Get Schooled

By jim d

December 18, 2007 8:02 AM | Link to this

Bridget,

I really don’t care to go here today but I’m confident JM will oblige you.

By Lisa B.

December 18, 2007 10:29 AM | Link to this

This happened in Dougherty County several times. One teacher friend received ZERO paychecks for a few months until the difference was paid back! Other friends received half checks for awhile.

I would die!

By Lee

December 18, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this

Let’s put this in perspective. $160,000 error over five years involving 77 individuals with a minimum error of $36 and a maximum error of $17,000. Assuming that the maximum error took place over the entire five years, that still averages only $280 gross and perhaps $170 net per month.

Not much. Consider also that the employees received yearly increases in salary.

What about audits? Typically, they would pull a sample of payroll records and compare to the pay scales. However, considering that the error rate was only 1%, the probablility of identifying this error by statistical sampling is very remote.

The bottom line is that they caught the error, are getting restitution, and are putting a new payroll system in place that should prevent this from happening again.

I really don’t see anything to get excited about in this story.

By nadine

December 18, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this

How could the teachers not know they were being overpaid? Especially by $17,000! Yikes! If I saw one extra cent on my paycheck I’d shout “Hallelujah!”

By Lisa B.

December 18, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

I think I’d have noticed $280 per month. Still, there are probably some who don’t pay that much attention. One could get a step increase and percentage increase at the same time, and maybe a higher degree and expect to see a nice raise. I typically sit down with a calculator and crunch the numbers to double check. I’ve heard about too many errors like this. If its not my money, I don’t want it.

By V for Vendetta

December 18, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this

Lee,

You’re absolutely right. Although, as nadine posted, if I were to receive an extra penny I would notice and thank all the gods I could list off the top of my head. Of course, I’d eventually have to pay it back. Then I would quickly curse all of those same gods!

Damn you Zeus! You took my extra Benjamins!

By Attn: Clayton Parents

December 18, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

If the AJC is going to report on teachers “accidently” being overpaid in Fulton, why not report a Clayton employee deliberately and ILLEGALLY being overpaid? Especially when an Open Records request has confirmed that Celeste Johnson, school board member Rod Johnson’s wife, has been illegally “double dipping” (being paid her Clayton salary while away serving at the Georgia General Assembly)

Can anybody at the AJC explain why THAT isn’t being reported, given that this has been confirmed by an Open Records request?

By Jeff

December 18, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

Don’t know about y’all, but this man on salary at least scans the stub to make sure the number is right! Did it even when I was teaching. (What can I say, I lived in Albany!)

Now, as for what should happen: I’m gonna side with: It was Fulton’s error, not the teachers’. Fulton has manned up to its mistakes and is putting a system in place to stop the error from recurring. Issue resolved. They should NOT demand that someone else fix their error.

By teacher

December 18, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

Fulton BOE has not put a system in place to correct this error. They have put a new system in place that most likely found the error. Big Difference. The new SAP system will break down and give more information on the payroll stubs so that employees can keep up better with thier pay. Up to now the payroll stub just listed the full amount of extra pay and did not break it down. If a teacher was getting paid for several extra task it just listed a total amount. The teacher had to call payroll and request them to break it down every pay period. Some teachers have extra pay just some months and not others so it can get complicated. Of course they should check and make sure what they are getting paid for but I could see if they were getting different stipends and reinbusment pay all the time where it could be overlooked by them and the system. Again, it was the systems error. Not sure if they should be required to pay it back or not.

By teacher

December 18, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

Fulton BOE has not put a system in place to correct this error. They have put a new system in place that most likely found the error. Big Difference. The new SAP system will break down and give more information on the payroll stubs so that employees can keep up better with thier pay. Up to now the payroll stub just listed the full amount of extra pay and did not break it down. If a teacher was getting paid for several extra task it just listed a total amount. The teacher had to call payroll and request them to break it down every pay period. Some teachers have extra pay just some months and not others so it can get complicated. Of course they should check and make sure what they are getting paid for but I could see if they were getting different stipends and reinbusment pay all the time where it could be overlooked by them and the system. Again, it was the systems error. Not sure if they should be required to pay it back or not.

By JustMe

December 18, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this

I agree with Jeff. It was a mistake on the part of the County and not the teacher.

The total amount is much less than the waste by most large school systems. Why would they ‘go after’ the teachers? They should chalk it up to their own mistake and move on.

By jim d

December 18, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this

It must be nearing year end and some folks have obviously been drinking too much water.

