Get Schooled

By Jeff

May 17, 2007 8:36 AM | Link to this

yay jim!!

Anyways, on topic:

There is MUCH fragmentation within the bloc. Much like any civil war (which, in our own way, these reforms would turn out to be within the education field), there are those who support the current system, and there are those who wish to change it. Even among those who wish to change it, however, you have many different ideas of how to change it. Think Iraq here. Same religion (change the system), HIGHLY different strains (some want no government schools at all, some want all government schools to be charter, some want the current system - only enhanced to either expel unruly kids or to do away with standardized testing or to group by ability rather than age, etc etc). Getting all these strains together in a working “government”…. as the Iraqis are seeing, it aint exactly that easy.

By V for Vendetta

May 17, 2007 9:13 AM | Link to this

Bravo jimd, great topic …

As someone who resists drinking the corporate kool aid on a regular basis, I feel that I am often alone in my beliefs at nearly every level. The most obvious response (as you mention) is that many teachers who finally achieve the clout to question the system are so happy to be out of said system, the last thing they feel like doing is raging against the machine.

The thing that may surprise a lot of people, is just how menacing the higher ups and administrators can be when it comes to questioning methods (and ultimately, politics). For example: if any teacher were to attend a BOE meeting in a county as powerful as Gwinnett or Cobb, and speak a dissenting opinion, not only would that teacher be immediately hushed in a literal manner, but he/she would also be silenced through reprimands, job loss (or crap transfer), etc.

Honestly, the administrators in many cases are NOT the ones to blame. They are simply carrying out the orders of the BOE and what not. Most of them have become so disenfranchised with everything going on, that it creates the rather prickly demeanor we at the bottom often witness. They know, just as we know, how stupid many of the edicts are, but they fear for their hard-earned careers just as we do.

Organzing, as you suggest, is a great idea. Unfortunately, there will always be the people that don’t want to fight the battle or want to kiss @ss in hopes of better classes/promotion/spot in the county office, whatever.

Also jim, you’d be shocked as to just how plain stupid many teachers are. The number that remains ignorant to the myriad problems we have in this state is just staggering. And sad. Trust me, were I confident that I would still have a job at the end of the day, I would fight the power with gusto. But I’m not confident, not even close, and I’ve got a family to support.

By Jeff

May 17, 2007 9:20 AM | Link to this

Trust me, were I confident that I would still have a job at the end of the day, I would fight the power with gusto. But I’m not confident, not even close, and I’ve got a family to support.

That is the exact key to why MOST teachers don’t fight. Heck, I was a single guy when I was teaching, and you saw EXACTLY what was done to me. Think about if that had been a man with a family to support…

By GoodNewsForTeachers

May 17, 2007 9:25 AM | Link to this

Teachers fight these battles individually, because they simply do not as a group stand up.

And of course due to rampant retaliation by administrators, some of that is understandable.

Still, teachers are their own worst enemy. Case in point. Why would teachers make GAE and PAGE the two largest educators’ organizations in the state when they cannot support you, because they allow teachers AND administrators to join?

You wouldn’t believe the number of teachers who say “I never knew that” or “I never thought of that”.

But there MIGHT be some good news on the horizon. A Clayton County Board of Ed. subcommittee has proposed a Teacher’s Bill of Rights, to give teachers the right to freely join an association (I can’t tell you the number of times that a bullying principal has tried to keep MACE from their LEGAL right to talk to teachers-by calling the police-yet they will actually give teachers time AND coffee and donuts to talk to a PAGE and/or GAE representative during school hours.

If you’re a teacher, what should that tell you? “Gee, I never thought of that” Well wake up…FOOL!

This policy will also allow teachers to evaluate principals, something that will finally bring some much needed checks and balances to empower classroom teachers.

So why would the GAE representatives in Clayton oppose this (by trying to put forth some watered-down counter proposals)?

If a principal is properly giving the teachers the support they deserve, creating the good teaching conditions needed to learn, SUPPORTING TEACHERS IN MATTERS OF DISCIPLINE, not only should administrators not mind the evaluation, they should welcome the chance to receive supportive feedback from staff. What’s the word they always like to use? Accountability if I recall…

PS When will the AJC start reporting on GAE and PAGE correctly by referring to them as what they are, Educators’ organizations not teachers unions.

They are nothing of the sort, and the AJC should not be a willing participant in the charade.

By decaturparent

May 17, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this

Jim d - the only people that can truly change the garbage that the federal (and state) government has handed us are parents.

The good thing about parents being activists is that they can’t be fired. They can’t be transferred to a bad situation. They aren’t promoted and aren’t trying to get a job in the central office. They can’t be shut up very easily either. Their livelihoods do not depend on their ability to go along with the “latest status quo” like cattle headed to slaughter.

At least 9 of 10 parents that I know think that NCLB is a bunch of C__P and is damaging their children. These include parents of gifted children, mainstream children and special ed. However, their dislike of the law is very superficial. They don’t like that their kids art stressed about tests. They don’t like that their kids don’t have as much art or recess as they used to. They don’t like getting home a bunch of practice sheets on the weekends. They look at NCLB as a benign tumor that is ugly and annoying.

In reality NCLB is not benign. It is a dangerous malignancy. If parents fully understood just how NCLB is destroying their children’s education there would be a rebellion. However, no one has the time to spend to really understand it.

What burns me up is that so many parents have bought into the idea that regurgitation is learning. I guess it takes critical thinking skills to understand that vomiting back a bunch of factoids on a multiple choice test taken in isolation of real life is not preparing their child for anything remotely resembling a decent job.

I guess that the schools must have stopped teaching critical thinking decades ago.

Teachers are not the answer to ending NCLB and similar garbage. Parents are. The next question for this blog is.. how do you get parents to understand what education is supposed to be? How do you get them mad enough to say, “ENOUGH!!!!” Parents are a much bigger and voting block and they cannot be controlled by the educational/political establishment.

By decaturparent

May 17, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this

Oops, sorry for all the typos. I can’t type when I’m mad. :-)

By Teacher for 9

May 17, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

I teach high school, and it is embarassing the things we are asked to do to appease students and parents. The BOE and the administrators at central office have no backbone. Many teachers know that if you try to rock the boat you will be blackballed. Education has nothing to do with education….. it’s all politics.

Unfortunately, you do go with the flow because you get tired of knocking your head against a brick wall.

