Get Schooled

By JustMe

May 22, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

As with any place, it becomes more regimented when bad behavior occurs and therefore more rules must be put in place.

A few bad apples can, indeed, spoil the whole bunch.

If all students behaved properly, I seriously doubt if there would be any rules at all. And, I could go into my position on why students misbehave (due to poor parents), but most of you already know my position on that…

By JJ

May 22, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

Why do you have a problem with no back packs on the last day of school? I’m not sure I understand that one? They won’t be bringing anything home…..There were a bunch of kids and my daughter’s high school this morning without back packs.

The poor babies have carried the extremely heavy book bags for months, what’s wrong with leaving it at home on the last day?

By Jen

May 22, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

Anyone here send their kid to Mary Lin? I can’t seem to find any details on the Olympic Day Activities (of which I plan to participate!).

My son’s teacher didn’t sent any details home. And before I go calling the school I thought maybe I could appeal to parents for info.

By matt

May 22, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this

seems like i would just keep my kid out of school that day…too much of a pain to send them…

By Amy

May 22, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

What?! Where did all of these rules come from? Why bother going to school that day at all? We always had a party on the last day. What’s with the no lunch thing? Are they not allowed to eat that day or do they have a half-day? What gives with administration these days? Too many rules if you ask me. I remember first grade for me (1987-1988): if you got in trouble you got slapped on the wrist with a ruler. Instead of slapping kids on the wrist (literally) for misbehaving, they make up all of these idiotic rules that don’t work!!!!

By decaturparent

May 22, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

We don’t have any of these rules on the last day. It’s just like any other day. One of my kids gets to bring in a game and the kids will play board games much of the day and have some popsicles at the end of the day.

I’ve never heard of this before. Do they have near riots at some schools?

By jim d

May 22, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this

Aw c’mon kristina,

I read your stuff on evolution—I know you are capable of something better than back paks and food fights. :-)

By Lisa B.

May 22, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this

I teach elementary school, and spend the last few days getting kids to take home all their belongings. The fewer possessions left in my classroom early in the week, the fewer things left behind the last day. Children get so excited the last day of school. Even after all that effort though, here I sit with two coats, a sweatshirt and bookbag left behind when the school year ended last Friday. I have no idea who the items belong to.

By Ronda

May 22, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

Even in my preschool class we instituted no bookbags for the last 2 days. We have sent everything home by then and why not just let them come to school and enjoy looking forward to their summer.

Kids get testy towards the end of school. I can’t tell you how many 5 year olds I had to send to the office for fighting and this is in an affluent area.

As for older kids, some of them cannot resist misbehaving the last day. Probably has something to do with the fact that they feel like nothing will be done to them since its the end of school. Like the previous person said, if kids didn’t misbehave, we wouldn’t need these rules.

By JJ

May 22, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

Amy The final days for high school students are for exams. At our high school, they do block scheduling the last three days of school, two 2-hour classes every day. They are out by noon, but they have two final exams every day, so they kind of have to be there the last day of school……

As for a party, my daughter invites several friends over to our house and we order pizza and just play around, and blow off steam!!!! It’s been a tradition at my house for years, and all the neighborhood kids come over. They stay outside until about 11:00,(within ear shot of our house, and they aren’t bothering the childless neighbors). Then they come in and settle in for a late night movie. They can either spend the night or go home after the movie. They are all neighbors so they can walk home. I usually make sure they get to where they are going…….

By melissa

May 22, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

This seems like a waste of a blog. I am a 6th grade teacher. These rules, like almost every rule, are designed with your child’s safety/maintaining order with hundreds of kids in mind. The reasons our kids can’t use their lockers is that they must be cleaned out at some point (the day before - you can’t do everything on the last day). This is just a common sense rule. We do not have restricted lunch in cafeteria but you better BET if there was a threat of a food fight, we would alter the location. Would you like to clean up after hundreds of kids throwing food??? Would it be fair to our custodial staff? Also, kids would not be as tempted to throw materials out of the bus on the second to last day, as in a child’s mind, that day is not as big of a deal.

By ray

May 22, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

You get what you pay for when you send your kids to public school - nothing.

By JustMe

May 22, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this

Amy,

Calm down. You and others (including Torres) have mis-interpreted the whole thing.

First, no book bags are allowed because a few students try to sneak in stuff for pranks (stink bombs, etc.). So, to try to prevent this, they simply ask to no carry book bags. Besides, when I was in school, we didn’t have book bags at all. Kids can carry books with their arms and hands…..get over it!

The lunch thing was blown out of proportion. There will be lunch. The school cafeteria will still serve lunch. It is just that some schools don’t want to risk our lovely kids throwing or wearing their food in the cafeteria. Why is that a bad thing? They eat in the classroom - so what?

And finally, I agree with you on the wrist slapping thing. However, too many parents would sue if their little devil was touched in any way.

Again, more rules are created because some kids misbehave. If there was no misbehavior, there would be no rules.

By ECLB

May 22, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

I agree with other posters about this blog topic. Seriously! How about this:

The 5th grade writing assessment scores were released this week. As the parent of a 5th grader, I was quite intrigued as to what quality essay warranted a “meets” or an “exceeds” label. So, I went to the DOE website, where they were kind enough to provide samples of essays for each of the competency levels. If these “higher” standards are supposed to be implemented with this past year for writing at this grade level, I am simply quite worried about the caliber of students in GA. Parents (and concerned others) please take the time to read through these essays and accompanying comments with scores. Honestly, if students aren’t capable of writing a short paper of at least the same quality as the last two essay examples (which exceed expectations), they really shouldn’t be in 5th grade. My (almost) second grader can write a better paper than the first two examples!

By SET

May 22, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

I read this with great interest. Here in my job I see people (often young people) having extreme consequences because they broke rules which they have been trained to break all the time.

Unless the personally signed onto the rule, understand it’s purpose, and believe it’s fashionable to follow that particular rule - they break it.

By the time they are 24 - the kids are divergering into separate populations (haves and have-nots). The consequences of these little rules are adding up. And some people wind up dead.

Where do I start? How about not riding in a car with a driver who uses drugs and alcohol? Who carries narcotics? Or who is just crazy and anti-authoritian in general?

How about having unprotected sex with someone who is statistically likely to have VD? Or have the kids even bothered to look at the local charts?

How about going shopping with someone who shoplifts? Always good for a good time.

And getting into verbal or guesture exchanges on the street with strangers or street people? Do that in Oakland CA… or Los Angeles, and take your Health Ins Card.

Take pills at a party that are being passed around without even knowing what they are..

Associate with known druggies and criminals and assume that you will just be OK. If you really want a good time, marry one.

You would think that these young people would have learned a few things from watching the TV Show “Cops”… They haven’t.

Then by age 24 they want a job because they have expenses and need to move out of their parents place… And they’re confronted with their credit scores, DMV records and criminal histories when applying for housing and employment. For the really good civil service jobs, their relatives and friend’s records are checked also and held against them if they are bad.

The only place for the time being that criminal history & credit scores don’t matter is the Colleges, except for sex offenders which in CA must register with Campus Police.

So I tell “kids” or adults acting like them that if they can’t find work they’d better go to college and take whatever housing they can get. The smart ones do, we have plenty of parolees in the local Jr college. Besides, they can find non-judgemental friends (victims?) there.

By Jeff

May 22, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this

OK, I only went through the last day of school once as a teacher, and that was enough!!

Talk about trash! We probably had about 9 or 10 janitorial-sized trashbags FULL - ON ONE HALL ALONE!!!

If it was up to me, the last day would be the MOST draconian. And don’t even get me STARTED about Seniors that try to do crap. Not walking at graduation would be the LEAST of their worries if I was principal!

By HB

May 22, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this

Back in the day, we had the locker rule (by a certain time on the last day, they had to be empty with locks removed — no biggie, just a housekeeping measure much like turning in text books), but really, having so many rules is going overboard. No cafeteria for fear of food fights? No paper because someone might litter? No backpacks — why not?

These administrators need to stop and really think about what messages they are sending to kids. First, it’s “prevention” to the point that it feels like preemptive punishment — taking away priviledges because they believe kids will misbehave, not because they’ve actually done anything wrong. Talk about setting low expections. “We know you’re going to be bad, so we’re dealing with it advance.” Second, this overabundance of rules tells them authority must maintain rigid control over all possible “threats”. I wonder what laws these kids will be willing to vote for in a few years in the name of safety and order.

By JJ

May 22, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

On the last day of high school in my high school, the seniors did something called the “Senior Paper Toss”. All seniors had lockers on a balcony overlooking the student center/lounge. One the last day of school, the seniors would take all the PAPERS (not books or other supplies) out of their lockers, and throw them over the balcony into the student center. It was a tradition, and as far as I know, they still do it, 30 years later. The under-classmen were the ones who had to clean it all up……..

By Maria

May 22, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

Let the kids have fun. It’s the end of a long tough year for all of them. Whatever happened to a good water balloon or throwing paper out of the window at friends on the last day of school? That’s the problem with most kids today, they are not allowed to have even at school. Hopefully the administrators will see the need to have PE back in schools so the kids will have a release of pressure and not want to turn to detrimental ways. Have a wonderful summer.

By Maria

May 22, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

Let the kids have fun. It’s the end of a long tough year for all of them. Whatever happened to a good water balloon or throwing paper out of the window at friends on the last day of school? That’s the problem with most kids today, they are not allowed to have fun even at school. Hopefully the administrators will see the need to have PE back in schools so the kids will have a release of pressure and not want to turn to detrimental ways. Have a wonderful summer.

By high school teacher

May 22, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

Have any of you ever read the following warnings on product labels or instruction manuals?

