Get Schooled

By Mark

November 29, 2007 7:22 AM | Link to this

Remember a few months ago when the superintendent mess arose I stated on these posts that SACS would be very interested in what was going on in Clayton? As long as Clayton is haunted by that group that interferes with administrators attempts to provide quality education there will be problems with the system. It’s really very sad.

By Scooter

November 29, 2007 7:59 AM | Link to this

Perhaps it would help if the leaders were chosen on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin. Seems like somebody said that before.

By Brian

November 29, 2007 8:02 AM | Link to this

It is sad:

High crime, low property values and a terrible academic reputation. The county can’t attract the right people (families), and those that are there can’t get out because no one that has a choice wants to move into clayton county. It seems that the cycle will continue for a while.

By jd

November 29, 2007 8:31 AM | Link to this

When nearly one-third of 8th graders fail but get moved to high school what can be expected in the way of successful high schools?

By Mommy S

November 29, 2007 9:02 AM | Link to this

Amen to all those comments before me. A candidates character is important. Parents who care would be a nice start. While out and about I notice that the majority of children I see have no respect for themselves, their parents or anyone they come in contact with. It’s impossible to educate children who don’t care and live in a society that thinks it’s cool to spell words wrong. I hate seeing it on signs and ads all around town.

By CJKatl

November 29, 2007 9:04 AM | Link to this

Close the schools. Give each student a voucher to enroll in a private school. Set up government funded schools for special needs students.

Clayton County has repeatedly shown it cannot succeed in the school business. It’s time to just walk away. Politics and business will keep that from every happening - there are too many people getting rich off of school funds. Looking at academic achievement, though…

Let’ me put it this way - if a football coach had this low a win rate, he’d be canned. Heck, Tech just canned somebody with a better rate. If an airline had this record, it would be grounded. Aren’t the children at least as if not more important than that?

By Maysie

November 29, 2007 9:10 AM | Link to this

Clean house in the BOE, and sweep it out good.

As an African-American who resides in Clayton, I agree that residents need to start voting in elected officials based on qualifications instead of skin color.

And I am definitely not saying people of color can’t run governments. But the ones chosen in Clayton are obviously not the best choices, especially Board of Education members.

I moved to Clayton “by choice” in 2004 and was not there to vote in all the fools running our current government. We had no children at the time but if we did, would definitely would have chosen another place to live. We hoped things would improve in the school system by that time, but doesn’t look that way.

When our children are of school age if things have not changed with the BOE, we will be investing in private school for my child.

It is really a shame. Despite all the negativity constantly spewed about Clayton, it is a great place to live. We have had no problems and experienced no crime in our area, have good neighbors who care about their homes.

The good people who live in Clayton, and there are plenty of them, can’t seem to catch a break.

By what????

November 29, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this

“Close the schools. Give each student a voucher to enroll in a private school.”………..What private schools in Clayton County? You think there are enough private schools in & around Clayton County to house every single regular education child? And by the way, the private schools wouldn’t have to take the vouchers. Odds are, they’d take 5% of them. Your theory leaves 1000s with no school.

By Curious

November 29, 2007 9:39 AM | Link to this

Question:

On what grounds can a board member be removed?

By Lori

November 29, 2007 9:43 AM | Link to this

Maybe they should fire all the administrators and start with a clean slate. As a former teacher in Clayton County, I can say I was appauled at the lack of support the teachers get. My African American principle actually told me that the minority students weren’t expected to behave as well as the other students because of their race, and refused to help with kids who were discipline problems. His attitude is why I am a former rather than current teacher in Clayton County.

But parents need to step up to the plate as well. When a teacher calls you to talk about your child, listen instead of making excuses for your kids behavior. I swear I’ll scream if I hear one more person say “You just don’t like me because I’m black.” Maybe I don’t like you because your a jerk who thinks he is above the rules.

By DH

November 29, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this

What will help Clayton County schools you ask? Start with the Bell Curve.

By Tony

November 29, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this

Politics has done more harm to public education than any other single factor. From the federal government right on down to local boards of education, it is clear that political systems can not always provide the best for the citizens. Local voters can initiate recall petitions against the board members in question and they should! Control of education at the local level is where it should be.

Vouchers are not an answer for large systems like this because there are no providers for the services. The fools who continue to tout this as a cure all are elitest and want to reserve quality education for a select few.

Board members should recognize they are only able to act in their official capacity during the times of official board meetings. To interfere with the daily operations of schools and the financial transactions of the board are egregious errors that should not be tolerated.

By dougmo

November 29, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this

Clayton County has the worst school system administration bar none. Aren’t thse the mensas that decided that all new students who enroll go to the district offices instead of each individual school?

By Keith

November 29, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this

Dr. James Watson has the answer, but many don’t want to hear it.

By Mario from FP

November 29, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this

Let’s start with a new board of Education for starters. Secondly, let’s elect people that can annunciate words correctly. If you are going to work for the Board of Education, at least be able to talk properly and stop sounding ‘ghetto’. Norreese is a joke and he should be firmly defeated his next election. (I am an African-American)

For God’s sake, can we please have a Board of Education Chairperson that actually responds to its constituents. Ericka Davis represents our district. She doesn’t respond to emails or calls. YOU SUCK ERICKA! I’ll be leading the charge to get someone else elected in your place.

Finally, for goodness sake, get rid of that ridiculous Dual Language School. Make those kids learn ENGLISH. This is America, not Mexico or any other Latin American country. Mike Huckabee for President, ya’ll.

By Agree with Scotter

November 29, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

**To Scooter — AMEN !!!

By Sabrina

November 29, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

As a resident and a mother, I cannot tell you how frustrated I am with this school system!! Just yesterday I had words with the school principal on a particular issue, and I did not get anywhere. Clayton county is a great place to live, and aside from the education system, I am perfectly happy.

Of course, parents have a lot of the responsibility in this problem. So many parents have become apathetic and hands off with child-rearing, allowing the children to raise themselves. But, I am a concerned and active parent with my child’s education, and I do not feel that many of the educators in the school system truly have any interest in educating children. The toxic “inner-city school” mentality has spread with the urban sprawl, and Clayton county is only an example of how much worse it could get. I cannot afford to put my children in private school nor can I afford to home-school them as a single parent. Someone please tell me what I can do.

By B

November 29, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

I’m a pessimist here, because I went to school in Clayton before it went so far downhill. You may be able to fix the school board and its “we don’t have to follow any rules or laws” antics by just throwing the bums out. But at bottom you need good teachers - and they’re long gone.

When I went to Riverdale, it was a “Georgia school of excellence” because of a staff of experienced, veteran teachers who really knew how to teach. There are a few intelligent, motivated teachers in the school system still— but I’d say at least 95% of them have been run off by the last ten years of racial politics and general decline. When you have to teach a classroom of kids who don’t want to learn, that’s bad. But when you get no support, and have zero possibility of advancement because of the color of your skin (because only one race can become principals, administrators, etc.)…well, staying in that school would just be stupid. (Particularly when school districts with better students and better opportunities are just down the road.) So the veteran, experienced teachers who made Clayton County schools good are still teaching…they’re just teaching in Henry County.

How do you get them back? You can’t. Seriously, you just can’t, and you have to replace them with a new crop of teachers who stay long enough to become veterans. To improve the school system like that will take 10-15 years of solid administration and leadership, and an investment by the surrounding communities into improving their schools. It would take dedication, leadership, skill, and, importantly, color-blindness.

We can’t even get through a year where the school board obeys the law and the ethical rules. Forget solid leadership, forget electing good, intelligent, motivated people who have the skills and the drive to build a stronger school system. We’re struggling now to just elect people who aren’t crooks. So I’m pessimistic.

By Daisey Nunley

November 29, 2007 10:42 AM | Link to this

Ithink they should clean house and show the school board they can be replaced. How many times are they going to let this happen? It’s typical the Goverment just keeps putting up with the same thihg!

By meshal

November 29, 2007 10:42 AM | Link to this

Amen to Maysie’s comments; As a resident of Clayton County for the 8 years, I have a great neighborhood, wonderful neighbors and I love it here. I have a son who is in private school because of the school system’s reputation; but other problems involving the BOE and the school system, I have not encountered any problems since I have lived here. Sure, we have our problems, but so do some of the other counties also. The Atlanta Public School System has come under scrunity for its horrific accounting practices and academic failures; Dekalb county’s crime rates are almost, if not worst than, Clayton County; not to mention, Gwinnett county and its overcrowded school system, as well as, there rising crime rates. Those are just a sampling of the things that I have observed from the ‘outside, looking in’ as to why I chose to stay where I am and wasting money to move anywhere in the metro Atlanta Area

By JCinDuluth

November 29, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

Interesting blog. From an outside viewpoint from someone who does not reside in Clayton County: The African American bloggers have the correct attitude and are a credit to clear-thinking people of Clayton. Why must the “race” card always be played? Maysie: You’re right, the color has nothing to do with the problem except that it is used to play racial politics; to Mario in FP: Amen. Thousands of blacks in this country speak better English that I do and their parents were at the focal point of their education. Far from “acting white” these folks have contributed mightily to this country and will continue to be good citizens - all the while by not resorting to ghetto garbage. Appears that the “Bothers and Sisters” on the school board should be shown the door and those who wish to improve the educational system should step up to the plate and run for office (that goes for the ineffective white guy, too). The citizenry, black and white need to demand a change, not business (or non-business) as usual.

By Camille

November 29, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

Sabrina, the following two suggestions come to mind:

Become more involved than just at the school level. Become more involved with PTA and the board. And, that would just be a starting point.

You have said that you are happy there, but happy are you going to be if your kids cannot get a quality education? Is moving elsewhere an option?

If there are no other options, find other ways to supplement your children’s education. This would include tutors, educational centers, and/or just sitting down with them and having them do additional work. Sort of additional schooling to make up what they are not getting at school. These require a lot more additional time from you, but should be important enough to make that sacrifice.

Good luck.

By Jeff

November 29, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

My wife and I moved away from Clayton Co. 9 years ago. It is no coincidence that my oldest child is also 9. Both my parents taught middle school in Jonesboro for 19 and 21 years respectively. I love Clayton Co. dearly. However, the problem lies at home. Parents are the ones who vote in the BOE and who are leading these students. School is a place where you go to learn - not to learn discipline. Make parenting the most important part of your life! Learn who is running for these positions and question their motives. The only way for Clayton Co. to return to its “glory years” is for caring parents to get involved.

By Sabrina

November 29, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

Thank you for your comment, Camille. Currently, I am working with my daughter at home. She is a straight A student. I also attend PTA meetings and participate where I can, but the school’s principal is very combative with any efforts by the PTA to make general improvement. This is a major part of my frustration. And yes, I am definitely considering a move hopefully by the beginning of the next school year, but for now I need a solution. I am here by circumstance, and the move at the time was certainly the best thing for my children. Where do we have to begin to make it right? I didn’t live in the county the last time this happened.

By Bobby

November 29, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

State takeover of the school system is what’s needed. The State board should take it over for a few years, then followed by state supervision for a few more years, while the Clayton board can prove it knows how to do the job.

By Mark

November 29, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

When looking for the reason behind a problem, look first at the top….In this case, look at the Clayton School Board.

Does anyone else think it is a conflict of interest that some members of the Board are members of a teacher’s union that pledges to always back teachers?

How weird is it that one member of the Board considers it the highlight of his career to have written a Teacher’s Bill of Rights??? (Almost all of which is already in place as state or labor laws)

The Board is in place to serve the parents and students of the community. Wouldn’t it have made more sense to author a “Student’s Bill of Rights?” Perhaps something like:

1.) Students have the right to a high quality education delivered by high-quality teachers.

2.) Students have the right to come to school and learn in a safe environment.

3.) When students and parents find that a particular school or classroom is unacceptable there shall be an appeals process with the Board to address the problem.