As Ben Franklin once said: “In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is freedom, in water there are bacteria.”

In a number of carefully controlled trials, scientists have demonstrated that if we drink 1 liter of water each day, at the end of the year we would have absorbed more than 1 kilo of Escherichia coli, (E. coli) - bacteria found in feces. In other words, we are consuming 1 kilo of poop.

However, we do NOT run that risk when drinking wine & beer (or tequila, rum, whiskey or other liquor) because alcohol has to go through a purification process of boiling, filtering and/or fermenting.

Remember: Water = Poop, Wine = Health

Therefore, it’s better to drink wine and talk stupid, than to drink water and be full of chit.

There is no need to thank me for this valuable information:———— I’m doing it as a public service.

By Lee

December 18, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

Justme and Jeff: So you don’t think they should be required to return the money?

For the sake of argument, let’s go with your scenario. Later on, a teacher notices that they are getting “a little extra” on each paycheck. However, instead of reporting the error, the teacher knows that past practice has allowed other teachers to keep this money. So now, the question becomes, What incentive does a teacher have to report payroll errors in their favor? Answer; absolutely none.

Don’t teachers have a Code of Ethics? Seems to me that would apply here.

By jim d

December 18, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

JM,

Think if the bank gave you back too much that it would slide?

I don’t think so! While I’m certain keeping it would not be the morally correct thing to do, I kinda suspect it may even be criminal.

By jim d

December 18, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

Does anyone else see a corelation with this dilema?

That folks that complain so often and vociferously on this blog about students in general having little or no moral fiber, are today claiming that teachers should not give back ill gotten gains.

Ain’t that somthin?

By Jeff

December 18, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this

Lee:

An error on your part does not an emergency on my part make.

I don’t care who it is - and I even do this with myself (and have, just the other day!) - if you make a mistake, you do what YOU can to fix it. But if someone else profited, it is not THEIR problem.

By jim d

December 18, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this

Look at it this way jeffery,

Some teachers got an interest free loan that they just need to repay.

I find it morally reprehensible for anyone to even suggest they not pay it back. (as if they will really have any choice)

By Lee

December 18, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

That’s fine Jeff; rationalize it anyway you want. The past couple of posts have spoken volumes about your character.

As for me, each morning I have to look at the face in the mirror… and then place a razor to my throat. I think I would prefer to be happy with the face in the mirror. Think about it.

By jim d

December 18, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

Main Entry:theft

Pronunciation: \ˈtheft\

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English thiefthe, from Old English thīefth; akin to Old English thēof thief

Date: before 12th century

1 a: the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it b: an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property.

Hmmm, sounds like this might fit.

By Jeff

December 18, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

jim:

Your son - who is a senior - earns a 10 on his final. If he fails this class, he cannot graduate.

Teacher makes a mistake and puts it in the gradebook as a 100.

Your son graduates and goes to college, after taking a year off.

He is within one year of finishing his degree when his former teacher realizes her mistake.

Now, what should happen? Should the school invalidate his HS diploma, thereby kicking him out of college (because you must have a HS diploma to be in college)?

Or should the school adopt the same attitude I have of ‘it was our mistake, and it is our problem. You shouldn’t suffer the consequences of our mistake.’?

By jim d

December 18, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this

Your mistake is comparing a diploma with cash that belongs to taxpayers jeff.

Quit drinking the water—you’re sounding full of it.

By Jeff

December 18, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

Lee:

Case in point:

I received an email recently telling me that a draft was coming out of my account for some antivirus software, but that I could cancel it within x number of days.

I closed the email and promptly forgot about it.

Until I checked my balance a couple of weeks later and realized that the money had been taken out of my account.

Now, I haven’t used this software in at LEAST 5 months, and don’t intend to use it ever again.

But the draft coming out was something that I could have stopped and by my own negligence did not.

The software company profitted, and I am left wondering if I am going to have enough money to get gas to get to work this week.

However, this is NOT the software company’s problem.

It is mine.

The same can be said of the Fulton County saga, with the software company being the teachers and the County being me.

By jim d

December 18, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

Don’t go where you are about to.

Remember how badly underpaid teachers are (according to some bloggers) brfore telling me they don’t notice any incremental increase in their take home. The difference is that they knew! and you will never ever convince me they didn’t.

By Jeff

December 18, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

jim:

Are not those teachers taxpayers as well?

Do teachers not spend their own money for classroom materials? Should they not be reimbursed for this?

Who is drinking the water now, my friend?

By jim d

December 18, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

Obviously you have single handly added to the drought problem.

