Get Schooled

By jim d

October 31, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

Reform school!

By JustMe

October 31, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

I know that I beat the same drum here, but….

Today’s parents are far different from past generations. In the past, there was usually only one wage earner. In the past, there were mostly two parents in the home. In the past, the one wage earner usually held only one job. In the past, parents quickly disciplined the children. In the past, parents taught their children to respect authority. In the past, children rarely wasted time on “past times” such as video games, talking on the phone, ipods, etc. In the past, children were required to do chores around the house and held other responsibilities.

Rarely do today’s households look like the past.

This reflects in the classroom and the result is the mentioned situation where children feel enabled to over react to adults. In my day, had I even mentioned the thought of throwing a piece of paper at a teacher my Mom would have beaten me near death.

Children today not only don’t understand how to behave, they don’t understand the consequences of their actions. IMHO, this is the entire fault of the parents. Most parents do not want the school to discipline their child, yet they don’t discipline them either. So then, how does the child ever learn to behave?

We have a large percentage of this generation that are far beyond the ‘me’ generation. They are the ‘me and only me and to heck with you’ generation. Empathy is a word lost to them.

By HS Teacher Too

October 31, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this

Bridget,

A big part of the problem is that the schools are just too big, and no matter what kind of kids are present, regardless of background, when schools are as big as they are it is inevitable that students will feel alienated, unreached, and lost.

That being said, it is not surprising to me at all that students at affluent schools are disaffected — or more correctly, manifest their “lost-ness” in the ways that they do, and more dramatically than lesser-situated students. They affluent kids have the resources, they’ve been more coddled, and they have the time to say, “woe is me, look at me.” You might argue they were raised to be a little more self-absorbed. They’re not out there raising their siblings or working two jobs at age 16. They’ve had their self-esteem stroked and suddenly their world isn’t as rosy as they were promised — and they came to expect and feel entitled to. And their plots to harm and get attention are exactly that — cries for attention.

Similarly, I wonder what the suicide rates are if we were to compare affluent kids to lesser-situated kids. My money would say that there is a higher incidence of suicide with the affluent kids.

By tb

October 31, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

Man oh man— I am so glad to see this topic

WHEN ARE WE GOING to really address bullying in public schools——-

If anyone looks at these big shoot em up cases— the information shows bullying played an intrecal part in the whole problem.

Bullying prevention programs in the schools is needed. The progressive schools already have this- and their violence rate, assuaults is down, down, down.

Kids are coming from problematic environments, schools are crowded and too big, teachers that really don’t care and administration not paying attention.

YOU CAN’T BLAME ONE GROUP FOR THE PROBLEM, therefore in each community school violence must be brought to the forefront and addressed.

Did you guys know we have GANGS in schools in north metro georgia — too? When in hell are going to clean that up.

Even as far south as Jessup, GA= there are gangs and administrators who have NO BACKBONE. and nobody is addressing it. The bullies Rule in Georgia schools.

Assaults from age 13 on up need to be reported to police and get these kids in juvenile justice.. AND for those that don’t like juvie —- go and have mom and dad revamp juvenile law. But until then that’s all we got.

BTW— Representative Carolyn Hugley is working on legislation to more effectively address bullying and school violence.

I hope school administrators are also paying attention to court decisions made regarding School Administrators overlooking bullying.

They can be held liable.

By Stacey

October 31, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

Wow, JustMe…I actually agree with you on this one! :-) Actually, I agree with everyone so far. I’m 37 and I have a 32 year old brother. The division seems to be somewhere in that five year age gap as it seems that the majority of those his age and younger of are the “entitlement generation”. Growing up I just thought he was just a spoiled brat because he was the baby and the only boy, but I have since noticed it in coworkers, in-laws, etc. I seriously think that may be when it became illegal to “beat” your kids. What my sisters and I considered mild discipline would have landed my mother in prison for years these days.

As far as affluent kids are concerned, I grew up in a small town where all socio-economic groups went to school together. As I can remember, the “poorer” kids (my group) may have been a nuisance to each other but not to adults at all. The affluent kids were the ones who talked back to the teachers and administrators. The affluent parents were also the ones likely to try to “bully” the administrators into changing grades and things like that since they were the financial backers of the Booster Club. Where I’m from, high school football is king and if you weren’t a football star, you were a second class citizen…an you knew it.

