Get Schooled

By Jeff

September 11, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

An interesting note:

Abbe Boring is Superintendent of Bartow County and makes over $161K. She is responsible for 3 HS’s, 4 MS’s, and roughly a dozen or so ES’s (plus all the support structure needed).

Julian Hinesly is Super of Cartersville City schools. He is responsible for roughly a QUARTER of what Boring is (1 HS, 1 MS, 1 PS, 1 ES) and yet makes only $19K less - over $142K.

What sense does THAT make?

OF course, it DOES give Bobby Jenkins SOME legitimacy - he makes $29K less than Hinesely, coming in at over $113K.

Problem for Jenkins is that even Hinesely’s relatively small system is nearly 4 times the size of Jenkins’, and I’m being generous in saying Jenkins is responsible for 1,000 students. (Population at the HS/MS combined last year was somewhere right at 500.)

Shouldn’t there be a state law that says that Superintendent pay should be no more than x dollars per student?

I mean, at the pay rates posted, using student info data from each systems’s site, Jenkins makes over $80.61 per student, Hinesely makes $36.68 per student, and Boring makes $11.56 per student.

Doesn’t this seem off to anyone other than me?

Even the much maligned J.Alvin makes only $1.91 per student!!!

(Beverly comes in at $6.94 per student.)

By JustMe

September 11, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

As an educator, I would never accept those jobs regardless of how much they pay. Most people have no clue what all those types of jobs involve. As someone that has been in corporate management and also in education, I think that the ‘load of crap’ that a Super has to deal with compared to a CEO of a medium size company is no comparison - the Super has it much worse!!!

By Truth Filter

September 11, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

I had banned this blog from my computer, but hey, a filter can change her mind.

I have no idea what is or is not appropriate to pay a Supt. But think of Superintendent’s pay a different way:

In 2005, Gwinnett County Schools was the 2nd largest employer in the Atlanta area (Atlanta Business Chronicle Book of Lists). BellSouth was the 3rd largest employer (before sale to AT&T)

Bellsouth CEO’s compensation: $9.51 million

Alvin Wilbanks Salary: $276,000.

School systems are huge businesses and these Superintendents are the CEOs of these businesses. In many districts they are the largest employer in the county. So maybe the pay isn’t really out of whack. And before someone says “yes, but we don’t pay the salary for Bellsouth’s CEO”…think again

Just a different perspective. But that’s no opinion on whether Hall deserves what she’s making. Or Wilbanks for that matter…

TF

By Jeff

September 11, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

I’m working on compiling the per-student pay of ALL of GA’s supers (remember that program I mentioned yesterday? Guess what I’m pretty well spending all day having to run….).

So far, I found one that beats Bobby’s BY FAR (try nearly 4 times Bobby’s!!)… Grady Miles of Clay County. Knowing how much nearly everybody in the Randolph/Clay area claims to be “kin” to each other, it wouldn’t surprise me to learn that these two are related. (Though clearly Grady is the smarter of the two!)

By jim d

September 11, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

TF,

Sorry to disagree (no i’m not) but if Alvin was paid only $1, in my opinon he would still be overpaid.

By Jeff

September 11, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

TF:

But we can CHOOSE to pay Bellsouth’s CEO… we can’t CHOOSE to pay taxes.

Also note that Bellsouth is a FOR-PROFIT company making BILLIONS of dollars.

A School System doesn’t EARN even enough money to break even with its spending.

You won’t see too many (successful) CEO’s running companies that hold such a distinction. (Matter of fact, such companies generally go out of business rather quickly, leaving their CEO’s without a job….)

By SET

September 11, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

I would not pay anyone with an “Education” degree that kind of money.

If the candidate is a manager or large systems with degrees (ie MBA from a top ranking university) to match then that is the going rate. Educators are in no way worth that money.

The job is not an Education job it’s a management job.

By threedeep

September 11, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

Why every year a big deal is made out of teacher salaries and the superintendent’s package. Many people are losing their homes, jobs, and lack health coverage, yet the CEO’s of these companies pocket millions of dollars for themselves. Where is the the public uproar when the millions of dollars that go to ONE PERSON, could provide salary / health care for thousands.

If you do not believe me check out the links below.

