Get Schooled

By Lori

September 21, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this

The problem I have with “No Child Left Behind” is that also “No Child can get ahead”. Yes we need to teach every child, but as a society we also need to have the resouces available to push our gifted to achieve a higher potential.

By jim d

September 21, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this

Bridget,

Here’s a couple of cons to start you out.

Teacher Qualification Standards

NCLB sets very high teacher qualifications by requiring new teachers to possess one (or often more) college degrees in specific subjects and to pass a battery of proficiency tests. Existing teachers must also pass proficiency tests.

These new requirements have caused major problems in obtaining qualified teachers in subjects (special education, science, math) and areas (rural, inner cities) where schools districts already have teacher shortages.

The Bush 2007 proposal allows districts to circumvent teacher contracts to transfer teachers to failing and poorly-performing schools .

Failure to Address Reasons for Lack of Achievement

At its core, NCLB faults schools and curriculum for student failure by not looking at other factors , including: class size, old and damaged school buildings, hunger and homelessness, and lack of health care.

By Tray

September 21, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

NCLB is worthless. The answer to all education problems are the parents. Parents must be involved for their children to think it’s important. Most kids think of school as a place to hang out and be with friends/play sports/screw around. Very few kids have the self motivation to realize school is important. I bet behind almost every failing kid, you ‘ll find a failing parent. Kids should not be allowed to drop out of school, first off. Why give someone that option, it only opens the doors to a darker future. Where i lived, if i chose to drop out, i also had to move out. What 17/18 year old can provide for themselves? My parents told me that dropping out was an adult decision, and if i were capable of making that decision, I was capable of supporting myself. Well, duh! I stayed in school! No matter what laws this president or future presidents make, education is still up to the parents, plain and simple!

By jim d

September 21, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

Right you are Lori,

The stated goal of NCLB is the achievement of 100 percent proficiency for all students and the elimination of the achievement gap between minority and white students. The law’s target is to reach these goals by 2014.

Realistically the only way to achieve this lofty goal is at the expense of our gifted kids by dumbing down curriculum.

By jim d

September 21, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this

Too, NCLB may place sanctions on schools, that are actually achieving some pretty remarkable accomplishments, due to things beyond their control.

By Tray

September 21, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

Lori and Jim, you’re both right in my opinion as well. I mean, how many people actually go to college to become a history teacher as opposed to something else? I remember almost every history class i had in high school was taught by an athletics coach (hell, one coach had to teach us about how Wesley Snipes started his acting career. Let me tell you, that’s one history lesson that hasn’t helped at all in my adult life!)

By Truth Filter

September 21, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

One positive, to me, is that NCLB’s made schools deal with data: I think the use of data is powerful if only that it makes people look at the achievement gap on a regular basis.

On the negative side, I think that it’s unfair to students who don’t speak English or have a disability — and unfair to their schools. And there’s too much “labeling.”

I’d vote for keeping NCLB but with some major changes.

By Jeff

September 21, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

Bridget:

Until there is a similar law holding parents to just as high standards as schools, there will be no true educational revolution.

Oh wait, parents would be complaining that it violates their civil liberties.

Guess what? NCLB violates the civil liberties of EVERYONE involved!

By Cobb parent

September 21, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

Amen Lori!!! I couldn’t have said it any better!

By WhatWillBridgetDo?

September 21, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

Maureen Downey is either a complete moron or a complete liar when she says the battle against “performance pay” is over. It will never be over until you A) give teachers the authority needed to maintain the integrity of the learning environment and B) assure the integrity of the testing environment by assuring teachers their students’ scores aren’t being compared to students’ scores in schools where cheating is allowed.

See Maureen can’t talk about either of those in her position as public relations shill for Beverly Hall and the Atlanta Public Schools (she has friends among APS personnel; a little factoid she doesn’t share when she writes her PR pieces for APS)

She can’t talk about the discipline, because she would then have to explain why the AJC editorial board has been silent about the falsified discipline data and the documented cases of physical assault on APS teachers with no consequences to the student (if a child even looks at an administrator however, it’s an entirely different story.)

She also can’t talk about teachers demanding the integrity of the testing environment be uniform throughout all schools if their students’ scores are to be compared to others, because then she has to explain why the AJC said nothing about a widespread, massive cheating scandal that Paul Donsky uncovered at APS (and then was forced to shut down with no follow up reports by higher ups at the AJC)

See Maureen, it’s about being treated with respect and integrity, something you have never once advocated when it comes to teachers. (That’s why you never written an editorial in support of teachers having the right to maintain the integrity of the learning environment in regard to discipline.)

How quickly you would change your tune if you had to go in anonymously to one of the APS schools; not one of the atypical Buckhead schools, but one of the APS inner city schools.

I would love that, but in my heart I can’t wish to subject students to the sight of a woman, standing in front of them in a puddle of urine, sobbing uncontrollably “Why am I not getting any support for discipline?” the first time an APS administrator walks a student back into her classroom with five minutes after the student physically assaults her and proceeds to lecture the now sadder but wiser Downey on how it was her fault because of her “classroom management”.

On the other hand, maybe it would be for the greater good of the students if that’s what it takes to FINALLY get an honest editorial out of Downey about the abysmal teaching conditions at APS and the lack of intergity on the part of Hall when it comes to dealing with cheating scandals and falsified discipline data.

By Jeff

September 21, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

Another detriment is the skyrocketing numbers of cases of unreported or undealt-with assaults, both student on student and student on faculty/ staff.

Because NCLB focuses on attendance, and particularly being IN CLASS, OSS and ISS use has fallen dramatically, while at the same time students are realizing this and becoming more and more violent.

(As I have said before, I have the scars on my body from Randolph to prove this!)

By jim d

September 21, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

And here’s a whole shopping list to choose from.

Inadequate funding

Punishment before capacity building

Diversion of funding to home-schooling, corporate schools

Packaging over content

Top down mandates

Too little focus on social causes of poor performance

Violation of separation of church and state

Violation of state rights

Just in case you haven’t figured it out yet—I think NCLB is by far the dumbest law passed in my lifetime.

By Tray

September 21, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

On top of that, not many people want to be teachers because the money is not there! In my opinion, the three most underpaying jobs in our nation are firefighters, cops, and teachers! I’d gladly pay a little more taxes to ‘up’ teachers pay!

JEFF my setiments exactly, no matter what laws they put in place, it’s ultimately the parents who make learning important to their kids!

By Tray

September 21, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

And i do agree that teacher need authority back in schools. Too many times students lie about what teachers do to get out of their problems. hell, I’d be scared to teach at some schools without a loaded gun in my desk drawer! The students misbehave at schools mecause mommy and daddy don’t discipline them at home. I think teachers should be allowed to smack a student on the face for smarting off, maybe they’ll do it less because other students will make fun of them for it-after all, to a teenager, image is everything!

