Get Schooled

By V for Vendetta

October 19, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

Funny.

I think the bigger question is: why do they waive the test for good students who repeatedly, but narrowly, flunk the exams. Last time I checked, the tests weren’t exactly thought-provoking. Perhaps that indicates a major flaw in the difficulty level of college prep classes.

I say: NO, they should NOT be allowed to walk. The bottom line is this: IT IS NOT HARD TO GRADUATE FROM HIGH SCHOOL. We’re not talking about passing the MCAT or the BAR exam here, we’re talking about graduating from high school. If you couldn’t hack it, well then tough poop for you.

When will we stop patting kids on the back for achieving ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. This is the problem, plain as day: Kids have no idea what it is to actually ACHIEVE something because so very few of them ever have to. They are passed on, regardless of ability or test scores, to the next level. When it stops, perhaps we won’t need to have asinine arguments like this any more. Until then, let’s all just keep patting them on the back for nothing; let’s keep celebrating mediocrity; let’s keep promoting them up to the next level so they are someone else’s problem.

Why are we near the bottom of education again?

By JustMe

October 19, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

I agree with the Fulton staff members. Only those students that are indeed graduating should participate in graduation exercises. A high school certificate is meaningless and is most certainly not a diploma.

Possibly, just possibly, this may motivate some students falling short of credits to step it up in their senior year.

By Above the norm

October 19, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

Both my children have been in gifted programs since 1st grade. They have worked hard and earned their grades and awards. Nothing ticks me off more than to see this moronic movement to treat all kids the same academically based on the fact that they breath in and out. What are we teaching the next generation if hard work isn’t rewarded? Many people complain about the sense of entitlement so many of our teenagers and young adults have. Guess where it came from? Minimum effort is rewarded with maximum recognition.

Graduation means that a diploma was earned, that hard work is rewardable and contributions are acknowledged. It doesn’t mean you showed up to school enough times to keep your name on the role.

By tc

October 19, 2007 1:13 PM | Link to this

Above the Norm: Not every child is “gifted” - although those definitions vary widely across school districts. More and more parents use the term to put themselves on a pedestal. Some children don’t test well and should not be denied a diploma, especially if they have taken all required courses and received passing grades. Every child is not college material and until people like yourself, with the elitist attitude, get that through their heads, many children will still continue to fall through the cracks. Denying them a diploma puts them further behind and makes it even harder for them to work “regular” jobs and provide for their families one day. You have no idea how hard they may have worked. For the record, both my children are in gifted programs in another state and have passed the same types of test.

By Carmen

October 19, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

When I graduated from high school four years ago, the ceremony really didn’t mean anything to me. If someone who hadn’t technically graduated walked, I wouldn’t have cared.

Earlier this year, when I graduated from college I celebrated by…going to work.

By Joe

October 19, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

Why even give a certificate? You go to school to learn and graduate. Not just show up.

By jct

October 19, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this

I was appalled to find out the students who were not receiving a diploma would be able to participate in graduation ceremonies. I live in DeKalb and found out last year that this was the norm for the high school our son attends. We told our son, in uncertain terms, that if he could not complete the requirements to receive the diploma that there would be no way that we would allow him to participate in a sham graduation ceremony. He will not walk with the rest of his class. That should be a privilege to those who worked hard and completed the necessary requirements.

We wonder why there is this sense of privilege with these young people? I don’t see how any school administrator could defend this policy. If you can participate, you can fake with pictures that you graduated. It is time to stop rewarding minimal efforts and behaviors.

By jct

October 19, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

I was appalled to find out the students who were not receiving a diploma would be able to participate in graduation ceremonies. I live in DeKalb and found out last year that this was the norm for the high school our son attends. We told our son, in no uncertain terms, that if he could not complete the requirements to receive the diploma that there would be no way that we would allow him to participate in a sham graduation ceremony. He will not walk with the rest of his class. That should be a privilege to those who worked hard and completed the necessary requirements.

We wonder why there is this sense of privilege with these young people? I don’t see how any school administrator could defend this policy. If you can participate, you can fake with pictures that you graduated. It is time to stop rewarding minimal efforts and behaviors.