The heads of America’s 500 biggest companies received an aggregate 54% pay raise last year. As a group, their total compensation amounted to $5.1 billion, versus $3.3 billion in fiscal 2003. http://www.forbes.com/2005/04/20/05ceoland.html

The huge pay packages for corporate CEOs mentioned the breath-taking $124.8 million total compensation of United Health Group (parent of United Healthcare) CEO William McGuire. http://hcrenewal.blogspot.com/2005/05/how-can-1248-million-year-ceo-make.html

By Ernest

September 11, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

I lean towards JustMe’s comments on this. It is easy to pass judgment on someone’s compensation especially if you don’t have insight as to what they do. I could not imagine being ‘on’ 24/7 for elected officials, stakeholders, board members, parents, employees, and children. A super answers to each of above and could lose their job if they ‘tick off’ the wrong constituents.

Each super is worth whatever that particular school system is willing to pay them. There will be a strong correlation between the compensation offered and the quality of the candidate pool to choose a super from. At the end of the day, you get what you pay for.

It is interesting having a base salary and using measurable metrics to determine additional compensation. This means of payment works well in the sales industry, to keep employees motivated. Obviously, any metrics should include things that one either has control over or can influence.

Jeff’s algorithm aside, what do you think would be ‘fair’ compensation for a super, assuming you believe their current compensation is out of line?

By Jeff

September 11, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

Ernest:

If you FORCE Superintendent pay to be no higher than X dollars per student (with x in the range of say $20), you automatically give Superintendents a REASON to work for the betterment of their communities. Because with this measure, more students = more money for them. You attract people by having jobs and/ or good schools in the area. You attract jobs by having a well-educated populace. See how this all centers around schools and the Superintendent’s overall job performance?

By V for Vendetta

September 11, 2007 1:13 PM | Link to this

Where can I sign up to make over two hundred large for ruining some of the best school districts in the state? Please, tell me!

By Janine

September 11, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

Supers’ pay should be commensurate with successful experience, successful management experience in similar area, and with the going market rate in the area. I agree with SET that a superintendent should have some degree in addition to one in education…an MBA works. Maybe it would be good to have the top guy with management [of people, money,ideas etc] experience and a Lieutenant super with the experience in education.

By Pompano

September 11, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

If Wilbanks worked in the private sector, he would be a mediocre middle-level manager earning less than a 4th of what he takes in as Super. Most school Administrators would be marginal private sector employees. Just another example of how our school system wastes taxpayer funds

By Yada yada

September 11, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

If they are paid by the number of students then they would take in every thug from other schools just to increase the pay. But the idea is not bad just need to work out some details. What about the small rural schools? It would be hard for them to find a super if they didn’t pay at least a state base pay scale. Maybe have a state base and add supplement based on number of students, employees, grad rate, student achievement etc…..

By Ernest

September 11, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this

Jeff, don’t get me wrong, I’m big into algorithms. I also thought it was interesting when Ben & Jerry’s had a compensation algorithm in which the top paid folks made no more than 7 times the salary of the lowest paid staffers. Unless you factor things such as cost of living, socioeconomic status of the area and school system, racial and ethnic composition of area and school system, past history, etc., it would be challenging to come up with an ‘all inclusive’ algorithm, especially for a public servant.

I believe we are all worth what we are willing to accept for a salary. Organizations will seek to pay us as little as reasonably possible for our services. It is up to us to maximize our salary through negotiation. We do have choices as to where we work.

By Jeff

September 11, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

yada yada:

I’m open to suggestions along those lines. I simply don’t think that most supers would be competent enough to earn NEAR as much money in private life as they do sucking in taxpayer money. The average overall salary so far in my list (I’ve only accounted for 22 of roughly 174 systems) is already $122,149.78

You can’t TELL me that many of these “supers” would earn that much in private practice!

By Jeff

September 11, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this

Ernest:

One can ALWAYS find ways to lower (or raise) one’s “cost of living”, no matter WHAT area one lives in.

Therefore I do not consider it - or anything else you listed - as a valid factor.

For example:

Right now I live in South GA, but work in Macon. I could potentially take a job in South GA that would pay roughly the same as my position in Macon. This would substantially lower my “cost of living”. Or, I could stay in South GA, stay at my job in Macon, and buy a motorcycle which gets twice the gas mileage of my car. This would also reduce my “cost of living”. Or I could move to Macon. This would substantially INCREASE my “cost of living”. I could buy a truck or SUV which doesn’t get even HALF my current gas mileage. This would also substantially INCREASE my “cost of living”.

