Get Schooled

By Leen

October 23, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

I got an email yesterday from our local high school in response to the AJC publishing a report that one of our students was treated for MRSA. It said that they were taking extra precautions to sanitize the school and athletic facilities. My football playing son told me the staff frequently reminds them of what the symptoms are. However, he said the personal equipment (pads, helmets, etc) has not been sanitized since the season started, which concerns me. This isn’t new, there have been outbreaks at our school last year and the year before. The affected players were not allowed to play or practice until cleared by a doctor. When I look at all the cuts and bruises on my son by the end of a game, it does worry me.

By HS Teacher Too

October 23, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

I don’t know the answer to this question. What I do know is that I am vigilant about keeping MY classroom as clean as possible. I use ordinary windex or clorox spray on the desks every Friday (or more frequently if the kids are all sick), and also spray down the common tools — the staplers, the hole-puncher, etc. I’ll lay out the class set of rulers and spray all of them down if we’ve been using them, and so forth. I even spray down the phone in the teachers’ room because it is a nasty, vile thing that I think only gets cleaned when I do it!

Quite frankly, there is only so much a school can do and it’s up to the individual teachers maintaining their little areas to help. The kids don’t spend that much time in the common areas; they spend it in individual classrooms, and the custodial staff just doesn’t have the manpower or time to clean every desk every day. (whether you agree with that is another debate; it’s just today’s reality.)

One of the things that concerns me, however, is that these super-bugs are created at least in part by our over-use of anti-bacterial everything, right? They have essentially become resistant to the means we used to use to kill them. So it seems that in some ways, aren’t we contributing to the problem by using antibacterial disinfectants, soaps, etc., instead of just using regular soap and water?

I am not well-versed in the science enough to know what more can be done besides maintaining generally CLEAN facilities.

By SET

October 23, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

Over the years I have had public health/disease control issues to handle. I can say that the public doesn’t begin to “get it” about how dangerous infectous disease is nowadays and how the government is indifferent to the spread of all infectous disease.

IDC is generally a county issue. IDC is in my experience run by women and as if that’s not bad enough, by women with social worker education, background and training (regardless of medical qualification). This means your government will maybe beg people to try to do right, and nothing more.

I don’t mince words (as you may have noticed). IDC is a law enforcement function in my book, not social work. Making people clean the hot tubs, test and treat the swimming pools, clean the gang showers, take their TB/whatever medicines, observe quarrantine, make the Drs and clinics do their required reports, etc etc is not social work.

If you are not willing to arrest people, humiliate people, confront people, lecture people, close facilities and have occupational licenses suspended you are not going to get control of Infectous Disease. - And I’m just talking about managing the Drs, Hospitals, Nurses and public facility owner/operators - not the patients (We need combat trained PHN’s to deal with them).

Back to point on the schools. The writers presume that the schools care about the health and safety of the students. I don’t think so. I have always said (because I was taught this) to ignore what organizations say and look at what they do to determine the true mission statement.

We know that HIV is spreading fast among public school students of one race and not, for example, Chinese. Since it is Canon that all men are created equal, the schools can’t target the spread of that disease (and the other VDs). The schools (and least in CA) will let this go on, because to fight it effectively you’d have to break Canon. Diluting your IDC budget across all students wipes out the effort completely.

Some of you in Atlanta may have seen that (Glaxo??) Pharmacy Company campaign about Herpes with the colorful posters proclaiming that half of adults of a certain race have HPV. I believe the campaign was shut down because Political Correctness. Infectous Disease is not race neutral.

While I hope the schools can get their sanitation together, it’s unlikely they will do a thing unless and until they lose lawsuits. You see, they are not in business for the health, safety or education of the students. They have a different mission.

I know the staph infections are terrible, I have met people who were infected following use of public gyms. The stories of the visible infections crawling up their legs and their frantic doctors using increasingly more dangerous antibiotics are terrible. All that from a gang shower.

If the government is involved in the solution it will get a lot worse before better.

Brave New World!!

By Jeff

October 23, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this

Howdy all, I’m BAAACK!! :P (If you’ve been over to Momania or The Book Page you already know that!)

On topic:

I’ll give a hearty AMEN to HST2 on this one.