By jim d

October 31, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

JM,

You forgot to mention in “past times” teachers were actually encouraged to “teach” and were given whatever authority was needed to accomplish this feat.

In “past times” schools housed a few hundred kids, where today they hold thousands.

And in “past times” if a 16 year old didn’t want to be in school they were encouraged to get a damn job, not stick around and make everyone elses lives miserable.

By tb

October 31, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this

Hey stacy-

The grade integrity act prevents changing of grades by adminstrators or parents— don’t know how effectively it is enforced as it was just passed.

Oh, and football still is king— ATHLETES bring money into the schools and they are allowed to run many schools across GA.

REgardless of that fact— its time to stop this across GA-, hold schools accountable when there is chronic and abusive bullying during school hours and have adminstrators feel the heat from concerned citizens in teh community.

Enough is enough.

By jim d

October 31, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

Oh, and JM,

May we to gather that when you say parents and children above that you are using a very large brush to paint them and that you really mean many or most?

By JJ

October 31, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this

Trust me, in my house, there is disclipine and plenty of it. If my daughter messes up, she knows there are consequences.

My father gave me the greatest advise when I first had my child. He said “Do not let her control you”. I am so glad he said that to me.

Parents today, want to be their kids’ friends. Not me. I prefer adults, and do not care to run with a bunch of 16 year olds…been there done that.

At the moment, my daugher has messed up very badly in school, by allowing her normal A’s & B’S to slip down to F’s. I have taken away her cell phone (and cut text messaging off completely), took the tv out of her room and I took the computer apart and put it in my closet, (I hate the darn things). Until her grades get back up where they are supposed to be, she will only be allowed out of the house to go to work. I know she goes to work, because I drive her and pick her up, and yes I spy on her too. As long as she is riding on my dime, I will check up on her. I am not afraid of her, she is afraid of ME.

I don’t care if she gets mad at me. I am here to make sure she is a productive member of society by the time I turn her loose. She knows that there are consequences to her behavior.

It’s called Parenting!!!!!

By SHANE

October 31, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

This has nothing to do with the schools - or any schools for that matter. This is simply a matter or poor parenting, which seems to be at epidemics levels over the past 20-30 years.

People, stop having kids if you can’t take care of them! I’m sick of dealing with all these wastes of life hanging around and screwing it up for the rest of us.

By high school teacher

October 31, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this

HS Teacher Too,

Ditto.

Anyone know the rate of teenage drug use and alcohol abuse in Georgia’s wealthiest county?

By jim d

October 31, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this

Shane,

That being a given, how bout helping me figure out how a couple of non-parents could produce an off-spring that actually amounted to something.

Got an explanation?

By SouthFultonTeacher

October 31, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this

&&JJ** AMEN!!!!!!

It is so ridiculous that kids are controlling their parents. I teach in south Fulton, and yes, we have gangs, but we also have great kids with well educated parents. But… you never hear about them. OKay, back to the subject at hand….

Too many parents won’t control their kids. While in college I worked at a child care center in an affluent area in Dekalb. When I told a parent about her son’s misbehavior, her response was, well what do you want me to do?! Are you kidding? It doesn’t matter that a school has extremely high test scores. So did my Buckhead school. But the rich kids did more drugs than the middle class or poor kids, and then they drove off in their BMW or Porsche! They were 10 times as disrespectful as the rest of us, because their parents would bully the administration. Their test scores were higher because their parents could afford the resources to get them there. Just as my kids have extremely high test scores because I know what it takes to be a successful student, and I don’t accept any less from my kids. My daughter has also lost her cell phone due to two C’s she got because she failed to turn in assignments in both classes. I expect her to work hard, a C earned from hard work is okay, a C received from failing to complete assignments means you’ve lost your priviledges!

Let’s get back to parenting. Young, old, rich, poor, we all need to do right by our kids or these incidents will continue to occur.

