed students and for low level students. However, it is done at the expense of the higher level students, and sometimes at the expense of the average student.

Gail - People are angry at special ed because it DOES suck the resources and money up. For example, at my high school, the largest department (teacher count) by far is special ed, even though we only have about 3% special ed students. Does this even make sense to you? The academic classes (math, science, social studies, English) for other students really are suffering because they are over crowded simply because there are not enough regular ed teachers - all resources are going to special ed.

And, it is just getting worse. The maximum class size as mandated by GA continues to climb every year. More and more students are squeezed into these academic classes because the ‘teacher slots’ are going to special ed and there just aren’t enough teacher slots for the academic areas. I have seen classes with 30, 40, and even 50 students crammed into a single classroom with a single regular ed teacher. How can this not have an impact on student learning?

All the while, there are the special ed classes called ‘study skills’ where there is often one special ed teacher plus a para for 6 students.

Dummy Cox can say whatever she wants. Those of us in the trenches know the truth.

By Jeff

January 10, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

Personally, I’ve LONG held that in the presence of enough pain, ANYONE can learn ANYTHING.

Problem is, we are too sissified to accept this…

By decaturparent

January 10, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHHHHRRRRAAAGHHHH

By mother of a gifted child

January 10, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

So, mother of a special needs child.. your kids gets what she needs and gets and educations plan and has her “expectations increased.” Meanwhile, my child is completely ignored. Finally, she finally gives up and hates school and learning because it is so eternally boring to have to do things you already know all day long.

Your child gets an education. Mine does not. Why is that fair?

By mother of a spec. needs child!

January 10, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

I am outraged at some peoples “opinion” of the special ed. child and those who teach them. It takes a very special someone to be a teacher, but even more so for those children who have special needs.

By mother of a spec. needs child!

January 10, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

Ok mother of a gifted child- No one said it was fair. I also have a child who doesnt have special needs and yes she was bored with school and didnt want to learn, I understand what you are saying. The children are not to blame, dont hate on my child because she as you say “gets and education”. Let me tell you something, If you dont like your childs education then HOME school them. Do you know anyone that has a child with special needs? I have had to fight with the BOE to get services for my daughter. It is up to ME to make sure that she is not left behind by this system and that is what I plan on doing. She needs to be ready and educated so that she may be a productive adult in this world. She struggles everyday to achieve goals that are set for her. I want her expectations raised of course, but not at the cost of other children that is NOT what i was saying. I am just sick of the ones who have no clue what it is like, and it all comes down to politics for your child and mine. I will fight to the very end for her to make sure she gets the education she deserves…….. we should all do the same.

By tonya c

January 10, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

Wanna be in a conundrum? How about having a special ed student son with pronounced ADHD but who ALSO qualifies as a gifted student?!

By mother of a spec. needs child!

January 10, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

As an after thought let me add, that my child and many of her peers are excluded from taking the CRCT… and other standardized testing.. therefore she has NO impact on the scores for her school.

By Gail

January 10, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

JustMe, I don’t disagree with you that more money is being spent on special ed, even at the expense of average and/or gifted students. The problem I have with some of the opinions on this blog have to do with BLAMING THE SPECIAL ED STUDENTS for the discrepancies.

Let’s face it; school systems have been allowed to ignore special ed students for years. A lot of this happened because schools were not being held accountable for teaching special ed students. NCLB has forced schools to address those students that they had been ignoring. This may be one of the few good things about NCLB. Now since the schools are all upset that they won’t pass CRCT without addressing these subset groups, they want to deflect everything toward whatever they have to in order to meet the new requirements. And other students are now the ones being shortchanged. I agree that it’s not fair, but it’s the same predicament the special ed students were in years ago. If it’s not fair now, then neither was it then.

I resent the implication that gifted students, or even average ones, are inherently more valuable and more deserving of being educated appropriately than special ed kids are. All students should be able to receive an appropriate education, but not at the expense of other students who are equally deserving. Obviously, more money is required to educate all children.

By JustMe

January 10, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

mother of a gifted child

I don’t know much about elementary or middle school. But in high school, please ensure that your child signs up for AP classes. These are classes designed by the College Board for high school and are really college level. Your student can not only earn high school credits but also college credits through AP courses. This means that your child could start college with many college credits already.

Most average to large sized public high schools offer AP courses. Even if the high school over all is a ‘bad’ high school - meaning that it hasn’t made AYP or whatever - the AP classes should still be of quality because they are maintained and reviewed by the College Board, not the high school and not by the school system.

It is certainly worth your while to find a public high school that offers the most AP courses. This will enrich your child’s education and also save you big bucks when they are in college.

By JustMe

January 10, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

mother of a spec. needs child!

My dear, there are few ‘opinions’ here that are negative towards the special ed. child or the special ed. teacher. The outrage is at the unfair resource distribution considering the overall school population.

How can anyone think it is acceptable for (as an example) 3% of the student population consume, use, or take 15% of the teachers at a school?

By JustMe

January 10, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

Gail

An important question to ask is… What do you consider an “appropriate” education?

Yes, some sp ed students could eventually learn to count money - if they have the undivided attention of 2 full time teachers over the course of 3 years. Is this “appropriate”?

What about the gifted child, that if given the same 2 teachers over the course of 3 years could have found the cure for cancer! Would that be “appropriate”?

