Get Schooled

By Jeff

August 8, 2007 8:28 AM | Link to this

My general comment here is that perhaps we are doing TOO MUCH for “special education”.

In that, particularly I mean this: I agree with what Bill Engvall says about 99% of “ADD”:

“I was at a teacher parent conference one time. The teacher asked me and my wife if there was a history of ADD in our family. At this point, I’m staring around, looking out the window… ‘BILL!’ My wife said, ‘She wants to know if there is a history of ADD in our family.’ Of course! We can add, subtract, multiply… ‘M-O-R-O-N! She means Attention Deficit Disorder.’ Oh, yeah, I had that one time when I was a kid for about 30 seconds. ‘WHAT????’ My dad was talking, I wasn’t paying attention, SMACK!!! I got my attention back.”

In other words, I am a STRONG believer that we have labeled FAR TOO MANY kids as “Special Ed” because the parents are LAZY and/ or not doing their jobs. (In the case of most “learning disorders”, it is generally the student lazy/ not doing their jobs.)

I have a question though: Is it sad that, particularly on certain bits, I can quote Engvall nearly word for word? Note that I did the above from MEMORY - I didn’t look it up or listen to it recently (within the past month or so) at ALL. And what’s worse is that I can also do it with Ron White! :(

By Fulton County Mom

August 8, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this

Jeff, I have to disagree with some of what you said. I concur that many children labled ADD or Sp Ed are probably neither of those things.

The teacher my eldest had last year was offended when I told her that my child was ‘acting up’ (cleaning her desk during the lesson) because she was BORED. Yet, the child had already understood the assignment so in her mind she ‘checked out’ and went on to other more ‘important’ tasks that needed to be done.

My youngest child has twice been recommended for ADD (and twice found not to be). However, while she will ‘do her own thing’ its only if the adult in charge will let her get by with it. The school calls me incessantly to tell me they need me to ‘talk to her at home’. By the time I get home and deal with it she pretty much doesn’t care….She cares she is in trouble, but to her she ‘got away with it’ because the teacher didn’t do anything.

IF the school/teachers would actually control their classroom and discipline accordingly, then we might have kids behaving.

Additionally, if we separated people by their ability (best readers in class ‘x’ and worst in class ‘z’ etc) then school could actually TEACH these kids so they would not get bored. The absolute worst thing we have ever done in the American Education system was try to ‘level the playing field’ so all kids get the same….However what do we expect since Teddy Roosevelt we have been on a slow decline to Socialism (and school supplies is another area where this shows) and of course infiltrating the schools and brainwashing them while they are young should give us pleanty of the farm animals for the pigs to rule. (For those who don’t get try it Animal Farm).

By Jeff

August 8, 2007 9:39 AM | Link to this

FCM:

TRUST me, if I was allowed to use MY discipline techniques in the school, you wouldn’t see much of what you see there.

But remember, most of my techniques revolve around pain of some form - typically physical, though if the physical isn’t working I have other (more insidious) methods - and children are not allowed to experience pain in any form, at any location, at any time these days…

By Public Baby Sitters

August 8, 2007 9:59 AM | Link to this

At no time shall you make individuals responsible for thier own actions or short comings. Its a disease, not a choice. Make them feel good about themselves at all times.

Public schools these days are turning the kids into mindless consuming sheeple whos most difficult choice is paper or plastic.

By FCM

August 8, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this

Jeff, if you mean pain to mean corporal punishment, I admit I think that should only be done by parent. However laps around a gym due to tardiness to gym class, sitting on bench doing your classwork at recess because you choose not to do it at class time, or silent lunch for repetive disruption of class would not harm a student and would instill discipline.

The school has told me repeatedly that they want the kid to sit down, not cause a problem, and to shut up-including not asking questions or providing information on the topic being discussed. They have told me that the do not want to deal with it that they see it all as the parent….that is where I disagree…it is the parent and school TOGETHER developing a plan of action that makes sense (like the ideas I gave above)….I had to write 300 word essays on specific topics for failure to bring my gym clothes to class, instrument to band, or a host of other offenses…I did these during my lunch period…and I have to say it did not harm my psyche, my esteem, or my social apptitude. It did probably teach me several things, and instill discipline in me.

I am also told detention does not work in young people but suspension does….can someone tell me how this helps the ‘problem’ child?

The current system is stupid…the methods don’t work…and laying it ALL back on the parent is not the solution….However the parent is the primary resource to be consulted to get it fixed—with valid suggestions that don’t get met with ‘state won’t let us do that’ (all of the aforementioned discipline methods apparently are not allowed by the state).

By lisa

August 8, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

My daughter had to go through numerous evaluations to determine that she had a learning disability. NOT ADD. All the students in Special Education are not ADD. Most have a real learning disorder. Short Term Memory problems, Dyslexia, Auditory issues are real problems that need to be addressed. These kids are not dumb and don’t need to be slapped around because they have a more difficult time learning. All of you who don’t have a child with a learning disability should shut your mouths. Until you go through it, you have NO idea.

By Randy

August 8, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

Jeff, if you ever have a child that goes to school and works so hard to understand and learn like the rest of the students but can’t seem to quite keep up. A child that gets frustrated in 1st grade because they can’t understand why the words in their head don’t seem to come out right or when they get to 3rd grade they can’t seem to write their thoughts in order no matter how hard they try. Would you feel that some extra one on one attention through special education was TOO MUCH. I don’t think so.

Shame on you for saying something like that. Eveyone deserves a chance to learn even if it may take a little more effort.

By Jeff

August 8, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this

lisa:

You’d better learn real quick just who you’re talking to. I don’t have a child with a learning disability.

I have one.

It is called Asperger’s Syndrome, and it is a form of Autism.

TRUST me, I know ALL TOO WELL what I speak of. I deal with it on a DAILY basis, and on a level FAR more intimate than even that of parent/ child.