By high school teacher

May 17, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this

My question for teachers is: Why do you just go with the flow? You have proven you are strong enough to affect the outcome of a gubernatorial election. You are truly a force to be reckoned with when you pull together. So why the feelings of helplessness when it comes to providing what you know works in the classroom?

FEAR. Fear of losing our jobs, fear of being blackballed in the state. Most teachers have education degrees, and if they lost their teaching job, they would enter the business world at the bottom of the ladder. Those of us with families to feed and mortgages to pay just aren’t willing to take the risk.

Rallying to vote for the governor of Georiga obviously is a do-able task. I don’t even recall any huge movement to vote out Barnes; we all just did. However, attempting to abolish NCLB by way of the Presidential election is scary. Teachers who voted for a candidate simply because he or she promised to get rid of NCLB might create a monster elsewhere; i.e. universal healthcare or a raise in taxes.

So, in a nuthsell, jim d, I’m scared.

By just an educator

May 17, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this

as a teacher of six years in georgia, i’ve noticed that the union is not as strong here as it is in other states. therefore, it is a individual battle basically when teachers fight for their rights. i have had several grievances in the past regarding the fairness of treatment as an employee. i have received a very limited amount of assistance from the gae in those affairs. there is a system at work, especially in atlanta public schools, that encourages and promotes those individuals who won’t rock the boat. unfortunately, most teachers are afraid to speak up even when they know they’re being treated unfairly. there is an absence of a unified front when it comes to better treatment and respect as an educator. as far as classroom influence, i take whatever action necessary to teach my students. when facilitators and other adminstrators visit, i do what’s expected of me. otherwise, i incorporate whatever add’l materials/lessons necessary to the benefit of my students.

By Teacher with a big mouth

May 17, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

I do speak up, all the time, can’t stop myself. I’m fortunate to have a supportive principal who does not retaliate and listens to my ideas and supports me WITHIN the building. She never takes anything to a CO meeting though because she also needs a job. It’s a little known fact that County Boards of Education are arrogant toward teachers. They really do think they’re superior. We know better but they make the rules.

By decaturparent

May 17, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

I just thought about my post. I don’t mean to insult teachers at all when I complain that they aren’t in a position to do much of anything about bureaucratic garbage. If I was a teacher I’d absolutely be looking out for my job too. We all need to eat.

It’s just a darn shame that the people who really know what’s going on with education (teachers) can’t use their voice.

By Janine

May 17, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

decaturparent you are so right about the power of parents. Just a small piece of anecdotal evidence. A few years ago, I had a principal who recognized this power and used it well. Whenever he wanted something or needed something done for the school, he would walk up to a group of teachers and announce…’I AM IN NEED OF A PARENT”…

We all knew he meant he wanted one of us [who were parents , not necessarily of kids in the same system..or even in school at all] to make a call to the county office with a complaint. He knew that was the only way to get the county adm. to address the problem at hand. He had to use this tactic for problems from broken air conditioning and or heating to lack of text books and other materials. It sometimes took two or three of us to call, but it usually worked.

By Teacher with a big mouth

May 17, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

Decaturparent-I love it when parents get involved and fight for their children and to make things right. I love it when they go to the board meetings and demand things-because they CAN. This standard of not being able to speak up about work issues is true for most work places. I also disagree with NCLB as does every teacher I know, and every CO person I know. Politicians and the Federal government are ruining our schools, period.

By OldSchool

May 17, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

Many of us may have gotten “put in our places” as I did a number of years ago. I asked an innocent question about donations that had been made to my program the previous year and was told by the bookkeeper that my account had been cleared and any monies put into the school’s general fund. I said nothing at all and did not question as to why this had been done. Later that day I was called to the office (out of my class) by a very loud, very angry principal who used the intercom so my students knew I was likely in big trouble. Once in the office I was blasted for questioning the bookkeeper, her methods, the school’s accounting system, his personal integrity, and practically everything else in the whole wide world. Mind you, my ONE question was “How much money do I have in my shop account?”

I was told that the only reason I was even teaching there was that I was a former student of his and he felt sorry for me. This tirade went on at full volume for well over 15 minutes and left me totally drained and in shock. I was devastated but did as I was told and apologized to him and the bookkeeper. With face red from crying and trying to compose myself, I went back to class and did the best I could the rest of the day.

I never questioned any administrator again…until 2 years ago when asked if I had any suggestions for improving morale. I suggested ending the 5 evaluations and going back to the original 2 plus the end of year. I suggested a pat on the back now and then for good teachers and working individually with poor ones instead of taking the usual shotgun approach to school improvement. And I suggested all this with downcast eyes and humble attitude. It seemed to make them happy.

I still have my job.

By Teacher, Too

May 17, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this

Good job, V. Sometimes, I am just plain embarrassed by my colleagues (I use that term very loosely!). Many (not all, by any means) cannot speak standard English and don’t know their subject matter.

I am sure you probably see this more frequently at the Title schools rather than in the “better” schools. Parents at the “better” schools would not tolerate a teacher who is substandard. Also, administrators at the “better” schools have a much larger applicant pool and can be much more selective.

Me, I still teach at a Needs Improvement school. I find, because I teach gifted, that I have a lot more freedom in teaching than if I went to a “better” school. I am fortunate, though.

Having said that, I still have my share of problems. Everyone does. Mine mostly involve parents who think I am too strict or require too much of their students. Imagine that!

Don’t forget that you always have the vetern teachers (like me) that pay lip service to the next great idea, and then close their doors and do what works best for their students.

I have always maintained that if parents want better schools, they will have to file a law suit and sue to get what they need. The average students get left behind, and those are the parents that need to take action. (The gifted parents won’t be far behind, though, as everything gets watered down more and more every year.)

By jim d

May 17, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

I really did plan to remain out of this blog and just let y’all have at it but I’ve taken all this crap I can!

Now I’d like to see a show of hands of teachers who would not like

a) less standardized testing;

b) to put an end to grade inflation;

c) to ban disruptive students from the classroom;

d) smaller class sizes;

e) to use teaching methods that work for them;

f) to improve education overall.

These are items that the vast majority of teachers agree upon and are attainable. Let me stress that holding a political office is a viable method of bringing about change and there are no laws prohibiting teachers from running for office, campaigning for one of their own, or even creating their own lobby for that matter.