• do not touch engine while car is running.

-do not take Preparation H orally.

-do not immerse electrical device in water.

-do not exceed recommend dosage.

The reason that product makers are required to put these warning labels on their products is that people are dumb enough to try the above. The same is true for end-of-the-year rules in schools.

The ultimate administrator’s goal for the last day of school is safety. Not allowing backpacks on the bus might protect your child. Not eating in the cafeteria might prevent your child from being smashed with a banana.

By Stacey

May 22, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this

I haven’t heard of these rules (so they must not apply to my schools) but some of them make sense. When I was in school, we usually turned our books in several days before the end of school (we had our notes and review sheets to use to study for finals. We just had to suffer with the struggle of carrying 3-4 notebooks around all day. In elementary school, the last day was usually spent with parties and clean up (washing blackboards, sorting papers, etc). We usually took home leftover art supplies a couple of day before school let out as well. The only food fight that I have ever witnessed was during my freshman year of college.

Now one thing that we did have to contend with on the last day were fights. In middle school, the students knew where & when the fights were taking place so that you could decide which one to see (jimd vs Jeff behind the gym; KA vs catlady on the math wing, etc). I’m laughing now just thinking of how many January arguments ended with “wait till the last day of school”.

By with

May 22, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

If the reports about how our students compare intellectually to those in other countries, you’d think that we’d teach our kids up until the last moment of the school year.

By jim d

May 22, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

I read the following earlier today and felt it might be apropos to introduce it to this group of bloggers.

“If we want our children locked up all day until they’re sixteen, let’s at least be honest about it and stop trying to pass imprisonment off as education.”

By Teacher, Too

May 22, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

I’ll chime in here. The rules are not only for the safety of the students, but also for other citizens. Let me give you an example: last year, on the day before the last day of school, while I was driving home, some “darling” children threw their stuff out of the bus window. It wasn’t just paper, but also other, harder objects. It hit my car in the windshield. Luckily, and I do mean luckily, my windshield did not break and I didn’t cause an accident. However, it was very scary to have items flying at you, covering the windshield. It could have been an ugly accident. I wrote down the bus number and told my principal. Nothing was done.

Just last week, we had a massive food fight in the cafeteria. Yes, it does happen. Yes, it could have escalated into an ugly scene, especially if the food thrown was replaced with fists.

So, yes, the rules are put in place because there are many children who don’t know how to behave or think they don’t have to behave the last few days of school.

I, like the kids, am counting down the days to summer vacation!

By Kristina Torres

May 22, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

Hey, I’d rather be hit with the banana. ;-)

jim d: evolution schmelvolution!

OK, I’m kidding. Yes, there are more serious topics — including charters and writing exams — but, to me, this is the time of year when it should be OK to be a bit lighthearted and able to blow off stress (even if it creates extra mess. And, to be clear, I’m not talking about actually hurting someone or causing undo harm).

The world has enough rules as it is; not bringing a backpack to school on the last day shouldn’t be one of them.

Yes, there are always a few bad apples. Punish the kids who misbehave (alhtough I think that leads us to a discussion about parenting and discipline…)…

By JustMe

May 22, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Maria and HB….

I don’t know what planet you are on, but you make no sense in schools that are here.

I agree with one that posted that we should teach until the last minute. No parties - they can party all summer. Most students are so far behind learning the content, but they already know how to “party.”

As I have stated before, the only reason that there are ever rules any where is because people do not behave.

By Dick

May 22, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

My last day of school consisted of finals for three class, and lunch. School was out at 3:15 and that was when the last final ended. This was the same my senior year as was my freshmen year.

By Lynette

May 22, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this

I imagine my generation is the one for whom these rules should have been made. LOL. When my kids (only one left in school now) came home and said “we cannot take __ to school on the last day”. I smile and remember pigs, smoke bombs, crickets, goats, chickens, vw beetle on the roof of the school, goofey golf dinasour on the same roof, and so many other things. There were mean things too but, not so many.
Yep I know why those rules are there.
Kids are so different now. I still say as bad as we were it never occured to us to bring a gun to school.

By JustMe

May 22, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

Kristina -

A student can “blow off stress” all summer. A school is intended to be a place to learn.

As a teacher, I am not a party planner and I don’t baby sit. I teach.

By SET

May 22, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

I’m not making a statement on the backpack thing. Looking at the groups comments, though.

A close friend of mine was expelled from my High School two weeks before the graduation ceremony for truancy. The Dean of Students told him, one more unexcused absense and we’ll expell you. He did and they did. After 4 years at one of the top public high schools in the state he ended up with a Ghetto Continuation School High School Diploma. His father was a lawyer and an Airline Exec, his late mother was a physician. This sort of thing didn’t happen often. Most people knew better than to test our administration. My friend wound up in Viet Nam. I went on to college.

At our graduation ceremony the principal’s address to the graduates included a phrase that “you are here because you learned the rules and followed them while other’s didn’t”.

Things like this tend to stick in your mind even after the decades go by. And I believe this is the kind of thing that separates a good school from a ghetto school. My cohort became very good at staying out of trouble. And we weren’t saints, either.

By Lynette

May 22, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

Teachers know for a fact that there is not a lot you can get out of a kid on the last day. I am sure some kind of peace and sanity is what they really hope for.

Just do what the teachers ask. Don’t send the bag, or whatever. It is pretty simple.

By 30 year Teacher

May 22, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this

It’s obvious to me that the people objecting to no backpacks are not teachers! You have to be on the front lines to understand the rationale behind these rules. Our backpack rule was initiated several years ago when residents surrounding the school became tired of the trash thrown into their yards from passing busses. Also pennies were thrown at car wind shields which can crack when they hit at the right angle.

Our students (middle and high school) are taking exams through the end of the last three days of school and have no need to bring anything except their text books to turn in for those classes and something to write with on their exam.

Please se JustMe’s blog at 1:36. It says it all. Maybe parents would be better off understanding and supporting rules instead of complaining because little Sweet Pea cannot carry a back pack. These are probably the same parents who complained all year about Sweet Pea having to carry such a heavy pack. Basically, get over it.

By HB

May 22, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

Just me, I’m right here on planet Earth where I have worked as a teacher and with kids in other capacities as well, and one important thing I’ve learned is that going overboard on rules is counterproductive. I think it’s terrible and dangerous that a kid threw stuff out of a bus onto Teacher too’s car. The principal should have taken action last day of school or not, parents should have been notified, and the child should have been punished. But what if it had happened two weeks earlier? Would you then support completely banning backpacks on the bus everyday? Boy, that’ll teach those kids who come along 5 years later. “See, kids, one person ruined it for the rest of you…” Or maybe, we should try something really crazy — let them carry bags with the understanding that their own actions will bring personal consequences. Isn’t that the way the real world works? If my neighbor down the hall cranks up his music too loud, too often, my apartment complex will evict him. They don’t ban all stereos from the building because no tenant can be trusted to use one responsibly.

SET gave a great example. The school had a reasonable rule in place regarding attendance. A student broke the rule (sounds like repeatedly), was warned what the consequences would be, broke the rule, and was punished. That’s the way it should work, and as SET said, the kid “became very good at staying out of trouble.” And no other students were made to feel as if they were traunts who couldn’t be trusted because of his mistakes. The school set high expectations for its students, and I bet most of them met them.

By Angry about CRCT

May 22, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this

Not related to the topic, but I have an angry parent with me with the following situation.

Some eighth grade students were informed today they must retake the CRCT tomorrow (math and reading only) because someone somewhere lost the tests. This means that children who are ready for school to be out have to switch gears to focus on the high stakes test they have already taken!

The high stakes testing craze punishes children!

By Jane

May 22, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

Just me: Based on the quality of the education given to my grandson this year I would like to know where you teach. Because I want him to go to a school that teaches and does not babysit. Rules are in place and rules will be broken. The more you make the more they break. Taking the time during the year to teach properly will assure you that the rules won’t be necessary at the end of the year.

By Attn: ClaytonCountyParents

May 22, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this

If you’re a Clayton County parent, I’d suggest you call Board of Ed Chairman Erika Davis and board member Yolanda Everett and ask why they are trying to totally gut the discipline proposal already passed unanimously by the board subcommittee?

And if you’re a Clayton County teacher who’s a member of the Clayton County branch of GAE, I’d be asking Sid Chapman why he wants to totally undercut your authority to prevent chronically disruptive students from destroying the learning environment.

Then I’d ask myself, “Why in the h-ll am I paying dues to an organization that will kowtow to administrators who lack the backbone to deal with discipline, instead of supporting proposals that might finally treat me as the professional that I am and allow me maintain the teaching conditions needed for learning to take place?”

Note to Chairman Davis: When you start whining about what might happen when a child gets put out of one classroom after another after another, you look plumb stupid. Did you ever think to consider if a child gets put out of class after class, the problem just MIGHT be with the student, and the parent who fails to raise him, and NOT the teachers? Go see Vanna White and see if she’ll let you buy a clue.

By Lynette

May 22, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

Angry, Oh my do not get me on the CRCT. There is no excuse for the way this is handled. The first year my daughter had to take that test(3rd grade I think) she ended up on rolaids.

By JustMe

May 22, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this

Jane:

I teach high school. Post your email address and I will send you the name of the school. I will say that there are many good high schools in and around Atlanta. There are top high schools ranked in magazines such as Time, and quite a few are right here.

HB:

Propose how you would avoid pranks, pray tell. These are the pranks where students bring in outside things such as stink bombs, oil cans (to make the halls slick), bags of marbles, etc. What would you do to prevent this from happening? Remember - if a prank occurs, someone could get hurt and you would be liable, especially if you did nothing to prevent the prank. I look forward to your response.

