AJC.com > Blogs > Get Schooled > Archives > 2007 > October > 17 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USTax Dollars, Land Deals And School Board Secrets
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
How would you like a large developer to purchase property in your neighborhood without knowing until after the deal was done?
Well, that’s just what Gwinnett County Board of Education members have been doing for more than 30 years as they use tax dollars to buy up acreage for new schools.
According to today’s story by Gwinnett education reporter Laura Diamond, in just the past year the school system has spent $39.8 million on 130.6 acres of land for future public schools — all in secret deals that weren’t revealed until well after ink on the sales contracts dried.
Carole Boyce, the vice chairwoman of Gwinnett’s education board, told Laura the school system gets better deals when negotiating without community involvement.
“We do value public input but we don’t want to slow the process down,” she said. “The longer we wait, the more prices go up. We are very cognizant of trying to get the best piece of property at the best price. We need a lot of land and we need it quickly.”
Apparently, other local governments don’t have the same problem. County commissioners in Cobb, Cherokee, Clayton, DeKalb, Douglas, Fulton — even Gwinnett — all vote in public when they buy land.
So you tell me: Are closed-door land deals really the best negotiating strategy for local school systems or are they just a sign of arrogance on the part of elected officials?
Comments
By catlady
October 17, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this
Public money should be spent in public.
The reason it is not open to scrutiny is not because of inflating the cost of the deal: it is because of the threat of ending the deals if the public is in the know.
By JustMe
October 17, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this
I don’t understand the big deal. This happens every day in every community - and not just with school system money.
Coca-cola secretly bought up many lots of land in downtown Atlanta. This was not revealed until after the purchases and the papers were filed in the court house.
If big companies do it, why not school systems?
The reason it is done is to prevent artifical inflation of the property. If someone knew that a school system needed their small lot of land for a school, they might double the price. Does this make sense for the tax payers?
By Koz
October 17, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this
Big companies spend our money that we give them voluntarily - so they can do what they want.
School Systems are spending our money that we give them because its the law - they need to keep us informed.
By V for Vendetta
October 17, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this
Sticky situation here, but I think JustMe is right on cue. A school system as large as Gwinnett is constantly playing catch up; they might not be serving the public interest by taking a long amount of time to close a deal that will lead to the building of a new school.
That having been said, there is still a bit more communication that could be taking place. I don’t really trust any of the metro school boards, so I would like a bit more disclosure on the subject. Unfortunately, in this case, I don’t think you can have it both ways. I can’t imagine anyone voting against it if it were made public, but there could be some issues as JustMe pointed out. Sticky situation …
By JustMe
October 17, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this
Koz -
No duh!
But, don’t you want your tax dollars spent wisely? If Cobb made a big deal of wanting to build a school near the mall, don’t you think that every land owner in the area would suddenly increase their asking price?
Think for for minute.
By SET
October 17, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this
Of course large land deals must be made in secret. To do otherwise is counterproductive. Labor negotiations are not done on live TV either. Same reason.
By Koz
October 17, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this
That’s what eminent domain is for. Allows us to pay FMV for land instead of inflated rates.
By JustMe
October 17, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this
Bridget -
I’ll share this only one more time and then I won’t mention it again - promise.
Won’t you please have blogs on real issues in education that matter? So often, the blog topics are mundane or worse they confuse people with something that is rather straight forward (like today’s topic). Why do you insist on these types of topics when there are so very many other education topics critical in the State of GA? Examples?
Why do (and how do) administrators get away with piling ridiculous extra work (like hall duty, lunch duty, morning duty, etc.) on teachers when we are not security guards? Shouldn’t the teacher’s job, especially in GA, be spent 100% of the time on creating great lessons and finding the best way to teach students?
How can school systems invade a classroom and tell a teacher exactly what and how and when to teach, and then turn around and blame the teacher when the students don’t learn?
Why is it that schools always seem to come up with funding to buy great food (especially for big wigs) and yet never have any funding to fix the necessary stuff (like air conditioning, window blinds, etc.) unless it is on the TV news?