Many teachers speak of the lack of respect for the teaching profession and the dedicated people that enter it. I believe the solution to that is really quite simple. But until teachers care about their profession enough to bring about change it will never happen nor will it ever be viewed as anything more than it is now.

Teaching is the only profession I know of where the dog keeps getting kicked but refuses to bite while he waits for some kind hearted humanitarian (parents) to intervene on his behalf.

Y’all really do have teeth——Bite Back damnit!

By Teacher with a big mouth

May 17, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

OldSchool - there is a teacher shortage. You don’t have to let anyone humiliate you. No way, not ever. Maybe the IRS would like to hear about the unusual bookkeeping at your schhol. Also, it’s a good idea to have a small tape recorder wtih batteries at all times-for times like those. Go prepared and document EVERYTHING the DAY it happens on an email account other than the work one. Ask people you trust to do the same. If you stand up for yourself you’ll find that it can work in amazing ways.

By Jeff

May 17, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

jim:

Point blank:

A teacher that fights is an unemployed teacher.

By teach overseas

May 17, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

See Jim- the story told by OldSchool should enlighten you as to what goes on in many schools- that is why we feel helpless. The fact is, this type of terror does not need to be done to every teacher- just one. EVERY teacher in that school knew what happened to OldSchool then and for years to come- lesson learned by everyone.

And while not everyone is terrorized- many are punished for opening their mouths or being known as a “troublemaker”. And again, it only has to be done to one for the point to be made.

I have a degree in my subject area and then a Master’s in Education and I know that I could get a job in another fieldbut I LIKE teaching. And personally, I have found that my life is much easier when I keep my head down and close my door and concentrate on my kids. I also have a family and friends and interests that occupy my time and energy outside the classroom.

decaturparent has it right- it’s the parents who must rise up and take control of crazyness in the classroom. You can’t expect the teachers to do it all— we can’t.

By jim d

May 17, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

point is only if they fight alone Why is that so difficult for you to grasp?

By jim d

May 17, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

TOS,

Thats a load of donkey dung and you know it.

Why not just admit that you are gutless, spineless amiba or that you really don’t give a rats @ss about the kids?

As smart as y’all are why is it that you can’t grasp the simple concept of strength in numbers? Personally I’m beginning to believe, and your actions and attitudes indicate, you do but that you just don’t really care.

I’ve seen parents rise up only to be condemed by teachers because they were told to do so. Get some friggin backbone folks.

By Jeff

May 17, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this

jim:

There is no “strength in numbers”. See my Iraq example from my first post. Even on common ground, Admins are simply TOO powerful. If parents can take away some of that power, we can take them (admin) on. But not before that.

To use another weaponry example:

Admins have nuclear weapons (the ability to fire/ reassign at will). Teachers have M-16s. The -16 is a formidable weapon, and not one to be messed with. But against a nuclear detonation, it doesn’t stand a chance. Take away the admins nuclear weapons. Even if you still allow them Fuel-Air explosives or Wolverines (called SFW by the AF), just give us better anti-aircraft capabilities and we can take them on.

By Teacher with a big mouth

May 17, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

Jim, I’m answering your questions. 1) less standardized testing; YES! This is a POLITICAL issue, wouldn’t it be nice to find ONE candidate to run on a platform of ending NCLB so we could show our strength in numbers and vote for him or her!!!

b) to put an end to grade inflation; This starts in the classroom. A’s shouldn’t be given easily - blame individual teachers for this one.

c) to ban disruptive students from the classroom; A dream-look toward county special ed departments who have a special way of dragging out referrals of these students and then say they don’t qualify because they’re “socially maladjusted.”

d) smaller class sizes; We have this now!! Finally! At leaset in the counties that didn’t apply for waivers. You can read waiver requests at DOE’s site.

e) to use teaching methods that work for them; We can also do this-nayone who says we can’t is full of it. How many observations are there a year?? Whiners use this one.

f) to improve education overall Amen. Let’s start with foreign language instruction in kindergarten. I’m NOT joking. Model it after the countries, not other states, that are successful.

By GoodNewsForParents

May 17, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

“point is only if they fight alone Why is that so difficult for you to grasp?”

Teachers lack backbone. Period. The End. Yes I know FULL well about being standing up for the things jim d mentioned, and the repercussions.

By teachers are so cowed as a group, they don’t even think of what they COULD do.

Case in point: the join educators’ organizations that will sell their concerns up the river in a heartbeat.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that GAE and PAGE cannot stand up for you if their ranks are filled with administrators

It’s like a mouse joining the “Professional Organization of Mice AND Snakes” and then being upset with them when you file a greviance against a snake that attacked you, or get upset with them that they won’t sponsor legislation that protects mice from attacks by snakes.

Yet teachers, people who alledgedly know how to THINK, turn over their hard earned, underpaid funds to these organizations, then wring their hands and say “I’m scared” when asked why they don’t stand up for themselves

The being scared is understandable. The joining of organizations that have a vested interest in maintaining the conditions that allow “fear based management” to foster is unexcusable

By GoodNewsForTeachers

May 17, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

“point is only if they fight alone Why is that so difficult for you to grasp?”

Teachers lack backbone. Period. The End. Yes I know FULL well about being standing up for the things jim d mentioned, and the repercussions.

By teachers are so cowed as a group, they don’t even think of what they COULD do.

Case in point: the join educators’ organizations that will sell their concerns up the river in a heartbeat.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that GAE and PAGE cannot stand up for you if their ranks are filled with administrators

It’s like a mouse joining the “Professional Organization of Mice AND Snakes” and then being upset with them when you file a greviance against a snake that attacked you, or get upset with them that they won’t sponsor legislation that protects mice from attacks by snakes.

Yet teachers, people who alledgedly know how to THINK, turn over their hard earned, underpaid funds to these organizations, then wring their hands and say “I’m scared” when asked why they don’t stand up for themselves

The being scared is understandable. The joining of organizations that have a vested interest in maintaining the conditions that allow “fear based management” to foster is unexcusable

By GoodNewsForTeachers

May 17, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

“point is only if they fight alone Why is that so difficult for you to grasp?”

Teachers lack backbone. Period. The End. Yes I know FULL well about being standing up for the things jim d mentioned, and the repercussions.

By teachers are so cowed as a group, they don’t even think of what they COULD do.