By Joe

October 19, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

TC,

The tests to graduate are not tough and the children don’t test well it is because they have not mastered the lessons they were taught in class. The great thing about this country is everybody has the opportunity to earn the American Dream. Giving someone a meaningless certificate or diploma is part of the reasons why other countries are catching up to the USA.

By SET

October 19, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

Here we go again. What is the mission statement of these government schools? Don’t look at what they say, look at what they do.

Educating students is nice but it’s purely optional. The mission of these government nuthouses is something else. That something else is what compels them to allow every Tom, Dick and Harry, Antione or Laquisha to march on “graduation” even when they haven’t - or can’t - “graduate”. And as we know it doesn’t take that much to “graduate”.

I could draw conclusions that the real mission statement is pacification, indoctrination (including moral relativism), self aggrandizement of the administration (not the teachers who are disposable) you can add your own terms. If the factory products are unable to get a job or join the army, that’s not anything the factory cares about. they really don’t care about the kids that’s why they are incapable of disciplining them. Discipline takes constant concern, the minute you don’t give a damn about the kids you stop maintaning standards or clean bathrooms.

Keeping the failures out of the ceremony became a threat to the real mission of the schols, Ipso Facto, they must be allowed to march.

Children have a habit of meeting expectations they are held to. Once they are telegraphed that the expectations are actually something else than in the student handbook, they tend to move up or down to the real expectation. Backing down on the graduation ceremony is a powerful signal that nobody really has to show up and turn in their work. Or behave.

Brave New World.

By Above the norm

October 19, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

TC - I don’t think it is elitist thinking to believe that the reward of a graduation exercise should only be given to those who have graduated. Nothing was said about denying them anything they deserve. The discussion is on whether a student who has not passed the graduation tests should be allowed to participate in a ceremony celebrating said graduation. My point is if you don’t deserve the reward, then it shouldn’t be given.

Giving anything to someone who doesn’t deserve it does nothing but reinforce the belief that one is entitled to whatever one wants. It’s the liberal minded who want everyone treated exactly alike that have dumbed down the population to the point that mediocre is lauded and accomplishment is derided.

By V for Vendetta

October 19, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

tc - oh please. Cry me a freaking river. While I don’t disagree that gifted students are often portrayed as saints, it doesn’t excuse the school from allowing a bunch of sham graduations. Joe is absolutely correct: the tests are not exactly difficult. You would have to be more than just “a bad test taker” to not pass them, you’d have to be a complete and utter moron. If the college prep courses at all schools were rigorous enough, perhaps we wouldn’t need such silly tests.

Most of the people on here have it right, it’s just unfortunate that so many schools lack the backbone to make such simple decisions.

Bridget, perhaps some sort of blog or story about this epidemic of “praise pandering” would be a thought-provoking subject to blog on. It begins when kids enter the public school system, and doesn’t stop until they hit the reality check of college. Or Burger King. Whichever comes first.

By Lee

October 19, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this

These graduation tests are the result of a much larger problem. That is, schools are passing the marginal student from grade to grade with little regard to the end result.

Educrats, eager to appear that they are actually doing something about their schools graduating illiterates, impose these asinine tests.

Typical government crap.

Reminds me of about 25 years ago when the city of Atlanta’s black politico’s said there weren’t enough black police lieutenants. Seems they had to pass a test in order to be considered for promotion. So, the black police captains revised the test to eliminate the “cultural bias.” Blacks still failed in about the same ratio as before. So, in their infinite wisdom they said “We don’t need no stinking test” and began promoting whoever they wanted.

Gee, maybe the same people running our schools are related to the city of Atlanta folks.

By BCR

October 19, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

Does anybody know if there are alternate graduation tests for students with learning disabilities?

By BCR

October 19, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this

There we go. I was wondering how and when someone was going to bring race into this blog. I can say one thing about the AJC blogs, they are consistent. By the way, to the people on the blog that say these tests are so simple, have you seen or taken them? Yes, I passed mine with flying colors. Yes, it was simple for me, but I can’t speak for others.

By Above the norm

October 19, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

I love the phrase “praise pandering”. Any parent who has had to sit through the middle school graduation ceremony knows exactly what that means. Teachers are pressured to come up with some sort of award for every single student, no matter how empty of meaning it may be. I actually heard one teacher give a child an award for bravery because he had a terrible skin rash during the winter term and didn’t complain much about it.

