Get Schooled

By One

August 21, 2007 8:18 AM | Link to this

First of all, the heroes should be in the home! Not some person that you really know very little about. As a parent, that is what you shoulld teach your child………..don’t idolize someone you don’t know!!! That’s superficial and dumb! Then when we (as parents) make mistakes, they already know, we’re only human! Allowing some stranger to have that kind of hold over my childs life is NOT gonna happen!

By Terry

August 21, 2007 8:33 AM | Link to this

I think most people with common sense do not idolize famous athletes-they are not infallable, they are human, and they make stupid decisions.

As far as school sports go—- some schools put WAaaaayyyy too much emphasis on their esteemed athletes, give them a free ride when they screw up and push the sports image of the school just a wee bit much.

By jim d

August 21, 2007 8:40 AM | Link to this

I agree One,

Athletes are not heros, at least they shouldn’t be. The real heores in this nation are the millions of men and women that have honorably served our country in the armed forces.

Kids that idolize athletes need to get a dose of reality. Seeing these guys fall doesn’t bother me in the least.

By Jeff

August 21, 2007 8:53 AM | Link to this

I look for heroes everywhere, but I try to look as deep behind the public facade as possible.

With Vick, you didn’t have to look very deep to know that he was just another thug. Wearing an expensive suit, yes. But a thug nonetheless.

Now, there ARE those in sports that I do admire. Nothing like hero-worship, but I like the men and how they carry themselves. David Robinson is actually one of those, Bridget. Primarily because of an interview he once gave. Someone asked him why he did some of the things he did as far as trying to distance himself from groupies and making sure he was never in a room alone with a female fan or some such, and hsi reply in my mind is the mark of a true man: “If someone is going to get hurt, it isn’t going to be my wife”.

Michael Shawn Hickenbottom is another one. Y’all may know the guy as Shawn Michaels.

Steve Borden - aka Sting - is another one. As is a guy that I choose to remember for everything prior to the last 48 hours of his life: Christopher Benoit.

Hank Aaron is another. The man is the epitome of style and class.

In the non-sports world, you have guys like Johnny Cash. You have Travis Tritt, Tim McGraw, Chuck Stanley, James Dobson, Ron Paul.

And in my personal life, you have guys like Mr. Harris, my dad, and several of the deacons in the church that I grew up in.

Some of those men are flawed, some tragically so. But from what I know about them, even the ones with serious flaws - with the exception of Benoit - overcame them to become true men of honor and integrity.

The two values that I admire most.

By bebe

August 21, 2007 9:01 AM | Link to this

What to tell the kids. You tell them that adults make mistakes just like kids. Sometimes they make bad mistakes. What you do not do is judge, like I see most of you doing so vehemently. Okay, he did wrong. He is not the only one. I would like to see this much energy in solving crimes in my county. When he pays his debt to society, will you still be judging? That is what is wrong with this country. There is no chance for rehabilitation, because people won’t have it. One more thing. I am white. My point here is not about Michael Vick, but that I want to teach my child that people do make mistakes and there is a price. I also want to teach them not to be so harsh to other people.

By V for Vendetta

August 21, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this

Uh-oh, I’m back …

It’s ignorant to think that kids are NOT going to worship famous athletes and/or hollywood actors and actresses. Does that make it right? Of course not, but it’s going to happen anyway. The problem is the thug culture that has pervaded many of our professional sports, namely football and basketball. I had the good fortune to play collegiate sports at a D1 school. What I saw from my confederates was a complete and utter disregard for reality and/or a complete lack of common sense.

If you asked any of the people I knew - especially the basketball and football players - what they were going to do when they got out of school, the response was almost unianimous: go pro. Nevermind the fact that half of these players were second or third string bench warmers that had about as much chance of making in the NFL as I had of making at a pro Hockey player. But they knew nothing else.

Education didn’t matter to them, they were raised to live off of their talents and nothing else. They idolized punk @ss thugs like Allen Iverson and Ron Artest who “kept it real.” Some people say that this is because the colleges use them, that athletics are too important in our high schools and colleges. Please.

Athletics were of prime importance to the Greeks and the Romans, but you don’t see their education suffering as a result. The dichotomy starts in the home. A home culture that values education on par with athletics is a succesful one because intelligence AND competition are being cultivated.

What happened to most of the guys I knew in college? They ended up working in or around the town, some at car dealerships, others at Wal-Mart, and some as admin gophers at the college itself. Talk about turning pro.

