Get Schooled

By jim d

May 14, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

I’m up for it—anyone have a suggestion for a blog topic since I have such strong opinions on just about any educational issue?

By Jeff

May 14, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

jim:

I think I’m going to do a security one, specifically mentioning the TN incident from the weekend as well as the Isreali guy’s comments just after VT about having student/faculty/staff first response action teams…

By JustMe

May 14, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

Here’s a blog topic that will get their (jim d and SET) knickers in a twist…….

The evils of vouchers! Or, how a voucher program will ruin (further) our public and private education system.

By V for Vendetta

May 14, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

How about discipline? I don’t think I talk about that enough :-)

By Jeff

May 14, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this

speaking of SET, haven’t seen him in a while…

By Lisa B.

May 14, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

The current law states that children who fail to pass the CRCT in grades 3, 5 and 8 must be retained. I rarely see that happen in my school system. In a neighboring system the kids who don’t pass are retained no matter what parents, teachers or a committee say. We’ve probably beaten the retention horse to death, but it’s that time again. I think that if one system is going to follow the law and retain everyone who fails, all the systems should. If some systems are going to ignore the law and send children forward without passing the CRCT, no systems should hold the kids back who fail. We have no continuity in this state from one school system to the next, though we are all subject to the same laws.

By JustMe

May 14, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this

Lisa B.

It isn’t that some systems ignore the law, but rather some systems liberally apply the exceptions to the law. The law does have exceptions written into it. Those expections were intended to be for ‘hard ship’ cases and were only intended to be rarely used.

What has happened in some school systems is that they have “embraced” these exceptions and applied them to every student. This has been done primarily out of fear of law suits or other pressure from ignorant parents. These systems have what I call “administrators without backbone.”

By the way, what is your school system? Also, what is the neighboring system that you speak of? I think that I want to change schools to teach in a system like that. It sounds like you have “good” administrators there. Teaching in a system that passes all students regardless if they fail the CRCT or not is fruitless.

By Jeff

May 14, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this

Lisa:

I know your system. PLEASE tell me the “good” system you speak of is the one that EVERYBODY in the area wants to work for (and the one that my fiancee starts working in their HS this fall!)

By Jeff

May 14, 2007 1:35 PM | Link to this

While doing research for the violence article I’m writing, guess what I found out y’all??

Back in 2001, a kid got a loaded revolver into the middle school I JUST LEFT!!!!

By mmm

May 14, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this

Another topic:

I spent 3 hours Friday talking with a Federal DOE Policy person in the area of English Language Learners.

She said that it is doubtful that the NCLB reauthorization will relax the standards that require LEP kids to pass at the same rates as those who speak English. She told us that La Rasa is strongly against making changes because it will weaken the spotlight that NCLB has focused in this area. I can understand this as a political position, but the effect seems to be a growing backlash that sets unrealistic goals that punish an entire school—-which then breeds resentment that makes others wish these kids would disappear. How can we do the right things by these kids for the right reasons? Or must we only hope for doing the right things for the wrong reason? Or are we going to do the wrong thing (refuse to identify who they are) for the wrong reason(so there won’t be enough labeled LEP to count against the school).

By dragonlaldy

May 14, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this

Lisa B: I was talking to a math teacher/administrator today who said that in just another year kids who fail the math portion of the CRCT will not be able to go to high school because there won’t be a math class they can take.

I’m in English and don’t understand the new math curriculum, but according to her, with these new changes, there won’t be anything in high school simple enough for them to take. So they will have to stay in middle school until they pass the math. Regardless of the exceptions.

Should be interesting to watch.

Maybe some math teachers want to chime in here.

By Jeff

May 14, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

dragonlady:

If I’m not mistaken, one of the primary prerequisites for the new HS math classes - even the “Core” series - is successful completion of the 8th grade CRCT. Therefore, I do believe you are correct!

By jim d

May 14, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

AH ha!!

A mexican plot for sure!

By mmm

May 14, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this

Jim d.

Do you have a real job?

By Bridget Gutierrez

May 14, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

Hey, y’all. Don’t let all these great ideas go to waste! Write up your thoughts in the form of a blog entry (four or five paragraphs usually does the trick) and send it to me in an e-mail.

P.S. jim d’s already one step ahead of you. Now you can’t let him have the last word, can you?

By Jeff

May 14, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

Bridget:

I’ll have my violence article to you within a couple of days. Just completed my research for it (well, getting certain numbers anyway). Hopefully I’ll have time to finalize the writing tonight!

By Bridget Gutierrez

May 14, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this

Great, Jeff! I’m looking forward to reading it.

By Lisa B.

May 14, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

Dragonlady,

It makes sense for students to stay put in middle school when or if there is no math class for them to take in high school. I wonder if I’ll really see that happen! If the changes occur as planned, we will really see some improvement in education. Wouldn’t that be great?

By mmm

May 14, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this

I have at least 3 ideas, but also a bunch of things coming to a head this week.

The ell one above.

Are start-up charters really supposed to behave like non-profits? (I’m going to a 2 day conference for non-profits later this week. It will be interesting to see what is applicable and what isn’t.)

Also, governance board woes.

MMM

By jim d

May 14, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

mmm,

Do I have a real job? Not really, I own the company.

Bridget,

LOL, you know just me will never let me have the last word.