Case in point: the join educators’ organizations that will sell their concerns up the river in a heartbeat.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that GAE and PAGE cannot stand up for you if their ranks are filled with administrators

It’s like a mouse joining the “Professional Organization of Mice AND Snakes” and then being upset with them when you file a greviance against a snake that attacked you, or get upset with them that they won’t sponsor legislation that protects mice from attacks by snakes.

Yet teachers, people who alledgedly know how to THINK, turn over their hard earned, underpaid funds to these organizations, then wring their hands and say “I’m scared” when asked why they don’t stand up for themselves

The being scared is understandable. The joining of organizations that have a vested interest in maintaining the conditions that allow “fear based management” to foster is unexcusable

By GoodNewsForTeachers

May 17, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

“point is only if they fight alone Why is that so difficult for you to grasp?”

Teachers lack backbone. Period. The End. Yes I know FULL well about being standing up for the things jim d mentioned, and the repercussions.

By teachers are so cowed as a group, they don’t even think of what they COULD do.

Case in point: the join educators’ organizations that will sell their concerns up the river in a heartbeat.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that GAE and PAGE cannot stand up for you if their ranks are filled with administrators

It’s like a mouse joining the “Professional Organization of Mice AND Snakes” and then being upset with them when you file a greviance against a snake that attacked you, or get upset with them that they won’t sponsor legislation that protects mice from attacks by snakes.

Yet teachers, people who alledgedly know how to THINK, turn over their hard earned, underpaid funds to these organizations, then wring their hands and say “I’m scared” when asked why they don’t stand up for themselves

The being scared is understandable. The joining of organizations that have a vested interest in maintaining the conditions that allow “fear based management” to foster is unexcusable

By jim d

May 17, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

Jeff, quit this crap.

It isn’t military. If parents raise enough cain administrators find ways to calm and weather the storm. If teachers make an administartors job undoable as a group —stuff will happen.NOW

If you have a case—take it to the public rather than cowering behind a bunch of lame excuses.

Y’all just need to get over this “I’m all alone in this battle syndrom.

By teach overseas

May 17, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

I believe that would be a

gutless, spineless AMOEBA

By GoodNewsForTeachers

May 17, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

D-mn! Forgive the multiple posts. What the H-ll happened? I clicked, nothing happened…I clicked again…obviously SOMETHING was happening on the blog end!

Sorry :(

By Teacher

May 17, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

NEW BLOG IDEA!! CRCT RESULTS ARE IN! Fulton Co. got theirs whether they admit that yet or not is another thing. Has anyone heard how the scores are this year!?!

By jim d

May 17, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

Thanks TOS,

My spelling sucks at best—none the less you got my point. :-)

By Teacher wabm

May 17, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

Jim, obviously every teacher has their own experience and some are working for dictators. For some reason, managers (principals) who are jerks or bullies get promoted. It happens everywhere. Sociologists have done studies about the percentage of managers who fall on the sociopath scale at one point or another. What a shame our society looks to these types of people as leaders. My point? TOS is obviously in a bad work environment but wants to participate and give a point of view that others must also share. Why name call?

By wwww

May 17, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

Are you taking on the organization of a teacher sick out or something? I don’t see any one person or organization willing to having anything to do with that. Sure, there’s power in numbers, but only when they’re organized.

By teach overseas

May 17, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this

You know jim- I can see you are feeling a little fiesty today. And yes, I think that most of us do get your point- but can’t you open your mind just the tinest bit and see ours?

I didn’t become a teacher to fight the beast- and just because I don’t want to go and slay the dragon does not make me a wimp. I don’t want to fight- I want to teach- and it’s the very FACT that I like to teach that keeps me away from the fight.

I can spend my time and energy on fighting the system, or I can spend that same time and energy on good lesson plans, connecting with parents, reaching out to kids,,, and oh yes, actually TEACHING my classes.

Most of us fight the fight- we just do it quietly and behind the closed doors of our classroom. We dance the little dances when the boss is up and about and roll our eyes when s/he is out of sight and go back to doing what we know is best for the kids.

Does that makes me spineless? I think it keeps me in the classroom doing what I do best— the best way I know how to do it.

By OldSchool

May 17, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

Ouch, I’m feeling a bit bruised from some of the reactions to my post and evidently to my being a teacher.

Folks, after 33 years I know how and when to play the game. In my lab, I do a grand job and for the most part keep my students engaged and learning. I just put on my “other face” when I go outside my door and run into admins or even colleagues.

The only ganging up on me ever done by parents was to convince me to keep on teaching so their children could take my class with ME teaching it. I am supported by the parents nearly 100%. I’ve never gotten a bad or poor evaluation because I know what they want to see and I show it to them. Then I go back to teaching.

And I do yoga to ease the stress.

By jim d

May 17, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

TOS,

I’ll make a real effort although it may be difficult because others have said parents, not teachers, need to take a stand. I have personally done just that—in the freezing rain—in support of teachers and students, only to be condemed by the very teachers I was standing for because they were told to do so. But thats a blog for another day.

Now y’all blog on.

By JustMe

May 17, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this

So the question is “why don’t teachers rebel when a policy is obviously wrong?”

The answer is simple and clear… and has happened to me recently.

A policy from the pencil pushers in the offices came down for teachers to do a particular thing in the classroom. I felt (and still feel) strongly that this is a horrible idea and would hurt student learning. However, the “system” was determined to push through this policy.

Yes, mini-meetings were held to “discuss” this policy, and teachers were asked to sign ‘attendence’ sheets.

What happened was the ‘higher ups’ held up our signatures and said that we all had agreed to this policy and so it should be enforced.

Being the rebel that I am, I went to the principal and stated my case. The principal was actually in favor of my position. However, when the department chair caught wind of what I had done, guess what?

Immediately, my lesson plans were reviewed with a fine-toothed comb and critiqued. I had to go back and rewrite old lesson plans. I was chastized for not standing immediately outside my door between classes (I was helping a student with a homework question just inside the door). And, I am sure that other things will be coming soon.

So Jim, yes, teachers can stand up to these sorts of things. However, we will pay the price. And, sometimes the price is our job, itself.

Even though the other teachers agreed with me, they would not say a word. The reason is because they were well aware of the possible consequences to them.

A real teachers union in GA would help. I could have contacted them about what is going on and they would have stepped in to protect me. However, unions are illegal in GA.