As many of you know, I spent time working a wilderness camp. At this camp, you were dirty and/ or nasty about 18 hours a day, at least. But you washed your hands with soap and water before every meal. And this place was created by the same guy that founded Eckerd Pharmacy.

I think they had the right idea. Germs are a part of life, and the only way to become resistant to germs is to deal with them naturally. No antibiotics because you have a fever, no Dimetapp just because you have a runny nose or a slight cough. For routine things such as this, let your body heal itself. It knows how. You just have to let it.

Now, if your fever spikes past 103 or so for an hour or more, THEN you probably genuinely need to at least go to the doc.

But these parents that wipe every surface of their house with Clorox 3 times a week are INSANE!!!

I’ve FIELD CLEANED many a plate that I wound up reusing a few times before finally putting it in the dishwasher.

Yet you know how often I’ve been to the doc for being SICK? Let’s put it this way: Other than some run ins with strep around age 10 or so that resulted in my tonsils and adenoids being surgicaly removed, I can LITERALLY count on my fingers (may need the toes as well, but I doubt it) the number of times I have been to the doc for an illness in 24 years. (Strep battles and ankle issues - non-“germ” related not included.)

Fortunately, however, I had a mother who gave you 250mg Tylenol for a MIGRAINE and only took you to the doc after letting you suffer with whatever for at least a week - unless it was symptoms she hadn’t seen before and it looked serious even to her eye. Note that the only times I was ever in an emergency room where when I had something cut open that required stitches or with some kind of ankle injury. I NEVER remember being there for a germ-related illness.

By HB

October 23, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

“So it seems that in some ways, aren’t we contributing to the problem by using antibacterial disinfectants, soaps, etc., instead of just using regular soap and water?”

In many cases, yes! Some of these products should be banned altogether. My understanding is disinfectants like Lysol and other cleaning supplies are good. Hand sanitizers and similar products that use alcohol to kill germs, while shown to be less effective than soap and water, are ok, do no harm, and serve a purpose when soap and water are not readily available. Anti-bacterial soaps, however, usually contain antibiotics in amounts too small to kill, but large enough to help bacteria build up resistance to them. It amazes me that people continue to purchase these products, especially those who make a point to do so during cold and flu season. Cold and flu are viruses, not bacteria!

Most of the schools I’ve read about have had outbreaks among athletes, so I think classrooms are probably pretty safe. Probably the best thing a school can do is teach good gym habits: wipe down weight machines and other equipment with a disinfectant after EVERY use, provide liquid soap in locker room showers instead of bars, require shower shoes, etc.

By Lisa B.

October 23, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this

We don’t even HAVE soap in the bathrooms. A few kids like to smear it everywhere or dump it onto the floor. My son attends a “good” middle school in another system, and has no soap in the bathrooms there either. I’ve even heard of school having to dole out toilet paper individually! How crazy. Our custodians fight a losing battle trying to keep schools clean.

By jim d

October 23, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

oh but if the public really knew.

Y’all worried about a germ?

Let’s just talk air quality with all the mold spores that aren’t picked up. Lets talk the toxic chemicals used in cleaning and fumigating the schools and the residual affects of these chemicals. Take a bit of a look at some of the building materials used both in school construction and manufacuring of “portable classrooms” and the toxcity reports on these materials under extreme heat conditions.

And then if you wish let’s talk about these closed systems that just keep recycling the same old air and disdributing it throughout the entire building, spreading airborne germs.

Anyone else ever request MSDS documents from your schools? You do know of course that they are required by federal law to furnish them upon request? Oh yeah, and an open records request can provide “when and where” these chemicals were applied.

I discovered a few years ago a school system spraying pesticides and fungicides inside a closed trailer with students present, spraying of weed killers outside around the trailers while students were changing classes and teachers closing outside vents to their heat and air systems in trailers in order to more effectively heat and cool the trailers.

Yep, Setting priorities is important. We really need to focus on these new strains of staff infections since they generally affect the athletes. Gotta keep that football team healthy.

Sorry for the rant—No I’m not!

By high school teacher

October 23, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

Lisa B, we didn’t have soap in the bathrooms either - they made sure that all teachers hae hand sanitizer in the room. Not having soap in a public restroom is an OSHA violation, and someone must have threatened to report it, so we have it now.