This same middle school had a tradition of an annual field trip for the kids in the gifted program to reward them for their dedication during the year. Parents started complaining that it made the non-gifted children feel bad, so the trip was canceled.

What message is that sending??? Where in life-after-school do we get what we don’t earn? Why are we teaching our children that if they whine and cry enough about some imagined injustice they can get what they want? The schools are educating the work ethic out of our children.

By high school teacher

October 19, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this

BCR, students with disabilities can have the test read to them and can have extra time on the test. There is an alternate test, but only 1% of the school’s population can take it. That leavs special ed kids with the task of passing the test, or getting a special ed diploma, which they can’t use to get into college.

I have mixed feelings on this issue. I’m all for high standards, but now that we don’t have any options for the non-college prep kids, I feel for them. I have never worked in a school that doesn’t allow certificate of attendance recipients to walk. I imagine that if that were to happen, many parents would raise a big stink. However, I work in a non “metro-Atlanta” county, and the mindset here is quite different than in the metro area. People here are happy living at just above poverty level. Many of our kids leave high school and make a fine living working with their Daddy on the farm or in the chicken house. To that effect, why not let them walk just because they might not have passed a test?

By jim d

October 19, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

I don’t really know on this one. to be frank, Don’t really care.

I can tell you that as far back as 66 students that had failed to get their credits were being allowed to walk at some schools.

So why is it even an issue 40+ years later?

By ALM

October 19, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this

I graduated in ‘04, and barely did so because I constantly skipped school, slept in class, and didn’t do homework. When I took the graduation tests, I flew threw them with plenty of time to sleep between sections. I also didn’t even use a calculator for the math portion and aced it along with getting distinction marks for scoring high on the other sections as well. Georgia high schools and the state’s graduation test are both mind-numbingly easy. If your child can’t pass these tests, he/she deserves another year of starting at a white-board. They’ll have plenty of time to make new friends to walk with at the next opportunity.

By cara

October 19, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

If a student hasn’t met the graduation requirements then they should noot be allowed to participate. They give you many, many, many chances to pass that test so there is really no excuse.

By John

October 19, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

This is a no-brainer. The ceremony has a name and a purpose: GRADUATION. If you are not graduating, you do not march and you do not participate. Anybody who argues otherwise needs to go back to high school and learn what graduation means.

By jim d

October 19, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

jct,

What harm is done to your child if another walks? I mean it’s not like he’s stealing anything from your kid.

They merely walk across the stage and get a blank piece of paper. They do not Pass GO and collect two hundred dollars. And 99% of the people in attendance don’t have a clue.

I guess I just don’t understand the hostility towards these kids.

By BCR

October 19, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

Thanks for that info high school teacher.

By Concerned Teacher

October 19, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

I believe that students should have to pass the GHSGT to walk plain and simple. The are given ample times

By SET

October 19, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

BCR - you’re going to have to get used to the race thing. Race politics is all about why the Government school’s can’t function as schools anymore. If it weren’t for the need to protect black students from existant white standards, we wouldn’t have these problems in our cities.

You may boo hoo over me saying this - lots of people do. Reality Bites. Whites are generally unable to be politically incorrect or stand up for very much anymore. I don’t have that problem, I’m not white anyway.

School integration as set up by “Brown vs Board of Education” is an unmixed disaster for the US and it’s principal cities. Forcing intergration led to forcing reduction of standards so that a group with incompatible standards could intergrate without changing.

I would have preferred a decision on that case that the two systems may remain but the previously white only schools must admit those who meet objective standards. In otherwards, no forced integration and no quotas, but objective standards for both the formerly black and white school systems. The Supreme Court of that day was packed with politicians and they lost track of principles in favor of political compromise.

It’s not just a black and white issue - we have the Mexican Invasion of the US with 15 million plus people to “integrate” as well as the non-performing white students to manage. The point is that it was a fatal mistake for standards to force any integration at the price of “anything goes” qualifications.

Lee is right about what has happened to police and fire (and all civil service) hiring. Standards up to and including honesty, skill & integrity are being tossed overboard for racial & sexual quotas.

