Get Schooled

By Jeff

August 17, 2007 8:47 AM | Link to this

1) True. But this “education” need not come from public-funded Indoctrination Centers. Yes, paper helps grease the wheel, but bottom line is that a truly hard working person with no such paper will be employed FAR longer than a slacker with paper.

2)Not always true. My own parents are both HS grads, yet I am now a college grad. And mom is pushing me to get a Master’s just as hard as she EVER pushed me into college in the first place, maybe even harder!

3) True, but it refers to both of the above. Un”educated” hard workers attract mills, factories, and the like (mostly blue collar jobs) to their towns. People with paper attract more white collar jobs to their town. What truly matters is work ethic. If you have a town that decides to go from white collar to blue collar, it can happen - and we see this across the country - where you have century old mills and bleeding edge technology firms within a mile of each other, both providing jobs and revenue to the town.

By Lee

August 17, 2007 8:52 AM | Link to this

Here are some points I’d like Mr. Dolinger to consider:

• If you are going to compare Ga to other states, make sure you are comparing apples to apples. In one of your slides, you show the variances in test scores by race. Well, if you are going to compare GA to MA, for example, compare white GA students to white MA students, etc. Demographics plays a HUGE role in the state by state analysis.

• Location, location, location. When looking at unemployment rates by county, where you are located is much more important than your education level. My county was one of the “red” counties for drop outs. Guess what, we are located near the expanded metropolitan area and have low unemployment. The folks in south Ga are not so lucky.

• Education means much more than “book larn’in”. Depending on which study you read, only 20-25% of jobs require a college education. Our school systems are now focused almost exclusively on a “college prep” curriculum. This means that you are effectively not serving 75-80% of your students who would be better equipped to survive in the job market with technological training.

• Why is it that all you “education types” think that the measure of a person is how many college degrees they have?

One last thing, the Chamber of Commerce is predominately biased toward BIG business. Look up the main drivers and employers of our economy, it is the small to medium businessman.

By WFC

August 17, 2007 9:25 AM | Link to this

My heart goes out to any audience subjected to a speech by Dr. Dollinger. I survived many when “Steve the Doll” floundered around as Supt. of Fulton Co. Schools. My condolences, what a dullard drone.

By decaturparent

August 17, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this

Lee is right on point. Maybe he should be giving the speeches instead of Dollinger.

By SET

August 17, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

Public School educrats have no intention of improving the schools. Look at the real mission statement as shown by their behavior. Urban Public Schools are only in existance as indictrination factories for the proletariat. Some people working in them are led to think otherwise as long as they don’t step back and look at the products.

It’s similar to a Soviet consumer goods factory making products no one want to buy which pile up in warehouses. Here the warehouses are the prisons, welfare & rehab centers.

In order to be a “school” system we would need to go back to what worked. Testing, Segregation by ability and tracking with lots of industry driven vocational training.

Look at San Francisco. In a sea of rotten Bay Area Schools with percent reading to grade levels between zero to 20%, Elitist Lowell (Public) High School reports a reading to level rate of 94%. Lowell graduates go to nationally ranked Universities. The Educrats must hate this, but the system was set up generations ago and they can’t change Lowell’s exclusive citywide application process. Here a public school still functions. Because of testing, segregation and tracking.

And since affirmative action was made illegal in CA public schools the Chinese are free to take as many of the total seats at Lowell High as they have Chinese to fill them. The whites can just go to Catholic Schools which have AA (Lowell up to a recent years had Chinese Caps on admissions to limit the asian student population so as to preserve some seats for whites. Blacks were not an issue because very few Blacks wanted anything to do with a school full of competitive SF Chinese students.

The score is only as low as 94% in reading because some of the Chinese are ESL. The math score is not reported.

By teach overseas

August 17, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

Bridget-

Reading over a number of these blogs lately, I have to agree with some of the posters who are wondering why you don’t do some of your own investigative reporting. You seem to take what the educrats give you and print them as the gospel truth.

You have been on this blog for enough time now to see that much of the crap that handed over to the press is just that— crap. So why don’t you take some of this informatation given to you by teachers and DO something with it- be a real reporter— not just be a pansy for the educrats. This could bee your real contributation to education here in Georgia.

By jim d

August 17, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this

TOS,

Think she’d be able to find any teachers willing to “go on record?”

I kinda doubt it myself.