I am a little shocked that you bring this up AGAIN. Teachers on this blog have explained this to you again and again, but it seems that you just don’t get it.

By jim d

May 17, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

unions are illegal in GA?

No argument—just show me the law.

By Jeff

May 17, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

jim:

not unions in general, TEACHER’S unions.

By JustMe

May 17, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

jim:

I don’t know the specific law number, but the law states that any person employed by the State cannot form a union. Teachers in GA are considered State employees and so teachers in GA cannot form unions.

By wwww

May 17, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

It really doesn’t matter if unions are illegal or not. The fact is the “unions” we do have are largely ineffective for the average teacher. If they were effective at all, I doubt NCLB would’ve passed, and we wouldn’t be tied to the CRCT, EOCTs and GHSGT. Asking us to rely on these unions for “protection” is laughable.

If you are so adamant about changes in education, why don’t YOU get a teaching job and stage your own revolt? I would like to see the results.

By 4th year in Hell

May 17, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

Very interesting topic today, here’s my take on the situation: 1. Economics have alot to do with the quality of schools. If every school was given the same amount of money, then all students could have a chance of an equal opportunity. 2. Legally change the laws regarding child neglect. If a student is showing up to school without supplies, that should be neglect. If a student is showing up late more than once a week, that should be neglect. Parents need to be held more accountable for their children. 3. The Anti-prenancy shot should be required for all girls entering middle school through high school…..we need to control babies having babies. 4. Require a course on motivation, manners and discipline. Where will we get people to teach these classes? How about having teaching as a requirement of your final year in your enlistment in the armed forces? This would create jobs for returning vets. 5. Allow students to decide, for themselves, at age 14, if they want to be in school or not. Children are more worldly than they used to be and expect to be treated with respect without giving it. This suggestion is kind of on par with the old addage”you can bring a horse to water but you can’t make him drink”. If a student refuses to do work, doesn’t want to be there, then move them on….

I understand that these ideas may be controversial, but public education is falling. Our government is more worried about desert and oil than it’s own future.

By JustMe

May 17, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this

Also, it is my understanding that the GA State law makes us a “right to work” State. This basically means that any unions have no real power. Yes, unions can be formed in GA, but the leverage that unions would normally use is undermined by the State law.

This helps to explain why unions are not eager to form in GA.

By hs sped

May 17, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this

Hi jim: I fall back on my passive-aggressive abilities when I start feeling angry. I seldom feel helpless-perhaps that comes after the anger? I call in sick and then I have a wonderful, stressfree, guiltfree, day at home! Meanwhile, like one of the other bloggers wrote, I make nice and then teach the way I KNOW works for my students. I even talk about God sometimes!

By hs sped

May 17, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this

Hi jim: I fall back on my passive-aggressive abilities when I start feeling angry. I seldom feel helpless-perhaps that comes after the anger? I call in sick and then I have a wonderful, stressfree, guiltfree, day at home! Meanwhile, like one of the other bloggers wrote, I make nice and then teach the way I KNOW works for my students. I even talk about God sometimes!

By decaturparent

May 17, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

I’m a labor lawyer, so I’ll explain what right to work states are. In a right to work state, no employee can be required to join a union and/or pay union dues as a condition of employment.

Unions can exist in Georgia (except in state government), however, no one has to join the union to keep his or her job.

A little less than half of the states are right to work states. Virtually all of the states in the southeast are right to work states.

Right to work status does slightly weaken the strength of unions as a general matter. Studies have shown a slight decrease in union membership in right to work states.

In a right to work state, not many employees are going to join a union that appears to be ineffective. An employer can capitalize on the situation by making the union’s job as difficult as is legally possible. The more difficult the union’s job, the less effective they seem, then the fewer employees join… then they become even less effective and so on. It becomes a bit of a vortex.

However, unions who are well supported in some companies have a great deal of power. In others they have virtually no power because only a handful of employees decide to join the union.

It all depends on the situation with the given employer.

By JustMe

May 17, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

Thank you decaturparent!!!! I hope that jim d read your posting so he will stop with the ‘teacher union’ crap.

By Dekalb Educator

May 17, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

(I tried to post earlier but it was erased) Now that I am catching up on the responses..I just became a little angered over this statement by Jim D. **Jeff,

point is only if they fight alone Why is that so difficult for you to grasp?

** It seems that you miss the point too. I may be wrong, but it is much more difficult for others to grasp UNLESS they too work in that school building. It isnt just about ‘today’..but also about your future the profession. You will need recommendations (its electronic now so you can NOT see what has been checked off for you) by your adminstrator. I have seen it happen all too many times. You anger that adminstrator..make them feel as if you have ‘questioned’ their authority..etc and you will have problems.

It is already very difficult to work in a lot of these school environments (one like mine) then have an adminstrator riding your tail for whatever reason they feel? I PROMISE YOU..I am one of those that is being ‘messed’ with. I am on my way out (didnt renew my contract) and TRUST ME..I am aware of what is going on. I just got air in my room yesterday…(how long has it been hot?..and how many other classes didnt have it??..HMMM) I returned something to another teacher and I was told I was out of my room for 10 mins (NOT) I have had things STOLEN from my desk drawer..evidence was given..was it EVER addressed?

So much goes on that tears away at your spirit..that you become humble for the wrong reasons. We have enough stress as it is to have to deal with the wrath of some angry adminstrator that needs their ego stroked 24/7.

By meme

May 17, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this

I wanted to give my opinion, but I am just a spineless, gutless jellyfish.

By DM

May 17, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

This topic needs to be the discussion for several days of blogging. Much needs to be clarified and discussed. For example, GAE calls itself an union and PAGE specifically denies it is a union because they don’t in collective bargaining. Having come from a bargaining state, and been a long time teacher in Ga., I know that collective bargaining would go a long way in solving many of the problems.

By jim d

May 17, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

TO ALL, You’ve been great today.

Now that I’ve thoroughly ticked a good portion of the bloggers off. Let me explain how poorly y’all are informed about the laws pertaining to your occupation in Ga., and yes even our resident Labor Lawyer seems to have missed the boat on this one.