In CA we have made Affirmative Action illegal in public schools and employment. So we’ve started to lightly apply the brakes.

Economic Change is coming now like a train down the tracks. I think we will things to worry about soon other than accomodating non-performing minorities. We should severly tighten up standards of performance now before things get worse.

Brave New World.

By BCR

October 19, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

Next question. I have never needed to take the test to get a GED, but does anyone know if the 2 tests are similar? Anyway, who are the graduation ceremonies really for? I know I when I graduated high school, I was just ready for it to be over so I could go out and party, as were most of my classmates.

By HB

October 19, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

If kids pass the school’s required courses, earning adequate grades according to the school’s own measure, I say let them walk with their class. They put the work in, and the graduation test alone should not bar them from the ceremony. However, students who do not earn enough credits, whether they pass the test or not, should not be allowed to participate. Think of it like a med or law school graduation. Students completing those programs can participate in graduation ceremonies if they earn enough credits without having passed all their Boards or the Bar.

I think as V said, it’s a good idea to question why kids can pass the class but not the state test. Did the student not study enough? Are the classes watered down to the point that kids can earn a good grade but not be prepared for the state test? Is the test itself badly designed? Seems there’s a much bigger issue here than who gets to walk across the stage…

By BCR

October 19, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

I am sort of split on this. I feel for those students that worked their butts of for 4 years of high school and passed all their classes, legitmately, not just being passed on, then fail one part of this test and can’t get a diploma. But I guess fair is fair and you can’t determine things in this particular situation case by case. It sucks though for the ones that actually worked hard though.

By BCR

October 19, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

Okay, thanks for that lesson.

By kristin

October 19, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

Why isn’t vocational training in schools anymore? It seems that we focus on “gifted” or “college prep” programs and the reality is that not every child is college bound.

Personally, I do not care for graduation tests, however it is a requirement to recive a diploma so you should have to pass the test in order to march. THat’s just the way the cookie crumbles some times.

By ALM

October 19, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

HB, while getting the work done at school is the major part of the battle, don’t forget that the purpose of education is to get just that, an education. Sure someone’s kid may have done their four years of referencing their textbooks and the internet to get all the answers to their schoolwork and homework questions, and gotten adequate passing grades in doing so. But that doesn’t mean they learned the material, which is the entire purpose of our education system.

The graduation tests puts students in a situation to show that they have actually LEARNED everything that’s been taught to them over the years. There’s nothing to reference their, you got your test, a pencil, and a calculator if you can’t handle simple math in your head.

If you can’t pass the test, you can’t walk. Please try again next year.

By jim d

October 19, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

Walking = Graduation = diploma?

I don’t get it.

By BCR

October 19, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

Kristin, I don’t think the state wants to give money for vocational training anymore because they probably don’t care about those students because they look at them as underachievers and don’t think they are worth the time and money. They cater to the gifted and college prep, and that still isn’t much in the State of Georgia. Like you said, not every child is cut out for college, at least not right out of high school. The state is basically telling those kids to make a living how ever you can, GOOD LUCK.

By ALM

October 19, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

Jim D,

We’re obviously talking about learning impaired students here. The students being discussed and their respective parents can’t grasp the simplicity shown by that math equation.

By high school teacher

October 19, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this

Sometimes kids don’t pass the tests because they are tired of taking tests. They have 8 end-of course tests that they take over the course of their 4 years, and originally, the graduation tests were supposed to go away after EOCT. Not the case.

The administration of the graduation tests is in the prime of baseball and soccer season. Last year, our baseball team had an away game the night before the science portion (the one with the highest failure rate), and they didn’t get home until around 10:30 or so.

As for the waivers: students can only get a waiver if they have passed the EOCTs in that subject area. IMO, the EOCT is more difficult than the GHSGT.

By jim d

October 19, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

Ah, but ALM,

is it truly a simplistic equation?

Perhaps it could have more than one meaning?

By kristin

October 19, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this

BCR,

The funny thing is that I have a College degree and the last HVAC, Plumber,and Mechanic that I’ve hired earn more than I do and they all seem very happy and content with thier life.

Sad that some students would do much better working with their hands than studying and taking tests, it’s not right or wrong it’s just how it is.