4.) Students shall not be subjected to teachers who keep their jobs only because a union threatens the principal with a picket if he attempts to remove, discipline or write a plan for improvement for the inferior teacher.

Get the idea? The whole philosophy of the Board right now is misplaced. I fear SACS will see that too.

By Dee

November 29, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

I have lived in Clayton County for the past 10 years and I have never been a victim of “THE HIGH CRIME RATE.”

However, the school system is the worst by far. Of the 10 years that I have lived in Clayton County, my children only attended the public school system 2 years; that was the worst mistake of my life. From the BOE to the teachers, no one seems to care about the children. Most of the educators are only there for a paycheck.

What are parents to do? I’ll tell you; get off your behind, join the PTA, attend school meetings, attend the BOE meetings and vote for qualified candidates. What I have witnessed is appalling!!! If a free meal is not offered during schools meetings, there may only be 20 parents present.

Come on people, stop complaining and do something about it.

By JustMe

November 29, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

What can be done in Clayton County can be any where…. have the adults in the community become more involved in the schools.

Sabrina - You should go to your child’s school and talk with the teachers. Attend some of your child’s classes. Look at what’s going on in the hallways (during and between classes). If this means taking a day off of work, then do it. Join the PTA and participate. Hold everyone accountable for their job. If there is bad student behavior, ask the Principal what they are doing about it. If there is no instruction going on, ask the teacher why not?

You don’t have to be a parent to become involved with a school. You pay taxes and have every right to see what’s going on.

The idiots in Clayton County BOE obviously care more about their power stuggles than about the schools. However, individual adults can make a difference to their local schools anyway while the idiots bicker.

By Curious

November 29, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this

To “Mario from FP”:

Please know what you are talking about before you make a statement like that. The dual language school is actually the most positive thing in Clayton County School system to date. Get your facts straight! They ARE teaching students to speak English, as well as Spanish. Not only are they teaching them to speak it, students are also learning to read and write in English and Spanish language. How many other “public” elementary schools in Georgia have a foreign language component in their curriculum? Successful Dual Language schools have been in existence in this country for years (30 plus). As we all know, the public school system in Georgia is SLOW and is just now getting on board. There are teachers all over the country that want to relocate to teach at this school. It must not be that ridiculous because other school systems in Georgia, including Cobb, are planning on opening one as well.

By JR

November 29, 2007 1:49 PM | Link to this

B: you aren’t being a pessimist, you hit the nail right on the head. It will take 15 years to get CCPS back to the system it was a decade ago, and that’s if the parents of Clayton Co fix it now.

Sabrina: “Where do we have to begin to make it right?”… The votors of Clayton Co must elect school board members who have the interests of the COMMUNITY at heart. Not the interests of students, the parents, nor the administrators, but the community as a whole. At that point, the board will get administrators with the right mindset, and that will bring in good teachers with the right mindset. However, that will entail the people of Clayton Country being willing to look beyond how “black” someone is in an election. And quite frankly, I don’t think the country electorate is there yet.

Mark: You seem to have some preconceived notion that all of these CCPS woes are at the feet of teachers, and a “student’s bill of rights” and “get tough” principals will fix it. Wrong. All the good teachers are gone, and no new teachers want to come to CCPS to start with. That’s not because of an administration that coddles bad teachers. That’s because of an administration that coddles students and parents, to keep a school board happy. You need a school board that will write a “community education agreement”. When you say “bill of rights”, you forget that while students, teachers, parents and administrators have rights, they also have duties. Even the students have a duty when it comes to their education. Part of the problem is prejudice against part of the whole; the students, teachers, administrators, parents and school board each have responsibilities to the other. The attitude of the “it’s all the teachers’ and principals’ fault” or “it’s all the school board’s fault” is endemic to Clayton Country, which is why you (as a county) elect school baords and school boards hire/promote administrators based upon how “black” they are, and not how good they are for the community.

In closing, CCPS is screwed. The fix is rather simple, but the majority of the county isn’t willing to fix it. A majority of your electorate won’t elect a school board member or tolerate a senior administrator who isn’t black, or even “black enough”. You wanted your school system leadership to be more black; not more effective. Now you have exactly what you wanted.

By V for Vendetta

November 29, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

Wow, been out for a while and I’m late to this party, oh well … .

What can fix Clayton County’s schools? Easy answer: a lot of separate building fires. The County is a cesspool of education. Actually, it’s pretty much just a cesspool. People need to take a good, hard look at the types of residents that Clayton is primarily made up of. No, not in a racist way, in a VALUES-oriented way.

Parents in Clayton obviously don’t value education very highly. They tolerate incompetence and idiocy when it comes to their children’s education, and don’t seem concerned with how they can right the Titanic. You would never see such woes befall regions like Cobb, North Fulton, and Gwinnett. Even at their worst — including all the complaining that goes on here on this blog about those counties’ respective school boards — those counties don’t even come close to the overall, all encompassing, stupidity that is the Clayton County school system.

It all starts with the parents, though. As others on this blog have mentioned, there was a time when the Clayton school system was GOOD. We’re not talking about a school system that was bad from the start, we’re talking about one that was GOOD. But if you follow the shifting demographics, you can trace a discernable connection between Clayton’s demographic shift and the school systems’ fall from grace. The same thing is taking place in the other counties I have already mentioned, but entrenched community support is battling it back.

Again, we’re not talking race here, we’re talking VALUES. Parents that VALUE education will find a way to put their kids in the best schools. Parents that don’t, well, they move to Clayton. Pathetic.

By D

November 29, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

I am a current resident of Clayton County with three children. We the residents of Clayton county have been asleep on the job. We need to begin running our county the way corporations run businesses. I don’t believe the state should take over any school right now until our state standing rises for education. We need to remove the current Board of Education and replace them as necessary we need to give them the intiatives we want for our county. I don’t understand how you have a child that is making A’s and B’s and can’t pass the CRCT or the graduation exam those are questions we need them to look into and solve. Why do we continue to build subdivisions and no schools?

Why are are building alterantive schools for students who obviously don’t want to go to school instead of better schools for the students that want to go to school and learn.

Why are my property taxes going up and I see more and more trailers every day?

Quit voting for the splost and make these officals account for the money they have already received.

Bring in an accounting firm and start auditing the books.

Several of the problems Clayton County has were transferred in from other counties and we know that’s what happened stop whinning about it and deal with it.

We need to establish a Board of Directors that are residents of the county that the government officials and the school board have to account to. When they have to account for their actions I beleive things will change. But not until we (Clayton County residents) decide to do something about it ourselves.

Raise your self by your own boot straps!

By NICK

November 29, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

Blacks would rather see the entire system fail rather then hand over power to more competent people of different colors, who could run the system more efficently and be held accountable for their performance.

This happens in EVERY black run anything.

The only thing blacks are able to run is their moufs………

By Marci

November 29, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

As a professional educator and one who has taught in Clayton Schools, I believe that areas that should be reformed include: The Clayton County Board of Education—totally.

The Administrators who now run the schools—totally. Most of them do not have a clue about how children learn, nor how they learn reading which is at the heart of the lack of academic success for many students.

The Clayton County method of hiring. Candidates are treated with bias, not just racial, but regionally. I believe that experienced teachers from the North are passed over for southern candidates with less experience and who are not as knowledgeable, nor articulate.

In the Human Resources Department, positions are written to screen out certain candidates who are well qualified. For example, if a position is advertised for a reading position, the HR Department writes the job description to eliminate reading specialists since Clayton County does not generally include reading specialists in the cadre of positions advertised.

The idea that all teachers within a grade level should be on the same page of instruction teaching children throughout the district is absurd. Classes and children are different with varying needs in terms of pacing for lessons.

Finally, the current School Improvement Specialists and other Specialists working from the Central Office should all be fired. If they would hold a public forum and agree to answer questions about how children learn, how learning engagements should be conducted, and what type of resources to utilize for 21st Century education and beyond, they would ALL earn a grade of F. I have yet to meet an intellectually astute and articulate Central Office learning specialist or School Improvement Specialist. It’s as if many were educated in Clayton County Schools.

The children deserve much better!

By Diogenes

November 29, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this

A majority of your electorate won’t elect a school board member or tolerate a senior administrator who isn’t black, or even “black enough”. You wanted your school system leadership to be more black; not more effective. Now you have exactly what you wanted.

Congrats, JR — that is about as effective a summation of this problem as can be stated. Racism is racism is racism … and never leads to a real solution to anything.

By JR

November 29, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this

D, I think you need to refocus concerning your Board of Directors plan. You already have one. It’s called a School Board. If you aren’t electing School Board members who are committed to education instead of personal power and political advancement, why would you elect a Board of Directors with values any different? Try electing a good School Board.

By Manny

November 29, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

Hold up!

Since when did the issues regarding Clayton County all of a sudden become a black person issue???

City of Atlanta is predominately black and they aren’t looking at accreditation issues. Nor are Dekalb, Fulton, or City of Decatur schools.

And yes, black people can run a government. There’s simply too many black mayors and city council members that does a great job all over this country for this discussion to be as closed-minded as “Black folks needs to gets demselves tagatha” mess that I’m seeing on this board.

As far as what to do, you can fire the board. Go ahead. And seek independent assistance.

But also, you need to get tough on the parents. It’s the parents that needs to take control of the school. You need to make it obligatory to be a member of the local PTA. You need meetings podcasted on the Internet. And you need to fine and lock up parents that fail to do what is expected.

By Barbara

November 29, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

I’m on the PTA when I tell parents about it and to join some laugh and look at you like you’ll crazy and say I don’t have any money but yet they go to the store and buy beer and alcohol first. Dues are just 5.00 for Elementary School. It is so sad that you see the parents at all until the last day of school. Won’t attend a meeting at all and if a program for the kids they will drop them off and won’t attend the program that their child is in.

By D

November 29, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

JR I appreciate your comments However, “my plan” the Board of Directors are parents and residents of the community that hold the clayton county government including the school board accountable and responsible for implementing programs and systems that reflect the needs of the community.

By Diogenes

November 29, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

Manny, you’re correct, to a point — it ISN’T strictly a race issue. There are many good, qualified black administrators, teachers … and parents. They are people who seek consensus, excellence, and a quality educational experience for our children.

That’s not who we’re talking about here, though. For many reasons, Clayton County, at least when it comes to its school system, seems to be “eaten up” with a lower-class, militant, confrontational, irrational, reverse-racist, anti-itellectual, opposition-to-or-at-least-abandonment-of traditional values mindset. This has poisoned the school system by placing the requirement of being “black enough” (i.e., unfortunately, “culture-speak” for adherence to the afore-mentioned traits) over that of competence.

Certainly, not all black residents or parents adhere to that view, but it’s there in abundance, and it’s wrecking the school system.

By catlady

November 29, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

PLEASE don’t suggest the state dept of ed take over Clayton County Schools! While the county’s problems with their schools are largely self-inflicted, think of what the state DOE has pushed off on the schools in this state and consider if you want the folks who come up with these harebrained schemes to be in charge of a system.

On the other hand, those at the state DOE would learn a LOT if they had to be in the schools…..

It might result in improvements to the state DOE “thinking process” if they DID get some practical experience.

By Nicole

November 29, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

I am a mother of two minor children in the Clayton County school system and I have to agree with most of the sentiments that have been posted here that say that the board needs to be cleared out. I have currently have an issue and have spoken with 2 board officials and have been totally disrespected. I am a parent and a tax payer and when I voice a concern I deserve straight forward answers and not to be told to seek legal counsel. I waited for over a month for a return call from the chief of staff and when I finally spoke with her she hung up on me. I have currently been waiting for over 2 weeks for a return call from the interim superintendent. Surely no one is that busy working when the state of the county’s educational system is in such dire straits. Dr. V. Lee and Dr. C. Jackson need to be removed immediately.