By Dragonlady

October 23, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

I know an elementary teacher who got a staff infection in her classroom—showed up as a red splotch during the day that grew larger and larger until she showed it to the school nurse, who immediately called an ambulance. The teacher almost died, was in ICU for days.

It turns out that a student in her classroom is a staph carrier. Was she told about this? No. Privacy laws.

And while I am terribly sorry for the child, it does look like the teacher could have been put on her guard.

By catlady

October 23, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this

Nasty is the only word for it. For most of our students, however, the cleanliness of school is a step up.

SET, here is a question for you (or anyone else) about food safety. Our local chicken processing plant employs quite a few workers (more than 30) who test positive for TB. There are also several with actual, active cases. One person at the local health dept has as their sole job to go to the plant and make sure folks take their medicine. (These folks are illegal immigrants who have realistic paperwork to appear legal). Is this safe? Isn’t there a responsibility to not allow folks with active, altho in treatment, TB to work around food? I have given up chicken entirely because it makes me sick to think of it.

What kind of safeguards are in place? I know as a teacher I am never told if a child is under treatment for TB (or anything else except those who are diabetic or highly allergic, which of course don’t spread to others.)

By Lisa B.

October 23, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

HST, we do have hand sanitizer, and I am a Lysol NUT. I don’t think we will ever be able to keep hand soap in the bathrooms. The kids play with it too much.

By Jeff

October 23, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

cat:

Even as a former teacher, I’m going to come down on medical privacy here. I don’t care if the student is a carrier of Ebola, I don’t need to know until I see them bleeding in class.

My only exception to this is if a student attacks the teacher or is a known aggressor who has drawn blood in an attack. At that point, I think every teacher that comes in contact with this child should know the FULL medical history, including any weaknesses that may be exploited (such as that his right arm was once broken) and any illnesses that the student has had or may currently have (up to and including the relatively mundane, such as chickpox).

Note that this is ONLY with a KNOWN aggressive student that has drawn blood in a previous fight. An ULTRA specific class of student.

Otherwise, I’m telling the teacher: Keep your distance physically, stock up on any sanitizers you need for yourself, eat plenty of fruits and veggies, and get plenty of sleep. In other words, use precaution and make sure your immune system is as strong as you can make it.

Another point here, since I mentioned keeping the immune system strong: The only way to strengthen an immune system is to keep it generally healthy (plenty of fruits and veggies, plenty of water, and plenty of rest) AND to threaten it with safe levels of threats. As it deals with levels known to be safe, it can encounter more and more of the toxin and still be able to fight it. In other words, the very same mechanisms that create “super bugs” can be used to create “super immune systems”.

Ever learn how a typical vaccine is made? You take a deadly virus (say Ebola, though no known vaccine has been made for it yet), weaken it (not sure of exactly how you do this, but I know this has to happen), and inject it into the person you are vaccinating. The person’s immune system attacks and destroys the weakened virus, learning its weaknesses and how to fight it in the process. The next time the person encounters the virus will probably be full strength, and yet the immune system can still overcome it.

By Janine

October 23, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this

No soap in the bathrooms and no toilet paper and paper towels I think is pretty common in middle schools for the very reason that Lisa B mentioned. No one seemed to care at my middle school.

Re: jim d’s..Let’s just talk air quality with all the mold spores that aren’t picked up I had a leak in my room that caused mold to be quite visible around the ceiling tiles. I had to keep a big industrial size trash can under it to catch the water…and not just when it rained. I think it came from an airconditioning/heating leak. I complained for quite some time before someone was sent to remove the ceiling tile.[still mold there, still leaking]..I then kept encouraging my students to have their parents call and demand that it be repaired. Next thing I know…and you’re not going to believe this….My classroom was moved down the hall where InHouse Suspension had been …and YEP, the InHouse kids were put in my old leaky room!!! It was still leaking when I retired at the end of the year! And when I asked some of my former colleagues about it the following year…you guessed it…Still leaking!

By Taxpayer

October 23, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

Why not run a blog on the following AP article:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h28LEG90GGTAaEOfdBPKwb5kXdawD8SD5OJO0

Staff germs are scary and definetley need to be addressed, but honestly human predators are horrifying and we need a way to monitor these monsters now.