By JJ

October 31, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

By bowing down to your kids, givnig them EVERYTHING they want, and wanting to be their friends, you are not preparing them for the real world. You are setting them up for failure. You are not teaching them to EARN anything. They just expect you to GIVE it to them…..and because you give it to them, they will want more.

My daughter has to earn her privileges. Also taken away, I forgot to mention earlier, is her privilege to drive MY vehicle. While her grades are down she is not allowed to drive. She only has her learner’s now, but if the grades don’t come up, she will not get her license anytime soon.

Parents - quit being afraid of your kids. You are raising failures.

By HS Teacher Too

October 31, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

SouthFultonTeacher, I agree. I think I may have shared this story before, but a few years back I had a student who COULD not stay awake in class. No matter what. So of course I called Mom. She told me that after wrestling practice, her son was awake and would stay up all night and watch tv, and she was afraid he’d become noctural. She was sorry, she couldn’t do anything about it.

!?!?!?!!!!!!

Anyway, the issue does come down to parenting as we all seem to agree: but as to the question of why the affluent kids and not just kids across all socio-economic classes, I maintain it’s because they have the time, the resources, and have the worst case of “me, me, me” compared to the socio-economic classes. Quite simply, poorer kids just don’t have time to lament life’s wrongs the way upper-middle class kids do!

By Pen

October 31, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

Yep, it all boils down to the lack of parenting today. It amazes me daily what I see parents allowing their children to do. Because of these types of parents the children of good parenst are the ones suffering. I would never claim that my kids are perfect however, I do know what they are doing and where they are going and they certainly not only know how to behave but that there will always be consequences when they break the rules. When I see the way kids are today it just makes me sick!

By HS Teacher Too

October 31, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

oops, I meant nocturnal.

By jim d

October 31, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

Yep,

it is our fault alright. All of us are in some way tied to the causes of today’s Disaffected Youth. I’d say with but 1 possible exception on this blog that we are all somewhat responsible.

For some of us older folks—we were the Disaffected Youth of yesteryear. Yet others (Younger) are the direct off spring of the Disaffected Youth of yesteryear. What has become of todays youth is directly associated with what we baby-boomers and our children have done.

So if you are unhappy with what you see, quit pointing fingers at each other.Just look in a mirror. Then let’s stop b itchin about it and go about fixin what we f’d up and not leave it up to the next generation to fix.

By high school teacher

October 31, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

but as to the question of why the affluent kids and not just kids across all socio-economic classes, I maintain it’s because they have the time, the resources, and have the worst case of “me, me, me” compared to the socio-economic classes

Affluent kids are emotionally neglected. Their parents are too busy to spend time with them, so they shower them with money and cars. I had a student many years ago who saw her dad on the weekends. His job was actually in New York, so he had an apartment there while his wife and children were here. To compensate, she got a nice shiny brand new car for her 16th birthday. Another student received $100 each week for gas money, food, and entertainment, but his parents were too involved in their own lives to spend real time with him. I’d be willing to bet many of those kids would trade their half-million dollar homes for family mealtime.

By hahaha

October 31, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

JJ, boy do you change your hats when blogging or what? On the momania blogs you always play the character of being your daughters best friend, you two only have each other, blah, blah blah. You even sat home one halloween crying because she wanted to go out with her friends instead of you. And if you hate computers so much, why are you on here ALL day commenting everywhere? I’m really not attacking you personally but your stories are so contradicting. From reading the mom blog, it sounds like your daughter runs the household. You really need to find a man and get your own life. Maybe her grades are going down because she’s momified.

By andrea

October 31, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

I also teach, and just this morning I was talking to another teacher who called a parent about her child’s behavior last night and got cussed out and hung up on. Between the cuss words, the parent asked her how she expected a 13 year-old to behave? This teacher was calling to tell her that her child threw a nail across the room and hit another child.

By ironmaiden

October 31, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

Sometimes it’s not just the parental failure to establish and enforce boundaries. There is tremendous peer pressure which is consequently used to guilt-trip parents. Those affluent, emotionally neglected peers are the heroes. Parents don’t seem to gather the admiration anymore. When we caught our son smoking pot, he was outraged by our punishments. He declared that a lot of his friends’ parents smoked pot with them. Uh, need a reality check. Unfortunately, many of this generation feel the work hard/be responsible mentality is for losers. I still believe in Karma!