By meshal

November 29, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

To V or I for … not Intelligent

I live in Clayton County and my son is getting a great education. I did not have to move to one of the other counties for him to get a good education, that is ran by one of those so-called, as you put it, ‘respective school boards’. By looking at the state ranking on the education spectrum, GA as a whole has nothing to be proud of, if you think they are getting a quality education in this state. But that’s another issue for another time; my point is this, I DO NOT, NEVER HAVE and NEVER WILL live in a cesspool. Now whatever, you wish to refer to your county as, well, that’s you business. But this blog is pertaining to the CCPS and its educational problems. If you wish to comment on those issues, then by all means go right ahead. But when you come on here demeaning the majority of the citizens of Clayton County and our values, then, that’s where I must correct you because obviously you have some internal issues going on that makes you a ‘PERFECT Person, NOT!! I chose to move here and remain here. Yes, I too, am frustrated with the things that are happening within the school system. But next time, you need to think several times about your idiotic statements before you post them. If you really think the only people or, ‘Parents that don’t value education, well, they move to Clayton’ is a true statement; well, that makes you…PATHETIC.

By meshal

November 29, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

To V or I for … not Intelligent

I live in Clayton County and my son is getting a great education. I did not have to move to one of the other counties for him to get a good education, that is ran by one of those so-called, as you put it, ‘respective school boards’. By looking at the state ranking on the education spectrum, GA as a whole has nothing to be proud of, if you think they are getting a quality education in this state. But that’s another issue for another time; my point is this, I DO NOT, NEVER HAVE and NEVER WILL live in a cesspool. Now whatever, you wish to refer to your county as, well, that’s you business. But this blog is pertaining to the CCPS and its educational problems. If you wish to comment on those issues, then by all means go right ahead. But when you come on here demeaning the majority of the citizens of Clayton County and our values, then, that’s where I must correct you because obviously you have some internal issues going on that makes you a ‘PERFECT Person, NOT!! I chose to move here and remain here. Yes, I too, am frustrated with the things that are happening within the school system. But next time, you need to think several times about your idiotic statements before you post them. If you really think the only people or, ‘Parents that don’t value education, well, they move to Clayton’ is a true statement; well, that makes you…PATHETIC.

By JR

November 29, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this

D, I understand your concept, but it isn’t necessary. The School Board is already accountable to the parents and residents; they’re elected. Select another board from among the citizens of the county, and what you get is something different in name and function than the School Board, but the same kinds of people running it…and the same kinds of problems the school board has. You don’t need an outside source, either. All you need is for smart, honest citizens who are committed to the community to run for the school board, and then for the citizens to elect them. It’s unfortunate, but the kind of people you need on the School Board won’t run, and the country probably wouldn’t elect them even if they did.

By Pompano

November 29, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately, for Clayton County it’s only going to get worse. The recent gains by the Atlanta Schools are a direct result of AHA razing the housing projects and relocating all of the accompanying ‘baby-mommas’ via Section 8 to Clayton County. The Clayton County School system has now become the Septic tank for APS’s crap.

By Tonya C.

November 29, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

To: meshal

Say what you want, but many outside Clayton county have the very perception that V for Vendetta has (like it or not). I know I do, and I am African-American. Until the perception, whether just or not, is shed Clayton county schools and the communtiy at large will have a hard time getting the types of students that it needs to help it improve.

Honestly, I have been advised by other middle-class blacks to stay the hell out of Clayton. Period. The schools are atrocious and that is enough to make me immediately cross it off a list of places to live. With the housing slump in effect, you should take note of the comments being made about how people view Clayton because your property values are directly effected by them.

There are absolutely a good portion of the county that are like the Clayton county residents who have posted here. But lets be honest, there are a great many who are VERY much just as V for Vendetta described. Let’s not deny the truth because it isn’t palatable.

By JR

November 29, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

meshal, your son isn’t getting as good an education as you think he is. I can tell you that he can make good grades, then go to college and receive a shock when he has professors that aren’t evaluated on their pass/fail rate. Nobody here is pretending to be perfect, but there are significant issues with education in Clayton Co, and it starts with the school board that the electorate continues to hire.

By Jen Thomas-Williams

November 29, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

Wow! Count me in the revolution for change! As a nonprofit 501C3 startup specialist, I have personally seen (and heard of) the infighting amongst board members of many nonprofit organizations, including ministries and churches. My main advice to those forming new boards is to make sure you know (or at least discern) a person’s motive for being on a board. To some, it’s ego stroking; for others, it may be control issues. Knowing these two things are far more important than education and experience. The Bible says in the Book of Amos, “How can two walk together unless they are in agreement?” That holds for any relationship whether business or personal. While everyone will never agree on everything, it is imperative to at least agree on SOMETHING (and stick to it), and leave the personal agendas out of the board rooms.

All I want to know is how do I get involved to help turn this around for the sake of our children!!

jennipher@jenthomas.com

By Not Me!!

November 29, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this

ok, after reading much of this I really have only one question for everyone in Clayton co. complaining about the quality of their BOE.

YOU willing to place your name on the ballot?

By Sabrina

November 29, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

I heard from my daughter’s principal a bit ago, and the issue has been rectified. Marci, your perspective is refreshing and I want to thank you for that. There are many very lazy parents in Clayton county that are not teaching their children accountability. The sad part is that most of those parents are Clayton county graduates and probably did not have that accountability in the first place, but in defense of parents, it seems that many administrators are very passive with educational values. PTA’s are restricted from asserting efforts to improve. My daughter’s school got $100,000 in Title 1 money, but there isn’t really any sports, music, or arts programs to speak of.

And in defense of teachers, it is a lot harder in this day and age to teach a classroom full of children when half or more do not speak English. The challenges for teachers have increased through the years, but classroom sizes do not get any smaller. I think the whole community needs to be rallied together and made to re-evaluate our children’s educational needs and the goals that the board needs work towards.

By CKL in the ATL

November 29, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

Is the problem in Clayton County the teachers, the schools, the students, or the Clayton County Board of Education? If it’s the BOE, then that is what the headlines and news should state. This way people will know that the schools themselves are not the problem. This way good citizens will not be hesitant to reside in Clayton County.

By JR

November 29, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

meshal, I’ll give you one example about the quality of education in CCPS. I had 10th graders that couldn’t read on a 4th grade level. Not “didn’t wan’t to”, not “didn’t care to”, but couldn’t. You wonder why they have issues with the high school graduation test? 25% of them can’t read the damn thing. You can blame teachers, because it was teachers that continued to pass them every single year, but I can tell you this: teachers didn’t pass illiterate students on to the next grade because they wanted to. Read marci’s post a bit up the page; she hit the nail on the head.

By meshal

November 29, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this

JR,

I understand that the CCPS has its issues, but if you read my previous post, I stated that my son is private school and not the CCPS.

By JR

November 29, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

Sabrina, Clayton County doesn’t have classes that are 50% latino english as a second language speakers. That’s Henry Co, and they are doing pretty good. Matter of fact, that’s where many of your better teachers go when they leave Clayton.

Now, you do have classes where 50% of the class can’t READ english, but that’s a different matter.

By maysie

November 29, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

As a resident, I am the first to admit (& have done so on this blog already) that CCPS are the worst.

But it’s a trip that people make assumptions about Clayton & it’s residents based solely on news reports & being “advised” by others, many of whom have never been there & assume the entire county & everyone who lives there are like what they see on the news.

If you believe that, then obviously the educational system in the rest of the state is lacking as well if you can’t figure out that every county has some bad areas, which should not be a condemnation of the entire county.

No place in is perfect & bottom line is, the state of GA is circling the bottom of the barrel as far as education goes out of the entire USA period.

So what is the difference if your child is going to the best schools in a state that ranks next to last out of all the others anyway?

Clayton is far from a cesspool, I have never lived in one nor do I ever intend to. Further, every county has its problem areas but you hear about Clayton’s more often because the majority that live there are poor and minorities.

Further, if parents in Clayton did not value education, none of us would be posting here.

By Kimi

November 29, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

As Clayton County resident who is black, I just want to say to all the rest of you badmouthing us that it is ignorant to condemn an entire county based on the actions of a few, or the “advice” of some.

You know what I find hilarious? When I tell people I live in Clayton, I usually get a negative reaction.

When I ask if they have ever even been to Clayton, they admit they have not, they are just going by what they heard on television or from others. And when I ask if these “others” have ever been to Clayton, they don’t know the answer to that either.

This is the same as whites assuming when a black family moves into a neighborhood that it’s going down and they rush to move.

Clayton definitely has its problems, like every place else & I pray they can straighten them out. But bottom line is people should not be commenting at all on stuff they really have no direct knowledge of. It is counterproductive and a waste of everyone’s time.

But then again, badmouthing Clayton County makes you all feel so much better about your lives and helps you to believe you are safer then you are and better than those lowly Clayton folks. Whatever. Keep dreaming.

By Sabrina

November 29, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

My daughter’s 3rd grade class is at least 60 percent hispanic!!!

By Brenda

November 29, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

My 17 year old son attends school in Clayton County. He is a senior; today he brought his report card home with two A’s, three B’s and one C. He has already been accepted to one of the best Fashion and Designs schools in the nation. Why? Not because I have depended on the school system to educate him. I taught him to read and write when he was three years old. I check his grades and ensure that he does his homework. He is not allowed to hang out anywhere. He is not allowed to wear his pants hanging off his behind, nor does he desire to. I have spent my son’s life taking care that he becomes a respectful citizen. If all parents took care of their children, we would not have to worry about the school board members. There are too many children who are not being parented. This is the main problem we have in our schools. The failure rate is mainly due to a lack of parents teaching and discipline. It is not society’s responsibility to raise our children; it is ours and until we learn this, our children will continue to fail, ending up in juvenile and then off to prison. If you and your partner can not raise a child, do not get pregnant.

By Dee

November 29, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

CONCERNED PARENTS…

Please meet the BOE this evening for a Town Hall meeting at Virginia Burton Gray Recreation Center from 6:00pm to 9:00pm. The center is located at 1475 East Fayetteville Rd and the phone number is 770.603.4001

By Tonya C.

November 29, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

To those of you saying that some of us are badmouthing Clayton—-so be it. But for many perception = reality, so getting people to have a better perception of Clayton should be EXTREMELY important to those of you that live there. Like it or not, what is being said about the county is deterring many from moving there who might help that negative perception.

As far as the schools are concerned, the numbers speak for themselves. Georgia ain’t rocking the best numbers as far as education is concerned, which makes it that more critical for parents who give a damn not to have their kids in the worst of the worst schools. We already have an uphill battle to get our kids competitive with the rest of the country; no way on earth do we want to battle a crappy school system in a crappy education state to boot.

I moved here from Florida (South FL to be exact) which ranks lower than GA for education. I’ve fought the above-mentioned battle before and vowed never to do it again. I pay more to live in North Fulton in one of the better school districts because of that.

By JustMe

November 29, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

Oh geez - why must things like this evolve into some race issue? We are all people and the color of one’s skin doesn’t matter.

However, if you want to say that there is some difference in parent participation in schools between Clayton Co. and another County, that is a different matter, and certainly not a race thing.

By jim d

November 29, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

yeah Sabrina,

Sounds suspiciosly like a Mexican plot to drag our educational system down to their standards.

By catlady

November 29, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this

Many of the white “American” kids in my school are being dragged UP by our Latino students! They are the kids who are motivated, although they come from parents of modest means and very modest educational attainment. They understand about having to do better. They get honor roll and other honors at twice their percentage in the student body. Of course, we may still be getting the cream of the crop in terms of students with highly motivated alien parents. I DO notice that the longer the parents are here, the less motivated (more “white”?) their kids are behavior-wise and academically. Just my experience where I live, however.

By Ed. D.