There is a paper, “STRIKE!!! A Teacher’s Legal Dilemma” by Robert Lane, JD Candidate , University of Georgia School of Law that pretty well sums up what the law in Ga. is. You can read it at

http://www.educationlawconsortium.org/forum/2006/papers/Lane2006_1.pdf

Basically what it states is that teachers do have a right to join a union in Ga., that all citizens have the right to join a labor union if they choose because of their right to freedom of association guaranteed by the federal constitution and federal precedent.

However, In Georgia it is against the law for a state agency to negotiate with an employee’s representative. This effectively kills any union power for filing a grievance or for any type of collective bargaining.

While most states have recognized unions they still rightfully prohibit Gov. Employees from striking since it is against the public interest to allow the civil bureaucracy to hold the state and citizens hostage at the bargaining table.

But Georgia’s archaic laws have made it the only state that refuses to negotiate with unions. In Georgia, the right to join a labor union is as far as the federal rights for public employees extend. Georgia has been very careful to ensure that joining a labor union is as far as that right extends as exemplified by the very first section of Title 45 of the Georgia Code which prohibits a “strike” which is defined as, “…the failure to report for duty, the willful absence from one’s position, the stoppage or deliberate slowing of work…for the purpose of inducing, influencing, or coercing a change in the conditions, compensation, rights, privileges, or obligations of public employment.” So basically folks, should you lay out of work and aren’t on your deathbed you may be in violation of the letter of this law.

If you truly want change in Georgia I would suggest 1st you read the linked paper, understand what you are really up against, then lobby for changes in current law.

Are you aware that? Under Georgia law, a government employee who engages in a strike or other prohibited work stoppage, “…shall be deemed to have terminated his or her employment; shall forfeit his or her civil service status, job rights, seniority, and emoluments…and subsequent to the violation shall not be eligible for appointment or reappointment or reemployment in public employment for a period of three years.”

Let me also explain that I have taken great caution to not incite anyone on this blog to strike. Do you know why? Well, let me tell you. It would be in violation of Ga. Labor laws! That’s right folks should I tell y’all to strike, whether you do or not, I could be fined and / or imprisoned for simply exercising my first amendment rights.

And I really loved the closing on this document that reads as follows:

“In closing, the most important thing for the public to realize is the benefits that society could reap by allowing teacher unions to flourish. These unions could provide the basis for a more enhanced reform program by allowing educators to communicate to school administrators which reforms were worthwhile while discontinuing the reforms that were not. Also, teacher unions would help retain more qualified personnel by increasing the amount of compensation that educator’s would receive. As in the private sector, increased salaries in the private sector help retain better and more qualified personnel.” 42 “Therefore, states should attempt to model their statutory schemes and labor relation laws based on the examples of states like Florida and Massachusetts and guarantee equal rights to all of their state citizens while still protecting the public from unnecessary civil service disruptions. After all, it is not fair to blame teachers and other public employees for the current system while refusing to grant them any meaningful say in how that system is formed and operated.”

Now lets stop pointing fingers and work together for positive change because it is only through a cooperative effort of parents, teachers and schools that we can accomplish these changes.

By DM

May 17, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this

jimd Unfortunately, the water gets muddied again. The first post after mine discusses STRIKES. Strikes are not what unions are about, only a tactic that may or may not be used in the pursuit of particular goals. Even in NY where the Taylor Law is the toughest anti-strike law in the country, unions do well. Why? Teachers understand the need for, and benefits of, collective action to improve education. Yes, the laws need to be changed. Having a better understanding of union and collective bargaining are necessary for that process to begin.

By JustMe

May 17, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

jim d-

You are too funny. You basically support what all of us have been telling you…..

Teacher unions do not exist and/or cannot be helpful and/or are not allowed in GA. What is the bloody difference as to the details? The bottom line is that the GA law makes unions for teachers in GA ineffective, period!

In your own “paper” that you link to, it states that teachers cannot ‘strike’ or all plan to ‘call in sick’ or whatever you call it because we will lose our jobs.

It is very telling about you that you refuse to believe a labor lawyer yet you chose to believe some paper posted on the net (like everything you find on the net is true)!

The only point that I agree with you is that we all can work to change the law in GA. But, with republicans now controlling GA politics I simply do not have much hope of that….

By jim d

May 17, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

The bloody difference?

The propogation of a lie! If repeated often enough it soon takes on the appearance of truth and I just have a problem with that.

By JustMe

May 17, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

So jim, my dear. Do those “details” that I refer to change anything? …especially when dealing with the issue at hand?

The answer is NO!

You love to argue some very small very irrelavent point. You love to search on the internet to find some link to support your position, even when others are telling you that you are wrong, or misguided, or whatever.

You are just exasperating. And, I am sure this isn’t the first time you have been told this.

The basic points that everyone has been posting to your stupid blog remain the same. But you just don’t get it.

There are no unions for teachers in GA. Teachers are considered State employees and so we cannot do what other union members can do, even if we did join a real union. GA is a ‘right to work’ State and this makes unions basically ineffective, anyway.

However, you want to take an offensive (in many ways) position of blaming teachers? Too funny.

By JimDisRIGHT!!!

May 17, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

I can conclude only one thing from a teacher’s perspective. Jim D is RIGHT!

If you are a teacher who has posted about administrative harassment, micromanged policy, lack of support, or any derivative of the above, I have a question: Are you a member of GAE and/or PAGE?

If so, then you have gotten exactly what you deserve, because you have given your money to two organizations that cannot help BUT to “look the other way” when it comes being treated with the respect you deserve as an educator.

If you CLAIM to want respect as a classroom teacher, then why haven’t you put your money where your mouth is and join MACE…the ONLY teachers’ organization that consistently advocates for teachers, advocates for the “good teaching conditions that lead to good learning conditions” and advocates for you as a professional?

Maybe you joined GAE or PAGE on the advice of your college of ed. or in a new teacher orientation, or at the behest of a principal as you started your career.

You didn’t see MACE invited to any of these forums did you? WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU?! A school system, and the administrators in that system, who have a vested interest in being able to weld power and control over you (beause they aren’t going to tell the voters that it’s THEIR child who is not doing what he needs to do, not the TEACHER’S child) tells you to join PAGE and/or GAE, and like a spineless, clueless, lapdog, you heel at their command.