By Tony

December 18, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

The person who commented on the moral fiber of the teachers is right on the mark. If I receive too much change from the store clerk, I return the portion given to me. I do not want to profit from someone else’s mistake.

In the realm of school boards, it is tragic for such a mistake to be made, but the money did not belong to the employee. The article stated that generous repayment terms could be arranged.

Jim D, thanks for the info about wine, beer and water. This will help out my arguments with my wife about the health benefits of my choice of beverages.

By jim d

December 18, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

You dipstick —you authorized the withdrawl taxpayers didn’t.

If you fail to see any difference there, I suspect no one would ever convince you that willfully and knowingly taking and keeping something that isn’t yours is actually stealing. (well maybe one day a judge will)

By Lee

December 18, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

Jim D, my wife teaches in the after school program and her pay varies from month to month - depending on how many hours she works. Other teachers get stipends for various duties (such as coaching) that can alter their monthly pay.

I’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt that many of these 77 teachers did not realize they were getting extra pay. If the extra pay were put in place during the annual merit increase, it further complicates things. That said, the person who got the $17k would be hard pressed to convince me that they didn’t know.

Anyway, it’s a moot point. The error was identified and they will have to reimburse the extra monies they recieved.

Jeff, holy cow. Your responses are akin to the movie scene in which a football player gets whacked and the trainer asks him “How many fingers am I holding up?” to which the player replies “Blue.”

Our prisons are full of people who can rationalize their actions. Still doesn’t make it right.

By Jeff

December 18, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

jim:

Only through my negligence did I authorize the withdrawal. I had ZERO intention of allowing it.

The same can be said of Fulton County.

It was Fulton County’s own NEGLIGENCE that produced the error, and therefore the employee is NOT responsible for his employer’s NEGLIGENCE.

By Jeff

December 18, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

Lee:

I am not ‘rationalizing’ anything.

The only wrong being committed here is that Fulton County is trying to make other people pay for its own mistakes.

Individual Responsibility is a value I’ve long held dear.

Sometimes that means you have to own up to your mistakes and take a loss.

By Lee

December 18, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this

::sigh::

I don’t know why I even try, but here goes:

Jeff, consider this. You get your credit card statement with a balance of $100. You mistakenly write your check for $125. According to your way of thinking, the credit card company has no moral obligation to credit the extra $25 to your account or to return it to you. It was your mistake, right? If you demand a refund you are trying to make other people pay for your mistakes, right?

I mean, Individual Responsibility sometimes means you have to own up to your mistakes and take a loss, right?

By Jeff

December 18, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this

Lee:

Believe it or not, I HAVE taken just such a hit.

Like you said, my mistake, my problem.

By Lee

December 18, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this

Jeff, I’ve done it as well. Difference is, I’ve gotten MY money back.

By catlady

December 18, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this

Well, no, I am not surprised that the teachers did not notice it. Teachers have so many (seemingly capricious) deductions to their checks, it is difficult to be sure you are being paid correctly unless you are pretty vigilant.

I am pretty surprised that the CO did not discover it for so long however. Most COs have lots of chiefs for us poor Indians.

Unless the overpayment was the result of fraud on the part of the teachers, which should be prosecuted, the county should correct its mistake as of the next check and not worry about recovering the money from the teachers, IMHO. However, any CO employee with responsibility to be sure these things are correct should be disciplined for their lack of oversight.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

December 18, 2007 8:09 PM | Link to this

Again, why won’t someone from the AJC explain why you’ll report Fulton teachers “accidently” being overpaid, but not a Clayton school board member’s wife deliberately being overpaid? If this was a MACE members wife, in there any doubt that the AJC would be all over this?

But because it’s a MACE opponent’s wife the AJC is just going to refuse to cover it? Is there anybody with journalistic integrity at the AJC who is willing to come on the blog and defend that decision, especially considering the fact that an Open Records request has confirmed that Rod Johnson’s wife, Celeste Johnson, has been illegally “double dipping” from the school board while away at the General Assembly?

Again, if the AJC is truly “objective” why cover one and not the other?

By Burley Bob

December 18, 2007 10:22 PM | Link to this

Why DOES the AJC staff ignore the situation with Celeste Baker Johnson, Rod Johnson’s legislator-wife who is clearly and illegally double-dipping and being paid an inordinately high salary by the Clayton County School System? Is the AJC that biased? By the way, there were several serious errors in Megan’s article in Sunday’s paper — but I am sure that she, being a little cub reporter recently transplanted from New Jersey, is very proud that her by-line finally made the front page of the AJC. She is willing to write the biased accounts that her bosses have apparently ordered. Movin’ on up!