IMHO, the anger most people feel is that our tax dollars are being spent to ensure that the sp ed student can count money at the expense of the gifted child that could have found a cure for cancer.

The anger is not personal. It is practical.

By mother of a gifted child

January 10, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

Justme - thank you. I took AP as a kid, so I know about it, but I’m glad that someone gives a rip b/c my school system no longer does.

Mother of special needs child… No one has issues with special needs kids. It is just very unfair that some kids get ignored and education and others get ignored or put to work as free tutors.

Thank you for your suggestion to homeschool. I am seriously considering it. Why don’t you consider it too?

By Gail

January 10, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

Just Me

Yes it CAN be acceptable for fewer students to require more resources. Sicker patients in hospitals receive more care that costs more money. Should the same amount of medical care be spent for a person with an ankle sprain as for one with a liver transplant?

If your teenager turns 16 and you buy him or her a car, do you then turn around and spend the same amount of money on your 12 year old? If one child needs braces, do you buy another kid $2000 worth of something to “even things out”?

I am sick of hearing how unfair it is because special ed kids need more attention, more money, etc. So do gifted kids, but I didn’t hear anybody complaining about how unfair it was when special ed kids got squat and all the attention was on typical students.

The fact is, there’s not enough money for schools, and some of the people on this blog have decided that it’s somehow okay to shortchange the special ed kids because, hey, “not my problem.”

By mother of a spec. needs child!

January 10, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

JUST ME- “some spec ed students can learn to count money with the undivided attentin of 2 full time teachers over the course of 3 years?? Obviously, you are in assumption of this statistic. My child didnt take 3 years to learn how to count money from 2 teachers. Are you an educator? As for the 3% taking up 15% of the teachers.. not at my daughters school. They have 1600 students at her elementary school and only 3 spec. ed classes…

By mother of a spec. needs child!

January 10, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

Mother of a gifted child As for the Home school. I would like nothing more than to do that, but I am a single parent and work full time.. at this point it is impossible to even consider it. Believe me though, I would love nothing more than to educate my own child at her pace not that of the school system. If you are fortunate enough to do that (home school) then you should. Faith Academy is a great place to start.

By Gail

January 10, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

JustMe

I am not a special education expert on anything except my special ed kid. I can’t tell you what is “appropriate” for every child. Fortunately, my son is mildly disabled and quite teachable, but he does require some extra attention. This extra attention is provided by a special ed teacher, medical professionals as well as his family.

Perhaps children who are severely disabled should be in a different setting or school, I can’t say. But I don’t think this is the level of disability for the majority of special ed children in the public school system. However, when this topic seems to come up on this blog, that’s who people seem to be referring to (hence the “knuckle-dragger” comment on an earlier post).

My personal opinion is that parents of special needs kids need to be doing as much as possible to help them, but that’s the same argument we make on this blog all the time about parental responsibility. Some parents like me are going to take responsibility and some are not. Should the students who have sorry parents suffer? I don’t think so.

YOUR comments may not be personal, but it’s difficult for the parent of a special needs kid not to take “knuckle-dragger” and “pathetic lives” personally.

By OldSchool

January 10, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this

Add this to the mix: I’ve been teaching for 33 years. I vaguely remember a staff development session (of a few hours duration) dealing with teaching special needs students in our regular classrooms, but that was at least 20 years ago. I’ve had special needs students in my classes over the years with varying degrees of “success.” A few were carefully screened by their SE teachers and were amazing students…hardworking, eager to learn, remarkably well-behaved. Then there’s two of the students I had this past term…couldn’t read a lick, couldn’t do the most basic math (didn’t know what the heck an inch was!) and didn’t give a rat’s patoot about being in the class. One crocheted nearly everyday or colored with her crayons. And I’m supposed to make job entry-level drafters out of these? I tried…they didn’t.

I have a couple of other special needs kids who are thriving and working hard. I was real glad to see them back in my class and expect great things from them.

Mainstreaming can work if matchmaking is done first. I just don’t think too much matchmaking is taking place.

By Lisa B.

January 10, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

In a meeting just last week, groups of teachers met in a workshop to study data. Over the last three years, test scores of our SPED students have increased dramatically in grades 3-8. However, during the same years, the percentage of students who “Exceed Expectations” on the CRCT has decreased. We’ve been recognized for our success at closing the Achievement Gap. Hmmmmm.

I think Kathy Cox misspoke.

By jim d

January 10, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

simply stated—Cox is an idiot!

By Lisa B.

January 10, 2008 6:32 PM | Link to this

Gail, your 4:29 post makes excellent points. Schools DO focus on whatever it takes to be perceived as successful. When 3rd grade students had to pass the CRCT to be promoted, we adopted Reading First, and other programs which pretty much focused only in reading. In 5th and 8th grade, students MUST pass reading AND math, so forget about Social Studies and Science. Too many SPED kids causes their test scores to count as a subgroup. Amazingly, large numbers of students “test out” of Special Ed. President Bush noticed that Science scores have declined nationally. Well, hello George, the kids don’t have to PASS science until they get to the High School Graduation Test. If tomorrow, the government passed a law that said children must pass the Social Studies CRCT to be promoted, schools would immediately change the focus to Social Studies. Educators spend soooo much time trying to comply with state and federal mandates. Perhaps if that changed, schools could do a better job educating ALL the children, in ALL areas.