By Julie

October 31, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

Most of this goes back to the parents: Many of the school shooters got their guns from the home, or from family members. In some instances, guns were given to the children by their parents. I definitely believe in gun control…parents controlling guns in the home. We can argue until the cows come home over adults owning guns, but maybe there would’ve been far fewer shootings and far fewer deaths if parents did not own guns in the first place. Sure, they have a right. So do I. In our home, where we have a teen son, we have made the decision to not own guns. Period. If we decide to do so when our son is grown and on his own, fine. And the parents who purchase guns for their children should be held accountable when the kids use their guns for shooting people.

The school culture needs to change. I see too much bullying being ignored. I see too much disrespect of kids going on. I don’t see proper training of what to do in the event of a student school shooter. I don’t see schools telling kids to report it to a grown up if a kid makes threats. Probably because they feel that they won’t be taken seriously. Most school shooters told other kids what they were going to do, they talked about it. Someone better start listening to kids before it’s too late. http://www.StopRAtoday.com

By Teacher, Too

October 31, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

Love this topic. When my boyfriend’s daughter was failing and almost didn’t graduate, did he take away her cell phone and/or her car? Oh no, she was a senior. He couldn’t possible do that to her. She would be embarrassed; her senior year would be ruined. SO WHAT!!

I see parents of all economic levels doing the same exact thing. I have kids that don’t have school supplies and are on free/reduced lunch, but guess what they do have? Cell phones, Ipods, and a host of other “must-haves”.

Parents- learn how to say NO, don’t be afraid to take stuff away (kudos to those that do!), and follow thru - if you say it, mean it!

I am so lucky to have had parents who did those things. We were very middle class, maybe upper middle class (I wouldn’t know- I wasn’t given everything I wanted). However, I did learn the value of working hard and reaping the rewards of hard work!

By DB

October 31, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

I see kids today being the direct result of some rather significant societal changes over the last 30 years.

• The prevalence of divorce and lack of strong family units undercuts a significant source of support for raising children. We don’t live near our children’s grandparents, and it’s increasingly rare for a child to have a network of adults and family to grow up in. They are pretty much stuck with their parents.

• The “Me Generation” are too self-absorbed in themselves to make any significant changes in order to sacrifice for their child — they tell themselves that they are only DOING it for their child, as if any child needs a $800,000 home and a BMW on their 16th birthday.

• Moms working outside the home. OK, blast me for this, but it was MUCH easier for a family to keep tabs on their children’s activities when mom (or dad, hey, I don’t care WHICH) was at home when the kids got home from school, to cook a family dinner and to enforce homework.

• Modes of communication these days are becoming increasing impersonal, leading to additional isolation. They THINK that because they have 400 names on their Facebook, they have a “social network.” Texting and IMming has taken the place of face-to-face or even phone conversations and substituted real communication with some sort of weird shorthand that lacks depth and fails to foster true interpersonal communication.

• Parents who think that getting their kids to like them is the same as getting them to respect them.

• Society sends kids SO many conflicting messages, and basically has little respect for childhood. Childhood is something that Fisher-Price owns — anything past that seems to be “hurry up and grow up”, with sleazy fashions, sexualized marketing and an almost weird expectation that kids engage in superficial sexual acts.

• The increase in unmarried women having and keeping their babies. Again, lack of family structure as a result of lack of commitment.

• Failure to provide a religious background. Blast me for this one, too, but please note that I did NOT specify WHICH religion. Kids who receive regular religious training grow up with a set of values that allow them to see their place in the world a bit more realistically.

Anyway, JMHO.

By t

October 31, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this

Start thinking of teacher bullies…..I see this a lot in schools.

By HS Teacher Too

October 31, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

t, you can’t tease us like that. Please elaborate! Thanks!