November 29, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this

The decline of Clayton County schools started with the immmigration of generational poverty people from Atlanta, Fulton and Dekalb Counties. Instead of bringing necessary work skills, social and economic values to Clayton County; they brought in a culture of drugs, violence that includes murder and assult, and a no care attitude toward education. The current leadership of Clayton County is a disgrace ranging from School Board Members, County Commissioners, and the Sheriff that acts like Barney Fife. The only solution to make Clayton County schools viable is to implement a no nonsense discipline policy that includes uniforms and no tolerance for fighting and drug possession. Students who threaten teachers and refuse to do class work should be expelled immediately. The teachers have a right to teach in a safe environment. Did you know that over 700 teachers leave Clayton County Schools each year because of students blantant disrepect toward teachers and lack of administrative support? The bottom line is that no one cares and Clayton County is fast becoming one of the worst places to live in America.

By thomas

November 29, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this

Here’s the short route to the facts:

1) Black school board members fire white school superintendent (in 2002): SACS accuses school board members of malfeasance.

2) A black school board member has a conflict, files his complaint with SACS as part of a vendetta against Norresse Hayes and Sandra Scott (two blacks): SACS accuses school board members of malfeasance.

Maybe SACS just doesn’t like black school board members. Or maybe Clayton County is just their whipping board. In any case, WHO CARES?

First of all, Rod Johnson (the man who had the nerve to file a SACS complaint), Norreese Haynes, Sandra Scott, and Erika Davis (the horrid micromanaging, pompous, arrogant board chairperson) all have been doing questionable things. Yet SACS wants to target just Haynes and Scott. I say get ‘em all.

In my opinion, EVERY ONE OF THESE SACS INVESTIGATIONS HAVE BEEN NOTHING BUT A WITCH HUNT (INCLUDING THIS UPCOMING ONE) BECAUSE NOTHING BUT A SMEAR JOB HAS COME OF IT. No real change. Just black eyes.

I say leave the b******* alone and let ‘em burn up. After the place caves in due to poor management, maybe the people down there will get it together and focus on teaching children and stop bickering with each other like children.

By Mommy S

November 29, 2007 6:41 PM | Link to this

Oh Lori - I’m glad you are a former teacher in Clayton. It’s PRINCIPAL not principle….remember? the PRINCIPAL is your PAL?

By ustink

November 29, 2007 6:46 PM | Link to this

A few years ago Clayton County decided to elect individuals based on one criteria: the color of their skin and they are paying the price. The results have been tragic. Clayton County is now looked upon as a giant train wreck and the prospects look grim. Why would anyone move their unless it was for section 8 housing. Good luck!

By thomas

November 29, 2007 6:56 PM | Link to this

I did my student teaching in Clayton County and taught there for several years. I can honestly say that there were times it was pure hades. The students and parents were horrid. I got out as soon as it was feasible. Again, it wasn’t the teachers I worked with, administrators, or central office personnel that was in the problem. In fact I got along QUITE well with them. The problem I and many other teachers had was disrespectful students who refused to put forth any effort towards learning and parents who refused to guide their children’s education and blamed the school for everything.

However, there was a time when the Clayton County school system was beautiful. It was an innovator in educational theory and practice. Now….

I have some good memories of the Clayton County school system. But I for years and even after I left, I had nightmares. I would wake up in the middle of the SCREAMING!!!!

Good people moved out and monsters moved in. Between 1990 and 2000, that place just bottomed. After about 2003-2004, it was all over. They closed down the ATL projects and moved every thug down there. Soon hoods from all over the country came to Clayton. Birds of a feather flock together.

By Benjamin

November 29, 2007 7:44 PM | Link to this

It’s all about money. Who has the most to gain?

By Vexorg

November 29, 2007 8:26 PM | Link to this

The short term solution: Bring back DISCIPLINE, i.e. “The BOARD of education”, a.k.a. “The Paddle”.

20 years ago, it was NOT uncommon when a CHILD acted up in school, to be sent to the Principal’s office for a meeting with the “board of education”. The child LEARNED, albeit through the seat of their pants a simple life lesson - that NEGATIVE BEHAVIORS have NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES!

Children in the public schools today have NO FEAR of any school official; the child, not wanting to be made to “WORK” for their education, simply acts up….and is sent to a “time out” room. The child, easily learns that if they want to get away from that “mean old teacher” and not have to do any meaningful WORK, just act up, and we’ll send you to a room where you don’t have to do anything.

And using a threat like “we’ll call your parents” has little or no value, especially when the parent has the attiude that “its the GOVERNMENT’S JOB to educate my child - why are you bothering me about my child’s behavior….you’re supposed to be teaching them how to act!!!”.

Unfortunately, liberals and “educational theories” devised by “experts” (that have NEVER spent one day teaching children in a classroom) have become the standard in the public schools today. Is it any wonder WHY the school system is miserably FAILING to educate the children???

Oh, and before you “anti-violence” types lambast me about paddling children……ask yourself WHY private schools SUCCEED where the public schools are failing. YES, they DO allow paddling in the private schools…..and it is LEGAL in the public schools under guidelines in the Official Code of Georgia, Annotated. Read it for yourself, and ask why this method of discipline that WORKS, is not allowed by this school board??? -O.C.G.A. 20-2-731 When and how corporal punishment may be administered

By HS Teacher

November 29, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this

As a tax-payer employee in CCPS, I have watched it go from having one of the top 50 HS in the state go so low, people cringe when I say I live near it.

I have watched the quality of the administration plummet. As administrators proved to be incompetent, they were elevated to higher positions. As job openings occurred, someone already knew who would have the job before interviews were conducted.

Each year more and more experienced teachers leave: 500 one year, 650, 800, 900 and on and on EACH year. As Henry Co expanded, they had a ready pool of Highly Qualified teachers—former Clayton Co teachers.

There is mention in this blog of replacing all the BOE members: sounds great, but just WHO will you get to run for the office? Five BOE are up for re-election in 2008, and I assume the other 2 will be replaced even though they have not quite served 1 year on the BOE.

By Another former Clayton Co. teacher

November 29, 2007 8:42 PM | Link to this

I taught in Clayton County high schools (3 different ones) over a 13-year period in the 70’s and 80’s. The problems in the educational system go way back. I was told the following in my time as a teacher there: “These students have failed this class once. You will pass them if they come to class.” “If the parents don’t like Shakespeare, we won’t teach Shakespeare.” “We can’t issue textbooks to the students. They will just tear them up.” Unbelievable, huh?

By Jeffisgoofingoff

November 29, 2007 8:43 PM | Link to this

Clayton County is full of ex Atlanta leaders that had lost their influence in Atlanta politics. Its going to be a fight to the death to try to correct anything about the situation.

Wait about 30 years or so to really start experiencing change in that area of town.

By Marie Hudson

November 29, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this

We must cease electing members based on their color…I vote in every election and I didnot vote for any of the members of the board… these members are not qualified to serve on any board.. much less a school board…your children’s future is going down hill.. Most parents dont even know there is a board in place so they certainly dont vote …There should be a recall or whatever it takes to remove these people.. We can’t afford to lose again !!!We have to stop electing people because they are black ..All black people are not qualified and it is a fact that when we take over things go down hill because white folks are not going to support us…………………

By yep

November 29, 2007 9:50 PM | Link to this

I live in the Panhandle of Clayton Co. (not for long) where its not as bad as the rest of Clayton Co. My kids go to a private school. I wouldn’t send my dog to Clayton Co. schools. A couple of years ago I was shopping in Fayette Co. and saw a group of black women wearing t-shirts that said “we took over Clayton Co., Fayette Co. is next” I was amused by the shirts, and evenmore today. Yes you have, and where has it gotten you 1. the worst school district in the state. 2. the most unsafe school district in the state 3. a county with one of the highest “violent” crime rates in the state 4. the county with the highest mortgage forclosures in the country all I can say is “Job well done”

By Vee

November 29, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this

AMEN, Vexorg! AMEN!

The problems are school administrators are so dang scared of potential lawsuits, and some (not all) parents have the philosophy of “Nobody better touch my baby.” Yet, their “babies” are the ones who are going to end up in front of a judge or in a grave prematurely someday.

As soon as parents and education administrators get back to the “spare the rod, spoil the child” truth that is so explicitly spelled out in the Bible, our education system will see a great change for the better. Until then, our children, and ultimately our society, will continue on a fast and furious path into hell.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

November 30, 2007 12:06 AM | Link to this

Attn: Clayton Parents. The AJC story does NOT give an accurate picture of the ENTIRE story. I don’t fault AJC reporter Megan Matteucci for this, as I believe she is a recent transplant to Georgia and thus doesn’t have the “backstory” of the Rod Johnson and the Clayton school board needed to understand the FULL story. Megan, if you’ll please look into the following, I think you’ll find plenty to report on. You might rightly conclude this is nothing but retaliation on Rod Johnson’s part for being EXPOSED on the following:

-Rod Johnson’s wife is a Clayton County employee. She is also a member of the Georgia General Assembly. By law she is supposed to forego her Clayton County school system salary while the General Assembly is in session. She has been ILLEGALLY “double dipping” from both. This has been confirmed by an Open Records request.

Think Rod Johnson might have been a little upset that Norreese Haynes exposed the fact that the Johnson family has been taking money from the taxpayers’ pocket, and putting it in their pocket?

Rod Johnson’s allegations to SACS are nothing but a red herring to deflect attention from the possibly illegal acts that Johnson has engaged in. Remember, the first red herring was the ridiculous allegation that Norreese Haynes took a ten million dollar bribe. How stupid is that?

Megan you reported this patently ridiculous charge by Johnson, so please report Rod Johnson publicly recanted this allegation. If the entire readership of the AJC saw the allegation, the entire readership of the AJC needs to see that he recanted it. It goes to Johnson’s credibility, or rather lack of.

Why SACS would give credence to anything Johnson has to say after something so stupid as “a ten MILLION dollar bribe” is beyond comprehension. (Can anybody even recall even a governor or a United States Senator getting a “ten million dollar bribe” much less a local school board member? Please.)

If SACS wants to investigate any question (and if Megan wants to know what Rod Johnson is truly afraid of) they can both investigate the following: Did Rod Johnson KNOWINGLY hire an accused child sexual predator as a bodyguard to Gloria Duncan to keep tabs on her when she first became interim superintendent?

Yes, I know this is an EXPLOSIVE allegation. But this is NOT “idle blogsphere speculation”. The Clayton News-Daily did an extensive “Special Report” on this.

A bodyguard was indeed hired for Duncan though not at her request. The only board member who appears to have had any ties to the bodyguard is Rod Johnson.

And, in what is a matter of public record, the “bodyguard” was arrested for suspicion of child molestation in a case involving two 14 year old girls.

Think Rod Johnson was just a bit upset that Norreese Haynes exposed this and Rod Johnson lost his “personal spy” on Duncan?

Think Rod Johnson is just a bit upset that, as a result of Norreese Haynes’ exposing this, the Clayton News-Daily has found compelling evidence that Rod Johnson KNOWINGLY hired an accused child sexual predator?

One would think that if SACS wasn’t pursuing their own agenda and was concerned about the children of Clayton that they’d investigate FIRST and FOREMOST if Rod Johnson was so power hungry, so desperate to “keep tabs” on Duncan that he KNOWINGLY hired an accused child sexual predator to a position where he could very well have had DIRECT contact with children! I would urge Megan to ask about THAT, given the compelling evidence the News-Daily gathered, rather than give the time of day (or even a speck of newsprint) to some totally ridiculous “ten million dollar bribe” that Johnson was forced to recant.

I haven’t even mentioned the “organizational chart” that Johnson is alleged to have attempted to foist on Duncan that gave a major job promotion to his wife, because as unethical as that is, it pales in comparison to KNOWINGLY hiring an accused child sexual predator to work in a school system.

What does it say that the News-Daily felt there was enough evidence to print it, Norreese Haynes and Sandra Scott both felt strongly enough about it to comment on it, but Rod Johnson has REPEATEDLY refused comment on it?