By Stacey

May 22, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

For those who say that no backpacks stops pranks such as stink bombs and throwing pennies, what would stop them from putting these things in their pockets? I’m not saying that to be flip…I really don’t understand. It seems that if the kid is that bent on mischief, they will find a way to make it happen. It reminds me of a few years ago (when school shooting became so prevelant) and kids were only allowed to carry see-through and/or mesh backpacks to prevent weapons being brought in. While I can understand the thought, where there’s a will, there’s a way.

By JustMe

May 22, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this

Stacey,

You are absolutely right. But, isn’t what you say true even in the adult world? If a person is determined to buy a black market guy and rob a bank in spite of the ‘rules’ or ‘laws,’ then they will. So following your logic, we simply should not have laws and/or not enforce laws?

All we can do is enforce rules or laws for the benefit and safety of everyone.

By Jane

May 22, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

My grandson is in elementary school and was delighted to be big enough to start real school this year as he called it. Unfortunately, his teacher was not the best in the world and he now HATES the concept of school and really doesn’t want to go back again. We (our entire family—extended) are working with him to change this mindset but at this point we don’t know the extent of the damage done. I am hopeful that based on our belief that education is vital he will turn his viewpoint around.

By MBW

May 22, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

This is a touch off topic, but…

I’m a Democrat and I want to give serious credit to Gov. Sonny Perdue for signing the law making it easier for school systems to convert to charter set-ups.

It’s about time we had somebody willing to take steps to clear out bureaucracy and make way for more innovation. Our parents and kids deserve choices.

Unfortunately, many in my own party (Democrats), are too captive to teachers’ unions and would rather do nothing to fix our schools.

I’m a teacher….and I’m tired of hearing the same old things from Democratic politicians, i.e- “We need more funding for our schools” . Lots of money for new computers and new buildings is no substitute for good teaching and good, qualified administrators!

Thanks, Gov. Perdue, for opening the door for schools to try new approaches instead of doing the same thing every year expecting different results.

By catlady

May 22, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

If the parents who are irritated about this volunteered at the school for a week, they would see the need for all these “unnecessary” rules. Nothing like a little first-hand knowledge to put it into perspective…..

By HB

May 22, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this

Stacey, you nailed it. Just me, you simply don’t try to prevent every possible prank because it would be impossible to do so. Set high expectations for students, have rules in place, and by all means, punish those who do wrong. Will pranks happen? Yes. Will they happen if you ban anything and everything? Yes. But if we keep sending the message that all kids are hooligans regardless of how well they behave or what they accomplish, why should they continue to work hard? Personal responsibility is not just about consequences for wrong-doings. They need to learn how to earn trust and live up to expectations. How can they do that if all the adults around them send the message that no matter what they do, they cannot prove themselves trustworthy, and it’s just a given that they will screw up at every turn?

I don’t think a school is going to be found liable for letting kids carry backpacks if one sneaks in oil. Any attorneys here? If negligence can’t be shown, is the school at fault? Is allowing backpacks negligent, and if so, wouldn’t a school need to ban them completely, not just on the last day of school?

By JustMe

May 22, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this

My dear MBW,

I seriously doubt that you are a teacher in GA. Otherwise, you would know that GA doesn’t have any teacher unions. We have discussed this at some length in previous blogs. However, you deception is so obvious, I had to point you out.

Know that I agree with you that we need need better teachers and stronger administrators, and throwing money at a problem doesn’t always solve it.

By OldSchool

May 22, 2007 5:19 PM | Link to this

Out students’ last day is Friday. Seniors are taking their finals today and Wednesday. Underclass finals are Thursday (3rd & 4th blocks) and Friday (1st and 2nd blocks).

With MTV airing that gosh-awful show “High School Stories,” it will be interesting to see which acts of idiocy and vandalism will be reinacted.

I’ll also be grading drawings and assignments, inventorying my lab equipment (drafting), clearing files off computers, sorting and storing supplies, grading all those genuine finals (15 % of their final grade), dealing with all the requests for printing that seem to crop up at the last minute and finally donning my robe and hood to attend graduation.

But hey, I’ll find the time to share any clever pranks I hear of, okay?

By JustMe

May 22, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this

Jane -

My heart goes out to your family, especially your grandson. As a public high school teacher, I would recommend that you really examine the various schools available in your area. Find a middle school that scores well on the CRCT (you can find this data online), and one that doesn’t do social promotion. Those are the best clues as to which are the ‘good’ schools. You may need to establish residency in that school district, but it would be worth it. If you cannot find a public middle school, then try a private middle school.

Too often, middle school is viewed as a ‘black hole’ of education and it should not be. Some people think that just because kids are going through their growth spurts that they suddenly are unable to learn. Don’t let these be wasted educational years for your grandson!

Once he has finished middle school, you can examine the various high school options. Find one that graduates students with high SAT scores and with the other attributes that constitue a good high school. Find one whose graduates go to the better colleges - that is another clue. Again, there is a lot of data online available to you.

Good luck!

By Attn: Clayton County Parents

May 22, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this

As far a Perdue and charters, all the evidence you need is in what the Georgia Association of Educators is trying to do to totally gut the discipline proposals in Clayton to realize that ANYTHING that will break up the monopoly of the status quo is a good thing.

Of course GAE opposes this: they don’t want ANYTHING that threatens their power. Case in point: Clayton finally gets a discipline policy that gives the teachers the right to remove chronically disrutive students (why would ANYBODY oppose this save the parent of the child who is REFUSING to parent?)

Oh, one group would: GAE (that this paper calls it a “teachers’ organization” indicates just how clueless it seems to be on education issues) GAE is an organization of teachers AND administrators, and thus CANNOT support anything that supports the teachers right to control her class. That’s why GAE immediately gets a board member to sneak a counter proposal to gut the teacher’s authority.

And THAT is why Perdue’s bill is a good start. Turn them ALL into charter schools, and give COMPETENT people the power to make choices, instead of leaving it up to an incompetent system that prohibits choices.

If the AJC reporters really want to look into a story that could have GROUNDBREAKING effects on education, look into the Teacher’s Bill of Rights proposal in Clayton…if your editors will let you DARE look into something that might actually paint the REAL “teachers’ organization” in a good light.

By HB

May 22, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this

Just me, your logic in responding to Stacey is flawed. Laws against robbery are not parallel to banning backpacks. There are rules against pulling pranks, just as there are laws against robbing banks. However, there are no laws against carrying a purse into a bank because you may have a weapon inside that could be used in a robbery. That would be the equivalent of a bookbag ban.

By catlady

May 22, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this

Hey, I’d never take on KA on the math hall the last day of school! As I remember, she is an FSU alum as am I (MS, 1990) and besides, we’d probably go to the humanities wing for our showdown!

Seriously, those of you who think these are the result of an over-reaction need to volunteer some time to help with clean-up after the last day. Maybe YOUR child wouldn’t do anything so crass, but there are lots of others who would (and would also say THEIR child would not do anything like that), Teachers hear it on a regular basis. On top of that, there are serious safety issues.

By catlady

May 22, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

HB, here is the deal: on the last day of class NOTHING will happen to a kid who does something bad. The parents will claim “he was just blowing off steam” and they won’t punish him, and the school has little it can do since it is not in authority over him at that point. Unlike a bank robbery, which has no “last day”. Unless the police are involved with the last day “prank” due to injury to someone, NOTHING will happen. I have seen it time and again, over the last 33 years, except now it is MUCH, MUCH worse.

By catlady

May 22, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this

You know, some of the responses to this topic are case in point for why the rules are made: parental denial and rebellion which frequently manifests itself in student behavior. The old “you can’t tell me what to do” attitude. We have talked about it on this blog before. The school does not make rules arbitrarily, just to stifle your precious child and their enjoyment of summertime. It is in response to REAL THINGS that have happened. The seeming unwillingness of some of the parents here to grant authority to the school is part and parcel of the problem! And let the teachers say “AMEN.”

By Jazzy B

May 22, 2007 6:07 PM | Link to this

Well I’m an up coming senior at my school, Chamblee High, and our rules for the last week of school are kind of out there. We cant bring any bag bigger then an 8x11 sheet of paper. I mean to me that rule is just not reasonable. Oh… not to mention they will not issue any passes for things like the restroom so that there aren’t alot of kids in the hallway.

By Lisa B.

May 22, 2007 6:09 PM | Link to this

I say stick with the rules. As was said previous blogs, rules are passed as a result of some inappropriate action. In my system, the rules were enforced and the last day of school, (last Friday, lucky me!) ended without incident. I agree with Catlady’s post. NOTHING happens to kids who get into mischief the last day of school, so many kids PLAN to be “bad” that day. The rules are not arbitrary. Just live with them.

By Attn: Clayton County Parents

May 22, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this

Well catlady, ONE organization is trying to change this: MACE (the one the AJC editors won’t allow positive coverage of)

With Norreese Haynes and the Teacher Bill of Rights FINALLY someone is willing to recognize the 5,000 lbs elephant in the classroom: discipline.

It’s no wonder Sid Chapman of the GAE (who’s administrative members live in mortal fear of having to show some backbone) are trying to gut it with their own proposal.

The real question is why would ANY teacher join GAE, when they’ll sell your rights as a teacher to maintain the learning environment up the river in a heartbeat.

Or worse yet PAGE who was willing to give up your fair dismissal rights as a teacher if Barnes would give you…a teacher car tag?

How many of you teachers out there who proudly display your “Support Education” car tags know that it was a bone thrown to PAGE, so they could say they stood up for you, when they wouldn’t contest you losing your fair dismissal rights?