Vick falls? Good. Now lets hope DJ Shockley recovers so he can come back. I’ve had the pleasure of meeting DJ through some relatives who know him and I can say without a doubt that he is a classy guy with a good head on his shoulders and a kind heart. He is ever thankful for where he is at. Ditto Jeff Francoeur (whom I’ve also met). We need more Shockley’s and Francoeur’s in this country.

By Terry

August 21, 2007 9:28 AM | Link to this

Nonetheless, its about time that dog-fighting and the underworld of dog-fighting come to light. As a dog and animal lover— the whole thing is repulsive to me. And I am not a tree hugger in the least. But it is about time that people pay the price for these acts. Rehab— is that possible? I don’t have the answer to that.

While Vick will pay the price for misdeeds, do you really think he can be rehabbed? we can only hope so.

Stats say there are over 40,000 people involved in this scurge. The lawmakers must make the punishments much more strict for anyone involved in this disgusting activity..

And while I am at it, Georgia has to strengthen punishments of children who are victims of abuse too. Stiffer penalties for dog fighting and stiffer penalties for child abuse I say.

By jim d

August 21, 2007 9:30 AM | Link to this

No judgement here.

If I were to judge, I’d be talking about what I percieve as real character flaws.

I merely stated that athletes are not heros in my opinon. Many athletes that were quite talented have taken the fall from grace and everyone I can think of demonstarted some real character flaws, paid their dues for their indescretions and have moved on.

Vick has simply joined the ranks of many that have gone before him. The likes of Dwight Gooden, Darryl Strawberry, Bjorn Borg, Art Schlichter , and Mike Tyson to name but a few.

Bebe, thats just the facts.

By jim d

August 21, 2007 9:38 AM | Link to this

Hey V, welcome back.

I guess I’m just ignorant then. :-)

While I can understand a child appreciating a professional athletes skills I guess I don’t understand how they could “worship” them for those abilities. But hey, I guess it does happen or there wouldn’t be groupies.

By jim d

August 21, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

I think the bottom line here is simply that Vick had addiction he was plagued by and succumbed to.

What to tell the kids? Just tell them the results are the results of giving into temptation and violating the law.

By bebe

August 21, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this

I’m not disputing the facts. But give them a chance to turn it around. Consider how he got to this point. He was given an inflated ego starting in high school, then college (I am sure the alum gave him many perks)and given this status in the NFL, he was used then tossed out by his so called friends. Not disputing he should pay, just that when he has served his time, he should be given a chance to reconstruct his life. I am sure his family needs a break from this.

By Janine

August 21, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this

While I agree that there are many things that would better use the energy exerted on Vick’s problem,I have a problem with the admonition that one must not be judgmental. Adults and kids must make judgments all day,every day. Shall I do this, or not?….Is this a good person to hang out with, or is this not a good thing to do? Do I admire the choice a public figure [politician, actor, athlete,] makes… or do I not.? I have often heard parents caution their young children to choose their friends wisely….which means….make a good judgment. I don’t think I really see anthing wrong with making the judgment that Michael Vick has participated in a despicable activity for which he will pay a very high price. I would hope that the young children that admire his accomplishments on the field would also make this judgment and perhaps do what in the old days would be referred to as ‘learnin’ a life lesson’ from his troubles.

If there is ever a choice/judgment someone has to make between Vick and a person who has made better choices….well, sorry, but IMHO Vick loses. OOPs..another judgment.

By SET

August 21, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this

Vick and people like him are not heroes and never have been. One of the character development studies needed for schools is to dissassemble people and personalities such as the popular sports and entertainment figures, and learn what loathsome people they often are. Students can start with historical studies about drug use, violence, wife-beating and other pathologies typically found in certain fields and personalities. No one has a right to be shocked when your nose is rubbed in “typical”.

Making sure that teenagers learn early to recognize traits and expect trouble may save their lives and their freedom as they try to survive in this brave new world. It’s called profiling. One writer described it as “the gift of fear”. Girls are usually the most clueless about male behaviors, which is part of why they wind up victims more often than men. If they have a father in the house they might have a better chance in being aware of what is abnormal behavior. Since most of them don’t, the schools need to cover more so that their “graduates” wear better.

Maybe the schools can work cultural anthropology & abnormal psych into english and history classes.