FCM:

The pain I speak of is multi-faceted. Back hand slaps and duct tape are favored methods for shutting kids up. Wall squats (back against the wall in a seated position, with nothing supporting you but your own leg muscles) are a favored method for kids that keep getting out of their seats. Sensory Deprivation/ Isolation chambers are great for a variety of offenses.

But I do have even milder forms: an inch square of tape on the board, just high enough up the wall that the kid has to stand on tip toes to keep their nose in it - and that is exactly what they must do: keep their nose in it. (Actually used that one one time back in TOSS. Let him out of it when his class came back from lunch though.)

Oh, and that is another method that we should be allowed to use: total withholding of lunch break.

And, more importantly: The RIGHT of the teacher to put a kid in the hospital if he assaults the teacher.

By Kat

August 8, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

Having worked in special ed in our public schools, I think that we definitely need changes in the policies. We had students who were so medically fragile that they came to school by private ambulance, which the school had to pay for. I’m tallking about profoundly brain-damaged children with no possiblilty of any improvement. I am all for identifying and helping kids who can be helped, but we need a non-progress clause: if a child has made no measurable progress in two years, care of that child should pass to another state agency, not the school system. Kids like that are a huge drain on our educational resources. I believe the dignity and value of every person, and that all children should have a fair chance, but resources that could be used to help kids who can really learn are being diverted to provide what is basically just life support, not education.

By Jeff

August 8, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

Randy:

Yes, I would feel that one extra second of special ed attention on that kid was TOO MUCH.

He needs to work harder. He should KNOW that because of his disadvantage, he has to work 10 times as hard and 10 times as long as the “normal” kids and he should actively do so himself, without any help or encouragement.

Why can I take such a position? Because I have lived it, am living it, and will live it for the rest of my life.

Granted, the AS made academic knowledge FAR easier for me than that of even a “normal”, much less someone with a TRUE learning disability. (Even those are “diagnosed” FAR more often than they actually occur.)

But if you change your understanding of your wording to reflect emotional issues rather than academic ones, you will better understand what I have lived with for over 24 years and will continue to live with for the rest of my life.

There is a REASON I have to be shielded somewhat from the general public. There is a REASON that I CONSTANTLY have to have someone in my life who truly understands me - and I have been blessed in that area with my parents, my former mentor, and my fiancee.

Because, as I said above: if you change your understanding of your 10:12 post from an academic perspective to an emotional one, you begin to get an idea of what I live with every day.

And guess what? Academic issues last 13-20 years, depending on your exact goals. Asperger’s/ Autism lasts a LIFETIME.

By Jeff's a Twit

August 8, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

Jeff, All I can say is “Thank GOD” that you were forced out of the classroom when you were.

No wonder your students acted out if you had/have this attitude. Students can sense when a teacher has their best interests at heart just as they can sense when a teacher doesn’t have the slightest idea on how to interact with students.

By Momto7

August 8, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

I can assure you that if a child’s learning problems could be solved as easily as just slapping them every now and then, most of us would do it. It takes a lot of work to figure out what the problem is, how to solve it so they can learn, to work with the school system to implement it, and lastly, to follow through at home. Most parents are not so stupid and lazy that they can’t figure out how to slap their kids. Those who don’t (just smack them around) work very hard at discipling themselves into restraint and finding solutions to complicated and real problems. There is a difference between just poorly parented children and children with learning and other disabilities. But, it takes a little attention and work to figure that out.

By Lisa

August 8, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

Assperger’s Syndrome?? That explains it. I think a few small group classes would have helped you to develop a personality. Most special education kids are not lazy and neither are their parents. Maybe your parents were and that’s why they chose to just beat the tar out of you. I’m not lazy and neither is my child.

You’d better learn who you’re talking to!!!!

By Sue

August 8, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

To Jeff: You are a M-O-R-O-N. My daughter has had a learning disability all her life, and I had to fight tooth and nail with the school to do what I considered just plain old-fashioned good teaching. For example, present the information in various modalities, visually as well as orally. If you think only bad parents have children with learning disorders, then you need to excuse yourself from the table and go immediately to the library and do some catching on the latest science. Unfortunately, it’s people like yourself, totally ignorant, that propagate the sterotypical learning disabled child as lazy. I pray that one day God brings you complete understanding of this horrible situation by allowing you to walk one day in the shoes of a parent or grandparent with a learning disabled child.

By Rhonda

August 8, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

My oldest son is autistic and he does have individualized education. He attends a DOD school on a Army post and I am so thankful he does because he is doing so well, special education and good therapy made that possible.I know people have different views about this but the bottom line is some kids need special education and not all of them are ADD. I value education and I value really good teachers and that can only be a help to my son.

By Jeff

August 8, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

lisa:

I did develop a personality, and one that I am quite happy with, thank you.

AS - like any mental disability, though particularly true of ASDs and like issues- is something that can ONLY be over come one way:

By the person afflicted fighting it with everything they have. No other person - and particularly no “normal” - is ever going to do anything other than coddle you. And we all need coddling, at times. I’m not denying that. But my message is that you can NOT give in, and that is EXACTLY what “normals” WANT you to do. They don’t want to “help” you. They want to make you a second class citizen by making excuses for you. “Oh, he has dsylexia, he can’t read.” “Oh, he has Asperger’s, he can’t teach”, etc.

BULL SH*T!!!!!!! (And I cannot say that enough!!!!!!)

I KNOW I will die still fighting AS.

But when I die you WILL still see me FIGHTING it!

And my views for any Spec Ed type person are that they should do the same.

By jim d

August 8, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

Lighten up folks.

Jeff is neither a twit nor a moron. However, he may have failed to take his meds.