I could continue to list more, but don’t you get the picture?
By SET
October 17, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this
Bridget - JustMe has a point, let’s have more blog issues on life in the classrooms.
What about Jena 6? What about policy questions such as having sex offender children register with the school district and the teachers notified who they are? What about the merits of having criminal and gang children’s presence disclosed to the teachers under any circumstances? Should teachers be made aware when the schools have notice that parents are sex offenders, criminals, in prison, gang members, etc.? What about communicable disease control in the schools - should teachers be posted on VD stats for their school by the Public Health Service - and related in-service training (believe me, you will get a new appreciation about not rubbing your eyes after touching some of these kids!).
In my experience PHS and the schools know perfectly well they have a growing problem and they’re not telling the teachers - or anyone else with direct contact with the kids - a thing. One can argue that as far as the Educrats are concerned the teachers and the students can just suffer the consequences before the Educrats will admit all is not well.
What about that YouTube video of the FL 15 year old girl being Peppersprayed resisting arrest? Imagine what she probably did to her teachers before encountering that nice police officer? Should teachers be issued Pepperspray?
On a less upsetting note - What new uses are the schools making of the Internet for Parent Teacher communication? How about computer-assisted roll taking? Parent notification of absenses?
Let’s have some more fun with this blog and hear what things are like in the classrooms!
By posterchild
October 17, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this
JustMe:
Amen to the invading classrooms comment. I could talk about that all day.
By SET
October 17, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this
Koz: While the schools can seize private property whenever they want, it’s very expensive to go through the (jury trial) litigation to determine the price that must be paid later for the land. It’s always cheaper to negotiate up front to buy land. Eminent Domain is not a viable primary method of assembling land parcels - at least not around CA where the lawyers are hungry and pricey - and know exactly how to run up their bills.
It’s necesary to do assemble municipal land deals in secret until the public vote to close the deal.
By V for Vendetta
October 17, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this
JustMe,
I think your “extra work” topic is an especially valid one. This is something few people realize, but admins take for granted — the fact that teachers are often used as a “captive” workforce. Why is it our duties seem so detailed and specific when it comes to what happens in the classroom, but so nebulous and “convenaint” when it comes to what we are asked to do outside of the classroom?
I was not hired to be a security guard. I was not hired to take inventory. I was not hired to CARRY LARGE HEAVY THINGS.
And yet, I find myself doing all of these things on a nearly weekly basis. Oh, and sometimes I teach.
By Bridget Gutierrez
October 17, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this
Hi, JustMe and SET.
I think y’all have been here long enough to know that I also write about what’s going on inside schools, not just about policy debates.
Take a look at the past three days. We’ve talked about what’s happening in science classes, why there aren’t enough playgrounds anymore and the conundrum of how to motivate students.
I ran a guest blog from a teacher two weeks ago on the lighter side of school life and have another guest blog from a teacher coming tomorrow. If there’s an issue you’re burning to discuss or a topic you think we haven’t touched on, you can always try being a guest blogger yourself.
I use guest blogs for many reasons, but one is so that we can get an uninhibited view directly from those in the classrooms. Of course, I’ll never be able to provide that myself. I’m not a teacher.
By Old School
October 17, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this
Just Me and “V”: I wasn’t hired to repair table saws, drill presses, or shapers but I did just that when I was teaching shop. I continue to repair the drafting machines and other equipment in my lab because sometimes it just needs to be done. I’m still the only female instructor on staff with a well-stocked toolbox and the skills to use it. And I really don’t mind because my class would grind to a halt if I had to wait on Maintenance to come do the repairs. I can even do some basic stuff to my computers and printers but call in the cavalry when it’s over my head. There’s no telling how much money I’ve saved our school system by doing the repairs myself.
My gripe is some of the after school hours extras I’m expected to do without compensation like overnight conferences/competitions with the extra responsibility of students (my housing, meals and mileage are reimbursed but my TIME should be worth something…especially when it’s a weekend!)
By TinaTeach
October 17, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this
-How about better food for our students? I have seen schools systems that spend the same amount of money as mine and have great food, yet my school system has some of the worst, least nutritional food I’ve tasted!