Do ANY of these things affect how good I am as a programmer or my value to the company?

NOT AT ALL.

By jim d

September 11, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

I’m not too certain but certainly would think that running a school system wouldn’t be any more difficult than running a state.

Here are a few interesting salaries.

Alabama Gov: Bob Riley, $113,000

Arizona Gov: Janet Napolitano, $95,000

Arkansas Gov: Mike Beebe, $81,000

California Gov: Arnold Schwarzenegger, $207,000 (gives salary back to state)

Colorado Gov: Bill Ritter, $90,000

Connecticut Gov: M. Jodi Rell, $150,000

Delaware Gov: Ruth Ann Minner, $133,000

Florida Gov: Charlie Crist, $133,000

Georgia Gov: Sonny Perdue, $133,000

Hawaii Gov: Linda Lingle, $112,000

Idaho Gov: Butch Otter, $106,000

Illinois Gov: Rod Blagojevich, $156,000

Indiana Gov: Mitch Daniels, $95,000

Iowa Gov: Chet Culver, $130,000

Kansas Gov: Kathleen Sebelius, $106,000

Kentucky Gov: Ernie Fletcher, $138,000

Louisiana Gov: Kathleen Blanco, $95,000

Maine Gov: John Baldacci, $70,000

Maryland Gov: Martin O’Malley, $150,000

Massachusetts Gov: Deval Patrick, $141,000

Michigan Gov: Jennifer Granholm, $177,000

Minnesota Gov: Tim Pawlenty, $120,000

Mississippi Gov: Haley Barbour, $122,000

Missouri Gov: Matt Blunt, $120,000

Montana Gov: Brian Schweitzer, $96,000

Nebraska Gov: Dave Heineman, $105,000

Nevada Gov: Jim Gibbons, $141,000

New Hampshire Gov: John Lynch, $109,000

New Jersey Gov: Jon Corzine, $175,000 (accepts only $1 per year)

New Mexico Gov: Bill Richardson, $110,000

New York Gov: Eliot Spitzer, $179,000

North Carolina Gov: Mike F. Easley, $131,000

North Dakota Gov: John Hoeven, $92,000

Ohio Gov: Ted Strickland, $145,000

Oklahoma Gov: Brad Henry, $140,000

Oregon Gov: Ted Kulongoski, $94,000

Pennsylvania Gov: Ed Rendell, $164,000

Rhode Island Gov: Don Carcieri, $118,000

South Carolina Gov: Mark Sanford, $106,000

South Dakota Gov: Mike Rounds, $106,000

Tennessee Gov: Phil Bredesen, $85,000 (gives his salary back to the state)

Texas Gov: Rick Perry, $115,000

Utah Gov: Jon Huntsman, $104,000

Virginia Gov: Tim Kaine, $175,000

Vermont Gov: Jim Douglas, $144,000

Washington Gov: Christine Gregoire, $151,000

West Virginia Gov: Joe Manchin III, $95,000

Wisconsin Gov: Jim Doyle, $137,000

Wyoming Gov: Dave Freudenthal, $105,000

By Pompano

September 11, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this

jim d - Excellent Point!!

By jim d

September 11, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this

Here’s another one pompy.

Bush gets $400,000 and Cheney receives a mere $198,600 per year.

So some of the folks on this blog obviously feel a local school super has more responsibility than the top 2 dogs in world.

By Jeff

September 11, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this

jim:

If you have that in an Excel file, can you send it to me at ajc_jeff@yahoo.com?

I would be interested in comparing the list I am generating vs your list of governors.

By DB

September 11, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

Jim d:

Don’t forget thought — Bush and Cheney do get free public housing. :-)

(ducking and running)

By David

September 11, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this

Honestly, I think it’s fair. The superintendent has the most important job in the school system (or at least the highest ranking job) and should be paid a high salary. If his/her salary was lower, everyone else’s salaries in the education field would have to be adjusted - just to be fair to the highest ranking person. And everyone knows that teachers don’t make enough!

By Atlanta Pearl Girl

September 11, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

Considering the APS is in DIRE need of an overhaul….I don’t know where they are getting their numbers.

She makes way too much money considering her non dedication to these kids.