Not that MACE will make life perfect; but the fact that you join GAE and/or PAGE speaks VOLUMES about the herd like mentality of teachers, mooing like a bunch of cattle being led to slaughter, then complaining to JimD “Waaaah, there’s nothing we can do”

There might not be a LOT teachers can do about certain things, but teachers in general not only don’t come close to what the COULD do, they actually are willing to join organizations that help perpetuate their misery, often out of the sheer total ignorance that they aren’t even “teachers’ organizations” but by and large, and run by administrators.

And then you get mad at JimD? You must be kidding…get mad at yourself, then either A) get a backbone or B) join an organization like MACE that will help facilitate the growth of one!

By jim d

May 17, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

just me, don’t you find it just a little bit emarassing being consistantly wrong?

By CRH

May 17, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

Instead of striking, why don’t all teachers just quit and start a new career. With the already massive shortage of qualified teachers, maybe if more leave the admin & politicians will have to decide how they can best get teachers to come back. BTW…I quit and it was the best damn decision I EVER made!!! I Wouldn’t go back to teaching even IF they could match my new salary :-)

By SET

May 17, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this

I was a teacher once, a full time sub for a semester at an suburban school district doing all subjects 8 to 12. Other relatives were career teachers at secondary and college level. A cousin is in Los Angeles Unified now. I left when the Bar results came through and started my law career.

I think I was rather tough on the students. The funny thing is that the more I held the line in the classroom the more in demand I became as a sub. The teachers started requesting me by name. And I started getting multi-day assignments.

I saw that there was a clear line between the college bound and the jail bound students with some of those in the middle potentials for each side or just staying in school because thier friends were there. Some of the losers were the most interesting - the clearly college-bound didn’t need a lot of help.

Now I think it was my interest in fighting to save the losers from themselves that led me into this career.

I couldn’t be a public school teacher. I believe the agenda of the public schools isn’t education. I do more to educate some people now than the schools do.

People who stay in the urban public secondary schools now aren’t there to really teach anyway. I could be wrong - but it’s just my feeling about it. They’re just jail guards without the higher pay and benefits.

By GoodNewsForTeachers

May 17, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

This happened to a certain extent in Clayton. HUGE teacher turnover, due to pay and lack of administrative support for teachers, combined with the election of Norreese Haynes (to the school board to make sure these issues aren’t “swept under the rug”) and now there’s a proposal before the board for a Teacher’s Bill of Rights as well as a talks of a comprehensive discipline plan.

In this case, teachers “stood up” by voting with their feet…and change is a long slow process (a LOT of foot dragging on these issues until Mr. Haynes joined the board)

But it shows how teachers can slowly effect some change. When teachers as a whole learn to advocate for themselves, more changes will come.

Until then, not individually but collectively teachers get what they deserve

By OldSchool

May 17, 2007 5:09 PM | Link to this

Many of the teachers I’ve talked to joined either GAE or PAGE for one reason only: liability insurance. And yes I know they could get that privately. It’s just easy to go payroll deduction and at least you can talk to a lawyer if you need one.

As I have said many times, I went into teaching with my eyes wide open. I could no more go on strike than I could juggle full grown elephants.

It’s the sly insidious ways some admins have of letting you know just where you stand that make life miserable. And believe me, the good ol’ boy network is a powerful force in a small town. But in my own classroom, I can shut that out and go about the business of challenging and teaching my students. I understand all too well the politics that come into play outside my door but in my own classroom we are supportive of each other and seek answers together.

I’m smart enough to play the game and jump through the hoops when I need to. Then I’m left alone and in my classroom, real learning and interactive teaching takes place. I don’t reach every kid but I try.

At the end of the day, I leave it behind and go home to a loving husband and a happy home. I am actually very proud of myself and what I do for a living. I can’t imagine doing anything else.

I speak only for me but I dare say there are myriad others with similar outlooks. We may gripe but that’s okay. Life isn’t fair but you get along much more happily if you learn how to play the game.

By JimDisRIGHT!!

May 17, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

“Many of the teachers I’ve talked to joined either GAE or PAGE for one reason only: liability insurance”

This only illustrates how teachers in Georgia are willing to be pastys. You don’t NEED the liability insurance. It’s a total scam. You’re protected by sovereign immunity as a teacher, and the areas you AREN’T protected in are not covered by the liability insurance. In that case you need a lawyer and someone with guts to ADVOCATE for you. Good luck with GAE and PAGE on that one.

So teachers give their money to make organizations STRONGER, that have a vested interest in making teacher’s rights WEAKER.

And then teachers whine about JimD? Amazing

By iron maiden

May 17, 2007 5:35 PM | Link to this

Talk about voting with your feet, that makes minimal impact, except, maybe as a nervous breakdown preventative. I have been so disgusted with the policies that I have been forced to follow this year that I turned in my resignation last week. Yup, I was number 13 in a special ed department of 24. Do you think any administrator has been concerned, or even curious? We have become like used lawn implements. Put out for the trash, with any new model as a replacement. NCLB has reduced us all to numbers. And advanced technologies has made us compete with machines. Think it’s called “Dehumanization” or “Stepford Teachers”. But honestly, Bridget, you should ask all the departing teachers for their reasons. Surely somebody might like to know.

By B. Killibrew

May 17, 2007 5:44 PM | Link to this

jim d, you want to know why? Well…

By Janine

May 17, 2007 5:45 PM | Link to this

Just an aside…..I believe I have read that the states that have actual Teacher Unions, where reps actually negotiate for salaries, curriculum, etc. are the states with the best SAT scores and fewer so-called “failing” schools.

By catlady

May 17, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this

I have seen first-hand the s*$t that happens to teachers who disagree, point out errors, etc. I don’t mind bucking the system, but many of my fellow teachers have abandoned me in the past when it came put up or shut up time, so now I comfort myself with the thought that, when it comes down to it, I CAN leave and retire. Some of us are bad to talk big, but we truly won’t back up someone else who speaks out, much less say something ourselves. If you have never worked in a school you don’t know how miserable your life can be made (more than it might be already) once you are singled out. Kinda like the POWs in WW2.

Our county polled teachers to find out their dissatisfactions, but because of the way the survey was carried out, administrators could figure out who said what and so NO ONE was willing to put down the true problems. And so, it appears that everyone is happy! Instead of that one grade level has spent its lunchtime brainstorming ways to be disabled to get away from the situation. Now, that is sad.