By jim d

September 21, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

Tray,

The courts have ruled that the schools hold the authority “In loco parentis”. Which in fact transfers that responsibility to the schools while the children are there.

By holdingAJCaccountable

September 21, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this

Truth Filter,

The “data” is about as reliable as the “documentation” from one of those Nigerian emails that says you are an heir to $25 million dollars.

Don’t you remember Rod Paige, Bush’s first education secretary and poster child for NCLB?

It was Paige’s “Houston Miracle” that Bush used to propel NCLB into law. Then it came out that at least eighteen schools cheated-and all but one had a drop in test scores the next year when they knew they’d be under scrutiny. And Paige quietly resigned at the end of Bush’s first term

If people think this isn’t happening all over the country, and will get exponentially worse when NCLB demands that 100% percent of students pass or the school is a “failure” they are either woefully or blissfully unaware.

One hundred percent. Think about that. 1,999 students could pass the NCLB tests required in high school, go on get a perfect score on the SAT and get accepted into Harvard, and one crystal meth-head, in school only to fulfill the terms of his probation, fails the test and the entire school is labeled a failure?!

Yeah, that’s a great law; just needs a little “tweaking” right?

By jim d

September 21, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

NCLB has in fact deprived the States of more things graanted them constitutionaly as well as stripping Teachers, parents and students alike of more liberties than any other single peice of legislation that I can recall.

By V for Vendetta

September 21, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

Yes, one of the major problems with NCLB is the “glass ceiling” imposed upon gifted learners, not to mention the overall shabby treatment they seem to receive in comparison to the all-important special needs students. I’m certainly not saying special learners or at-risk students don’t need recognition and additional support, but people also must remember that there is a majority of students that sometimes get the shaft at the expense of the minority.

Also, the data-driven evaluation process MUST stop. As jimd said earlier, there are myriad schools that are doing wonderful things for education, but do not make AYP based on circumstances beyond their control. That’s completely unacceptable.

At my school, one of the “good” schools in metro Atlanta, the number of minority students (specifically Hispanics), has been rising over the past few years. Because of our growing ESOL program, we are now in danger of missing AYP despite the fact that we are consistently one of the top-performing schools in the state in regards to SAT and ACT scores, scholarships, Govenor’s Honors, AP exams, and state-mandated BS tests. I don’t think I need to explain what’s wrong with that picture.

NCLB needs to go, or needs to be completely revamped. Also, just a personal gripe, as a line-straddling voter who tends to vote based on issues and policies as opposed to party lines and religion (imagine that), it bothers me when people heap the blame all on the Bush administration for NCLB. I’m not saying it’s not their fault, that monster that is NCLB has grown far worse on their watch, but the roots of NCLB began during the Clinton-era.

A personal plea to all of you foot-washing southerners out there: next year please vote with your head, not based on your religion or along party lines. Be open-minded and try to make this world a better place. You’re setting an example for your children, remember, and I am always shocked at how many high school students I have that say things like “all Democrats are gay” or “all Republicans religious nuts.” Both statements are ignorant.

We can NEVER change something as insidious and downright silly as NCLB unless we look at the big picture and vote with our heads. Choose wisely.

By Jeff

September 21, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

jim:

“violation of separation of church and state”? Constitutionality argument aside (it isn’t in the Constitution), how does NCLB violate this non-Constitutional principle??

By WhatWillBridgetDo?

September 21, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

You have slammed me for being critical of Bridget (and the AJC editorial board) yet my criticism is centered on the very issue you just posted about!.

Namly, Bridget and the AJC editorial board’s refusal to fully report on the discipline problems in APS and the underreporting (or outright falsification) of the discipline data.

In other words, you have blasted me for highlighting the lack of reporting on, as you put it “skyrocketing numbers of cases of unreported or undealt-with assaults, both student on student and student on faculty/ staff.”

What gives?

By Teacher, Too

September 21, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this

It’s a farce. My school “failed” because we missed one indicator- sped math. We met the other 13 indicators. So, now we’re a “failing” school?

Ridiculous!

At the risk of sounding repetitive, when teachers try to raise their teaching standards and hold kids accountable, parents object. There is always an excuse for why their child couldn’t do the work, it’s too much work, on and on and on.

NCLB holds teachers and admins accountable, but where is the accountability for students and parents?

And, finally, kids are passed along even when they fail the CRCT- a minimum criterion-reference test. Why are they passed along? It means more and more stress on the teachers and admins to whom they are passed.

I’m all for accountability. I admit we have some horrible teachers who just want to show movies. Get rid of them. But also realize that accountability is needed by all parties, especially students, and not just the teachers and admins.

By Jeff

September 21, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this

V:

Dr. Ron Paul is the only candidate that is for LESS government involvement in our lives.

Therefore, Ron Paul is the ONLY name you need to know when voting for President.

Hope For America indeed.

By jim d

September 21, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

Bridget,

To put it in simple terms, the biggest problem I see with NCLB is that

IT JUST SUCKS!!

By Jeff

September 21, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

WWBD:

Ever hear of the “boy who cried wolf”? Or even “Chicken Little”?

You run the risk of becoming - if you haven’t already become - background noise, no longer relevant to the conversation. You are a single issue poster, and you post on your issue no matter the topic at hand.

Me, yes, I’ve been through Hades and High Water in teaching, and I’m glad I’m out. But I only bring up the violence and what needs to be done about it when the topic calls for it. If the topic isn’t school violence related, I tend to stay away from mentioning it unless someone else brings it up. Therefore, while it is a major issue with me, I don’t fall so far into the background noise, I remain someone to at least pay a BIT of attention to.

By The Village Speaks

September 21, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

Look at the state of our educational system now and let’s seriously ask ourselves if NCLB is effective. Sure, it may be reauthorized but is Congress going to actually fund it this time? Nope.

Instead of actually taking the time to educate our students, NCLB causes school districts and individual schools to find ways to try to manipulate the statistics so that they won’t find their names on “the list”.

Anytime you inact legislation to improve the educational achievement of our students but you don’t hold the parents or the students accountable, it will fail. It’s a combined effort.

What’s Georgia going to do now that we’ve passed the one diploma legislation when our drop-out rate increases and we’re held accountable by NCLB?

I’m an educator and I become frustrated watching us continue to chase our tails.

By Jeff

September 21, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

jim:

When defending “in loco parentis”, know that not everyone shares your parenting philsophy.

Do you want teachers to be professionals or parents? Pick one, and only one.

By MBW

September 21, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

I say Mend it, Don’t End it

PROS: 1) Schools who routinely fail our students can and should be punished. It should not be acceptable for ANY school to continue in this way with no consequences.