It took the Mayor of Atlanta to produce a program of her own ‘Next Step’ to get these kids to the next level of College! WHERE WAS THE BEVERLY HALL? Instead of embracing this program… she was not even involved.

Also…… The counselors in APS don’t give a patoody about if these kids get into college or not.

Beverly Hall needs to cough up half o her salary and produce a scholarship for these kids who really can go to college but are lost in APS hell.

By Ernest

September 11, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

C’mon, Jeff. Are you serious when you suggest basing a super’s salary on an algorithm based on number of students without factoring in socioeconomic status, demographics, location, etc.? You would pay a super in rural GA with a one HS system the same as what you would pay for a super in the NE for a similar sized system? There are MANY intangibles that go into determining an equitable salary.

By Jeff

September 11, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

David:

I don’t but that argument either.

In the Marine Corps, they have a very practical way of showing who is the most important person:

You eat according to rank - E1 FIRST. In other words, the guy that just showed up in Iraq from Parris Island eats before the Sergeants, who eat before the LT’s, who eat before the Colonels, who eat before the Commandant of the Corps.

By Janine

September 11, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

Off topic just a moment….JEFF…”RE Abbe Boring is Superintendent of Bartow County and makes over $161K”, Is this the same Abbe Boring who was the deputy super and reputed decision maker for ex Dekalb superintedent Johnny Brown??? and got fired when he did.

By Gwen

September 11, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

I think that Gwinnett and Fulton county school chiefs deserve their pay. DEKALB county’s chief needs to work on their poor school system first before being recognized with such pay. DEKALB needs more money in the schools themselves. They’re schools are just as bad as Clayton and Henry county.

By Jeff

September 11, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this

Ernest:

Honestly, I would leave it up to the local board with the caveat being that there be a state-set maximum per student, again, in the range of $20 or so. The local board could go as low as they could get away with, but no super in the state would have a salary higher than that of $20 per student.

Then, the salary would accurately reflect how the community is doing. If the community is dieing, you would see the salary begin to decrease. If the community is experiencing never-before-seen growth, you would see the salary increase at the same rate (assuming community growth == student population growth - not always the case, such as in retirement communities).

In either case, you wouldn’t see the Superintendent making 5 times the community average salary, not even in Randolph.

By JustMe

September 11, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Gwen - Regarding your comment about DeKalb schools….

I want to point out that not all schools in DeKalb are ‘bad.’ There are some very high performing schools in that school system.

What is happening is that the stupid DeKalb administration is enforcing blanket rules on ALL schools due to the failure of SOME of the schools. These blanket rules are destroying those few GOOD schools that are there. These DUMB rules are driving away the few GOOD teachers.

Teachers are not allowed to give blanket punishment to the class if one student misbehaves. However, administrators seem justified in enforcing blanket rules because some schools do not make AYP.

By Jeff

September 11, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Janine:

I haven’t lived in Bartow in over a year now, and honestly hadn’t paid attention to the school system (other than as it related to my two younger bros) in a considerable time before that.

The honest answer to your question is “I don’t know”. Maybe their website could help you out. If not, I’m sure I could ask around up there and find out. (I’m going back this weekend for my bachelor’s party - we’re having a tame one and going to Six Flags!)

By Ernest

September 11, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

Janine, that is the same Abbe Boring. In fairness, she was not fired but had a ‘mutual understanding’ with leaving. If memory serves me right, she got the Bartow job immediately after leaving DeKalb.

By Ernest

September 11, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

OK Jeff, I think I see what you are suggesting. I still think there are many intangibles in determining an equitable compensation package for a super. Take the City of Decatur Schools, a one HS district with just under 3000 students. By your formula, you would pay the super 60K/year. Teachers with 20 years of service in metro ATL make that salary. Would you then make the teacher’s salary based on the unique number of students they serve per year?

I know you threw out $20 per student as an example but it would then make it tough to determine salaries of staffers and teachers.

By HS Teacher Too

September 11, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

How do the personal liabilities of superintendents compare to personal liabilities of CEOs?

Anyone know? SET?

I tend to think that the higher up the administrative chain, the more the leader is a business manager than an educator. (Which is both good and bad; another topic for another day.) So in that regard I think that their pay as superintendents is not so outrageous. I’m not sure I agree with the comparisons to holders of public office, who have intangible benefits not accorded to superintendents, and also seem less likely to be personally liable for governmental missteps. Or am I being naive?

