AJC.com > Blogs > Get Schooled > Archives > 2007 > December > 05 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USIt’s The Community, Stupid
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Last week, Jamie Vollmer — a former Iowa businessman who says he once sold the “Best Ice Cream in America” — spoke to Georgia school board members and superintendents about how to fix their public schools.
Vollmer, who gave up the ice cream scoops and now makes a living as a professional speaker, admits he used to be a harsh critic of the nation’s school systems. But, after working with the Iowa Business and Education Roundtable in the late 1980s and early 1990s, he became one of their biggest allies.
His bottom line: That the main problem with America’s public schools is not teachers or administrators, but rather the lack of community trust and support.
His solution: Build a better relationship with the community — not just parents, but all neighbors — so that reforms can happen and schools can improve.
“After doing this for 18 years … I’ve learned one thing for sure: You cannot do this by yourself,” he said. “The folks in Georgia have no idea how hard this job is. This is the most challenging group of students ever to walk through those classroom doors. …
“So you need community understanding. You need community trust. … You need community commitment … [And] you need community permission to do things differently.”
Honestly, I think this is the first time I’ve ever heard someone blame the public as a whole for the failings of public schools. But Vollmer — who has the delivery of a well-honed stand-up comic — presented a persuasive argument.
Most educators are trying to do what’s best for the kids, he said, but parents, politicians and others keep getting in the way. If those naysayers only got closer to the schools and better understood the challenges public campuses face, they’d be more willing to give their support to make necessary changes — including possibly implementing year-round school (oh my!).
The question: How do you engage the larger community in a conversation about improving public schools, when that community doesn’t want to be involved?
Comments
By V for Vendetta
December 5, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this
OK, I’m sure there are going to be many people who read that bog prompt and respond along the lines of: “He11 yeah! He’s absolutely right! Worthless parents and horrible families are to blame for EVERYTHING!
Well, not quite. The bad parents and lack of community pride and support is only half of the story. The school must (at least) make an effort to engage the parents, make them aware of the situation, and ask for their help in turning the ship around.
The problem is that at schools like mine, they are so worried about covering up all of the bad stuff that happens and pretending that we are still a squeaking clean institution, free of the kinds of trouble most people associate with a “bad” school, they don’t bother to engage the parents at all. I say STOP covering up the discipline issues, STOP covering up the falling test scores, STOP covering up the rampant apathy and disrespect. Let it be known to all, and let it be known to all that we want to work together to make a positive change.
Vollmer is absolutely right about two things: First — there is a lot going wrong that the community IS to blame for. Second — we can’t make any kind of difference unless we involve the community.
We can’t expect the community to miraculously change itself, it has to be a mutual decision. If the school and the community comes together and EXPECTS, nay, DEMANDS higher standards, then the riffraff will leave, education will improve, and the school will thrive. The alternative?
Clayton County, anyone?
By JustMe
December 5, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this
Vollmer is absolutely right. The community makes all of the difference.
Most politicans want to muck with education for PR and have no idea of the implications in the real classroom. This is what’s happening in the entire State of GA (and nationally). I would even extend this comment to the uppler level administrators in the school systems. They want to make blanket rules for all schools without even considering that the student populations may not be the same from school to school.
All parties must be involved and must understand to make public schools better. Or, as an alternative, simply trust the classroom teacher to do what’s right for the students sitting in front of them. Allow the teacher to consider the mix of students in that classroom and to create lessons in the best interest of those students. Stop with the ‘standards’ and the ‘pacing charts’ and so on.
And, if the teacher fails, then it is fine to have consequences for that teacher (retraining, probation, whatever).
Why does every Tom, Dick, and Harry think that they know BETTER than the actual classroom teacher? This is something that I will never understand…..
By Me
December 5, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this
Start with dicipline. We have a graduation coach, a moth coach, now we need a disipline coach. The coach has an office and if we need a big waiting room (in schools like mine)like at the doctors office then so be it. Send students who misbehave in the class room straight to the coach. Have the coach call the parents and do something about the problem that day. When the students, parents, and community see that this is the way it is then they will make changes for the better. If the coach sees the same student from different teachers then they should find another place for the student to get thier education. If the coach sees a lot of students from one teacher that he does not see from any other teachers then that teacher should be looked into and helped. That simple. It communities that do not want to get involved you will have to make them get involved by involving. Make them come pick up their children when called at worked etc. Next in these bad schools who will then after getting the dicipline right and students gone that do not need to be there you will have to lower the class room size. Money involved I know but it can be done with all the money wasted on programs and experts. Do the two things above and I promise you the school will get better and maybe the community along with it. Better community better school. But once a community is bad it will not get better unless the school gets better. In that case a better school MAY bring along with it a better community.
