Get Schooled

By catlady

December 24, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

IMHO, none of the tests we give (that are devised at the state level) are rigorous. If they were, can you imagine the howling that would ensue from various groups and individual parents? It behooves the state to make the tests as basic as possible. Remember, NCLB means no child can fail, right? (TiC laughter)

By Attn: Clayton Parents

December 24, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

How ironic that Lyle Harris mentions the Open Records act in his editorial against the school board as an Open Records act has CONFIRMED Rod Johnson’s wife Celeste Johnson has been illegally “double dipping”.

Put your money where you mouth is Lyle, (or Bridget or AJC Clayton reporter Megan Matteucci) and post a fax # so that you can see first hand the paystubs yourself.

Or are you afraid to post the fax number, because then you won’t have any excuse to CONTINUE to sit on the story?

By mindy

December 24, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this

I would love to take these tests! How would one go about doing so?

By DeKalb Lifer

December 24, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this

Hmm. So. If the current housing mortgage crisis isn’t a lesson in economics, what is. It’s almost like the powers that be prefer an uneducated consumer for high interest car and tv loans.

By Teacher

December 24, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

The curve the state uses on the scoring is ridiculous. I have a student that had less than 70% correct and the state scored his exam a 92.

By t williams

December 24, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this

Don’t you just wish that John Trotter and his various identities would give their politics of personal destruction against Rod and Celeste Johnson a rest!

In fact, why doesn’t John Trotter arrange for his puppet/Clayton County Board of Education Member Norreese Haynes take the economics test. Post that score!

My suggestion: a law requiring School Board Members to pass the tests given to 8th graders. That would do away with Norreese Haynes right there!

HO HO HO

By peaches

December 24, 2007 6:23 PM | Link to this

Who be the “powers that be”. What a crock that term is. It’s an excuse for people who don’t take advantage of the opportunities right in front of them and who want to be victims. You get a free education. Take advantage of it and stop whining and stop making grown adults out to be victims. These people are not stupid, they just made bad decisions, often out of greed. If there is no responsibility, there is no change. It’s not my fault. It not the fault of “the powers that be”. Its the fault of the people that have chosen a path of ignorant greed instead of responsible citizenship.

By L. King

December 24, 2007 7:24 PM | Link to this

Well back to the topic, There are many factors that contribute to the low passing rate. When I was teaching Econ, I had many students who were tired of taking test, so since the EOCT was just 15% they did not take it as serious and did not study the way they should. On the other hand, Econ is pretty hard to understand for a 12th grade student. In my experience many of my students were not exposed to the type of vocabulary that econ has. So when students read the test sometimes the wording was hard to understand. Third, the schools want to make sure that test are not worth a lot so the students can have a better time passing the class if you have a EOCT course. I support the EOCT being the new graduation test because I believe that focus in class would extremely improve. Student need instance gratification so having the test at the end of the course makes the most sense. It will keep teachers and students on top of their game.

By em

December 24, 2007 7:48 PM | Link to this

I am currently awaiting my econ students’ December EOCT results. Am I worried? Nah, because the State will continue to curve the hell out of this irrelevant test. Those students who made C’s in my course and posted a dismal raw score on the EOCT will make A’s on the test and those who failed both my class and the EOCT will make C’s. Then I’ll await my school’s administrators extoll to the local newspapers about how well our students are doing thus perpetuating this farce. As I have said before, the EOCT is meaningless and a complete waste of time. But hey, Bridget, somebody’s getting rich. Merry Christmas!

By Bud

December 25, 2007 4:49 AM | Link to this

Thanks for the test. I received my MBA in 1974 and I scored an 89.41 on the econ test. One wrong answer was just a transposition error. Something I always did at least once.

Quite a coincidence that you should make this test available at the same time I was surmising that Hillary’s statement that oil prices will drop if she is elected preys on the economic ignorance of the electorate.

I’m 63 and when I was in high school courses in economics were not offered in my area.

Thanks for the article and links. I’m going to take the other tests.

Bud

By DrRhino

December 25, 2007 6:25 AM | Link to this

I have been teaching economics at the high school level since the EOCT came into existence. I personally really like the test. I think the test questions are good questions, although they are a little wordy at times. The previous post is correct about the “curving” or “norming” of the score, but the actual test questions make a solid test of economic knowledge.

By WFC

December 25, 2007 8:15 AM | Link to this

The EOCT is an improvement over the GHSGT because it at least attempts to test what is actually taught in specific courses. However, it is seriously flawed because it is based on the public schools’ “one-size-fits-all” mentality.