2) It prevents schools from sweeping the under-performing groups at their school under the rug.

3) When funded correctly, it provides some assistance for schools that struggle.

CONS 1) It hurts the arts, sciences and social studies. 2) There is no incentive to move gifted/high performing studings forward. 3) States are writing lousy tests and constantly lower the bar to make themselves look better. 4) States often do not fully enforce the penalties called for under the law when schools fail.

By jim d

September 21, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this

Well jeff,

For a long time, this country operated with a sense that there should be a clear line separating church and state with regard to education. Given the religious prosecution suffered by many of the founding people back in Europe, tolerance was thought to be well served by keeping the government out of the churches and the churches out of the schools. That seems to be changing as the current administration lays out a welcome mat and starts to divert public funds to faith-based providers:

Somewhere back in December of 02, President Bush Unveiled New Guidance Empowering Faith-Based and Community Groups to Provide Extra Academic Help to Low-Income Students by announcing several steps that would strengthen his administration’s compassion agenda by making it easier for America’s faith-based and community groups to work with the federal government to help the nation’s neediest. One important step taken by the U.S. Department of Education was the adoption of guidance for the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 that actually ensured that faith-based and community organizations were eligible to provide supplemental educational services under the new law. And in June of 02, the Supreme Court approved faith-based charter schools in Cleveland, Ohio, opening the door to the public funding of schooling by religious groups. Central to the decision was the argument that parental choice somehow negated the issue of church/state separation.

While the impact of the Cleveland decision is minor at this point in time, the long term prospects for the privatization of the educational system are now quite promising for those who have been fighting for that shift for several decades. The precedent has been set. The road is paved. A few test cases have rolled down that road successfully and the convoy cannot be too far behind.

Remaining obstacles to the convoy - state constitutional restrictions against public funding of church schools - may find themselves under great pressure during the next few years as NCLB opens the door to faith-based supplemental educational services. The present composition of the Supreme Court seems sympathetic to this shift in national policy and is unlikely to slow the change.

We can argue the contitutionality of separation at another time.

By MBW

September 21, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

MYTH:-Local control is always a good thing.

TRUTH: It’s only good if you have competent people running the place.

MYTH: More funding will solve our schools’ problems.

TRUTH: New computers and new buildings never taught a student ANYTHING…only quality teaching does. You could have class outside in a tent and still get the job done if you know what you’re doing.

By Lee

September 21, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this

Until school systems address their core deficiencies, you will always have NCLB (or some other piece of equally bad legislation).

Have we forgotten how schools were (and still are):

• Passing students from grade to grade who could not do the work?

• Graduating functional illiterates?

• Creating bloated bureaucracies that take money and resources away from the core mission of a school.

• Failing to maintain a safe learning environment for our students?

• Transforming our schools into perverse, social experimentation lab.

I could go on and on. You get the point.

By jim d

September 21, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

I chooes professionals. I only bring “in loco parentis” to the table as it is the authorizing legality that I constantly hear from teachers as to there authority. When in reality along with that authority a certain a specific responsibility exists that teachers seem to want to place on parents. Teachers can’t have it both ways either.

By Jeff

September 21, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this

jim:

a) Faith-based or not, they are another valid business. After all, Chick-Fil-A is “faith-based”. (As was Walmart when Sam Walton was in charge. Now that his kids have taken it over, not so much.)

b) As SET I’m sure will argue, it can be said that for HUNDREDS of years, “faith-based” education was the ONLY education ANYONE got. Indeed, it was the foundation (if not the ONLY) education of the Founding Fathers.

c) Technically, government is supposed to be NEUTRAL to religion. Until 02, government, in education, was ANTAGONISTIC to religion. THAT is truly “unconstitutional”, and THAT IS in the Constitution.

By WhatWillBridgetDo?

September 21, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

I was at a coffeehouse with wi-fi access a while back. Guy next to me was engaged in conversation about moving his family down from North Carolina.

I just had to interject myself into the conversation. Had a nice chat, implored him to check out Get Schooled on the coffeehouse computer. End of story.

Until about a month later; ran into him again. He had decided not to move his two kids into the APS district.

If I had an even infintesimal part of saving two children from academic genocide at APS, it’s worth it.

If even one teacher reads this who is considering APS, and as a result does not subject his/her career to a torrent of abuse and disrespect, it’s worth it.

In that way the blogsphere is just like teaching: you may not save the masses, but if you can save one it’s worth it.

You have to remember while there are “regulars” who may wish to “tune out” there are occasional readers who may see a post on the issue for the first time.

Again, just like teaching: NO delusions of grandeur. But if you can reach one it’s worth it.

PS My post today is related to NCLB. You yourself brought the discipline issue and the chronic underreporting. How do you think they get away with it, especially in Atlanta? The media doesn’t report it (or more accurately doesn’t FOLLOW THROUGH)

It’s about maintaining the integrity of the learning environment, thus it directly relates to today’s topic.

By decaturparent

September 21, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

in lieu of retyping essentially the same thing, I am including below most of what I sent to Ms. Downy via email in response to her piece. I edited it some so that it makes sense in this context.

“Ms. Downey, thank you for your work on the NCLB editorial this week. It was well written, but simplistic. I believe that your view of NCLB is tainted by your living here in Decatur, a relatively affluent school district that happens to serve a rapidly decreasing number of poor and needy children. It is relatively easy for Decatur schools to make AYP and it gets easier every year. Because of this, we can focus on innovation rather than drill and kill. In addition, we are very blessed to have a remarkably innovative superintendent and a bevy of very highly educated parents who demand that their children receive an appropriate education. In short, we live in an educational Nirvana.

NCLB is a nightmare to our poor minority children. Have you spent much time in an impoverished school using Direct Instuction? Would you allow you child to learn to read with a dog clicker? Have you ever seen a little 7-year-old child puke on her test because she is so nervous? My friend, a teacher, sees it nearly every year. It has even happened here - in Decatur… believe it or not. Have you ever reviewed the inane questions that go into the CRCT’s. I have. They are frequently inaccurate (two correct answers or no correct answers), vague and just plain boring.

Please read the Newsweek article attached which explains the true situation better than I can. Here is the link…. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20895912/site/newsweek/.

NCLB seems good on paper. It looks good from our educational ivory tower here in Decatur. What you see here in Decatur is not what NCLB is about in high poverty areas. The things that we have accomplished here in Decatur have happened in spite of NCLB not because of it. A child’s score on one day on a cheap bubble test tells me absolutely nothing about the school that child attends.”