No one should have been surprised by OJ Simpson (gang member from Hunter’s Point, SF) Mike Tyson (fatherless thug?) and Michael Vick. When you date or marry such people, go up to their rooms in the middle of the night, or get into multimillion dollar contracts with them you have no right to whine “what happened!”. That goes double for trying to make a movie with Lindsay Lohan. People are people. Most are not subtle about what they are all about.

If you are trained to see what is right in front of you (it takes a lot of training) you won’t keep running into the brick walls.

Now have we ever discussed the VD rates in urban public high schools? And which VDs are running rampant? The stats are out there, and the students continue to say upon dx that “how could this happen to me!!” They looked clean…..(all 10 of them)

By Janine

August 21, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this

Agreed, bebe…“he should be given a chance to reconstruct his life. However,RE: “He was given an inflated ego starting in high school, then college (I am sure the alum gave him many perks)and given this status in the NFL”

This is the plight of many if not most gifted athletes . However,all do not engage in criminal activity because of this. Therein lies the rub..in his own judgment, not that of the public.

By Sam

August 21, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this

Agreed, bebe…“he should be given a chance to reconstruct his life. However,RE: “He was given an inflated ego starting in high school, then college (I am sure the alum gave him many perks)and given this status in the NFL”

This is the plight of many if not most gifted athletes . However,all do not engage in criminal activity because of this. Therein lies the rub..in his own judgment, not that of the public.

By jim d

August 21, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

BTW,

When talking to the kids about fallen heros be sure to point them to this site.

http://www.militarycity.com/valor/honor.html

By jim d

August 21, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

Poetic justice!

According to a CBS report. About a dozen bright red Vick jerseys have been donated — often accompanied by financial contributions — to the Atlanta Humane Society since he was indicted last month. The shelter uses them for dog blankets, and to clean up after the animals.

Ya gotta luv it.

By jim d

August 21, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

Ok all you dog lovers, here’s a chance to put up.

http://www.vickletthedogsout.com/?Click=2

By Nel

August 21, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

Good to see you’re still out there Jim.

We mbrought the Vick situation up witho ur son and asked him what he thought. Teh answer was slanted to what he’s heard on TV. We had a discussion and used the opportunity to point out that there are consequences for your actions and that everyone makes mistakes, some worse than others, and you have to be careful of the things that you do and the people you associate with. We don’t know Michael Vick so we don’t know if he’s a good or bad person as many people say, just that he didn’t take the time to think about what he was doing and got into a bunch of trouble that he could go to jail for because he broke the law. Yes, there are a lot of people even here in Atlanta who seem to enjoy dogfighting. He thought they were weird. We also went on Wikipedia and looked up the history of dogfighting. End of discussion. Another learning opportunity.

This particular situation is a life lesson and not a time to put an adult’s prejudices into a child’s mind. The news media has repeated time and again the possible punishment. Kids understand better sometimes than adults.

By jim d

August 21, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

Hi Nel,

We have not heard the last of Michael Vick. Not by a long shot.

Because Americans love a comeback even more than we love our dogs.

His career in Atlanta is indeed over. Vick will not be a Falcon again. Not just because of the animal cruelty case but because the Michael Vick Experiment was coming to an end anyway. The owner, coaches and teammates were all starting to tire of Vick’s various episodes. His welcome on that team was slowly but certainly eroding.

The way I have it figured, he’ll still be young when he gets out and being the extremely gifted athlete he is he’ll get another shot. He will be back!

By Nel

August 21, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this

Jim:

You are so right. Actually, just about all the pundits who are beating him up right now, have said the exact same thing. He’ll be back somewhere. Unfortunately, we live in a society that loves to push people to the top as quickly as possible, then revel when the get their “comeuppance”. The biggest lesson here is for those young men out there the believe that you don’t rat out your “boys”, guess what, your “boys” will give you up in a heartbeat given the right amoung of pressure. Another reason to remind kids, “Show me who your friends are and I’ll tell you who you are” or “If you lay down with dogs you’re bound to get fleas”. Grandma knew what she was talking about!

By Teacher, Too

August 21, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

I am spending this week teaching my students the difference between heroes and celebrities. Then, they have to find someone who meets the criteria of a hero- dictionary definition- and research that person. What is it about that person that makes him/her a candidate for being a hero? Students may not use a celebrity- I am trying to get them to think of people other than Hollywood stars and famous athletes. Students may use family members.