Two examples. A couple of years ago, the American history EOCT was scheduled one day before the Advanced Placeement Exam, a real test of achievement. This was a waste of time for the AP students. The LOWEST grade on the EOCT test among my 40 students was 91%. Many of these students had never achieved above 75% on my demanding regular, teacher-made classroom tests. I went to my school and county administrators to get AP students exempted from the worthless (to them) EOCT. No go. Why? Their high scores made Northview and Fulton County look good. Sad beyond belief.

Example #2. My son recently completed AP American Lit and took the EOCT. I asked him about the test. He laughed and said that he was glad it counted 15% of his semester grade because it was the easiest test he had taken all year.

It’s a “shell game.” Pitiful.

By Bubba

December 25, 2007 8:45 AM | Link to this

Is this a test that all the 12th graders take? If it is, then you have to think about the purpose of the test- is it to assure that the kids learned the basics of economics or is it to show that they are ready for college. Only around 30% of the population has a college degree, so I would expect that a person with a college degree should get close to 100% on a high school test and a person with an MBA should get 100 easily. Ya’ll with college degrees are certainly in the upper half of the IQ distribution and mostly in the upper third - not everyone is smart enough to go to college nor do they need a high level of economics knowledge to function in our society - Standards should be appropriate for their purpose - we can easily raise them so high that only a very few pass them or so low that almost everyone passes them -the question is whether the test is appropriate for its purpose.

By lori

December 25, 2007 8:52 AM | Link to this

Where do I get the answers

By Jimmy

December 25, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

I was bein in de skool long time. iz know i be sartest than dos people.

By Frank

December 25, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this

When I was teaching economics was not taught until the senior year well after the EOCT that were given. I quit teaching in 2003 so I doubt that much has changed.

By Curious

December 25, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

If “L. King” actually taught Economics at one time, you may have part of your answer. I counted no fewer than four grammatical errors in the posting.

As a professor told me years ago, “sloppy, disorganized writing comes from sloppy, disorganized thinking.”

And if “Bubba” really believes that one “does not need a high level of economics knowledge to function,” I suggest a close examination of what caused the sub-prime mortgage meltdown and the world’s highest rate of public debt! Americans are clearly ignorant of even the most basic economic principles, and it’s taking a toll on the rest of the world.

Witness a presidential candidate saying she would raise taxes on oil companies in order to “lower the price of gasoline at the pump.”

Ha!

By DB

December 25, 2007 7:08 PM | Link to this

I see the test but I don’t see where you can check your answers. Does anybody know? I’m taking the history portion.

By DebG

December 26, 2007 12:54 AM | Link to this

My daughter took 10th grade biology which is one of the classes that ends with an EOCT. The test was administered at least 2 weeks before the end of the term, and since her school was on block scheduling, that meant they were being tested the equivalent of a month early. A lot of material can be taught, or at least reviewed, in that amount of time. How about actually giving them at the END OF THE COURSE????

By ron

December 26, 2007 8:04 AM | Link to this

WFC,my friend,Somehow,bragging that some of your student never achieved above a 75 on your teacher prepared tests leads me to believe that you’re not much of a teacher.How can you accept that students in your classroom are not learning?That’s what your test results are telling me.You are not teaching.In my organization,I would fire your butt and use the money I’m paying you to hire a teacher.

By Tony

December 26, 2007 8:33 AM | Link to this

Since I taught Chemistry and Physics, I started with the Physical Science test. According to the answer key provided, I missed 3 items. Two were legitimate - one because I didn’t take time to read the subscripts carefully. The other had to due with current in a lightbulb.

However, the third was incorrectly marked in the answer key. Question 65 should have the answer B. Mistakes like this reduce the validity and reliability of the instrument.

By em

December 26, 2007 8:53 AM | Link to this

Ron, it could be that WFC is a great teacher who is challenging but his students are not keeping their end of the bargain (in otherwords, they are not studying). At least that has been my experience lately but I digress and “lazy students” is a topic for another blog. I agree with DebG in that the EOCT should be given at the END of the course. The EOCT was given two weeks prior to the end of the semester where I teach as well. After the Economics EOCT, my seniors shut down. In their minds, everything taught after the test was irrelevant. Also, a testing schedule is implemented in order to administer the exam; this short changes other classes. I am sure that if the State decided to audit actual seat hours spent in class, the DOE would find that numerous schools,especially those block scheduling, skirt this with chronic interruptions (EOCT administration being one of them).