By Jeff

September 21, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

MBW:

While a computer in and of itself cannot teach anyone anything, I would argue that at least with a state-wide computer-based teaching system (that I have proposed in earlier topics on this blog) would at the MINIMUM ensure that every student is taught the same lesson and at the same level of quality. No more of this “but he had a better teacher!!!” crap.

By Exteacher

September 21, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

There is no way that the best teacher, the best school system, or any other variable can bring a child with an IQ of 80 up to what NCLB is demanding! Note also that Georgia is doing away with the vocational diploma that allows these precious children who lack the mental capacity to pass chemistry, physics, etc. to succeed. I’ve been in the teaching profession, but I am out! I can’t take the garbage from the top down anymore! If I had school age children I would home school them now.

By Jeff

September 21, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

WWBD:

While the gist of your post today is on topic - NCLB sucks because it hides/ increases the amount of school violence - your specific posting once again attacking Bridget/Downey/AJC/APS is truly background noise.

Jim:

Rarely will you find a teacher who wants to be a parent to any child other than their own. What you DO find is teachers who want the authority to control the behavior in their classrooms. As ANY professional does.

By Phog

September 21, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

There is simply no possible way that no child can be left behind.

Special education children top out at fourth or fifth grade level, generally. It’s ridiculous that schools have to attempt to force education on them that they cannot grasp. Besides, what good are the abstract qualities of algebra to a special education student? Once upon a time, the special ed kids were called “trainables.” That should be the only focus, training them in life skills and be productive in some facet.

The influx of foreign-tongued children (down here, Hispanics) also make NCLB unfair. How are we supposed to have a child who can’t speak more than “hello” in English master usage skills within weeks? Impossible.

We’ve had to nearly completely abandon basic skills to teach out of a test prep book in fear that the material will be on the CRCT. This year’s crop of sixth graders can’t read cursive writing, which was a skill I had to learn in third grade. None of them can spell. No one reads for pleasure. Accelerated Reader is another burden that needs to go, though I am at a loss as to how to remedy this generation’s hatred of reading.

The only thing that has saved us from being labeled failing is that our percentage of minorities is low. And we’re technically cheating the system. We installed one of those performance academies at the high school level. We don’t have enough kids enrolled in it to count against us.

Discipline is the main problem in the schools. Once upon a time if a child misbehaved, the parents would back the teachers. Now, the parent - and notice how it’s an increasingly singular ‘parent’ - backs their child. Nothing wrong with single parenthood, but some kids’ heads are almost literally spinning from the confusion of their guardianship.

The Flower Power and later generations wanted to be friends with their children. That’s absolutely killing us. We need parents, not necessarily buddies.

By WhatWillBridgetDo?

September 21, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

DecaturParent: “I believe that your view of NCLB is tainted by your living here in Decatur”

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! And a wee bit nice than saying she’s “either a complete moron or a complete liar”

But when she constantly throws APS teachers under the bus by being no less than a silent co-conspirator in the academic genocide of APS students (by covering up the discipline/cheating scandals) it’s not an unwarranted commentary.

Whether she is woefully, blissfully, or willfully unaware, she is indeed clueless.

By V for Vendetta

September 21, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

jimd - you make an interesting point about the separation of church and state, but you must remember, I teach in a world of “holiday” trees and “December festivities.”

As some may have noticed, I’m not a big fan of organized religion, but this kind of “separation” is just silly. Remember, everyone must agree with everyone at all times. Hmm, that sounds kind of like NCLB: everyone must perform like everyone else, all of the time.

By Susan

September 21, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

One of the huge ways NCLB has hurt students is by demanding all special ed teachers be “highly qualified” in particular subjects. One of the special ed teachers where I teach had taught special ed resource kids for years and was hands down the best pre-alg. teacher they could ever have. To continue to teach a specific subject area requires sp ed teachers to jump through all sorts of hoops. It may mean going back to take classes - even when you have a Master’s Degree and have taught 25 or 30 years. For this teacher, the thing that kept him from being able to continue teaching math was because in college in 1967 he made a D in math. He was told he could take a class and that would make up for the D. He refused - as many others would - and is now teaching social studies in an inclusion class. His replacement doesn’t have special ed certification yet - he will have it by sometime this year - and he’s teaching the math classes. So 30 yrs. of experience and dedication apparently doesn’t count for much - according to NCLB. And this is just ONE way it hurts kids and schools.

By jim d

September 21, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

Jeff, here’s my argument.

A teachers that claims “in loco parentis”, as the authority must claim the responsibilty that goes along with it.

Now as for Chik-fila. Hey man I can decide if I wish to give them my money. Not so with public schools. You are comparing apples to oranges here my friend.

By WhatWillBridgetDo?

September 21, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

It might be background noise to you because you’ve read it before. It might even be background noise to many others, because they have read it before.

But if one teacher or one parent new to this blog (like the guy in the coffeehouse) reads it, and it influences them even infintesimally to avoid the academic genocide that permeates APS it’s worth it.

By Jay

September 21, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this

On the issue of performance-based pay, a lot of teachers complain that there’s no objective way to measure performance and, as a result, they’d be compensated unfairly—some of them making more than they should, some making less. Guess what?! We in the private sector are constantly evaluated via metrics we can’t completely control. Stop whining and accept the fact that performance-based pay will be imperfect but generally effective.

By jim d

September 21, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

Thank you V,

It is a point I feel must be made to combat listening to all the teachers whine when it happens. And mark my words—Privatization of our educational system is exactly where NCLB is leading us. It truly is a shame that all the teachers that “feel good” about religious encroachment into our public schools can’t see the handwriting on the wall.

By Jeff

September 21, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

WWBD:

Look, I’m just trying to help ya out here. It is a lesson I learned long ago: You can have the same point, but discuss it several different ways, and while the point is the same it never gets old. (Take a look at how preachers operate. Their message, at its most basic level, is the same week in and week out. Yet there are THOUSANDS of preachers out there that people NEVER tire of hearing, simply because they get that same basic point out in a variety of ways. They don’t always talk about Hell - though some do more than others. They don’t always talk about Heaven - though some do more than others. They may use the Epistles or the Gospels or the Psalms or the Chronicles or the Books of Law or any of the Prophets, but no matter how they approach it, no matter how they deliver it, the same point is made week in and week out.)

jim:

Ah, but Chick-Fil-A is a major supporter of local schools! (Everything from the Pre-K programs up through and including College Football - Chik-Fil-A Bowl anyone?) Same with Walmart. Same with COUNTLESS other “faith-based” businesses that are among the leaders in their industries, or at least major players in their local economies.