By catlady
December 5, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this
Sometimes community leaders have a vested interest in seeing that the school does NOT succeed (Chambers of Commerce will have a fit over this statement). Students who drop out provide willing workers for some industries.
I have a hard time greeting as a Messiah anyone who has such limited classroom experience. This includes motivational speakers, consultants, and many county office administrators.
By jim d
December 5, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this
ABSOLUTELY.
IT’S THE PARENTS STUPID!!!
Gotta give this guy credit for comming up with a new one. (LOL)
By WFC
December 5, 2007 6:43 PM | Link to this
Thirty one years as a teacher and administrator in both public and private schools have taught me a number of important lessons. A couple are on topic here:
All parents want high standards…. as long as THEIR CHILD achieves at the highest level, deserving or not.
All parents want disciplinary codes that entail strict consequences for bad behavior…. unless THEIR CHILD is involved.
This won’t be changing anytime soon.
By Tony
December 5, 2007 8:20 PM | Link to this
Vollmer’s points should be well taken by educators, boards of education, chambers of commerce and other community leaders. His message is simple: the communities set the standards for their schools. This is one of the reasons that wealth is such a good predictor of student achievement. High wealth districts expect good schools and teach their children to value an education.
In districts with high poverty, everyone is so busy dealing with the basics of living and getting by that it is hard to think past today into the future. Thinking into the future is a key to success in schooling. Schools and communities have the ability to change these dynamics by working together instead of at odds.
School leaders can begin the dialogue with their communities through parent forums, reaching out to the business community, and calling on service clubs for support. This is a two way street, though. That means the civic groups have to be willing to set aside their criticisms and work with the schools. They have a vested interest in helping the schools improve.
The wisecrack about needing cheap labor is becoming less and less of a reality in most communities. We have in our community an industry that has stepped up to the plate to help the send an important message to area teens. “Stay in school.” The company has truly put their money where their mouth is. Partnerships like this are very possible when all parties recongnize the potential for improving the community by improving the schools.
Many times I have said in this blog that local boards of education and communities are the best places for setting school standards. Even with federal and state standards, improvement will only occur one school at the time.
By Lee
December 5, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this
Blah, blah, blah, blah.
So a motivational speaker goes before a group of school board members and superintendents and tells them:
It’s not your fault. It’s the communities fault.
In the business world, Vollmer was a salesman. Looks like he’s still a salesman. Absolve the people in charge of responsibility and blame the ubiquitious “community.”
Yep, that’ll keep those speaking engagements rolling in.
Guess what Vollmer, the community is speaking loud and clear. Fifteen years ago, there were two private schools within a twenty mile radius of my home. Today, there are at least seventeen… and I live in a semi-rural part of the state. There is a reason for that. The community is fed up with the current state of public education and is speaking loud and clear.
But the very people who are in a position to enact change cannot hear the community. They are too busy letting a saleman blow smoke up their aaaaaaaa….
By JustMe
December 6, 2007 12:19 AM | Link to this
Lee and jim d -
YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!
BNW
LOL!!!!!!
And Lee, private schools really have NOT ‘grown’ in GA or in the USA. In fact, the % of public school kids compared to private school kids is pretty much the same as it has been the last 30 or so years.
However, what does seem to happen is that wealthy parents that don’t want to become involved with their own children think that all they have to do is spend the money for private school, buy their little ones tons of toys, and everything will be all right.
A friend of mine taught at one of your private schools for one year. She said that there were only about 8 kids per class. However, the school was all about keeping the parents and students happy so that the money continued to roll in. The teachers were forced to lower their academic standards so that all kids got As and Bs. When it came time for those kids to take the SATs, the parents just went out and spent more money on SAT coaches and SAT prep classes.
So go ahead and wave your private school banner. Those of us in the trenches know the truth. And, as I said….
YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
By jim d
December 6, 2007 3:56 AM | Link to this
JM,
Oh I can handle it—just haven’t heard it yet.