By jim d

December 19, 2007 7:28 AM | Link to this

Cat,

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t everything itemized on your pay stubs??

I’d say at best a few of these folks may have only been quilty of ignorance or indifference, But there is little doubt that more than a few knew and failed to bring it to their emploers attention. What I find amusing is that I too have employees that would do the same thing and these employees are the very ones that notice if there is a 5 cent descrepency if it goes the other way.

By Tony

December 19, 2007 8:13 AM | Link to this

Jim D (and others) - Regarding pay stubs our county reports only a gross pay amount. It is not itemized. In my school, we have about 20 people who are paid for extra hours for after-school duties. The hours vary from month to month, so their gross pay would vary. There is also a one month delay in the pay. These reasons support what Catlady says about teachers/staff not realizing they may have been overpaid.

A few years ago, a very good friend of mine was underpaid for several years. When he found out he met with the appropriate administrative folks. They balked at his request for reimbursement saying it was his fault for not finding the error sooner. It was appalling to me that our school system would take such a stance, yet they would also have gone after and accidental overpayments. Ultimately, the friend was reimbursed for the lost wages.

Honor and integrity are values that we should all demonstrate. When we do not act with integrity, we are undermining our own reputation. It is a shame that so many people seem to be adopting greed as a way of life. What does this say about our society?

By jim d

December 19, 2007 8:30 AM | Link to this

Thanks Tony,

I do find that rather amazing though. It would make an accounting nightmare of finding an error, it would be like me lumping OT with regualr salary on a pay stub, making it a real bi*ch to locate any mistakes. I can’t help but wonder if this is done by design? (know what I mean?)

Oh, and you’re welcome but as I said there was no need for thanks it was done as a public service. :-)

CHEERS

By Lee

December 19, 2007 8:37 AM | Link to this

*The character of a man may be measured by his actions when no one is looking.”

I’m willing to concede that many of the 77 employees did not know they were being overpaid. Undoubtedly, there were some who knew. It’s a moot point.

What is distressing to me is that some of you who frequent this blog and preach about ethics, cheating, and how actions have consequenses see nothing wrong with keeping the money.

One of the key tenets of the Fraud Theory or Fraud Triangle is the concept of rationalization. Those who say “It’s the county’s fault for paying them too much. They shouldn’t have to pay it back” are trying to rationalize their actions.

Or, put another way, if you want to be considered “professionals”, act like professionals.

Honor and integrity, indeed.

By jim d

December 19, 2007 8:55 AM | Link to this

Well said Lee.

I think it would serve us all well to remember that “we teach what we live.”

By jim d

December 19, 2007 9:08 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

You bring to mind an old yiddish proverb that I learned growing up on the farm. It goes something like this; “If you don’t want to do something, one excuse is as good as another.”

Why not just say “I wouldn’t want to give it back” rather than attempting to justify stealing?

By just a teacher

December 19, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this

It does not surprise me in the least that FC made such an error and that many teachers didn’t notice. Yes, our paystubs are itemized, but not in any useful way. At some times, I’ve earned as many as five different stipends, all of which are labeled “ADD’L COMP.” I also have a school bookkeeper who occasionally forgets to add a stipend one month and doubles up the next.

I definitely agree that the teachers should pay back the money. I am concerned, however, about the fact that these employees have been taxed on this income. It’s most likely a small amount, but if they have to repay FC, they should get back the difference in their taxes.

Side note: FC overpaid me once (by $8000 in a single month - I noticed it pretty fast) and payroll was floored that I reported it to them.

By jim d

December 19, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

JAT,

Good point on the tax liability and I agree that it should not cost the teachers.

By Old School

December 19, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

In the days before computers, the then bookkeeper made errors on the paychecks of 6 teachers. I was one of the overpaid and there were several who were underpaid. The total amount was such that it raised no eyebrows. Our school board decided to just accept the overpayments and make up the underpayments because it had been the bookkeeper’s fault. The next year those of us who were overpaid did not see our pay raise until the discrepency was corrected. It did not hurt nearly as much as a total and immediate repayment. That bookkeeper was a pro at making huge errors and was replaced soon after this incident.

By Lee

December 19, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this

Teacher, the county SHOULD amortize the overpayment in the employee’s Current Income section of the paystub which will lower the employee’s current period pay and subsequently, the tax liability.