I noted that you completely ignored my comment about the education of the Founding Fathers…

By Jeff

September 21, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this

Jay:

Teachers can’t be given blueberries that a DOG wouldn’t eat and be expected to produce prize-winning blueberry pie…

By holdingAJCaccountable

September 21, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this

Just because YOU have to be might have to be evaluated with “unfair metrics” doesn’t mean that teachers should have to accept it. (It’s not good for teachers, and more importantly, it’s not good for children)

Among many other things, you don’t have to “manage” employees who refuse to work, or will cuss you out (or even worse) with no recourse.

Until you the public are willing to grant the teacher the autority to to discipline your precious little angel, teachers can and WILL effectively oppose the lie called pay for performance.

Now when you the public grows a spine and is willing to give teachers the authority to teach, then by all means let’s talk about pay for performance.

But until that day comes, when the public is willing to put it’s money where it’s mouth is, no. And if you don’t like it, STOP WHINING, and get yourself a teaching job.

By decaturparent

September 21, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

Jay, in your private sector arena, if your performance is being hurt by the fact that you work with a team of employees that can’t or won’t do their share, those employees will eventually be fired and replaced with employees who can/will contribute. If someone on your team assaults you and being assaulted, that employee will be fired immediately. At the very least, if you have team members who aren’t doing the job, you can count on the top members of you team to help you get the job done and just ignore the laggards if you must.

Teachers can’t fire students who can’t/will not do the work. They can’t even get rid of students that assault them. They can over time have them replaces with better students. In fact from what some posts on this stream indicate, teachers can’t even send the poor performers out of the room anymore. They don’t get to pick their students…. well, unless they abandon ship to go to another school.

Performance based pay would be a huge boon to high performing schools b/c teachers will be beating down the doors to work at them. However, it is really going to hurt the most struggling schools.

Hmmmmm…. but the cynical side of me wonders if perhaps that is the purpose of NCLB to begin with…. Naaaah… couldn’t be.

By FCM

September 21, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this

NCLB is just another tool to dumb down America. The Abe Lincolns of today (those studying against the odds) are limited….Letting children work for it is not a bad thing…..Separate the kids by ability….jam as much as we can in their heads….The workforce is competitive people….we are competing on a GLOBAL scale do you think China is doing NCLB? NO I do not advocate putting China’s ‘Humanitarian’ efforts into our system….I do think that we should stress to our children that it is a competive world that is not only ever changing, but also constantly improving itself, performance based incentive not merit of service is stressed…..This ain’t your Daddy’s Market they are going into….so why would we not want what is best?

By WhatWillBridgetDo?

September 21, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

Re: “…it is really going to hurt the most struggling schools…but the cynical side of me wonders if perhaps that is the purpose of NCLB…”

This is why I call Maureen no less than a silent co-conspirator in academic genocide.

By reality

September 21, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

Sad fact is intelligence, athletic ability and other human traits are a bell curve.

Some have incredible ability, most fall in the middle but some are just born stupid or uncoordinated and no amount of teaching, training or the passing of laws is going to change it.

Life is not fair.

By holdingAJCaccountable

September 21, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

Must admit Jay’s ignorance on the realities of teaching had me rushing to post a response. Should have read “Until the public is willing to put its money where its mouth is…”

By jim d

September 21, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

Wasn’t ignoring the question really. I do however feel it is a whole nuther blog subject though.

Just to set the record straight about a couple of our founding fathers and their positions on public education—-

Back in the day, educations specific purpose was as controversial then as it is clouded now. Everyone agreed, in general, that it would so some good.

When the Colony of Massachusetts enacted the Compulsory Education Law in 1642, it was to prevent the young from degenerating into savagery. In other words, it was to preserve civilization and to prepare for the unexpected (Perkinson, 1991). Two hundreds fifty years later, American sociologist Edward Ross concurred that education was an expensive form of police, (Joel Spring, 1989).

The configuration of education had changed as the nation proclaimed its independence in 1776. Political figures and slave owners converged to draw and impose a blueprint supported by the economic and political infrastructures at that time. That is why Ira Shor and Paolo Freire (1987) complained that schools are set up to market official ideas and not to develop critical thinking. In fact, the Bill of General Diffusion of Knowledge introduced by Jefferson in 1779 proposed a three-year free education for all children wherein the most talented (the presumed future leaders) would be selected for further education at public expense (Spring, 1989).

Horace Mann, who has been hailed by many as the father of American education, objected to Jefferson’s idea for fear of creating and nurturing an aristocracy to the demise of the rest of society. Instead, Mann thought of a “Common School for All” that would teach the basic principles of a Republican form of government (Spring, 1989). Unfortunately, Mann’s dream that was more democratic than Jefferson’s was never materialized due to colliding societal interests, namely religion, slavery, and class.

Founded in 1830, a group of the Workman Party realized that Mann’s vision was not democratic enough because “sending children to a common school will not eliminate the difference in social backgrounds. The well-to-do child would return from school to a home richly furnished and full of books, whereas the poor one would return to a shanty barren of books and opportunities to learn, (Spring, 1989). The party favored that all children be removed from their families and placed in State Boarding Schools where they would all live in the same types of rooms, wear the same types of clothing, and eat the same kinds of food. In that milieu only, party members argued, education would truly allow all members of society to begin the race on equal terms.

Going along with the thinking of Henry George, a San Francisco newspaper wrote that “the progress of the few had been built on the poverty of many”. Jacksonian democrats opposed also the Jeffersonian’s philosophy. They regarded colleges and universities as seedbeds of aristocracy. They would, rather, support universal schooling wherein schools would be equalizers instead of being selectors. One can see that throughout the debates by founding fathers on education, nothing had been said about the education of the minorities, particularly the black who were languishing in servitude as the backbone of the United States economy at that time.

By Jeff

September 21, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

jim:

Have you been waiting for me to pose that question, or do you simply have a deep interest in educational history?

By jim d

September 21, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this

Actually Jeff, I guess it’s an accute interest and I do read a lot on our nations history. Education is an important part of our history. Being a bit of a history buff, I do like my histoy to be factual.

By Jeff

September 21, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

Ah, my own interests right now tend to be more specific and esoteric.

For example, the War of 1812 and tracing the nanny-state we currently have back as far as I can. Finishing up a book on the 1912 election that is fairly interesting, in particular as far as big v small government goes. (While none of the 4 were truly in favor of “small” government, TR wanted the vast levels of government that his cousin would introduce, Wilson wanted a slightly smaller government than TR, Taft wanted the size of government to remain as was, and Debs wanted government re-routed, but even more invasive.)

By decaturparent

September 21, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this

Oh my goodness, my last post had so many typos that it didn’t even make sense. That’s what I get for rushing and posting without even reading it. Sorry, below is the same post corrected.

Jay, in your private sector arena, if your performance is being hurt by the fact that you work with a team of employees that can’t or won’t do their share, those employees will eventually be fired and replaced with employees who can/will contribute. If someone on your team assaults you, that employee will be fired immediately. At the very least, if you have team members who aren’t doing the job, you can just ignore them and let the top performers help you get the job done.