Think about THAT over the summer…

By luvs2teach

May 22, 2007 7:04 PM | Link to this

Amen, catlady :-)

This isn’t as big a deal as everyone wants to make it out to be, for Pete’s sake.

Books have been collected - lockers have been cleaned out. Even PE lockers were cleaned out last week. What on earth are they carrying in that there bookbag, y’all?

As someone else said, it’s one more thing for them to forget in the excitement of the last day. At my middle school we are having finals Thursday and Friday - all they need is a pencil. We are eating in the cafeteria (although at my other, much tougher, middle school, we ate in our rooms the last WEEK of school).

When my kids were in elementary, the school had a very nice day for them planned with activities, including a concert - nice celebration - no need for a book bag. I wasn’t even a teacher then (wasn’t even thinking about it) and I couldn’t have cared less!

Now, on the flip side, my kids were telling me about a rumor on myspace about something “planned” at one of our local high schools on the last day. I don’t lend much credence to the rumor, but why chance it?

By HB

May 22, 2007 7:05 PM | Link to this

Catlady, I understand what you’re saying, but I just don’t think these rules are the answer. There should be consequences on the last day, and I don’t understand why there aren’t. Most kids will remain in the school system. Systems should have policies in place to punish offenders the first day of the next school year even if they’ve moved up to a new school. Or how about refusing promotion to the next grade until punishment is completed (example: make them come in and pick up trash a few days in the summer). If damage is done that costs real money to fix, the police should be called in because vandalism is illegal. When I was in high school, if we didn’t turn in text books and library books or pay fines at the end of the year, we were not issued report cards and could not go on to the next grade. Why can’t the same thing be done for violators who have not completed their “sentences”?

I really feel these would be far better solutions. They certainly send a stronger message and leave students with the choice of doing right or facing consequences without taking away everyone’s priviledges. And best of all, it can show students that there are ALWAYS consequences for one’s actions, even on the last day of school.

By Stacey

May 22, 2007 7:24 PM | Link to this

Catlady…Oops, I looked at my fight card wrong and announced y’all for the wrong wing! Looking back on it now, it was the silliest thing because most of the fights were planned months in advance. 90% of them involved girls fighting over a boy who had moved on to girl #3 by the time the fight took place. Still, there was always someone around to keep the stoke the fire and make sure the fight took place as promised. That was at a time when fights involved fists, not weapons. My sisters and I never got caught up in it because: 1. we thought it was silly (even then) and 2. We feared Mama a whole lot more than the principal (or police, for that matter). :_)

Just Me… I don’t mean to imply that I condone misbehavior at any time of the year, nor am I saying that there shouldn’t be rules / laws. I simply don’t understand the logic behind some of them. In no way is that an attempt to undermine teachers.

I took Chemistry in 11th grade and cheating was rampant in the class. The teacher made us leave our books, jackets and purses (we didn’t carry backpack then) on the floor at the front of the room and the only thing we could take to our desks was a pen (or pencil) and a calculator. People then started writing formulas on “microscopic” cheat sheets and rolling them up and sticking them in their pen tops. Also, about 1/2 the class would “forget” to bring a calculator for test day and have to “share” with their buddy sitting next to them. Person A would put 4 in the calculator and hand it to Person B. Person B would put in the answer to question 4 and hand it back to Person A. Person A would then write down the correct answer and just put down gibberish as figuring to get the answer thinking that Mr. H wouldn’t look at the figuring. It reached the point where Mr H would come up with several test so that buddies would have different tests. Also, he started making us leave EVERYTHING at the front of the room and would give us a test paper, piece of scratch paper (must hand in with test), a pencil and a calculator. Being that I was a “goody-two-shoes” and wouldn’t share, I thought it was hillarious!

By dr. k

May 22, 2007 7:35 PM | Link to this

Stupid, but necessary safety precautions to protect good kids from the stupid parents’ kids.

By dsl13297

May 22, 2007 7:42 PM | Link to this

Sometimes I get so frustrated watching the news. You know who is in trouble all the time? The teachers who are trying to discipline and policemen who are trying to uphold the law. Rules are rules…it’s that simple. And a mother pitching a fit just tells all kids out there that they don’t have to do what they are told. Do what you want and mommy will take care of the consequences. Kids should be taught to respect authority and follow the rules…end of story.

By 30 Year Teacher

May 22, 2007 8:10 PM | Link to this

HB, You have made up your mind and remain clueless in spite of what active duty teachers are trying to explain. Again, at my school students are not allowed backpacks for every day of exams. Quite honestly, they don’t need them and the kids don’t challenge the rule. We have had very peaceful closings ever since this was initiated. The students are given 2 weeks of advance notice and they comply.

My feeling is if you have nothing better to do than to challenge this particular policy you have very few problems and probably need to find something to engage in that is truly worthwhile. An end of school backpack rule is not overkill nor is it an unneccesary over abundance of rules.

In addition, I’d like to add that kids in our system, do have consequences that can carry over to the next school year. This seemed to have very little, if any, effect even though they knew they would be held accountable and perhaps even suspended, not promoted, etc. for their actions the following year. Prevention works much better than revenge. (You lock your car to prevent theft even though you know the thief will go to jail if caught. Same principle.)

By Lisa B.

May 22, 2007 8:46 PM | Link to this

During the last week of school, our students are not allowed to eat in the cafeteria. I never questioned it. Instead I relish the daily picnic. We no longer have recess and consider lunch outdoors a priveledge the last week of school. Kids and teachers love it, and the weather is almost always fabulous this time of year.

I was very troubled by an above post where kids have to retake the CRCT because the school lost the tests. That is unforgivable!

By JW

May 22, 2007 8:55 PM | Link to this

This (as with many issues in education) is a no win situation for teachers and schools. These last day of school “special rules” are not meant as punishment, but an effective and efficient way to maintain an orderly and safe school environment. I fear some people may be overreacting a bit. If something unfortunate were to happen, don’t think for a minute the school/district would not be second-guessed to death by parents and the media - including the lovely AJC.

By Lisa B.

May 22, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this

To:Att Clayton Parents,

I have read about MACE and vistited the website. MACE seems to be popular with some of our bloggers. However, MACE is not everywhere in the state. GAE has been criticized often on this blog for not being a true union because “real” unions have collective bargaining rights. MACE doesn’t have collective bargaining rights either. Because state law must be changed to allow teachers to have collective bargaining rights, I think the divisive comments made by GAE, MACE and PAGE members hurt teachers. We should unite. Believe me, if 100,000 Georgia teachers got organized, we would see change. Jim D. would no longer have to ask us why we put up with so much :-)

By HB

May 22, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this

30 Year Teacher, first, while you may disagree with me and I with you, I don’t think either of us should be calling the other clueless. Like I said earlier, I have been a teacher too, just a few years ago, and if I hadn’t been, I still don’t believe my opinion would be worthless. And thanks for your concern that I don’t have anything worthwhile in my life. Don’t worry, though, I’m fine. I have time to work full-time at a job I enjoy, volunteer for a few groups, play alumni sports, work on my art, and engage in the thoughtful conversations happening on this blog, which seems to have a particularly intelligent group of regular posters. I’ve enjoyed reading all their comments today whether I agreed with them or not.

And to clarify, while I did use the backpack rule as an example, my problem isn’t with that one rule specifically, it’s with an overabundance of rules — no backpacks, no cafeteria, silent class changes, etc. My concern isn’t one rule; it’s the philosophy behind these rules. Administrators are focusing on strict behavior control rather than teaching kids to make wise choices, taking away priviledges before something bad can happen, not because these kids actually did something wrong. They aren’t being encouraged to earn adults’ trust or think for themselves at all. They’re learning only how to do what they’re told (or at least appear to) and not ask questions.

There have been a lot of media stories lately about helicopter parents and twenty-somethings who can’t take care of themselves. In the past few years, I’ve had college age interns and worked alongside recent graduates, and my colleagues and I are shocked at how many of them show almost no initiative. We’ll find them playing Solitaire and when asked why, they say, “Well, I finished what I was told to do.” They don’t ask for feedback on their work. They don’t seek out new projects on their own. They follow rules to the letter — nothing more, nothing less. They focus on “playing the game” and maintaining the status quo. Don’t we want them to aim higher? Shouldn’t they expect more of themselves? These kids are being babied for too long, whether by parents who help them worm their way out of trouble or by “preventive” rules so restrictive that they never have a chance to develop a sense of personal responsibility. Why are we setting the bar so low?

By jim d

May 23, 2007 8:21 AM | Link to this

Rules—Rules —Rules, Indeed

I know several bloggers here tend to question why the general public distrusts the educational establishment. Perhaps these links may help explain.

Part I— http://www.wsbtv.com/video/13361474/index.html?source=

Part II — http://www.wsbtv.com/video/13369313/index.html

By Jayna R.

May 23, 2007 8:31 AM | Link to this

I didn’t know about the “last day rules” for the last day of school last year. We had just moved here from another state in April, so we did not know about all of the traditions. If my son was notified about the last day rule he just forgot to tell me. I sent him out the door with his bookbag to catch the bus and I saw his crying as he ran up to the house. I didn’t know why, but then he said the bus driver was rude to him and yelled at him for bringing his bookbag, and that he was not allowed to bring it that day. I was puzzled as I had to calm him down (I guess he didn’t know either), and I drove him to school because he missed the bus. That was not a very happy experience with the last day of school. I still couldn’t understand why he wasn’t allowed to bring it on the bus. Thanks for publishing this article, now I know why.