If they take it out as a deduction or if they require the employee to reimburse by personal check (for example), the taxes will probably be incorrect.

So, payroll was surprised when you reported an $8000 overpayment? Hmmm, combine that comment with other comments about the lack of detail on FC’s paystubs and I would say there may be a problem much larger than the original 77 employees of this story.

By Jeff

December 19, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

OldSchool:

If they’re going to force somone else to pay for their mistakes, I could see letting it happen as you describe.

I still say that they shouldn’t force someone else to pay for their mistakes though.

By jim d

December 19, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

Old school,

Just out of curiousity. Who caught and reported the error?

The book keeper? The underpaid? or the overpaid?

I’d almost be willing to wager it was those that were under paid. :-)

By jim d

December 19, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

Lee,

As a payroll deduction it can be taken out before taxes. Which would then settle the tax issue.

By jim d

December 19, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this

ROTFLMFAO,

Jeff your determination is amazing.

Remind me though to never hand you the keys to my car. Hell, you’d feel just fine keeping it and not expect me to report it stolen.

By DB

December 19, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this

I’m with Old School on this one — the teachers had nothing to do with the error, however, they have been receiving money that didn’t belong to them. Between overtime, summer school, coaching, afterschool activities, etc., etc., I can see the money getting lost in the shuffle, and I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I’d like to think that most of the people teaching our children are basically honest. (If not, then what does that say about us, as parents, that we are willing to turn our children over to people that we don’t trust?)

Since it took ‘em 5 years (holy cow, now there’s financial controls for you!) to find the mistake, I think they need to suck it up and figure that it’s going to take ‘em 5 years to get it back. Pay increases may not be going in their pocket for the next few years. Hardly anyone’s budget, especially a teacher’s. could support a more aggressive repayment plan.

Of course, there’s the problem of what to do if/when the teacher quits before the repayment is completed …

By catlady

December 19, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

Part of the problem, too is TRS. It is a mess to get anything straightened out with them (they get a percentage monthly, so folks have overpaid into it, but you have got to figure in interest, etc.)

When I moved to Alabama (Alabama!) briefly in the 1970’s, I was astounded by my paycheck and went tot he CO to point out that maybe they thought I had finished my masters (I was a course short) because my check was so much higher than in GA (!?) but I was assured that it was correct. They said they had never had anyone complain about too big a check…

Now, I agree that if someone’s check is hundreds of dollars too high, they certainly should have noticed and reported that. Remember, however, that counties give differing amounts of local pay in addition to state pay, and these vary from year to year as well.

By Old School

December 19, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

Several folks caught the error (over & underpaid and the bookkeeper). Our contracts do not have the specific salary figure printed on them. Only local supplements are spelled out in dollar figures on a separate sheet attached to the contract. This X-ing in the salary block was done to allow mid-year raises or other salary adjustments to be made without reissuing a new contract…at least that’s how it was explained. Our check stubs had a column for “Additional Pay” and one for “Other Deductions” but unless you kept a copy of the state salary schedule, it was very difficult to know if your check was accurate each month. I was, at the time, traveling to various meetings across the state and no two months brought in the same money.

As one of the overpaid, I did indeed “repay” the overage throughout the next year. All our salaries were corrected for the following year and since. Our school board made it as painless as possible for all concerned. The bookkeeper left on her own accord.

It was never a question for me to repay or “keep” the overage. I would have returned what wasn’t mine as I do when a clerk gives me too much change. I rather like sleeping well at night with a clear conscience.

By just a teacher

December 19, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

Ooh, I hadn’t even thought about TRS! If any of those overpaid were nearing retirement, it could affect the way their base is calculated. Sheesh. Gotta love FC. Anyway, I have a feeling this is why they are upgrading their accounting system…better late than never.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

December 19, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this

Why did Bridget even bother with posting AJC contact info if reporters won’t respond to legitimate questions? Again, why is the AJC reporting “accidental” overpayments in Fulton, but sitting on deliberate and illegal overpayments to a school board member’s wife in Clayton?

You would think with all the coverage about SACS and Clayton they’d love to jump on it, especially since an Open Records has confirmed this is happening.

Is it because the board member in question, Rod Johnson, is an opponent of MACE? It’s one thing for editors to have a bias. It’s an entirely different thing altogether that reporter ignore relevant information in an important story.

Now if anyone can post as to why, in the midst of a SACS investigation, it is not relevant that a school board member’s wife is illegally double dipping, please enlighten us. Otherwise, one can only conclude that pressure needs to be brought to bear on the AJC to be more objective in their reporting.