Public school teachers do not have these luxuries. Teachers can’t fire students who can’t/will not do the work. They can’t even get rid of students that assault them. They can’t over time have them replaced with better students. In fact from what some posts on this stream indicate, teachers can’t even send the poor performers out of the room anymore. They don’t get to pick their students…. well, unless they abandon ship to go to another school.

Performance based pay would be a huge boon to high performing schools b/c teachers will be beating down the doors to work at them. However, it is really going to hurt the most struggling schools.

Hmmmmm…. but the cynical side of me wonders if perhaps that is the purpose of NCLB to begin with…. Naaaah… couldn’t be.

By watson

September 21, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this

NLCB forces good teaqchers in good schools to teach all the kids in that county or town. Good teacher at good schools are working harder teaching more kids and there is no financial payback for those good teachers. I work at a choice school and I want to leave the profession after 10+ years because i have to work so much harder than teachers at non choice schools due to the face I am teaching their former students.

By jim d

September 21, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

since you’re a bit of a buff too—here’s a fun question for you that is totally off topic.

Who was the only King ever to become President?

By Jay

September 21, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

“Teachers can’t fire students who can’t/will not do the work.”

True, but teachers get to take all the credit when their class succeeds, even if their methods had little to do with it. Like I said, performance-based pay is undoubtedly an imperfect system, but in my opinion, the right teachers will be rewarded more times than not.

By David

September 21, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

I’m a math teacher in the area. Schools are developing “recovery” programs where students get indefinite time and indefinite tries on graded assignments. Fail it and keep taking it until you pass. So when the colleges realize this is how grades are done, they will forget about grades because they mean nothing.

The only way to have 100% graduating by 2012 is to graduate everybody. Then we will meet the law… of course they may not be educated; however the federal funds will keep coming.

By Mark

September 21, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this

NCLB should be adjusted (to say the least) regarding students with disabilities. It asks educators to get all students to grade level performance by 2014. In essence, it is asking educators to cure deafness, blindness, mental retardation, psychiatric disorders, emotional disorders and low IQ…something medical science hasn’t been able to do in over 100 years.

What was Congress thinking when they drafted NCLB????

By V for Vendetta

September 21, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

Hi five jimd for mentioning Paulo Freire! Interesting things to be read by that man …

One of the things I love about this blog, as jimd and Jeff are proving, people always bring some interesting reading to the table!

By David

September 21, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this

Forget your pay for performance. i quit a 85 K job to do something I enjoy… teaching math.

Also, want to find out what the schools are like? Go be a substittue and find out. Don’t make the media appearances where there’s a show. Be a plain substitute teacher in high school.

The politicians and talking heads make most teachers sick. Get an opinion poll of teachers in each state about what is going on and whetehr NCLB is worth the paper it is written on.

By HS Teacher Too

September 21, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

Jeff, you confused me a bit when you said, ““violation of separation of church and state”? Constitutionality argument aside (it isn’t in the Constitution)”

I confess I haven’t made it all the way through today’s blog yet, but what did you mean by that? Surely you aren’t saying there is no place in the Constitution that calls for separation of church and state?

Thanks for any clarification you can give.

By JustMe

September 21, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

IMHO, NCLB has helped (somewhat) the lower level student because from their perspective, the bar has been ‘raised.’

However, NCLB has severely hurt the above average student because from their perspective, the bar has been ‘lowered.’ And this is a major problem with NCLB!!!!

I cannot believe that this Country is sacrificing the best and brightest of the future of our Country that way. My school is reducing the offering of AP classes and Accelerated classes in order to accommodate the NCLB standards - how stupid is that?????

By Melissa

September 21, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

As a parent blessed with two gifted children, I have agreed with Lori’s thoughts for a long time - but Lori, you have summarized it better than I ever have. I will be stealing your phrase!

No real need to comment further, but I will say that we are placing our nation in a dangerous position if we are not working with our brightest students so that they can achieve at the highest level. Yes, all children should have some basic level of education, but don’t bring down your best so that everyone “is the same” or “feels good.” If no one excels, everyone loses.

By jim d

September 21, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

HS II,

It really isn’t there—it appears in a letter Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802 inresponse to a letter they had sent him.

Thomas Jefferson’s reply of January 1, 1802, to an address of congratulations from the Danbury (Connecticut) Baptist Association contains a phrase familiar in today’s political and judicial circles: “a wall of separation between church and state.” Many in the United States, including the courts, have used this phrase to interpret the Founders’ intentions regarding the relationship between government and religion, as set down by the First Amendment to the Constitution: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion … .” However, the meaning of this clause has been the subject of passionate dispute for the past fifty years.

both letters are available on line at

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06-2.html

By jim d

September 21, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this

Just me,

I totally agree. Pretty lame isn’t it?

By jim d

September 21, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

Here’s a real issue with NCLB.

It is entirly performance based and performance often lags behind practice. Schools are “improving” just as much when they are changing practices as they are when they are changing performance; performance, however, is easier to measure than is practice. Current theories of accountability do not allow us to make judgments about improvement that take account of the way improvement actually occurs so in essence we are condeming some of our best schools and will eventually condem the public education system as we know it.

By HS Teacher Too

September 21, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

Jim d,

I was in fact referring to the Establishment clause that you quoted in part. I’ll grant you it is not in the “original” Constitution, but is in the Bill of Rights, and if you’re going to argue that over 200+ years our courts have misinterpreted it, I am definitely interested to hear more of your perspective. I won’t even say you’re right or wrong; I am simply intrigued.

By jim d

September 21, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

HS2,

Not me. I concur with the courts. Jeff on the other hand??????? Well at least that is how I took his statement.

By jim d

September 21, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

HST II,

For the record—I have suggested the blog topic Separation-Church/state/school but don’t know if Bridget is really up for a blog on such a controversial/emotional topic.

By jim d

September 21, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

HST II,

If you are truly intrigued, might I suggest you write a guest blog and lets see where it goes. I do find it an extremely interesting topic and one where both sides are extremely polarized.

By EducatorX3

September 21, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

Just curious…how many of you have read the NCLB legislation - the whole thing? I am wondering how many are forming opinions based on bits and pieces rather than the whole document.

By Cobb Parent

September 21, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

Amen to you too Melissa!!!

As a parent with two gifted children as well, I hate they are not learning at their pace…all because they are “waiting” on the others to catch up. Now that our son is in middle school and in AC classes, we (including our son) are thrilled that he is now learning at a pace with others similar to his. Gee…what a concept.

There is NOTHING wrong with being average or below average. We all learn at different levels/speeds. That’s what makes the world go ‘round. Let the kids learn at a level that is right for them and we’ll all benefit.