By special ed mom

August 8, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this

Interesting topic, I feel that not enough is done in the special ed department. Currently I have an Autistic 8yr old son, in the public system. He is in general ed with alot of extra support. Many years I have been told by school experts, that I should place him in a self-contain class with other Autistic children, I refuse to do this because, I believe that if you really work hard with your child, they can achieve everything, “they” desire to be in life. What does bother me is that alot of times the system is trying to fix my child. What does this mean, to take the innocence from him, to make him talk back, to make him aggressive, to try to fit him into the mold of society? Most Autistic children, have no ideas about how alot of “A-typical” kids are. I prefer to keep it that way. If Georgia is supporting alot of kids in the special ed department with ADD, we are doing a disservice to the Special Ed Dept. I really don’t know how to address this problem, but the topic in the blog is about advocates like myself, to keep on pushing for improvement in the public sector for the more life long disabilites of these children.

By jim d

August 8, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

I’m afraid you maybe confusing compassion with coddling. Compassion, my friend, is caring—coddling is not.

By jim d

August 8, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

Dear SE Mom,

I don’t have a dog in this race, nor do I hold any strong opinons re: this topic, but let me just throw this out for the sake of discussion.

I gather from your post that you are a strong advocate for inclusion, so the question begs to be asked. Do you advocate inclusion even at the expense of other childrens education?

By Jeff

August 8, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

spec ed mom:

Other than accepting “a lot of extra support”, I completely agree.

Though I do understand that depending on your son’s exact flavor of Autism, he may truly need the extra support. Both myself and my younger bro - who has AS more severely than I, yet still not full blown autism - got away with not TRULY needing it, so we never accepted it.

I do, however, know a full autism guy - and he was once a co-worker. Am unsure exactly what he/ his parents went through in school, but I do know that both his advantages and disadvantages (brain power/ social & emotional difficulty) were FAR more profound than my own, to the point that he probbaly truly needed as much extra support as he could get.

I still hold, however, that the vast majority of “normals” out there only want to hold us down by making excuses for us.

This is one of my core beliefs, and it applies to ANY form of discrimination:

EQUAL OPPORTUNITY means just that. EQUAL OPPORTUNITY. NO ONE should have any advantages/ disadvantages as far as things that can be given to them. In other words, a black person should not get into Harvard simply because he is black (affirmative action), a wheelchair bound person should not get preferential parking just because they are in a wheelchair, and an autistic person should not recieve “extra support” just because they are autistic.

By Janine

August 8, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this

This is an interesting topic today. Here is a link article in Psychology Today called “A Nation of Wimps” that many pediatricians are asking the parents of their patients to read. It seems that pediatricians are confronting young patients who are having difficulty *figuring things out” all by themselves, handling failure and disappointments, and dealing with a world that is not always kind and compassionate….etc. It is not totally on this topic, but it does speak to some of Jeff’s ideas as well as being pretty much common sense

http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-3584.html

By Jeff

August 8, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

jim:

While it may be less true of more severe (full blown austism vs AS) cases, 9 times out of 10 an AS person will function decently well in an inclusion setting, though the “normal” kids may find the AS kid quite “weird”. (Personal experience there, as well as watching my younger bro.)

With continued fighting/ progress though, the AS person can progress to a level that most people will not even realize he/she has it. (It took me until somewhere in my college years, though even now I still have the occassional episode where it becomes blatantly apparent.)

Am unsure about full blown autism though, would be interested in seeing what SE mom says…

By JustMe

August 8, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

Two separate issues here….

I have had children in my classroom that honestly didn’t know that cheating was morally wrong because the parents never taught them that. The children thought that cheating was just another valid way to succeed. And, these are high school kids!

By catlady

August 8, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

The old rules were bad. The new rules are a travesty not only for special ed kids but also for the rest of the kids. Whereever the fault lies, state or national, we should be demanding better than this!!!!!

By Terry

August 8, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this

I have a lot to say about all of this. It seems that people that place judgements in this manner are a bunch of selfish, narrow-minded fools.

I have been working hard for educational rights for ALL students- general ed and special ed students and the RIGHTS OF TEACHERS. Under FEDERAL statutes we are all entitled to an education in this country.

Let me put the idiots on notice. My group informs both parents and teachers of their rights. I am not an attorney but activist and interested in education very much in Georgia.

We have school districts that perpetually LIE to the public about many things. We have school districts that harass and intimidate TEACHERS AND PARENTS continuously. THIS IS WHY WE ARE 48.

For any parent— you must file Civil Rights Complaints, Office of Inspector General complaints on waste and fraud and get the US justice department involved on anyone that harasses, intimidates or physically harms a child in public school. Period.

This nonsense is going to end in Georgia, trust me on that. We are working diligiently with our legislators, I will copy and print these posts — JEFF and send these posts to our legislators, our Governor, Your school district, and the US Dept of Education—

We are sending this stuff to all the legislators— WE HAVE DOCUMENTS TO SUPPORT OUR ARGUMENT VERSSUS YOUR STUPIDITY.

For any educator that harasses, intimidates or otherwise abuses their power on any student or parent— FILE AN ETHICS COMPLAINT TODAY.
www.gapsc.com

Terry Baradine Forsyth Parent/Teacher Coalition

By jim d

August 8, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

Just me,

We’ve nearly agreed twice in as many days. Must be a record. :-)

Poor parenting indeed can be a huge contribting factor to many of the difficulties teachers face. I’m not too sure that is the only place though.

Here’s a copy of the “Mission Statement” from the largest school system in Georgia.

Mission: The mission of Gwinnett County Public Schools is to pursue excellence in academic knowledge, skills, and behavior for each student, resulting in measured improvement against local, national, and world-class standards.

For a student to make it all the way to high school and not understand cheating is wrong, do you think there maybe a remote possibil;ity that the system has failed at their mission or that teachers in ES or MS may have just looked the other way so as to move the student along?