Rod Johnson’s silence says VOLUMES. Ask yourself this readers: School board member Norrese Haynes is accused of something so stupid as a “ten million dollar bribe”. School board member Rod Johnson is accused of, after an exhaustive investigation KNOWINGLY hiring an accused child sexual predator in a ploy to keep tabs on the superintendent’s movements.

Assuming BOTH were innocent, which one do you think should be shouting a denial from the rooftops? Norrese Haynes made a heated denial, forcing Rod Johnson to recant. But even though Johnson has been accused of KNOWINGLY hiring an accused child sexual predator he has REPEATED REFUSED, when given the opportunity to deny he did it.

Readers I ask, why isn’t SACS looking into that? Megan I ask, why aren’t YOU looking into that?

You may not be a fan of Norreese Haynes. You may not be a fan of MACE. Or you may not know much about either. But I think that any reader of this post would have to admit that these are LEGITIMATE questions that deserve to be answered.

These are questions that go to the heart and soul of these allegations against Haynes and Scott. Nothing but pure retaliation for Haynes taking on the black power structure when he came on the school board (Rod Johnson, Ericka Davis, and at the time Barbara Pulliam)

This is Rod Johnson’s “power play” to discredit Norrese Haynes hoping the voters don’t have the background on the fact that Norreese Haynes, in one short year on the board:

-exposed wrong doing on a multi-million dollar land deal supported by Pulliam, Johnson and Davis (his concerns have since be vindicated by grand jury findings)

-exposed the fact that Rod Johnson’s wife has been illegally “double dipping” from the Georgia General Assembly and the Clayton County school board (confirmed by an Open Records request)

-made sure a “bodyguard” who was arrested on child molestation charges was fired, which brought into question whether or not Rod Johnson KNOWINGLY hired him in a ploy to “keep tabs” on Duncan (concerns supported by a News-Daily article that Rod Johnson has REPEATEDLY refused to address)

Readers who’ve made it this far, you NOW have the background. Megan you now have the background. Yes this is long and exhaustive. But Norreese Haynes is a good man, who’s done good things on the school board and he deserves the FULL and COMPLETE story to be in the AJC on the blog AND in newsprint.

Megan I urge you to come on this blog and tell us, in light of this information you have been given, what steps you are willing to take to get the COMPLETE story out there.

Thank you for taking the time to consider these points.

By Been There, Suffered Through It

November 30, 2007 2:30 AM | Link to this

Oh, my word … where to begin, where to begin! The CCPS had one of the finest systems in the NATION back through the 70s, 80s, and early 90s. The music programs were ESPECIALLY strong and it was common for bands and other music groups to appear on the programs of regional and national music education conferences. Then, something started shifting in the demographics of the county in the early/mid-90s. Still, the system held together. Through the leadership of Dan Colwell and his assistant, David Gregory, the school system faced the challenges. Then some uppity lady on the board stirs up a stink (circa 2000.) Next thing we know, Colwell and Gregory are gone, the system gradually starts to turn to muck, and the it gets into hot water with SACS. New superintendent, mediocre results. Another new superintendent, worse results. And so on and so on. And school administrators continue to be promoted (many of whom have not a clue about educating children.) Has anyone looked at the outrageous salaries principals receive? Some may earn it (I’m sure they do) but some sit on their ever-expanding laurels, like the bimbo I worked for who is slowly “working” her way to the top of the food chain. She had no human interaction skills, ran her school like a prison warden, and alienated some fine teachers. (The thing someone posted earlier about Henry County getting top-notch experienced educators was right on target … ) Students in the school I last taught at were allowed to get away with bloody murder but if I, a damn good teacher, demanded respect and polite talk and manners in my classroom, I was accused of being a RACIST. It turns my stomach to think of fine people in the Clayton County School System of years past, working their fingers to the bone to develop a GREAT school system, having to watch their hard work go right down the tubes now, all because of a jello-spined board with a few noteable bigmouths seated on it (in the past). It’s scandalous, what has happened out there in Clayton County, but I believe, deep down, everyone knows WHY this happened. Why didn’t it happen in Gwinnett? Cobb? Forsyth? Henry? Rockdale? YOU know why. And those of you ready to deal your “card” from the deck know why, too. A shame …..

By becky mattix

November 30, 2007 5:44 AM | Link to this

PARENTS, ORGANIZE, AND GET YOUR BUTTS TO EVERY SCHOOL BOARD MEETING AND START DEMANDING CHANGE. REMEMBER, THESE ARE YOUR CHILDREN AND YOU PAY THESE FOLKS SALARIES. DUH!

By Hick from the Sticks

November 30, 2007 7:31 AM | Link to this

And it took someone this long to mention MACE.

The Metro Atlanta Coalition of Educators.

I remember some high ranking officials of MACE that had some pretty good jobs at North Clayton.

Whew.

Takes me back…

Takes me back to where I used to be, over at Riverdale.

I’ve got the scars. Want to see?

I was also accused of racism from my students (at least once, that I can recall…)

I simply smiled and informed the student that “racist” is such a negative word.

I prefer the nomenclature “Blue Eyed Devil”.

Wow. What can you say?

I know a Kaplan curriculum program isn’t going to fix the issue— (Taxpayers, get in on this. Quick. It’s your dollar.)putting scripted curriculum in schools that lack basic discipline and quality teachers is akin to dispensing band-aids to victims of shotgun wounds.

I’m just sayin’…

By Lee

November 30, 2007 7:34 AM | Link to this

Just this week we are being treated to the “Achievement Gap Summit,” a conference in Sacramento, California. It will draw no fewer than 4,000 uplift experts to no fewer than 125 panels. [Summit called to address racial disparities in academic performance, By Nanette Asimov, San Francisco Chronicle, November 12, 2007]. One of the organizers is Jack O’Connell, California’s top bureaucrat for schools. He has announced the bold discovery that lagging black and Hispanic test scores are not caused by poverty alone. The racial gaps in achievement are even greater for middle-class and wealthy children than for poor children, he has found. So, he says, something else must be going on.

According to a new report from the National Center for Education Statistics, rural school children significantly outperform urban school children. Students tend to get along with each other better in the rural schools. Teachers in rural schools are more likely to speak favorably of their school even though they are paid less. There is also reportedly more civic engagement between the rural schools with their local community than at urban schools. The report also says that civic engagement is better at rural schools than suburban and performance tends to be equal to suburban schools. Washington AP reporter Nancy Zuckerbrod tries to explain this without mentioning race, even though the report itself says race is an indicator as to what the performance of a school will be! The report also points out 35% of urban school children are white, 62% of suburban school children are white, and 78% of rural school children are white.

Quit dancing around the issue. Quit trying to deny that the racial makeup of the school has nothing to do with the performance of said school.

School administrators see the effects of racial demographics every day. Not too long ago, AJC ran a story about how Cobb County officials were playing games with redistricting in order to get more white students into McEachern in order to prop up test scores.

Many on this blog have chronicled the demise of Clayton County schools. The facts are, Clayton was 24% black in 1990, 51% black in 2000, and 62% black in 2005. For good measure, throw in a significant percentage of hispanic kids who don’t speak English.

When you replace kids with IQ’s of 100+ with kids who have IQ’s of 85, what the he11 do you expect?

By Diogenes

November 30, 2007 7:37 AM | Link to this

The problems, I fear, go way beyond the school board. The board is simply a reflection of the parents who support them. Unfortunately, Clayton has been overrun with crppy parents, raising crppy kids, with no values, discipline, or desire to learn.

We are a nation rapidly becoming divided, not by race, but by cultural values. There are those (of all races) who value personal responsibility, self-betterment, effective parenting, and education … and there are those who don’t. Unfortunately, the “dont’s” have descended upon Clayton like a plague of locusts, and in the end, are getting exactly what they deserve (these kind of people invariably ruin everything they touch, then sit back and demand that responsible people save them from themselves).

It is a truism that “We get the government we deserve.” Garbage begets garbage. To the good people living in Clayon (of all races), and I am sure there are many, the only option is to get out. Fast.

By Lee

November 30, 2007 7:57 AM | Link to this

A couple more facts….

AOL had an article listing the top 100 schools in America. Here are the top 5:

(5) Montpelier High, Montpelier VT. Minority enrollment not given.

(4) Oxford Academy, Cypress CA. Minority enrollment 12.3%.

(3) International Baccalaureate Program, Bartow FL. Minority enrollment 10.7%.

(2) Pacific Collegiate Charter, Santa Cruz CA. Minority enrollment 4.8%.

(1) Thomas Jefferson High, Alexandria VA. Minority enrollment 4.5%.

You can draw your own conclusions. I already have…

By V for Vendetta

November 30, 2007 8:16 AM | Link to this

Lee,

While all of what you said may be true, this is NOT a race issue. As I said before, the majority of people living in Clayton may be in minority groups (fast becoming the majority), but that’s not what the problem is. All of the metro counties have dealt with a boom in minority growth, and none have suffered the way Clayton has suffered. Even Dekalb, which has changed dramatically over the past twenty years, has managed to maintain some level of respectability in its school system.

No, the problem is the CULTURE and the VALUES. Just as all white people don’t believe in the same cultural values, neither do all black or hispanic people. The ones that care about education obviously aren’t in Clayton. And yes, meshal, Clayton IS a cesspool.

Look, I live in a mostly white area, but when I take a trip down to the super Wal-Mart I see more white trash teens in the baby section than adults. They’re ignorant, pathetic trashy morons, who will never amount to a hill of beans in life. Funny, we don’t go mouthing off about how they’re white and that’s an explanation for how stupid they are. Far from it, they’re stupid because they were raised in a culture of stupidity. They have stupid white trash parents, who were also raised in a culture of stupidity. The same is true of blacks, hispanics, asians, etc. I’m not saying that some cultures tend to have more high achievers than others, I’m just saying that using race as an explanation is a bit weak.

The problem in Clayton is simple: the MAJORITY of people in that county are ignorant fools, who are perfectly happy to let the county flush itself down the toilet. It’s a culture of stupidity down there, and stupid has no race or color.

By jim d

November 30, 2007 8:40 AM | Link to this

Why in the world do some people constantly attempt to play the race card every opportunity?

Allow me to point out that the largest school system in the state (GCPS) is generally rated one of the better systems, and that system my friends IS a MAJORITY/MINORITY school system

By JR

November 30, 2007 8:42 AM | Link to this

It’s easy to point the finger at changing demographics an say “the higher the % of black students, the worse the school”, but that is not really the truth.

It’s about values.

It really sits in the values of parents, because they are the ones who will elect school baord members with certain values, will support administrators with certain values, and will raise their children to have certain values.

Here is the worst thing: the kids aren’t dumb. Yes, the system is 60+% black, and a chunck of ESL hispanics. But the kids aren’t dumb. The kids just aren’t being set up for success. When the school board’s primary concern is winning personal infighting, and their secondary concern is promoting as many people as possible who share their values, it doesn’t matter what kind of students and teachers you have. The students who want to learn can’t, because expecting discipline and performance is now “racist”. The teachers who want to teach can’t, because they are prevented from having a stable, secure learning environment. The problems start at the school board, but they are manifested in the classroom. The school I taught at had 2 student assaults on teachers that year, but know what happened? Each student got a week vacation, and the teachers were told to get control of their classrooms (except “get control” can’t involve anything more harsh than a phone call to parents…anything more is “racist”). That’s not because of race, it’s because of values.

Parents, you MUST go to the school board and DEMAND change. Your system is being plowed under by a small, vocal minority which is more interested in position than your children. Some of you are going to HAVE to step up and become the new board. You know members of your church and community who would do an outstanding job; talk to them, tell the community about them, and elect them as the board. They don’t have to be experts, they just have to keep the race card in their wallet and put their community first. It doesn’t really matter to me; I left Clayton Co and am living somewhere else, with school systems where the board is expected to care more about education than personal power, where the principals are expected to lead, the teachers are expected to instruct, and the students are expect to learn. It’s not shangri-la, but at least the kids have a chance. You can keep your jacked-up system just like it is if you want.