Seeking comments and input… this is a topic that really has me thinking today!

By Jeff

September 11, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

Ernest:

How’s this:

If the Super comes from within education (as most do), the cap would be something around $15 per student (3/4 the non-education rate), PLUS the highest salary they had while IN THE CLASSROOM. Note that this would hurt people who rose through the ranks of admin, but that is my point: I would rather a Super be well acquainted with exactly what is going on in today’s classroom.

For example, under this scenario let’s say that the Dekalb Super had 10 years in the classroom. Highest salary while in classroom is over 45K, assuming a master’s degree. 3000 kids at $15 each is another 45K, making their salary about 90K, which I would deem reasonable.

By HS Teacher Too

September 11, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

Jeff, I don’t buy your USMC argument. Forget about how they EAT; look at how they are paid, and find me an E1 that is paid more than the Commandant. Or even an LTC paid more than a Commandant. You get the idea … :)

Have fun this weekend, btw.

By Jeff

September 11, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this

Ernest:

Also note that my figure (90K) is almost 70K LESS than what Edwards was paid, according to my search.

Again, reflection that this particular Super is probably GROSSLY OVERPAID.

By Ernest

September 11, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

Jeff:

Time permitting, take a look at the following link: 2008 Salary Schedule I’m sure you are familiar with this, the table the determines teacher salaries based on years of service and highest level of education but before any local supplements. This is also before benefits (roughly 25-30% of their salary). If you want to use an algorithm, wouldn’t it make sense to use this as your starting point because this reflects the teachers salaries REGARDLESS of the size of the school system. When you factor in that a super easily works 280-300 days per year (I eliminated Sundays and some days for vacation), their salary may seem like a bargain.

I don’t begrudge a super for making as much as they can because it is a tough job and they usually have short tenures. I wouldn’t take their job for $500K/year but then I’d be taking a pay cut…. :) Just kidding….

By Jeff

September 11, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this

Ernest:

As an experienced classroom teacher, and as someone whose wife (well, fiancee for 4 more weeks) is still active in the classroom, I contend that the job of Super is actually FAR LESS stressful than that of classroom teacher.

Therefore, I do not begrudge teachers the salary the state says they should have, nor do I use this salary when computing what a Super should get.

By catlady

September 11, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this

Our supt of a school system with a little more than 4000 students has a “package” of about $200,000. Of course, with 2 coaches making in the neighborhood of $90,000 each in their packages, I guess we don’t care!

By Cranberry

September 11, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this

SET said: “….Educators are in no way worth that money.” Be careful SET, a good educator is PRICELESS. We can’t pay our teachers enough money, and we obviously don’t. Now administrators, that’s a different story.

By SET

September 11, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

I do not believe personal liability is an issue for Supers.. Corporations usually insure against negligence liabilities for board members and executives, in any event the employer is liable for negligent acts not the employee.

If a super runs the school district into the ground they normally have no personal financial liability. If they run the test scores into the ground they have no liability also.

Running a large system such as an urban school district is not an education job anyway, it’s a management job.

There’s tremendous judgment required for legal compliance, financial reporting, accounting and budget compliance. The HR issues are terrible. You have to deal with a silly governing board that may be comprised of activists, reverends, politicians and other nutjobs that couldn’t care less about legal compliance and fiscal survival. You have to manage a police department with guns, assault rifles, love triangles, and maybe a german shepard or two. The press are sniffing around, there is a whole litigation dept. You have state financial auditors wanting to look and one or more sets of the books you keep re: grant compliance. And on a really bad day you have ex-boyfriends of staff and students coming onto various campuses armed (that’s routine - the maniacal shooters are a new problem).

And we haven’t really talked about the students and parents. What kind of qualified person would even want the job?

And CA Public Junior Colleges are getting really big. Ours has a designated police officer to handle the registered sex offenders - in CA they have to specially register with campus police to attend class. People have no idea how many parolees are being sent to college classes..

By catlady

September 11, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this

Remember that salary is only a part of the compensation. Our supt gets tens of thousands more in financial perks that are not available to the average employee.

By David Blauch

September 11, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this

I think superintendents should be paid as much as CEOs of corporations. I think many CEOs shouldn’t be paid as much as they are.