By hsteacher

August 8, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

I had a student this past school year with AS. He had an aide that traveled with him to his inclusion classes. Were it not for the aide I would never have been able to teacher the other 25 kids in the class. He was constantly out of his seat, roaming the class, arguing with other students, and trying to leave every chance he could. This was while he was completely medicated. Did he need that extra attention? You bet. I’m glad that he came into my class. He taught me a lot about AS and student difficulties as well. I’m thankful that this young man had an aide that worked with him and managed to help me keep him on a somewhat even keel and to help me and his classmates accept him for the young man he was. Difficult? Absolutely. But I’m thankful for the spec. ed. that was available to him. It helped us all.

By jim d

August 8, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

Terry,

Would you care to explain how parents that do all of the above are treated by their school systems? Specifically any that may actually obtain a CRC hearing?

By Kat

August 8, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this

Folks, Jeff has already told you he as Asperger’s. The symptoms inclide poor social skills, inability to empathize with others, inability to interpret emotional cues from others, etc. etc. His comments are irrational and inappropriate, but that’s no surprise. Ignore him.

By Terry

August 8, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

If you educate the child properly, the behavior problem diminishes AND yes it is federally mandated that these kids are provided for—

hsteacher— THANK YOU for having an open mind— and I am sure the parent got the aid because the parent knew this was necessary for you, the class and the student— I don’t know how helpful the district really was.

Parents must inform themselves that YES they can get an aid and Yes the school has to pay for it. — so teachers are not overburdened.

The tables are turning ever so slowly for at risk youth. The community is ever so tired of school districts that refuse to do their job— educating all students and breaking the cycle of failure for high risk youth.

We are also tired of GOOD olE’ BOY POLITICS BEING played at the state dept of education and in local school districts. Terry Baradine

By Terry

August 8, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

SB10 — Thank Goodness for that.

NEXT STOP— UNIVERSAL SCHOOL CHOICE in georgia— its time to take the money out of the hands of the educrats— because all they do is waste, and spend and violate childrens and teachers rights.

By Jeff

August 8, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

Kat:

I’m the only one on this forum so far LIVING with a Spec-Ed related “disability” MYSELF.

The closest anyone else has come as either a parent with a child with one or as a teacher of one.

Somehow, I think MY perspective should carry more weight than that… none of the rest of you know INTIMATELY what it is like, only what your kids/ students TELL you.

Am I irrational? Not on this. I’m telling you how I have SUCCESSFULLY fought AS to the point that NO ONE that I meet now realizes that I have it unless I tell them. (And btw: the people that I’ve met within the past year include quite a few teachers, doctors, and counselors, in addition to the normal “every day” type folks.)

Terry:

It is NOT the GOVERNMENT’s responsibility to educate your child. It is YOURS.

By Jeff

August 8, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

Terry == just another lobbyist with a special interest. Go peddle your pondscum somewhere else and let us REAL people that REALLY deal with these issues work for the betterment of ALL concerned.

By Todd

August 8, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

Special Ed is used and abused by too many parents who don’t know how to raise their kids. Behavior Disorder is usually because the kid doesn’t even know who his or her dad is and the mom isn’t even in the picture half the time. The kid lives with grandma or grandpa and needs a beating.

Then you have the kids who know the system and expect to be passed without meeting the goals. I am sorry, but we should not have a “half-degree.” If the kid cannot pass the standards, then the kid deserves no promotion or graduation. We do not give out Special Ed Bachelor of Arts degrees do we? I sure don’t want an Special Ed MD treating me. If the kid meets the standards then fine, but otherwise they need to be routed onto an alternative track. Stop waisting my approximately $8000/year public high school tuition when they are learning nothing but how to play the system.

When they graduate, McDonald’s is not going to give them a Special Ed manager or parapro manager to oversee their flipping burgers. Wake up to reality.

By jim d

August 8, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

“It is NOT the GOVERNMENT’s responsibility to educate your child. It is YOURS.”

I’ll believe that when mandatory attendance laws are repealed.

By Elaine

August 8, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this

The bigger picture is this: Special Education needs to be more clearly defined, which I what I think these changes are trying to do, but I’m not sure if they do them well.

Should we offer special services to children who need them? Of course, we should. Have things become warped and we’re wasting money in the name of Sp. Ed? Absolutely.

I have 8 years experience in secondary as a regular ed classroom teacher, several of which were in team-taught “inclusion” environments. About 75% of the kids receiving services this way were wonderfully served. In my opinion, about 25% of them were stuck in a political/emotional battle of the wits between school and parents and not in the right place. Some needed to be in regular ed, and some should have been self contained. (The elimination of the General Diploma really hurt this group of kids terribly…but that’s another blog topic.)

The biggest crying shame of the whole thing is how special ed teachers have been jerked around. Many seasoned veterans have degrees/training that don’t correllate to what they’re being asked to do now, because the model has changed so many times. They just want to help kids, but the current beaurocratic red tape of Sp.Ed. wastes a good 1/3 to 1/2 of their time in paperwork. When I read that Special Ed teachers are a critical need in most districts, my heart breaks, because I know that most of these caring individuals’ time is going to be wasted filling out forms in triplicate and going to meetings.

By Jeff's a Twit

August 8, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

Actually, there are others on this blog who are living with physical/social/educational limitiations besides you, but some of us tend to be a little more private about it.

I am a disabled Gulf War veteran. I lost part of my left leg while fighting for your rights. I do admit to using handicapped parking spaces occasionally, especially in the beginning when I was going through rehabilitation.

Thankfully, you do NOT speak for all of us.

By Jeff

August 8, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

jim:

Mandatory attendance laws have nothing to do with it. Home school and private school are both options and both adhere to mandatory attendance laws….

By Terry

August 8, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this

The FEDERAL STATUTEs say its the government’s responsibilty currently.

I personally would like to repeal Mandatory Compulsory Attendance Rules so that I may exercise my rights. BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT KEEPS SCREWING THINGS UP.

Not all of us can homeschool you know. What MOrons!

The FEDERAL government keepts making it mandatory for parents to send kids to school — even when they are abused, humiliated and harassed.