By ALM

October 19, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

Ahhh indeed Jim D, my interpretation of your equation was that it’s pretty much common sense in that walking = graduation = diploma. I assumed the question mark as being sarcastic addition to the comment.

By ALM

October 19, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

Kristin, getting into a vocational skill still(for the most part) requires a secondary education where it will be necessary to actually learn what’s necessary for the profession.

I graduated with a dual seal diploma, I took Automotive as my vocational course. We spend half the class doing actual classword and the second half out in the garage doing hands-on work. Our tests were not hands on tests, they were like any other school test.

To be a certified ASE mechanic you have to take a very difficult test that shows you learned what’s necessary to be productive in the field. The ASE test is much about using diagnosis to identify and solve the problems, rather than showing some John Doe that you can put new brake pads on a Tahoe. If an aspiring mechanic can’t learn his material, therefore being unable to pass the test, it will be very difficult to have a good career in the automotive field, even if he can tear my engine apart and put it back together over the weekend.

In short, even vocational students need to be prepared for real world learning.

By BCR

October 19, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

Kristin, I agree. I wish I was better with my hands. I get sick and tired of sitting behind a desk all day. But knowing me, I would say the same thing if I were working with my hands. You are exactly right though.

By BCR

October 19, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

So I guess all that is left is flipping burgers or selling dope. Hmmmmm.

By BCR

October 19, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah, I forgot about the military, but I’d rather flip burgers the rest of my life if those were my only choices.

By WAR EAGLE

October 19, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

My kid is gifted too-with 100 shares of Burlington Northern, Smith and Wesson and Sturm Ruger. And my kid graduated HS with a 3.3 and has a 3.2 in college-Pre Law of course…

By NICK

October 19, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this

If your kid is unable to pass their classes in the public school system, they are RETARDED……..

Who cares whether or not these retards walk, they will either be flipping burgers at The Varsity, on welfare or in prison.

By mel

October 19, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this

If you did not complete the requirements, you did not graduate, right? If you did not graduate, then tough noogies, go to summer school, learn to study and take tests (which, you should already know how to do with 12 years in school) and come back the next year to try again. Maybe you can graduate a year behind your chums. I had no problems with high school or college, Thank God! And I am on my second college degree. I spent time learning the material, that is why I was a student. Though classes, but very rewarding. If you can’t pass a simple test, how are you going to deal as an adult in the real world? Nobody is going to give you anything. You will have to earn it. Isn’t that what these kids should be learning. Go to school, learn the material, earn the respect of your teachers and peers, and earn the degree.

By Play that Funky Music Whiteboy

October 19, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this

I remember when I graduated high school, seated next to me in the commencement was a girl from the Junior class, donned in cap and gown. Come to find out she was a 20 year old Junior who just went ahead and took her GED - and passed it. The school let her “walk” with us. Some of my classmates were upset about this, but I figured, hey this may be the highest achievement of this poor girls life - she worked for it. At least she didn’t drop out.

I’m a little ignorant (since it’s been a while since I’ve graduated high school and my kids are too young to even be in elementary school) but what happens to the kids now who complete all their courses but don’t pass this test they give? Are they considered high school graduates (on a job application) or not??

By BCR

October 19, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this

Man, the tone in some of these responses sound like you people are assuming that all the people that are not passing this test are people that don’t give a crap about school or learning. Granted there are plenty of them out there, but my God, ease up. There are students that are very serious about education and work hard in school that don’t pass. I hope you don’t have children or grandchildren in this situation. Don’t get me wrong, rules are rules, but stop assuming people’s situation.

By jim d

October 19, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this

Actually BCR,

Our nations military academies draw from the best of the best in high school. It’s not a bad route to take.

By BCR

October 19, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

No disrepect to our brave men and women in the armed forces fighting for the USA, but I want no part of that. The military is no place for me. I’m not trying to sign my life over to anyone. If I don’t agree in a war, I want the option not to have to fight it.

By Angel 401

October 19, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this

Why should one test determine if a student graduates or not? We must all keep in mind that some people just don’t test well. Many students just don’t operate well under pressure and that could possibly be the cause of them not passing the test in the first place. If a student has went through school and met all requirements other than the graduation test, yes they should be allowed to march during graduation. What right does anyone have to tell a child that regardless of the fact they may be a great student with an A average, they are not allowed to graduate becasue they failed a portion of a test. That’s ludacris!!!