The truth is that it is not all the community, it is not totally the system, it isn’t all educational administration or methods, it simply isn’t all of any one thing. It is a combination of many things that plague the quality of education being produced in our public schools. A simplistic approach that it is any one particular item is just rather amusing.
By Lee
December 6, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this
JM, the truth is….
The government wrested control away from the community 50 years ago after the Brown vs. Board decision.
The community has no control over a (teacher, administrator) passing a kid from grade to grade who can’t do the work.
The community has no control over the (teacher, administrator) who will not deal with discipline issues and allow these troublemakers to disrupt the class.
The community has no control when the school places the future valedictorian, future felon, borderline retard, and illegal alien who can’t speak a lick of English in the same classroom and then expect them to learn at the same pace.
The community has no control over some central office hack who goes out and spends big $$$ on the latest education fad.
The community has no control when a year later, those expensive reading/math programs are sitting in the trash dumpster.
I guess I’ll just have to take your word on the number of kids in private school. Silly me. I should have realized that my lying eyes were deceiving me when I noticed all those private schools popping up that weren’t there before.
There is a lot of blame to go around. But, the truth is most of us do not have any control on what goes on within the confines of the school. For Vollmer to say that it is the communities responsibility is akin to saying “It’s everybody’s fault, therefore, no one is responsible.”
We, the taxpayers, pay to have the government perform a service. That’s all public schools are - a service. Just like the police and sanitation workers. Nothing more. Nothing less.
…and that’s the cold, hard truth of it.
By SET
December 6, 2007 9:53 AM | Link to this
Lee got it right as to what has happened.
A sad thing what has happened to the USA.
Sadder still what is about to happen once the government has sufficiently dumbed down the US population.
By V for Vendetta
December 6, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this
JM and Lee,
You’re both right! We do pay the government to perform a service; unfortunately, they typically suck at performing this particular service. On the flip side, JustMe is right about the rampant grade inflation and money grubbing that goes on in many private schools.
I think Lee’s comment of Vollmer’s statements being akin to blaming everyone so no one is at fault rings very true in this situation. As most people have said, this is something that will have to change at BOTH levels: the school must rigidly enforce higher standards and not cave to insipid parents and/or their bottom-feeding lawyers; the community must become involved and champion a system that seeks to provide the most relevant, effective, and prepatory education possible.
Currently, both sides are at a standstill, somewhat stagnant and entrenched in mudslinging and name-calling.
And we know how much the government manages to get done when that happens.
Vollmer’s got some good ideas, but he’s not a prophet. Schools need a backbone; parents need to be more involved. Seems to me, he’s just repeating the kinds of things that get said on this blog every single day of the week! The real questions is:
Why doesn’t anyone DO anything about it?
By Janine
December 6, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this
JM and Lee : I couldn’t find very much about the increase [or lack of ] in privat schools…Most data seems to be 4 or 5 years old. However, I did find that “According to the most recent report by the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES), private schools have enjoyed a steady increase in enrollment, climbing by 18 percent between 1988 and 2001 — and enrollment rates are expected to continue to rise by at least another 7 percent by 2013! Public school enrollment rose by about the same rate (19 percent) but is expected to continue to rise by only 4 percent. Anyone find better information?
By jim d
December 6, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this
janine,
Article in Ruters, today you might want to check out.
“Schools: Overview”
Here’s a bit from it.
Spending (public and private) on school education in the US is the equivalent to 7.3% of GDP. There are about 124,000 schools in the US, of which, 76% are public (accounting for 88.5% of enrollment) and rest are private (accounting for 11.5% of enrollment). The aggregate revenue for schools (including public funding and private sector contribution) is approximately $800 billion, with public spending accounting for about 70% of this total.
By jim d
December 6, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this
Lee,
A more telling figure might be the groth in homeschooling.
Apparently Homeschooling in Georgia has enjoyed about a 20% growth rate every year for some time now.
By jim d
December 6, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this
Lee,
A more telling figure might be the growth in homeschooling.
Apparently Homeschooling in Georgia has enjoyed about a 20% growth rate every year for some time now.
By Dana @ DOE
December 6, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this
Jim d: The number of homeschool students in Georgia has not increased 20% per year. In fact from 2002 to 2006, the number of Homeschool students increased 15 percent.