By jim d

August 17, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this

In defense of any reporter.

y’all seem to forget what they are to do. “report the news”, not create it. When those with the facts come forward a reporter can substantiate their story—otherwise it’s pure conjecture. Personally I prefer my news to be factual, so y’all lighten up.

By Jeff

August 17, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

jim:

If she wants to do an article about student abuse of teachers state wide, I’ll GLADLY go on record…

By jim d

August 17, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

Excellent! Jeff, that could happen.

But the point I’m trying to make with some of the teachers here is that she can no more report on something that is supposed to be covered by someone else any more than a teacher can just walk into another teachers classroom and start teaching.

By anonymous

August 17, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

How typical Jeff— wouldn’t expect anything less from you.. YOu’ve been harping on that since you began blogging— why don’t you get involved in with your legislators instead of constantly whining.. It makes you look bad

By terry

August 17, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this

I have documents and check registers from my school district to show where money is wasted. If brigett wants contact me, please do baradine@bellsouth.net

The only way to make them accountable is to get it in the press and file complaints with the Office of Inspector General and the Attorney General. That usually gets some attention.

The bloggers that constantly weigh in here need to learn how to really investigate a school system— Brigett I have info for you. contact me.

By teach overseas

August 17, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

Jim d— dear-

We have done this round to death- so I’m not going to start it again.

However, I do think that is IS a reporters job to do some good old fashioned snooping. To see what is behind some of the rosy visions that the various overstuffed shirts have handed down from on high. After all, Bridget did (I assume) go to journalism school. I’m respecting her as a professonal- and offering a challenge.

As for finding teachers willing to go on record- well probably not many who would like to stay employed- but every year there are THOUSANDS of teachers who leave the profession and I’m sure would love their stories to become more than cocktail party horror stories.

Let’s take this blog from being a whiny t** for tat posting and do some real good with it. We have lost a number of good contributers over the past few months- I’m thinking that most of them are bored. I know I am.

So Bridget- what say you?

By Fed Up in Forsyth County

August 17, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

I think Brigitt needs to report on the Current Federal Court Case in Forsyth County— which clearly demonstrates the problem in our district and many districts in GEorgia.

School Higher Ups answer to NO one- as evident in depositions taken this week..

They are obviously protected by their School Attorneys, School system risk management companies and Business Partnerships. The only way to change this is make these people accountable and step down as it should happen in Forsyth County.

How many hours are they giving to testimony and depositions when they should be administrating and doing their job.

I will be obtaining deposition documents on this very important case in Forsyth County—- Its time the people of this district and Every other district learns what educrats do and don’t do, who is protecting them and the motives behind such.

Retaliation on teachers is a huge problem in Georgia—- as evident in this case. MANY OF US TAXPAYERS ARE FED UP. There is no excuse for this anymore.

Georgia will remain at the bottom unless we exposes educrats for what they are.

By Jeff

August 17, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

Bridget:

As much as I hate to say it, I’m agreeing with teach overseas here. You’ve got the resources here to do some real investigative reporting, if you (or, sometimes more accurately, your bosses) really want to get in to it.

You’ve got jim and others on the financial side of things, you’ve got me and possible WWBD on the physical assault/ unsafe work environment side of things (and I’m sure that if you asked around privately you could get names of even more people to contact, since most teachers know at least SOMEONE who has gone through similar ordeals as me. Though whether or not they would be willing to go on record may be a different animal..)

You’ve got Lisa, Old School, L2T, and several others at all grade levels that can give you what currently-in-classroom teachers see and experience, regardless of what State BOE/ GAE/PAGE/MACE are saying.

Even though some of us (me in particular) are flawed vessels as far as taking an outright legal fight on our own, that is one of the things that reporters have always been good for: exposing these stories and shaping public opinion.

Yes, it will mean that YOUR name will be on the stories, so YOU will be the one catching most of the fire. But that is the stuff Pulitzers are made of…

By for the teachers

August 17, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

You want to get something done, file state and federal complaints, that gets their attention.

Ethics Complaints work nicely too!!

Do it on the educrats— not the teachers— the teachers are stuck between a rock and a hard place in Georgia

Contact MACE for more information www.theteachersadvocate.com —

PAGE and GAE have not been very helpful to teachers of late. MACE is the better way to go to protect your job. If you join MACE— then start blabbling.. That will help the taxpayers and parents help you.