By Dorrie Fletcher

May 23, 2007 8:38 AM | Link to this

If parents instilled more respect and dicipline in their children instead of spoiling them with cell phones and sneakers maybe they would have the integrity to not need these rules.

By Lisa B.

May 23, 2007 8:38 AM | Link to this

HB, you make some very good points. I often lament the fact that schools now “baby” children too much. Today’s schools don’t allow students to make any decisions. Every minute of their school days are scripted, with rules (we call them rituals and routines) of behavior for every single task. Schools do that to prevent chaos, and it works most of the time. However, the students don’t learn to make decisions or develop initiative and self-control. Still, I chose order and safety. Unfortunately, that means controlling every aspect of the school day.

By Jeff

May 23, 2007 8:44 AM | Link to this

jim:

remember what you told me a couple of months ago when I was thinking about blowing the whistle on Bobby Jenkins’ shady practices, that it would simply be seen as a former employee with a grudge and easily dismissed?

same thing in those links!!

By ZACK

May 23, 2007 8:48 AM | Link to this

Jails, Churches and now Schools!!

By Rodger

May 23, 2007 8:53 AM | Link to this

Why bother having the kids in school at all? Since comletion of the CRCT’slast month, my elementary school kids have had:field days, field trips, Mother’s Day teas, End of year music programs, and this week, games, movies, picnics, and ice cream parties. No wonder Georgia’s educational results are so bad.

By WFC

May 23, 2007 8:58 AM | Link to this

Oh my! I don’t attak other bloggers and won’t start now. But anyone who attacks the “end of achool” rules simply doesn’t know what they are talking about. I’m retired after 26 years as a teacher and 4 years as an administrator. I spent my last 16 years at Chattahoochee and Northview, both “good” North Fulton high schools. Here’s the deal:

• Prior to the implementation of the “end-of-school” rules, not only was the campus trashed, so was the surrounding neighborhood.

• Teachers had no time to deal with this. We were busy grading finals, figuring semester grades and packing up our rooms.

• Administrators were busy filling out zillions of reports but I always had my list of children on my “consequences list” (suspensions or detentions) for next year. My list got a lot shorter once the “end-of-school” rules were put in place.

• To the “blow-off-steam” crowd: let the children do this at YOUR home with YOU cleaning up the mess. The rest of us have better things to do with our lives.

• The “no book bags” during finals prevents bringing useless stuff to school. My son took two books (to study for Thursday finals), a pen and a pencil to school today. It was no hardship. His focus is on his exams because he knows that I demand that.

• I am very critical of schools (public and private) but this is one time when they got it right.

By Lisa B.

May 23, 2007 8:58 AM | Link to this

Thanks for the links Jim D. I hate to see such laws abused because inevitably, the ability to come back to work after retirement will be nixed. Many people retire, begin collecting their pension, then continue to work. I have no problem with that. I rural parts of Georgia, we have a terrible time filling high school math and science positions. Often a retired teacher is hired to teach those subjects. The teacher has already accrued his or her retirement pay (after 30 years a teacher receives 60% of the highest salary earned while working). The money has already been earned by the educator. If the person went to work at Penney’s her or she would be paid. Why shouldn’t the retiree receive pay for returning to work in a school?

Currently, there are restrictions on Georgia educators retiring and returning to work in Georgia schools. However, educators can retire from other states and work in Georgia schools without restriction.

I think the news story tried to put as negative a spin as possible on retired teachers returning to work. How is this different from a person who retires from the military, who then begins collecting a retirement check, then goes on to a whole new career? They get paid while working the second career in addition to the retirement check.

I will probably get slammed to pieces for this post, but I’d love to hear some opinions.

By Jeff

May 23, 2007 9:02 AM | Link to this

Rodger:

It is that very “entertainment” focus in ES that makes kids so hard to control when they get to MS and learn that they actually have to WORK 180 days! (Well, a LOT more than ES anyway!)

By Lisa B.

May 23, 2007 9:02 AM | Link to this

Rodger, my elementary students worked right up to the last day of school. We don’t have field trips, but we did have Field Day for a half day. We still had a spelling and Social Studies test that morning. The last day of school we played chess that morning and had a party in the afternoon. The time after the CRCT is perfect for brushing up on weak skills and introducing concepts from the next grade level.

Of course, our students complain that we’re mean, but we’re here to teach.

By Todd

May 23, 2007 9:06 AM | Link to this

Amazing that school are criticized when things happen that they did not do enough to alert authorities or to identify and stop certain students (like Va. Tech). These kids are thugs, many of them at least, and you cannot trust with anything. When I was in school, we could eat anywhere on campus, and we had 45 minutes of lunch. We were released when the bell rang and you left school on your own, either walking out to the bus stop or going to a class for after school program or club. None of this prison environment. But today we have to have this system because of the kids like I have. One was immediately sent before tribunal just last week because of his writing about bring a gun to school to kill and then blowing it up, not to mention many other comments. This was progressive as well. It started several days before and he was warned to knock it off if and write about the topic, yet he continued.

So with demented kids like this and the pure thug trash kids who think they’re all that, I agree that they should be treated like they act. If you want it changed, change the system so the thug kids can be kicked out and not given chance after chance—we the schools are only following the rules you the parents implement through the school board YOU elect.

By Lisa B.

May 23, 2007 9:23 AM | Link to this

Go Todd!

By JG

May 23, 2007 9:30 AM | Link to this

Well considering we are dealing with a different group of kids these days. The peer pressure that we encountered does not compare to what they are dealing with now. Therefore, I understand the need to enforce such rules, but at the same time it does hurt a bit because our kids, especially the seniors, will not have the fun we had the last days of High School. They are missing out on some of the greatest memories of their life.

If we would go back to truly parenting our kids as we were parented, then maybe the administrators would not have to be so strict, then maybe our kids can experience the same joys we did as kids!

By Rodger

May 23, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this

Thanks Lisa. And Jeff, you’re right. When they get to middle school, and aren’t spoon fed answers any more it’s a terrible shock. What we do to the kids now in terms of preparedness is ridiculous. My oldest, God willing, will get out of 8th grade, but way behind the curve (as are most of her friends/classmates, so I know it’s not just her. By 2nd grade, I was amazed at how much more they covered and knew than when I was that age. But from that point forward, the progress has been poor. By 6th grade, we were expected to know more than they have done by 8th! The biggest culprit seems to be “teaching the CRCT”, instead of more material. My second grader has already started slowing up on material, and is becoming bored with school. Teachers, what can be done to keep her motivated? She tested last year for the gifted program, and passed the academic parts, but was not “artistic and creative” enough to be placed there.

By jim d

May 23, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this

No slam Lisa,

You saw what you saw. I simply saw it in a different light. What I saw was not spin against teachers returning but the highly paid administrators, many of which have never stepped foot in a classroom full of students.

Perhaps I see it that way because I’ve been so strongly aware of it for some time in the GCPS administartive staff.

I strongly support bringing teachers back on a part time basis and really don’t have a problem with staff if it truly benefits the kids. However, when administrators take advantage of a law that was passed to provide teachers an opportunity to return and continue to draw large salaries for doing nothing more than being a loyal employee of the super as a reward at tax payer expense—I have serious problems.

This practice should really PO teachers that could be taking advantage of the law to provide a supplemental income but aren’t allowed to because the school system has decided instead to reward an administrative cronie.

By jim d

May 23, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

I’m not too sure it is quite the same.

Acording to the report this has been an ungoing investigation on the part of the media for 3 years.

By jim d

May 23, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this

Punctuation correction.

strongly support bringing teachers back on a part time basis and really don’t have a problem with staff if it truly benefits the kids. However, when administrators take advantage of a law, that was passed to provide teachers an opportunity to return, to continue to draw large salaries for doing nothing more than being a loyal employee of the super as a reward at tax payer expense—I have serious problems.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

May 23, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this

Lisa B, Let me ask you this: Why would ANY teacher join GAE and/or PAGE when they cannot address your concerns as a teacher? Those organizations are dominated by administrators and that’s why the sell you up the river each and every time.

Case in point: MACE opposed Roy Barnes’ political posturing that took away YOUR fair dismissal rights.

PAGE didn’t. You know why? Because Barnes promised the head of PAGE a Support Education car tag for teachers, to look like PAGE stood up for teachers, in exchange for PAGE remaining mute on the issue. And then teachers, blissfully unaware, go out and buy them. Unbelieveable.

ALL 100,000 teachers could join PAGE or GAE and it still wouldn’t make a difference, as they will ALWAYS put administrators first.

It makes as much sense as a group cattle asking to join the Cattleman’s Association, then complaining when they end up on the menu at McDonalds.

Just look at Clayton: MACE came up with a REAL discipline policy (teachers allowed to control the learning environment by removing children who refuse to obey-what a concept!) and GAE swooped right in trying to get their own version passed, one that would totally gut the teacher’s right to maintain discipline.

Not only to teacher’s need to unite, they need to wake up!

By Lisa B.

May 23, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

Jim D., I agree that the example used in the video clip was an abuse of the law. I haven’t seen a shortage of administrators in Georgia, so I see no justification for hiring the Gwinnett man in the news report.

I hate it when a few bad apples mess up a good policy. I figure this report will cause changes in the law. We were very lucky to get a high school chemistry teacher to come out of retirement to teach. Under current law though, I don’t think he can come back full time again next year. A neighboring county had a sub teaching chemistry for the last two years. Of course, as laws change, even more, if not all the kids will take chemistry. We’ll need even more chemistry teachers. I wonder where we will find them.