Some of us have EVIDENCE OF PHYSICAL ABUSE EVEN COVERED UP BY SCHOOL DISTRICTS— Contact the Georgai DOE— they know all about it and sit on their laurels collecting tax payer dollars.

By Terry

August 8, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this

WHAT ABOUT THE KIDS WHO CAN’T AFFORD PRIVATE SCHOOL MORON? OR THE PARENTS WHO HAVE TO WORK 2 JOBS TO PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE.

SHUT THESE MORONS UP PEOPLE

By Terry

August 8, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

For the parents stuck between a rock and a hard place

Enroll in Georgia Virtual School—- My Goodness— you see how the idiots are here. This is considered public school too— do it for a year then run with the SB10 money.

In the meantime— all the Parent Teacher Coalitions around the state are meeting and working with legislators on UNIVERSAL School Choice for all

By Jo

August 8, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this

I’m in my early 50’s. When I was a child & a teen you never heard of these learning-disabled labels. If you didn’t get with the program, you were disciplined harshly. Period. No questions asked, no margin for negotiations. I & everyone around me always knew that even though I was (tested as) brilliant, there was something wrong with me but at the time, no one knew what Asperger’s was. I was raised with no love & support & was taught from an early age that I had to fight my own battles & accomplish whatever I needed to, alone. I.E, “sink or swim” Guess what? I actually became determined to make a life for myself & from an early age, & was more self-sufficient than most. The more ridicule, hatred & opposition I was faced with & believe me, I received that in abundance & that’s ALL I got, the tougher & more tenacious I became. SELF-ESTEEM? CODDLING? ENTITLEMENT? LOVE? AFFECTION? DRUGS/MEDICATION? THERAPY? Oh PLEASE! I now have a great job & am in a healthy, loving relationship. Sometimes old-school is the BEST school.

By Jeff

August 8, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

Twit:

I fight for myself and others who have disabilities.

I fight based on how I learned to overcome mine, and it is the same principle you learned in rehab (ankle injury. not like completely losing a leg, but you do lose its functionality for a time… and that was bad enough!):

If you back down, you might as well stay down. The only way to improve is to continually push yourself to the very brink of insanity (or, in the case of a physical disability such as yours, to the very brink of the afflicted area(s) complete structural failure). By doing so, you are continually adding more capability back into your system (or, in the case of my own “disability”, into your system in the first place).

It is HARD, and it is PAINFUL. But it is something you MUST do.

And the people that sit there and try to make excuses for you or offer you another crutch are only making you weaker. They are NOT helping you. They are making you a second class citizen.

Just as steel is strengthened when put to the fire, so are we. Those of us who overcome our “disabilities” can truly overcome ANYTHING and ANYONE.

But you’ve got to be tough when consumed by desire ‘Cause it’s not enough just to stand outside the fire They’re so hell-bent on giving ,walking a wire Convinced it’s not living if you stand outside the fire

Those of you on the outside will never truly understand those of us who LIVE inside it.

By thomas

August 8, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this

Ok, I understand now. Torturing “misbehaving” students is a good thing. OK- Now I understand why this man is not in a classroom any more.

I don’t like to believe the horror stories I hear about teachers, but every once in a while they are true. A small minority of nuts, but they’re out there.

By Jeff

August 8, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this

Jo:

Congraulations! It is 1:45p and I am JUST NOW handing out my first big AMEN of the day, to you! :P

By SET

August 8, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this

Love the dialog here..

In CA we closed the state hospitals and they only remain for the most psychotic patients. As a result we have “homeless” mentally ill wandering the streets talking to themselves, getting physically sick and dying, having sex & children, getting locked up in prisons for crimes they commit (including sex crimes), defecating in public and generally running down the quality of life for all.

The previous policy of forced/parental consent sterilization, long term state hospital residency, dedicated schools and other state managed services worked better and were far more humane. We should never have stopped it.

Instead we kill them slowly with kindness and condemn later generations to live the same miserable lives by all this 1960’s freedom nonsense. And trash our cities at the same time. We call it, freedom to be crazy and it’s a right in CA.

The school debate about the disabled is good reading. I appreciate the Helen Keller approach - do your lessons or no fruit cup for you. (Or was that a Mel Brooks movie?)

My concern is what is happening to these “disabled children” when they turn 18 and get thrown out into the cold hard world. Them need to go to schools that do whatever can be done if anything to prepare them to make a living and stay out of prison. If that can’t be learned the subjects need to be “placed” and not have the civil rights of an adult. That’s intended to keep them from being run over by a car or victimized (raped, etc) on a daily basis in the street or prisons.

Yes, pain is a great teacher and controlled pain in school may save a lot of the real thing later in the streets. Let the locals run the schools and let reasonable people in charge do it their way until & unless you fire them. If the Nuns did it in the ’60s it’s good enough for the kids today. They managed to take rough kids and turn them into taxpayers. Even the girls…

And kids that can’t take direction or sit in class don’t belong in a normal classrom, Period. They belong in Schools for the Special Ed Students.

By Jo

August 8, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this

Thank you, Jeff! Your story sounds a lot like mine. They say ignorance is bliss & I can see it; I was actually better off not knowing what I had & being zombie-ized with Prozac, Zoloft etc. These enabled kids will never, ever be able to function in the world. You & I can & are. We turned out to be the lucky ones..

By thomas

August 8, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

This is a shame. No one has really talked about what the SPED changes are all about. Does anyone even know?

I do. I read them. And I agree. Over the past 10-15 years we have allowed SPED to get out of control. People who are lazy and/or lack self discipline are allowed to get a free pass under the LD category. LD makes up the largest category of SPED, next to OHI and BD.

You see, LD and OHI (usually the ADHD game), is the money ticket. They aren’t “hard” disabilities- things that can be proved like blindness or lost of legs, or hearing. “Soft” disabilities like LD and ADHD can be faked.

The door is being on the deadbeats. YEEEEEEEEE-HAWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!