By HB

October 31, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this

“The prevalence of divorce and lack of strong family units”

Having grown up a child of divorce, I’d just like to add here it’s not so much the prevalence of the divorce, but the prevalence of bad divorces that are hurting children. By that I mean divorces where one parent is largely absent from the children’s lives, where both parents are present but don’t work to parent together presenting a united front on discipline and values even after they’ve split, or perhaps worst of all, those where parents iey for children’s affection by trying to out-do each other in gifts, fun, and lack of discipline. I firmly believe, though, that a good divorce, with both parents active in children’s lives and working together to set down rules and teach values, can be a better situation for kids than a bad marriage/stressful household.

By PJ

October 31, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this

What is it they say? Teachers are afraid of the principals. Principals are afraid of the school board. The school board is afraid of parents. And the parents are afraid of their children.

By Ernest

October 31, 2007 6:59 PM | Link to this

HST2:

At 12:29, you said, A big part of the problem is that the schools are just too big, and no matter what kind of kids are present, regardless of background, when schools are as big as they are it is inevitable that students will feel alienated, unreached, and lost. You may have a point but most citizens don’t want to pay the costs to have smaller schools. I look at City of Decatur schools, those residents pay a LOT in property taxes (compared to others in the county) and pretty much have the type of school system they want.

By catlady

October 31, 2007 7:40 PM | Link to this

This has been going on for quite a while. I recall having the parent OF A FIVE YEAR OLD tell me her daughter “wouldn’t” ride the bus home, “wouldn’t” keep her hair pinned out of her eyes! Now, this was a five year old who was in charge. I strongly suggested to mom that she NOT come pick her daughter up if she wanted her to ride the school bus, and that she cut the child’s hair short if she “wouldn’t” wear hair bows and keep it out of her eyes. The child is now 27, and still is having trouble dealing with the idea that the world does not care what she wants! (cannot hold a job,etc.).

That was a pretty isolated incident back then, but it is waaayy par for the course now. I have one student, being raised by his grandparents, whose granddad is a police officer and they “can’t” get him to mind.

If a parent cannot do anything with their child (other than give in) how the blah blah do you think teachers can?

I fear for us.

By catlady

October 31, 2007 7:46 PM | Link to this

HS2 and Ernest, you are right. The data (here I am citing from NELS 88, a national, longitudinal study by the federal doe) indicate that small size is important for poor, rural, and low achieving students to achieve, stay in school and graduate. It is important for middle class and wealthy kids in terms of feeling “lost” or “fitting in”, which impacts their graduation rates, drug use, and violence levels. (Large) school size can also have an impact on teen pregnancy and general delinquent behavior.

We really shoot ourselves in the foot by “saving money” cramming all these kids into these mega-schools.

By Julie

October 31, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this

Teacher, too wrote: “Parents- learn how to say NO, don’t be afraid to take stuff away (kudos to those that do!), and follow thru - if you say it, mean it!”

I agree 100 percent! That’s why I have a website with the tagline “Love your kids enough to NO them”! http://www.AskMeanMom.com

By Lee

October 31, 2007 8:40 PM | Link to this

I see it didn’t take Justme long to begin her usual diatribe against parents. Typical…

Nevermind about that pesky little fact that the schools have sole care and custody of the student from 7:30am to 3:30pm and are in control of everything that goes on within the confines of the school during this time. The schools also determine which textbooks and other resources to buy and are solely in charge of hiring personnel.

Schools get away with providing an inferior education because most parents have no idea of what a good school should look like. They only know that they get called to school about every six weeks to sit through some ceremony where 3/4 of the student body gets some kind of award. They then go out and slap a “My child is an honor student at XYZ elementary” on their car and they pat themselves on the back for having such good kids.

Reality hits a few years later when their straight A’s for twelve years of school child goes to college and gets their first D on a test because they never had to learn how to study.

The biggest mistake parents of today make is that they accept the bullcrap that schools feed them.

Sorta like when that used car saleman tells them that a little ‘ol lady only drove this car to church.

“Oh, really”…..

By JustMe

October 31, 2007 8:42 PM | Link to this

True story…

Child comes to school late every day. Child says it’s because he over sleeps.

I meet with parents. The father whines that he has taken the child to ‘sleep experts’ that tell him the child’s sleep cycle is off. The father complains that the child won’t go to bed until way after midnight. The father says that all the child does at night is watch TV and stay on the internet. The father states that he has taken the child to the ‘sleep experts’ and that is all he can do.