By Zoe

January 10, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

Out of the 400 plus juniors at my school that took the GHSGT- writing portion in September, only 5 earned a pass plus (meets/exceeds) are you telling me that NCLB and its focus on the bottom 20% didn’t affect the top?

Our school has 17 teachers and several paras in the SpEd department. The academic departments have between 13 and 15 teachers each. There is a shifting of resourses to special ed. Also, only a small percentage of our SpEd students can opt out of the GHSGT for the portfolio assessment. The rest have to be tested and yes, they do affect the bottom line of whether our school makes AYP or not.

By amy

January 10, 2008 7:34 PM | Link to this

Special Ed parents should work extra hard with their kids on their studies at night and on weekends, and yes summer vacation to supplement and enhance what the teacher does during the day at school. The teacher is only one person and can only do so much. The same goes for parents of gifted students, if their parents do not feel they are getting enough in the classroom, they should also work with them, and do extra studying beyond what’s in the classroom to be well prepared for college. At some point we have to stop blaming the teachers and schools and take some parental responsibility.

By Rita

January 10, 2008 8:37 PM | Link to this

In the school I taught at before retiring our administration manipulated the numbers so that the Special Education group did not have enough students to be counted as a sub group for AYP purposes. This meant that children who needed the services were not tested or staffed into Special Education. I had a problem with that as did many other teachers, including the chair of the special ed department. We fought to rectify the situation and were admonished. So not only do the gifted and average students get cheated so do some of the children who need special ed as I am sure ours was not the only school do this!

By V for Vendetta

January 10, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

Gail, Gail, Gail, forgive me for not being clear. My term “knuckle-draggers” was not directed at sped kids specifically. Rather, it was a generalization of the types of kids (primarily in REGULAR ed.) that receive the majority of teachers’ time. Why is that? Well it all boils down to this silly notion that education is a RIGHT. It most certainly is not, it is a privilege — one to be cherished and respected. I am not submitting that we should deny anyone access to a free a public education. I am saying that once you prove you have no interest in it, you should be quickly removed from the system and placed in a technical or trade school (similar to what is done in many European countries).

This way of thinking would drastically reduce the amount of time, money, and effort that is expended on kids who make better doorstops than they do human beings. No one wants to admit this, of course. That would be mean. Oh dear.

In fact, such thinking would, most likely, benefit special education programs. It would allow them more resources, more time, and more teacher energy, without this notion that they detract from regular ed classrooms. Everybody wins. (Unless they have one of the many new “bogus” problems like ADHD. What nonsense.)

My heartfelt apologies to you for my misinterpreted comments. I can be blunt, and I can be harsh, but making fun of sped kids is off limits in my book. Sorry for the confusion.

What I AM, though, is a realist. We as humans tend to want to believe the best, even if it’s sometimes detrimental to the greater good. By the time kids get to high school, I defy any teacher to say that on the first day of school they can’t already predict who will pass and who will fail with 99% accuracy. It has nothing to do with physical appearance, stereotyping, and/or pre-held beliefs. It has everything to do with behavior, actions, and accountability.

Again, sorry for any confusion.

By catlady

January 10, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

• therefore she has NO impact on the scores for her school.*

Unfortunately this is NOT true. Even if your child is exempt from the testing, if your child is in school, in inclusion special ed kids very frequently have a severe impact on the other students directly. Indirectly, if your child is not included in the regular ed class, a great deal of financial resources are diverted to special ed so the regular ed kids are impacted this way.

Now, I am NOT saying not to serve special ed children, or to do as they used to and exclude them from school as soon as possible. I do wish we could refine the method of serving so you do not sacrifice the needs and potential of regular ed and gifted kids. And many times, they ARE sacrificed!

I speak from 34 years’ experience, and I can tell you it is getting much, much worse!

By catlady

January 10, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

Another comment re: Ms. Cox’s “very questionable” comment: at our school, the brightest kids are no longer making a year’s worth of progress in a year in reading as measured by valid tests (not CRCT). Our system operates on a special ed model for all: although no kids are allowed to test into special ed, we treat all kids like they are of limited intelligence! And no one EVER fails, at least until they hit high school and drop out when they cannot do any even minimal work.

And with the increased demands of CYA with paperwork (interventions, etc) we are spending more and more time teaching less and less. We certainly don’t teach to mastery—we “expose” the children. Now, I want to know, do you want me to TEACH the children or do you want me to write down what I would do if I had time to teach them?

Then factor in the canned stuff— the cure d’jour like Reading First, scripted reading and math, Singapore math, Calendar Math, Max Thompson’s nonsense Learning Focused Schools, Saxon Math, ad nauseum, and you have the perfect storm of (non) education.

We keep running and running, but it seems like we are only running in place on a good day. The rest of the time we are running backwards.

By thomas

January 10, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Pat and others are so right about the rationale behind the reduction in special education services.

The reality is that many students who truly have deficiencies and need additional, “special” services will not get them. It is becoming so difficult to even get a child tested for learning or emotional difficulties that teachers and schools do even try now.

The reason for the new rules making SPED education testing, and hence possibility for SPED, difficult is threefold. One- fewer SPED students means less money spent on additional personnel and materials. Two- Fewer SPED students means less of a burden in terms of AYP and NCLB. Three- Fewer students entering SPED means that you have less chance of the overrepresentation argument raised by Pat (that’s a true statement, by the way- HISTORICAL NOTE: The SST was developed as a result of a lawsuit brought against the state in 1984 claiming that a disportionate number of blacks were put into SPED).