By jim d

May 23, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this

Lisa,

“Job sharing” is a concept that appears to have eluded many retired teachers that could keep them in a classroom on a part time basis and still benefit the students. And unless I’m mistaken there is nothing that says a teacher must retire at 30 years so if they want to teach full time they simply need not retire in their 50’s.

By jim d

May 23, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this

I fully understand teachers wanting to draw their pensions as early as possible. But why don’t we offer teachers elgible for retirement an incentive or bonus evey year they stay after they reach elgibility?

Say we offer them a bonus that was less than their pension every year and allow them to stay for 40, building a higher pension amount for the last 10 years. What is it now? 60-65% ? Say we make it 5% more if they stay for 40 years and give them a bonus every year of say 3-5 percent while they stay? Wouldn’t that make sense?

By Lisa B.

May 23, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

Teachers accrue 2% of their salary each year they teach. If they retire after 30 years, they get 60% of their highest pay. If they work 40 years, they should get 80% of their pay. I think what happens is that after 30 years many teachers are ready for a break. They retire, travel, start a business, whatever. After a couple of years, they want to go back to work again. Many of them are still in their 50’s at that point. Others intentionally retire, planning all the while to keep teaching. They PLAN to receive their retirement checks AND their salary for a few years. They can pay off any debts, or sock away some money. I think bonuses would be a nice incentive to keep teachers working after 30 years.

By holdingAJCaccountable

May 23, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this

Jim D,

I would submit to you a more effective way of keeping these teachers on board is to address the root causes of why they want to leave.

Real support; not having to implement bogus “reform” after bogus “reform”. The ability to give the student the grade he earned without a spineless administrator blaming you for the student’s performance. Real discipline policies that tell the student “YOU have the responsibility to behave; it’s not the teachers’ responsibility to ‘push the right buttons’ to make you behave, it’s YOUR responsibility to behave” (Just that one change in mindset alone, and I bet half of that 1/3 of new teachers who quit within 3-5 years might stay.)

Sure, you can get some to “put up with it” for the extra money. Is that what we want?

By high school teacher

May 23, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this

When I was in high school, if we didn’t turn in text books and library books or pay fines at the end of the year, we were not issued report cards and could not go on to the next grade. Why can’t the same thing be done for violators who have not completed their “sentences”?

Because the state won’t let us anymore. My mother is a high school bookkeeper, and she used to be the last one to sign off on grade transfer requests. The state now says that monies owed to a school can’t keep a student from getting a report card, graduating, or even from transferring to another school in a different county. Schools can still keep a senior from walking at graduation, but they can’t keep them from getting a diploma because they haven’t turned in their books.

By BJ

May 23, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

Going back to the earlier comments on last day of school - my daughter graduates tonight from a Gwinnett high school, thus ending my 19 years of dealing with GCPS. My experience has been that teachers stop teaching about 1-2 weeks BEFORE the last day of school, take up books and have the elementary students clean the classrooms for them (my daughter knows how to clean a desk at school better than her own room!)Why can’t they teach up till the end of the school year? The whole concept of having 180 days of “instruction” is ludicrous. We get,at best, 160 days when you factor out all the busy work. And we wonder why our students are at the bottom of the list….

By jim d

May 23, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

Lisa,

I just did a bit of math based on quaranteeing a 3% salary increase every year for anything over the 30.

Here’s how it brakes down based on a teacher making $50,000 a year at the end of 30 years.

After 40 years with the quarantee the teacher would be making $71,290 a year. Using the 60% factor the teacher retiring after 30 years would get a pension check every year for $30,000 where a teacher that stuck it out for the 40 would draw one for $42774. or for $12,774 more per year. Sounds like a pretty fair incentive to me without needing to add a cash bonus. Think we could get the legislature to buy into this concept?

By jim d

May 23, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this

BJ,

Don’t forget the 40+ days of redundant testing.

By jim d

May 23, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this

Holding,

We’ve been down that road and teachers aren’t interested in changing their working conditions so it would be pointless to continue to explore why.

By Attn. Clayton Parents

May 23, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

Lisa B,

I’m disappointed you didn’t respond. I more than see your point that teachers should unite. But would you ask cattle to “unite” by joining a ranchers’ organization. Would you ask deer to unite by joining the NRA?

Part of teachers “uniting” is to stop joining organizations that want to weaken them. Ask a GAE and/or PAGE representative point blank if teachers should have the authority to remove chronically disruptive children from the learning environment.

Ask them if they feel administrators need to do a better job supporting teachers.

I have. And they won’t give you a straight answer, because they can’t

I understand you want teachers to unite, but that means that teachers have to educate themselves on the goals and purposes of the organizations that claim to represent them.

Specifically, how can an organization that represents management, advocate for your rights as an employee? Because if you join GAE and/or PAGE that’s what you are expecting them to do. Why do you think school systems invite THEM to new teacher orientations and not MACE?

PS You don’t have a Support Education car tag per chance? Don’t mean to offend, but that is the reason (PAGE agreed to it in exchange for not opposing Barnes getting rid of your fair dismissal rights) that we have them in Georgia.

By holdingAJCaccountable

May 23, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

Jim D,

Hope springs eternal that it may one day change. But for now all the anecdotal evidence points in your favor. You may have upset teachers with your topic the other day, but the fact is, that as a whole, teachers are sheep and thus, as a whole, are getting the treatment they richly and fully deserve :(

By jim d

May 23, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this

Attn. Clayton Parents,

Speaking of gifts any idea what teachers gave up for the $100 gift card or was that simply a reward for voting?

By Lisa B.

May 23, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

Jim D. I love your idea!

By Joan

May 23, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

My daughter is in 7th grade. Her Middle School is not allowed to have any parties for the end of the school year other than the 8th grade celebration. She was in structed to nring a pencil and highliter to school today. We were told the principle had too many complaints about the last day of school last year. My 4th grader is watching movies all day. He partied all day yesterday and had game day the day before.

By OldSchool

May 23, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this

Of course, if any teacher wants to continue teaching past 30 years, all it takes is being offered and accepting another contract. (This makes 33 years for me.) School admins have a veritable bag of tricks to help them get rid of undesirable teachers. No contract, reassignment to another school/subject area, giving them the most “challenging” students, less than satisfactory performance reviews, and so on.

As for me, I got the shock of my career the other day when I was actually asked to return for at least one more year beyond next! (I had planned on retiring in ‘08). Hard to believe they would actually WANT me back! Maybe what I’ve been doing IS valued by someone!

By jim d

May 23, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

holding,

I disagree that they deserve it, but for some god forsaken reason they certainly accept it.

By Attn. Clayton Parents

May 23, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

Jim D,

I think the gift card was just election year politics. Think there will be one forthcoming next year? LOL

But I bet you PAGE will express “disappointment” when it doesn’t happen.

By Lisa B.

May 23, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

Att: CP,

I have not had the experience with GAE you described in your post. On the contrary, I have seen members experience a great deal of support from GAE. I am not in the Metro area, so mayber that is the difference. PAGE, on the other hand, is useless. GAE gets lots of new members after PAGE people have a problem and receive no help. Typically the teachers join GAE after that experience.

I absolutely agree with your take on discipline. It is the students’ responsibility to behave. If students do not behave, they should not be in school. It is interesting, that in a nearby school system, and 10-year-old boy took a loaded gun to school with the admitted intention that he planned to kill another student. He didn’t do it, but was expelled from the system. Neighboring systems refused to admitt him. Now the parents are in hot water legally, because the boy is required by law to attend school. That boy SHOULD be the parents’ problem. Schools are responsible for maintaining a safe learning environment.

I read with interest you post about the discipline procedures in Clayton County, and wonder why on Earth GAE would disagree with a policy that gives more power to teachers. It seems that would even work well for administrators, so I don’t understand the disgreement. I have few details.

By jim d

May 23, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

KUDO’S old school

By Lisa B.

May 23, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

Yes, the teachers are getting another $100 gift card this summer, with a limited time in which to use it, of course.

By holdingAJCaccountable

May 23, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

Jim D,

That’s why I made a distinction between “teachers” as a group, and individual teachers. Because individual teachers don’t deserve the garbage they have to put up with.

But the profession as a whole needs to take some responsibility for the way it’s treated, and that’s why I say they “deserve” it.

By Lisa B.

May 23, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

Old School, obviously your school knows how valuable you are! Teachers are retiring in far greater numbers than colleges of education can train replacements. Some school systems haven’t figured this out.

By high school teacher

May 23, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this

With regard to MACE…

I had been teaching for twelve years (in a metro Atlanta county) and never had heard of MACE until on this blog last year. I am leery of it simply because it has no national backing. I looked on their website, http://www.theteachersadvocate.com/, but it is difficult to read.

Part of their brochure has pictures of dogs that supposedly represent other organizations. For example, the white French poodle represents GAE, whereas the doberman represents MACE. I question the need to belittle other organizations in order to make theirs seem like the best choice. With all due respect, I liken their website to a used car sales lot with the giant gorilla balloon flying overhead.

At any rate, the only reason I am a member of GAE is the liability insurance.

By Attn. Clayton Parents

May 23, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

Lisa B,

Maybe it is different outside the metro area. But if you have an abusive administrator, (totally fabricated “evaluations” when the principal wasn’t even in the room at the time of the “observation”) I’ve never seen an instance where GAE effectively stepped in. I’ve seen MACE do it time and time again.

It’s been covered by the local paper in Clayton. The Teacher’s Bill of Rights specifically gives teachers the right to remove disruptive students. It also protects them from retaliation by allowing teachers to evaluate principals, and specifically giving teachers the right to speak out on matters of concern.

GAE doesn’t seem to like this, (but why wouldn’t an administrator, who’s doing their job, not welcome the chance for staff to evaluate that? That’s what THEY always tell teachers right?)