By Jeff

December 26, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

My answers and notes on the US History test:

1)b 2)b 3)a 4)a 5)d Note: NOTHING along the lines of the answers can be assumed from given data. 6)c 7)d 8)c Note: No ‘good’ answer here 9)b Note: Oh come on! The years are given!!! 10)d 11)a Note: More of a reading comprehension question than SS!!! 12)a 13) No question 14) No question 15)a 16)a 17)b 18)c 19)b Note: Leading question designed to indoctrinate to certain modern political views. 20)c 21)c 22)b 23)c Note: Could be b 24)a 25)a 26)c // Note: What about MA, CT, RI???? 27)b 28) No question 29) No question 30) No question 31)c 32)a Note: Would you hear about a similar comment by Lee??? 33)a 34)d 35)d Note: Again, question does not provide info needed for true answer. 36)b 37)b 38)a 39)a 40)c 41)d 42)c 43) No question 44) No question 45) No question 46)b 47)b 48)b 49)d 50)b 51)c 52)d Note: Another leading question designed to indoctrinate to modern political beliefs. 53)b 54)a 55)b 56)d 57)c 58)c Note b is leading 59) 60) 61) 62) 63)b 64)d 65)c 66)d Note: Another leading question dsigned to indoctrinate modern political beliefs. 67)c 68)c 69)a 70)a 71)c 72)b 73)a 74)b 75)a 76) 77) 78) 79)d 80)a 81)a 82)a 83)c 84)a Note: Question leads reader to assume US Government at fault for causing Pearl Harbor 85)a 86)d 87)a 88)c 89)b Note: Question could lead reader to assume US at fault for PG1 90)a

Note that I have not yet graded this, I just wanted to post my observations from this test.

Overall, I found it to be EXTREMELY cursory, slightly confusing, somewhat inaccurate (there were at least two questions whose graphs could not lead the reader to the correct response) and overal extremely depressing.

They freakin’ GAVE THE YEARS on the one question that wanted the events to be put in chronological order!!!!!

By holdingAJCaccountable

December 26, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this

Thanks Ron for illustrating how absoultely clueless some in the business world are when it comes to teaching. I guess if you ran a private school you’d use the Enron model, demanding teachers like WFC make cupcake tests that everybody makes an A on, so you could keep the paying parents happy, then cash out right before the EOCT that everybody is going to fail.

With that money you save firing WFC, you might want to consider hiring a data analyst who can explain to you that when the lowest grade among 40 students is a 91, somebody is doing something right by creating demanding tests to prepare for the final test.

Better yet, step out of the business world and go teach in a classroom, where you can’t fire the students who refuse to perform. Doesn’t exactly fit your business model now does it? Who just didn’t turn in their homework for the tenth day in a row? Who just got put back in Ron’s classroom by the principal, less than ten minutes after he started a brawl in the classroom? Yes Toto, I don’t think Ron is in Kansas anymore.

By Bridget Gutierrez

December 26, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this

mindy: I linked to the tests that are available online above, if you’d like to take them. These are posted on the State Department of Education’s Web site. But remember, they’re several years old. So the tests may have changed since then.

Here’s the URL, in case you’re having problems with the link: http://public.doe.k12.ga.us/ci_testing.aspx?PageReq=CITestingEOCTAlt.

The answer keys for the exams can be found there as well.

By Bridget Gutierrez

December 26, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

lori and DB: Try this URL: http://public.doe.k12.ga.us/ci_testing.aspx?PageReq=CITestingEOCTAlt

The link for the answer key is at the bottom of the list of exams.

By Bridget Gutierrez

December 26, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

Bubba: Currently, students are only required to take an EOCT if they have taken one of the eight specified courses, such as economics. If the State Board of Education replaces the graudation tests with the EOCT, then all students will have to pass them to earn a diploma.

By catlady

December 26, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this

Perhaps what we SHOULD do is allow kids to take the EOCT BEFORE they take the class. If they score high enough, they could CLEP (Or GHSLEP) out of the course, getting credit for it. Of course, many would still want to take the course, even if they knew the material, to fatten up their HOPE GPAs. I see classmates of my daughter’s, who scored 4s and 5s on AP but choose to retake the class in college to fatten their GPAs.

By Lee

December 26, 2007 6:05 PM | Link to this

Of all the EOCT’s, Economics is the one which requires the most deductive reasoning skills. Skills that most high schoolers have not developed yet.