By Lee

November 30, 2007 9:42 AM | Link to this

Why in the world do some people constantly attempt to play the race card every opportunity?

Wrong question. The correct question is “Why in the world can’t we have a logical, fact-based discussion on the effect that changing demographics have on our society (schools included).*

Jim D states that Gwinnett school system is now majority/minority. What he didn’t say is that Gwinnett County was 91% white in 1990 and is still 70% white in 2005. As a result, they still have a lot of support for the schools even though the demographics are changing. Still, white and asian enrollment is over 50% (Asians have an average IQ higher than whites). The lowest IQ group (blacks) only comprise 26% of enrollment.

V raises the question of race vs culture. Good point. I ask you this in return, do you think that a group of people with an average IQ of 100 would have a different culture than a group with an average IQ of 85? Seems to me we are getting back to that chicken or egg thing….

By SET

November 30, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

Jim D: You need to get real about the race thing.

You can’t run a school system with an IQ 85 group alongside an IQ 100 group. The two groups - if you have them functioning as distinct groups - are “culturally” incompatible.

Brown vs Board Of Education was a tragic mistake that distroyed the US school systems & the cities of the USA. A realistic decision in that case would have been for the government schools to be free to segregate as the locals required based on IQ/aptitude.

In hindsight, racially segregated (compulsory education) schools worked and thereafter colleges being segregated by ability resulted in the graduates entering the marketplace with their degrees being valid as meaning something. We’ve replaced that with a compulsory education system that teaches nothing - and reinforces bad behavior - and Affirmative Action Colleges where the black graduates are presumed (statistically likely) to be of vastly lower quality to the white graduates.

With Brown being the current law the only way to manage the disaster we have is to return school standards to 1955 levels and to crush or drive out those (mainly blacks) who don’t perform at the reinstated level of deportment and academics. That would resegregate the schools with the continuation schools being the local black schools. This would brand all the failures as failures who were rejected, rather than just starting them out in schools that met their special needs. Too Bad. But we need to do what we have to to save the education of the majority of the non-rich (the rich are are all at private or public-ivy schools by now).

Brave New World.

And by BNW I mean we have willingly moved to a society with a small aristocracy who live, work, educate and marry among themselves while a huge hereditary proletariat are stuck on the bottom - with prole schools and a different language and culture to make them distinct from the ruling class.

By V for Vendetta

November 30, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

Lee and SET,

I agree with your scientific facts, and the values of the respective cultures AS A WHOLE tend to back it up, but what I’m saying is: If we don’t hold EVERY group to a higher standard, what do we expect to happen? To answer my own question: Clayton County, that’s what.

In my mind, a truly diverse school system offering a variety of curricula would be able to graduate succesful CP and Technical students with high achievement rates. The IQ factor would become a non-issue, because the kids would have a variety of paths to choose. They could find the one that suits their lifestyle best, and become quite succesful at it. But one thing would remain the same no matter which path they took, the expectations at the school and home level would be HIGH.

Look, I have no idea how best to make that happen, much less how to turn around the blight that is Clayton County. Lee and SET are right, it is MUCH more difficult to manage a cultural group with a generally substandard IQ, but I think it can be done. It has to start in the home, though. But that’s the biggest challenge of all.

By Ms. Thing

November 30, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this

SET and all the others who think that blacks have the lowest IQs,

I have a couple of questions. First, how are the IQs tested? I already know, but I want you to tell everyone else how they are done, since you’re so smart. Perhaps if the so-called high IQ group was given the same IQ tests in a different cultural language, there would be a great paradigm shift. In the words of 90’s TV icon, Arsenio Hall, it’s just something to make you go, “Hmmm.”

Second, if blacks are so stupid (as you are implying), how did Oprah Winfrey and Dr. Ben Carson (the renowned neurosurgeon, and countless other blacks, get to where they are? Both Oprah and Dr. Ben Carson were born to poor, teenage parents who had (and enforced) high expectations of their children. Aha! There’s your answer!

The answer to Clayton County’s problems is to have high standards of ALL students. Also, as Vexorg stated earlier, corporal punishments needs to be reinstituted. I firmly believe that the pairing of high standards (academically and behaviorally) and corporal punishment would greatly diminish the problems. Who knows what kind of potential “Oprahs” and “Dr. Carsons” there may be in Clayton County if parents, students, educators, and even the school board members would do what they’re supposed to.

By Lee

November 30, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

Ms Thing, here is some info. Regarding Dr. Carson and others, might want to read up on the concept of a statistical “normal distribution.”

The black-white gap is 15 points when measured on the Wechsler tests, 18 on the Stanford-Binet. Both tests are, of course, normed so as to produce an average of 100, but the white average is a bit higher. On the Wechsler metric, whites and blacks average 102 and 87, respectively. On both tests, the gap between the races is almost exactly 1 SD (standard deviation). The gap of 1 SD has been observed since the earliest days of intelligence testing.

There are also significant black-white differences in the structure of mental abilities. The test-score patterns show that the two groups are good at different things. On average, whites do better on all the subtests, but their margin of superiority varies considerably from one subtest to another. Or look at it this way: If you took a sample of black and white children, all of whom had scored around 100 on the WISC-R — that is, the black kids in the sample were above the black average — you would expect to find significant black-white differences on six of the thirteen subtests. The average black kid would do better on Arithmetic and Digit Span; the average white kid would do better on Comprehension, Block Design, Object Assembly, and Mazes …

These subtest differences have one common theme, and its name is g. The tests on which the gap is greatest are those with the most g-loading — which means, in general, those that call most heavily on reasoning and problem-solving abilities. The June 1985 issue of The Behavioral and Brain Sciences carries a long report by Arthur Jensen analyzing eleven sizable studies of black-white IQ differences. The underlying data had been collected by different researchers at different times (but none before 1970). All the studies had several things in common: All were based on large population samples, all measured a broad range of mental abilities, and all included black-white breakdowns of their various subtests.

In all eleven studies, Jensen found consistently strong positive correlations between the size of the black-white gap on subtests and the extent to which the subtests called on g … The correlation coefficient, after appropriate adjustments, appears to be well above .60.

In other words, the black-white IQ gap is in large measure a reflection of differences in reasoning and problem-solving ability.

This was not exactly news in 1985. Long before Jensen set out to quantify the “g effect” in black-white differences, it was generally well known that the differences were greatest in measures of abstract reasoning, not so great in measures of verbal skill, smallest of all in memory and rote learning.

Excerpted from A Question of Intelligence: The IQ Debate in America (New York: Birch Lane, 1992), 150-153.

By Ms. Thing

November 30, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

Lee,

Unfortunately, my “ADD” kicked in when I read that excerpt. To be honest, when I asked you and SET to explain your belief that blacks’ intelligence is inferior to that of whites, I was being somewhat facetious. My point was those so-called IQ tests are and have always been culturally biased. Plainly said, if you took those same tests and put them in languages that reflect the test-takers’ culture, the results would be different. Enough said.

If blacks are so intellectually superior, why do other “races” steal what blacks originate and capitalize on those ideas? Dang, I answered my own question. By the way, you never really answered my questions, although you attempted to with the excerpt. As the Rev. Dr. Martin L. King, Jr.’s father told him, “Make it plain.”

Anyway, to remain on topic, again I say that parents and educators of Clayton County should demand higher expectations of their children/students.

By Ms. Thing

November 30, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this

Lee, I forgot to add that Dr. Carson and Oprah were not born of “genius” parents. They were born to parents who insisted that their children take education seriously. Dr. Carson’s mother, Sonya, was a teenager that had two children. She allowed her sons to watch only one TV program a day. The other hours were spent studying. Oprah’s father and her stepmother insisted that Oprah read at least two books a week, with a required report, when she was sent to live with them after having a baby at age 14. My local hero, Bridget Stewart, the young lady AJC featured a few years ago, succeeded in the classroom and graduated from Spelman college, despite growing up in a shack. Her mother would not let her date until she was 18 years old. If these people’s parents had allowed them to accept what others thought of them, they, too, would have been “normal”, inferior black folks.

Your point is

By SET

November 30, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I’m not the one using the term “inferior” describing black skillset. People who can’t deal with reality use words like that.

Black average IQ is clearly lower than the other ethnics, as White average IQ is clearly lower than Jews & Asians. Get over it. Nobody wants to trade places.

The term inferior is what some people like to throw around. Try different. Higher IQs have liabilities that seem to accompany it. In this post I’m not going to list the weaknesses of the “smarter” groups, or the advantages of the “dumber” groups. Or the appetites of all of them. Lets just use your imagination. IQ is not everything.

In education policy we want all our citizens to be able to support themselves and carry their weight in society. We are systematically destroying the employability and even the life expectancy of the proletariat in the US - (yes, they are the people most dependent on public schools) by refusing to fit the schools to the different races’ needs.

We run the whole system at an increasingly lower common denominator until education has ceased. We do this in order to accomodate the lower functioning groups who we are afraid of annoying with discipline and demands to produce or get out.

There would be some racial crossover but by and large the schools would be segregated (by ability) - just like they used to be and are still when they are working well.

Whatever an individual’s potential is, they need to be disciplined and educated to the extent a school system can. We need a merit based system of placement and advancement. We should not be running government jungle schools where students and staff live in chaos.

By Attn: Clayton County Parents

November 30, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this

If Mark thinks the problem in Clayton is that teachers have too much power, because a board member, GOD FORBID, supports the teachers right to discipline, then Mark is CLUELESS to the realities in Clayton, and for that matter the realities of education altogether.

Two board members. One is part of an organization that supports teachers in their jobs. The other appears to support hiring accused CHILD SEXUAL PREDATORS to work in the school system where then can have DIRECT contact with children.

If Mark’s bias as such that he will blame a board member who supports teachers for the school board’s problems but TOTALLY IGNORES a board member who KNOWINGLY hired an accused child sexual predator, then Mark has shown us he has either A) ZERO knowledge or B) ZERO credibility or C) both A and B

By t williams

November 30, 2007 7:58 PM | Link to this

John Trotter

John Trotter

John Trotter

John Trotter

By Ms. Thing

November 30, 2007 9:38 PM | Link to this

SET, aren’t the words “lower” and “inferior” slightly synonymous? Gee, a genius like you should know that.

It’s so humorously coincidental that your comments, like Black average IQ is clearly lower than the other ethnics, as White average IQ is clearly lower than Jews & Asians, are examples of what I taught my class this week. My class learned about faulty generalizations, and your comments are great examples of such. I would NEVER tell my students (all of whom are black) the garbage you have spewn. I guess to you, Oprah, Dr. Carson, Condoleeza, and I are exceptions to the “rule.” Yeah, I included myself because you can clearly see that I don’t have a low IQ.

As for my “[getting] over it”, I’ve gotten over it a long time ago. I have long accepted the fact that people are entitled to their opinions—not matter how idiotic they (the opinions, that is) and self-loathing they are. I sincerely pity you and people who think like you.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

November 30, 2007 11:42 PM | Link to this

Thank you t williams for your “John Trotter, John Trotter, John Trotter, John Trotter” post. SUCH a cogent argument. Tell you what. I’ve already made the case that Rod Johnson is the REAL problem on the school board.

Read the earlier post, then step up to the plate and make the case that he ISN’T. If you can.

By Lee

December 1, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

Ms Thing, so you don’t agree with me. That’s fine. Like you said, you’re entitled to your own opinion - no matter how idiotic it is.

But… Save your pity for the students who have been fed a steady diet of politically-correct, feel-good dogma and who one day will graduate into the real world and be slapped in the face by the cold, hard hand of Mr. Reality.

Maybe in preparation for that day, you can give them the following generalization:

What does not kill us, makes us stronger.

By SET

December 1, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

Ms Thing. Thanks for posting your comments on this thread. You are a teacher and are insulated from the real word to some extent. You see, you don’t have to see your students live and die following the politically correct lies you teach them.