I believe we should demand an online database which allows parents/taxpayers to see if any of the teachers in their school district have ever lost their teaching license, the reason and the length of the suspension. This should be a national database so if a perpetrator attempts to cross state lines to continue their predatory practices parents will be aware and will be able to remove their children from such monsters.

Thanks! I’ve written my representatives, why don’t you help and write yours and request this database!

By Ronda

October 23, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this

Very clean. We use Lysol for chairs/toys and weak bleach solution for toys. We also use Odoban on the tables. Handwashing is stressed daily. In my own classroom, we started a challenge with the kids. We ask them to wash their hands and use a papertowel to turn off the water. We give them a papertowel to turn off the water. If they do this as a group for 5 days they get a certificate and a prize. We challenged them that if they can keep it up for a month then they will get a party. Children love rewards and this is just another way to get our kids to be cleaner. I can’t tell you how many thought they could run their hands under water without soap and thought that was okay.

By jim d

October 23, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer,

Yeah I read that article a few days ago on the MSNBC site.

AP: Sexual misconduct plagues U.S. schools

Survey finds 2,500 incidents over 5 years, across all types of districts

Seems it may be one of educations best kept secrets.

By Jeff

October 23, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

Taxpayer:

Again, I side with privacy.

As I’ve told T in regards to perported sexual predators living in our neighborhood (GBI’s list doesn’t have them, she says they’re there), IFF I have proof in the form of a GBI Sex Crime Database entry, I’m going to talk to the person and find out the full story before I let my kid near them. If it is as mundane as they happened to be sunbathing naked in their backyard and some kids saw them, not a big deal to me. If it is something as heinous as they raped their daughter, well… it will take much of my self control to not bury them, and my kids aint going anywhere near them unless I have a 12 gauge in my hand.

Indeed, if you found out about how often I had to resort to physical tactics to subdue students at Randolph, you may think I’m some kind of monster. In reality, the kids were just that bad and I had ZERO support from administration, due to a direct order by Bobby Jenkins in an effort to drive me out.

By Mom

October 23, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this

Jim,

That’s only the ones who were caught. What about the ones who got a way? At the expense of the children?

Mom

By Mom

October 23, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

A report ordered by Congress and released in 2004 examined previous studies and surveys of teacher sexual misconduct and sent a troubling message. It estimated that some 4.5 million students out of 50 million in American public schools “are subject to sexual misconduct by an employee of a school sometime between kindergarten and 12th grade.”

By Jeff

October 23, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

jim:

Two points:

1) A single perp can be responsible for multiple incidents on that list.

2) GA alone has 100K+ teachers. Looking at the US population by state, it is easy to assume that CA has 400K+ teachers. Adding in the other states, using similar proportions as GA, it is easy to see 3 MILLION teachers nation-wide.

The percentage there?

0.08%

That’s safer than the public at large!!!

By catlady

October 23, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

Jeff, I guess one reason it concerns me is that I am somewhat immunocompromised, and it is unlikely to get better. Luckily (?!) I am 55 so I have had a full life…..

Seriously, I almost died a couple of years ago. The ID specialist thought I had SARS. I thought I had picked up something from one of the Guatemalan kids. Turns out it was a rare, sudden drug allergy. I agree about confidentiality and on a need to know basis, but I think teachers NEED TO KNOW :) At least about stuff that can kill you or cause you to be short term or long term disabled.

By Mom

October 23, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

I think we need a completely separate blog for this topic. I’ll behave and not post any further comments to this blog and will wait (Please Bridgett) until we have the proper forum to “duke” this one out.

Taxpayer/Mom/Law Abiding Citizen

By high school teacher

October 23, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

Jeff, I’m all for privacy, but teachers need to know of medical conditions. When I was pregnant with my first child, there was a child in my class who was recovering from CMV (ctyo-megalo-virus), which can cause complications of epic proportions to unborn children. The only way I found this information out is because the student told me - she was bragging about missing 6 weeks of school. When I ran to the counsrlor’s office to confirm this info, they begrudgingly confirmed the student’s story. I believe that I need access to that information.

By Jeff

October 23, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

Mom:

That equates to 9%. Well within safe thresholds.

If you live your life thinking there are boogeymen around every corner, you will see them around every corner.

If you live your life knowing that you can DESTROY any boogeymen you encounter, you don’t encounter very many.