By HS Teacher Too

September 11, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

Please clarify why you think the stress is more for teachers than superintendents. I am not sure I agree with that. I would argue, if anything, that they are different kinds of stresses.

By catlady

September 11, 2007 5:29 PM | Link to this

I wonder about the veracity of this database. it lists our supt as not getting any travel expense which I know is incorrect. Where can we see the TOTAL, TRUE expenditure for each employee?

By HS Teacher Too

September 11, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this

SET, maybe we can continue this via email if it gets too off-topic, but thanks for your reply. Are you sure supers don’t have personal liability issues? I recall scare-tactic meetings where “unions” told we teachers that we could be held personally liable for various issues and I am wondering if those liabilities don’t travel up the chain.

Let’s say a student sues me for issue x. Couldn’t they also do the typical sue-everyone-who-might-be-involved thing and sue my principal, my superintendent, etc.? I’m talking, I suppose, about classroom or coaching or “teacher” issues, nevermind HR and other safety issues that school administrators would face.

Or maybe I’m being redundant and it’s all lumped into one? Or did I mis-read your posting?

My point is, I could foresee a local superintendent being sued as a party in a lawsuit where a kid was hurt in gym class, more than I could see the CEO of BellSouth being sued as a party in a lawsuit if, say, a telephone pole fell on a passer-by. It seems that in the corporate world, as you said, the company itself is sued, whereas in education, individuals (can be, at least) are sued.

Am I off the mark here?

You’re the lawyer, I’m just the 2L. :)

By DJ

September 11, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this

it seems pretty high to me. comparing the superintendent’s salary to a corporate CEO is not legitimate, particularly considering the school system is not a ‘for profit’ company. A more obvious question, though, is why did Hall receive 90% of the available bonus ($68k of a possible $75k) when she only accomplished “about half of the 59 goals” (which is 50%, not 90%). seems like one gruby hand washing another. Once again (ah, politicians - can’t live with them, can’t ship them off to the gulag).

By Pompano

September 11, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

If school systems were run by the Private sector, no way would administration positions carry these types of salary. If their salaries were not seized from the taxpayers, there is no way someone would voluntarily pay them at these levels. It’s the very reason that public educators are so opposed to vouchers or any competition to their little kingdoms.

By Ernest

September 11, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this

Catlady, I don’t think travel would be considered taxable income. The same would probably apply to any benefits provided like insurance.

Correct me if I’m wrong but we should be able to get a close ‘guesstimate’ of the percentage that wages make of the overall budget. As a ballpark, I would guess about 65-70%. When you factor in benefits, it probably goes to 85-90%. I only mention that because when I hear of people ‘commenting’ on how much money it takes to run a school system, many don’t realize the only way to significantly impact the budget is reduce personnel. At the same time, others are ‘commenting’ that we need additional personnel such as school nurses, fine arts and languages teachers, etc along with increasing teacher salaries. When you compare what we pay in property taxes in GA to that in the NE corridor, it REALLY makes one think…..

By catlady

September 11, 2007 6:07 PM | Link to this

*is why did Hall receive 90% of the available bonus ($68k of a possible $75k) when she only accomplished “about half of the 59 goals” (which is 50%, not 90%). *

Ah, but DJ, remember you are in Georgia, home of the CRCT, where “passing” is actually a low percentage of questions correct!

By catlady

September 11, 2007 6:13 PM | Link to this

In our county, the $200,000 includes wages, the usual contributions that all employees enjoy such as a part of health insurance costs, plus some things that other employees have to pay out of their pockets, such as the employee part of the health insurance. In addition, our county pays for the employee part of life insurance, disability insurance, and some $7000 free and clear which is to be used for travel but does not have to be accounted for. Plus the usual association memberships, trips to conventions, etc. Whether it is taxed or not I don’t know, but it is income none the less, which doesn’t show up on the database.

By Sarah

September 11, 2007 6:38 PM | Link to this

I work in Bartow county and the schools there aren’t blazing any trails…it seems like everyone is just getting by. Dr. Boring works hard but that’s too much money for the size of the school system.

By Lisa B.

September 11, 2007 7:14 PM | Link to this

Great posts! I hope nobody in power reads the blog today or there go my dreams of getting rich via the school superintendent route :-)

Just kidding. I wouldn’t have the job. I do know that to be competitive, schools systems, like everyone else, must pay competitive salaries.

By Lisa B.