The truth of the matter is that we will return to the day that only REAL ailments will be recognized. I look forward to that day. Then people’s time won’t be wasted on BS. Money won’t be wasted on lazy, game playing bums. You don’t want to sit down in your seat and listen to the teacher, so you claim you have ADHD. ADHD DOES NOT EXIST.

Someday, our public schools may see a renaissance after all.

By iron maiden

August 8, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

For Jeff - All of us have health/emotional/employment problems; many of them are lifelong. Cut with the histrionics and go back to work. As a former HS special educator, and the parent of two diagnosed children, I have confronted numerous cases of too much assistance. Probably the major reason why I left teaching was because, in general, the students are not allowed to experience the consequences of their choices. This is absolutely vital for HS special ed, unless mom and dad plan to shadow them throughout life. Many kids aren’t lazy in the early years. But when parents constantly blame teachers for the lack of progress, having no materials, homework or interest is simply NOT the “student’s” problem. Parents cannot OWN all the challenges for their special ed child, and too many are unable to trust the professionals. Sometimes parents really are too close to the situation.

By holdingAJCaccountable

August 8, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this

For those struggling with parent issues I have two words: John Rosemond.

Don’t walk, RUN to the nearest bookstore. He’ll cut through 50 years of psychobabble and give you some PRACTICAL methods…

You just have to commit. It’ll probably get worse before it gets better as the child rebels, but THEN you’ll get that peace of mind you are craving.

By Terry

August 8, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

To Jeff:

What are you doing to REally deal with the REAL issues— spouting off at the mouth? I personally would like to know.

By Wade

August 8, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

“The biggest crying shame of the whole thing is how special ed teachers have been jerked around. Many seasoned veterans have degrees/training that don’t correllate to what they’re being asked to do now, because the model has changed so many times. They just want to help kids, but the current beaurocratic red tape of Sp.Ed. wastes a good 1/3 to 1/2 of their time in paperwork.”

Elaine, I agree totally. What many advocates and attorneys don’t want to recognize is that we (special ed providers) entered the field to help kids, not spend our lives filling out paperwork, sitting in meetings being attacked by attorneys, advocates and parents who want to take their grief and anger out on us (and blame us for the child’s disability). It’s just not worth the harrassment, and special ed teachers and therapists are leaving area school systems in droves.

Unfortunately, advocates and parents love to take out their frustrations about “the system” on teachers, who are the lowest on the totem pole and have no control over policies.

I also am annoyed by parents who demand endless services and then drive away with a “Bush/Cheney” sticker on their SUV. Don’t they realize that the federal gov’t refuses to fully fund IDEA, thus denying states the money for all of these precious services??? Face it, if you want the services, you need to pony up and pay for them via taxes….

By julie

August 8, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

I just have one thing to say, “Jeff, you’re an idiot!”

By Terry

August 8, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this

If you are a teacher— Join MACE today.

Run, run run to mace

www.theteachersadvocate.com

Join a parent teacher coalition in your district—- run to them— they will bring it up at local board meetings

I am working on 2 incidents of teachers wrongly accused and retaliated on— Examine your contract AND DON;T SIGN YOUR RIGHTS AWAY.

By Jeff

August 8, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

Terry:

I work with those with disabilities - particularly AS - and help them to do exactly as I have done: fight it at all costs.

I have done this at a variety of levels, up to and including working in a Wilderness Camp. (Though I generally work one on one with people that happen to be in my life, such as the guy with autism I noted earlier and my younger bro.)

BTW: Jo, I completely agree. My parents didn’t know about AS until it was too late for me. Once they found out about it with younger bro, they began coddling him. (Well, truthfully he had been coddled because he is the baby of the family for years. When they found out about his AS it only intensified. They have done better about backing off recently, however.)

By Parent of AS Child

August 8, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

I am shocked speechless by these posts. ADD is bad parenting? My youngest daughter (now 20 years old) has both Asperger’s and ADHD, and my older daughter is a pediatric intensive care nurse (who I raised as a single mother on welfare, by the way). Explain that!

Miss or Mr. “Duct Tape”, all I have to say is you and I are both glad you never attempted that on my child! My God! I have NEVER seen such ignorant postings!

There, but for the grace of God, go I. I’m happy none of you were “blessed” with special kids. Lord only knows how they would turn out with the attitudes of these posters.

By Terry

August 8, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

2 Things come to mind in all this back and forth

Ethics and Money

File an ethics complaint on any teacher that abuses a child in any way. That backs them off very quickly. There is no excuse from this from an educator.

View this for more info: www.gapsc.com

Do OPEN RECORDS ON SCHOOL SYSTEMS.. Through Georgia Open Records requests, you will see all the money wasted. For the Educrats to misinform the public that NCLB and IDEA is underfunded is completely FALSE and misleading.

Georgia Sent back MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF dollars UNUSED to the Federal Reserve that was supposed to go to Special Education and even General Education. Utter nonsense.

File OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL Complaints with the U.S. Dept of Education on waste, fraud and mismanagement in your local school district. Check out www.ed.gov and type in inspector general in the search bar

Write letters to your local school board to FORCE ACCOUNTABILITY (OOOOH WHAT A DIRTY WORD)

And for the teachers — know your rights too. If you need help with documentation, etc. Go to your local school board and say so.

the citizens are tired of the excuses, get involved with your school board and help to put forth VIABLE candidates that give a damn. Stay informed and stay involved— don’t let idiots that don’t know better throw you. There are idiots born every minute.

Understand this Accountability is NOT CODDLING. I never would condone that EVER. and NO I am not part of a ‘special interest left wing’ interest group—

GCASE, GAE, PAGE — All have lobbyists that pressure your legislators to prevent good solid education in Georgia. WE ARE IN A CRISIS HERE BEcause of THEM. Learn their position statements on the issues— you’ll see where the problem is.