Even if you dislike MACE, I would think one must admit this is a legitimate inquiry.

By Elaine

December 21, 2007 9:30 AM | Link to this

Here’s the deal. The “error” didn’t look like an error at all to the people who received the money. This is what happened:

Teachers who had worked part time or partial years who then went full time 5 years ago, were extended contracts at the pay step (year of experience) they thought they earned. In other words, people were given a step increase after a partial year or part-time full year. It’s a sticky, detailed rule, apparently, that you don’t get a step increase unless you work full time, full year.

These teachers were extended legal, binding contracts to be paid at a particular pay step that looked right to them (sticky rule aside). They performed the work and received the pay. To demand it back now and say that the initial contract—five years ago—was wrong is simply ridiculous. It was the system’s fault. Don’t even ask what a school system will do to a teacher for breaking a contract…

And another thing: That system has a multi-million dollar budget. $160K over 5 years is a tiny drop in a tiny bucket over which they’re creating a serious morale problem among teachers. All they’d have to do is eliminate one administrator downtown for one year and they’ve solved their problem. How about the one who oversaw the faulty payroll system?

By Lee

December 21, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

Elaine, I’ve been one of the most vocal advocates of the teachers paying the money back.

If the matter were a simple error, input a wrong rate into the payroll system for example, then I would continue to assert that the employees reimburse the overpayment.

However, if the teachers were paid according to the pay grade pursuant to their employment contract, then I don’t think Fulton County has any legal recourse to recoup the overpayment and the teachers shouldn’t have to pay it back.

Thanks for the additional info.

By mindy

December 21, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this

Wow Elaine! If that is the way it happened then the teachers absolutely should not pay it back! If the contract said that is what they were to be paid correlated to the pay scale, then that is what they should have been paid. End of story…no question.

By Elaine

December 23, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this

Yes, Mindy and Lee. That is exactly what happened.

The paper doesn’t always give all the details…

I know one of these 77 teachers personally and what I described above is exactly what happened.

They offerred her a contract at step 7 five years ago, but now are saying that was wrong; she should have been at step 5. SO, they’re immediately bumping her down two steps AND demanding that she pay back what they have calculated to be over $8K.

These people got contracts, signed them, worked them, and were paid what the contracts said. NOW the system is going back and saying the contracts for the last 5 years have been wrong, so the teachers should pay the money back. This is absolutely ridiculous.

By Lee

December 24, 2007 6:16 AM | Link to this

The paper doesn’t always give all the details…

Yeah, we tend to forget that at times. Most people probably don’t realize how bad the news is until you have first hand knowledge of a story and then see how it is reported in the media.

By jim d

December 24, 2007 7:13 AM | Link to this

Elaine,

While in your friends case I tend to agree,allow me to point out that he/she is only 1 case. And even then, when one already has a contract in force they should read their contracts to assure a new contract will supercede the existing one.

Granted this may have been an oversight by both parties. However, an enforceable contract apparently was in place. In my opinon both parties should bare the cost of making it right. I would also say that it would appear the school system is in fact baring part of the expense in that it is offering teachers a pretty easy re-payment plan, interest free. This really does sound like an equitable solution to this issue.

By jim d

December 24, 2007 7:26 AM | Link to this

One last point,

I must assume that since it was not all local money? (That there may be different pay scales provided by the state.Someone correct me if I’m wrong)

If state funding is involved, the state will get the overpayment back

So how would you propose to make up the difference? If teachers aren’t required to pay it back then one of two things must happen. 1)local taxpayers will have to cough up the money or 2)funding that would be used to provide students an education would need to be cut.

Either way I’d say students lose out!

By jim d

December 24, 2007 7:30 AM | Link to this

OH YEAH,

MERRY CHRISTMAS to all my Christian freinds and a HAPPY HOLIDAY’S to all.

By catlady

December 24, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this

Correct the mistake the next time contracts come out. Until then, the system should live with the contract IT PRODUCED and its representative signed. Yeah, someone should have caught the errors, on both sides. I certainly check my contract to be sure it is correct on my T-7 and max experience (hard to get that wrong—I haven’t had step increases in quite a while). All parties should and must honor the contracts they signed. Teacher works, and get paid what the contract stipulated. The county does not have a leg to stand on, unless fraud was involved. (We had a teacher who tried to claim a T6 BECAUSE HER MASTER’S PROGRAM WAS A TWO YEAR PROGRAM. Now, that is fraud. (Many master’s programs are two year, but she thought she was special).