By high school teacher

October 19, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

Nice to see so much compassion on the blog today.

Kids who don’t pass a portion of the test are not “retards.” Many of them work hard, study hard, come to review sessions, and pass their classes, but for some reason they cannot pass one of those tests. That doesn’t make them lazy or stupid. It does make them unable to get a job that requires a high school diploma.

For those of you who have no sympathy for the “lazy retards,” what do you suggest that they do with their lives?

By BCR

October 19, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

High school teacher, I have the same sentiment as you about some of these bloggers, but for some reason they wouldn’t post mine. I don’t understand some people. Then they wonder why people call us ugly Americans. These children can feel when people don’t give a damn about them and in turn they stop believing in themselves and lose hope. THANKS AMERICA!

By fed up

October 19, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

OK, “walk” everyone. That’s fine. Just make a distinction in the “diploma” that they get. Some are announced with distinguished diplomas (the gifted and high achieving set who will actually create jobs for those below them). Some are announced as passing the requirements… but no distinction. The last lot are the folks who took enough hours and showed up enough but didn’t pass the freakishly easy graduation test. They are announced as having a “certificate of completion.” Everyone claps and goes “ooooooh” just like they do for the distinguished crowd.

Each group wears a different color too. That way everyone gets to walk but the kids who actually accomplished something worthwhile are recognized for that.

By flipper

October 19, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this

I would suggest that the “lazy retards,” as you call them, do a better job of cleaning my house and mowing my lawn. They can’t even seem to get that right.

Maybe they could go to mowing and scrubbing school. They could get a mowploma.

Just get them the heck out of the way of the kids that are trying to achieve.

By Lee

October 19, 2007 5:18 PM | Link to this

Aw he11. What’s the use.

New rule. Anybody who attends school for twelve years, let’s give them a choice — diploma or a quick pick lottery ticket.

Move’em on out because we need the trailer space.

By BCR

October 19, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this

Flipper, how do you know that all of them are not trying to achieve???? That is my only gripe. You people are assuming that all these kids are not trying their best. You know what happens when you assume. Now, if the rules are that they can’t walk, fine, I have no problem with. The problem I have is when people like you and the majority of these other bloggers think that all these kids that aren’t passing are slackers. My God I sincerely hope your children or grandchildren don’t have this problem. You people think you are so much better, it’s sickening.

By El Bubba

October 19, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

Cuba does a the best job in the Western Hemisphere. We should have a look at their school system.

By catlady

October 19, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this

The GHGT is passable by all but those with significant mental retardation. Learning disabled kids get appropriate accomodations. What we have now is “learning” which is not, in fact, learned. The GHGT tries to appraise a student’s general knowledge and skills after 11 years of “passing the test”. In order to do it, you must have actually LEARNED the material, as opposed to remembered it for a few weeks in order to pass the EOCT or a teacher-made test. Learning means MASTERY. Until students come up against the GHGT (a relatively low level test that can be taken over and over again), they have merely had to “learn” stuff for a short time—not really LEARNING (ie, incorporating it into your being permanently). Example of learning: you touch a hot stove top. After that, no matter how long it is before you see another hot stove top, you don’t forget that a hot stove top burns you.

Our quest for psuedo success (let’s dumb down the material until the child is successful) has led us to an incorrect definition of learning. Something learned is mastered, and cannot be taken away by the passage of time or nervousness or anything else. Which is why I can still do high school algebra and Latin. I LEARNED it, rather than just studied it for a test. Heaven knows I haven’t practiced much of it in the intervening 40 years!

By catlady

October 19, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this

You people are assuming that all these kids are not trying their best.

BCR, I am not sure that that is what folks are assuming. However, trying your best does not mean you always succeed. And we are talking about successfully mastering the material required, not just trying to do it.

By BCR

October 19, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

Well, I guess you are right catlady, because you really can’t get much dumber than the State of Georgia, now can you? So yeah, all these kids that can’t pass parts of the test MUST be mentally challenged. I mean, what is Georgia ranked in education, 48th, 49th? So, I will be quiet now, you have proved your point. For the people who made derogatory statements about these children, you must feel real big making fun of a mentally challenged person. Good Job.