In other words,

Whether you think you can or you can’t, you are correct.

By Mom

October 23, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this

Teachers should know about any and all illnesses, including medical. How on earth are you supposed to take care of yourself, much less a child who may suffer from seizures, fainting spells, asthma, etc. I really don’t understand why a teacher being informed of their students physical ailments such an issue. As long as a teacher is equipped with this knowledge they may save a student’s life.

By Mom

October 23, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this

Teachers should know about any and all illnesses, including medical. How on earth are you supposed to take care of yourself, much less a child who may suffer from seizures, fainting spells, asthma, etc. I really don’t understand why a teacher being informed of their students physical ailments is such an issue. As long as a teacher is equipped with this knowledge they may save a student’s life.

By Filthy Dump

October 23, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this

Well, I would guess the Atlanta Public School (elementary) in which I taught was NOT very clean, since….

1)I brought my own toilet paper for the kids to use, otherwise they would have none. Oh, and the bathrooms had NO soap. 2) The kids had to bring the toilet paper BACK to our room each time so that roaches would not hide btwn the sheets (roaches LOVE paper!)…God only knows where the rolls sat when they were in the restrooms! 3) There were so many roaches, we could even see them trapped and dying in the digital screens of the telephones and microwaves!!!! 4) Every year, poop was used as a bathroom wall writing tool. 5) When I unrolled tin foil from the cafeteria container, roaches came out from between those sheets!! 6) A “really big opossum” was seen in the cafeteria by a fellow teacher (who does not know his mammals!)….

So….I’m guessing….not very clean!

By SET

October 23, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this

Catlady: Mexican invaders bring in all kinds of pathogens, TB and Drug Resistant TB is one of them (endemic). I have not heard of TB being spread by food supplies. There are other interesting pathogens that can be spread in food handled by infected people.

Mexican invaders as a rule don’t have a clue about sanitation. I’m not saying they are malicious - they generally aren’t - they are hardworking people - but they have no clue about sanitation and disease. They are a culture that doesn’t do high school biology - or 8th grade science. If you are dealing with them or their children it’s up to you to teach them sanitation & handwashing and why it’s required. Most teachers are up to this if they get the point that you need to teach (at school) to some groups things that other groups get from their homelife. People are not all alike.

Teachers are the first line of defense to TB and should never assume a coughing (not just “a cough” but coughing) Mexican or South American immigrant student has “hay fever” which is what happened in the Orange County High School outbreak of Drug Resistant TB, California’s worse school TB outbreak. I’d suggest direct consult with the local TB Controller at Public Health - telling the school administration would usually be a waste of time. Such phone consults can be done discreetly. In the good old days there was a school nurse around who knew what to look for - kids would be sent to the nurse for clearance.

After a few scandals the School might do in-service training on TB or even enforce the typical rules about not letting kids into school without medical workups. If the child is known to be skin-test positive for TB then you really should handle bouts of coughing a certain way (“Think TB”), ditto night sweats, weight loss, and coughing up blood is a bad sign too.

Teachers can handle all this - it’s part of the job. What the school must do is impose and enforce basic IDC standards like soap & hot water in the bathrooms, sanitation on the campus, and standard medical clearance before any child sets foot in the school. Our restaurant inspectors will shut down instantly any restaurant without hot water in the bathrooms. I’ve not heard of anybody shutting a school for sanitation violations.

I personally feel it’s critical to warn the teachers privately if any child has a known medical condition that requires special handling or special emergency readiness. (This also includes death threats from ex-boyfriends, gang assassins, mother’s ex-lovers, etc.)

I don’t think such safety standards are being met at public schools, probably because it’s not about the students or their lives. It’s all about PC.

I hope GA doesn’t have any of these problems. Maybe this is just a CA thing.

By SET

October 23, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this

Catlady: Mexican invaders bring in all kinds of pathogens, TB and Drug Resistant TB is one of them (endemic). I have not heard of TB being spread by food supplies. There are other interesting pathogens that can be spread in food handled by infected people.