By big business buster

August 17, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

schools systems are nothing more than big business. if you are a parent and know a little about business, understand it and swallow it.

If you have a child receiving assistance from a contract service provider that has been referred by the school district— ask that contract service provider for a full disclosure of their contract with the school system. They may have financial ‘agreement’ as well as collecting payment from you.

Ooops that’s the dirty little secret in Georgia.

PS- if you are ever in a dispute wiht the school system AND you are using a contract service provider— don’t expect to have them side with you.

The way around this— contract service providers are bound by their ethics codes— yes they are, don’t let them kid you. Many of these licensed therapist are bound by ethics to side with the child’s best interest AND NOT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.

If you suspect there is something funny going on - don’t hesitate to drop them and go with someone else. Competition OFTEN keeps people honest.

Another thing— buyer beware— Understand who your contract service provider is going to side with BEFORE you obtain services from them.

Heads up for all the sp.ed. families out there.

By Terry Baradine

August 17, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this

Brigitt I can help you get some really good stories out there on Education. Feel free to contact me baradine@bellsouth.net

The TEACHERS ARE NOT TO BLAME!!

By JustMe

August 17, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

Guys, I think that we are all missing the purpose of Bridget and are giving her too much credit and/or authority.

I would bet that the ajc pays her some meager wage to maintain a couple of blogs and may do other minor stuff. Her pay and/or job in no way includes a major investigative reporting project such as that mentioned. Don’t get me wrong - this investigation should be done. I just don’t think that Bridget is the one that can/will/should do it.

By SET

August 17, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this

I misspoke about affirmative action in the context of the SF elite public school. Children who are “smart” enough to be born of a politician are always admitted to Lowell according to friends in the City. Among other things, that serves as a powerful disincentive for the politicians to change the Lowell High’s exclusivity. In other Bay Area cities the politicians usually have to budget as much as 20k a year per child for private schools. It’s a nice perk for the politicos also. Get elected and even your duller kids get a better school.

Family income is not determinative for getting into Lowell because high scoring (high value?) recent immigrants and working class Asians are all over the place. It is exclusive mainly in IQ level.

As far as the blogger coments about changing the system - Light is the best disinfectant.

This blog and others like it are important to the extent Educrats are exposed for what they are and made a laughingstock when they run around telling lies in public about what they are all about and what their failure factories are doing. The SF Chronicle running the special section of the paper every year with the reading to level & math scores of every single public school in the Bay Area is disinfectant. That publication is instantly trasmitted to the property values - price per square ft - of the area each school covers.

If AJC has the principal Education Blog the other papers websites may emulate it. What we all do in openly debating here what is going on in the public schools and why can affect policy. Directly complaining to the Educrats is worse than no good. The only thing they understand is public derision - and being forced to understand that like the goods from the USSR factories being tossed into warehouses, their students are going on the “do not hire” lists - and it’s all their fault not the students or their families.

If the US cities could take the products of illiterate, single parent and immigrant families in early 20th Century urban America and housebreak them into productive people we can also regardless of color or zip code. If we need to whoop some a* in the process (literally or figuratively), that is not a problem. Kids need excercise anyway.

We could start by pressuring the school districts to operate academic schools segregated to the top performing students open to districtwide enrollment. Just like San Francisco. How progressive.

By Terry Baradine

August 17, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this

JustMe What do you suggest? I am all ears. BTW —

Kim Fettig of CBS News is doing an investigative report on psycho-ed centers across Georgia.— That will be interesting.

If you are parent or former teacher of a psycho ed facility, consider contacting Kim Fettig of www.cbs46.com

Sorry Brigett—- don’t get offended, I just received a heads up that this investigation is going on and wanted to share that

By jim d

August 17, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

3rd time in the past two months.

Jim d and just me agree. Mark that one down!!

By Edron

August 17, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

Terry I very much agree with your suggestion re: working with the Attorney General, the press, etc. That SHOULD be the way it works and should get action. I know people that went that route, and even went farther, and nothing happened. Please keep on, though, it’s a very worthy and hopefully worthwhile cause.

By Terry Baradine

August 17, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

Hey Edron or anyone else

If everyone writes a letter about a particular issue to the attorney general and get a large signature base or petition, that is the way to go.

We have an issue in Forsyth County Violating Georgia Open Records Laws under Code Section 45-6-6— Mr, Stephen Ritter of the A.G. office has received NUMEROUS complaints by citizens in Forsyth County— Brigitt - could you follow up on this..