MACE offered to meet with the GAE rep in Clayton, to discuss the Teacher’s Bill of Rights, but GAE refused.

Instead they appealed to the Chairman of the Board Erika Davis-a GAE member- directly (in a manner that the system’s attorneys are concerned about the legality)

GAE might serve a purpose for issues that concern teachers AND administrators, but I can’t see teachers, who are SO in need of an advocate, joining an organization that can’t (due to conflict of interest) fully advocate for them.

By kerrell goolsby

May 23, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

You stop an attack before it starts. These school boards are doing the right thing in banning book bags for the last few days of school. After all, who wants to be remembered for bringing a stink bomb in the lunch room?

By catlady

May 23, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

The idea about holding kids accountable for end of the year problems is less effective because, as we all learned from intro psych, a negative consequence needs to be immediate to be most effective. In addition, if a child is hurt or someone’s car is trashed, it does not matter much that the child is supposed to be punished in 2 months. In addition, due to pack mentality, a situation can escalate rapidly if one student misbehaves and others decide to follow suit. Finally, some schools experience a lot of turnover from year to year. These are reasons for the rules in addition to those cited above. We have parents owing literally hundreds of dollars to the school lunch program. In addition to the kids continuing to be served a full lunch everyday, the parents skip out, year after year, with no consequences for not paying.

My county is not big on hiring retired teachers, even part-time, unless they are big friends with someone in central office. Then, you will be hired to be a glorified messenger boy for boucoup money!

It is a shame to lose the expertise each year. No step raises after 21 years doesn’t help, but rather than the money I’d like to have some of the things noted above.

By Jeff

May 23, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this

Lisa:

Email me details about that story please…

By JustMe

May 23, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

high school teacher,

MACE also offers liability.

MACE is local to the Atlanta area. It is not a national organization. It only serves the counties around Atlanta. That is why it the MA in MACE stands for Metro Area!

Although MACE is not a real “union” either, it does only support teachers and doesn’t accept administrators. This is exactly opposite of GAE and PAGE function where they support administrators, but will take the money (dues) of teachers and don’t support teachers.

MACE has been around a while, but doesn’t really go after members. Remember that PAGE and GAE get administrative support, so they are able to speak in faculty meetings, etc. Administrators would never invite MACE to speak in a faculty meeting. MACE members usually join due to word-of-mouth.

You are right in that MACE is more demonstrative, but IMHO they have to be. They will literally picked a school where the administration is mis-treating a teacher, for example. And, they do post pictures on their web site. They will quickly notify the ajc and all local media when a teacher is mis-treated to try to gain support for that teacher. They are trying to show how they support teachers when we are abused by administrators.

If you really make decisions based on marketing, and you don’t like how MACE markets, that is one thing. But, IMHO, MACE is an orgainization for teachers whereas the other two are organizations for administrators - at least in GA.

I have been a member of MACE for 2 years now, and will continue to join until I retire - unless a real teacher union is allowed in GA. [and jim d - please don’t start with ‘but GA does allow union’ crap]

By high school teacher

May 23, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

Maybe it is different outside the metro area. But if you have an abusive administrator, (totally fabricated “evaluations” when the principal wasn’t even in the room at the time of the “observation”)

I guess I am really ignorant to the problems of other places. Does that really happen?

By Attn. Clayton Parents

May 23, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this

High School teacher,

You’re paying dues to an organization (GAE) that offers liability insurance that is a SCAM! You’re already covered by Georgia law! In fact MACE will give you $100 if you can find even ONE teacher who’s used the so-called liability insurance.

The link below explains it all. (you have to cut and paste) Yes, MACE is “in your face”. But scams like “liability insurance” ought to make YOU angry, not just MACE.

Teachers simply MUST do a better job of educating themselves as to what the different organizations do.

I hope you’ll follow the link and post back about the “liability insurance”. And don’t feel bad if you’ve been taken. I was a PAGE member once too…for the liability insurance! I got lucky, a friend of mine’s ex-wife was a teacher and showed me a MACE brochure. I got lucky…then I got SMART :) http://theteachersadvocate.com/id101.html

By Lisa B.

May 23, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

Att CP,

When the teacher has a disruptive child removed from the class, where does the child go? You may recall that Georgia passed a discipline bill several years ago allowing teachers to have disruptive students removed from their classrooms, but there was no place for the students to go but to other teachers’ classroom. I LIKE my coworkers. If I have a completely horrible student in my class, I am not going to have him moved to one of my coworkers’ classrooms.

Few administrators in this area are in GAE, so GAE has little conflict when issues arise. I understand it would be difficult if there was a teacher/administrator conflict, and both parties were GAE members. That seems to put GAE in the position of determining who was right and who was wrong. Awkward.

By JustMe

May 23, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

Lisa B.-

No - GAE is not put in any awkward position. They quickly side with the administrator because dues for administrators and more and they know that teachers are pawns and will quickly be replaced.

By Angry about CRCT

May 23, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

Lisa B. - The school did not lose the tests. The testing company did.

By Jeff

May 23, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

HST:

Let’s just say that Victor Lee over at Newton High gave me an eval exactly one year ago today - AGAINST state law. Also AGAINST state law, guess how many evals I was given? ONE. Also AGAINST state law, guess how many I was given before I was informed that my contract would not be renewed? NONE. Also AGAINST state law, guess how many total evals I had there? ONE.

But guess what? I made quite a few parents mad because I wouldn’t coddle their poor little babies - who happened to be 14+ years old.

It is memories like those that keep me in programming even when I would like - in some ways - to go back to teaching.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

May 23, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

High School teacher,

A student gets detenion, and his brother comes to remove him with a handgun for backup (but administration doesn’t want an “incident”, so it doesn’t report it)

And why didn’t the teacher? Because school policy is that only an administrator is allowed to call police.

A teacher punched in the face, but no consequences to the child because the teacher needs to improve “classroom management skills”

Don’t get me started…it’s not “that bad” it’s WORSE!

By Attn: Clayton Parents

May 23, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

“When the teacher has a disruptive child removed from the class, where does the child go?”

That’s what Erika Davis (the BOE chairman) said. My first thought: Who cares?! Let’s worry about that problem, AFTER we’ve restored the learning environment for the majority of kids who behave.

Think about what you are saying: and please, think about it in abstract terms, as I’m not blaming you at all for dynamics beyond your control.

A teacher has a horribly behaved child. But because the system doesn’t provide for discipline we just let that child ruin it for 25 other kids? Would we let a drunk driver stay on the road, because we don’t want to put him with our friend who’s driving on the road next to him?

Does this make any sense? But this is what we ask teachers to do. (Again Lisa B, not blaming you AT ALL) Then we compound that with the LIE that the child is horribly behaved only because the teacher hasn’t “engaged” him, because the school system is too spineless in what he needs to be “engaged” in….consequences for misbehavior.

The fear as express by Chairman Davis, is that the child will be put out of room after room. Well, doesn’t that tell you the CHILD is the problem, NOT the teacher?!

It’s funny how MOST of these children will, given consistent consequences, “address their educational needs” on their own, without any “differentiated instruction” or any other such education jargon.

By high school teacher

May 23, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

Well, I guess that’s why I won’t ever teach in Clayton County!

Thanks for the info on MACE. Actually, I do know of someone who did use the liability/attorney from GAE on a school-related matter, and he won his case. He had been suspended without pay and was reinstated. I’ll forward the brochure to him so he can get his $100.

Is MACE available only in the metro area?

By Arizona girl

May 23, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

The reason schools have become so regimented is that students have become out of control. They no longer have the proper training to understand that destruction does not equal fun. They do not have consequences in other parts of their lives, so they feel they can act however they want to at school. We have had several car wrecks because of students throwing notebooks and bookbags out the windows of the bus. Bus drivers have to monitor everything that the student do and drive. What would your parents have done to you if you did something like that? If you answer nothing, then that is probaly why more kids are acting this way.

When children are taught at home and church, children know right from wrong.

By Lisa B.

May 23, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

Att CP:

Again, I agree with you. It is crazy to blame the teacher for a child’s behavior. We have no way to punish the child. Corporal punishment is gone, the kids are too fat, so we can’t make them miss PE, I can’t ground him or take away his games and TV. 99% of the time, the parents side with the child and do nothing to correct the behavior. It’s hard to completely engage children when we are forced to use scripted lessons and drill the CRCT. Boring!!! Then when little Johnny acts out, its our fault. ARGGHH!

I am soooo ready for summer break! Only twenty years to go….

By Lisa B.

May 23, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this

I am not sure why and when schools decided that maintaining discipline is not important. I was scared to death of paddle-weilding teachers, and would have died if I’d ever been sent to the principal’s office. Plus, whatever happened at school paled in comparison to what happened at home.

By jim d

May 23, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this

lisa,

I’m offically down to one school year as of now!! of course I won’t draw any retirement and will be forking out money for college. But hey, I’ll be done with the public schools.

By Attn: Clayton County Parents

May 23, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this

“I’ll forward the brochure to him so he can get his $100.”

Hope MACE isn’t mad…it was on their website after all (but was it the attorney or the liability insurance he used?)

MACE is growing…word of mouth. Not sure how far they are out yet, but I know teachers are fed up with lack of support.

And Clayton MIGHT be the worse system is Georgia. But with MACE (and some board members) pushing the Teacher Bill of Rights that could change.

And if teachers start going to Clayton because of the Teacher Bill of Rights that could force other systems to adopt one as well. That’s my hope anyway.