Jim is right that we should stand up and speak up and demand to be treated like the professionals we are. But instead we cave in to the fear, and we are stimied by our love of the good parts of what we do. We’ve allowed ourselves to be browbeaten and disparaged by so many that we have discounted ourselves as agents of change.

By Lee

May 17, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this

Everyone on this blog is forgetting one thing - the public education system is a government bureaucracy and as such, it’s sole purpose is to perpetuate it’s existence. In this system, students AND teachers are merely necessary nuisances.

The only ones who can really facilitate change in this system is the taxpaying electorate, who unfortunately, is too distracted to really give a damn.

Take a good look at your employment contract, school policies, Professional Standards Board policies, accredidation policies, et al. They exist to perpetuate and protect the system.

It’s been my experience that the most powerful person is the president of the athletic booster club. He’s about the only one who can get 50-75 people to flood a school board meeting and get them do anything they didn’t already want to do.

By Janine

May 17, 2007 5:57 PM | Link to this

Jimd…You provided a great topic. My colleagues and I have often bemoaned the fact that we seem to be a herd of sheep….but at the same time, we know that’s all most of us will ever be. Another poster pointed out that all of his/her energy is directed toward teaching her students and there is none left over for fighting the system.

Other posters mentioned, and rightfully so, that they need their jobs and “blackballing” is prevalent in education…

Still others mentioned that they chose the profession with their eyes “wide open” ,….they knew what they were getting into…..

By Lee

May 17, 2007 6:06 PM | Link to this

One more thing, it’s easy for an outsider like me to stand on the sidelines and say that [fill in blank] should stand up for themselves and do this or do that. However, when you’re depending on that paycheck to put food on the table and pay the mortgage, not too many would be willing to risk their livelihood just to prove a point. The age-old adage Choose your battles wisely comes to mind.

By thomas

May 17, 2007 6:20 PM | Link to this

I really don’t need to add this, but I will put my two cents in.

Teachers do not stand up because, as a whole, we are lonewolves. Every teacher stands alone. We do not have a UNION in Georgia, unlike many northern or West Coast states. With a UNION you have a collective bargaining agreement. You have a set list of rules and expectations for treatment and prescribed remedies for breach of the contract. If you are abused, the local UNION will give you some sort of representation.

The professional organizations (GAE/PAGE) give lip service. They give you advice when you have a problem. Although teachers as a whole are weak, the ones in the South and Midwest are notoriously impotent. I have seen grown women wet themselves at the thought of even considering to question the insanity they are put through.

The teacher up north have more backbone because of the union. At least they get duty free lunch up there. Heck, the only people down here getting duty free lunch are the elementary teachers (and they trade that off for only 40 mins of planning- if they get that).

By iron maiden

May 17, 2007 6:55 PM | Link to this

Having taught high school in both Texas and Alabama, I must say that Georgia gets first prize for treating teachers like chattel by a wide margin.

By JustMe

May 18, 2007 8:17 AM | Link to this

jim d-

Don’t you get tired of being wrong all of the time? You can post under other names and pretend to support yourself, but it doesn’t make you right.

For the record, I am not a PAGE or GAE member. I joined the only option that has ‘somewhat’ of a backbone and that is MACE.

Also for the record, I am not a career teacher. I retired from a corporate job and got into teaching as a way to help others (students). I don’t necessarily need the money - although the extra change is nice.

The frustration is the other crap that goes along with teaching. The students that I teach score high on all standardized test. The school where I teach has always made AYP. Yet, the pencil pushers are constantly finding ways to screw up the learning process inside my classroom. And, the politicans in GA completely don’t understand the complex issues surrounding education. And, it is obvious from this blog that others outside of education don’t understand these issues either.

If I were to pinpoint one thing to change, it would be this…. There are ‘bad’ teachers that need help (just as there are ‘bad’ people in all professions). Pencil pushers are reluctant for some reason to single out those ‘bad’ teachers and help them improve. Instead, they make blanket policy decisions that impact all teachers - even the ‘good’ ones. Thus, those policies screw with the ‘good’ ones. So eventually, those policies not only push out the ‘bad’ teachers but also the ‘good’ ones.

They need to grow a back bone, go directly to the ‘bad’ teacher and find ways to help that teacher improve. Sounds simple, doesn’t it?

By high school teacher

May 18, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this

jimd, why don’t you give teaching a try?

By Curious

May 18, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

Since when does the person posting the blog topic jump in and argue non-stop? I think that should be a neutral position and in this case JimD should be allowing people to debate without his 2 cents being thrown in about everything. Who decided to let him do this anyway?

By Curious

May 18, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

To B. Killibrew-I’m not sure who to feel sorry for…you becasue your mother must have been terrible to you for you to have such middle eastern views of women or your mother who tried to raise a person who’d respect women but doesn’t. Your comments are ridiculous. I didn’t plan to vote for Hillary but I just changed my mind and I hope others have too.

By wwww

May 18, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

HST: I asked that same question yesterday and it was ignored. Big surprise, right?

By Ernest

May 18, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this

JimD, excellent topic! I’ve been away a few days blogging on a DeKalb site about some of their recent decisions. There is a LOT of anger out there these days :).

To your topic, I see teachers being forced to become ‘robots’ because we (taxpayers) have allowed our legislators to create laws that essentially micromanages how instruction should be delivered. Have you taken a look at some of the Performance Standards documents? Makes you wonder if the ‘live’ teacher will be made obsolete in a few years.

By catlady

May 21, 2007 6:20 PM | Link to this

jim d, I have thought a lot about this since you posted it, and here is another thought: teachers, by definition, are people who have bought into the education system. We expect that our students will (even if they gripe) follow our directions. We are their “superiors”. And when our “superiors” come up with lame or stupid or counterproductive ideas, we may gripe, but because they are our “superiors”, we give them the authority like we expect it and we do what we expect our students to do.

By jim d

May 22, 2007 8:19 AM | Link to this

Cat,

While I understand the just following orders argument you have presented, Please take a moment or two to read the linked manifesto (THE STUDENT AND SOCIETY) by Jerry Farber (an educator)

http://www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0303critic/030301studentasnigger.html

Note that I don’t necessarily agree with everything he’s written—However he does bring up some valid points.

By Lisa B.

May 22, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

Jim D., that was quite an article. I, too, agree with some of the author’s points. However, because we do mandate education for all, I don’t know how to change it. Obviously, education could be much better for students as well as for teachers. But how?