Mexican invaders as a rule don’t have a clue about sanitation. I’m not saying they are malicious - they generally aren’t - they are hardworking people - but they have no clue about sanitation and disease. They are a culture that doesn’t do high school biology - or 8th grade science. If you are dealing with them or their children it’s up to you to teach them sanitation & handwashing and why it’s required. Most teachers are up to this if they get the point that you need to teach (at school) to some groups things that other groups get from their homelife. People are not all alike.

Teachers are the first line of defense to TB and should never assume a coughing (not just “a cough” but coughing) Mexican or South American immigrant student has “hay fever” which is what happened in the Orange County High School outbreak of Drug Resistant TB, California’s worse school TB outbreak. I’d suggest direct consult with the local TB Controller at Public Health - telling the school administration would usually be a waste of time. Such phone consults can be done discreetly. In the good old days there was a school nurse around who knew what to look for - kids would be sent to the nurse for clearance.

After a few scandals the School might do in-service training on TB or even enforce the typical rules about not letting kids into school without medical workups. If the child is known to be skin-test positive for TB then you really should handle bouts of coughing a certain way (“Think TB”), ditto night sweats, weight loss, and coughing up blood is a bad sign too.

Teachers can handle all this - it’s part of the job. What the school must do is impose and enforce basic IDC standards like soap & hot water in the bathrooms, sanitation on the campus, and standard medical clearance before any child sets foot in the school. Our restaurant inspectors will shut down instantly any restaurant without hot water in the bathrooms. I’ve not heard of anybody shutting a school for sanitation violations.

I personally feel it’s critical to warn the teachers privately if any child has a known medical condition that requires special handling or special emergency readiness. (This also includes death threats from ex-boyfriends, gang assassins, mother’s ex-lovers, etc.)

I don’t think such safety standards are being met at public schools, probably because it’s not about the students or their lives. It’s all about PC.

I hope GA doesn’t have any of these problems. Maybe this is just a CA thing.

By flipper

October 23, 2007 5:19 PM | Link to this

Hmmmm… my daughter at age 7 just had to get a HepA shot. It will be required for all children next year. Normally, only someone going to an unclean third world country needs to get this shot. According to our doctor, since we are getting so many third world “undocumented citizens,” there have been significant outbreaks of HepA so every child will need to be vaccinated so that they don’t pick it up from third world immigrants at school.

In another 20 years we too will be a third world country. Then maybe things will get so bad that the “undocumented citizens” will re-invade their mother countries.

By SET

October 23, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

Sorry about the double post! spastic enter button.

Filthy Dump: The problem here is you remaining an employee at that school or in that district. Any worker that remains in such a workplace has a self respect problem. I can also make remarks about any parent who would have their child attend such a school.

When I rant about lack of discipline in public schools - the ultimate expression of “lack of discipline” is the feces smeared on the walls. At that point the school needs to be closed and the students sent home. After school re-opening perhaps the children need to be sent to the bathrooms in shifts with paid bathroom monitors - and the bathrooms locked otherwise.

Whatever it takes.

If the district can’t even get to the point of dealing with this, there is no point in pretending that any learning is going on. The word “school” should be taped over on the building signs until the institution has gotten past this issue. And yes, certain “students’ need to be expelled and sent to mental institutions or other suitable places.

Readers have seen me use the term “government nuthouses” before. I have toured CA locked State Hospitals. They don’t have this problem. I know some public schools do and they are simply badly run nuthouses.

I also subscribe to the “broken window” theory that relatively minor breeches in discipline make likely increasingly more serious violations. Come down harder on the introductory breeches of discipline and you will have less feces on the walls.

As to the “privacy” argument on the medical conditions - that policy is just an excuse for the school to not do it’s job in protecting the physical safety of students or staff. Of Course the school must be ready to handle medically fragile or medically compromised students or students dangerous to others. That means alerting teachers who and what to watch for.

By catlady

October 23, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

Because of NCLB, we don’t send home kids unless they are vomiting like crazy or have fevers over 101. Our nurse seems particularly unsympathetic to the Latino kids, but that may be just my imagination (and that of other teachers as well).

God help us if bird flu ever came along! Our school would be wiped out in a matter of weeks, because parents won’t keep their sick kids home (they “can’t” miss work. Well, hll, I can’t either). They aren’t scared of the judge, ‘cause he virtually NEVER does anything about our chronic absentees (20+ days a year over and over again, same kids year after year).