Give me a break. As a teacher I really had to bite my tongue. I wanted to tell the father to take away the computer. I wanted to tell the father to take away the TV. I wanted to tell the father to throw a bucket of ice water on the child in the morning if they didn’t get out of bed. I wanted to remind the father that he was the parent and was to make decisions in his house. Had I said any of those things, I am sure that I would have gotten into trouble.

The child is still late for school every day (and is failing because they miss so much of each day’s lesson). Of course, the failure grade MUST be my fault - the fault of the teacher.

By MJ

October 31, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this

The thing is, this could happened any where, but if it had happened in another county, we would be talking about it in a different way. The county and the schools would have been dragged through the mud.

By HS Teacher Too

October 31, 2007 9:08 PM | Link to this

Ernest, I suppose you are right. I know that I, for one, would trade higher taxes for smaller schools ANY day of the week — but I fear I am in the minority. I wish in some abstract way that the choice would be made for us. I mean, someone made the decision to consolidate schools and make them as big as they are, right? So surely a new “someone” can decide that we need to break the schools down again, right?

Sigh

If only I ruled the world! hah hah

By Tony

October 31, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this

During a summer institute a few years ago I met someone who taught in one of the wealthiest schools in the state. He referred to his school as a ghetto of the rich. It is sad that our values as a society have deteriorated so much. For many people, life has become “all about me.”

This is reflected throughout our nation in everyone’s efforts to have more stuff. We want everything and for the cheapest price. Talk about bullying, the US government has practically codified bullying as a way to manipulate other countries.

This same type of greed and narcissism is what led to the downfall of the Roman Empire. It’s looking like the downfall of the United States of America will soon to occur. Unless we all examine our greedy ways, there is not much hope for our next generation to fare better.

By high school teacher

October 31, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

Julie, love the name of your website! When my 6-year-old gets upset with me and my “horrible demands” to clean his room, he says that I am mean. Rather than punish him for that, I tell him that he is right, and that “MOM” stands for “Mean Ol’ Mama!”

By asudst1992

November 1, 2007 6:23 AM | Link to this

Bully teachers: those teachers (female or male) who intimidate students by getting into their personal space; callng them names; following them down the hallway harrassing them; talking about them aloud to other adults; lying about incidents when they get before administrators; often using profanity, then denying it…OH YES, WE HAVE TEACHER BULLIES. They are hated and sometimes targeted.

By Julie

November 1, 2007 6:25 AM | Link to this

To High School Teacher:

Ask Mean Mom came about because I “say what I mean, and mean what I say”! A lot of my son’s friends think that I am mean, and they’re right. So that’s how I came to call my website AskMeanMom! Julie http://www.AskMeanMom.com

By Kevin

November 1, 2007 7:42 AM | Link to this

There is an undercurrent within our schools that disrptive behavior and to some extent violence is the norm.

Sadly bullying is the base for much of this to grow and grow. Both on the part of students, teachers and Parents.

2/3 of our school shootings ahve had a bullying component. Since Columbine few schools have changed what the do about bullying because they do not see the long term affects of it.

There is enough blame and only by creating strong community teams of EVERYONE involved: Parents, teachers, students, Police and ciommunity members can we begin to chnage the culture and that is what we need to do. Change an entire culture and that is a daunting task.

If you really want to know how bad bullying is form parents who know, seven families ( of which I am one) ahve contributed our stories of loosing children connected to school bullying and violence.

www.bullycide.org

I am now working with local schools and state agencies on new anti-bullying methods. Recently we developed an anti-bullying curriculum for police officers and over 130 showed up and stayed for a 8 hr training session. Because they know what it can lead to.

To those in the trenches, keep up the good work. If I can speak out on this after loosing a child you can speak out to prevent loosing a child.

By Lee

November 1, 2007 8:08 AM | Link to this

Regarding bullying…

I would venture to say that most (not all, but most) of your bullies are well known to faculty and staff. They are the troublemakers (behavior disorders for you politically correct folks) that make a teacher’s life a living he11. Years ago, schools would either a) paddle them into line, b) send them to reform school, or c) expel them. Today’s schools do none of the above.