The truth of the matter is that many children were placed into SPED who did not have a real intellectual or emotional disability. Many of these children were victims of distaughtia (not to be confused with dislexia) or impatient teachers. Often teachers who encountered students who were “behavior problems” and/or had some sort of academic deficiency were routed toward SPED. It solved the teacher’s “problem”. It relieved her (and her subsequent collegues) of trying actually teach and work with that student. The truth of the matter is that a lot of “teachers” working in our schools do our children a disservice and have no business in a school. They need to be working at Wal-Mart or if they want to be in a school, they should be mopping floors and cleaning toilets. They don’t really care about the children.

A bunch of bad apples WHO CAN’T TEACH A DOG TO SIT and work in public schools for a paycheck and extra days off ruined SPED. Special education was designed to help children who really had disabilities. Many people fought hard for many years to get mandated help from these children. But some schools and some lazy, excuse making parents (particularly those who sought LD and OHI status for their children) ruined SPED.

By thomas

January 10, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

Why does education have to be painful? If you have good classroom management, can develop effective, appropriate lessons, and can develop a rapport with your students, students can learn without pain. And enjoy it.

The drill sergeant method is really ineffective as a means of motivation and instruction for children.

By catlady

January 10, 2008 9:32 PM | Link to this

Amen to Brother Thomas! Actually, I think he is being a little too positive.

I don’t see how it is legal to not provide services to genuinely handicapped kids. * I don’t see how it is legal to not provide a free and APPROPRIATE education to NON-disabled kids.*

I have started to wonder: do the schools get more money for EIP services than they do for run of the mill special ed? Quite a few of the children we have in EIP year after year have more serious problems. Our EIP numbers keep going up and up, while at our school last year not a single referred student got special ed designation! They were always “just above” the cutoff level. I am talking about 5th graders working at second grade level, for example.

This year NOT A SINGLE Student has been tested although some of them have been suffering for 6 years with “undiagnosed” deficits.

By JustMe

January 10, 2008 11:08 PM | Link to this

Another component here is the excessive number of kids that are Sp. Ed. when it is really their parents that push to get this ‘label’ for the extra services. I know of some parents that did just that so that their child would get extended testing time just so their kids would have an ‘edge’ over other kids.

The parents will tell you that they are just taking advantage of the rules in place. However, they don’t realize that their kid may be displacing a student that really does need help. Not to mention sapping the resources that should be for all kids.

By Patty

January 10, 2008 11:33 PM | Link to this

My child is a special ed student at the KidsPeace Charter School in Bowdon, Georgia. Before going to KidsPeace, she was getting suspended and failing most of her classes. she hated school. While at KidsPeace she improved. She was able to raise her grades and get back on track. She is now attending a local school, is making A’s and B’s and is no longer in special ed classes. See special ed students can acheive.

By Sp Ed Teacher

January 11, 2008 1:12 AM | Link to this

Yes, Kathy, tell people about Sp Ed students. BUT, also tell them that when they graduate with a Sp Ed diploma or a Certificate they do NOT count as part of the graduation rate in GA. People see the % who graduate and assume the rest dropped out. No, about 18% of students get Sp Ed diplomas or certificates (for those who do not pass all 5 parts of the GHSGT). Many would have gotten a regular diploma had they passed the graduation tests.

By becky mattix

January 11, 2008 5:23 AM | Link to this

Kathy Cox is a bald-faced liar, as well as being out of touch with reality.

By Jeff

January 11, 2008 5:34 AM | Link to this

thomas:

Ever touch a hot stove?

Didn’t your parents tell you not to?

Guess what? You did anyway. Then, when you felt that searing pain, you learned PERMANENTLY the lesson your parents had tried to teach you.

The same can be said of knuckleheads in school. I GAURANTEE you that if you put them in enough pain, they’ll learn anything you try to teach them. Drop out rates will be ZERO percent, and everyone WILL graduate with a college prep diploma far more stringent than anything any of us have ever seen.

As I said though, we as a society are FAR too sissified to be willing to do what it takes to get to that point.

By becky mattix

January 11, 2008 5:45 AM | Link to this

What do you mean, “mother of a spec ed child?” Many of the spec ed students do not take the CRCT. Which ones? Every school I have heard that does not make AYP, it’s blamed on the spec ed. Any spec ed students I’ve known taking the CRCT does take it in a separate room. Continue to fight for your spec ed child, but let me tell you something else, parents of gifted and non-gifted better start fighting for their children also because they are getting squeezed out and not getting the education they deserve and what the tax payers are paying for! Do not ask the principal,do not ask administrators, do not ask anyone at the state level, take your child’s teacher aside and ask him or her to tell you the truth. If you care anything at all about your child and their education.

By jim d

January 11, 2008 6:45 AM | Link to this

Ya know, I just knew that somewhere in this mix parents would get the blame.

It is almost reassuring to know the more things change the more they remain the same.

By Lee

January 11, 2008 6:48 AM | Link to this

Of interest, a Time magazine article entitled Are We Failing our Geniuses?