In the meantime-keep filing complaints, raise the issues as a group, with media to your local school boards— You will get a good education— oh yes— and always know your options

Georgia Virtual School Comes to mind if you don’t know what to do . And Charter Schools are making headway in Georgia Now.. finally.

By Jo

August 8, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

Jeff, I guess your parents learned from their mistakes, too little, too late though. My parents blamed me for my inability to socialize. Quote unquote “It’s your own fault you have social problems, for being such a %^#$% freak!” (Aside to ‘Parent of AS Child: Honey, if you can’t feed em, don’t breed em! Mooching off welfare is just plain WRONG! How would you like it if you had to drag yourself to work every day, so that the likes of me can sit around on the couch breeding incessantly on your dollar? That’ll never happen though. I have self-respect & have worked too hard to get where I am now!)

By Jeff

August 8, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

Parent:

Maybe I didn’t make myself clear earlier, but virtually every method I listed are things that I pretty much go to as a last resort only.

Believe me, I had quite a few parents tell the SCHOOL BOARD - as well as my Principal and Superintendent - that I was the best teacher their kid had ever had.

By Jeff's a Twit

August 8, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this

Jeff…

Oh…so you work with your brother and some guy you work with in order to help people. And, oh yes, you spout off at the mouth on this blog? And you worked at a wilderness camp once?

So what exactly have you done that is constructive to help others with disabilities? ‘Cause that really doesn’t sound like much to me.

I work with disabled youngsters every single day. And they are a joy. I treat them with compassion and respect and they put forth 110% most of the time. And, amazingly enough, I never feel the need to want to physically assault them the way you advocate doing so.

It’s time to up the meds, Jeff. You seem to be going off the deep end.

By Terry

August 8, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

To jim d— can you be more specific with the question? I wasn’t clear on your comment.. send me an email if you need direction: baradine@bellsouth.net

By Terry

August 8, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

Jeff

I will make it my personal mission to find out exactly what school district you happened to work in..

Are you still an educator and hold an educator certificate by chance???

Anybody else here see the problem.

I am just wondering if you are still having contact with kids— Your views are disgusting, repulsive and a wee bit disconcerting I might add.

I would suggest you keep your wild views of smacking around kids to yourself— somebody might tattle on you to a higher authority!

By A georgia Parent

August 8, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

Let’s ask for an “equal” place at the decision making table for “all” parents and children in Georgia Public Education. We don’t need to fight, just help people “understand” - we all want the same thing.

By Keep on Topic

August 8, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

Ms. Carmen Allen has brought an issue to the table that is very valid.

The Georgia DOE has been making UNILATERAL decisions for years. Its no wonder we are in the situation we are in.

When are they really going to allow public input on these rules?? Its time the Georgia Dept of Education does that. No more unilateral decisions by educrats— they simply don’t work.

AND it looks to me that the Georgia Dept of Education claims they want parental input, but yet don’t allow it. They can no longer have it both ways.

Sorry Kathy Cox—and Mr. Bennett - the Asst Deputy superintendent, y’all are on notice

By AS Parent

August 8, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

Excuse me, “breeding and mooching?” “Breeding incessantly”? I had one child when I was 16 years old! Then six months later I was diagnosed with Crohn’s Disease and spent most of the four years she was on welfare in the hospital. Eventually I went back to school, got my GED (with the highest score in the state thank you) and then moved to get a job, as there were none available in my city/state at the time, or else I would have worked. Then I went to college and graduated valedectorian. Please don’t judge me; you know nothing about me. Self-respect, yep, got plenty of that! Again, there, but for the grace of God, go you. Ask my daughter how she feels about it; I do believe she would want her mother to do the best she could to raise someone any parent would be proud of, especially during such difficult times.

By jim d

August 8, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

Terry,

The question wasn’t for me dear.

You have advocated parents file civil rights complaints so I simply asked you to explain to readers, how the schools will react if a parent files a complaint and gets a hearing.

I believe you owe it to those you are telling to do something what the consequences may be. I need no direction on this one, I’ve seen it up close and personal! and it ain’t a pretty picture.

By Jeff

August 8, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

Terry:

Get in my face and I have no problems putting YOU in your place either.

The problem is that kids think they can get away with anything these days. I can honestly say that the only time I’ve ACTUALLY hit someone in the past 5 years is when they physically assaulted me first. I simply want the legal authority as a teacher to put a kid in the hospital if they assault me. With an adult, TRUST me, I WON’T hesitate to put you in the hospital. Kids seem to think they’re already adults, so why not let me treat them the same??

Also, I’ve been quite clear as to where I worked: Randolph-Clay Middle School in Randolph County. Bobby Jenkins is a KNOWN enemy who uses his power for his own political gain, regardless of the harm it causes the students under his charge. (75% FAIL rate on the math CRCT this year btw.)

Georgia Parent:

You are exactly correct. EQUAL playing field for ALL. ZERO special advantages. Time to do away with Spec Ed completely!

By jim d

August 8, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this

Let’s see.

Idiot, Moron, Twit and all the poor ol me’s.

Damn hard to believe this is an education blog today.

By Jeff's a Twit

August 8, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this

Jeff writes: I simply want the legal authority as a teacher to put a kid in the hospital if they assault me.

That is simly amazing. Jeff, in any of the education classes that you took in college, did you ever happen to come across any literature about how children’s brains are wired differently than adult brains? That’s why children are treated differently under the law than adults. They simply have not yet physically developed the cognitive abilities to reason the differences between right and wrong.

Notice the word yet, Jeff. Apparently, you don’t seem to have that ability to know the differences between right and wrong at the moment, either.

You do NOT “put children in the hospital” simply because you are physically assalted. It’s morally and ethically wrong. There is a huge difference between a child lashing out in anger or frustration than an adult attacking you.

Get it?

Probably not.

By Parent of AS Child

August 8, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

NO!! Not “poor me”. Life is what happens when you’re trying to plan other things. I never asked for pity. Never got it. Just did the very best I could under my certain circumstances. And did a damn good job too!