My problem is, I don’t think I should be made sick by a parent not taking care of their child’s illness. Loss of pay hurts me, too! And I get btched out for missing days.

On the original topic, our school has tp and soap and usually has paper towels so rough they will take your skin off—so will the tp! Most teachers use the hand sanitizer, but I have trouble with the drying effects and the smell. Our custodial staff works very very hard to keep the place up in the common areas. It is hard because some of the students seem to have been brought up without basic civilized behavior (toilet flushing, etc). Amazing to me.

I had an aha! moment 2 years ago when I went to Costa Rica. I had wondered why people increasingly use the bathroom and then throw their used tp on the floor. Perhaps they truly are not accustomed to toilets with enough pressure to flush away the paper, I discovered, as it is common in some areas to throw the tp in a trash can in the toilet area after use. Of course, that does not explain our “American” kids doing it. Mostly at our school the kids do okay, except for the toilet flushing.

I have never seen roaches alive or dead in our school, but the spray guy comes around and nukes the rooms several times a year (during school hours).

I do a poor job of sanitizing in my room. It is shared by 3 teachers but I am the only one cleaning so I have pretty much quit. I quit buying cleaning supplies and kleenex, too. I keep a small personal supply of kleenex when my allergies are especially bad, but I try to sneak into the hall to use it. (One year I bought 35 boxes of kleenex, but never again).

When the lice or scabies get stirred up I do make more of an effort to spray, but I doubt that does any good.

By catlady

October 23, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this

flipper,it will never get that bad (by comparison)

By Bridget Gutierrez

October 23, 2007 6:08 PM | Link to this

Mom: We’ve blogged about sex offenders in schools before (and I’m sure we will again), but feel free to talk about it here.

You can also check out what people had to say about the issue previously, if you’re interested.

By thomas

October 23, 2007 6:11 PM | Link to this

I learned something Mexicans and toilets when I was teaching at a school that is 70% Latino (almost ALL of which is Mexican). I had to put signs in the restroom stalls/urinals that said “flush toilet, please” in English and Spanish. Otherwise the stench coming from the restrooms would make you vomit.

I would go to the restaurants and stores in the neighborhood and see trash cans filled with brown smeared toilet paper. Lord have mercy.

That was one aspect of my Latino experience that was too much.

By WhatWillBridgetDo?

October 23, 2007 6:18 PM | Link to this

So Bridget, if you’re going to tout “test scores” as proof of a miracle turnaround that warrants the front page of the AJC, why not post ITBS scores which give a MUCH TRUER measure of academic performance?

Or would getting a TRUE indication make it harder to do your job as a PR flack for APS? (After all a “reporter” would want to access as much information as they could lay their hands on to ACCURATELY tell a story right?)

Veteran teachers on this board can tell you the HUGE difference between a criterion referenced test like the CRCT and a norm referenced test like the ITBS.

Of course the biggest difference might be that since the public (and the NCLB folks) don’t pay attention to ITBS scores anymore, no one thinks to CHEAT on it.

Mind you, the extra data might have even CONFIRMED the “miracle turnaround” but we’ll never know, because Bridget didn’t WANT to know, as it may have interfered with her “PR angle”.

By Bridget Gutierrez

October 23, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this

WWBD: Venetian Hills was judged a failing school because of its performance on the state CRCT exams and won the Blue Ribbon award because of its performance on the CRCT exams, which is the turnaround discussed in the story. ITBS scores didn’t factor into either equation.

By WhatWillBridgetDo?

October 23, 2007 6:56 PM | Link to this

I’ll be the first to say that the Venetian Hills data may be totally legit. But given a school system where even it’s OWN board members have had questions about the integrity of test scores, the ITBS scores could have provided a TRUE measure of the school’s success.

Just because a school is named a “Blue Ribbon” school, does NOT mean that it is an excellent school, any more than a child “passing” the CRCT means the child actually knows how to read.

Put in this way: if you had asked for the ITBS data, and they were more than happy to share it, that would have been a pretty good sign of a REAL turnaround.

The school may have earned “Blue Ribbon” status, but what exactly does that mean when it’s based on a CRCT that has been manipulated by Kathy Cox (and her ridiculously low “cut scores”) to produce “passing scores” for children who the REAL world would call functionally illiterate?

By Lisa B.