I have read numerous articles over the years about how America is losing her competitive advantage in the global economy. We see evidence of this everyday. Toyota has surpassed Ford as the #2 automobile maker. Our trade deficit with China is quickly reaching critical mass. Etc, etc.

There are a lot of problems looming in America’s future. We need the best and brightest to come up with innovative ideas.

Public education’s solution, however, is to place the best and brightest in a classroom focused on the lowest common denominator.

Parents of the advanced student are not asking that schools ignore the SPED student. We are merely asking that the schools provide an appropriate level of instruction to ALL students commensurate with their ability level.

Is that too much to ask?

By Joy in Teaching

January 11, 2008 8:10 AM | Link to this

Our gifted kids are really getting shafted these days in the public school system. Enrichment or “focus” classes in elementary schools are not doing much of anything other than exposing them to different ideas and activities and are actually allowing them to get behind.

In elementary school, gifted students are taken from language arts and math classes for “enrichment purposes.” While they are out of that class, the remainder (average and below average students) are either remediated or are continuing on with lessons. Enrichment activities include making maps, creating art projects, etc.

The thing is…by the time gifted students make it to the 6th grade, they are behind in some areas of mathematics and language arts. I’ve noticed that my gifted 6th graders are arriving in middle school completely ignorant about grammar and mechanics as they were never exposed to them in elementary school because they were removed for “enrichment.”

It’s disheartening to know that we are holding back our gifted and talented students by trying to help the others to catch up.

By fedup

January 11, 2008 8:11 AM | Link to this

Lee’s post is perfect. I’ve heard numerous stories of straight A students being shocked in college. The real proof comes from the first quarter of college or the college placement exam. Check out how many high school grads start out taking GED level courses at technical colleges across the state. That all important graduation rate forces graduation for many that are not prepared. I’ve been told many times that the school system isn’t worried about my child- she’s going to get it because she is mine. My question- Why send her to school if she is going to get it because she is my child? If I’m to do all of the teaching why send her to school. Babysitting services??? Teacher’s assistant for the underachievers??? My child spend countless hours at school practicing for the CRCT. She has notebooks full of pages of practice for the CRCT. Georgia schools are teaching the test not educating our children. I’ve witnessed the visits by Mrs. Cox to classrooms. The teachers and students are prepared to perform when she comes to school. I have to give it to Mrs. Cox- she and her team have done a great job w/marketing. We will see the results in the next five to ten years. What then???

By V for Vendetta

January 11, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this

Lee couldn’t be more on point today. Here’s a perfect (and very real example) of what he is saying:

A typical honors class, full of typical honors students, gets a new student who is being “mainstreamed” from the SPED program. The new student has Asperger’s, a highly functional form of autism that, unfortunately, brings with it certain socially unacceptable behaviors.

The result:

The honors students spend more time staring at the girl who picks her nose with her pens and pencils, attempts to share them with others, and has difficulty staying in her seat, than they do actually LEARNING anything.

A friend of mine told me this story because IT HAPPENED AT THEIR SCHOOL (intentional use of the wrong pronoun grammar nazis). The bottom line is this: the good of ONE sped kid was more important than the learning of twenty-something other honors students. What a pile of BS. And, as always, this happened in one of the best districts in the state.

By jim d

January 11, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this

Lee I read that Time article back in Aug. and was facinated with the concept of Davidson Academy.

Found their web site even more fascinating. Check it out. Of course you’d have a tough time starting a school of this nature in places like Gwinnett County, where even an all girls school was turned down by the county

By Gail

January 11, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this

Good morning, V for Vendetta

Thank you for the apology. I graciously accept.

I agree with you about separating students between those willing to cherish and respect an education and those who do not. Sometimes I think we should divide all the school districts in half. Half the schools would be made up of students who want to be in school and are willing to work, and the other half would be for everybody else. If you go to the unwilling school and prove that you’re willing to work, you would be rewarded by transferring to the “working” school.

IMHO, the ones dragging the schools down are the ones who don’t care about learning, much more than the ones with less ability. That includes students, parents, teachers and administrators.

By V for Vendetta

January 11, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

Lee, I hate to be a bugger, but …

Toyota surpassed GM, not Ford as the #1 automaker in the world. Ford, and especially Chrysler, are in such dire straits right now that your point is illustrated simply by how incompetently two of our largest companies are run. It is an inudstry that America dominated until the 70’s and the 80’s when competition from Japanese automakers started taking enormous bites out of the Big Three’s market shares. Since then, it’s been a long, slow downward spiral.

Hey! That sounds just like education! Fancy that.

By Rural Georgia Mom

January 11, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

Mother of a gifted child: I have three gifted kids in public schools. Last year, my then 8th grader was planted between two extremely special ed. kids in SCIENCE all year long. (Science is not important in Georgia schools, remember). She literally helped them find where to write their names on their papers, day after day. This is a gifted child being used to teach special ed (yes, the special ed had one or two teachers with them, also). One of the other gifted kids in the classroom had the unspoken role of correcting the science teacher’s teachings. I am up at the school explaining that the reason 40% of the sixth graders could not pass the CRCT in math is because of the stupid Everyday Math program the school refuses to supplement with real math, along with concerns over many other things. I could not spend hours trying to get the incompetent science teacher fired. THE GIFTED ARE BEING LEFT BEHIND. My 9th grader is now in AP and loves the challenge, however, the school has less than a 20% passage rate for AP, as the courses are not truly taught, -or perhaps the kids have no idea how to study after 8 years of no homework. (after all, homework would not be fair to the students from single parent homes with a high poverty level, and the goal is fairness, not education.)