My wife teachers elementary school. This year, she has a six-year-old psychopath. He disrupts her class, he hits and bites other students, he threatens other students and even my wife. So far this year, I think she has written about 10 pink slips on this kid and sent him to the office about 20+ times. Sometimes the principal paddles him. Sometimes they send him home. Sometimes they keep him in the office for a few hours and then send him back to class.

This kid has issues that go beyond poor parenting. I don’t know if he is a drug baby, or perhaps his daddy is also his 1st cousin - who knows.

Bottom line, this kid needs help and needs it bad. But, the school can’t do anything until they go through all the red tape.

Meanwhile, the other 20 kids in the class are denied quality instruction for 1-2 hours everyday.

That is the state of public schools today.

By WFC

November 1, 2007 8:31 AM | Link to this

Retired veteran of 31 years as a high school teacher and administrator and currently father to a high school junior. Good parenting is the consistent accumulation of “little things” that add up to “big deals.” Number one on my list of parenting tips: make sure that your child KNOWS that you are PAYING ATTENTION! Each morning on our drive to school I ask him to preview what is coming up in each class. Each afternoon on our drive home I ask him what actually happened in each class. Takes a total of 20 minutes. He resisted at first but this has now become a pleasant routine. It reminds him that I’m paying attention AND makes him think critically about his learning. Little thing that makes a difference.

By Tony

November 1, 2007 8:33 AM | Link to this

Lee, The red tape of which you speak has been imposed upon us because of litigation. The idea of “due process” for the one child is apparently more important than the education and safety of the other 20. This is not imposed because of educators choices! It has been imposed by non-educator judges applying their interpretations of the Constitution of the United States. These kinds of interpretations reinforce the narcisitic motives becoming more prevalent in our society.

By Jeff

November 1, 2007 9:04 AM | Link to this

Regarding bullying:

1) It is going to happen no matter what schools (and parents, for that matter) do. It was present in the “good ol’ days” and it is present now. This leads to my next point:

2) Since bullying WILL happen, the best thing to do is to teach kids how to deal with it. There are several schools of thought on this one, but here is my own three pronged strategy: First, try to ignore it. Say nothing to the bully at all, and try to stay away from him/ her as much as possible. Second, walk away. While this is in part an action of the first step, it merits a mention in its own right, particularly when the bully is becoming physically abusive. (Anything from flicking paper at you to out-right punching you.) As a matter of course within these first two steps, you should do all you can - without coming across as a whiner - to get someone in authority to try to stop the bully. Third, and only as a LAST resort: Put the bully on the ground, HARD. Make sure he knows you are not a person to be messed with. If this results in a couple days in ISS, but when you come back the bullying has stopped, the ISS was worth it. However, it is to be stressed again that this is an option only after ALL other options have been exhausted. Note that when putting the bully down, no weapons are to be used and it should only occur once the bully has physically struck you first. Then, again, if ALL other options have been exhausted, using any move you can implement with only your empty hands and feet, put him down as HARD as you possibly can.

By Lee

November 1, 2007 9:06 AM | Link to this

Tony, re “It has been imposed by non-educator judges applying their interpretations of the Constitution of the United States.”

Which is why I say that Brown vs. Board was the beginning of the end for the public school system in America. With that one decision, the federal government began “federalizing” the public school system and wrested control away from the locals. Once the federal government learned that parents, school boards, and governors were powerless to stop them, they initiated a never ending campaign against our children.

By KSU GRAD

November 1, 2007 9:28 AM | Link to this

Most of the time students who bully are the most disaffected youth of all. what they need is someone to pull them aside and listen to them, maybe, you know, give them a heartfelt hug and a cupcake or something. this would probably stop them from bullying and end the whole bullying cycle. it seems veteren teacher’s only try to silence their students instead of reaching out to them and meeting their emotional needs and stuff. I try and be friendly with my students that way they will discuss their problams and not get all built up with rage and stuff like that. oh, well, hope this helps.