Try it in your county. Bring a reporter with you when you want to look at financial data. You have to engage the reporter in every stage of an investigation and follow what’s going on in the community.

I can help ANYONE do this— send me an email. If I turn up something interesting, i give it to the press- its like I am doing the investigation for them,, nothing like making their jobs easier and getting good relationships with local press. You have to relate to people and make friends — That’s how to get it done.

Forsyth Parents/Teachers — you are welcome to join my group to improve forsyth schools— EVery body is valuable, and every opinion in the group matters.

WE bring the issues forward, investigate, root out the issue and offer resolutions— either as a group or advise people individually.

This is what needs to be done in each county— coalitions directed by the people.

It important for everybody to Attend Local School Council Meetings and School Board Meetings.. I like to show up with a drink and a snack and take notes. And then take those quotes and float them everywhere.

If anyone is interested in investigating your district contact me at baradine@bellsouth.net I have sample template letters, etc you can use.

By WhatWillBridgetDo?

August 17, 2007 6:22 PM | Link to this

jim d,

I’m glad someone else on this forum sees Bridget for what she is and is willing to call her on it.

By yesisamworried

August 20, 2007 8:12 AM | Link to this

Here goes — The AJC has little incentive to do much work in the suburbs — as they have very little readership in the burbs. That is why they recently consolidated or elimated much of their suburban coverage. The AJC is perceived to be liberal and that doesn’t sit well in the very RED suburban communities around Metro ATlanta.

Many suburban communities have local papers who should be much more invested in covering local issues than the AJC. Sometimes they are and sometimes the articles just fill the space that isn’t sold to advertisers.

For the close in Atlanta, the AJC does a pretty good job. Nothing that the City of Atlanta schools do goes without attention or scruntity. My friends and I use to joke that if an administrator in the City of Decatur schools sneezes it would make the paper. DeKalb is more complicated as reportedly, the Superintendent has used the race card on more than one occassion to get the AJC to back off when they are reporting something negative.

Keep in mind, that study after study shows that most people are satisfied with THEIR child’s school and school system. There isn’t such overwhelming demand for negative coverage. This blog is just a handful of regulars, most people don’t really care.

By Bridget Gutierrez

August 20, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

Folks: Sorry I didn’t have a chance to respond sooner, but I was out of the office at the end of last week.

I know that some of you consider blogging to be a contact sport. You should know by now that that’s not my style. I’ve never responded to personal attacks and I’m not going to start today.

That said, all of the issues being raised here have been addressed before. My philosophy on blogging hasn’t changed, even though my job recently has.

I have more responsibilities outside of running Get Schooled than ever before. But I haven’t ever short-changed the blog because of that — because I still believe it provides something valuable to the community.

Of course, this is an interactive medium; so, ultimately, it is what the community makes of it. If you don’t find it interesting, maybe you’re tired of listening to the same people (including me) posting day after day. You have several options:

Write a guest blog. I run guest blogs as often as I can. As I’ve said before, I do this for several reasons, one of which is so that new viewpoints can be expressed and new topics covered.

Guest blogs have done extremely well in the past and I’d love to run more of them. So pick a topic, write up your thoughts about it and e-mail it to me at bgutierrez@ajc.com.

Contribute to the conversation. Thousands of people view this blog every month, but only a few regulars comment. If you don’t agree with what people are saying, then say so. If you have a different view of the situation, let others know. Get involved.

Suggest topics for blogging. Some of you have done this before. I appreciate you e-mailing me links to stories from other publications or letting me know what you want to talk about. I take those ideas into consideration when I pick topics. But I rarely blog on stories that are happening outside of Georgia.

This blog is intended for a local audience. It’s great that we have readers from all over the country — SET your contributions are greatly appreciated — but my primary purpose is to serve readers here in metro Atlanta.

Finally, as I’ve said before, I sometimes am amazed at the passion that you have for education issues. It’s heartening to see so many of you care so much about what others never give a second thought to.

Just remember that we’re all here for the same reason: We care about schools and what happens inside of them.

By Jessica Young

August 22, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this

I cannot understand why the board would blankly deny our efforts and assume there is no support for this in our county. Public schools, privately ran, the statistics alone regarding crime, attendance, and test scores speak volumes to our community. We WELCOME charter schools and hope that someone “on the inside” can work with us for the agenda of our children, not the govt.