By fedup

January 11, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this

Gail,

Why waste money funding a school for kids that don’t want to be in school? If they don’t want it allow them to drop out, but don’t subsidized their lazy behinds when they drop out.

Rural Georgia Mom,

You are absolutely correct. Gifted kids are teachers’ helpers and in many cases teach the teacher a few things. I’ve been told over and over again that my child will be okay because she belongs to me. This means I’m going to teach her and the school isn’t worried about her.

LOOK AT GRADES IN HIGH SCHOOL COMPARED TO COLLEGE GRADES OR COLLEGE PLACEMENT SCORES. THE PROOF IS AVAILABLE IF WE REALLY WANT TO LOOK AT IT. I THINK WE ARE IN DENIAL.

By JustMe

January 11, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

I would like to ask everyone to pause and think about the posts here….

The problem with education overall becomes apparent. It is not the teachers - and I am not saying that every teacher is perfect. However, the basic problem really isn’t the teachers. Teacher quality really hasn’t changed much over the years.

The main problem that surfaces from these posts is primairly the education policies that have been put in place in recent years. These include NCLB, the Special Ed policies, etc. This is what has primarily changed over the years.

If you want to begin to turn this ship, please work to change these crazy educational policies. Get involved with your school board and contact the crazy Cox in the State of GA.

Recall a previous blog here that was a survey of teachers about their concerns. Even teachers recognize that NCLB is what is screwing up education.

By WFC

January 11, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

Ms. Cox is clueless but who is surprised at that. Certainly not this recently retired regular ed history teacher and former administrator.

My bona fides: very pro-special ed. Ask any of the special ed teachers at Chattahoochee H.S (1991-2001) or Northview H.S (2001-2006). I volunteered to team teach with special ed teachers and adapt my rigorous classes to their needs without any “dumbing down.” I volunteered for countless IEP meetings as a teacher and conducted many such meetings as an administrator. I mention all this to assure you that I’m certainly not out to bash sppecial ed.

However, one must be a fool to believe that the huge expenditures of money spent on special ed do not have an effect on higher performing students. Worth it? I honestly don’t know.

Let me provide a specific example of AP students being short-changed happening right now at Northview High School. It’s a situation that would NEVER be allowed to happen to special ed students. NEVER!

I got this info from my son, Beau, an AP US history student and a reliable source.

One of the AP teachers quit during the fall semester because he didn’t get the Head Wrestling Coach position. He was a mediocre at best AP teacher according to Beau’s friends in the coach’s class (Beau was in the other AP teacher’s class, lucky for him.) Anyway, the school’s solution was to dump the students from the defunct class into Beau’s class! I taught AP classes from 1981 to 2006 and can tell you that 30+ students in an AP class defeats the entire purpose of AP.

I have no personal ax to grind here since Beau and I discuss at length each day’s AP lesson. I sure feel sorry for those other kids who don’t have the luxury of having a dad who taught AP history for 25 years.

By Rural Georgia Mom

January 11, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

WFC - What time is best for me to send my daughter over to your house? Refresh yourself in AP Human Geography.

By Rural Georgia Mom

January 11, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

Fedup: We are in denial. Do you think this is state-wide? Or do you think there are places in Georgia that do not have this problem? I wonder if it is nation-wide?

By Gail

January 11, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

fedup:

There are a variety of reasons why kids don’t care. I think many reasons have to do with the mindset some people have about public education. For example, it’s “free”, therefore, less valuable; it’s “forced”, that is, I “have” to go (at least from age 6-16), therefore, I am less inclined to see why being educated may be a good idea. We also have these huge societal influences, like — “learning isn’t important; making money is” or “good grades are for losers.”

I think my school concept would help to change the ideas in our society about the value of an education. Maybe after a few years, the working schools would have 75% of the students and the non-willing 25%.
Also, children deserve a chance to change; most of us would not want to live permanently with some of the decisions we made in high school.

By V for Vendetta

January 11, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

Rural, it most likely IS nation-wide to some extent. ADA and IDEA are FEDERAL mandates. They cover sped classes in all 50 states.

By zoe

January 11, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

Rural Georgia Mom email me at zoemol@hotmail.com

I can offer APHG assistance.

By fedup

January 11, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

Every public school in Georgia is facing similar problems. The mandate to raise graduation rates is pushing high schools to dumb down classes and keep everyone in school no matter what it does to the learning environment. I know of a six year senior that returned to school this year. Just let him get his GED. He is too old to be in high school, but if he doesn’t graduate from high school he is a drop out. What does he have in common with the other kids of school age? We could spend some effort on encouraging these kids to explore a different type of education. Maybe GED would be a better option for some kids. This would not help those graduation rates and isn’t that what it is all about. What is the real value of a diploma these day?

By fedup

January 11, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

Patty, Maybe your daughter is doing better because she never belonged in special education. Maybe she was performing poorly in special ed. because that was the expectation.

Too many kids were classified as special ed because they were environmentally delayed. They are products of the environment in which they live.