October 23, 2007 8:54 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately, unimmunized children are admitted to school every year. I suggested last year that if children aren’t properly immunized, they should not be allowed to enroll. Then all these doctors called in saying they were out of the Chicken Pox vaccine, and we let the kids come to school. Once enrolled, we can’t kick them out for lack of immunization because it goes against the school on attendance and harms us on AYP. Sheesh.

We know we have health risks in our schools. However, since the schools are resposible and accountable for attendance, we’re not sending anyone home. That applies to mentally ill, emotionally disturbed kids as well.

What a world.

By parentof3

October 24, 2007 9:18 AM | Link to this

My son was hospitalized in 11/2006 w/ MSRA and it was a VERY scary experience. I reported this to his wrestling coach and he did NOTHING. The only way the others parents on his team knew of this is because I told them. I later found out that several other kids had this as well. I am glad to see that schools are taking this more seriously as this can be somthing that is carried for years w/ the affected patient in their nose. My son got very lucky that we caught this quickly.

By DawgPile

October 24, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

Schools cannot solve all problems in society - mental, emotional, physical, sexual, etc.

This bug/virus/whatever is a problem in our society. Larger cities means that people are living in closer quarters that means things such as this can be transmitted easier.

It is not just a ‘school problem.’

Any solution that you can come up with to help society will also help the ‘school problem.’ How can you hold schools accountable for a society problem?

We cannot expect schools to solve all of our problems. Today’s schools have enough on their plate simply trying to educate (teaching the content).

By duh, try reading

October 24, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

SET,

Please read before attacking! I said I TAUGHT (past tense) in that school. AND, the entire post was written in past tense.

And then along came an ‘educator’ who can’t read and decided to attack me for “staying”…..either read or be nice, but to not read and then be nasty on top of it…that’s just embarrassing!

By SET

October 24, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

I assume that duh is also “filthy dump”.

I’m not an educator, BTW. Was a sub, once, Now a lawyer.

And I’m hardly attacking you personally by saying that people - the workers - should never work in an environment such as you described. The thing is I believe that people, and teachers, do stay under such conditions.

And if you think this dialog is nasty, work in a courtroom sometime.

The bloggers here don’t know each other. We are debating educational policy - and broadcasting whatever we see or have seen in the public schools. And maybe where we think things are taking the nation.

By SET

October 24, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

Off Topic but funny - article in today’s SF Chronicle about a teacher complaining about HS students, “American Kids, Dumber than dirt”

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2007/10/24/notes102407.DTL&hw=Mark+Morford&sn=002&sc=545

By Tony

October 24, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

From basic biology - germs spread. Washing hands and everything else prevents the spread. This is not a hard lesson to understand.

From advanced biology - natural selection (sometimes called evolution) allows species to adapt. When a cleaning product states that it kills 99.9% of germs, which tenth of a percent do you think still lives? It’s not the weak.

On immunizations - it’s the one who is not immunized who is at risk by being in large group settings. And, schools, by law, are not allowed to enroll children without immunizations. I don’t see how anyone can claim otherwise.

On the proliferation of mold/mildew spores - In a school where I worked, someone successfully created a panic that the ducts were full of mold/mildew and children were adversely affected. The unit broke down and was replaced with individual units. The ductwork was removed and was CLEAN! Can you believe that. No mold or mildew or bacteria or anything else was in there to poison the children in the school.

Is my school clean? Yes. Do we have pathogens? Yes. Any building you enter will have germs of all sorts. Good hygiene practices help to keep us safe.

By OldSchool

October 24, 2007 6:41 PM | Link to this

SET (at 2:01) Thanks for posting the link to the SF Chronicle article. I had just read it and was going to post it myself.

I can fairly easily tell which of my high school drafting students grew up playing with tinkertoys, lincoln logs, building blocks, legos, etc. They catch onto the basics of orthographic projection and axonometric drawings quickly.

Back to the cleanliness subject: I make it a point to spray keyboards and every mouse at least once a week. Unfortunately, I’ve got a number of really good students who are obviously ill showing up for class everyday because they don’t want to miss their AP classes or homecoming activities…but then again, I’ve been known to come to school ill because it’s just too much work planning for incompetent subs. (I just HATE having to repair equipment when I come back to school.)