By Frank

September 21, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this

Burdening schools that are already overburdened by overcrowding, lack of discipline, lack of parent support, and lack of technology with additional procedures and paperwork to reform “needs improvement” schools is like throwing gasoline to put out a fire.

As for whether we are headed towards private, selective education or public, state boarding schools, I would have to say both. There are millions of home-schooled children in this country, and the number multiplies exponentially every year. Private schools show record enrollment, and additional new ones are opening every year. However, there is a movement in this country that will be painfully obvious with “nationalized healthcare”. There is a large segment of our country’s population that is embracing entitlement and socialism, and it can be observed with relative ease by spending time with our nation’s school children, right in their classrooms. Under state boarding schools, every child will have an IEP, there will be school uniforms, they will eat three meals a day, and will be housed in dormatories that will resemble some high-scale prisons. In essence, there will be many parents who will choose to give up their child to the state so they can pursue their own personal, selfish pleasures. We NOW are only one step away from IEP’s for all students and serving dinner in schools. Socialism is a rapidly growing fire, fueled by ignorance and apathy and selfishness.

By Jeff

September 21, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

HST2:

Sorry, have been in a meeting. (Yes, even I have those - Mondays @ 9a, Fridays @ 2p)

The First Ammendment states (in part, it also deals with other freedoms):

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

NOWHERE does this insinuate that the Government be hostile to religion or even that there be a “wall of separation” between church and state. In fact, this clause means that government must be religion-neutral.

HOWEVER, this is NOT what is now happening. What we now have is a government that ILLEGALLY promotes Secular Humanism. As defined in previous Supreme Court rulings, secular humanism is, in fact, a religion. Since it is the belief that - according to Webster Online - “usually rejects supernaturalism and stresses an individual’s dignity and worth and capacity for self-realization through reason”, it is the one that Government supports when it bars other displays of “supernatural” (ie, theistic) religions.

Much like the difference between a man comfortable in his sexuality - be it gay or straight - vs a closeted gay man, the Founding Fathers did not stress about “separation of church and state”. They knew their principles and stuck by them. They were not afraid of conflicting ideas. Today’s society is more like the closeted gay man - afraid any little detail that doesn’t fit into their neat little box is going to “out” them.

By College Professor

September 21, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

I work in higher education in the School of Education. There are many things wrong in education today. Parents that believe their child should always make A’s and send them to college via the Hope when they really should not attend because they are not capable of doing college level work. Colleges have to remediate approximately 35% of all students that come (but they had high enough test scores and grade point averages to get in). But education is the same at the college level. When a student does poorly in a class, they are allowed to re-take a class and replace their original bad grade (you could always re-take classes but the original grade stayed in as part of your average, now it just goes away). There is no longer personal responsibility for actions and NCLB is part of that type of thinking. Punish all for the poor behaviors of some. Treat all students the same, expect all to accomplish the same, everyone should have the same…sounds like Communism doesn’t it.

By jim d

September 21, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

I know a few folks hate when I do this but here’s a link if you care to read the full 670 pages.

http://www.ed.gov/policy/elsec/leg/esea02/107-110.pdf

You can also go here http://edlabor.house.gov/micro/nclb.shtml if you care to see where your government wants to take it,

Enjoy the read folks.

By Jeff

September 21, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

An interesting quote from the Danbury letter:

“I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.” (emphasis mine)

Note: All this talk about “I have the right to do this or have that”… Jefferson wouldn’t have believed in it!

Another interesting note:

3 sentences after the “wall” clause, he closes the letter with:

“I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.” (emphasis mine)

Kinda blows a hole in the impenetrable “wall” theory…

By jim d

September 21, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

On the other hand Jeff, it can be argued,

In 1802, while serving as President, Jefferson wrote the letter to the Danbury Baptist Association wherein he employed a phrase referring to a “wall of separation.” Jefferson had already developed a reputation as a staunch separationist; indeed, he was referred to as a “miserable atheist” by his Federalist political opponents and others who suggested that he was too much of a rebel.

He was the architect of the Act for Establishing Religious Freedom in Virginia which ended compulsory funding of so-called “established” religions. That 1786 Act states that “no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burdened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions of belief.”

Echoing the resentment of earlier churches to the whole notion of disestablishment, modern day religious groups have attacked Jefferson’s “wall of separation” reference. Christian Reconstructionists and others intent on legislating “Bible law” as the civil law of the United States grudgingly acknowledge the reference, simply insisting that it should be discarded. More politically adroit strategists, like David Barton of the Wall Builders group, have attempted to put “spin” on the Danbury Letter, advancing disingenuous claims that the “wall of separation” was meant to be “one directional,” and not prohibit the influence of civil matters by organized religion.

By jim d

September 21, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this

And just for the record.

“Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong.”

-Thomas Jefferson (Notes on Virginia, 1782)

It spite of Christian right attempts to rewrite history to make Jefferson into a Christian, little about his philosophy resembled that of Christianity. Although Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence wrote of the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God, there exists nothing in the Declaration about Christianity.

Although Jefferson believed in a Creator, his concept of it resembled that of the god of deism (the term “Nature’s God” used by deists of the time). With his scientific bent, Jefferson sought to organize his thoughts on religion. He rejected the superstitions and mysticism of Christianity and even went so far as to edit the gospels, removing the miracles and mysticism of Jesus (see The Jefferson Bible) leaving only what he deemed the correct moral philosophy of Jesus.

By MBW

September 21, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this

Enough with the excuses about “but I get the dumb kids”….or “I get the hispanic kids”!

Teachers in public schools have NEVER been able to choose their students. Get over it. It’s part of the job. You know that from DAY ONE.

Your students don’t speak english? What are YOU and the SCHOOL doing to adjust your teaching/curriculum to meet those needs??

NCLB simply demands that we meet the needs of the students we have….it’s not that complicated.

As a teacher, my philosophy is this: ———Either you choose to do your best with the students you have…or you don’t. Frankly, if you aren’t willing to do your best with any kind of student, you need to quit teaching.

By Janine

September 21, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

As a teacher in a school labeled by NCLB as “failing [years and years of “failing”] I thin the “cons” posted on this blog today are all 100 A+ accurate. HOwever, the most blatant and IGNORANT “con” that negates any “pro”, is that the method for measuring improvement is so totally FLAWED!!! NCLB commits one of the prime transgressions in standardized testing..when testing for significant difference, in this case, Improvement , NCLB compares two entirely different groups of students , i.e. 2005 sixth graders to 2006 sixth gradeer. Hate to be so negative, but even a moron knows that in order to arrive at an improvement score, one must test the same students! The scores of the students in the 2005 sixth grade class would have to be compared to the scores of THOSE SAME STUDENTS at the end of the year in which they received instruction. As long as NCLB compares the scores of totally different students…IT’A A JOKE!!!!