Everyone quick! Contact Randolph-Clay Middle School. Maybe someone who experienced (suffered) that teacher’s “teachings” can put him in the hospital!

By Old School

August 8, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

Ponder on this a bit, folks: As CTAE instructors, we are hired out of industry to teach job skills (sheet metals, welding, drafting, auto services, etc.) to high school students. Most of us do not have the classic educator training that traditional teachers have (4 year degrees). We are hired because we are experts (or at least highly skilled) in our craft.

Not one of us at my school has ever been trained in how to best serve special needs students, yet in our labs we average 3 or more per class. We have no say in the placement but are expected to give them job-entry level skills. Some of these students are actually carefully matched to the class/teacher and are quite successful. Others are just simply put there- posing safety risks to others and demanding far too much time and attention from the instructor. Those IEPs come with a few adaptations we are to implement but unless one is fluent in “educational-ese,” it might as well be Phoenician. Are future employers going to provide these modifications on the job? Will a medical transcriptionist be allowed to make spelling errors?

We WANT to serve these students and provide them with a quality training program, but if they are not matched well and if we are not supported in our efforts, it’s a lost cause.

Should we really expect a student who cannot read or do simple math to produce a full set of accurate working drawings or a house plan that can be built? Help us help them! Otherwise both student and instructor are dogpaddling in circles in the middle of an unforgiving ocean.

By Jeff

August 8, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

Twit:

We’re not talking Pre-K here. We’re talking kids that were - in a few cases - larger than ME (and I’m not exactly that small).

The lowest grade I taught was 6th grade, and by that point unless you have a genuine diagnosis as “severe” or “profound” mental retardation, you should know that hitting people is WRONG. Oh wait, I forgot… bad parenting in the first place.

If a kid is going to assault ME - even though they KNOW I am far larger and INFINTELY more dangerous than they - what is to prevent them from assaulting a fellow student, whom they could quite easily KILL? I LITERALLY have scars on my arm from various students assaulting me. I had one JUMP ON MY NECK.

NOTHING was done to these kids.

And they KNEW that would be the result.

THAT is the single biggest problem in education today.

Though I will note that the black culture is the primary cause. I had a FEW white students THREATEN me, but not ONE ever laid a hand on me. There were at LEAST a couple dozen black kids that assaulted me to varying degrees at varying points.

By Terry

August 8, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this

To Jim D

It all depends on how you do it.. I know people who have one cases of civil rights personally and received no retaliation.

If there is retaliation, there are solutions for that too.. Parents/taxpayers must know their options — get involved with your district and the political players in your town. Always pays to have friends in the press too!

By SET

August 8, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

Sorry Jeff, we can’t do away with special ed completely. Some students are medically fragile. Our normal schools have no RN’s in attendance. Special Ed schools often do here.

My co-worker sends her son to a Special Ed school on it’s own campus that has 4 teachers per 10 students. This is a special county-run school that is the last step before a locked facility. Her son is the only child not already living in a group home. He’s now 11. Last Xmas he was forcibly removed (Sheriff took him from home on Drs orders) from his parents by his Dr. and involuntarily comitted for awhile to a psych hospital. The kids looks normal, he’s not. He can become homicidal or suicidal among other problems. His family has been dealing with the child’s psych issues since he was 3 or 4. They had holes in the sheet rock since then and periodically toss his room for concealed knives he takes and hides. They went through several ordinary public schools and the boy was finally transferred here. He has improved with the structured setting the new school gives him. The kids at the other schools were afraid of him anyway. Smart kids.

My Aunt taught Special Ed in Richmond CA for over 20 years. I’ve heard things I won’t even write on a family blog. I know that the staff at these schools take “education” to a whole new level. None of the posts here about violence and discipline problems approach what they have to deal with. Frankly, teachers are safer in juvenile hall than some Special Ed school classes.

Special Ed is serious business here. The Staff directly interface with the Children’s Drs as well as the parents, they chart behavior and help the families with referrals, programs and even insurance coverage. They work as hard as any primary and HS teacher in CA can. I respect what they do for a living.

Brave New World.

By parent

August 8, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

To old school

Many of us want to be able to help you too that are working in the system.

As Ms. Allen has demonstrated, even the state educrats don’t want us to rectify or improve conditions for you, the teacher or me, the parent.

I think it would behoove folks to write Mr. Bennett of the Georgia Dept of Education— Send him an email to open up forums for parents to have input on any rules change at the state dept..

Here is his email: stbennet@doe.k12.ga.us

Please support the repealing of rules which will negatively impact close to 200,000 Georgia Students and their families, as well as the remaining 1.4 million children enrolled in Georgia Public Schools.

By catlady

August 8, 2007 4:48 PM | Link to this

Here are my problems with special ed: in our system, we can have a child who is obviously MI/MO but, because we have “too many” special ed kids, we cannot get them into sp ed.

Second, there ARE kids getting services who do not need the kind of services they are getting (from the past)

Third, we are abandoning the regular ed kids by expecting their education to be subservient to the sp ed included kids.

Fourth, the new “tier” system means that teachers have to keep dumbing it down and dumbing it down (modifying) beyond recognition so that the student can be declared successful. Then, of course, they don’t need to be tested for special ed. Even if they are 5 years below grade level.

Teachers have to continue to try these accomodations while they have BD, ESOL, OHI, gifted, and regular kids all vying for (and deserving) their attention.

By parent

August 8, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

dear catlady

That’s where you come in. You talk to the parent, tell them their rights under the law.. get them or give them a name of an advocate who will help them with an IEP—

An IEP is the roadmap to help the student and the teacher. Even get an aid in the IEP meeting— so you, catlady, don’t have to be stretched so thin.

PS— its the law anyway

JMHO

By catlady

August 8, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

I left one off: lack of being allowed to discipline sp ed kids effectively, consistently, and firmly.