And yes, I admit MACE is “in your face”. But so was Hosea Williams…but when he was right (like about Civil Rights) he was right-and courageous too. And MACE is right about discipline, and how the lack of administrative support is ruining the profession (Of course, I wouldn’t have gotten in Hosea’s Cadallic for any amount of money :)

My point is that teachers have been beat down for so long, it’s good to see someone stand up for them, even in an “in your face” way

By Attn: Clayton parents

May 23, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

Lisa B,

I’m ready for summer too…but all the above about discipline is why I joined MACE. They may not be perfect, but they seem to be the ONLY entity who speaks truthfully about the plight of the classroom teacher.

By the way. How is it a Republican Gov. and General Assembly who talks about “law and order” hasn’t addressed the lack of support for discipline?

By high school teacher

May 23, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

Okay, CP, now I see where I went wrong…

when I said “liability insurance”, it was a nice way of saying C.Y.A. I am a member of GAE in case I ever need an attorney for some reason, like my friend did. It’s not called liability insurance - I didn’t sign a policy or anything - but GAE provides an attorney for school-related cases, with up to 1 million covered, regardless of the outcome of the trial/hearing/whatever. I should not have said the phrase “liability inusurance.”

Jeff, you should have contacted the Professional Standards Commission if your contract wasn’t renewed and you only had one eval, which was at the end of the year. I hate that that happened.

By Lisa B.

May 23, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

It sounds like the ntire state of Georgia should adopt the Teacher Bill of Rights. The state school board says some incredibly high percentage of teachers will be retiring in the next two years. We already have a national teacher shortage. The young people entering the profession are often unwilling to put up the the BS and hazards of the profession. The conditions must be improved. Conditions are not nearly as bad where I teach as some of those outlined in above posts, but honestly, its not great anywhere. Teachers are accountable for everything; even things beyond our control. We are now expected to differentiate instruction for each individual child. The profession seems not to have the appeal it used to, and most college students major in other fields.

I am glad you have MACE. If I ever end up in the Metro area, I feel certain I’d join, too. At this point though, I plan to stay in rural Georgia :-)

By Lisa B.

May 23, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

It sounds like the entire state of Georgia should adopt the Teacher Bill of Rights. The state school board says some incredibly high percentage of teachers will be retiring in the next two years. We already have a national teacher shortage. The young people entering the profession are often unwilling to put up the the BS and hazards of the profession. The conditions must be improved. Conditions are not nearly as bad where I teach as some of those outlined in above posts, but honestly, its not great anywhere. Teachers are accountable for everything; even things beyond our control. We are now expected to differentiate instruction for each individual child. The profession seems not to have the appeal it used to, and most college students major in other fields.

I am glad you have MACE. If I ever end up in the Metro area, I feel certain I’d join, too. At this point though, I plan to stay in rural Georgia :-)

By Teacher, Too

May 23, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

I have had my students working up through today. All they have done is whine about it. Tomorrow and Friday, we’re watching the movie version of the novel we’ve been reading.

On a similar note, though: at every school I have taught at in the past 10 years (I’ve been teaching for 18), I’ve been required to turn my grades in about a week before school was out. This year, grades were due by yesterday. I will count the essays that come in today if the grade will bump a student from a “B” to an “A” or a “C” to a “B” or so on.

Thus, it becomes easier for teachers to quit teaching and let the kids watch appropriate videos for the last few remaining days while they start organizing and putting things away.

I would love to teach until Friday. I have many things I could do- but the question I always get is, “Will this grade count?” I hate to lie and say yes when I know it’s going in the trash.

By Teacher

May 23, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

WE AS ADULTS HAVE NOTHING ELSE BETTER TO DO THAN TRY TO CREATE A BUNCH OF STUPID RULES THAT DONT MEAN ANYTHING ANYWAY IF SOMEONE IS GOING TO ACT UP ON THE LAST DAY OF SCHOOL NINE TIMES OUT OF TEN THEY WERE ACTING A FOOL ALL YEAR LONG IF SOME OF THE STUDENTS LEAVE THERE BELONGINGS IN THE CLASS DO SOMETHING GOOD FOR A CHANGE DONT STEAL IT DONATE IT TO A CHURCH DUMBO AS FOR THE MESS THE CHILDREN OR ADULTS MIGHT LEAVE STOP STEALING MONEY OUT OF THE SCHOOL SYSTEMS AND MAYBE WE CAN HIGHER A GOOD CLEAN UP CREW ANYWAY CHILDREN HAVE TO GROW UP TO SOON AS IT IS LET THEM HAVE THERE FUN AN LAY OFF OF THE PARENTS THAT HAVE TO WORK EVERYDAY AS WELL THEY ALREADY GOT TOO MUCH TO WORRY ABOUT AS IT IS LET ALONE TRING TO KEEP UP WITH THE LAST DAY OF SCHOOL RULES

By Lisa B.

May 23, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this

Congratulations Jim D! Hopefully you’ll keep on blogging long after you are finished with public school :-)

By Lisa B.

May 23, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

The GAE attorneys and Uniserve Directors have saved many teachers in this area. I don’t know if that is called ‘liability insurance,’ but when something happens, help is there. I know several teachers who have gotten their jobs back, or avoided being fired over incidents beyond their control. I also know of cases where harrassment by principals was stopped.

By Attn: Clayton Parents

May 23, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

High School teacher,

That makes sense (the CYA). But still I think the dynamic with MACE is that they will advocate for you. You might not “legally” be allowed to challenge an evaluation, but I had one go in the trash when MACE inquired. (And yes, I felt comfortable asking MACE to intervene, as the principal wasn’t even in my room at the time of the alledged “observation”)

He stopped by as my kids were lining up for lunch, then decided LATER he had been there for a half hour.

I’ve just seen too many teachers who were GAE and PAGE members who felt they didn’t get the support in cases of abusive administrators.

I’ve known DOZENS who were dissatisfied with GAE/PAGE…only one or two that dropped MACE…and NONE that went back to GAE or PAGE!

Just my experience…

By jim d

May 23, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

Thamks Lisa,

Don’t know if I will or not at this point. While I find most of the bloggers o be congenial there are a few that, shall we say, I find exasperating. :-)

By Al

May 23, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this

I know that the comments have strayed away from the original topic, but I want to return to it. As a middle school teacher, this year was the second year that my team allowed students to carry their bookbags throughout the day. When we didn’t allow them, the last day rules were not an issue. This year, students are complaining about the last day rules and the fact that they will not eat in the cafeteria for the last two days (we are having award ceremonies, and the cafeteria chairs will be in the gym). When I announced we would be having lunch in the classroom tomorrow and Friday, some of my better behaved students began laughing hysterically. When I questioned them, they informed me that there was an inter-team food fight planned for tomorrow in the cafeteria! Strategic plans were being made (where to sit, which lunch to purchase, etc.) as early as last week and as late as today at lunch to make sure that it was going to be a complete success — but the administration got the LAST LAUGH!!

Yes, it’s a shame that we have to have the rules, but here is a prime example of why!

By jim d

May 23, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this

Al,

Danged if it don’t sound like the little urchins are excited about the thought of escape and an opportunity to be kids again. I’m an old man and I still get excited about escaping the daily crap. Y’all need to lighten up on some of the other asinine rules and maybe you wouldn’t need to regulate backpacks and such.

By jim d

May 23, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

What are we really teaching our kids?

Sir Ken Robinson makes an says “We are educating people out of their creativity,”

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/66

By JustMe

May 23, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

Why yes - allow students to run the school! We don’t need any rules. Little kids will absorb all of the material on their own. Surely they will realize, at the age of 9, the value of an education. Surely they will realize, at the age of 12, the implications of their grades on their future.

Let them have food fights.

Let them spray paint on the building.

Why have classes at all? Why have subjects at all?

Certainly with this approach our “students” will surpass all other Countries!

By jim d

May 23, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this

Perhaps they will.

It is, in fact, nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction have not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry; for this delicate little plant, aside from stimulation, stands mainly in need of freedom; without this it goes to wreck and ruin without fail. It is a very grave mistake to think that the enjoyment of seeing and searching can be promoted by means of coercion and a sense of duty. To the contrary, I believe it would be possible to rob even a healthy beast of prey of its voraciousness, if it were possible, with the aid of a whip, to force the beast to devour continuously, even when not hungry, especially if the food, handed out under such coercion, were to be selected accordingly. “Autobiographical Notes,” in Albert Einstein: Philosopher-Scientist, Paul Schilpp, ed. (1951), pp. 17-19 © 1951 by the Library of Living Philosophers, Inc.

By catlady

May 23, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this

Oh, justme, our students already DO surpass all other countries—I just won’t say in WHAT!

By 30 Year teacher

May 23, 2007 5:43 PM | Link to this

To teacher at 2:21 PM. If you are truly a teacher (which I doubt) Georgia education is in great trouble. Miserable spelling, punctuation, etc. in your answer is appalling for anyone but totally unacceptable coming from someone who supposedly has a college education.

To those folks writing about hiring retired teachers: Here in my FL county we can return to the classroom 30 days after retirement but your salary will not accrue additional retirement benefits. Also, FL has what is know as the DROP program (deferred retirement opportunity) which means that you can essentially retire at 30 years or more but continue to teach for 5 years. You will receive your regular salary and your retirement pay goes into a special account receivable when you actually leave the classroom for good. This is a great way to give incentives and keep experienced teachers in the classroom. Makes for a nice amount of money when you leave!(Actually DROP is available to all state employees, I believe)

I have been asked to stay on even though I have completed my 5 years of DROP because we can apply for additional years due to the teacher shortage here. I have chosen to retire but have agreed to sub if they are desperate. :>(