September 11, 2007 7:27 PM | Link to this

I just looked it up. Last year my superintendent made $120,000. That doesn’t make anyone rich; not even in South Georgia. I honestly can’t begrudge a superintendent that salary. Frankly, I think he’s underpaid for the headaches he puts up with.

By Jeff

September 11, 2007 7:58 PM | Link to this

HST2:

I say teachers have more stress because not only do they have the same legal hassles and parental hassles as Supers, teachers also have to deal with the repercussions of dumb a$$ moves by the Super AND create lesson plans AND grade papers AND AND AND AND….

A Super has the authority to delegate such that he really becomes nothing more than a final decision maker and figure head. If things blow up in his face, the most he is going to suffer is embarrasment - he will be rehired SOMEWHERE else in a similar position.

Teachers don’t have that luxury.

I’ll try to finish my list tomorrow and run some numbers and report back.

Y’all have fun!

By Lee

September 11, 2007 8:03 PM | Link to this

Trying to compare a governmental, bureaucratic hack to a corporate CEO is laughable. Most school system superintendents in Ga would equate to a mid-level manager’s position. The largest systems, such as a Cobb, Gwinnette, APS, might be a low level VP.

Looking at Beverly Hall’s salary, it does seem excessive, especially when you consider it is about 225% above the next level of administration. Sweet heart deal, no doubt.

Look at the bright side though, she gets run off from APS, she probably has a stellar career in sales. She sure sold the APS school board a bill of goods….

When public school systems pay PE teachers with Phd’s $90k, it doesn’t bode well that the salary structure has any resemblance to the real world.

By Lee

September 11, 2007 8:08 PM | Link to this

Here’s one more for you Jim D:

Director of FBI - $141,300

Beverly Hall overpaid? Nah…

By Ernest

September 11, 2007 8:14 PM | Link to this

SET may have a point in that the super job has ‘evolved’ in more of a management job. We usually see career educators in that job because TTWWADI (That’s the way we’ve always done it). I wonder what my friends in Cobb think after the fact by having a retired general as their super. By the same token, I can’t see an MBA from a top university wanting to run a school system either, especially one located in the inner city. You might get some idealistic candidates however once they get a taste of bureaucracy, they’ll look for the nearest management trainee programs.

Now on the flip side, once one has served their time, the retirement packages are not that bad. Is it still the average of the highest two years of salary? If one get out in time with their sanity in check, this will enable them to enjoy their golden years with some financial security.

By GW

September 11, 2007 8:26 PM | Link to this

Forget the salaries. What about the freebies and fringe benefits that we never know about that’s worth no telling what?

By jim d

September 12, 2007 8:30 AM | Link to this

Lee,

I think you may be a bit low. For some reason I thought Mueller had a base of around $145,00 with bonus incentives bringing it up to around $200,000.

I could be wrong though.

By sparta_man

September 12, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

Here is the problem I have with Superintendent AND teacher salaries. They can continue to turn out the same mediocre product each year or their results can actually go down and their salaries continue to increase. No performance objectives whatsomeever! They can go to a “college” on the 2nd floor of a bank building, get another piece of paper and VOILA! Another pay increase.

By Jeff

September 12, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this

An interesting note:

One Super’s salary that I thought would be acceptable (roughly $89K) turned out to be more than 6.5 times my per-student acceptable level! (Chattahoochee County’s Dalton Oliver)

By Jeff

September 12, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

I have the results from my study.

List of Top 10 Highest Paid (Per Student) Superintendents: 1) James B Wiley, Webster County ($404.58 / student) 2) Thomas A Rogers, Baker County ($384.63 / student) 3) Grady Miles, Clay County ($304.18/ student) 4) Renee P Brown, Taliaferro County ($299.10/ student) 5) Charles A Prince, Quitman County ($196.27/ student) 6) Charles E Gibson, Quitman County ($170.26/ student) 7) Charles L Hughes, Echols County ($163.30/ student) 8) Henry M Moylan, Stewart County ($159.04/ student) 9) Alvetta Butler, Calhoun County ($155.65/ student) 10) James N Holton, Glascock County ($136.93/ student)