By mmm

May 14, 2007 5:22 PM | Link to this

Jim d

That’s what I thought.

By SET

May 14, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this

What am I? An institution now??

My concerns for the Summer? Jobs for the High School kids, decent Summer School programs for the students that want it or need it (or whose parents have to work and need the supervision of the kids…)

Honest testing reports so that the parents have no illlusions of what their children are becoming. I’d love to have the report sheets programmed to print out “YOUR CHILD IS ILLITERATE” in block letters so we can get it through the parents skills when they have a problem..

I’ve just attended Continuing Education classes where new criminal procedure involving children was discussed. We are going to have more lifetime registration for children as sex offenders due to a first instance of sexual acting out… These continued draconian laws are just wrong. They throw too wide a net and catch too many people. Each year more discretion is being removed from the judges.

Brave New World. The smart survive and the average people are just doomed, it seems.

By SET

May 14, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this

parent’s “skulls” not skills, sorry about the typo.

By catlady

May 14, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this

SET—glad to see you. You are an important fixture on this blog.

The problem with your report that begins “Your child is illiterate” is that many of the parents cannot/won’t read it and would not understand it if they did!

Bridgett, I have sent you my idea re; the new “push” for push-in for special ed and ESOL.

By dragonlady

May 14, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this

Lisa B: The math teacher telling me all this was shaking her head because of the large number of students who, she believes, will never be able to pass 8th grade math.

Additionally, if a student can’t pass the math portion but passes everything else, what then? He stays in the 8th grade having passed all other requirements. So does he take them (English, Social Studies, Science) over again, while he struggles with math? Of course, if he can’t pass the math, he is probably struggling with other subjects too, but not necessarily. I have seen students who could pass the other subjects but fail the math, so this scenario is possible.

I don’t think the powers that be have thought this thing through very well.

By Bridget Gutierrez

May 14, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this

Thanks, catlady. I think that’s a great topic. It’s nice to see all the regulars here coming up with new guest blogs. As you know, we’ve had several guest bloggers in the past and they’ve all done very well at generating lots of comments.

By Lisa B.

May 14, 2007 6:28 PM | Link to this

Dragonlady;

For the most part, I am opposed to retention the way its currently handled in schools. We have kids who failed to thrive in the current “typical” classroom, so we retain them and expect them to thrive next year in the “typical” classroom. It’s insane to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different outcome. Because most schools only offer to put the kids through the same classes again, now with the stigma of failure, retention seems to do more harm than good. We need options other than the black and white choice of retention or promotion. Over the years, I’ve seen some great alternatives, but the programs always die from budget cuts.

Lots of kids excel in some subjects and struggle with others. Few of us excel at everything.

Yes SET, you are an institution on this blog :-)

By Jeff

May 14, 2007 6:34 PM | Link to this

Lisa:

You don’t exactly have to be THAT good in any given subject to pass K-12….

Take me, for example. Yes, I am a good generalist, with particular strengths in Social Studies and (I found out AFTER HS) Math. HOWEVER, I STINK at Chemistry and certain math topics (Calc!!). Even I passed HS Chem, and the Light chapter was the ONLY thing we did in that class that I understood! (Even then, Light, it turns out, behaves more like a physics class than a Chem class…)

By Lisa B.

May 14, 2007 6:40 PM | Link to this

Just Me;

I teach in Southwest Georgia. From what I understand, Dougherty County doesn’t pass children to the next grade level if they fail any part of the CRCT at any grade level. I know of 2nd graders who were retained for failing only the math portion. My unnamed system probably doesn’t retain enough kids due to test scores, but then, most of them miraculously pass when retested in summer school.

By JustMe

May 15, 2007 8:07 AM | Link to this

Lisa B.

It is funny how you can hear very different things about school systems….

My mother retired from Doughtery County and she left because she said there was regular cheating on standardized tests - with administrators encouraging it. She taught in high school and said that those poor kids couldn’t even write a complete sentence or do basic math, and yet they were graduating them….

My sister also taught in Dougherty County (an elementary school) and she said that many of her kids failed the CRCT and yet the administrators passed them on to the next grade any way. She became so frustrated she left and now teaches in Lee County (a neighboring system). She did elaborate about how they manipulate the system to allow the kids to be promoted - take a summer class and retake the CRCT and then promote them (even if they fail a 2nd time) as an exception.

This is not first hand experience, but simply family “war stories” shared during holidays - so take them for whatever it’s worth.

By Jeff

May 15, 2007 8:30 AM | Link to this

JustMe:

Which level does your sister work at in Lee? If you don’t want to say here, please email me @ ajc_jeff@yahoo.com I have some very pressing questions if she is at one school in particular there…

By Lisa B.

May 15, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

Just Me,

I didn’t say the system doesn’t cheat. I said that if kids don’t pass the test, they aren’t promoted. I’ve had friends who were unable to even get their 2nd graders promoted despite passing grades, because they failed the MATH part of the CRCT. Of course, this may vary from school to school. I think many school systems go too far one way and promote everybody, and then later go too far the other way, and refuse to make exceptions.

I’m very happy with Lee County. My 7th grade son has attended school there since Pre-K.

By Lisa B.

May 15, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

Just Me,

About the promotion crieria of a system where I don’t work, I only know what friends and relatives have told me about their experiences. Like you said, these are only “War Stories,” shared by others.