Lisa B, You are dead on in your post. The number of children “exceeding expectations” has dropped because we are only worried about “meeting expectations”. Our children spend countless ours practicing for the CRCT. They don’t get exposed to anything outside of the standards which dictate the CRCT. No wonder we just “meet the standard”. This will be a nice little socialist state when everyone meets the same standard. We will not have gifted entrepreneurs, artist, musicians, scientist, etc. We are just happy to meet the standard. Cloning is alive and well in public education.

By Rural Georgia Mom

January 11, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

FEDUP: You are correct about the socialist cloning. Keep in mind that the systems are rewarded for “closing the gap.” “The gap” could potentially be widened if the top students excel and raise the standards. This is the definition of socialism - where the individual is neglected for the “common good.”

Also - with Georgia’s poor showing on the NAEP in math, along with the push by Kathy Cox toward additional “reform math”, especially at the HS level, we can also forget producing future accountants, engineers, architects, scientists, or math teachers.

By ironmaiden

January 11, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

WHERE IS SET???

I feel a need to re-share an interesting quote with incredible foresight:

“What I want to fix your attention on is the vast overall movement towards the discrediting, and finally the elimination, of every kind of human excellence — moral, cultural, social or intellectual. And is it not pretty to notice how ‘democracy’ (in the incantatory sense) is now doing for us the work that was once done by the most ancient dictatorships, and by the same methods? The basic proposal of the new education is to be that dunces and idlers must not be made to feel inferior to intelligent and industrious pupils. That would be ‘undemocratic.’ Children who are fit to proceed may be artificially kept back, because the others would get a trauma by being left behind. The bright pupil thus remains democratically fettered to his own age group throughout his school career, and a boy who would be capable of tackling Aeschylus or Dante sits listening to his coeval’s [of the same age] attempts to spell out A CAT SAT ON A MAT. We may reasonably hope for the virtual abolition of education when ‘I’m as good as you’ has fully had its way. All incentives to learn and all penalties for not learning will vanish. The few who might want to learn will be prevented; who are they to overtop their fellows? And anyway, the teachers — or should I say nurses? — will be far too busy reassuring the dunces and patting them on the back to waste any time on real teaching. We shall no longer have to plan and toil to spread imperturbable conceit and incurable ignorance among men.”

C. S. Lewis 1898 - 1963 quoteworld.org

By EducatorX3

January 11, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

Reading today’s topic, I feel like it is time to count my lucky stars! 1. I work for a system where all children are the focus of instructional decisions.

I am such a lucky duck!

By Love my 4 kids

January 12, 2008 3:07 AM | Link to this

Out of four sons, one (grown) child has ADHD, another has Aspbergers Syndrome and is gifted in math/computer programming and the other two are very good students. We have never taken one dime from the public school system. I knew from the beginning that our public school could not provide what I wanted for my children and their special needs so we found a private school that helped us some of the distance and when their resources lacked, we moved on to home schooling. My oldest, who has ADHD, still struggles with academics but manages to hold a part time job while attending college and will graduate debt free with a marketable skill. My eleven year old Aspbergers/gifted child has taught himself computer programming (C, C++, Java, Maya) and just for fun decided to make a 3D animation of the solar system “to scale” (he worked out the math from data in an astronomy book). He is also interested in robotics and recently participated in a First Lego League competition where he was the team programmer. My seven year old can read most anything and writes in cursive. He loves science and can tell you all about ancient history. Just the other day he was begging me to let him learn Latin like his older brothers. All of my children have been to England and Ireland and have climbed a volcano in Hawaii. Our next field trip will be to Athens, Greece. They can recite poetry and passages from the Bible. They are also pretty handy with a Wii. But most importantly, my children are a gift from God and I love them ALL dearly. I would never entrust them to anyone who thinks less.

By wwww

January 12, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

Excellent, excellent points on the problem that exists addressing the needs of gifted/advanced students.

This might be my biggest issue with my job. Ask me next week, and it will probably be something else.

Those of you who aren’t in education, here is what the gifted/advanced population is generally required to do in a class of mixed ability (which is an increasing practice all over the state): 1. help other students, who may or may not be labeled spec ed. Sometimes, teachers think they are doing a really great thing by ability pairing the highest performing students with those that need remediation. What a freaking joke. It only saddles the smart kid with one who needs help. THIS IS NOT THE JOB OF THE STUDENT.

Enough of the system that is really not addressing our top tier of students.
It is our gifted students that are getting left behind.

By wwww

January 12, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

EducatorX3: What fantasy system do you work in where this is the case? I would love to teach in that kind of environment.

By Rural Ga. Mom

January 12, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

To WWWW: Exactly. There sit my kids, listening to the admin. talk about “rigor” and “stay in school” at the same assembly. Total joke. The educrats are only fooling themselves. We have desperately tried to “afterschool,” with various assignments and REAL math (not reform math). But, place a child in a classroom for 7.5 hours per day, where no actual new instruction is presented, and they do not have the energy to start learning at 4:00 pm.

Love 4 my Kids: You are clearly doing the right thing for your kids. I should follow your example.