Your response was emotional which is sad. If you are teaching High School you should be over emotion and be able to follow a discussion logically. You seem to think that I either created the datasets that are the basis for the “Bell Curve” research or somehow responsible for blacks having a constant and easily measured IQ gap. So you namecall me which is kind of endearing in a way. This is an example of your need to have somebody to blame for unpleasant facts.

I didn’t make these facts up and may have been a skeptical as you for a little while when I started covering this research in college. But it’s been a lifetime since college and I can see the effects of the IQ gaps all around the US and the world and throughout history. Deal with it.

In GA you have been a little insulated from the future. In CA we see the effects on blacks when the US government moves in millions of Mexican Indians who have an avg IQ above that of blacks but well below whites who in turn are well below the Asian also being imported. Let”s just say that in my lifetime I am seeing living standards plunge and mortality rates climb for blacks. Simply put, survival is now the issue. Bucause the public schools are not educating urban blacks they don’t wear well and are winding up dead (AIDS) and institutionalized (life in prison on 3 strikes) at the very highest rates.

Your refusal to to “deal with it” on the IQ thing is an essential part of why this is happening everywhere. We can train lower IQ people to survive and stay out of trouble. In time & across generations - there are things that can be done to improve IQ levels.

This is not going to happen in the time we have to make a difference.

Brave New World.

By SET

December 1, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

Ms Thing: More observations.

You do have an IQ Problem. No insult, it’s just that you are not looking or thinking beyond your immediate touch. A review of your scoring - SAT for example - would likely show low average. You are not in business to detect and avoid discrete or subtle trouble in the future. I am. Lucky Me I suppose. I’d be happier as a teacher only worried about the day’s curriculum rather than keeping other people from destroying themselves.

Your Comments about Oprah and C Rice. Darn right. Blacks have genuises but far fewer of them per thousand than the other groups. On the left side of the curve Blacks have more retardeds per thousand than whites. You see this in Special Ed classes. The Bell Curve is shifted to the left for blacks - the farthest to the left of any of the ethnic groups in the US. Why this is so is subject to debate. The placement of the curve is no longer subject to debate.

Your pride in hiding all this from your students is horrible. Your kids will walk out of school into the freeway of life and not know what hits them. Meanwhile educated kids from the private schools heading into university level work not only know about human biodiversity but can debate (and there is a debate) why and how things got this way and where it will end.

I see people like your students in the halls of the courthouse and in custody. They would be doing better if they’d had teachers like me. Maybe they would “like” you better. Maybe not. And if you are put off by my comments you would really be upset hearing my Medical Profession relatives talk about dead men walking - blacks and their mismanagement of medical issues.

My father was a physician and nearly all of his patients were black. Guess what? We have physicians in the generation under me now. They don’t want to see lower class black patients. They have structured their practices to not have them around. They have lots of experience in training - especially cadaver work - with the ghetto. Now they are avoiding county hospitals, setting their offices well away from the ghetto - and not accepting “medicaid insurance”. Good for them.

Brave New World.

By catlady

December 1, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

Someone needs to explain to Ms. Thing the dubious “value” of Aunty Em stories like hers.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

December 1, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this

SACS must have an IQ problem, since they are willing to ignore the evidence that BOE member Rod Johnson KNOWINGLY hired an accused child sexual predator as a “bodyguard” for the superintendent.

Or perhaps they have their OWN ethics problem, since they are also ignoring the fact that an Open Records request has CONFIRMED that Rod Johnson’s wife was illegally receiving her Clayton County salary while away at the Georgia General Assembly.

No instead SACS chooses to “investigate” the Rod Johnson’s allegation that a fellow board member took a ten MILLION dollar bribe, an allegation he was forced to PUBLICLY recant.

Maybe Clayton County parents need to investigate SACS.

By t williams

December 1, 2007 6:41 PM | Link to this

John Trotter

John Trotter

John Trotter

John Trotter

By Ms. Thing

December 1, 2007 7:04 PM | Link to this

SET, Apparently, you’re the one with the “in touch with reality” problem. The reality is research findings can be as biased as anything. I actually started laughing about your little comment about my “IQ problem”. My opinions have nothing to do with IQ. Continue to live with your, as the old folks would say, “uppity ni——” (bourgeoisie) attitude. At the end of the day, to some people, you’re still a n——- when they see you. Brave old and new world. (By the way, you may want to check your spelling. The word is “retards”, not “retardeds”.)

Lee, are saying that I should teach my students that blacks are intellectually inferior to other races? If you think so, I’ll continue to live in dream world. I teach my students the value of hard work, consequences for actions, and the fact that there is NO excuse for them not to succeed, no matter what color they are. They learn that the quality of life is about choices. I teach them that at the end of the day, Momma, Daddy, Big Momma, etc. won’t be there to rescue them all the time. Finally, I teach my students that there are people who believe that they are inferior, but they can prove those people wrong by getting a good education and being productive, law-abiding citizens.

Catlady, care to explain the “dubious ‘value’ of [my] Aunty Em [story]” to me? Gee, you’re claws are beginning to show (pun intended). You see, I tell my students that they have opportunities available to them that I didn’t even have a little over 15 years ago, and it would be stupid if they didn’t take advantage of them.

I choose to uplift and encourage my students, like the renowned educator, Marva Collins, did. I also correct them consistently just to show them that that there are consequences for one’s actions. I refuse to tell my kids that they are inferior because if they continue to listen to people like you, they will be. I guess if Oprah had listened to people tell her how broad her nose is and the fact that she had a baby at 14, she wouldn’t be a billionaire now. If Dr. Carson had settled for being at the bottom of his class, he wouldn’t be a neurosurgeon now. If Bridgett Stewart had listened to the people who teased her about living in a shack in the late 1990’s, she would not be a recent Spelman graduate. The list goes on and on.

So, I’ll continue to live in Kansas, Oz, or wherever.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

December 1, 2007 8:27 PM | Link to this

t williams,

Thank you again for SUCH an intelligent contribution to this forum. The case was laid out CLEARLY that Rod Johnson is problem on the school board, and you were given an open challenge to refute it.

You are obviously NOT equal to the task, as evidence by your REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM REDRUM like rendition of “John Trotter”.

If that’s the best you can do, you are obviously CLUELESS as to the realities of today’s public school classroom. I would challenge you to “walk the walk” and try teaching in a classroom, but morally and ethically, I can’t subject a group of students to the sight of an adult at the blackboard, standing in a puddle of urine, while sobbing uncontrollably, “Dr. Trotter was right!”

By SET

December 1, 2007 8:32 PM | Link to this

Ms Thing: The raw emotion in your writing is so typical. Well, that’s life. How many times did you use the word “inferior”? You protest too much. I don’t feel inferior to anybody and I’m not the surgeon, chemist or such other family members who went in that direction. Having a higher or a lower IQ is what it is. Everyone has something. You keep saying this is all about “inferiority”. Makes you better able to sleep at night, I suppose.

It’s not about you. And it’s not about being inferior. IQ distribution is not equal but varies from race to race and in different nations. The causes of the gaps are subject to some debate. Do you seriously have no coverage of this from college level education?

When you educate your charges - and I’m not sure you’ve told us what grade levels we are talking about - do you cover biodiversity - racial differences - racial gaps - at all? Do you in any way deal with the stats on who goes to prison and premature death at what rates? As an educator how exactly do you deal with the existance and reasons for racial gaps in everything from mortality tables to literacy? Exactly what is your educational training and work experience anyway?

By catlady

December 1, 2007 8:47 PM | Link to this

Ms. Thing. I think you’ve misunderstood me, or I was not very clear. It sounds like your story is a good and uplifting one. By Aunty Em I was referencing your use of a few terrific success stories to prove your point, rather than data at large.

Re your claim of racial bias on some IQ tests: I think there is also bias against rural students (how many of my kids have any experience with the word “alley”? ) And certainly IQ tests given here tend to measure middle class American standards, black or white. The tests would look quite a bit different for those in other cultures where other expectations for success are the norm. However, here, this is what we use because success on these IQ tests frequently predicts success in other areas of life. Notice, not always predicts success. We all know of some folks with average IQs who are very successful, and many with high IQs that do not do well.

I applaud your encouragement of your students to strive, achieve, and be accountable. That works in ANY culture.

By SET

December 1, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this

V for Vanetta - Your earlier post rang a bell… Lower IQ culture tends to pair bond early - with dating, sex and pregnancy starting at puberty which is down as low as 8 years old for blacks who reach puberty first. Hispanics are next with Whites reaching puberty generally at 12 - with Asians going as late as 15.

Just try running an integrated school with pubescent sexually active 11 year olds sharing classrooms with pre-pubescent 14 year olds. even more interesting with Hispanic (and other) girls having adult male lovers while being 13 - with the parents knowledge and acceptance.

The puberty biodiversity problem is another physical issue that affects literacy rates and mortality rates among the races. The group with the earlier mating and childbearing is at a tremendous disadvantage against the groups with the later puberty in scholarship.

We can also - in Calif - tell you about what fun we have in classrooms when you have a section of the class biologically susceptable to substence dependence - Mexican Indians, Irish, whatever - and somebody exposes groups of children to beer and narcotics at puberty. While your Asian children may not be so disabled you are faced with some of the other ethnic kids thinking about getting high all day. Of course we are only talking about varied percentages of the different groups, not all of them.

But don’t come around with this nonsense that all people are created equal and they’d better test out the same on NCLB.

This is for you also Ms Thing. it’s not just IQ that CA teachers are staring in the face, it’s the ethnic puberty rates also and the behavior that goes with it. I suspect the teachers in GA just don’t realize what is coming when the benefits of diversity brought to you by George Bush & Co really land on you.

The only solution I see is for the large school districts to create self segregating high schools within the district and run them according to clearly posted standards the students and their families can opt in or out of. A take-no-prisoners academic school which would not be popular. A Vocational school for those who don’t want foreign language, advanced math and university entrance requirment classes taught, and Special Ed for those who need it where deportment can be enforced a’la Helen Keller and Sister Mary In-Your-Face.

By MC

December 1, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

“My father was a physician and nearly all of his patients were black. Guess what? We have physicians in the generation under me now. They don’t want to see lower class black patients. They have structured their practices to not have them around. They have lots of experience in training - especially cadaver work - with the ghetto. Now they are avoiding county hospitals, setting their offices well away from the ghetto - and not accepting “medicaid insurance”. Good for them.”

I think you’ve exposed your line of thinking well enough with this addendum, SET. Please tell me in your own words, though, why is the IQ different racial groups so important to you that you must almost exclusively post about that subject on this site.

By Ms. Thing

December 1, 2007 10:32 PM | Link to this

Catlady, I think I did misunderstand what you were trying to say. I appreciate your explanation. I also appeciate the concise way you explained what you meant, unlike a certain Californian poster who likes to talk about the many successful people in his family.

You were absolutely correct to point out the differences in subcultures. Many rural kids—black or white—do not get the chance to be exposed to other cultures. By the same token, there are urban kids that have not experienced anything outside of their environment. Each group would certainly not fare very well if they took tests based on unfamiliar cultures. I still say that research data can be biased or misleading, especially if a small tested sample is used to generalize a group. Thanks for your encouragement.

SET, for your information, I teach 4th grade. Based on the numerous conventional and grammatical errors that I have I found in your long-winded posts, you could benefit from taking one of my classes. In all of my posts, I asked simple questions. You never gave any simple answers. I teach my kids to answer questions directly and thoroughly.

I am glad that you come from a family of intellects. So? Your ancestors could have founded Jamestown in 1607 and built this “brave new world” called the United States. You could be the president of Harvard. Nevertheless, you are still a n——- in some people’s eyes when they see you. The sooner you accept that, the better off you will be. I forgot to ask: Isn’t your ethnicity the same as the lower IQ group? If you choose to answer, a simple “yes” or “no” will suffice.