Homeschooling enrollment has increased at about the same rate as public school enrollment in Georgia — a little faster but not much.
By ??
December 6, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this
I thought those kids were ‘homeschooled,’ not ‘homeschool.’
By Lisa B.
December 6, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this
If the community has no control over the schools, the parents have no control over their children and the schools have no control over anything, then it’s no wonder education is out of control. All I can say is that we have a very powerful group of children about to take control of our society in a few years. Scary!
By JustMe
December 6, 2007 7:31 PM | Link to this
From what all of the data that everyone has found, I guess it can be concluded…
Yes, private school enrollment has increased. Those that want to use this ‘fact’ to ‘prove’ that people are flocking to private schools will do so.
Yes, homeschooling has increased. Those that want to use this ‘fact’ to ‘prove’ that more people are homeschooling will do so.
However, these increases are basically paralleling the general increase in population. Because, public school enrollment is also increasing. Can people use this ‘fact’ to ‘prove’ that more people love their public schools?
This is a great example of how people use ‘facts’ incorrectly to support their own view.
Back to the topic of this blog. Jim d, it now sounds like you agree with Vollmer. If you read or listen to what he is saying is that it DOES take all parties involved to have a successful school. However, the one PART that has changed MOST DRAMATICALLY is the decrease in commuity involvement and support.
By Lee
December 6, 2007 8:03 PM | Link to this
On the other hand Justme, I think it is easy for those in public education to look at those statistics and merely discount it as normal growth.
I look at the NUMBER of new schools and see a different story.
Given the inherent difficulty in starting a private school and obtaining the accreditations, etc, the slow growth rate is not surprising. However, in a few years, these startup schools will have built their reputation and credentials to the point where more and more people will see them as a viable option Pk - 12.
At some point, there will be enough students enrolled in the private schools that the topic of vouchers can no longer be ignored by the politicians.
….and I don’t think you have to be Nostradamas to figure out what will happen if vouchers become a reality.
By catlady
December 6, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this
Large employers of unskilled labor in our area have been asked not to employ students not graduated from high school; apparently their response has been “You godda be kidding!” I do know of other small communities that HAVE gotten their main industries to help with this.
Our local industries love dropouts and illegal immigrants (one meat processing plant employs a number who are being treated for TB—consider growing your own!).
Just telling how it is here.
We do have employers here, most notably banks, that provide much support to students and teachers, and a big thank you to them.
By mathmom
December 6, 2007 8:49 PM | Link to this
Well parents tried to get involved in this insane math curriculum (at least in Fulton County) and we just get told by the staff to just trust them and we got referred to as “disruptive parents”. We were repeatedly assured by Claire Pierce (from state DOE) that the new math was great. We were repeatedly assured by Fulton County representatives that the new math is great. If you do a little research on your own you find out the new math is bad, awful and other words that I can’t use on this forum. The current class of 8th grade students have been in the new math for 2 years prior to taking the ITBS this year. Scores have been back for at least 3 weeks. We have heard nothing about how this class that has been in the new math for the last two years did on the ITBS. I couldn’t care less how they do on the CRCT. Maybe the DOE person can provide figures for how this class did in Math so we can find out real answers instead of just trust us.
By jim d
December 6, 2007 9:10 PM | Link to this
Dana and JM,
I belive in time even y’all will wake up to the realization that disatisfaction with our public schools is driving parents to seek alternatives to public education.
By Lisa B.
December 6, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this
MathMom,
At my school, the 8th graders overall increased about 3% in math over last year’s 8th grade scores. At my son’s school, I’ve seen his scores, and his percentile ranking was about the same as his ranking in 5th grade. I haven’t seen overall gains or losses for the 8th grade as a whole in his school.
I am unsure of the new math. My 8th grade son (and all 8th graders) in my opinion, have been guinea pigs for the new math. I sure hope it works!
By jim d
December 7, 2007 7:22 AM | Link to this
Dana & JM,
I just gotta ask this question.
If public school is the best thing since sliced bread and it is the “Wealthy” sending their kids to schools that, according to a few bloggers here, provide an inferior education. Why is it that a higher percentage of teachers send their kids to private schools than do the general public.
I know JM, you hate stats and facts, but the truth is pretty well documented in several studies. I will refer you to only one though since I doubt you’ll take the time to read it since it conflicts with what you’d like us to believe. It is an article titled “Where Do Public School Teachers Send Their Kids to School?” that was published regarding a Thomas B. Fordham Institute study.