By catlady

October 19, 2007 5:57 PM | Link to this

One other comment, BCR, and then I will hush. I want a surgeon who has MASTERED surgery, not just one who tries hard. I applaud folks who try hard in medical school, but I don’t want them to be recognized as doctors, at least not for me!

Actually, I don’t see the harm in letting non-graduating folks, be they special ed or whatever participate in graduation ceremonies. The ceremony should be called a graduation and completion ceremony, perhaps. In our county everyone marches and no one that I know of cares. All the parents have eyes for only their child anyway. My honor grad kids’ achievements were not diminished by the students whose mental retardation is so profound that they cannot even speak or be toilet trained crossing the stage. I was proud of everyone on those nights for whatever they had accomplished. As were all parents, I would think.

By David

October 19, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this

OK. Let the certificate recipients attend the ceremony. BUT, have all diploma recipients go first and IDENTIFY them as diploma recipients. Then have the certificate recipients go next and have them IDENTIFIED as certificate recipients. The event program could even spell out the difference of the two documents and the requirements necessary to attain the respective diploma or certificate. The documents could also be used to declare the level by being labeled as a Diploma or a Certificate-of-Completion.

By SET

October 19, 2007 6:01 PM | Link to this

BCR: Tell us something about yourself so that we can understand where your viewpoints come from.

By online reader

October 19, 2007 6:02 PM | Link to this

What we need to celebrate is when our children graduate from college. My friends in Europe cannot get over how much celebration we put into a highschool graduation. Over there is is just part and parcel of life. College is the big milestone. Maybe we need to rethink how much we celebrate something as mundane as highschool graduation. I mean after all, everyone does it…..

By finished

October 19, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this

I’m a teacher and a parent. Over the last five years the expectations for our students have gotten lower and lower while people in high places talk rigor, relevance and high expectations. Actually the expectations are much lower. A high school diploma today doesn’t mean a whole lot. Check out how many kids are taking remedial courses. I’ve watched as teachers have been forced to keep pathetic excuses for students in their classrooms. These same teachers were told to allow the students to make up assignments they refused to do or failed miserably. Attendance policies are meaningless. We must increase that graduation rate at any price. Tracking of students is disappearing. Students that care are sitting in classes w/disruptive students that don’t value education. These pathetic excuses for graduation ceremonies have occured across the state for many years. The school systems try to keep it quiet. Teachers are beyond frustrated. My child is practically ignored because the teachers have to spend all of their time working with kids that do not meet the standards. My child exceeds so she can just coast along reviewing work from the previous grade while others catch up. This is what is really going on in our public schools. As a teacher and parent I have decided to try private school. I’m sure it will not be perfect, but it has to be better than the public system.

By El Bubba

October 19, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this

Do they have to wear a uniform to graduation?

By mmm

October 19, 2007 6:59 PM | Link to this

Back in the 80’s I moved from one state to another during high school and because of the sequencing of classes I wound up having enough credits to graduate in three years. (One state had 7 periods, the other 6, and they let me study and take the civics exams without having to sit in the class with the freshmen for a whole semester.) My Dad petitioned the School Board to let me out as I already had exhausted the end of the Math and Science offerings. The board gave me my diploma with the condition that I not be allowed to walk with the other graduates, so technically I never graduated from high school.

I assure you that this did not scar me for life. The college diploma is the one that means something to me.

By WFC

October 22, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this

The “can they walk” issue has racial overtones in Fulton County schools. Retired 20-year Fulton veteran teacher here. Far too many African-American students would be banned from “graduation” ceremonies if the “certificates” were not allowed to walk. Gotta play the game!

By DB

October 22, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

Commencement exercises celebrate the ending of one phase of a person’s life and the beginning of another. I don’t see a problem with all the kids participating in commencement exercises — they are all moving from one part of their life to another. Some of them are doing it with more success than others, perhaps, or with a different goal, but whether or not a kid has completed a certificate or a diploma, it’s still a time to look forward to the next phase of their lives and celebrate what got them to that point. Diversity isn’t just in skin color, folks — it’s also in abilities and aptitudes.