It’s been an interesting activity thus far. I don’t know what the students will turn in, but at least we’ve discussed the differences between celebrities (athletes included) and heroes.

I will mention that Warrick Dunn came up in class as a hero. Just because your brought up in a poor environment doesn’t mean you have to give in to it. Ben Carson is another example. You want to read an inspiring autobiography- read Gifted Hands by Ben Carson. He is a real hero!

By Teacher, Too

August 21, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

By the way, Tony Barhart has a great article on his blog today. As he writes, “Know WHO you are!”

By SET

August 21, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this

I actually think that Vick is being treated unfairly - not the arrest and prosecution which I think is a slap on the wrist. But I think people like Nancy Grace are unfairly demonizing him because he didn’t live out their fantasy of what he is and always was.

He is no better or worse than what he always was. And as far as his treatment of the poor puppies…. they were pit bulls you know, this is what is typically done with pit bulls in the ghetto. It may be illegal to society at large but…

I’ve seen more venom hurled at Vick than at people who torture their women, children and parents. What do you expect to happen when you hand a 26 year old from the hood 130 million dollars??

The bottom line is that people need to get their heads out of the clouds and look through their own eyes. It’s really hard to see what’s right in front of your nose, it takes training and discipline.

That training and discipline used to be part of grade school - in the ’60s the Nuns made us study propaganda techniques by 7th grade (they were mad at Castro & the USSR). George Orwell’s books were required reading in my public high school. One of the many bio’s we had to read by 8th grade (such as Thomas Edison, Mdme Curie, Fleming, Pastuer) was P.T. Barnum’s. (“There’s a sucker born every minute!”)

The products of the public schools around here have little to no analytical skills. Those are stunted to make them easily indoctrinated. They are brought up to worship losers. Young adults nowadays believe the last person that talked to them.

By SET

August 21, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this

People don’t “make mistakes” as much as they do what they are programmed to do. Calling a long course of conduct a “mistake” is part of the indoctrination we see in the schools.

Leftists don’t want to see anyone held accountable for what they are and what their values are - so when somebody is finally “caught” to their insane standards of satisfaction they dismiss the behavior as a “mistake” as if it was a young puppy defecating on the rug.

It’s another way of yelling “ignore that man behind the curtain.”

By Blind Homer

August 21, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

Good job Janine. Charles Murray wrote this about being judgmental, “The gifted should not be taught to be nonjudgmental; they need to learn how to make accurate judgments. They should not be taught to be equally respectful of Aztecs and Greeks; they should focus on the best that has come before them, which will mean a light dose of Aztecs and a heavy one of Greeks.” Vick, clearly, is an Aztec. Most heroes are Leona Helmsley’s ‘little people’, the ones that go to work every day, pay their taxes, raise their families, obey the law and live moral lives.

By Lee

August 21, 2007 8:58 PM | Link to this

Aaaaarrrrrgggghhhh

Not another Michael Vick article.

Michael Vick can neither raise my taxes nor lower the price of gas. As a result, I really don’t care what happens to him.

All this talk about “sports heroes” makes my stomach turn.

A professional athlete is an entertainer. Nothing more. Nothing less. Just like the guy on the street corner playing the saxophone, hoping someone will throw a couple of bucks in the hat.

There are many professional athletes who leverage their fame and fortune to the benefit of society. These people I would classify as exemplary or model citizens.

Heroes? Never.

You want to talk about heroes, let us begin with our country’s Founding Fathers. These were men who lived with the knowledge that, if caught, or if the colonists lost the Revolutionary War, then they most likely would be put to death. Many lost all their posessions and members of their family during the war, but they persisted and created this country.

I’ll tell you something else. Not everyone who pins on a badge, wears a fireman’s hat, or marches off to war is a hero. Some are. Most aren’t.

We’ve used the HERO moniker so much, that many have forgotten the true meaning of heroism.

By Darrel

August 27, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

children want someone to look up to. I remember growing up in a community where we had block-clubs, parents that teamed up to volunteer for mentoring go-cart building and tracks, committees that purchased wood for gathering teams of teens to rebuild at community centers to keep them busy and give them skills, neighborhood fashion show competitions that taught the kids etiquette of fine dining and sophistication skills and created an atmosphere where kids could go on formal dates, and residents that would be given a prize by the community leaders for competing in having the prettiest yard. It kept down the teen pregnancy rate, gave us kids something to look forward to on the weekends and summers and gave us ideas for career planning. Can we try to bring back those days?