One last thing, how can children control how their bodies develop or when puberty occurs in their bodies? LOL

By SET

December 2, 2007 1:45 AM | Link to this

Ms Thing… wonder why you would name yourself so. Interesting. Of course I’m black - you didn’t know? You are a 4th grade teacher. That fits. You have chosen an occupation where you have no intellectual work at all. You haven’t answered some of my other questions about your education. No need.

You’ve walked into the puberty issue I set out for you. Ethnics are different people - the IQ distributions are different as well as many other physical things. Average age of onset of puberty differs by race. The gap there seems to be widening - the reasons are still not clear. One thing for sure, early puberty is associated with shorter lifespans and lower educational attainment. It’s also associated with elevated death rates by trauma. Of course the kids don’t chose when they hit puberty. But the schools used to teach behavior & discipline and train students how to stay safe. That’s called teaching duty, values, morals and deportment not entitlement, victimhood and self esteem. Do you understand the special needs of the black students related to entering puberty years before other kids?

When school districts are trying how to guide their students - alive - through a high school diploma, the ethnic mix is as important a factor in planning as it is for police staffing in a city.

It’s late and I’m tired of having to explain the basics of US biodiversity issues to a 4th grade teacher who has managed to avoid all the basic sciences and stats on the subject in “college”. Look it up on the internet. Try Human Biodiversity as well as the term racial gap. “The Bell Curve” remains the best starting point but it is very dated now and there are numerous studies published on nuances of the problem since TBC was put out.

It doesn’t matter that you don’t like the research to date. You need to understand it to formulate your basis for saying it’s not so. Blind faith doesn’t cut it with me or anyone else over 9th grade.

One last thing. Chose your words and your battles more carefully. If you think your “friends” are with you - exactly who do you think has produced the hell on earth the current generation of primary school US Blacks are now facing? I know better than you do what is coming for these kids. Your childish comments about not liking me is beneath you as a public school teacher - think what you want to. When lives of your students and their families hang in the balance - and I’m talking about the 2am phone calls (never a good sign) - the persons you run to had best not be your “liberal” friends.

I’ve been asked why I like to inject race into the Education debates. I do so because whites are afraid to and it is the elephant in the room that no one wants to deal with. Our public schools - led by (supposedly well meaning) teachers such as you - are producing black dead men walking. Your public students are full of self esteem but can’t count, read, speak standard english, or function in Western Civilization. I’m tired of it. I am really tired of it.

By SET

December 2, 2007 2:32 AM | Link to this

MC: I’m a lawyer in CA and black defendants overwhelm the courts, jails and prisons. All the people I see are public school products. My family back to the 19th Century were teachers in segregated black schools - then integrated schools in the last half of the 20th Century. Currently no member of the generation beneath me is in teaching and the older teachers have all retired - with horror stories of what the public schools turned into after integration. I was a sub for a short time while post grad. Several family members since WWII have been physicians and the later generations still are. In CA race is very important to local and state politics. My generation went to Catholic and Public Schools. The later generation generally never goes to public schools even from 1st grade.

GA is different I suppose, but in CA things are going very badly for blacks with the middle class (and civil service) shrinking dramatically while Hispanics rise to power (example - dominating the powerful prison guard union). I believe - strongly - that the public school system has become failure factories for black kids, and that the decline is for all intents programmed to occur.

The heart of the deadly neglect is the refusal to face up to the issues the black students have and impose programs that will teach them to function in society and stay out of prison and the morgue. Fundamental to this is not mixing any students regardless of race in campuses and programs where they can’t fit in. This means no more one size fits all schools and sorting by ability and desire for a particular educational program.

Whites are happy to sit back and watch the chaos go on and never talk about racial gaps and how we manage them. Frankly at the rate the CA AIDS (and debilitating drug use) pandemic is moving, the current youngest generation of blacks largely won’t be here anyway.

So yes, I want policy debate to include why blacks are an endangered species and what is to be done to manage this. What our government is doing is replacing Blacks with 3rd worlders more to their liking.

In our state the cornrowed baggy pants blacks have just about been put out of every McDonalds, Jack In The Box & hotel maid job in the state. But Hispanics and Philipinos are working & packing the Jr College Voc Tech programs.

I picked a jury last week. 2 black jurors out of 75 called. One was kicked and only one, a civil servant sheriff’s office employee, got on the jury. That’s typical. Last jury had one black retired busdriver who became foreman (3 week trial, 1 and a half hr deliberation, lifetime term). That’s all. Most of our defendants are blacks (and these two defendants are black). Black jurors are swept out of the panels because of felony priors and no-work no-pay hardships. The black men largely don’t have driver’s licenses anymore - child support blocks, etc.

I see black products of the public schools unable to function in society all day long and I’m angry about it because when I went to public school everybody was trained better than this. So I complain.

IQ is an issue but IQ is not exclusively why blacks are having more problems in 2007 than in 1960. The IQ gap is the same. The problem is the utter lack of education and deportment training in the current public schools compared to the 1960 public schools - and welfare policy although there was welfare in 1960 also.

Maybe GA schools are better. Maybe this is just a CA thing.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

December 2, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

Did Rod Johnson and Ericka Davis get to Bonnie Pratt, the publisher of the Clayton Daily News? Now that the truth is coming out about the REAL unethical (and likely, in the case of Rod Johnson’s wife, illegal) actions, (and how Johnson and Davis have been negoiating with SACS “behind the scenes” for months to discredit board members who outed their actions) Bonnie Pratt has suddenly shut down the blogs attached to her paper. The first time it happened only certain posters were blocked from the Clayton Daily News forum. But now that NO ONE has posted favorably for Rod or Ericka, I guess Bonnie Pratt, for whatever political agenda she is trying to accomplish, has shut down the entire forum.

Seems like she was asleep the day they talked about the role of the press in a free society in journalism school.

By t williams

December 2, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

John Trotter

John Trotter

John Trotter

John Trotter

By Attn: Clayton Parents

December 2, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

t williams,

The test of your relevance on this blog (your ability to refute ANYTHING I’ve posted) has already been administered; twice in fact. You’ve failed; MISERABLY. While your REDRUM, REDRUM, REDRUM, REDRUM like posting of Dr. Trotter’s name might indicate you possess the pathology of stalker, it does NOT indicate you possess the intellectual acumen needed to contribute anything of value to this discussion.

Thus for you, class has been dismissed…wait out front for the short yellow bus to take you home to mommy.

By t williams

December 2, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

So, John Trotter advocates find it acceptable to use derogatory special education references when merely confronted with his name in bold? Touchy, touchy.

By t williams

December 2, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this

So, John Trotter advocates find it acceptable to use derogatory special education references when merely confronted with his name in bold? Touchy, touchy.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

December 2, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this

t williams,

Ahh…so now you’ve finally decided to come out and play. Sorry to offend you if it took a little “taunting” to roust you.

Now, care to respond to the challenge? I’ve laid out a case that REAL problem on the school board is Rod Johnson and that he called SACS in to merely deflect attention from his OWN wrong doings. (And doesn’t mind sinking the school system in a pathetic attempt to save himself from possible criminal charges)

Seems Rod Johnson is threatened by the presence of strong male on the board, one who has REPEATEDLY outed Johnson on his wrong doings.

After being “exposed” as it were, no wonder Johnson felt the need to call on extra “sacs” so as not to feel intimidated.

Again t williams, can you refute ANY part of the arugment I’ve made for the opinion that is Rod Johnson who MUST go?

I understand it might be difficult, since the evidence is mounting that he KNOWINGLY hired a child sexual predator as a system employee, but that wasn’t ANY doing of Dr. Trotter now was it?

The ball, as they say, is in your court.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

December 2, 2007 6:38 PM | Link to this

t williams,

To put it another way, would parents be more offended by a “politically incorrect” statement or by Rod Johnson KNOWINGLY hiring an accused CHILD SEXUAL PREDATOR to work in the school system?

Well?

By Ms. Thing

December 2, 2007 7:00 PM | Link to this

SET, you’re even more pathetic than I thought. You’re actually so pathetic that you’re quite comical. I didn’t answer questions about my education because you didn’t ask any. LOL Because you want to know, I have a master’s degree and will be pursuing a doctorate quite soon. Where did you get your JD? I shudder to think of any law school that lowered its standards to grant you one.

Also, there was never anything in my posts about not liking you. Outside of your posts, I don’t even know you. Apparently, you have me mixed up with another poster. Gosh, if you can’t even keep the facts straight on this blog, I feel really sorry for any person that you defend in a court of law. Wow!

It was quite hilarious that you made my profession—a 4th grade teacher—sound like it is one step above being a ditch-digger. I am quite proud of my profession. I don’t need to go into the teachers-impact-the-world speech because you apparently think that you got your alleged law degree without the aid of teachers. One thing though, do you have any clients at all? You seem to have a lot of time to be on this blog. Your rhetorical posts could fill up a library by themselves.

MC is right. You love to tell about all the so-called professionals in your family and genealogy. Who cares? My genealogy includes the first man and woman to be created, a murderer, a prostitute, kings (including the wisest that ever lived), and a certain Carpenter that is Lord of lords and King of kings.

Quite frankly, I have grown weary of trading barbs with you. I wish you much success. Really.

By SET

December 2, 2007 7:32 PM | Link to this

Ms. Thing. You are providing more enlightenment that you can guess. Tell us more about yourself. Just keep talking.

I am comparing you with my primary school teachers. You help me understand the difference between what happened to my generation and the current one.

By Sabrina

December 3, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

I started out with this blog when it seemed that its purpose was to find a solution to dealing with the disgustingly corrupt school board that is costing our children their future, but I really had to abandon this when it became a debate about the ability of the races to learn. The fact of the matter is that all children born healthy and without debilitating mental disorders are capable of learning no matter their race. IQ testing is not a testing of ability, but a testing of knowledge acquired from experience. Children test lower when they do not receive the nurturing from the parents that inspires them to learn in the first place. Their abilities atrophy from lack of stimulation. This argument is about nature versus nurture and is not appropriate for this blog. I want to know how to get some honest, hard-working officials that I can hold accountable for the direction of my children’s education!

By Clayton County Parent

December 7, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this

I have been attending the BOE meetings for a long time and know that the problem is political. None of the board members are thinking of the children. Now that SACS is back to remove our accreditation, we are trying to determine who is to blame. What we need to be concentrating on is who is going to get us out of this mess? You can say what you want about Dr. Pulliam but she got us out of this mess the first time. Will we be able to hire a someone to get us out of mess this time?
FACTS - John Trotter wants to control the school board so that he can get a job with the school system, to be able to secure a reasonable retirement. Per Haynes at the Nov board meeting. Rod Johnson has opened a can of worms for the board and no one, I mean no one will come out clean on this. Everyone on that board has secrets that everyone on the board knows about. It will be very interesting, and in the end the children will lose because of adults acting a fool. Dr. Duncan is not qualified to lead this school system. How can a principal with one of the lowest graduation rates in the metro area lead this system into success? The last community forum at MMHS was a joke! It was staged to make her look good on tape. Will we be able to get someone who can lead this system? With this board, i seriously doubt it. Teachers and administrators have been told that they can teach anyway they want to and they do not have to pay attention or listen to the parents.

To those of you that feel Henry and Fayette counties are better - be warned - these counties have the same issues that we do. Fayette and Henry have large white and black gang issues. But just like Clayton did 15 years ago, they are not addressing them.

By t williams

December 8, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this

Clayton County Civil Case Inquiry

The following are case numbers dealing with Norreese Haynes and his money problems:

2005CM10171 LW 2006CM09370 DW (pending) 1998CM05246 P 2005CM12514 GC 2002CM09368 P 2002CM16308 P

No wonder he billed the school system $500 for a fax he could have gotten at Office Max for less than $99. Does the fax write and send the documents on it’s own, or does John Trotter write them for his puppet to send?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Hmmm.

John Trotter

John Trotter

John Trotter