By Janine

September 21, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

I think I have mentioned before that AJC editor Jim Wooten asked the U.S. Sec. of Education [Margaret Spelling, I think} why NCLB used such a flawed method of measuring improvement. She said she realized it was a bad way to do it and they were “working on it”!!!! With such geniuses running education for our country, we are in BIG TROUBLE!!!

By Jeff

September 21, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this

Ah, but jim:

Look at the language employed. He could have made the point without referencing the “common Father(notice the capitalization) and creator of man” and still have been just as polite. That he CHOSE to INCLUDE the phrase speaks VOLUMES.

By jim d

September 21, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this

Hope everyone leaves the blog today with something to think about. Y’all have a great and safe weekend.

By jim d

September 21, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this

Oh, nearly forgot.

Jeff, answer to the riddle.

Ford was born Leslie King Jr. His parents divorced. When his mother remarried his name was changed to Gerald Ford.

HAGD :-)

By erica

September 21, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this

MBW, so … you do your best with the kids with the 140 IQs while at the same time doing you best with the kids with the 80 IQs and behavior disorders? All in the same classroom? Really? Are you sure that you don’t ever have to sacrifice one group to serve the other?

You are able to do YOUR BEST with both groups… oh and by the way, keep the middle kids on track too.

By Jeff

September 21, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this

On this, we are back in agreement jim!

Have fun everybody, and GO DAWGS!

See y’all bright and early Monday morning!

By jim d

September 21, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

Jeff, one last thought.

To be a Christian one requirement exists. So why would Jefferson have taken reference to that one requirement from the Bible when re-writing it if he in fact were a Christian?

By JustMe

September 21, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this

MBW -

You are wrong. NCLB does not say to meet the needs of the students that we have. NCLB says that every student must meet a specific level of performance…….

One twist to that is: what if I happen to have a class of above average kids? I only have to do minimal in order for them to meet the NCLB performance level. Then, I’m done!

See the problem?

By HS Teacher Too

September 21, 2007 5:29 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

Can you point me to some cases where the government supports secular humanism? You can email Bridget for my email address if this is too off-topic.

Thanks!

By Donnie

September 21, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this

NCLB is probably one of the dumbest laws that have ever been passed in its present form. Teachers are held accountable when students who do not care and will not care and will not pass any test given to them. There is no discipline in the schools so that these students can be removed so that the other students who want to learn can and will learn. Some parents do not want to realize that their little angels can do things that disturb the class and stop the learning process. Does NCLB have some positive points? Yes! It has forced some schools to be more proactive in developing sound educational plans. But the bad points far out number the good points and since other writers have pointed them out, I will not waste my time to do so.

By tx2

September 21, 2007 6:02 PM | Link to this

You want to know where NCLB is leading? I recently saw a course evaluation comment from a student in an upper-level biology class at a state university: “This professor should get a F!!!! Worst teacher ever!!!! He had us learn things that wasn’t [sic] even on the test!!!! Why should we have to learn extra stuff?”

This class is targeted to pre-med students and biological sciences majors; it’s not a basic, core curriculum class. Yet this student appears to have imbibed the philosophy that any knowledge beyond that needed to pass the test is a waste. Scary, indeed.

By WFC

September 24, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

NCLB is a political hoax designed to convince the “public” that President Bush is concerned about the public school system. It defies common sense. My ex-wife and I have Master’s degrees in history and English. We also have $50,000 in cold hard cash which we are willing and able to spend on our son’s education (so far not necessary.) Please explain to me how the government is going to enable the son of a 17-year old poor unwed mother to compete with our son? IT SIMPLY WON’T HAPPEN.

By lb

September 24, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

I’m so tired hearing about poor little gifted kids getting the shaft with NCLB!!!! Nobody cares at all about kids with disabilities…they are treated as 2nd class citizens and it is DISGUSTING!!!!! These kids are the ones getting the shaft. They are being forced to complete material that they CANNOT do!!!!! How would you like it if someone forced you to do something that you COULD NOT do and then told you if you could not do it you would be fired!!! Parents of students with disabilities need to stand up and quit taking this CRAP!!!!

By Jeff

September 24, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

lb:

Physically not being able to learn something only happens with RARE disorders.

I have a cousin who is one of the most severely disabled people you will ever meet. He is also one of the smartest. (No joke. I haven’t been around him in a while - last time I saw him was March - but it is quite possible that this kid is as smart - if not more so - than I, and that is HIGH praise coming from me!)

I always apply my own story and those of others throughout history in regards to “can’t”. Particularly moving - though not necessarily historical - is the scene from “Pearl Harbor” where the Generals are discussing Doolittle’s plan with FDR. They keep telling him “it can’t be done”. He stands. “Don’t tell me something cannot be done.”

By threedeep

September 24, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

lb,

Although I understand the challenges of NCLB with the disabled, the facts paint a different story. The gifted children are the ones getting the shaft and and we will pay for 20 years from now when we need a doctor, scientist, pharmacist, et. all.

Read below if you do not agree, then read the entire article, I have provided a link.

To some extent, complacency is built into the system. American schools spend more than $8 billion a year educating the mentally retarded. Spending on the gifted isn’t even tabulated in some states, but by the most generous calculation, we spend no more than $800 million on gifted programs. But it can’t make sense to spend 10 times as much to try to bring low-achieving students to mere proficiency as we do to nurture those with the greatest potential.

… No Child Left Behind is radically egalitarian. It has forced schools to deeply subsidize the education of the least gifted, and gifted programs have suffered. The year after the President signed the law in 2002, Illinois cut $16 million from gifted education; Michigan cut funding from $5 million to $500,000. Federal spending declined from $11.3 million in 2002 to $7.6 million this year.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1653653,00.html

By JustMe

September 24, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

lb,

I understand and sympathize with the plight of the special needs student.

It seems that NCLB forces all special needs children to pass those same BS standardized tests and it is not fair. IMHO, NCLB is in violation of the law because of this.

However, I do not have considerable knowledge in special ed law but would love to hear from someone who is.

All I know is that the special ed kids are thrown into the same classes with the general population and are expected to perform to the same standards.

By holdingAJCaccountable

September 24, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

Since George Bush has failed to make “Adequate Yearly Progress” in Iraq, can we all get vouchers to go hire us a competent president?

Seems what’s good for the goose would be good for the gander.

By lessismore

September 25, 2007 8:41 AM | Link to this

A Picture is Worth 666,483,972,618,001 Pages of Congressional Testimony

http://susanohanian.org/shownclbcartoons.html?id=524