Written By: Alan Bonsteel, M.D.
Published In: School Reform News
Publication Date: November 1, 2004
Publisher: The Heartland Institute
You can find it here.
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=15818
By jim d
December 7, 2007 8:02 AM | Link to this
Recommended reading for every parent.
“Public Schools, Public Menace.” By Joel Turtel
By jim d
December 7, 2007 8:22 AM | Link to this
While The CP website is generally a bit too far to the right for me, there was an intersting article there yesterday regarding education—American Education Fails Because It Isn’t Education—that some of you may find of interest. Of course it is only one mans opinon.
http://howardwasright.com/index.php/more/3048
By V for Vendetta
December 7, 2007 10:07 AM | Link to this
Lee,
The number of new private schools means nothing. Just because more shoe stores open in an area, it doesn’t mean more people are wearing shoes, does it?
I think JimD’s point on where the educated (or educators) send their kids is a more valid example of how public schools and communities are dropping the ball. Teachers have the inside knowledge; often times about the majority of the schools in the particular county in which the teacher works. I wouldn’t say that private schools are the first choice for many of us, but I WOULD say that we would gladly pick and choose where to send our kids.
But then again, teachers, unlike the general public, often have that option. In many counties a teacher’s child can attend any school in that county, or at the very least has the choice between the district school and the one the teacher works at. There are a few schools teachers in my county would die to work at for that very reason.
The public school system is on its last legs. Maybe Vollmer has a point: the only way to save our current system is to unite and find solutions to many of the problems we currently face. Otherwise, dismantle the system and privatize it.
Just don’t sit around and do nothing.
By Tony
December 7, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this
Intersting reading Jim D. The federal department has assumed control over all public education through its actions authorized by NCLB. This has all been accomplished because through what I call extortion and the sad fact of that is that federal funding is a relatively low percentage of states’ budgets for schools.
By V for Vendetta
December 7, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this
Good point, Tony. If the Feds want that much control over public schools (damn you, NCLB!), they should compensate the individual states proportionately.
By jim d
December 7, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this
DREAM ON “V”
unfunded mandates by the fed are here to stay!!
By Janine
December 7, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this
OK, jimd and other regulars, re: teachers having the inside track and choosing to send their children to private schools…At the risk of repeating one time too many the feelings of many, many teachers , [my colleagues and myself]…..The first 10 years of teaching, a teacher thinks he/she can save the children! THe second 10 years, a teacher thinks he/she can change the system! THe third 10 years all a teacher wants to do is get the h—- out of there and pray that the grandchildren go to private school!
By Mark
December 7, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
In my profession I probably know 200+ teachers. I’m not sure I could even count on one hand the number of teachers who send their kids to private schools.
Interesting research article to read from Fortune magazine: Private Schools Vs. Public: Forget the Myths, Why Private Schools are Rarely Worth the Money
The community IS the school and the school IS the community.
By HB
December 7, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this
jimd, I’m not sure that comparing teachers to the general public means much as it doesn’t break the public down by income, education level, etc — just teacher or not. You may also find that nurses are more likely than to send their kids to private school than the general public. Or preachers. Or small business owners.
Now what is more interesting to me is the second chart on that page that also looks at family income. According to that chart, low income teacher families are more likely to send kids to private school than other families of similar income. But middle and high income teacher families are LESS likely to choose private school than non-teacher families of similar income.
Personally, I think that middle category is probably the best indicator of where teachers stand compared with the general public. The lower one would include impoverished families for whom private school is not an option — can’t really compare those families to teachers who most likely fall at the upper end of that income range. Same is true for the high income group. I would think most teachers’ fall in the lower end, but are being compared with multi-millionaires. Families in the middle range, which doesn’t include either of these extremes, probably can be reasonably compared to each other, so it looks to me like teachers choose private schools with about the same frequency that families of similar wealth are in general.
By Lee
December 7, 2007 7:52 PM | Link to this
Jim D, I’ve long avocated that the true measure of how good (or bad) a school is can be measured by the number of teachers who send their kids to private school. They, of all people, should know.
Interesting tidbit - 4 of the 8 students on my daughter’s private school van are children of teachers…
Did I mention my wife is a teacher…