Top 10 LOWEST Paid (Per Student) Superintendents 1) Joseph J Redden, Cobb County ($0.61/ student) 2) Frederick C Sanderson, Cobb County ($0.88/ student) 3) J Alvin Wilbanks, Gwinnett County ($1.92/ student) 4) Crawford Lewis, Dekalb County ($2.35/ student) 5) James Wilson, Fulton County ($2.37/ student) 6) Barbara M Pulliam, Clayton County ($3.65/ student) 7) Walker J Parish, Henry County ($4.57/ student) 8) John F O’Sullivan, Savannah-Chatham County ($4.96/ student) 9) Thomas B Lockamy, Savannah-Chatham County ($5.06/ student) 10) William Schofield, Hall County ($6.26/ student)

Top 10 Highest Salary (actual salary) Superintendent 1) Beverly Hall, Atlanta Public Schools ($347,288.95) 2) Charles G Lake, Richmond County ($278,754.83) 3) J Alvin Wilbanks, Gwinnett County, ($276,063.98) 4) John A Phillips, Muscogee County ($234,843.84) 5) Crawford Lewis, Dekalb County, ($233,655.10) 6) Eloise W Sorrell, Lanier County ($211,336.07) 7) Martha S Patterson, Bibb County ($210,986.86) 8) Frank R Petruzielo, Cherokee County ($205,801.87) 9) Steven Ballowe, Gainesville City ($203,560.32) 10) Kelly C Henson, Floyd County ($199,998.38)

Top 10 LOWEST Salary (actual salary) Superintendents 1) William P Johnson, Haralson County ($42,000) 2) Charles E Gibson, Quitman County ($43,416.65) 3) Charles A Prince, Quitman County ($50,050) 4) Larral L Ragsdale, Haralson County ($59,870.65) 5) H F Johnson, Appling County ($61,850.30) 6) Joseph J Redden, Cobb County ($64,207.48) 7) Hugh G Stinchcomb, Lamar County ($67,900) 8) Wanda S West, Twiggs County ($73,252.80) 9) Renee P Brown, Taliaferro County ($75,074.03) 10) Dorothy P Reynolds, Johnson County ($76,858.25)

By WhatWillBridgetDo?

September 12, 2007 6:24 PM | Link to this

Much as the AJC would like, you CANNOT have a legitimate discussion of Beverly Hall’s salary without mentioning the FALSIFIED FEDERAL DOCUMENTS she signed off on.

A Morningside principal fudges a resume’ and the AJC follows it to the ends of the Earth. Beverly Hall signs off on falsified federal documents on FORTY SCHOOLS and nary a peep from the AJC editorial board.

Not only that, the AJC editorial board allows Asst. Supt. Kathy Augustine to excuse the FALISFIED federal documents with this “…our reforms are working so well, there are no discipline problems to report.”

ZERO discipline problems in FORTY inner city schools? And the AJC allows editorial board says NOTHING about an excuse that even Baghdad Bob wouldn’t have the nerve to use?

Maybe that’s because Maureen Downey counts among her friends APS personnel. You think the readers know that little factiod when your writing those glowing editorials about Hall, Maureen?

It’s called FULL DISCLOSURE Maureen. Creative Loafing uses it all the time. (And perhaps because HE has integrity, John Sugg-a liberal no less-can write the truth that ONLY AJC editors don’t see as self evident: “Atlanta Public Schools suck.”)

Yes Maureen the word is INTEGRITY. Ask John Sugg what it means, or for that matter what FULL DISCLOSURE means. Or look it up in the dictionary. But don’t look in the mirror, you’ll NEVER find it there.

Forty schools, ZERO discipline problems? If Hall will lie about that, is there ANYTHING she won’t lie about to justify her salary?

Not as long as the AJC has her back. Be it for personal friendships, or business or political interests one doesn’t know, but Hall DOES know she has the editors in her back pocket, and as such, they are no less that silent conspirators in the academic genocide of THOUSANDS of APS students.

Teachers deserve better than a superintendent who will LIE (or sign off on LIES) to cover up physical assaults on teaching staff. Parents deserve better. Students deserve better. And READERS deserve better.

Maybe that is why, despite the best spin of the Atlanta Public Schools public relations firm, the Atlanta Journal Constitution, teachers are leaving in HUGE numbers. Enrollment is sinking like the Titanic.

And with the loss of credibility for engaging in such actions, maybe that’s why AJC subscription rates are dropping faster than Michael Vick’s Q rating.

Eventually the truth catches up with you.