By love my 4 kids

January 13, 2008 2:41 AM | Link to this

One of the first games my eleven year old learned to play was Monopoly. He loved being the banker so he could practice making change and hand out land deeds. He was also good at figuring out the percentage of income tax, to the amazement of his friends. Once he had craftily targeted his land purchases for future monopolies, he was unbeatable. My purple and sky blues just couldn’t beat his greens and blues- plus Utilities. When I landed on Park Place with that large cherry red hotel towering over my humble iron, I had no choice but to pay up! Our Founding Fathers did not care for monopolies either. Especially government ones. In fact, they were willing to have a nice Boston Tea Party just to show the folks back home how they felt about the topic. And the rest, as they say, is history. The Constitution was written to shackle that junk yard dog, called Government, so that he could do his job of protecting the premises without biting the hand that feeds it. Well, not satisfied, that dog tugged and tugged and one day he broke loose and went and built himself a doghouse …uh.. a federally supported public school, right on top of that junk pile…uh… land fill, and the rest, as they say, is history. Parents would come by with their children every day, in hopes that the dog would protect them. Even though they were faithful to bring him his favorite dog biscuits, he nipped at their fingers as he greedily gulped down their offering. He sent them off with a growl, and the frightened parents and children were well aware that the junk yard dog was no longer chained, and no one was strong enough or brave enough to restrain him once more. Then one day, a mother of modest means and her young, shabbily dressed child walked to the junk yard..uh… land fill, with their supply of dog biscuits. “Mommy,” queried the child, “Why do we continue to come every day to feed this mean dog?” “I suppose we are afraid he might attack us if we don’t,” she said sadly. “But I thought his job was to protect us,” the daughter said earnestly. “He isn’t getting any more dog biscuits from me!” She let go of her mother’s hand and raced past the dog house..er.. public school.. with her mother following behind. Just then, another mother with her well-scrubbed, well-dressed toddler walked up with a fresh batch of Milkbones for the growling dog. He never noticed the two racing figures as they disappeared around the corner.

By Tranquility

January 13, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

Thank goodness I don’t live in GA. Not because of Cox. Not because of test scores. Rather, because if I lived in George, V for Vendetta might be my neighbor — or worse yet, my children’s teacher. Give me bottom-of-the-heap, Sweet Home Illinois any day of the week!

By Tranquility

January 13, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

One last thing… I thank God every day for my beautiful little “knuckle dragger” and her 3 “gifted” brothers. Each one of my beautiful children is as lovely and as valuable as the other. To those of you lamenting about the heaps of “benefits” being bestowed upon the unworthy “knucke draggers” of the world, at the expense of your “gifted” child’s future, I have one thing to say: I will pray for you. I will pray that God never bestow upon you the precious gift that is a special needs child. Their awe-inspiring gifts would be lost on you. And they would never receive the appreciation they deserve. Keep up your theoretical debates…this is America, after all. And by the way, V for Vendetta, education most certainly IS a RIGHT - not a privilege. Trust me, I’m a special ed lawyer.

By V for Vendetta

January 13, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Tranquility, thanks to advocates like YOU. Mind you, that’s not something I’d be bragging about. If you were on the front lines of education, you’d see what some kids do with their “right” to a free and public education — it’d make you sick.

A European model is more effective. It educates those who WANT education, those whose parents actually taught them the importance of an education. The rest go to a trade/technical school, where many of them are much happier. There is no easy solution, no win-win answer. However, in my mind, that would be better than the current set up.

To be honest, Tranquility, if you’re going to pray, I’d really rather you pray for some rain down here. We’re in the middle of a drought, you know.

By Namei

January 14, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Cox is an idiot. In poor performing schools, I’ve seen firsthand that the right amount of challenge helps average kids achieve up to the same High Motivated, High Achievement, and Gifted Levels. Teaching to the lowest common denominator is a nightmare for future generations, communities, and especially the workforce. Average kids won’t hit their true potential, High Achieving Average kids may dropout, gifted kids will dropout, and the lowest achievers will pass (sometimes struggling). How’s that for raising the Grad Rate? GA schools and their leadership scare the h*ll out of me. My son’s a classic underachieving, independent, challenging, gifted, and divergent thinker. He probably has an undiagnosed writing disorder (dysgraphia), too. Public school was outright damaging to a rare personality (these days) that shouldn’t be thwarted, so I pulled him out of his middle school. I’m now able to provide challenge, education, and apparently basic study skills. Up until 8th grade, he has never had to study for anything. That, in my opinion, is a sorry state of education when the curriculum is so easy he can just breeze through grade to grade. How does that help a kid in their future endeavors? Pulling him out was the best decision I ever made.

By Tranquility

January 14, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

V for Vendetta,

First, I don’t brag. My mom and dad (both teachers) raised me right. Second, I never said I was a child’s advocate. I merely said I was a special ed lawyer. Jump to conclusions much, buddy? Third, there are flights leaving for Europe every hour.

By V for Vendetta

January 15, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

Tanquility,

Sigh. I love how you suggest leaving, simply because I propose we change the system. I’m sorry if you disagree, but I strongly feel that some separation needs to be made between those who value education and those who do not. See my above apology if you misunderstood and thought I was referring to sped kids as “knuckle-draggers.”

I honestly didn’t mean to cause any confusion, but I DO have a harsh opinion towards those who disregard their education. I also DO believe that education should NOT be a right. Not everyone deserves such a wonderful thing. Many teachers would agree.

By Tranquility

January 15, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

V for Vendetta,

Sigh. Yawn.

I don’t want you to leave because you propose changing the system. I love the free exchange of ideas. That is what America is all about.

Rather, I suggest you leave because you seem mean. And I don’t like mean people.

Peace and equality for all.