How about a topic dealing with tutorial time? My district has it built into the day at the high school level with each school approaching it a different way. What are other schools doing?
What about the loss of French/Spanish/German/Latin requirements to graduate (Even if it is still required at the college level)? Do we want our children to be monolingual citizens? Will it drive more kids to go out of state for college?
-What does everyone think about the bill that passed that allows people with masters, doctorate, and juris doctorates to teach without the educational training by simpley passing the GACE in their field?
These are topics I would love to see discussed.
As far as land deals go… I think that sometimes closed door meetings are needed to protect the school boards dealings and to protect the amount of money spent in these dealings (granted sometimes it is also done to manipulate the money being spent). This is why we have elections for school board members. Vote for who you trust and a closed deal shouldn’t be a big deal. If they break your trust, they lose your vote.
By Doc
October 17, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this
Let say I tell you I plan to buy som acres of land nad it falls through so I plan to buy some other property which falls through and so forth and so on until finally I purchase the land. how important is the land I was intending to purchase but never did? Deals are not deals and the public dont not need to know what is planned to happend but only what happens. They school board have thousands of plans in which only 10% will be finalized. would you like to hear about all them?
By Doc
October 17, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this
Let say I tell you I plan to buy som acres of land nad it falls through so I plan to buy some other property which falls through and so forth and so on until finally I purchase the land. how important is the land I was intending to purchase but never did? Deals are not deals and the public dont not need to know what is planned to happend but only what happens. They school board has thousands of plans in which only 10% will be finalized. would you like to hear about all them?
By Lee
October 17, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this
The fact remains that these school systems are spending taxpayers money and as such, the public has a right to be informed.
There are processes one can use to alleviate concerns about price gouging or undercutting the school system. One example is to purchase an option on the property until the school board has had an opportunity to receive public input. Then, the school board can simply exercise the option (buy) or let it lapse (not buy).
The golden rule is whenever elected officials say “trust me”, it should raise all kinds of red flags for you.
By jim d
October 17, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this
OH HORSEFEATHERS!!
The reason these deals are done behind closed doors is because jalvin wants it that way and no ones had the balls to challenge him in court.
Besides if they were to have been made public they wouldn’t have been able to build a school between two toxic landfills.
You folks that aren’t ion Gwinnett and haven’t followed this story for the past 6 years don’t really have a damn clue. Hopefully voters in Gwinnett will and say hell no to the bond issue and un-elect this arrogant BOE that assumes they know whats best for the public. Regardless of the polls indicating voters want a change in this asinine policy, WE WANT OPEN GOVERNMENT. And that my friends is never a bad thing.
By Ernest
October 17, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this
I lean towards SETs comments at 1:27p. If we want to procure land at the best price, some negotiations should be done behind closed doors. The final vote should be done in public. As TinaTeach says, if I feel my elected officials are not being ‘fiscally responsible’ with my money, I can work to vote them out of office at election time.
By jim d
October 18, 2007 9:21 AM | Link to this
Sorry V, and JM,
But I think this is an appropriate blog topic. Especially since we are talking about the largest school system in the state and one that is about to drop a $7 billion bond issue on taxpayers for an approval.
Yet their transparency in how they currently handle our tax dollars is sorely lacking. They stand to gain measuarbly should they be able to convince taxpayers they have nothing to hide. I would go so far as to even suggest they post their check ledger (a matter of public record) on the website so taxpayers could watch how their money is being spent.
By jim d
October 19, 2007 8:43 AM | Link to this
Has anyone in Gwinnett ever asked himself or herself why properties around a new school get developed a year or so before the BOE announces the purchase of the property?
If it didn’t happen so frequently one might assume it is merely coincidence
By terry
October 19, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this
jim d!
Here Here!! Public School systems most definitely should be Transparent. After all they are a public entity..
When will Gwinnett post those check ledgers— now that ought to be interesting.
Matter of Fact— every principle ought to put up their own budget on each school’s website - so we can see what they really do with money.