So, if you cut the tax rate, you will increase economic activity? Heck, we have Economists debating that theory even today.

By luvs2teach

December 26, 2007 6:37 PM | Link to this

I skimmed several tests: Physical Science and Biology (of course), History (Jeff - #9 - OMG!! LOL), and Economics.

My biggest thought about why kids fail is that kids think nothing of cheating on their homework (copying from one another is RAMPANT - and they think its OK) so failing a test is not a surprise - garbage in, garbage out, knowledge-wise.

One thing I noticed is that there are many graphs in those tests - this is not something I take issue with at all. Graphing is something I really work on with my kids - they have little difficulty creating a graph, but they have major trouble interpreting them. I think some see graphs, mentally check out, and then “charlie” out and go on to the next question.

I know the Science GHSGT has been accused of asking “trivia” style questions in years past - not questions that show an understanding of key themes and an ability to apply it, but specific, objective, single-answer, low-level knowledge type quesitons. I saw few of those on any of the tests (but I was skimming).

One thing I did notice is some questions that could be considered culturally biased, particularly to ESOL students. For example, many of our ESOL students may not know where Minnesota is or know anything about its climate - my neighborhood high school has a large ESOL population, so questions like that do concern me.

Finally, I noticed many of the questions on all of the tests were unnecessarily wordy, which makes them reading comprehension tests and not subject tests. Granted, we would expect our high school students to have achieved a certain level of reading ability - unfortunately that’s not the case. They need to be kept from high school until they can read at a high school level - but that’s a subject for another blog.

Other than that, the tests seemed ok - neither of my children had any trouble with the ones they needed to take. We look at them as easy, yet most of us are looking at them with post high school educated eyes (any of you non-science folks brave enough to try science? Let me know how you did).

As far as making them more meaningful, so the students will take them more seriously - perhaps allowing the teacher to count the raw score for 15% instead of the scaled score - or(and some folks won’t like this) not getting credit for the class unless a minimum score on the EOCT is achieved. I really like catlady’s suggestion of letting kids take them as a sort of CLEP - pass it, and you get credit. That would’ve motivated not just me, but both of my kids, too.

By catlady

December 26, 2007 8:27 PM | Link to this

luvs—do students get credit for the course without passing the EOCT??? If so, why the heck give it??? (besides to give employment to folks at the state dept who constantly have to revise the questions and rescore the tests, of course).

By DB

December 26, 2007 10:35 PM | Link to this

(Not the same DB that posted earlier — I’m the one with children in a private school.)

These tests were utterly fascinating and depressing at the same time!

OK, here are my scores: Economics: 25 minutes, 98% US History: 30 minutes, 97% American Literature: 40 minutes, 96% (and since when are directions to assembling knock-down furniture considered LITERATURE?!?!?!?!?!)

My college freshman son took the US history, and after AP History (US and World) two and three years ago, he finished it in 25 minutes with a 100%. His school didn’t use the EOCT tests, but he wishes they had!

By JustMe

December 27, 2007 1:01 AM | Link to this

Of course the State EOCT scores are lower compared to the GHSGT scores. This is because the higher level students generaly can take courses that don’t have EOCT. However, all students take the GHSGT.

By phh

December 27, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this

Bridget - Bubba is right. All students do take the Economics EOCT because all students must take and pass an Economics class in order to get a high school diploma per STATE LAW! They don”t necessarily take it as seniors. Some systems teach it earlier, but all Georgia students must take it. State law also perscribes that all students must pass US History, US Governemnt, and a course in World History or World Geography. So ALL students take the US History EOCT as well, even students in AP because they have to earn the credit for a diploma.

By luvs2teach

December 27, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

catlady - I’m not sure, but if the EOST is only 15% of a course, you could fail it (let’s say with a 69) and still mathematically pass - especially when certain percentages of grades are based on things you do - like homework graded for completion - rather than showing things you know.

Neither of my kids ever had a problem with the EOCT (my son loves them because they save his grade - he’s not so good at the “things you do” part of his grade - he finds mindless routine HW a waste of his time, LOL), but I’ve never seen anything from the school that says “fail the EOCT, fail the class - even if you have a passing grade.”

By Bridget Gutierrez

December 31, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

phh: You are correct. Economics/Business/Free Enterprise is a required course. However, two AP courses (microeconomics or macroeconomics) may be used as a substitute for that requirement. The same is true for U.S. history — an AP course may be substituted.