By Jeff

November 1, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

KSU GRAD:

Yep, you’ve been fully indoctrinated. Congratulations.

My only hope is that you come to your senses soon before all hope is truly lost for both you and your students.

By jim d

November 1, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

Moving right along, Y’all seem to be overlooking the obvious.

Bullying is the parents fault!!

By Old School

November 1, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this

“it seems veteren teacher’s only try to silence their students instead of reaching out to them and meeting their emotional needs and stuff.”

Oh my goodness! Does this scare anyone besides me? KSU Grad, please go back and read your posts. Better yet, type them in Word and get them proofed before posting them. Try to avoid ending so many sentences with “…and stuff.” Say what you mean. If you are trying to refer to teachers in the plural, don’t use an apostrophe. That makes it possessive.

Brush up on your spelling and good luck explaining those “hugs” to the parents who take offense.

Good luck, A VETERAN teacher

By luvs2teach

November 1, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this

jim d and Lee - devil’s advocate question:

In the case of Lee’s wife’s “challenging” student…is it her fault that the child is a behavior problem and that it disrupts the learning of the other children? Isn’t it poor classroom or management?

Or…maybe…might it be…that particular set of parents’ fault?

Please, just once, say it’s not ALL the teacher’s fault, and we’ll concede and say it’s not always the parents’.

We can all always blame the administrators and our sue-happy society though, LOL.

Truce?

By 31 years teaching

November 1, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

KSU grad: I am hoping against hope that you are not actually in a classroom. If you really are interested in being a good teacher you need to observe those veteran teachers instead of criticizing. You truly are so far off the mark. For heaven’s sake, learn to spell, use grammar correctly and stop writing like an 8th grader. And stuff??? Define “stuff”. I’d also suggest leave the hugs behind. Hopefully you don’t teach above the 1st grade. You may find yourself in hot water with physical contact.

I have mentored many, many new teachers. Believe me, you all have a lot to learn from veteran teachers. (Note the spelling of veteran.) As one who has worked with “at-risk” kids for years and years, I can tell you in no uncertain terms, hugs and cupcakes are not a panacea to the baggage they carry to school. Watch and learn; you have a long way to go.

By Tony

November 1, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

KSU grad - in addition to respecting the experienced teachers and learning to spell, please do not think that being friendly is the key to understanding bullies. Respecting students is much different from being friends.

By Indy

November 1, 2007 11:39 PM | Link to this

If only in loco parentis meant that we teachers could be as crazy as parents. Sadly, it means that we get to act in the place of parents with all the extras that go with it.

As such, however, that means that if things go well, we will sometimes get the chance to teach a student who will learn. I’ve met a few, thankfully.

I’ll not cast total blame for a student’s actions on either parents or teachers. Neither will I absolve them. As a teacher I am at least a tiny bit responsible for the people that my students will become. The students are also certainly responsible for the people they become, even if they choose poorly.

The main thing is to connect with the students that you can connect with. Befriend the students who will let you. For some students the “loco” parents — the teachers — are the best parents they know. I don’t know what to do about it, but there it is. That’s the hand we’ve been dealt. The question is how do we play it? If there is a student in class whose best parent is a teacher he sees only an hour a day, how do we deal with that? I do wish I knew.

By SET

November 2, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this

Students with acute mental illness and conduct disorders should be spotted, referred for evaluation, and removed from the normal schools. End of problem.

KSU’s comment about hugging them sounds like somebody who is out of her league. I will agree on one thing, the disaffected are often bored, in need of constant stimulation. Take a look at the criteria for diagnosis as a psychopath… Hugging them isn’t what they are here for. Sex, maybe.

The schools have a duty of care to the kids to keep predatory & feral kids away from the herd. Those people have institutions to go to, send them there.

By Jim D

November 2, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

Hey L2T,

I’m here to tell you this one really is the fault of parents. Bullying in no way can be pinned on a teacher.

Hey, I’m agreeing for a change that teachers have no hand in this one. It is strictly and 100% upbringing.

Well that is unless the teacher is also the parent of the bully.

By luvs2teach

November 2, 2007 6:10 PM | Link to this

LOL, jim d - Have a good weekend!